Yup I have not received the LS Mania Souvenir Set yet. As usual I am the one left out but such is life. Maybe today I will get it. Waiting to see the group photo. The clock is nice but the picture is what I value. Its a moment in time with other people that feel the same way I do. Now how often do we get that in life! Clocks come and go as does time but the memories......
Just got the call - my Autumn Red Dura-Get is at the dealers now!! Gotta go ... Oh, it's raining like heck here, so I'll get a chance to check the auto-wipers on my pre-delivery drive.
You finally made it. I bet you feel super...and you should...you've made a great choice.
But don't walk into the dealer with "rose colored glasses" on. When you go to pick up your new baby, make sure you inspect it closely, especially for paint defects.
You may have noticed that I didn't go out and verify all combinations and permutations of this thing again. Just like Pavlov's dogs, I can learn too ;-)
I do have a pretty good memory of the results when I was experimenting to figure out whether there was a relationship between the intermittent trunk lamp switch and the problem I had with the PATS transceiver. It turned out they were independent, and the transceiver problem was simply a poor connection between the cable and the connector.
This morning I drove over to a large Ford dealer on the West side of Phoenix (in Glendale) to let Ford technicians install a new black box (YABB) in my LS as part of a nationwide study of various Ford vehicles. I received a card in the mail from a company Ford hired to coordinate this and I responded that I would be willing to be part of the study. A team of technicians from Michigan were there installing these boxes in various Ford vehicles. I also filled out a little questionaire to fill in some details about me.
I was told the box has a cell phone in it, and about once a month it will call Ford and download a bunch of data about all the engine conditions and experiences that have occurred. I'm supposed to have the box removed after 12-18 months after the study completes.
I'll be interested if I can learn what general things Ford expects to learn from this. It is a different world than when I got my first 1939 Chevvy!
So the new LS came in today--why the heck aren't you at your keyboard telling us all about it? I mean, you can't be out DRIVING it, can you? Or maybe you and Mrs. Jewel are working out the "Who gets to drive it today?" schedule...
Note to all: Artie and I have now proven conclusively that the way to insure delivery of your Mania clock is to put your LS in the driveway and wash it! The UPS truck will be there momentarily, and the hose-yourself-down part isn't even required.
George, it's been 8 hours since your post! Well....... AS Jlinc said, you can't possibly be driving! Especially in the rain! It'll get all wet! Then you'll have to wash it! Oh yea, I forgot. If you can't drive, you might as well wash. You'll still be spending quality time with your new arrival ;-).
By now you're probably driving the one of your choice, but thought I'd throw my two cents in: I was trying to decide between the v6 or v8 and chose the v6 with sport package. The sport shift is great; works like a charm. For the type of driving I do, I didn't need the v8. Took my first long trip 2 weeks ago; going up the "grapevine" in Southern California, set the cruise control and literally "cruised" over it. The car stayed at the speed I set it, whether we were going up or downhill. I'm completely satisfied and would buy the v6 again.
Hey, all, thanks for all the congrats! I went down there and looked my LS over with a microscope. Passed with flying colors. It had 3.2 miles on it when I climbed in and took it out for a ride. And a nice, smooth ride it is. Better than I remembered. Brought it back with 20.1 miles on it.
For some reason, the car had not been PDI'd yet. I made sure to check fluid levels before I drove it just in case. So I had to leave it there to get all the prep work done, install the mudflaps I bought and take care of a couple of nits I noticed.
I signed all the papers and arranged to pick it up Thurs after work. What's another 2 days after waiting since December 11? :>)
Hey, you're gonna' love that car. It's even fun to WASH (imagine that!) I got a pearl-white v6 which has taken on her own personality. I call her "Miss Pearl". The kids know that if they eat in my car, Miss Pearl will subsequently "eject" them :-) She only likes it when I drive her, not my husband or teenagers. Okay, okay, I'm a little obsessed, but I waited a long time for this car and I'm gonna' enjoy "her".
