Postwar Studebakers

driver100

sda said:

There is a neat video posted by driver100 about the '64 Avanti in Edmunds Members--Cars and Conversations

sda asked me to post over here. It is 10 minutes long but is very interesting. btw I come from Hamilton Ontario Canada which was where many Studebakers were made:

https://youtu.be/AnynfKKwE3Y

uplanderguy

Thanks! I've had three Studebakers and two were built in Hamilton, Ontario--a '64 Daytona Hardtop and a '66 Daytona two-door Sports Sedan. All of my Studebakers are in Australia now. I sure want another one though.

berri

...or a trip down under

imidazol97

I think someone here mentioned that Avanti's are somewhat rare at car shows. I tried to find a picture but I recall a local car show that two summers ago had 5, 6, or 7 Avanti's lined up. Beautiful. I didn't understand the variations among the years, and I still don't. But I seem to recall they were members of an Avanti Club here in Ohio. The club affiliations were listed on the windshield car. The show was an orphan's show so it was very appropriate that the club had made a big effort to support the show held at Young's Dairy rec campus near Springfield (Yellow Springs, home of Antioch University).

berri

I was looking at the April Collectible Automobile magazine and there is an article on Studebaker and Porsche working on a smaller Studebaker entry during the early and mid 50's. Never heard this before. Car was basically Porsche using what Studebaker parts it could, but the styling of the sedan didn't do a whole lot for me at least. The whole idea struck me as a Hudson Jet kind of thing and we know how that turned out. But it was an interesting read nonetheless.

uplanderguy

I haven't seen a Collectible Automobile in a good while. I have seen pics of that "hybrid" sedan and I'm with you on the styling.

There was a later attempt at a car even smaller than the Lark, to be called the "Sparrow". Never happened, obviously.

And yes to the person who posted above, Brooks Stevens did the Larks and Hawks and Raymond Loewy did the Avanti.

sda

I have every Collectible Automobile from the first issue to sometime in the last year or so. I really enjoyed them, carefully keep them stored, but found I rarely go back and look at them. So I'll keep what I have and have let the subscription expire. Interestingly I have not heard from them asking me to renew. I wonder how they survive if they are not being proactive in keeping subscribers or attracting new business. It is a great magazine and do miss receiving it.

explorerx4

@uplanderguy,
Check out the links to the Norwalk Ohio auction.
The collection being auctioned has 250 Studebakers!

uplanderguy

I saw that yesterday. All look like too much "project" for a guy like me, but it could be a fun way to spend a few hours. That's only about an hour-and-a-half from me. I see Yvette VanDerBrink is handling the auction; she's the lady that did the Lambrecht Chevy auction a few years back.

berri

I like some of the Studebakers and really most of the 50/60's independents. But I have to admire the seemingly unique national audience for old Studebakers. They are loyal just like a Ford or Chevy fanatic. That's really kind of cool.

uplanderguy

For the most part, we are a loyal, close-knit bunch. When I got into it, I didn't know a soul in the hobby but I've made some very good friends over the past thirty or so years because of it.

uplanderguy

It'd probably never happen, because we're so spread out, but I think it'd be fun for some of the regulars on various Edmunds forums I frequent to get together some place....you know, to see if the picture in your head matches the one on the person! And just to have a meal or beer someplace. Never happen I know; forums tend to be largely anonymous. We don't have to agree on a lot to have something in common by posting here pretty regularly.

imidazol97

uplanderguy said:

It'd probably never happen, because we're so spread out, but I think it'd be fun for some of the regulars on various Edmunds forums I frequent to get together some place....you know, to see if the picture in your head matches the one on the person!

Long ago several of the folks on the Bonneville forum would get together on a regional group basis. I believe thy tried for a larger get together for those who could and wanted to meet. I don't recall if they went through with it but they were trying to meet in Bonnieville, KY. Perfect!

isellhondas

uplanderguy said:

It'd probably never happen, because we're so spread out, but I think it'd be fun for some of the regulars on various Edmunds forums I frequent to get together some place....you know, to see if the picture in your head matches the one on the person! And just to have a meal or beer someplace. Never happen I know; forums tend to be largely anonymous. We don't have to agree on a lot to have something in common by posting here pretty regularly.

