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Postwar Studebakers

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Comments

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,871
    That is pretty amazing detail--enough that I can tell it's a '54 by the vertical bars in the grille. A lot of people did that scallop two-toning, although the factory didn't. Thanks for posting that! I always liked "The Simpsons" although I can't remember when I've last seen it.
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  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Nice car in a fun show B)
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,423
    edited December 2015
    Simpsons has done a job with vehicle renderings - IMCDB has a good collection. Not perfect detail, but enough to tell what the car is. Here's one somewhat suitable for this thread, from a more primitively animated episode way back in the 90s when Homer and Burns went to Cuba. I still remember Mr. Burns: "ah, here's the new Packard we've been hearing so much about!"

    image
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I've actually seen a couple of postwar, maybe 49 bathtub Packard cabs at old car shows. Not the 55/56 models though. I think they were kind of few and far between in those last years.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,871
    The detail on that "Packard" is pretty loosy-goosy, but I could still kind-of tell it's supposed to be a '55 or '56 from the "C" pillar and front fender.

    When I was a kid, there was an olive green '49 Packard around town (I was born in '58 so it was an old car then). I later found out my Studebaker dealer friend (whom I didn't know then) drove it as it was a used car that came back to their dealership at least a couple times. Those 'bathtub' Packards are what I thought Packards were. I was never aware of any Packard newer than that in our town, until I met a kid in high school who was into the '55 and '56's. Although they look chubby to my eyes, and have a too-high beltline, again to my eyes, the '55-56 is certainly an effective facelift of the '51 body and I do truly believe the torsion-level ride beat everything in its class. Sadly, workmanship was not up to the marque and mechanical problems became prevalent and early.
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  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I'll be honest Uplander, I'm a sucker for those mid 50's Packard Caribbean's. Not just the exterior, but the interior and dashboard as well.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    The bathtub Packard Straight 8s were torque monsters.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I could never get into the bathtub Packard, or the next models. Just the 55/56. What can I say, I'm a shallow "looks" kind of guy :)
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well they'd be a lot less trouble, and in your spare time you could knock down houses with it. B)
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    So it's Bulldozer instead of Bathtub !
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,871
    edited December 2015
    My hometown dealer (Studes since '26; Packards '41-50 and '55 on) sold this '56 Caribbean new; serial 5699-1258, eighteen cars from the last convertible:

    http://www.packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/dealer/pics/php6uD4xP.jpg

    Dr. Arby Bailey traded in a '55 Thunderbird for it. The Caribbean wouldn't go into reverse at the Cleveland Clinic when fairly new and my dealer friend and his lead mechanic had to go over at night and tow it home and drive the Doc home. Ironically, earlier, the car was shipped to Cleveland on a boat and they picked it up in Cleveland for the doctor--it was sitting in Packard's inventory in Detroit. The mechanic still says, "I got my first taste of frog legs on that trip to Cleveland". LOL

    If I could find a reasonably-priced Ultramatic specialist in my town, and get one with bulletproof lifters (LOL), I could enjoy a '56 Scottish Heather (lightish red) and white Four Hundred Hardtop.

    I always used to gently kid my high school friend who liked the V8 Packards, about how "lighter" was spelled "Liter" on the instrument panel switch of those cars. ;)
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  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342

    The bathtub Packard Straight 8s were torque monsters.

    Yes they were and so were the bathtub Nashes.

    I knew a guy who had a 51 Nash and he could slow almost to a complete stop in third gear, step on the gas and the Nash would pick up speed like it had an automatic.



  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,423
    I saw this at a small town car show last year. It appear to be an unrestored car - it was far from mint when looking up close, but it had a uniform patina that suggested age and maintenance. It's an eye-catcher for sure:

    image
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,871
    Funny, in 1998 I saw the car sold in my hometown in Kernersville, NC, and at that point it was on Packard wire wheels and had had a restoration in the late '70's. It was for sale at the Amelia Island (FL) auction in 2004 but I don't think it sold there. There were only 276 '56 Caribbean convertibles. This car above is the same color combo as the one sold by my hometown dealer, although I believe this was the most popular tri-tone. Still, there is a much-better-than-1-in 276-chance that it's the same car.
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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Never like the "lunge-forward" look on any car I can think of. I think it's an awkward styling feature.


