My LS has never had the problem but if holding the accelerator down while cranking is necessary, it sounds like it is flooded. How does it run when it does start?
I had a Taurus company car a few years ago that did exactly the same thing and it was a bad injector. It was basically dumping in too much fuel.
In any case, it is hard to imagine that there is no clear diagnosis or no fix. I don't know if the fuel mixture calibration is different on 2001s than on 2000s, but mine starts on the first crank whether it is 100 degrees or 25 below. If I had your problem, I would probably seek a 2nd opinion at a different dealer.
It's the overload of the marketing types, the bean counters and let's not forget the Wharton MBA types with their majestic take-over plans. Ford is missing almost all that 27 billion for new product development. It's in Volvo (overpaid), Range Rover (BMW was glad to dump that loser), Jaguar (well maybe that one has potential if you can milk the name). And a few unassociated to the car business ventures. BMW healed up very fast after the enema. But in this economy, can you dump some of these even at fire sale prices? I own a Volvo (last of the RWD real Volvos) and I wouldn't touch an S80 with its 27 computers and Buick tranny with a 10 ft pole. I can't tell you how many parts break on this car, especially the plastic parts. It's real safe, as long as it doesn't recycle early with you in it. So fire the bean counters too. Didn't Henry Ford sort of prove that if you make enough M5's, they get awfully cheap to make. It's just a matter of making enough to lower the price. BMW doesn't want to try. Henry would say "Any color you want, as long as it's black". I'll take a black one!
lsismore- when i read that you modified your airbox - I looked back at a message that you posted that stated that you have the 2002 LS. You should already have the "best" airbox to do the job - should have an open snorkel on the front. (The exhaust is different, too.) I have a 2000 V6 and installed the 2002 airbox. I didn't drill any more holes or anything like that.
If the car is brand new - give it a couple of thousand miles to break in - then you'll notice a difference. Mine still feels like it is breaking in with almost 30,000 miles! I made the switch to Mobil 1 at 15,000 miles.
Speaking of the open snorkel on the front of the 2002 airbox... is anybody worried about critters have easy-access to build nests in the airbox? (It really doesn't take them long...) With mine sitting over the winter - I AM! I'm thinking a little mesh screen might be helpful - but hate to cut down on airflow.
Just returned from a 600+ mile round trip - in my former 1994 Continental. Beside the annoying "Low Oil Pressure" and "Check DCL" beeps every 2 minutes (I kid you not...), floating & bobbing and less than stellar handling - I certainly missed driving my LS! Although, it would have been way too small to take with 5 large adults and the Conti's trunk space. Believe me, the Conti provided a comfortable ride - it was just annoying! (You won't EVER see me wishing for the trip computer in my V6 - EVER!)
I did see several LS's on the way to and from Saginaw, MI.
With all this "German" talk on the board lately - I have to put a plug in for visiting the 'German' town of Frankenmuth, in Michigan - great family-style chicken dinners at the Bavarian Inn.
If I'm not mistaken, the "Shortstar" has been built and is the 3.5L V6 used in the Olds Intrigue for several years now. IIRC, this is a Northstar minus 2 cylinders. This was the replacement for the 3.8 Buick V6 that the car was originally introduced with.
Brucelinc - thanks for your input. Everyone that has heard the symptoms says it seems as though the car is flooded.
Ok, I picked up the car and here's what my receipt states: Let run for 20 mins and shut down for one hour, verified customer complaint of hard starting. Car will not start unless the gas pedal is pressed to floor. Car acted like it was flooded. WDS and check for codes - none. Check fuel presure and pressure drop - ok. Check injector flow test - ok, Monitor PIDS - ok. Perform ignition system test - ok. Called hotline for assistance - was told there is a SSM for concern between 30 and 40 degrees. Vehicle will flood. Possible calibration issue.
I only use Mobil 93 octance gas. I filled the tank with 11 gallons of the 89 octane to see if there is a problem with fuel atomization making the car hard to start.
The only problem with what Ford is looking at is here in Chicago it's been in the upper 50's/low 60's for the past 3-4 days and the problem is still there. You can start the car in two seconds if it only sits for about 15-20 minutes after being warmed up. Longer than that and you have the starting issue.
If anyone has any other thought, please share them.