Hello everyone.I'm new to this board and I own a 2000 LS-V8(non-sport). I recently had the tranny reflash done(01-01-05) and I noticed a big difference in improvement. I'm still baffled by the humming noise in the rear, since I have taken the car to the dealer on several occasion for the same problem. To my understanding, others complained about the same problem but at this time no solution has been offered. Does anyone else have this same problem? I already had the rear shaft replaced and the technician also adjusted the weights on the exhaust system. The humming noise did quiet down but when driving at a speed of 51mph the humming/vibrating noise is noticeable.
The 51 MPH drone has been around since the beginning of LSs. I first noticed it in the first couple hundred miles of driving our LS-8/Sport. I thought it was an exhaust resonance, but others think it is a vibration in the half-shafts. I guess it occurs both in V-6's and v-8's, so that sort of shoots my exhaust resonance theory. However, it seems the folks who've had the half-shafts replaced by ones with a new design haven't been totally satisfied. I've heard the sound may not be as pronounced at 51 MPH, but it shows up over a broader range of speeds.
I'm not convinced Lincoln has really identified the whole cause. On my LS I consider it to be sufficiently minor, and so localized to a narrow speed range, that I've just decided to ignore it. If Lincoln comes up with something that seems to REALLY explain it and really FIX it, I'll probably get it done.
It does seem to be RPM related, so if I shift to 4th at 51 MPH, the sound goes away. That would seem to argue against the half shaft resonance unless some engine vibration at that RPM travels through the driveshaft or something; but wouldn't the V8 and V6 behave very differently? I haven't heard about any explanation or solution that makes sense. Fortunately, it isn't really very loud or noticeable unless you're sort of listening for it.
Rene, I agree with your assessment entirely. My 2001 LS8 does exactly the same thing. For me, its a little more than just noticeable. I really wish I could get rid of it especially since it occurs at such an important speed.
Anyone else have any more info on this condition? Mr. Cupka, are you guys studying this yet?
Still looking for help in how to remove the dash that covers the instrument panel to locate the source of a very annoying squeak. Can anyone help? Thanks Kevin
is evident on my V8 Sport under light acceleration or maintaining speed at 51 mph, but not when coasting or heavy acceleration. In my car, the same noise is also heard at 41-42 mph in D4, which I use a lot around town. This makes me think it is RPM dependent, not half-shafts. Like others, this is not a big issue with me, but I would get it fixed if there was a known remedy that was not too invasive.
I took my LS to one of my state's lovely emission testing stations today. They now spin the wheels on rollers to run the cars in drive up to highway speed. Well the bozo's set my car up for front wheel drive. As they were putting the wheel chocks on the rear wheels, I started banging on the glass from the waiting room and yelling at them "its rear wheel drive!" Got into an argument with the idiots who didn't want to believe me. I had visions of my LS jumping over the wheel chocks and smashing the open driver's door and underside in the process.
The rear end drone has been extensively discussed in the past. It will only be present when the torque converter is locked. It is the beating of the natural resonant frequency of the half shafts with other parts in the drive line that have a resonant frequency close to that of the half-shafts. I did have my half shafts replaced. Like others it did reduce but not eliminate the drone. My understanding was that there were other changes that needed to be made to completely eliminate the drone. These other changes could not be retrofitted to existing LS's. Does anyone with 2001 LS's have the drone, or has it been finally fixed.
I hadn't thought of this before, but in addition to having to know which end of the car has the drive wheels, you also need to disable AdvanceTrac to, don't you? The AdvanceTrac won't be at all happy with the rear wheels zooming away on a roller while the front wheels aren't turning! I wonder what it would do? I'd think it would throttle way back and even stop the rear wheels from turning.
Allright guys I didn't need to wash my LS. I got the shipment, apparently it was at the management office for my Condo. The UPS man did not leave a sticky to let me know it was there. I just stopped in yesterday cause I had a hunch and Voila! Thank you Jim for the Clock and the Base as well as the Picture.
By the way Mike and Mr. Hi Ho Silver I will try to send you the pictures tonight. Sorry but been real hectic.
Regarding the LS V6 Manual. Is it the first Getrag Ford has had in its vehicles. If it is then the LS has one more first for it. Hopefully the the alliance betweend ford and Getrag will solidify the development of an LS V8 Manual.