  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Notice how the Buick stylists broke up the forward slant with a V.


  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,871
    edited December 2015
    I don't like how the first Riv had inboard headlights and the corners remind me of Chinese lanterns. That Graham is hideous (MHO only) as there's too much trim. I think the taillights of the Riv are uninspired and I despise fake scoops. The '65, so similar yet so cleaned up, is so much nicer IMHO. All the '63-65's had beautiful interiors though.
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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,423
    That Caribbean was in coastal WA - that'd be a heck of a coincidence if it was the same car.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I agree. The 65 Riv is a beautiful car.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,871
    edited December 2015
    That Caribbean was in coastal WA - that'd be a heck of a coincidence if it was the same car.

    I guess I only mean that unlike a stock-appearing Big Three most anything, the chances are way-better, with the low original production and the weeding-out of sixty years time since, plus add in that the owner in NC had it for sale in at least one large national hoidy-toidy auction, stranger things have happened. ;)

    The way I even found out the car sold in my hometown existed was pretty serendipitous. I saw the sale-day photos of the car, as the one I posted above, and heard about the car and the original owner, for years, as in our small hometown, selling a $6,000 car in 1956 was a big deal for my dealer friend. I was at Hershey, the enormous show one year, and got talking to a couple brothers from Youngstown, OH (about 25 or 30 miles away from my hometown) who were known as Packard experts nationally, and on their board of cars for sale I saw a pic of a '56 Caribbean. I mentioned the one sold in my hometown to Dr. Bailey. The one brother said, "Wait a minute...that sounds familiar...can I have your address and I'll confirm when we get home?". He did, and I heard from him--he had just sold the car to the guy from NC but the plaque on the dash said "Custom Made for A.L. Bailey, M.D.", plus the original paperwork in the glovebox confirmed the serial number and selling dealer....my friend. He sent me photocopies of both. My dealer-friend's signature was even the same all those years earlier. So you never know.

    The Youngstown brothers had bought the car for $500 in 1975 in Orangeville, OH, maybe ten or twelve miles from my hometown of Greenville, PA, and treated it to a good restoration. So all those years it hadn't been very far away; my dealer friend and I never knew it. My friend remembered the Doc trading it on a new Cadillac a few years after purchase.
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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,871
    edited December 2015
    I found the RM/Sotheby's auction listing for the Caribbean sold in my hometown, here:

    http://www.rmsothebys.com/am04/vintage-motor-cars-at-amelia-island/lots/1956-packard-caribbean-convertible/16468

    My dealer friend and I have both chuckled at the reference to him being an "East coast dealer"--he was in a town of about 9,000 population then, ten or twelve miles east of the Ohio border. ;)
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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,871
    This Packard talk has reminded me that the Akron-area Packard Club has disbanded. A few of the members have come over to our regional Studebaker club, but I wonder if that may be our fate in ten or fifteen years. We did get 61 people at our Christmas banquet a couple weeks back. I think we have baby-boomers into Studes simply because they built into the sixties; Packard followers, probably less-so.
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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    It's been my experience that most Packard collectors are quite along in years. There's been quite a push in the various classic car magazines to "bring a kid to a car show" but I suspect that some marques, like Packard, will end up mostly in museums or large private collections and not be driven very much anymore. Of course, there will be exceptions--the senior AACA Packards will still be shown of course, and some of the brass era cars will be exhibited. But club rallies and picnics and things like that---I don't think so.

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,423
    Here's another pic of the car. I seem to recall it had a cracked window or something. The paint was definitely old and had small issues, there were some trim issues, etc - commensurate with an original car or very old restoration that had been enjoyed on many drives:

    image

    Packard is interesting to analyze. I see them as filling the market position MB has held for the past 40 or so years in the US. Recent downmarket moves keep this parallel alive.

