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Comments
So 2 MPG better gas milage makes that Vission a better car? The only Chrysler cars I'll drive are company cars. Somebody else pays for all the repairs and by turn in time they are falling apart. And before you say it I treat company cars as if they were my own. I never had a big problem with Fords.
although looks aren't everything I do want to go with a tire that looks good at the curb and can do the damn thing in a corner. I would like to stay within the $200-$270 price range. Thanks again
one last closing question: other tahn when the traction control feature detects wheel slip does it affect the speed or HP potential of the LS?
I do this about once every two months, makes them look like new.
YMMV
The Pilot Sport A/S gives up a little bit of dry cornering for better wet handling. And they come in 235/50/17 at $212. Treadwear is 400.
I think either one is fine. There are other less expensive choices but IMO these are the best you can get if you can afford them.
As far as traction control goes, the best system is mechanical limited slip AND TC together. Detroit likes to think that TC is a good substitute but it is only a cheap way to give a safety benefit using the ABS sensors you alredy have and adding some software. In slolom racing, where intentional side slip is often used (also called power on turning or in FWD circles "terminal understeer"), TC should be turned "off". Otherwise, when your ABS sensors detect that one rear wheel (or a front wheel as well if you really get wild) is not in sync with the other one, the engine computer will spank you. It will apply brake to the "spinning" wheel (probably caused by the lack of LSD) and/or God will lift your throttle. Some argue that this "correction" to your behavior (or the car's behavior) is both seamless and instantaneous, actually decreasing your lap time. Well, maybe in an F1 car with special sensors. Or in the Cadillac with Stabilitrac with G sensors (and if you start losing your flatulent FWD STS on a corner, I'd add prayer to the Stabilitrac as well), you may not notice something happen (I'd think you wouldn't care anyway if you drive a Caddy. Hell, the car almost drives itself).
But the LS is a little short of the Space Shuttle in this department (unless you have the optional Depends system available). TC will cost you time and control. At Mania I, it was like the devil and I were fighting for control of the car. Correction, counter-correction and on and on. I don't have TC on my LS, so I had no idea what was going on. I thought this might be something in the auto tranny (the Curse of Mark?) as I don't drive an automatic. I did not know how to lock the SST in 2nd so I also might have got an unintended upshift while all this was going on. So my advice for Mania 3: Turn off the TC and depending on the course, lock the auto in the
gear most appropriate for the speed of the turn. On the short, tight course of Mania 1's Gymkhana, that may have been first gear all the way.
Debbie and I would like to thank everyone who helped us get to where we are today! Can't wait to see what our second year will bring!
Brian Gowing
LLSOC President
Brian
On a similar note, locally in the DC Metro area NTB has a policy of matching printed ads. I dont know if they still do, but Ive purchased tires through them before and theyve matched TireRack ads. I guess thats why they never seem to have car magazines lying around in their waiting rooms...dont want customers to see the ads. ;-)
Now I need a bit of an education on the tire sizes... I noticed akirby that you listed 20 tire sizes : 235/50/17 & 245/45/17 I know what the 17 stands for and really could use a little more education on the rest of the numbers... thanks again...
Happy B-day LLSOC.
I was going the Tire Rack way but add shipping, $20-25 per wheel to install & balance, disposal of old tires and no road hazard, lugging the 4 tires across town for installation and suddenly the tires are not the bargain they seem.
My 2 Cents!
Ray
LLSOC member
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/general/sidewall.htm
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/general/sidewall.htm
Now I need a bit of an education on the tire sizes... I noticed akirby that you listed 20 tire sizes : 235/50/17 & 245/45/17 I know what the 17 stands for and really could use a little more education on the rest of the numbers... thanks again...
Happy B-day LLSOC.
Yes, the 245/45 sidewall height is about 110.25 mm while the 235/50 is 117.5 mm. Not a huge difference. The shorter sidewall is actually better for cornering - it's stiffer. But the penalty is a slightly rougher ride. I opted for the better ride quality with the 235/50/17 size.