Regarding the Panic Attack. Why is it Car Mechanics assume we are idiots and question us when we tell them how it is. The burden of proof is on them to show us differently. After all we are familiar with our car. Now I know there are alot of idiot car owners out there but apparently also mechanics or inspectioners cause let me tell you I can tell you right off the bat which cars are rear wheel drive and which ones aren't. And if not, then all it takes is a quick look under the car. Man I tell ya.
Would someone kindly shed some light on the power rear window problem. Last week my right rear window broke. Is Lincoln repairing both windows or just the broken one? Is there a recall? Or any kind of TSB. I will appreciate any help as my car is at the dealership at this time. Thank you. David Miller (954) 943-3200 ext. 112.
As stated above, I have a 2001 (V8 build 9/00) with the drone.
As Rene and Mike stated in posts 914 and 919, my drone occurs at 51mph only in D5. It is also slightly noticeable at 42mph in D4. It is only apparent during light acceleration or while maintaining speed. It is not present while coasting or hard acceleration.
To me, it sounds like it is emanating from below the firewall around the transmission bell housing which would agree with your statement that it is torque-converter related.
In the March issue fo Car and Driver several letters to the editor seemed to indicate that the new BMW 3-series is not enamoring itself with the enthusiast crowd. Seems that BMW appears to be focusing on moving the 3-series into a more luxury standard as opposed to keeping it a more sporting sedan. The letter writers were very vocal in their discontent. Maybe they'll switch over to the LS?
Also in the same issue, an ad for a BMW 525i. First time I've ever seen a BMW 5-series with the price listed. Is BMW getting worried about Lincoln?
Are usually different animals. But just like any other profession, there are those that think they know everything and will debate a false statement regardless if the proof is literally under their nose. For those that might be interested, I have a news article featuring some ivy league phd discussing how incompetent people usually don't know how incompetent they really are - sort of a paradox. Send me an e-mail if you're interested and I'll forward it (I have it framed on my wall). Fortunately, GA now exempts new cars for the first two years so I shouldn't need to debate the smog inspector before my lease is over. I too would be interested to hear what happens when Mr. Smog kicks it on the dyno with AdvanceTrac active. In my mechanic days the test equipment guys would tell all sorts of neat stories about wrecked cars/equipment when techs load tested (power braked) ABS cars during an analysis to find that the ABS sensed a lock (throttle applied, not in P or N, and 0 mph at the wheels) and launched the car into the console and whatever else happened to be up front. Not pretty...
I'm a little curious about how these guys (C&D) go about evaluating cars. The review states that they opted for a LS Sport. OK. The photos clearly show that vehicle doesn't have the chrome accents on the bumper, and is equipped with the SST. OK, I guess they got a sport. Then what gives with the wheels? They are clearly 16 inch rims (they state that they also equipped it with Blizzak snows for the winter). When they make disparaging comments on the overall ride and handling aspects of the sport tuned suspension, are they refering to their experiences with the 16 inch wheels & Blizzaks? As Jon Crocker, and other Lincoln folks have informed us, the suspension characteristics of the LS sport is highly dependent upon the wheels and somewhat dependent upon rubber. C&D doesn't seem to think it's important enough to mention which wheel/tire configuration they used when making their critical evaluation of the ride/handling aspects of the vehicle.
I test drove an LS V8 last week and fell head over heals! I will probably lease an 01 by the end of March...I keep hearing about a FLASH transmission? problem..some kind of software glitch?...exactly what is that and does the problem happen on 01's? Also I am a little skeptical about ordering a moonroof...my dealer purposely orders them because they bring a higher resale price for leases, but has anyone experienced leaks or noise from this hole cut out of the roof? I have talked to Brian (great guy!) earlier and actually went out to rent a Towne car to see if it worked for me ...it didn't. I currently drive a 99 Continental and will be turning that over to my wife, while I go zoom, zoom in the "little one"... And finally if any of you current LS owner out there could do it all over again what would you put on this time that you didn't or couldn't afford the first time...just curious... helps to know all the variables from experienced owners before I tally up the sheet and write a check. I didn't think I would be so performance oriented, the Continental has been my perfect car so far with plenty of power to get me over HWY.17 into Silicon Valley from Santa Cruz but the shear exileration of the V8LS has got that topped by a mile!
