<<<<<For the new readers, the Vision was a misery in terms of reliability, but got 2+ mpg better than the LS in all similar conditions. Lincoln has work to do.>>>>>
So 2 MPG better gas milage makes that Vission a better car? The only Chrysler cars I'll drive are company cars. Somebody else pays for all the repairs and by turn in time they are falling apart. And before you say it I treat company cars as if they were my own. I never had a big problem with Fords.
Thanks for the thorough run down on the tire airby and I appreicate the rest of you folks jumping in on this as well. Well I live in florida where it can be dry just as long as it can be wet. Personally, I am hoping for a very wet year thgis year but only mother nature knows the answer. With that being said and knowing we are still in a dry season I will go with definitely wanting good dry cornering traction I do have the 17" sport firehawks now and think there are good tires especially since they are still holding on at 45k miles and seen ponniepooh still has his on at 47k miles.
although looks aren't everything I do want to go with a tire that looks good at the curb and can do the damn thing in a corner. I would like to stay within the $200-$270 price range. Thanks again
one last closing question: other tahn when the traction control feature detects wheel slip does it affect the speed or HP potential of the LS?
Not to jump off topic completely, but yes, I do agree with your warnings on certain tools Harborfreight sells. Harbor Freight to tools is what JC Whitney is to automotive parts. :-) Couple years ago I bought the Chicago Electric-Electric 1/2" Impact gun. Its big and bulky and heavy, and I have my doubts on its 240ft/lbs claim of torque, but at $49.00, it was INVALUABLE on a strut changing job I did on 3 different 3-series BMW's I worked on. Comparable name brand models were at least 100-200% higher priced. Also bought an 18volt 1/2 cordless drill which has worked great as well. Now for the 500,000 candlepower spotlight, well that stopped working within 1 day. At $10.00, (even though they offer very liberal return policies) wasnt even worth the shipping charges to return it. :-0
Thought I would pass along a tip that works for me. Vacumm the mats thoroughly, pre-treat any stains with your favorite laundry detergent and scrub away. Then wash the mats in the washing machine as you would your clothes. I simply place them on the edge, sort of wrapped around the center "spinner" of the machine. Make sure the water level is set to high. After the final cycle, let them air dry flat across a clothes line or drying rack. If the mats were particularly filthy, you may want to run a empty cycle with some vinegar in the washer to clean out any old residue.
I do this about once every two months, makes them look like new.
Based on your response I would highly recommend the Michelin Pilot Sport. I'm sure Brian would echo that. The survey responses on tirerack.com give it a 9.1 out of 10 for dry traction and 8.9 for dry cornering. High numbers on all the rest, too. They do only come in 245/45/17 but that size is fine. Should be around $250 each. Treadwear is 220.
The Pilot Sport A/S gives up a little bit of dry cornering for better wet handling. And they come in 235/50/17 at $212. Treadwear is 400.
I think either one is fine. There are other less expensive choices but IMO these are the best you can get if you can afford them.
There is sufficient legroom for me to drive 700-800 miles a day comfortably, which is not to say that I wouldn't slide the seat back another inch or so, if I could. I can't, so I don't. It certainly wasn't a deal breaker for the car, which I bought almost two years ago and expect to own for the next several. I've always been puzzled as to what sort of person prefers to have the seat all the way forward. If anyone's aware, I'd love to hear it.
I am 6'2 and my 2000 LS has adequate leg room for me. I'd like a little more legroom but I find the LS comfortable even on long trips. Of course we are all built differently. Two different 6'2 people can have diffent length legs, torso's, necks etc. I take 34" length pants so it might be useful to those complaining about too little leg room to compare their leg length. I also tend to sit with my rear end planted as far back in the seat as it will go. I've seen other drivers kind of slouch down in the seat, that is you could fit a six pack between their lower back and the seat back.