Rule of thumb (as I remeber it) (width X .aspect ration) X 2 + rim (in m.m.) = overall diameter. I now know where the cheat sheets are, so I can forget about these formulas.
Actually, a 245/45 X 18 is closer to stock than a 245/45 X 17, but that's not at issue here. In any tire change, attempt to keep the difference within 2.5% of the original tire size. This is very important in case of a flat on the rear. To much difference may cause differential problems, especially if you have LSD. Of course, after two model years, you might be on LSD.
lsismore, check out the archived tire discussions at LLSOC, since I know that you are a now a member. ;-)
The Pit Bull
I actually saw a Jeep with those little wheels riding about a foot off the ground. Must have been redlining at highway speeds. A Civic I could *almost* understand, but a Jeep?!?
C&D confirms that the next SVT Cobra will have a blown 4.6L with 7 lbs pressure pumping out 390 hp/390 lb ft with a 6-speed manual. Due out in May.
Speaking of rice rockets - this month's issue also had a test of the Focus SVT, new Civic Si and the VW Golf hotrod. VW came in last. Lots of torque but not much else. Here's the kicker: the Focus absolutely spanked the Civic. Beat it in almost every category: Lap times on the road course, 0-60, skidpad, etc. Didn't like the noise or the stiff suspension for everyday driving. I never thought Ford would step up to the plate and compete with the imports.
I think these things speak well for the direction that Ford (and Lincoln hopefully) is headed (read - better handling, more hp, more gears).
The mag is on the newstands now if anyone is interested.
RE: Ford SVT LS. I for one would buy an SVT LS and will be in the market for another new car in about a year so hurry up Ford time is a wasting.
Maybe even closer to home is the Central Florida region. Their website is http://www.eec.com/racing/.
The Solo National Tour is going to be in Ft. Meyers February 22-24. One of the LS transmission engineers will be entered. She and her husband race a '96 Mustang Cobra R. I know, Ford didn't make one of those. They did.
Mark
Mine are XGT V4's. Out the door they came to $118 each. The Stones are $82 at Tire Rack,and the Pilots are $123. Add shipping, mounting, disposal etc and the Stones come up to more than what the Pilots cost me plus you still have to lug them across town to be mounted and NO Road Hazard. This is a biggie for me with the wife in real estate. She's showing new homes where a month ago buffalo roamed. So nails, screws etc go with the territory.
Back in Canada, I repaired all her tires as it was sometimes as often a twice per week.
I remember saving my pennies for my first set of mags and wide ovals in the 60's. Drove over a bolt that scrapped one tire the first day on the car. No road hazard back then!
Just be aware there are 7 or 8 different Pilots out there. Make sure you're looking at the right ones.
The differance was over 3.5%, and even Tom and Ray said that was too much. Imagine what an LSD unit would do? Clutch pack would make it how far?
Ha, we expect 6-9 inches of the white stuff tonight, thank goodness for Advance Trac. It keeps the car stable in almost all situations, not including the four wheel drifts!
I guess that I'm still at a lose of understanding how traction-control and LSD can work together. If LSD can spin both tires equally (hoping to gain traction through one of the spinning tires) and traction control brakes the spinning tire and sends torque to the other tire, what's the benefit in real world driving? While I'll admit that a four wheel drift is exciting and a SOLO II event can be fun, how do these relate to the real world? I still take my shop teacher's advice, LSD only allows equal length tire strips on the road during a burn-out.
Far more experinced drivers than ourself have admitted to the benifits of traction control over LSD in everyday driving. If the lack of LSD is a detriment to your daily driving, maybe it's the nut behind the wheel.