billincal1 (#928): Do get the sunroof. My '00 LS8 Sport has one and we love it. I think it should be standard in a $35K near luxury vehicle. I'm 6'2" and have plenty of head room. During the first 28,000 miles mine has worked perfectly. No leaks, no troubles at all.
lolaj42 (#927): Think you are being too pedantic on the C&D Report. Their long-term test report clearly says "During its winter time with us, we put 9,500 miles on a set of taller, narrower 215/60QR-16 Bridgestone Blizzak MZ-02 winter tires." Theirs is a 40,000 miles test in which they had the car for at least 41,500 miles. So they put on over 30,000 miles on the vehicle's regular tires. I believe a reasonable reading of the article would be that there general comments concerning suspension tuning are in relation to the standard, not winter, tires. The article indicates estimated life of the standard tires at 49,000 miles and that they would likely get two more winters out of the Blizzaks.
Thanks for the input on the incompetent people. Just to draw some other analogies that are off topic. I used to listen to stereo's really loud and did you know that people that are going deaf cannot tell until it is too late? But at least they can tell at some point. Also a friend of mine who is someone involved in theology once told me that when mankind sins God drops a "Veil of Ignorance" so that he does not truly know what he/she is doing. It is through this ignorance that we can ask for forgiveness. This was his point of view and I found it interesting and the analogy applies here. A sinner does not know he is sinning(In reality or comprehend what he is really doing), a person going deaf does not know it until its too late, an incompetent person does not know he is incompetent as you stated. Very interesting.
The religious example just came to mind and is a point of view not necessarily mine. This is not a religious forum so please no one answer to it.
By the way that don't do inspections where they put car on Dyno's over here in Texas. Just hook it up to a machine and rev it a little. That will be interesting if they need to rev it past 3000 RPM in park!
Small world. I too commute over hwy 17 (from Scotts Valley) to Silicon Valley. I just bought (from North Bay Ford) an Autumn Red LS: V6 5speed manual. I'm picking it up tomorrow night. Can't wait! The LS is going to be a *great* car to drive over 17.
As to your questions, there is a TSB for the transmission which is simply a download (reflash) of new firmware to the on-board computer. The new flash contains new code for the transmission to allow smoother and faster shifts, both while driving, and when stopped and shifting from P to R for example. Any (automatic) 2001 you buy will need to have this new firmware. Whether yours in particular needs it will be deternined by the build date. Earlier than Oct or so, 2000 will not yet have the new firmware. Go here: http://www.llsoc.com and click recalls/tsbs for more info.
Moonroof: I ordered my LS with a moonroof. I love them. Driving over 17 at dusk or at nite with the roof open just feels good to me. I've got a factory moonroof in my '93 Mark 8, which I now unfortunately have to sell, and in 125,000 miles had it develop a leak once (about 50K miles). I noticed it right away and dealer fixed it under warranty. Also have one in my Chevy Tahoe, an aftermarket roof, which developed a leak just a couple of weeks ago. Sometimes it appears that the roof doesn't close properly, allowing water to seep in. So if we're careful to check when it closes, it's OK for now. Something's out of adjustment and I'll have to fix this one myself. So, 2 roofs, 2 leaks but I wouldn't let that worry me!
Most folks here recommend the Sport package, which comes with larger wheels, tires, firmer suspension, Select-Shift transmission, yada yada. The ride is a bit more 'Continental-like' without the Sports package, more 'BMW-like' with it. Mine has it. Another option I would recommend, especially for commuting hiway 17, is Advance Trac, which is a stability control system which will help keep the car under control if you get up too much speed in the twisties.
Good luck with your decision, keep us informed and watch for my Red LS travelling the late commute hours over 17 when the road is usually open for fun!