Airbox, break-in, Syn oil, gee, is there an echo in here? I also got tired of "waiting" for the break-in and switched to Mobil 1 at about 15k. The only drawback is that the dealer wants to trash my oil every 3k or so. I just got my 2002 air box and it came with a new air meter. Did you just plug yours in? I guess the air meter is the same as the 2000 and 2001? Did you notice a performance increase? Looking at the air box, I don't think the little critters could do much damage unless they ate through that oily K&N filter. Yuck. I agree with you on the Duratech. It takes a lllooooonnngg time to break this puppy in. 22k and it runs better than ever. They rarely state the mileage on the car in the mag tests. That's why the V-6 tests so slow. The engines are still too tight.
Does the LS have a cold start injector? This is separate from the regular fuel injectors. It's activated by temperature and some have a timing mechanism. Big problem on Camrys. Just an idea. Anyone have a shop manual or CD?
I pretty much agree with what you say, as I'm a buyer rather than a leaser. My (wife's)LS will be two years old this May, but as of today, has just over 13K on the clock. So, unless something unforseen and unfortunate happens, we plan on having the car for a while. I just hope that we don't wind up with another "orphan car".
The LS does not have a cold start injector, but that is a very good guess! I remember working on older BMWs that the CS injector would stick open and hydrolock the engine.
As for the cold start issue, we are WELL aware of the problem and are working frantically on the solution. I'm very glad Matt had the foresight to "floor" the accelerator pedal - most complaints are accompanied by a dead battery and wet sparkplugs. I have forwarded Matt's posts to my management to see if they want to look at the car - we've had no luck in repeating the problem back in Detroit.
Just as a side note, we try to test and develop under every imaginable condition using many types of fuels. Unfortunately, we cannot know every combination of conditions a car can be exposed to as in Matt's case. Sometimes, things lie this can happen
Matt, e-mail me at sdougla2@ford.com, we do care about your problem and are working to fix it.
Can you say "4.6L Eaton supercharged V8?" Can you say "390 hp/ 390 ft/lbs torque?" Can you say "T56 six-speed manual?" Can you say "$35K ?"
That's what BON is saying. Supposedly there's a news embargo until Feb. 6 but what do they care? The 2002 Cobra is cancelled to be replaced by this 2003 model (formerly called the Terminator - name was dropped because it sounds violent and could require royalty fees) later this Spring. This will apparently still be on the old Fox chassis as the dew98 lite based version isn't due out until next year.
If this is true (would BON lie??) then we should get some official word within the next month or so with the car showing up at the next car show.
With so many new superchargers floating around Ford and Jag, what are the chances one might land in the LS? (stop grinning, Brian)
I changed out the OEM Filter and put in my K & N filter and then just sat it in place.
I did notice an awesome growl coming from the engine compartment at low RPM's from the intake and a little better pickup.
As far as the critters go - I just don't want to floor it sometime and have a nest get sucked up into my K & N filter - ruining it... although they say it works better with more grime on it - so maybe a mouse nest is just the thing it needs!
I have owned my LS for about 7 weeks and I think it is a great car. However, due to my height 6'2" and 59 year old knees, I am having great difficulty driving the car without experiencing a lot of pain. Here are some of the reasons and my solutions. 1) the seat does not travel far enough back. With all of the room in the rear seat area, why can't the seat be made to travel further back? (Question to Lincoln engineers). 2) The front of the seat does not provide enough support to my thighs. I wrote to this forum once and said that the gas peddle was to light and if I relaxed my foot the gas peddle went right to the floor. This is not a gas peddle problem as I discovered. If I support my thighs with a pillow or other device, I have no trouble with the gas peddle. I had an interior repair specialist add padding to the very front of the seat. It helped but he can not add enough. So I use the pillow. However, two inches more travel on the seat would probably solve this problem. 3) The break peddle is very narrow and the steering wheel column very big. My knees can not get under the column so to stop I need to approach the peddle from the side (right or left foot). Stoping with my left foot is easier but still difficult. What happened to the wide break peddles they used to have on cars? This would allow me to step on the peddle without comming in from an angle. (My knees do not like the angle approach). I am working with someone to see if a wide break peddel could be retrofitted on the LS. 4) What is it with the handle above the driver door. I have hit my head so many times on that handle that it is no longer just a discomfort- it hurts. I will have it removed and figure out what to do with the remaining holes. Note to Lincoln engineers - Try a handle that retracts flat with the headliner like many other less expensive cars. I think I could affort the additional $1.00 in cost. Of course, if the seat moved back another 2 inches, this problem would go away.
