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Postwar Studebakers

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Comments

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    edited May 2017
    I wish your new car was on the road, uplander. I should show up at that event in my fintail sometime B)
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    That is a looong drive from Seattle and much of it isn't exactly scenic. But there are some neat spots.
  • bhill2bhill2 Member Posts: 2,597
    OK, I'm curious. The brown job behind the ruby-colored Lark. Gotta be a '58 because it's set up for quad headlights. But it has duals. Were there places where quads still weren't legal?

    2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    Not sure about the legality, but that is a Champion model (low line). The fenders on '58 Studebakers were rigged to accept duals, but the Champion still had singles. Commanders and Presidents got duals. Hawks never got duals, thankfully.
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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    edited May 2017
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  • bhill2bhill2 Member Posts: 2,597

    Not sure about the legality, but that is a Champion model (low line). The fenders on '58 Studebakers were rigged to accept duals, but the Champion still had singles. Commanders and Presidents got duals. Hawks never got duals, thankfully.

    OK, that's just plain chintzy to put singles on the Champ. And it looks it!

    2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])

  • sdasda Member Posts: 7,580
    I've been wondering, why did Studebaker start installing Chevy 6s and V8s?

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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    edited May 2017
    The South Bend, Indiana assembly plant was closed in December, 1963, and production was centralized in the smaller, but newer, Hamilton, Ontario plant. The South Bend engine plant operated until August '64 providing Studebaker engines to the Canadian plant, but was operating at way-under-capacity. For the '65 and '66 model years, 194, 230, and 283 engines of Chevy design was purchased by Studebaker and engineered by Studebaker to fit in the Studebaker chassis. They were built by McKinnon industries in Canada, a GM subsidiary, and I have learned from reliable sources that there are actually some differences from U.S. 283's used at the same time:

    "The McKinnon engines used a forged crank versus bread and butter U.S. engines having a cast crank. They also used the early 283 power pack heads (rectangle with a triangle) whereas domestic engines used the two barrel heads. The McKinnon engines used the wider early timing set where by 65/66 domestic smallblock timing sets were narrower. I believe but I have not verified it that the blocks were a HD casting with cylinder walls thick enough that you could bore it .125 to 4". The rods also had a little heavier beam section which was the same as the 327. It was a good motor. The crank was the same one used on the early production small journal Z28 302's."

    I'm sure that none of the above were Studebaker decisions, but were what GM offered to sell Studebaker.
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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    edited May 2017
    I see this car once a year and I saw it yesterday at the International Meet in South Bend. I just love the car...it's a '64 Gran Turismo Hawk, for one; it's completely authentic right down to tire size and whitewall width AND placement; and it's an unusual color for a Hawk--Horizon Green, not black, white, or red. This is the only pic I could find of it online. In profile, it is just beautiful.

    https://farm1.staticflickr.com/113/257890743_320db7774b_z.jpg

    Floor-shift auto trans (PRND21) and in-dash tach.

    The owner is a nice guy from IL who has owned the car since 1966 and was raised in South Bend and was the son of a Studebaker employee.

    I thought of fintail when he told me this, but he related that when he was a teen in the early sixties, the Studebaker Administration Building had Mercedes-Benz cars in the lobby. He was climbing all through a Gullwing until the receptionist told him, basically, to scram, LOL. He said at the time he was overwhelmed/turned off by the strong aroma of the Benz's leather, but thought he could overlook that on one now. :)
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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    edited May 2017
    Profile view of the Hawk mentioned above. Somebody let me know, please, if the pic is visible to anybody else besides me. (I can see it.) Thanks.

    https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18403149_10210895998854257_4177806969964391207_n.jpg?oh=bc1b829fb2588a67089ce65fa3ae485c&oe=5977E904
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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Yep, the link works. Pretty car, nice color.

    Funny story about the gullwing, seeing as gullwing production ended in 1957, to have one on display in the 60s seems unusual, but maybe the doors and general look of the car were still enough of a party trick to keep it relevant. In the early 70s you could pick them up for 5K easy.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    edited May 2017
    He could very well have clouded memory as to "when" this occurred to him, this far back. S-P started selling M-B in '57.