Please send me a copy if you can there are a few people I'd like to anonymously send it to. The only thing is they are so incompetent that they won't understand that they're the one I'm sending it to. I had a 1978 VW Scirroco, which only had one wiper for the entire windshield and a gas pedal that didn't have a rubber pad from the factory. One time when I brought it to inspection the Inspector failed me for only one wiper and having a missing gas pedal cover. I couldn't convince him that this is how it was designed.
billincal1, Get the moonroof its great and I have not seen any problems posted to date about it. Also get the AdvanceTrac; mine has saved my butt once or twice.
I haven't noticed the drone on my V6 non-sport. I can feel the torque converter unlock at around 52mph.
thomas_l. Here in Ca we "get" to go 4 years w/out smogging a new car :-)
billincal1. I would get the V8 sport, sunroof, and audiophile. I would also lease for 2 years then take out a 3 year loan. In my case, I think that would've been better than a 5 year loan.
Too pedantic? Perhaps. To me, the C&D review, like many (but not all) "independent" reviews, seems to be biased against the LS. This article, in my view, does not indicate how they arrived at their opinion. They're entitled to their opinion, but I for one would like to understand how they arrive at it. From the photos they show, I think it would be reasonable to assume that any new views presented would be reflective of the configuration they show. Frankly, after driving BMWs, and Audi quattros, I can't agree with their assessment. And to repeat what others have said about the automotive press, why is C&D determined to compare the LS with the BMW 3 series? Sorry, not a good comparison.
The emission testing here in CT is done at State inspection stations. It is currently contracted out to a company that hires cheap labor. The basic qualifications to work at an emissions testing station it that you are breathing It's got a long history that would make any tax payer's stomach acid go on overload. The emission program was started as political reward to one of the big local companies. It was originally run by the state then farmed out as I mentioned above. The state is trying to throw out the company that is running it right now do to incompetence (too many damaged cars and too many erroneous tests) and for criminal activities by its employees (several employees have been caught taking bribes to pass failing cars while others were stealing the required windshield stickers and selling them). The worse part about the program is that if your car fails once you have spent $150 on repairs you get an exemption sticker. It's a common site to see a junker chugging down the road spewing smoke and fumes, but it has an exemption sticker on it. An independent company did a study of the whole program and concluded that since the inspection program did not remove gross polluters from the roads that the program actually increased the net level of emissions by having the honest people drive those extra miles to the testing stations and sitting there in the lines with their engines running (there are signs in in waiting lanes telling you to keep you engine running. So much for spending hundreds of millions of dollars of our money to save us from ourselves.
I would not want the moon roof standard. I can't take the loss of headroom. Probably the primary reason I scratched the Acura TL off my short list, I just could not find a comfortable driving position with it's lack of head room. Had the same problem, but not as bad with the LS with moon roof.
If you get an '01 V8 built on or after 09/27/2000 or an '01 V6 built on or after 10/17/2000, you'll have the latest and greatest transmission software; no action will be required. An '01 built before those dates may have a slight downshift delay, but mine was built on 08/04/2000 and I've not had any problems.
If you go to the LLSOC website at http://www.llsoc.com and click on "Recalls and TSBs", you'll find a description of the tranny reflash.
I've had 3 Lincolns with factory moonroofs, and none of mine have ever leaked a drop or had any other problems. I'm 6'1" and headroom in the LS is fine for me; I don't know how it is in the back seat, but I haven't had any passenger complaints. Wind noise has never been an issue for me, either.
I have an '01 V8 Sport with moonroof and AdvanceTrac but no heated seats (I live in Texas.) If I had it to do over, I'd probably order exactly what I ordered the first time. You can't get the Audiophile stereo with the Sport package; that's my only real complaint.
An alternative is to get the Premium package which gives you the Sport suspension with the Audiophile sound system, but you don't get the SST shifter, the monochrome bumpers, or the leather-wrapped steering wheel and shift knob. Depends on your personal preference.
It's a great car no matter which configuration you choose--after 6 months I'm still extremely happy with mine.