(Another note to Lincoln engineers). I love the car and I do not mind applying a small amount of changes to drive the car. However, what would be so hard about using some of the room in the rear seat area to make the car comfortable for people like me? The seat as designed goes so far foward that I can not imagine anyone driving the car in the full foward position. Can't you just shift the travel to the back?
January 28 Automotive news shows $200 increase on LS Base V6 Auto, Premium V6 Auto, Base V8 Auto and Premium V8 Auto. No increase on LSE models. If you have been thinking LS, purchasing or leasing from dealer stock will save you 2 C-notes.
My 2001 V8 Sport has 20,000 miles and has had no problems. I luv this car. Free maintenance for 36/36,000 is outstanding.
I owned an MGB ('65) that had far more leg room than the LS, and have wondered if there's some kind of hands-on (involving washers, shims, or whatever) modification to the seat mechanism that makes it more suitable to those of us who wish for more leg room. I've tried various seat reclining positions, and still feel that the legroom in the LS isn't much better than what I endured on my Miatias, both of which required seat reclining. The LS is supposed to be a "big" sedan, on the order of the 7-series BMW.
I used to own an Eagle (Chrysler) Vision. It was big inside. I could put my bicycle in the back seat (yeah, I had to take the front wheel off), and never felt cramped. Neither did my back-seat passengers. Part of why I'm not as gung-ho about the Infiniti G35 as I might otherwise be is that they don't appear to offer fold-down rear seats. If I can't carry my bike in the car (INSIDE the car), I'm not a happy camper. It's sometimes surprising what features really matter. For the new readers, the Vision was a misery in terms of reliability, but got 2+ mpg better than the LS in all similar conditions. Lincoln has work to do.
Deadline for room reservations at the Doubletree Inn at our special event pricing is Feb.1.
If you haven't reserved a room and are attending you better get your rear in gear or pay a higher price. So far we only have 8 rooms booked out of 20. Once Feb.1 comes and goes the remaining rooms will be released and you'll be paying a higher price.
I know based on emails I have received that there are more of you planning on attending so hurry up and reserve your rooms.
cdnpinhead, Do you suppose that many of the automobile companies hire anyone over 5'8" to design their cars? I have never owned a car that had ample leg room, even my 1969 Chevy Impala, which was a big car. I do have a 1992 Ford Tempo GLS that is far more comfortable for me to drive then the LS and it is a small car. Do you think that there is any hope for the tall driver in the world of the small automotive designer? Tony
If the seat went any further back it would leave NO legroom for the rear. Cars are designed for the average or slightly above average driver. Apparently you are not average. I haven't heard anyone else have the types of problems you have. I'm not saying you don't have them or they're not a problem, just that you have a very unusual problem. How did you fail to notice this in the test drive? I hope you get your problems fixed. Next time I would suggest an extended test drive so this won't happen again.
In sitting in both 2000 and 2001 LSes, I've noticed that the 2000s have a little bit more front seat legroom than the 2001s. I suspect there was an adjustment made based on owner comments about a lack of room in the rear seat passenger area in the 2000s.
Brian, you must have a good point there, as I'm 6'2" myself, and my 2000 LS has enough legroom in front. If more support is needed for the upper leg, possibly you could tilt the lower seat cushion "up", and then "lean back" the upper seat cushion to get a comfortable setting.
I had my LS Sport in for the 10,000 mile service yesterday and mentioned the stall problem I had several weeks ago. The service rep said she had not heard of the problem, but that if it happens again to take it to the nearest Lincoln Service and have it checked immediately.
She said the computer will tell them what happened if it was within the last 5 starts. Do not know if this is true or not, but if it is, then it is worth knowing.
I spent a lot of time test driving the 2000 LS in the summer of 2000. I was satisfied with the front leg room at the time. Brian, changing the travel on the font seat to accomodate people complaining about the rear leg room does not make sense. The front seat is adjustable to allow additional rear passanger room. Reducing the travel on the front seat does not increase the AVAILABLE room in the back seat. It only reduces the room in the front seat. If Lincoln changed the front seat travel based on these complaints, they made a mistake. I did make a fundamental error when buying my car. I should have rented an LS for a week instead of relying on the test drive I had in the summer of 2000. Now what do I do? If I get rid of my LS (and take a big loss in $$$), what do I buy? There is nothing else out there that provides the driving excitment and the bang for the buck that the LS provides. One final note. I have been approached by two men who liked my car and asked me if I would recommend it to them. They were both a little taller then me. I said I would think twice about it. I suggested they spend time dring the car a pay particular attention to the front leg room. I hate to not recommend this car to anyone. I think that with the exception of the driver space, the car is well designed and drives as well or better then any car out there.