    Here's a pretty and famous postwar Packard:

    image
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I briefly owned a bathtub convertible...wasn't it called a Super 8 or some such. But mine was a mess, and at that time I couldn't afford to restore it, so I flipped it. I remember it had either electric or hydraulic windows, 3 speed manual with overdrive, full leather interior. It could have been a magnificent car for someone.

    At one time, in the 1930s, Studebaker built some very luxurious, high priced cars. Their reputation in the 1930s wasn't like in the 1950s & 60s, when they were more the underdog.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,423
    The yellow car is a 1948 "Custom Eight Victoria". It's Doc Brown's 1955 car in 'Back to the Future', and it's a beauty. I've read it was trouble-free during movie shoots, too.

    The bathtub woodies are also interesting:

    image
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,871
    edited December 2015
    Fifty-two years ago today, the last assembly-line Studebaker automobile was built in the U.S. It is a NOS Studebaker--R1 engine, 4-speed, disc brakes, full instrumentation with tach, 50/50 split front seats...but no radio. It has 28 miles--I know this because I got close enough once to stick my head in and look at the odometer.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/sjb4photos/7143686819

    The car was built to fulfill a customer order for the dealer in Fleetwood, Pennsylvania. Instead, Studebaker saved the car and fulfilled the customer's order by taking a similar car in factory inventory and adding and deleting options.

    The last Avanti was assembled (per the build sheet) on 12/26/63. They weren't built on a regular assembly line. This car is owned by the Crawford Auto-Aviation Museum in Cleveland and here it was photographed in 2014 on the National Mall in Washington D.C. It's an R3 automatic

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/20/automobiles/the-note-in-the-trunk-of-the-last-studebaker-avanti.html?_r=0

    The last U.S.-built Studebaker of all was a blue Diesel one-ton built on 12/27/63.
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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    It would be fun to take a car like that to a show and listen to all the sideline "experts" tell the owner what's not right with it.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,871
    Those bathtub Packard wagons were called the "Station Sedan". Although, generally, the styling is too chubby (tubby?) for me--they're also known as "The Pregnant Elephant"--I've heard they're good cars. The two-door sedan version is sort-of interesting to me, with fastback styling,.
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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,871
    It would be fun to take a car like that to a show and listen to all the sideline "experts" tell the owner what's not right with it.

    I'd bet a fifty that two things that would be heard are "Studebaker used Ford's 289 in these" and "they still build them in Canada".
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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Oh, yeah, along with "look at those bolt heads. This car isn't original".
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    edited December 2015
    Hey, the front end on that Graham would fit right in with some of today's vehicle front ends :D
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    edited December 2015
    Here's something ya don't see every day...
    1956 Studebaker Champion.

    Love the exterior colors, but I'm not too crazy about that olive green looking color on the interior seat/door panel inserts. It just seems a bit clashy.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,871
    edited December 2015
    That is a nice little car; seems a bit steep but on the other hand, if it's solid and reliable.....

    You sure won't win any stoplight races with that little flathead six. But they often won the Mobilgas Economy Run back in those days. ;)

    For some reason, I'm thinking I've seen that car before...not necessarily in an ad, but maybe at a national meet or something. I like that two-tone better than that zany two-toning the Presidents had that year.

    I like how the '56's taillights sort-of resemble a flare.
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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Its....er....an acquired taste. Reminds me of the last Hudsons---kind of tortured styling.
    andre1969 said:

    Here's something ya don't see every day...
    1956 Studebaker Champion.

    Love the exterior colors, but I'm not too crazy about that olive green looking color on the interior seat/door panel inserts. It just seems a bit clashy.

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,871
    edited December 2015
    The last Hudsons and Nashes are absolutely tortured styling IMHO. Nance wanted the Studes to look more mainstream than the '53-55 and that they did, although not to greater sales effect.

    I do like the low beltline on Studes of that era.