Having put 28,000 miles on my '00 LS8 Sport w/AdvanceTrac, sunroof, 6-disc, audiophile, and heated seats, similar to what C&D reviewed, I thought their review was fair, accurate, balanced, and pretty much on target. I might quibble a bit but each car is unique. I think the title of the article said it all and in favor of LS. A great enthusiast buy! What more could we want them to say???
As for BMW 3 Series comparison, I think they rightly compare based on price. Jag S-type really competes in price with 5 Series. Think every 5 Series I've seen on a dealer's lot stickered for well into the $40K range, and often into $50K. My loaded LS8 stickered for only $39,400. Seen lots of 328s stickered from $36-42K. That is right in the meat of the LS8 price band. The 323 seems to routinely sticker around here for $30-34K, right in the heart of LS6 range. Seems fair and proper to compare LS to 3 Series. All we owners need to do is point out how much more car the LS is and how it might compare quite favorably, price-wise and driving-wise, with 5 Series.
Cars should be tested irregardless of price tag. If that was the case we would be comparing a 50 cent apple to a 50 cent orange!
The truth is cars are tested in their class. For example a Chevrolet Corvette 38K-50K is Compared to an Porsche 60K+ car, and the Acura NSX $90K car.Why because they are all sports cars. By your rational these cars should not even be mentioned in the same sentence since they are in different price ranges
The Fact is cars are categorized in Classes. Luxury Sport Sedan Comes to mine. The 323 might qualify but the line is fuzzy. The 3-series are either compact(4 door) or subcompact(coupe) vs. LS (midsize) and BMW 5(compact). These are the EPA ratings by the way. Also the 5 series and the LS both weigh in at a little above 3500 lbs not the 328 which is more like 3K lbs. The 5 Series has both V6 and V8's as does the LS. While the LS is not as refined as the BMW in luxury it is similar in size, and offerings.
This is why I have always said while Lincoln has done well it is not time to let up the LS is not up to the standard of the 540 53K+. It could be by adding more quality, nicer appointments, VVT, and a 6 Speed Manual as the 540 BMW does (4.0liter engine by the way not offered in 3 series).
They might do a cost comparison because people being Consumers are interested in the cars in a particular price range they can afford but not because it is an inherently logical comparison. That is why they have the battle of the SUV's, Minivans, Exotics, Roadsters, Trucks.
I wouldn't get too cranked up on whether it is a 3 or 5 Series comparison. LS comes off quite favorably in both cases when all relevant variables are taken into consideration, one big one being price.
Even within apples there are lots of different types of them. Granny Smith and Red Delicious are quite different, but sellers and buyers compare them if they are in market for apples. BMW 3 Series is close enough in size, configuration, performance, marketing, etc. and price to qualify. I know that when I was looking at the LS I compared it to the 3 Series, not the 5 Series. It would've been a waste of my time to compare cars I could afford (LS & 3 Series) to cars I couldn't afford (S-type, 5 Series & MB E-or S-Class). That is why price is such an important factor. Real world buyers give it a heck of a lot of consideration. Also, I'd rather rely on C&D, MT, R&T, etc. to determine a proper comparison than on Federal EPA.
Now if you are also talking comparing new to used cars, that is a different matter. I could see someone compare a new LS8 to a used 5 Series. I don't buy used cars.
Maybe we have different buying strategies. When I'm in the Produce Section of the grocery store and I look at my grocery list it merely says "Fruits & Veggies". I then look to see which of these are most cost competitive (and ripe) and buy. One week I buy apples and bananas. Next week it is pears and oranges. I won't buy $1.00 per pound oranges, regardless of type, if I can buy $.50 per pound pears, regardless of type. This type decision making is similar to what happens when I go to buy a new car. I may look a bit at lots of vehicles, but I quickly have to seriously compare based on what I can afford to buy. I think most buyers--excepting Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, Donald Trump.--do same.
I have been having persitant problems with my rear windows (2000 LS-6 Manny) - the culprit, I've come to find out, is the regulator.
My right rear window has just malufunctioned for the THIRD time (I also had the left rear slip once before.) I'm not sure if it's the fault of dealer service that this keeps happening- or I just ended up with particularly faulty door constuction on my vehicle. The dealer did say that they were making a lot of these repairs...