I want to buy a few male and female pin inserts that fit the connectors on the LS, specifically C300. They seem to be the type used in most of the LS's connectors and are probably a standard Ford part. Based on my experience with parts departments it will help a lot if I have a part number...does anyone know what I need to ask for.
Just a thought...you mention that it will start ok if it only sits for 15 or so minutes and any longer results in the flooding symptoms. Since everything checked OK my guess (which they probably wouldn't have checked for) is that since the fuel system remains pressurized (at least I think it does on this vehicle) after you shut down the engine, one or more injectors may be leaking fuel...the longer it sets the more fuel that accumulates in the manifold. You are probably reaching a point after it sets for the longer duration that it encounters a much too rich mixture when you try to start it. See if they can perform a leak-down down test on the injectors.
Hi All: Ok. Still working on this mobile video project. (If it seems like its taking forever, it is, as Im doing it part time, and learning and rethinking things in the process). I removed the rear section of the front seats. There are two black push connectors at the bottom. The pointed arrow-type ends go into drilled metal holes located inside the seat, in the seat frame, and the round-head portion slides into slots on the actual seatback panel that removes. The pointed ends have several "fins" that are angled on the sides, and are obviously one-way pieces that are meant to be used one-tme only. I checked with my local dealership, and the parts guy stated that Lincoln doesnt sell these black connectors separately, that they are only inculded when you buy the entire back panel. Sounds suspect to me, as these pieces easily slide out of the slot of the backpanel. Anyone have any ideas or suggestion? I checked my local Pep Boys and Trak Auto for similiar connectors, but no luck. I could *possibly* reuse two of the four (two from each seat), but would prefer to put in brand new connectors to avoid any rattle issues. Suggestions are greatly appreciated..
Not sure if anyone is interested, but HarborFreight tools (harborfreighttools.com) carries a universal code reader that *appears* that it might work for our cars. Part number is 46030-0MEA, $49.99.
Sounds like a challenge to get those connectors. You might have to contact the seat manufacturer. Maybe Visteon or Honeywell. Or is this an electrical connector? Try www.mouser.com, www.partsexpress.com or www.mcmelectronics.com. All great little known sources for dealers and technicians that make Radio Shack look like an amateur's store.
Find another parts guy. Mine stocks loads of those things. Just ask yourself, what does the service dept do when one of their techs breaks one of them? The only one my guy can't get, yet, are those screw type that that hold down the cover over the headlights/airbox. I've had to pay and received them gratis before. IIRC, a package of 4 of those push-pin type (the ones that hold on the intake trim piece) was about $5. You might also try a Ford dealer.
I've encountered the same trouble with F/M/L cars, myself. I'm 6' and I have long legs. I learned to drive in the family '84 Grand Marquis and that BIG car had shamefully short seat travel. I literally had to tilt the front of the seat the whole way up - which in turn also tilted the back of the seat (since it was one unit.)(My '88 Topaz did have move front seat room, too.)
For the LS I imagine that you have already tried tilting up the front of the seat, the whole way and the seat back - backwards some, but that is the only thing I can think of to help...
I have no trouble staying comfortable in the LS, but do wish there was more travel backwards. When I use the gas pedal, my size 13 shoe is almost completely angled sideways and I have the heel mark in the middle of the mat, to prove it. My knee usually rests against the plastic beside the ashtray. I could very easily imagine how it would be uncomfortable for you - with bad knees!
Reminds me of my college days selling furniture. We had some cheap wingback chairs that we got for $65 so we were blowing them out for $99 as a promotion. Couldn't sell a single one. So the manager marks them up to $300. Sold 3 the next week.
Perception is everything. I bet they sell more at that price than the $69. Anyone who didn't know the history on them probably saw the price and thought they were crappy tires.
Thanks for the info. I have tried everything including tilting the seat. I have had extra padding put in the front of the seat to provide extra support. The only thing left is to find someone who could literally redesign the rail system on the seat to allow it to travel farther. I do not know where to go to have this done. but I am getting desperate enough to start looking. I can not imagine driving this car with size 13 shoes. Mine are only size 11 and that is bad enough. I am glad that you find the driving comfortable for you. I will figure out a way to get comfortable in my LS. Tony
I have owned my 200 LS for over 30 months now and find no problem with the front seat leg room Rear seat is another matter altogether. I am 6'3" , have a size 13 foot and have no problems driving the car, hitting my head or any of the other issues mentioned in the previous posts. My advice, try the car for yourself and see if it fits you.