I live in San Diego, so I need Traction Contol and wet handling tires like I need FWD and a fish needs a bicycle. So I need all the dry cornering traction I can get. So I vote for the radical Yokohama AVS Sports. But for an all-around tire, like when Brian goes to Mammoth for skiing, I think the Michelins are the deal (well, not too much a deal but at Costco they are less). Another radical tire is the BF Goodrich Comp T/A G-Force KD at around the same price as the Michelins. As far as traction control goes, the best system is mechanical limited slip AND TC together. Detroit likes to think that TC is a good substitute but it is only a cheap way to give a safety benefit using the ABS sensors you alredy have and adding some software. In slolom racing, where intentional side slip is often used (also called power on turning or in FWD circles "terminal understeer"), TC should be turned "off". Otherwise, when your ABS sensors detect that one rear wheel (or a front wheel as well if you really get wild) is not in sync with the other one, the engine computer will spank you. It will apply brake to the "spinning" wheel (probably caused by the lack of LSD) and/or God will lift your throttle. Some argue that this "correction" to your behavior (or the car's behavior) is both seamless and instantaneous, actually decreasing your lap time. Well, maybe in an F1 car with special sensors. Or in the Cadillac with Stabilitrac with G sensors (and if you start losing your flatulent FWD STS on a corner, I'd add prayer to the Stabilitrac as well), you may not notice something happen (I'd think you wouldn't care anyway if you drive a Caddy. Hell, the car almost drives itself). But the LS is a little short of the Space Shuttle in this department (unless you have the optional Depends system available). TC will cost you time and control. At Mania I, it was like the devil and I were fighting for control of the car. Correction, counter-correction and on and on. I don't have TC on my LS, so I had no idea what was going on. I thought this might be something in the auto tranny (the Curse of Mark?) as I don't drive an automatic. I did not know how to lock the SST in 2nd so I also might have got an unintended upshift while all this was going on. So my advice for Mania 3: Turn off the TC and depending on the course, lock the auto in the gear most appropriate for the speed of the turn. On the short, tight course of Mania 1's Gymkhana, that may have been first gear all the way.
Today is officially LLSOC's first birthday! Looking back I can't believe it's been a year already. We've got 300 members,Lincoln recognition and soon-to-be 3 National Mania events under our belts.
Debbie and I would like to thank everyone who helped us get to where we are today! Can't wait to see what our second year will bring!
I was in the bookstore checking out the February Car and Driver and checked the Tire Racks usual middle of the magazine 2-4 page ad. They still show the price of the 17 inch Firehawk for the LS at $69.00 each. TireRack is known to be a reputable business, so I have a feeling if someone was still in the market for the Firehawks, TireRack would honor the $69.00 price if you mention the ad. I would suggest hurrying though, as next months ad will probably reflect the increase.
On a similar note, locally in the DC Metro area NTB has a policy of matching printed ads. I dont know if they still do, but Ive purchased tires through them before and theyve matched TireRack ads. I guess thats why they never seem to have car magazines lying around in their waiting rooms...dont want customers to see the ads. ;-)
and with the prices as high as they are I can't really afford to make an unwise buying decision like i used to do when I was 20 and cut holes in my pockets just so I could spend money faster.
Now I need a bit of an education on the tire sizes... I noticed akirby that you listed 20 tire sizes : 235/50/17 & 245/45/17 I know what the 17 stands for and really could use a little more education on the rest of the numbers... thanks again...
1st number is width of the tire (tread across) in millimeters. 2nd number is height of the sidewall in aspect ratio to the 1st number. ie, a 245/45 tire has a sidewall that is 45% as tall as the 245 millimeter width.
I don't know if the sale is still on but as I posted last week, I picked mine up at Sears for $109. (225x60x16) I was going the Tire Rack way but add shipping, $20-25 per wheel to install & balance, disposal of old tires and no road hazard, lugging the 4 tires across town for installation and suddenly the tires are not the bargain they seem. My 2 Cents! Ray LLSOC member
Ray - which Pilots did you get exactly? There are 7 or 8 different ones. I thought you were funning until I looked up the prices on tirerack.com for the 225/60/16 size tires. Those puppies are CHEAP! In comparison to the 17" versions that is. But $109 is really cheap regardless!
and with the prices as high as they are I can't really afford to make an unwise buying decision like i used to do when I was 20 and cut holes in my pockets just so I could spend money faster.
Now I need a bit of an education on the tire sizes... I noticed akirby that you listed 20 tire sizes : 235/50/17 & 245/45/17 I know what the 17 stands for and really could use a little more education on the rest of the numbers... thanks again...
is a wider tire with a smaller sidewall is that right? also, what effect does a smaller sidewall have on lateral rollover..... Have i gotten in to deep¿
You are having a senior moment, but not for the reason you think. I answered your previous post of the same message. You double posted. Actually it appears that I double posted also. I'll delete mine if you'll delete yours. :-)
Yes, the 245/45 sidewall height is about 110.25 mm while the 235/50 is 117.5 mm. Not a huge difference. The shorter sidewall is actually better for cornering - it's stiffer. But the penalty is a slightly rougher ride. I opted for the better ride quality with the 235/50/17 size.