    There was one 190SL in the car show out there Saturday, but it was a '56!
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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    I should have jumped into the party with the fintail. Actually, I doubt it would have been completely rejected. Not like showing up at a Chrysler event in a 1997 MB while wearing a Dr. Z shirt or something :)
  • sdasda Member Posts: 7,580
    Uplanderguy, what progress have you made with your new toy? Have you been able to drive it? Any recent pictures?

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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    edited May 2017
    '63 Lark Daytona convertible with supercharged R2 engine sold yesterday at Mecum in Indianapolis for $67,500 plus buyer's premium. I saw pics of the car and while it presents beautifully, the 1964 front-fender emblems would slap me in the face every time I got in it. Production information available, shows it was built red, not black, and was built with a column-shift automatic which has been changed to a floor-shift automatic over the years.

    But again, it looks sharp.
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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    edited May 2017
    sda, I'm a loser about posting pics. Don't know how to do it here. I still have a flip phone!

    I have to learn and unlearn so much new tech all the time with work, I like my life simple outside-of-work!

    But to answer your question, I did have a new single exhaust put on last Tuesday. The NOS Y-pipes I bought in South Bend a couple weeks back went on without a hitch, they told me. The guy said that had I not had them, he wouldn't have taken on the job!

    Small thing, but you can see the bright silver clamp from the rear. I think I'll paint that flat black, LOL.

    I took it to its first 'public showing'; i.e., cruise-in, Thursday evening, about two miles from here. It has patina but a fellow with a modified '69 Chevelle appreciated it, especially, and we spoke for a good hour.

    Most people are pretty wowed with the interior. It looks like a turquoise brocade couch, front and rear, LOL.

    It runs and drives beautifully, as it should with 25,850 miles.
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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    I think you can upload pics here directly to be hosted by Edmunds now. I like brocade cloth and those colors, would be cool to see more of it.

    That Lark price sounds insane for an incorrect car, must have been free booze night :)
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Were those wheels a factory option?

    Low mileage sold it I guess, but the mods with the miles would make me a little suspicious.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    fintail said:

    I think you can upload pics here directly to be hosted by Edmunds now. I like brocade cloth and those colors, would be cool to see more of it.

    That Lark price sounds insane for an incorrect car, must have been free booze night :)

    Price is crazy, but it does only have 4,000 miles on it, so maybe that lit someone's shorts on fire.

    At an auction you only need two egos in the room. Besides, price isn't that far off Hagerty's #1 concours value guide. Mecum had it estimated at $100K, so it legitimately fell far short of that.

    Would be a fun car to own for about $35,000.
  • bhill2bhill2 Member Posts: 2,597
    Anyone else notice that the engine is listed as '289/225 HP'? If it's an R-2, and the supercharger in the engine pictures confirms it as such, it's '289/289 HP'.

    2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    edited May 2017
    I'm suspicious of a low-mileage car that has been repainted in a different color and has had the transmission shifter changed from column to floor. That doesn't take away from how nice the car appears.
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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    edited May 2017
    Those are what I believe are reproduction Halibrand mags, which Stude didn't offer from the factory but offered through their dealers' parts departments. But even then, I'm pretty sure that wasn't until the '64 model year.
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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    My friend inspected this car for the fellow who bought it at Mecum the other day. My friend says this car is in terrific original condition; paint, interior, everything. It does leak oil. :)

    https://www.mecum.com/lots/SC0517-282542/1960-studebaker-lark-viii-convertible/
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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    edited May 2017
    bhill, you are correct; an R2 is 289/289. The 225 hp rating is for a four-barrel, non-"R" 289.

    There are so many basic errors of fact (the numbers, mostly) in that description of the yellow '60 Lark, above, my head is spinning. But the car itself was an honest car and the buyer is very pleased.
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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481

    My friend inspected this car for the fellow who bought it at Mecum the other day. My friend says this car is in terrific original condition; paint, interior, everything. It does leak oil. :)

    https://www.mecum.com/lots/SC0517-282542/1960-studebaker-lark-viii-convertible/

    Cute car. That's one I would probably restomod, but modestly so you wouldn't notice it.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    For that 63, I wonder if someone updated it back in the day to make it look newer. People do that kind of thing today, especially with German cars.