The whole exercise is justified by the fact that if we take a turn "passively", we always lose speed. By powering through the turn, we are applying power and turning at the same time. And instead of the expected solely rear tire slide which could result in a classic "doughnut" if extreme, we arc through the turn under power. Of course it helps to have 50-50 weight balance. My car at the time was a 74 Toyota Corolla SR-5 and I placed the battery in the trunk and made the chassis as stable as possible with different springs, a lowering block in the rear, and a Panhard Rod that anchored the rear axle to the floor of the trunk. After 3 runs, and after hearing the wierdest noise from the rear, I opened the trunk to find that the bracket bolted to the underside of the trunk panel that connected to the top of the panhard rod had ripped the crap out of the trunk's sheet metal. Despite the heavy leaf springs and rear sway bar, that rear axle wanted to shift laterally on every turn compared to the body of the car. The next week, I went to the Convair surplus sale and bought some "DC-10 skin" from the fuselage of some airplane. Extremely light, but this material ate jig saw blades for breakfast. Finally, I sandwiched the upper bracket between two big panels of this stuff and the rear axle moved no more. A good test of lateral movement is to push with your foot on the side of the rear bumper and see how much lateral movement your rear suspension has. Some of the cars of that era would go back and forth almost a foot. My car moved only the sidewalls of it's radial tires. Needless to say, my Corolla did incredible, predictable slides even though it was underpowered. I used to go up in the hills of my town and toss the car around late at night. What an E-ride! There is nothing like dancing with your car when you and your car are ONE.
Although the LS is a large dance partner, it is tossable to a degree. The damn thing has so much cornering power, you have to work to break traction. The first time you do this may seem scary, because there is there is a fine line between control and losing it. The baby steps are simply rear slides. You just do a proper turn and break the rear tires loose. You must have a moderate speed to do this. Steer the front tires in the direction you want to go, and they will not understeer or break traction. If you overslide in the rear, you can always turn the front wheels the opposite way and back off the throttle. You'll straighten out immediately.
The true four wheel drift adds the added dimension of front tire slide. I simply crank the steering wheel quickly more into the turn and let off the gas slightly after the rear starts sliding so the front can "catch-up" to the rear slide as the rear catches traction. It's actually easier than it sounds.
My favorite turn has the status of a scientific test for the LS and I. Every variable is mentally measured. Rain, dry, hot, cold, speed, even Stone wear. I figure the Stones will almost be at the wear bars at Mania 3 (essentially slicks?).
Now about LSD. I miss it. My two 64 GTO's any 83 4 door Supra had it. It's not just for laying two equal strips of rubber. It's for breaking loose you rear tires EQUALLY on a slide. If you don't have that, your slide will not be as predictable. You won't have command of the loss of traction when you want it. If one tire spins more than the other, you may have an accelerated slide that is too little or too much. The lack of LSD diminishes "repeatability" or "predicablity" of the slide.
LSD with TC is ideal. You would less likely activate TC (if it is rear wheel only) if both rear wheels turned at the same speed via LSD. You would have traction without traction control. Then if you got really screwey, TC would activate.
My 2000 Manual does not have TC. Luckily I live in San Diego. And I've always driven like a granny in the rain, which is rare here. If I was back East, I'd probably even appreciate the Advance Trac.
She called me at work, but had just missed me. When I got home, there was a message on the answering machine. By the time I got back to her with the spare keys, the car had been sitting there idling for about an hour and a half. Good thing that she was able to go back in the school to call me, as her cell phone is in her purse, which was also locked in the car. Boy, is she upset !!
Thanks for the help.
mweinstein2: It is normall for cars to be randomly selected for factory road tests. If this was done there is usually a sticker on the car saying when it was done and how many miles were put on the car.
That being said, you probably don't have anything to worry about. You have full warranty coverage for the term of your lease (unless you go over 50K, of course). Just make sure that extra mileage is noted on your lease agreement and added to the total you're allowed.
You're not missing any speakers. This is the "Lincoln New Math." To them, a 2-way speaker is 2 speakers; a 3-way would be 3 speakers. You get the idea.
Enjoy your new LS & keep us posted.
Artie
Proud LLSOC Charter Member
The twelve speakers in the LS are as follows:
2 on the center console
1 2-way in each front door (4 total)
1 2-way in each rear door (4 total)
2 subwoofers in the trunk
That makes 12
Bruno
LLSOC member