As I posted earlier, I got the Yokohama AVS dB in 245/45/17. I paid ~$150 each at a local discount tire chain, named appropiately Discount Tire. I run 36# of air and the ride is smooth. Even on our grooved freeways. Cornering in these is phenomenal. I highley recommend them. Oh yea, the treadwear is 320.
According to the tire calculator available at the LLSOC web site, here is some info for lsismore. If I remember correctly, the 235/50 X 17 are the stock tire size. Going to the 245/45 X 17' garner a 2.2% difference. Another words, when your speedometer reads 60, you are doing 58.7 m.p.h.
Rule of thumb (as I remeber it) (width X .aspect ration) X 2 + rim (in m.m.) = overall diameter. I now know where the cheat sheets are, so I can forget about these formulas.
Actually, a 245/45 X 18 is closer to stock than a 245/45 X 17, but that's not at issue here. In any tire change, attempt to keep the difference within 2.5% of the original tire size. This is very important in case of a flat on the rear. To much difference may cause differential problems, especially if you have LSD. Of course, after two model years, you might be on LSD.
lsismore, check out the archived tire discussions at LLSOC, since I know that you are a now a member. ;-)
Since the LS has no LSD, the only concern would be the effect of different rear tire diameters on the Traction Control system. The difference might be interpreted as tire slip and activate braking on the smaller diameter wheel and/or throttle attenuation. Ok, it would have to be a big difference in diameter.
You mean those neat little 13" wheels I put on with the 6 inch drop kit will cause problems??
I actually saw a Jeep with those little wheels riding about a foot off the ground. Must have been redlining at highway speeds. A Civic I could *almost* understand, but a Jeep?!?
Yep, the $69 price for the Firehawks is right there in the ad so I think they would honor it. But only if you ask.
C&D confirms that the next SVT Cobra will have a blown 4.6L with 7 lbs pressure pumping out 390 hp/390 lb ft with a 6-speed manual. Due out in May.
Speaking of rice rockets - this month's issue also had a test of the Focus SVT, new Civic Si and the VW Golf hotrod. VW came in last. Lots of torque but not much else. Here's the kicker: the Focus absolutely spanked the Civic. Beat it in almost every category: Lap times on the road course, 0-60, skidpad, etc. Didn't like the noise or the stiff suspension for everyday driving. I never thought Ford would step up to the plate and compete with the imports.
I think these things speak well for the direction that Ford (and Lincoln hopefully) is headed (read - better handling, more hp, more gears).
WHile I was magazine browsing, I picked up one of those Sport Compact Car type mags. There was a test of 10 owner modified cars that readers pick each year to test. There was a 1990 300Zx, a Datsun B210, 1994 Supra, Nissan Sentra, a few others, and a Hyundai Tiburon. Get this. The Hyundai was modified to have TWO engines, one front, one rear, each engine driving the respective set of wheels. (AWD). The engines were stock Hyndai engines, but modified to run Methanol, I believe. The Hyndai was the fastest 0-60 and most total HP. Total hp was somewhere in the 670hp range, if I recall correctly. 0-60 test done by the mag was 3.3 seconds. wow. The mag is on the newstands now if anyone is interested.
I checked the actual rpm's between the stock Firehawks and the Yoko's. The 'Stones turn 792 and the Yoko's 808. That is about a 2% diff. So 60 is really 59. That can only help me as I only see 60 briefly on the on and off ramps .
Thanks for all the info. I will also look at the Yoko's as I used to run Yoko's a long time ago on my Nissan 240sx and liked the ride. I am also going to look at the Pilots since they seem to come highly recommeded as well. I am going to go with the 245/45/17 as I still am trying to cling to my youth and could use the grip when i hit a nice on/off ramp on our super parking lot, aka I4, here in Tampa.
RE: Ford SVT LS. I for one would buy an SVT LS and will be in the market for another new car in about a year so hurry up Ford time is a wasting.
If your concerned with grip, then get the Yokohama AVS dbs. I bought a set 18000 miles ago and still absolutely love them. I can hit wicked corners, powerslide, top 125mph, and feel in absolute total control. This is one of the best tires I have experienced, next to race/competition tires(they last much longer too). Also the db's have an aggressive tread pattern that when parked with the wheels slightly turned, you get a lot of people looking at the tires and then checking out the car ;-))
According to Autoweek the manual transmission G35 is a year away and there are no plans for LSD in the G35. In addition 205 tires are standard with 215 x 7 optional.