    Looks like some Studes are bringing really good money.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    If it's rare, in top shape, has the right options, and presented to the right audience, you're going to see the very high end of the price guides. It's like the K code Mustang convertible vs. the 6 cylinder with the 3-speed manual transmission----a world of difference in the "same" car.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    At 9,900 miles, I'd leave that yellow Lark convert just as it is. :)
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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    If it has all original finishes, I wouldn't modify it either.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited May 2017
    Yeah well, I own it and I can do what I want to it! But stay calm--you'll never notice it unless you drive it. I do have respect you know. And we'll put all the old parts in a box and never cut or weld anything. :p

    ( a little drilling, maybe).
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    edited June 2017
    I do remember seeing Francis Bavier ('Aunt Bee') drive her own 1966 Studebaker on "Mayberry R.F.D." but it had been decades. Someone on another forum provided the episode and here it is. It is featured prominently at about 14:53, on.

    http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1gnofy_mayberry-rfd-s02e26-the-mynah-bird_shortfilms

    Other cars in the series were provided by Chrysler Corporation, and this is noted in the end credits.

    Bavier must've wanted to just drive her own car.

    IMDB says this is the final episode with the 'Aunt Bee' character.

    The car survives by owners in Denton, NC, in somewhat rough shape. It was Bavier's last car and was in her garage when she died in 1989, sitting on flat tires and partly-lived-in by cats.
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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    I see, now, that it is featured prominently at around 13:15 in the clip, followed by Howard Sprague's 1969 Coronet Deluxe.

    I know I like Studebakers, but to me that Stude has stood the test of styling, time-wise, better than Howard's car. :)
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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    I guess I should've said above, "test of time, styling-wise". Brain....well, you know.
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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    edited July 2017
    Don't know if this is visible or not, but interior shot of my '66 Studebaker Cruiser taken yesterday:

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1388154124554774&set=pcb.1388154327888087&type=3
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  • omarmanomarman Member Posts: 2,702
    That interior looks great. I was clicking back and forth to see if that's the same car linked with your name? Tall windows, upright seating, no nader head rests...shows like a comfortable and good looking car interior.
    A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Nice colors uplander, couldn't be better. How many miles have you put on it so far?
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    edited July 2017
    Only about 200 so far. I so-wanted to take it to my hometown's large car show last weekend, but it poured rain Friday--I mean, flood warnings. Saturday was overcast but dry. I could've taken it Saturday, but I wanted to participate in the former Stude dealer's annual old friends dinner at the VFW, which I did, Friday evening.

    If you click on that previous link, then click on my name there, you'll see a few more photos I took of the car and the new-car paperwork that came with it.

    The one pic of the car, right side, looks almost like there's a light-colored pinstripe at the top of the bodyside running from the back of the car to the front of the rear doors. No such thing; just the lighting in the pic.

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  • sdasda Member Posts: 7,580
    edited July 2017
    The interior looks great, love the color and looks comfortable. Too bad the front seat doesn't have a fold down armrest like the back does. I was amused that it had the rear seat belt delete, can't imagine that being a significant savings. Rear seat passengers didn't need seat belts, right? So typical of the time. Mom's '63 Olds only had seat belts up front. The whole car looks really impressive. How does it drive now that the exhaust has been fixed?

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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    Thanks. Well, the exhaust rattles in reverse (grrr). :)

    The car wasn't ordered by the retail customer, so the savings for no rear belts is a mystery to me. I have never seen another '60's Studebaker with the wire wheel covers on the build sheet. The radio was added at some point, but it's a '66 Studebaker radio (one-year-only knobs and buttons), and the trim plate behind it is dead-on, so I have to believe the dealer added it.