Las Vegas!!! Moderators too if Edmunds allows that!

fintail

If only I wasn't so far from OH/PA, I'd be up for it sometime.

Now who doesn't need this?:

berri

Now that is an odd one. You expect something no lower than a Desoto or maybe Olds for a stretch like that. The Studebaker actually carries the stretch well to me, but then I always liked the longer Commander over the Champion in that era of the car. But Uplander, sda, et. al. - you guys are Studebaker lifers, so I'll default to your opinions

bhill2

Oh hell, they'll stretch anything for airport and hotel duty. I saw a C/D (I think) tongue-in-cheek road test on a stretched Mini (the original one) used in Britain as an airport limo. Recently, stretched SUV have become common; like Ford Excursions and (excuse me(???)) Hummers.

fintail

Yep, anything can be stretched:



Apparently, several of these still exist. A quick google finds a couple of those Studes still around, too.

berri

Yeah, I know they can stretch anything - but often the customer being transported expected a certain level from the hotel or whatever. Of course today it will likely be a converted Econoline shuttle

uplanderguy

Well, you've posted a Studebaker photo I've never seen before! LOL

That's an interesting assortment of cars--besides the "limo", I see a GT Hawk in the corner, a Crosley, and a Henry J or Allstate!

imidazol97

It's seen that maize color limo with the wood racks on top in pictures before. I went out
looking, but instead here's the Studebaker I found.

http://www.cityrevealed.com/pages/articles/apr13/XXXLong.html

uplanderguy

I've actually seen that truck in person, LOL. Been awhile though but it was at one of the international meets.

berri

Ima - that one is truly bizarre

fintail

Looks well done in the pics, but what a use of resources.

uplanderguy

Yeah, not...exactly...what I would've done!

uplanderguy

I like this brochure photo; designed in Palm Springs, in front of a Palm Springs house:

https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/16587171_10212099254622330_3319152883645846937_o.jpg?oh=9942183df5b2afea1cb9b088de1b0859&oe=58FEEC27

fintail

The Avanti is definitely among the best "mid century" design cars, looks right in front of a mid century house.

uplanderguy

I love that pic; I'd like to step into it but I'd be woefully underdressed.

Again, a factory Stude pic without an outside mirror, and I like that look.

Mr_Shiftright

uplanderguy said:

I love that pic; I'd like to step into it but I'd be woefully underdressed.

Again, a factory Stude pic without an outside mirror, and I like that look.

You'd also have to belt down a fair share of martinis.

Mr_Shiftright

explorerx4

I just offered a job at that auction, but it involved removing critters from the cars, so I'm holding out for something better

fintail

There's an article in the latest Hagerty magazine about the Avanti - focusing on post-Studebaker models. Featured car is a 1971 example in gold with Magnum 500 wheels.

uplanderguy

I heard that Hagerty had the Avanti article. I'm not a fan of the post-Studebaker Avantis for a couple styling reasons, but I still do think the Avanti story is utterly amazing. A Studebaker dealer in their hometown went to banks to obtain financing to continue building the Avanti, which Studebaker had just discontinued due to poor sales and in fact all Studebaker manufacturing had left the hometown--and somehow, the guy got financing!

fintail

Yep, the article details the later years, especially 70s-90s. It's a crazy story, coming back to life a few times. Some people had a dream and a love for the car, as I can't imagine most years came close to running in the black.

uplanderguy

I've long-read that for the years the Altmans ran it (through '83), they usually did make money, as there was so much leftover stuff from Studebaker they acquired, although by '83 of course they were sourcing an increasing number of parts from other places.