Yes another stall after another high speed, i omitted the speed to protect the guilty, run from Orlando to Tampa. Made my exit stoped at the light and kaput it stalled. It was a rapid deceleration so I am thinking along the line of some sort of G load to the fuel system. Oh well... I did dust several cars like a Pasat, a few rice burners some 3 series and 2 5 series. thank goodness the law enforcement folks were busy changing tires. Count them 5 State Troopers stoppped to help change the tire on another patrol car. But I absolutely out handled them all and I actually feel embarassed for them, the cars I toasted that is. I think the mod to the air box helped tons. I am convinced Tampa, Fl needs autocross in a bad way so if anyone can lend some tips on how to get one started please email me @ noahpullen@hotmail.com. I am off to shop for some more Yoko's thanks again for the tips.
Try contacting the Florida Region of SCCA (Sports Car Club of America.) They put on Solo races, and might have some near Tampa. Their website is http://floridaregionscca.com/.
The Solo National Tour is going to be in Ft. Meyers February 22-24. One of the LS transmission engineers will be entered. She and her husband race a '96 Mustang Cobra R. I know, Ford didn't make one of those. They did.
Sorry for the delay in reply. My wife is now in real estate and is using the LS. As ,I haven't seen the car or the paper work since we put the Pilots on last week. We had 5" of rain in 2 days so they came none too soon. Mine are XGT V4's. Out the door they came to $118 each. The Stones are $82 at Tire Rack,and the Pilots are $123. Add shipping, mounting, disposal etc and the Stones come up to more than what the Pilots cost me plus you still have to lug them across town to be mounted and NO Road Hazard. This is a biggie for me with the wife in real estate. She's showing new homes where a month ago buffalo roamed. So nails, screws etc go with the territory. Back in Canada, I repaired all her tires as it was sometimes as often a twice per week. I remember saving my pennies for my first set of mags and wide ovals in the 60's. Drove over a bolt that scrapped one tire the first day on the car. No road hazard back then!
Thanks Ray. There are many different Michelin Pilots nowadays. The XGT V4 is a good tire, but it's not the same as the Pilot Sport or Pilot Sport A/S. Sounds like a good deal, though.
Just be aware there are 7 or 8 different Pilots out there. Make sure you're looking at the right ones.
I believe the differential will attempt to compensate for overall tire size differences, up to a point. Have you read about the person who put on a tire, the same size and aspcet, but a different diameter, and ate his differential with in ten miles? I have! This was back when the dealers neglected to state that a spare was optional on a full sized pick-up.
The differance was over 3.5%, and even Tom and Ray said that was too much. Imagine what an LSD unit would do? Clutch pack would make it how far?
Ha, we expect 6-9 inches of the white stuff tonight, thank goodness for Advance Trac. It keeps the car stable in almost all situations, not including the four wheel drifts!
I guess that I'm still at a lose of understanding how traction-control and LSD can work together. If LSD can spin both tires equally (hoping to gain traction through one of the spinning tires) and traction control brakes the spinning tire and sends torque to the other tire, what's the benefit in real world driving? While I'll admit that a four wheel drift is exciting and a SOLO II event can be fun, how do these relate to the real world? I still take my shop teacher's advice, LSD only allows equal length tire strips on the road during a burn-out.
Far more experinced drivers than ourself have admitted to the benifits of traction control over LSD in everyday driving. If the lack of LSD is a detriment to your daily driving, maybe it's the nut behind the wheel.