I am in the market now for some tires and I am looking for some recommendations. I like the firehawks but wouldn't mind something with a little curb appeal. as always thanks for the help.
For those who have moved their front seats all the way forward. . .what's up with that? Does anyone really believe that someone needs the seat in that position? For those few who have discussed this over the past several posts, I'm inclined to believe that the marketing folks (has anyone been following Dilbert?) have decided that the mind-numbed masses who buy cars (as defined by the selfsame marketing folks) run the front seat all the way back before they evaluate the rear-seat legroom.
Anyone else have an alternate theory?
If my front seat ran back three inches farther, and couldn't go those three inches forward, I'd be perfectly content. Granted, when the seat was all the way back, only amputees could sit in the back seat, but are they any more deformed than those who can sit in the front with the seat all the way forward today?
I procured one of our 300 thread count bed sheets to test for durabilty. Actually I stole it from my wifes collection cut it up and used it a wash cloth, then used another piece to wax with and closed the deal with using several to remove the wax. Wow a job those sheets do.
At $115 price, no deal. It looks like I have an excuse to buy my "dream" tires - Yokohama AVS Sports with that radical tread design. It's a favorite with the M3 crowd.
..actually, a more correct term would be black rivet thingies. :-) I did visit another Lincoln dealer this evening, and received the same prognosis, but with a bit more assistance. On the parts diagram, the LS seatback (the hard part that comes off the back) has a partnumber which includes the lower black pop-rivets. No part number for these rivets themselves. I showed one to the parts guy, who went through the LS and Jaguar S class (its a Lincoln/Jag dealer) parts bins, but couldnt find anything close. He took my number and told me he would call Ford to see if he could find anything.
What type of tires do you want? How important is raw dry cornering ability versus all-season performance, ride quality and treadwear? How much are you willing to spend?
The Firehawks are still the cheapest at $115. Not super in the wet stuff but great dry grip. The new OEM tire is the Michelin MXM4. Good all-around tire. I think they're around $175 on tirerack.com. Even Jaguar switched from Pirelli to Michelin MXM4 on the S-type.
If you can spend a little more ($212 each at tirerack.com or Costco) the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S is a superb all-season tire. Very good (but not the absolute best) for dry cornering and absolutely fantastic in the wet stuff. Does ok on snow and mud too. Very quiet and smooth. Treadwear rating is 400 which is very good for a performance tire. Not sure how this translates to miles on the LS but the Firehawks had a rating of 500 and they're lasting between 25K and 30K for most folks. This tire uses 3 different compounds in the tread - a strip down the middle for wet traction, a strip on each side for all-season mud and snow traction and a third compound on the shoulders for cornering grip. So far I love them (as if you couldn't tell). But they are pricey.
Go to tirerack.com and do a size search on 235/50/17 and you'll see all the choices. You can also use 245/45/17 size tires which will give you over 30 choices.
..A lot of guys are ditching the Firestones (Im assuming we are talking about the Sport Packed 17 inch Firehawks here) at 25-30k, but there are a few of us riding them out longer. Ive got my fingers crossed that no snow hits us again this winter in the DC area, because my Firestones now have over 47k on them. The replacements are sitting in my closet as we speak. Im probably about 2-3k from hitting the wear bars, and although the current ones are still doing fine in the wet and dry, Im sure the new ones will be a dramatic improvement once I get them put on.
I got the Yokohama AVS dB's in 245/45/17. They were $720 out the door at Discount Tire. So far, with just under 2K and a gully washer last night, I like them a lot! Dry grip is outstanding and the wet, in all but the worst conditions, was excellent. I did slip a little last night, going uphill in a downpour at 80mph. When I slowed down to 65, there was no hint of hydroplaning. www.tirerack.com also has surverys for selected tires.
Be careful, and know something about what you're buying. Bottom-dollar imported stuff, almost all from China. Some good deals for the weekend mechanic, and some absolutely unusable junk. Anything more complex than simple hand tools should be regarded with suspicion. Their "precision" measuring tools, for example, are a bad joke. Caveat emptor.
ronniepooh, I believe you have a 2000 model and you might already be aware that Johnson Controls virtually made the entire interior. How you get parts from them I don't know.