I've mentioned it before here, but I just don't like the lack of rake and especially the smaller front wheel openings, both of which had to do with the Chevy engine being taller than the Studebaker V8. Nate Altman said in an interview he didn't like seeing some suspension pieces visible from the rear on the original, but I wonder if some of that was just an excuse, LOL. I didn't like some of the AMC-sourced interior pieces of the cars in the mid-seventies and later, either.

I've heard many times that he was a wonderful salesman and guy to work for too. He and his partner, Leo Newman, were Packard dealers for a couple decades, then picked up Edsel, then didn't become Stude dealers 'til '59. Altman had said he never enjoyed the industry as much as his years with Studebaker, as since he was a South Bend dealer he was invited into the office on product decisions and the like.

fintail

I wonder if they also made money from selling parts for older cars. I imagine NOS Avanti parts support was as good as it is for other Stude.

Even with the later cars gaining some heavy-handed changes, the design didn't age poorly. Maybe because it was never really related to any trends when it was new. Some cars, also like the Jag XJS, aged like that.

uplanderguy

They did have parts for the older cars through the years.

My best man got an application from Avanti the first time either of us had visited South Bend, and they moved to Youngstown shortly after and he did work there for I think about three years, a 'jack of all trades' kind of guy.

Even they sold parts for older Avantis at Youngstown, and he remembers Loewy's widow Viola calling there from France for parts.

berri

UP, face it, you and I are probably a minority preferring the Hawk GT to the Avanti. I prefer to look at our preference as a more sophisticated European styling influence appreciation

Mr_Shiftright

No, I'm with UP on that one. I like Avantis only from the door handle back. To my mind, as time goes on, the Hawk looks better and better to the modern eye, and the Avanti looks worse.

I know I've threatened to redesign the Avanti on Photoshop, and one of these days....look for it here and tell me what you think when I do.

uplanderguy

I like the Hawk because it is elegant (the GT, I mean). It's elegant to me in the way that some of the older M-B's were about the same time. Even Studebaker admitted it was older, referring to it as "classic" in advertising.

The Avanti looks newer to me, and doesn't have the frou-frou trim excesses of the time. But I'd still take a Hawk first.

Mr_Shiftright

Bet you've never seen this before:

uplanderguy

Frua Lark.

I have seen them, and glad they never went into production.

One thing that I like about Studebakers was, for the most part (but certainly not always), they avoided the overstyling of Big Three certain cars. Can't be said about this baby!

Mr_Shiftright

Well no worse than the '58 Studebakers really.

fintail

It's got the headlights-too-high syndrome, which to me makes it look like a fish. Also seen on mid 00's Malibu.

uplanderguy

I've seen that very '58 before. I like the hardtops. At least no one can call a Studie 'fat', LOL. I always liked the low beltline, too. Personally only, I think it's not nearly as garish as the mid-priced GM brands of that year.

What I dislike most about '58 Studes is the 'chihuahua'-looking rear lights and fins--even worse are the double fins on the '58 Packard.

That particular '58, in 'Shadowtone Red', is dead-on-authentic, even in the small exterior details.

Mr_Shiftright

Well if it weren't for the soon-to-be Lark, designs like that would have put Studebaker in an even earlier grave.

uplanderguy

Can't disagree, as they went from a $13 million loss to a $28.5 million profit in the next year. Hard to overcome that $43 million loss for '56.

Mr_Shiftright

Really in hindsight of course, we can see that the Independents were doomed starting in 1946. Even Chrysler barely made it out alive.

berri

The irony of Chrysler over those frequent postwar brushes with death was that the company was run for quite awhile by finance and accounting types, yet all so often the crisis emanated from building too much inventory ahead of sales.

uplanderguy

The Lark really was the right product at the right time for Studebaker.

While I prefer the looks of later Larks, I sat in a '60 sedan at a meet a few months ago and I could see why the '59 and '60 sold so well. The interior was much roomier than the exterior would indicate. No other compact offered V8's in '59 and in interior dimensions the Rambler didn't compete.

Obviously, styling is subjective, but those cars were pretty clean-lined for a late '50's product, even when compared to Rambler.