I have to admit that I attempt four wheel drifts almost every day. There is a certain freeway on ramp that goes uphill and makes a sweeping right. The tail comes out under power and then I tease the fronts to join the fun by turning the steering wheel just enough to break front traction. Back in the 70's at the slolom races they now call Solo 2, I used to watch the manual Corvettes of the day do intentional four wheel drifts all the time. The drivers used to get frustrated at the tight corners where the Corvettes power was not at an advantage against the smaller cars. So instead of just driving through the corners, which slowed them down at the exit of the turn for the charge down the straightaway, they would "power slide" through the turn, turning and accelerating at the same time. Very planned and controllable. The intentional application of power kept up speed and at the same time "plowed" the front tires creating a four wheel slide at a very low speed. I consider a four wheel "drift", on the other hand, to occur at a faster speed and is aided by centrifical force to a large degree. The whole exercise is justified by the fact that if we take a turn "passively", we always lose speed. By powering through the turn, we are applying power and turning at the same time. And instead of the expected solely rear tire slide which could result in a classic "doughnut" if extreme, we arc through the turn under power. Of course it helps to have 50-50 weight balance. My car at the time was a 74 Toyota Corolla SR-5 and I placed the battery in the trunk and made the chassis as stable as possible with different springs, a lowering block in the rear, and a Panhard Rod that anchored the rear axle to the floor of the trunk. After 3 runs, and after hearing the wierdest noise from the rear, I opened the trunk to find that the bracket bolted to the underside of the trunk panel that connected to the top of the panhard rod had ripped the crap out of the trunk's sheet metal. Despite the heavy leaf springs and rear sway bar, that rear axle wanted to shift laterally on every turn compared to the body of the car. The next week, I went to the Convair surplus sale and bought some "DC-10 skin" from the fuselage of some airplane. Extremely light, but this material ate jig saw blades for breakfast. Finally, I sandwiched the upper bracket between two big panels of this stuff and the rear axle moved no more. A good test of lateral movement is to push with your foot on the side of the rear bumper and see how much lateral movement your rear suspension has. Some of the cars of that era would go back and forth almost a foot. My car moved only the sidewalls of it's radial tires. Needless to say, my Corolla did incredible, predictable slides even though it was underpowered. I used to go up in the hills of my town and toss the car around late at night. What an E-ride! There is nothing like dancing with your car when you and your car are ONE. Although the LS is a large dance partner, it is tossable to a degree. The damn thing has so much cornering power, you have to work to break traction. The first time you do this may seem scary, because there is there is a fine line between control and losing it. The baby steps are simply rear slides. You just do a proper turn and break the rear tires loose. You must have a moderate speed to do this. Steer the front tires in the direction you want to go, and they will not understeer or break traction. If you overslide in the rear, you can always turn the front wheels the opposite way and back off the throttle. You'll straighten out immediately. The true four wheel drift adds the added dimension of front tire slide. I simply crank the steering wheel quickly more into the turn and let off the gas slightly after the rear starts sliding so the front can "catch-up" to the rear slide as the rear catches traction. It's actually easier than it sounds. My favorite turn has the status of a scientific test for the LS and I. Every variable is mentally measured. Rain, dry, hot, cold, speed, even Stone wear. I figure the Stones will almost be at the wear bars at Mania 3 (essentially slicks?). Now about LSD. I miss it. My two 64 GTO's any 83 4 door Supra had it. It's not just for laying two equal strips of rubber. It's for breaking loose you rear tires EQUALLY on a slide. If you don't have that, your slide will not be as predictable. You won't have command of the loss of traction when you want it. If one tire spins more than the other, you may have an accelerated slide that is too little or too much. The lack of LSD diminishes "repeatability" or "predicablity" of the slide. LSD with TC is ideal. You would less likely activate TC (if it is rear wheel only) if both rear wheels turned at the same speed via LSD. You would have traction without traction control. Then if you got really screwey, TC would activate. My 2000 Manual does not have TC. Luckily I live in San Diego. And I've always driven like a granny in the rain, which is rare here. If I was back East, I'd probably even appreciate the Advance Trac.
My wife left school yesterday afternoon, went to the parking lot, opened up the LS, got in, started it up, then got out to clear off the snow. When finished with the snow, goes to open door and leave. Guess what??!! The door locked had locked behind her, car running. She called me at work, but had just missed me. When I got home, there was a message on the answering machine. By the time I got back to her with the spare keys, the car had been sitting there idling for about an hour and a half. Good thing that she was able to go back in the school to call me, as her cell phone is in her purse, which was also locked in the car. Boy, is she upset !!
Picked up yesterday my LS V8 Sport. I am leasing the car and when I went to sign papers the odometer statement said the car had 115 miles on it. This car was in dealer stock and they did not trade for it. Window sticker said car was shipped directly to dealer. I thought this was high and the manager said why worry you are leasing and that Lincoln test the car on the track before shipping and then the dealer test the car. Still though this was high. Wanted to know other people thoughts. Also, the car is supposed to have the Alpine 12 speaker system but I only see the four speakers in the front on the doors and and next to your legs and then 2 on the back doors. Where are the other speakers located???
I have a 2000 LS8 with 40k miles on it. I have never requested anything special for oil changes. Is it ok to change over to Synthetic Oil? Do I need to perform anything before changing over? Can anyone recommend a Synthetic oil and viscosity (I live in the Boston area)? Should I continue to change the oil every 3k mi or longer with Synthetic? What oil filter should I use?
Come on Gary I count 5 places that Stanny used the "ENTER" key in his last post. In addition, he's in real estate so he's had years of practice making things impossible to read. (-:
mweinstein2: It is normall for cars to be randomly selected for factory road tests. If this was done there is usually a sticker on the car saying when it was done and how many miles were put on the car.