I just got off the phone with the Cal Club SCCA Autocross coordinator and we have 20 reserved spots for the Saturday SCCA SOLO 2 autocross. We have 14 people so far that are registered which means there are 6 spots open. Once these spots fill up, any members that want to participate in the autocross will have to take their chances on any openings as we cannot reserve more than 20 spots since this is an open event.
I'll be going over details either at Thu. night Happy Hour or some time during Friday at PAG HQ. It will be an early start on Saturday since we will get some private instruction before the event and will be at the Speedway at 7:30am. Four run groups will give everyone at least 6 runs. This will be a work/run event which means that you also get to play the part of course worker(nothing more involved than cone chasing, unless you have the misfortune to be doing this while stanny1 rearranges the course :>)
Alternate Saturday event is a tour of the Petersen Museum and hopefully the vault if the museum director is available.
Comments
I had a Taurus company car a few years ago that did exactly the same thing and it was a bad injector. It was basically dumping in too much fuel.
In any case, it is hard to imagine that there is no clear diagnosis or no fix. I don't know if the fuel mixture calibration is different on 2001s than on 2000s, but mine starts on the first crank whether it is 100 degrees or 25 below. If I had your problem, I would probably seek a 2nd opinion at a different dealer.
So fire the bean counters too. Didn't Henry Ford sort of prove that if you make enough M5's, they get awfully cheap to make. It's just a matter of making enough to lower the price. BMW doesn't want to try. Henry would say "Any color you want, as long as it's black". I'll take a black one!
If the car is brand new - give it a couple of thousand miles to break in - then you'll notice a difference. Mine still feels like it is breaking in with almost 30,000 miles! I made the switch to Mobil 1 at 15,000 miles.
Speaking of the open snorkel on the front of the 2002 airbox... is anybody worried about critters have easy-access to build nests in the airbox? (It really doesn't take them long...) With mine sitting over the winter - I AM! I'm thinking a little mesh screen might be helpful - but hate to cut down on airflow.
I did see several LS's on the way to and from Saginaw, MI.
With all this "German" talk on the board lately - I have to put a plug in for visiting the 'German' town of Frankenmuth, in Michigan - great family-style chicken dinners at the Bavarian Inn.
The cones and I will see you in Irvine
Artie
Ok, I picked up the car and here's what my receipt states:
Let run for 20 mins and shut down for one hour, verified customer complaint of hard starting. Car will not start unless the gas pedal is pressed to floor. Car acted like it was flooded. WDS and check for codes - none. Check fuel presure and pressure drop - ok. Check injector flow test - ok, Monitor PIDS - ok. Perform ignition system test - ok. Called hotline for assistance - was told there is a SSM for concern between 30 and 40 degrees. Vehicle will flood. Possible calibration issue.
I only use Mobil 93 octance gas. I filled the tank with 11 gallons of the 89 octane to see if there is a problem with fuel atomization making the car hard to start.
The only problem with what Ford is looking at is here in Chicago it's been in the upper 50's/low 60's for the past 3-4 days and the problem is still there. You can start the car in two seconds if it only sits for about 15-20 minutes after being warmed up. Longer than that and you have the starting issue.
If anyone has any other thought, please share them.
Thanks,
Matt
As for the cold start issue, we are WELL aware of the problem and are working frantically on the solution. I'm very glad Matt had the foresight to "floor" the accelerator pedal - most complaints are accompanied by a dead battery and wet sparkplugs. I have forwarded Matt's posts to my management to see if they want to look at the car - we've had no luck in repeating the problem back in Detroit.
Just as a side note, we try to test and develop under every imaginable condition using many types of fuels. Unfortunately, we cannot know every combination of conditions a car can be exposed to as in Matt's case. Sometimes, things lie this can happen
Matt, e-mail me at sdougla2@ford.com, we do care about your problem and are working to fix it.
Scot
Can you say "390 hp/ 390 ft/lbs torque?"
Can you say "T56 six-speed manual?"
Can you say "$35K ?"
That's what BON is saying. Supposedly there's a news embargo until Feb. 6 but what do they care? The 2002 Cobra is cancelled to be replaced by this 2003 model (formerly called the Terminator - name was dropped because it sounds violent and could require royalty fees) later this Spring. This will apparently still be on the old Fox chassis as the dew98 lite based version isn't due out until next year.