    It's funny about the center armrest...the '65 and '66 Chevy Caprice sedans had the center armrest in the rear seat only. I'm thinking Ford LTD was like that too then but not 100% sure. In '67, for the Caprice, the center armrest moved to the front seat. I'd rather have it in front myself. :)

    Pics hide some stuff--the paint is somewhat faded and there are some parking lot nicks on the car. But, it is by far the most original Studebaker I've owned. Just a few miles under 26,000 now.
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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Are you going to be careful with mileage because of the low original miles? I think rear seatbelts weren't mandated until the 1968 safety regs. The fintail also only has them in front - the prior owner put modern ones in rear, but they are simple lap belts, which I hide under the seat.

    Looking at your pics, I still have to say you got the best color combo. I like blue, and that's such a pleasing period correct shade. Have you waxed and detailed it?
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    edited July 2017
    I have washed it twice, and waxed it, only with Meguiar's Cleaner/Wax, which I use on my daily drivers. I'm afraid to use anything harsher on it, and I definitely won't put a buffer to it. I think someone tried to buff it once as there was a fairly big 'burn' mark on the crease above the front wheel opening, which I've touched up (there's a quart of Timberline Turquoise in the trunk).

    If I were ordering a '66 Stude, this is the color I'd probably pick. I've heard a guy or two say that this was the most popular color in '66. I have actually seen one the same exterior color but with gold brocade interior--yuck (MHO only). I do feel lucky to have this car...at least so far! :)

    It's a pretty mid-sixties color tone, isn't it?

    I do think I'll watch the miles, but I don't think I ever put more than 2K miles on a Stude in driving season before; I'd be OK to do that I think.
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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    I use Meguiars cleaner wax on the fintail too, once a year, and a spray on wax or detailer in between. I did get a couple small containers of "Klasse" paint treatment that I am going to try, but I don't know if they will do any better. If the paint seems thin or unstable, better to be cautious as you say.

    Blue on gold doesn't work as well, for sure. Your blue color is very much of the time to my eyes, not as pastel as an earlier car, but not the earthtones that took over by the end of the decade. I haven't put 2K miles a year on my old car since it was my daily driver, I am sure you will be fine with that - you have low miles, but not so low that it can't be driven. If anything, you are keeping it healthy by driving it. I put 100 miles on my car on Sunday, and I think it helps the car.
  • bhill2bhill2 Member Posts: 2,597
    sda said:

    Rear seat passengers didn't need seat belts, right? So typical of the time.

    It was typical. In 1963 or so one of the local service groups (Lions' Club I believe) put on a workshop to install seat belts in cars that didn't have them (which was almost all of them). My parents, who were actually pretty protective of my sister and me, had belts put in our 1960 Falcon, but only in the front. When they brought it home, my sister and I had a major feces attack all over them. They got the message and took it back to have rear belts installed. The thing is, the interior of the Falcon was largely gray so they had had gray belts put in the front. By the time my dad got it back for the rear belts they were out of gray. So for the rest of the car's tenure with us it had gray belts up front and black ones in the rear.

    2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])

  • sdasda Member Posts: 7,580
    When my parents bought the '63 Olds Dynamic 88 Holiday coupe in '65 mom insisted that seat belts be installed up front. She was religious about wearing them and anyone in the passenger seat was made to as well. I have always worn a seatbelt because of her early influence on me.

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  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    Studebaker stuff up for auction, probably a lot of parts only items.
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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    That auction is about 90 mins. west of me and has gotten a lot of publicity in the Studebaker world. I think it'd be fun to go and observe, but my guess is it'll be crowded there. It's about mid-way between Cleveland and Toledo.
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  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    The large number of vehicles is why the auction is being held at the track. It can handle a lot of people.
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  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    fintail said:

    If it has all original finishes, I wouldn't modify it either.

    I always am puzzled as to how someone could order a car like that and pass on a radio.

    I once saw a loaded 1956 Chevy Bel Air that had every option I believed was offered that year. Power windows, seats, steering, brakes Autronic Eye and more but, alas, that ugly plate where the radio should have been!
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    My car was dealer stock. Unusual equipment though--wire wheel covers, no radio, no power steering, no power brakes. Radio was added by dealer I believe--I could never tell without seeing the build sheet. The no power steering and brakes is a maintenance 'positive' I think though.
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