112 miles does seem high for a car that was not swapped for and arrived at the dealer by car carrier. I'd want a better explanation. Perhaps Mark or Scot will weigh in here, but if I'm not mistaken, when the mfr. selects a car for testing, a sticker is affixed next to the window sticker so stating, along with the amount of mileage that was accumulated during testing. I don't think they take any cars for a 112 mile shakedown cruise. Sounds like another sales mgr. steaming pile to me. There's something they're not telling you. I don't recall offhand, but there is a mileage limit at which a car can no longer be sold as new. I don't think, however, that it's as low as 112 miles. I'd make a stink over it until they came clean. Of course, if you've signed the papers already, this is kind of moot.
That being said, you probably don't have anything to worry about. You have full warranty coverage for the term of your lease (unless you go over 50K, of course). Just make sure that extra mileage is noted on your lease agreement and added to the total you're allowed.
You're not missing any speakers. This is the "Lincoln New Math." To them, a 2-way speaker is 2 speakers; a 3-way would be 3 speakers. You get the idea.
I don't think that the speaker count is a Lincoln or FoMoCo only thing. My Dodge Avenger had supposedly 10 speakers in it, but they noted that they were in 6 locations. They are correct, though, that each component is essetially a speaker, so technically they are right in what they say (and I'm sure they checked with their lawyers first.)
The twelve speakers in the LS are as follows: 2 on the center console 1 2-way in each front door (4 total) 1 2-way in each rear door (4 total) 2 subwoofers in the trunk
Comments
So 2 MPG better gas milage makes that Vission a better car? The only Chrysler cars I'll drive are company cars. Somebody else pays for all the repairs and by turn in time they are falling apart. And before you say it I treat company cars as if they were my own. I never had a big problem with Fords.
although looks aren't everything I do want to go with a tire that looks good at the curb and can do the damn thing in a corner. I would like to stay within the $200-$270 price range. Thanks again
one last closing question: other tahn when the traction control feature detects wheel slip does it affect the speed or HP potential of the LS?
I do this about once every two months, makes them look like new.
YMMV
The Pilot Sport A/S gives up a little bit of dry cornering for better wet handling. And they come in 235/50/17 at $212. Treadwear is 400.
I think either one is fine. There are other less expensive choices but IMO these are the best you can get if you can afford them.
As far as traction control goes, the best system is mechanical limited slip AND TC together. Detroit likes to think that TC is a good substitute but it is only a cheap way to give a safety benefit using the ABS sensors you alredy have and adding some software. In slolom racing, where intentional side slip is often used (also called power on turning or in FWD circles "terminal understeer"), TC should be turned "off". Otherwise, when your ABS sensors detect that one rear wheel (or a front wheel as well if you really get wild) is not in sync with the other one, the engine computer will spank you. It will apply brake to the "spinning" wheel (probably caused by the lack of LSD) and/or God will lift your throttle. Some argue that this "correction" to your behavior (or the car's behavior) is both seamless and instantaneous, actually decreasing your lap time. Well, maybe in an F1 car with special sensors. Or in the Cadillac with Stabilitrac with G sensors (and if you start losing your flatulent FWD STS on a corner, I'd add prayer to the Stabilitrac as well), you may not notice something happen (I'd think you wouldn't care anyway if you drive a Caddy. Hell, the car almost drives itself).
But the LS is a little short of the Space Shuttle in this department (unless you have the optional Depends system available). TC will cost you time and control. At Mania I, it was like the devil and I were fighting for control of the car. Correction, counter-correction and on and on. I don't have TC on my LS, so I had no idea what was going on. I thought this might be something in the auto tranny (the Curse of Mark?) as I don't drive an automatic. I did not know how to lock the SST in 2nd so I also might have got an unintended upshift while all this was going on. So my advice for Mania 3: Turn off the TC and depending on the course, lock the auto in the
gear most appropriate for the speed of the turn. On the short, tight course of Mania 1's Gymkhana, that may have been first gear all the way.
Debbie and I would like to thank everyone who helped us get to where we are today! Can't wait to see what our second year will bring!
Brian Gowing
LLSOC President
Brian
On a similar note, locally in the DC Metro area NTB has a policy of matching printed ads. I dont know if they still do, but Ive purchased tires through them before and theyve matched TireRack ads. I guess thats why they never seem to have car magazines lying around in their waiting rooms...dont want customers to see the ads. ;-)
Now I need a bit of an education on the tire sizes... I noticed akirby that you listed 20 tire sizes : 235/50/17 & 245/45/17 I know what the 17 stands for and really could use a little more education on the rest of the numbers... thanks again...