    One might think the dealer would've closed the hood for the photos!
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  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    edited December 2015
    The last Hudsons and Nashes were bigger, while the Stude's were smaller and cleaner looking - but none of them really inspired the consumer to pony up. D3 had all brought out new cars for the mid 50's that were also generally nicely styled. Studebaker and Rambler kind of got pushed into niches to survive after that with very weakened cash flows. I thought Romney managed AMC much better than Nance - Packard was a huge mistake for Studebaker on top of perhaps the most militant UAW existing in South Bend. You have to give credit though to Studebaker for surviving into the what, 1965? despite those handicaps. Down the road after that though, I think AMC tried to broaden its product line too much and got overextended. Jeep bought them some time.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,871
    Well said IMHO, berri. The last Studebakers were built in March 1966, although Studebaker had several other divisions that kept them in business after car manufacturing was discontinued. The factory-authorized service and parts operation (SASCO) continued until 1972. After my hometown dealer closed in Dec. '68, the Chrysler-Plymouth-AMC dealer immediately picked up the authorized parts and service dealer franchise.

    The '57 and '58 Scotsman were surprise sales successes for Studebaker, paving the way for the '59 Lark which made Studebaker its historical greatest-ever one-year profit in its 107-year history. They made a profit again in 1960, but with the market saturated with Big Three compacts...you know the rest. Part of it is my age, but I think the Studebaker products made for the '62 through '64 model years were the most imaginative in their history.
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  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Back in the 70's that Studebaker would have been a 100.00 car. A very undesirable 100.00 car!
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023

    Back in the 70's that Studebaker would have been a 100.00 car. A very undesirable 100.00 car!


  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,871
    edited December 2015
    LOL...Didn't Scatman Crothers' character drive a '56 Stude? I think we've discussed that here before.
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  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Yep, Louie the garbage man! I tried to look it up on the IMCDB but they didn't have any pictures of his car. I do remember Ed and Louie going on a fishing trip in it once. And for some reason seem to recall an episode where they smuggled something in the trunk. And there was one episode where they were trying to sell a '56 Studebaker (can't remember if it was Louie's or not), and Chico made the above comment.

    It's been ages since I've seen "Chico and the Man"...TVLand used to show it back around 2001-2002. But I seem to recall the Stude being a black 2-door sedan?

    It's a shame that Studebaker waited until 1958 to come out with the Starlight hardtop coupe. I think they would have looked great with the '56-57 styling.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,871
    I like that glassy roofline too. I don't even mind the bug-eyed quad lights--others did it too, just chromed. I do detest the fin-on-a-fin of the '58 Packard. ;)

    I could enjoy a '58 Studebaker President Hardtop. Even at a Stude national meet, they are a rare sight.
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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481


    It is remarkable, though, that Studebaker hung on so long, with not a lot of product and non-competitive pricing. They pulled off a couple of neat tricks. But everyone in the auto business gave them long odds at the time. The shooting was really over by 1964 or so.

    I think in hindsight Studebaker was actually a mistake for Packard--well obviously it was because look what happened.

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,871
    edited December 2015
    One wonders if Packard would've lasted through the '58-60 era without merging with Studebaker--look at Edsel, which had a junior and senior line like the '56 Packard did, and in fact was run by James Nance, Packard's president, who was later fired by Ford. The '59 Lark was a good product decision at the right time, although the success was generally short-lived. Compacts and lower-priced cars became more popular in the recession year of '58, and Packard wouldn't have had anything in that segment.

    Studebaker's high breakeven point, because of their overly generous labor contracts and many (but definitely not all) old factory buildings, hurt Packard for sure, but so did quality problems with Packard's V8 cars. Stude's sales were down 33% in '56, but Packard's were down "a thumping 67%" per Business Week. When the board came to make a decision, they picked Studebaker to save.

    I saw a picture in the Packard Club magazine some years back, of the Conner Ave. plant in Detroit, which they leased, and where V8 Packards were built. It was so small, the pic showed employees' coats hanging overhead.