If this is true (would BON lie??) then we should get some official word within the next month or so with the car showing up at the next car show.
With so many new superchargers floating around Ford and Jag, what are the chances one might land in the LS? (stop grinning, Brian)
I changed out the OEM Filter and put in my K & N filter and then just sat it in place.
I did notice an awesome growl coming from the engine compartment at low RPM's from the intake and a little better pickup.
As far as the critters go - I just don't want to floor it sometime and have a nest get sucked up into my K & N filter - ruining it... although they say it works better with more grime on it - so maybe a mouse nest is just the thing it needs!
1) the seat does not travel far enough back. With all of the room in the rear seat area, why can't the seat be made to travel further back? (Question to Lincoln engineers).
2) The front of the seat does not provide enough support to my thighs. I wrote to this forum once and said that the gas peddle was to light and if I relaxed my foot the gas peddle went right to the floor. This is not a gas peddle problem as I discovered. If I support my thighs with a pillow or other device, I have no trouble with the gas peddle. I had an interior repair specialist add padding to the very front of the seat. It helped but he can not add enough. So I use the pillow. However, two inches more travel on the seat would probably solve this problem.
3) The break peddle is very narrow and the steering wheel column very big. My knees can not get under the column so to stop I need to approach the peddle from the side (right or left foot). Stoping with my left foot is easier but still difficult. What happened to the wide break peddles they used to have on cars? This would allow me to step on the peddle without comming in from an angle. (My knees do not like the angle approach). I am working with someone to see if a wide break peddel could be retrofitted on the LS.
4) What is it with the handle above the driver door. I have hit my head so many times on that handle that it is no longer just a discomfort- it hurts. I will have it removed and figure out what to do with the remaining holes. Note to Lincoln engineers - Try a handle that retracts flat with the headliner like many other less expensive cars. I think I could affort the additional $1.00 in cost. Of course, if the seat moved back another 2 inches, this problem would go away.
(Another note to Lincoln engineers). I love the car and I do not mind applying a small amount of changes to drive the car. However, what would be so hard about using some of the room in the rear seat area to make the car comfortable for people like me? The seat as designed goes so far foward that I can not imagine anyone driving the car in the full foward position. Can't you just shift the travel to the back?
My 2001 V8 Sport has 20,000 miles and has had no problems. I luv this car. Free maintenance for 36/36,000 is outstanding.
I owned an MGB ('65) that had far more leg room than the LS, and have wondered if there's some kind of hands-on (involving washers, shims, or whatever) modification to the seat mechanism that makes it more suitable to those of us who wish for more leg room. I've tried various seat reclining positions, and still feel that the legroom in the LS isn't much better than what I endured on my Miatias, both of which required seat reclining. The LS is supposed to be a "big" sedan, on the order of the 7-series BMW.
I used to own an Eagle (Chrysler) Vision. It was big inside. I could put my bicycle in the back seat (yeah, I had to take the front wheel off), and never felt cramped. Neither did my back-seat passengers. Part of why I'm not as gung-ho about the Infiniti G35 as I might otherwise be is that they don't appear to offer fold-down rear seats. If I can't carry my bike in the car (INSIDE the car), I'm not a happy camper. It's sometimes surprising what features really matter. For the new readers, the Vision was a misery in terms of reliability, but got 2+ mpg better than the LS in all similar conditions. Lincoln has work to do.
Just a few (more) thoughts.
If you haven't reserved a room and are attending you better get your rear in gear or pay a higher price. So far we only have 8 rooms booked out of 20. Once Feb.1 comes and goes the remaining rooms will be released and you'll be paying a higher price.
I know based on emails I have received that there are more of you planning on attending so hurry up and reserve your rooms.
Brian
Do you suppose that many of the automobile companies hire anyone over 5'8" to design their cars? I have never owned a car that had ample leg room, even my 1969 Chevy Impala, which was a big car. I do have a 1992 Ford Tempo GLS that is far more comfortable for me to drive then the LS and it is a small car. Do you think that there is any hope for the tall driver in the world of the small automotive designer?
Tony
If the seat went any further back it would leave NO legroom for the rear. Cars are designed for the average or slightly above average driver. Apparently you are not average. I haven't heard anyone else have the types of problems you have. I'm not saying you don't have them or they're not a problem, just that you have a very unusual problem. How did you fail to notice this in the test drive? I hope you get your problems fixed. Next time I would suggest an extended test drive so this won't happen again.