Happy B-day LLSOC.
I was going the Tire Rack way but add shipping, $20-25 per wheel to install & balance, disposal of old tires and no road hazard, lugging the 4 tires across town for installation and suddenly the tires are not the bargain they seem.
My 2 Cents!
Ray
LLSOC member
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/general/sidewall.htm
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/general/sidewall.htm
Now I need a bit of an education on the tire sizes... I noticed akirby that you listed 20 tire sizes : 235/50/17 & 245/45/17 I know what the 17 stands for and really could use a little more education on the rest of the numbers... thanks again...
Happy B-day LLSOC.
Yes, the 245/45 sidewall height is about 110.25 mm while the 235/50 is 117.5 mm. Not a huge difference. The shorter sidewall is actually better for cornering - it's stiffer. But the penalty is a slightly rougher ride. I opted for the better ride quality with the 235/50/17 size.
Rule of thumb (as I remeber it) (width X .aspect ration) X 2 + rim (in m.m.) = overall diameter. I now know where the cheat sheets are, so I can forget about these formulas.
Actually, a 245/45 X 18 is closer to stock than a 245/45 X 17, but that's not at issue here. In any tire change, attempt to keep the difference within 2.5% of the original tire size. This is very important in case of a flat on the rear. To much difference may cause differential problems, especially if you have LSD. Of course, after two model years, you might be on LSD.
lsismore, check out the archived tire discussions at LLSOC, since I know that you are a now a member. ;-)
The Pit Bull
I actually saw a Jeep with those little wheels riding about a foot off the ground. Must have been redlining at highway speeds. A Civic I could *almost* understand, but a Jeep?!?
C&D confirms that the next SVT Cobra will have a blown 4.6L with 7 lbs pressure pumping out 390 hp/390 lb ft with a 6-speed manual. Due out in May.
Speaking of rice rockets - this month's issue also had a test of the Focus SVT, new Civic Si and the VW Golf hotrod. VW came in last. Lots of torque but not much else. Here's the kicker: the Focus absolutely spanked the Civic. Beat it in almost every category: Lap times on the road course, 0-60, skidpad, etc. Didn't like the noise or the stiff suspension for everyday driving. I never thought Ford would step up to the plate and compete with the imports.
I think these things speak well for the direction that Ford (and Lincoln hopefully) is headed (read - better handling, more hp, more gears).
The mag is on the newstands now if anyone is interested.
RE: Ford SVT LS. I for one would buy an SVT LS and will be in the market for another new car in about a year so hurry up Ford time is a wasting.
Maybe even closer to home is the Central Florida region. Their website is http://www.eec.com/racing/.
The Solo National Tour is going to be in Ft. Meyers February 22-24. One of the LS transmission engineers will be entered. She and her husband race a '96 Mustang Cobra R. I know, Ford didn't make one of those. They did.
Mark
Mine are XGT V4's. Out the door they came to $118 each. The Stones are $82 at Tire Rack,and the Pilots are $123. Add shipping, mounting, disposal etc and the Stones come up to more than what the Pilots cost me plus you still have to lug them across town to be mounted and NO Road Hazard. This is a biggie for me with the wife in real estate. She's showing new homes where a month ago buffalo roamed. So nails, screws etc go with the territory.
Back in Canada, I repaired all her tires as it was sometimes as often a twice per week.
I remember saving my pennies for my first set of mags and wide ovals in the 60's. Drove over a bolt that scrapped one tire the first day on the car. No road hazard back then!
Just be aware there are 7 or 8 different Pilots out there. Make sure you're looking at the right ones.
The differance was over 3.5%, and even Tom and Ray said that was too much. Imagine what an LSD unit would do? Clutch pack would make it how far?
Ha, we expect 6-9 inches of the white stuff tonight, thank goodness for Advance Trac. It keeps the car stable in almost all situations, not including the four wheel drifts!
I guess that I'm still at a lose of understanding how traction-control and LSD can work together. If LSD can spin both tires equally (hoping to gain traction through one of the spinning tires) and traction control brakes the spinning tire and sends torque to the other tire, what's the benefit in real world driving? While I'll admit that a four wheel drift is exciting and a SOLO II event can be fun, how do these relate to the real world? I still take my shop teacher's advice, LSD only allows equal length tire strips on the road during a burn-out.