    I go to South Bend each May for an annual weekend meet there, and every fifth year the international Studebaker Drivers' Club meet is there. I enjoy South Bend--it's the only place where everyone you encounter knows what a Studebaker is..LOL. I'd imagine Kenosha, WI is probably the same except for AMC's. Folks in restaurants and hotels in South Bend seem to be nice to Stude visitors, which is appreciated. The Stude Museum is a beautiful building and they have a bow window with a car on a turntable, which is floodlit at night. Gives a nice "showroom" feel when you drive by.

    The National Packard Museum is only maybe 30 miles from where I live now. It's a nice building, but not in the same league as the Stude Museum IMHO. I know there's another Packard museum in Dayton, OH which I visited probably 25 years ago and enjoyed it too.
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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,871
    Shifty, were you aware that the Packard Predictor showcar actually is a running showcar? I was not aware of this until recently, when I saw someone's personal video of riding with someone from the Stude Museum driving it onto the show field of a multi-make show a year or two ago. It's funny, I know the guy from the Stude Museum driving and he had to stick his head out the window while driving, as he's a tall guy and the Predictor was all about styling, not driving comfort! I wish I could share it here but I haven't found a way to do that.
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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yes I do remember that. The car was built by Ghia and while it did in fact run the electrical system was all fouled up on it. I think it broke down frequently. It was full of gadgetry so I'm sure there was no time to debug it.

    Yeah, I don't think Packard would have lasted too much longer but they might have made it to 1960 with a little luck.

    The Independents were doomed anyway, even in 1946, although they couldn't know that at the time. The Big Three were the elephant in the room that no one in the "little 4" wanted to face. Even AMC, the best managed and probably best financed of them all, had to use Renault as a crutch to survive, and they too were gobbled up by the D3---but remarkably, not until the late 80s.

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    I never could remember...was the '55-56 Packard an all-new car, or just an update of the '51-54 style?

    I think the '55-56 Packards are attractive looking cars, but the bodies seem a bit narrow and upright, and the beltline is kind of high, so to me that sort of betrays their "modern-ness", although the wraparound windshield does help them seem mostly up to date.

    Anyway, I think these cars would have been hard-pressed to compete in their market by 1957, with just about all of the competition in their market being all-new. And for '58 especially...I don't know of that body style would have been able to make the jump to quad headlights with any dignity.

    My guess is that Packard would have started running out of money, and wouldn't be able to afford to come up with an all-new car that was competitive. Or, if they did, it would've ended up coming on the market at the wrong time...something along the lines of the '62 shrunken Dodges and Plymouths, the all-new '74 full-sized Mopars (about the worst possible year to blow your wad on big cars), etc.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well Studebaker had no money either. They were forced to be very clever about making their old cars look like new cars. And is often the case, necessity was the mother of invention, and they did a pretty good job of re-using the old plaforms, engines and even body panels at times. Naturally, as the years progressed, this "hat trick" was less effective, as their big money competitors really started stepping out with totally new technology and styling. How on earth could Studebaker have competed not only on price, but with the Mustang, the "muscle cars", the Riviera, Toronado, all the new pickup trucks and the 2nd generation compacts? It was a hopeless cause.

    Packard was more of a "niche" builder, and while I think Packard could have taken on Lincoln in the 1950s (an ugly car of little merit in my opinion), they would have had to run head to head with Cadillac, and 1955-1970 were sort of Cadillac's Golden Years. And even if Packard had somehow staggered into the late 1960s, they would have had to deal with the emerging Mercedes line of cars.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,871
    The '55-56 Packards were a reskin of the '51-54 body, andre.

    Packard was in a much-better cash position than Studebaker at the time of the merger/buyout. Stude spent a lot on new cars in '47, new trucks for '49, and two completely different bodies in '53--coupes/hardtops and sedans were two completely different cars--not a single piece of sheetmetal or glass interchanges between one and the other. The '53 is a beautiful car IMHO (there's a nice white Champion two-door post coupe on eBay as of a couple days ago, bid to $20K-something), but why they would've built two completely different cars is a mystery to me. Packard's '48 was a facelift of the prewar car, the '51 was new, the '55 was a reskin of the '55, and in their price range, they were dead-last to the party with a V8.
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