Brian
If more support is needed for the upper leg, possibly you could tilt the lower seat cushion "up", and then "lean back" the upper seat cushion to get a comfortable setting.
She said the computer will tell them what happened if it was within the last 5 starts. Do not know if this is true or not, but if it is, then it is worth knowing.
I did make a fundamental error when buying my car. I should have rented an LS for a week instead of relying on the test drive I had in the summer of 2000. Now what do I do? If I get rid of my LS (and take a big loss in $$$), what do I buy? There is nothing else out there that provides the driving excitment and the bang for the buck that the LS provides.
One final note. I have been approached by two men who liked my car and asked me if I would recommend it to them. They were both a little taller then me. I said I would think twice about it. I suggested they spend time dring the car a pay particular attention to the front leg room. I hate to not recommend this car to anyone. I think that with the exception of the driver space, the car is well designed and drives as well or better then any car out there.
Ok. Still working on this mobile video project. (If it seems like its taking forever, it is, as Im doing it part time, and learning and rethinking things in the process).
I removed the rear section of the front seats. There are two black push connectors at the bottom. The pointed arrow-type ends go into drilled metal holes located inside the seat, in the seat frame, and the round-head portion slides into slots on the actual seatback panel that removes. The pointed ends have several "fins" that are angled on the sides, and are obviously one-way pieces that are meant to be used one-tme only. I checked with my local dealership, and the parts guy stated that Lincoln doesnt sell these black connectors separately, that they are only inculded when you buy the entire back panel. Sounds suspect to me, as these pieces easily slide out of the slot of the backpanel.
Anyone have any ideas or suggestion? I checked my local Pep Boys and Trak Auto for similiar connectors, but no luck. I could *possibly* reuse two of the four (two from each seat), but would prefer to put in brand new connectors to avoid any rattle issues.
Suggestions are greatly appreciated..
For the LS I imagine that you have already tried tilting up the front of the seat, the whole way and the seat back - backwards some, but that is the only thing I can think of to help...
I have no trouble staying comfortable in the LS, but do wish there was more travel backwards. When I use the gas pedal, my size 13 shoe is almost completely angled sideways and I have the heel mark in the middle of the mat, to prove it. My knee usually rests against the plastic beside the ashtray. I could very easily imagine how it would be uncomfortable for you - with bad knees!
Perception is everything. I bet they sell more at that price than the $69. Anyone who didn't know the history on them probably saw the price and thought they were crappy tires.
Tony
Oh almost forgot I have the 17" wheels.
Anyone else have an alternate theory?
If my front seat ran back three inches farther, and couldn't go those three inches forward, I'd be perfectly content. Granted, when the seat was all the way back, only amputees could sit in the back seat, but are they any more deformed than those who can sit in the front with the seat all the way forward today?
Brian
The Firehawks are still the cheapest at $115. Not super in the wet stuff but great dry grip. The new OEM tire is the Michelin MXM4. Good all-around tire. I think they're around $175 on tirerack.com. Even Jaguar switched from Pirelli to Michelin MXM4 on the S-type.
If you can spend a little more ($212 each at tirerack.com or Costco) the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S is a superb all-season tire. Very good (but not the absolute best) for dry cornering and absolutely fantastic in the wet stuff. Does ok on snow and mud too. Very quiet and smooth. Treadwear rating is 400 which is very good for a performance tire. Not sure how this translates to miles on the LS but the Firehawks had a rating of 500 and they're lasting between 25K and 30K for most folks. This tire uses 3 different compounds in the tread - a strip down the middle for wet traction, a strip on each side for all-season mud and snow traction and a third compound on the shoulders for cornering grip. So far I love them (as if you couldn't tell). But they are pricey.
Go to tirerack.com and do a size search on 235/50/17 and you'll see all the choices. You can also use 245/45/17 size tires which will give you over 30 choices.
Scott
LLSOC Member
http://www.johnsoncontrols.com/CorpPR/Releases/asg/release157.asp
I'll be going over details either at Thu. night Happy Hour or some time during Friday at PAG HQ. It will be an early start on Saturday since we will get some private instruction before the event and will be at the Speedway at 7:30am. Four run groups will give everyone at least 6 runs. This will be a work/run event which means that you also get to play the part of course worker(nothing more involved than cone chasing, unless you have the misfortune to be doing this while stanny1 rearranges the course :>)
Alternate Saturday event is a tour of the Petersen Museum and hopefully the vault if the museum director is available.
Brian