Far more experinced drivers than ourself have admitted to the benifits of traction control over LSD in everyday driving. If the lack of LSD is a detriment to your daily driving, maybe it's the nut behind the wheel.
The whole exercise is justified by the fact that if we take a turn "passively", we always lose speed. By powering through the turn, we are applying power and turning at the same time. And instead of the expected solely rear tire slide which could result in a classic "doughnut" if extreme, we arc through the turn under power. Of course it helps to have 50-50 weight balance. My car at the time was a 74 Toyota Corolla SR-5 and I placed the battery in the trunk and made the chassis as stable as possible with different springs, a lowering block in the rear, and a Panhard Rod that anchored the rear axle to the floor of the trunk. After 3 runs, and after hearing the wierdest noise from the rear, I opened the trunk to find that the bracket bolted to the underside of the trunk panel that connected to the top of the panhard rod had ripped the crap out of the trunk's sheet metal. Despite the heavy leaf springs and rear sway bar, that rear axle wanted to shift laterally on every turn compared to the body of the car. The next week, I went to the Convair surplus sale and bought some "DC-10 skin" from the fuselage of some airplane. Extremely light, but this material ate jig saw blades for breakfast. Finally, I sandwiched the upper bracket between two big panels of this stuff and the rear axle moved no more. A good test of lateral movement is to push with your foot on the side of the rear bumper and see how much lateral movement your rear suspension has. Some of the cars of that era would go back and forth almost a foot. My car moved only the sidewalls of it's radial tires. Needless to say, my Corolla did incredible, predictable slides even though it was underpowered. I used to go up in the hills of my town and toss the car around late at night. What an E-ride! There is nothing like dancing with your car when you and your car are ONE.
Although the LS is a large dance partner, it is tossable to a degree. The damn thing has so much cornering power, you have to work to break traction. The first time you do this may seem scary, because there is there is a fine line between control and losing it. The baby steps are simply rear slides. You just do a proper turn and break the rear tires loose. You must have a moderate speed to do this. Steer the front tires in the direction you want to go, and they will not understeer or break traction. If you overslide in the rear, you can always turn the front wheels the opposite way and back off the throttle. You'll straighten out immediately.
The true four wheel drift adds the added dimension of front tire slide. I simply crank the steering wheel quickly more into the turn and let off the gas slightly after the rear starts sliding so the front can "catch-up" to the rear slide as the rear catches traction. It's actually easier than it sounds.
My favorite turn has the status of a scientific test for the LS and I. Every variable is mentally measured. Rain, dry, hot, cold, speed, even Stone wear. I figure the Stones will almost be at the wear bars at Mania 3 (essentially slicks?).
Now about LSD. I miss it. My two 64 GTO's any 83 4 door Supra had it. It's not just for laying two equal strips of rubber. It's for breaking loose you rear tires EQUALLY on a slide. If you don't have that, your slide will not be as predictable. You won't have command of the loss of traction when you want it. If one tire spins more than the other, you may have an accelerated slide that is too little or too much. The lack of LSD diminishes "repeatability" or "predicablity" of the slide.
LSD with TC is ideal. You would less likely activate TC (if it is rear wheel only) if both rear wheels turned at the same speed via LSD. You would have traction without traction control. Then if you got really screwey, TC would activate.
My 2000 Manual does not have TC. Luckily I live in San Diego. And I've always driven like a granny in the rain, which is rare here. If I was back East, I'd probably even appreciate the Advance Trac.
She called me at work, but had just missed me. When I got home, there was a message on the answering machine. By the time I got back to her with the spare keys, the car had been sitting there idling for about an hour and a half. Good thing that she was able to go back in the school to call me, as her cell phone is in her purse, which was also locked in the car. Boy, is she upset !!
Thanks for the help.
mweinstein2: It is normall for cars to be randomly selected for factory road tests. If this was done there is usually a sticker on the car saying when it was done and how many miles were put on the car.
That being said, you probably don't have anything to worry about. You have full warranty coverage for the term of your lease (unless you go over 50K, of course). Just make sure that extra mileage is noted on your lease agreement and added to the total you're allowed.
You're not missing any speakers. This is the "Lincoln New Math." To them, a 2-way speaker is 2 speakers; a 3-way would be 3 speakers. You get the idea.
Enjoy your new LS & keep us posted.
Artie
Proud LLSOC Charter Member
The twelve speakers in the LS are as follows:
2 on the center console
1 2-way in each front door (4 total)
1 2-way in each rear door (4 total)
2 subwoofers in the trunk
That makes 12
Bruno
LLSOC member