BUT I would really like some deeper insight before taking it back in for service yet again...
anyone who can help, please post- or mail me at: eric.lacombe@raremedium.com
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But anyway, to end on a positive note, it's still driving great... (of course.) Just miles away from 12k and counting. Just devouring that lease milage like there's no tomorrow... I just can't help it. The car makes me do it, I swear.
I guess if I owned a magazine I could publish comparisons of whatever I wanted to compare. The fact is that third party evaluations provide you enough subjective information to narrow your choices then go out and see for yourself. If you are price sensitive, then comparing the LS with a 3-series makes sense. If you have to haul 3 wide business guests out to lunch, maybe the 5-series is a better comparison. Buy what you like and forget about what other people think. I believe I have owned a few cars that even showed lots of black dots in the Consumer Reports - a fairly objective rating in my opinion. So what? I enjoyed the car despite their negative opinion about certain aspects because it was what I wanted.
By the way - it seems today I am the subject of the article I mentioned earlier. Those of you that are interested, I tagged it on my homepage and gave up using the browser-based e-mail disaster that I have to use at work. After three tries I felt like a guest star in a 3 stooges episode. Hey Moe!
On Tuesday morning (February 20th), I called Universal Ford/Lincoln here in Calgary and made an appointment to take in my 02/00 LSV8 Sports at 0730 on Wednesday. They asked me if I wanted a loaner and I said that I would.
The treatment by the service writer was fine and the loaner was a 2000 LSV8 non Sport in pristine condition with 15,000 miles on it. The writer said my car would be ready for 1430 as it had to go to two different departments but I was paged at 1330 and picked my car up. They'd even washed it - the first time anyone has done that for me!
The ball joints were fine and the TSB has really sharpened up the gear shifts - especially reverse to drive. Ford may not be perfect but I get the impression that they are really trying. I recommend the car to anyone who asks my impressions.
There are no right or wrong comparisons. If you want to compare similar size and type vehicles then this might be the list for 4 door luxury/performance sedans:
LS, 5/7 series, E320/430, GS300/400, A6
If price is the objective then it might be:
LS, 3 series, C320, ES/IS 300, A4, I30
I think the LS has some advantage over the competition in any comparison whether it's price, luxury, handling or styling.
Personally I considered a Cougar, Mustang GT convertible, 3 series, LS and numerous other vehicles - my list was "fun to drive" with seating for at least 2 adults and 2 kids and I wasn't looking in any particular price range - though I did have an upper limit. Each person has his or her own list.
The only things that bother me about the 3 series comparisons is that they never mention how much smaller it is. It may be giving people the false impression that the LS is a much smaller car than it really is.
With regard to the power window problem I have been advised there is a TSB that covers the problem. I'm having my repaired at this time. Just ask your service manager and advise him of the TSB. Both windows will be repaired.
It was a pleasure speaking with both Brian and Stan yesterday. You guys could pick up where Click and Clack of Car Talk (National Public Radio Program) leave off! You both were a big help and I'll look forward to meeting you at the next ralley. By the way, I have joined the owners club and would highly recommend that others consider joining.
The window regulators have a design flaw. Even if fixed, they could break again. In December I think, they came out with a re-designed regulator which is supposed to fix the problem. If you have them fixed now, just be sure they are using the new part.
Your're making me jealous: <<loaner was a 2000 LSV8 non Sport in pristine condition with 15,000 miles on it.>> So far my loaners have been: 1. A well worn but clean 1999 Town Car (twice same car) 2. An absolute pig pen of a 1999 Cougar 3. A clean but opressively smoke scented 1999 Sable My dealer also has a way of making you feel like you are imposing on them by asking for a loaner car in addition scheduling out service appointments with loaners 2-4 weeks.
<<The writer said my car would be ready for 1430 as it had to go to two different departments but I was paged at 1330 and picked my car up.>> Only 1 time did my dealer call as promised. Every other visit I had do call 2 or more times to find out if my LS was ready
<<They'd even washed it>> The last 2 times my LS was parked right next to the road where a big puddle collects and splashes on to the parked cars as traffic passes by. Every square inch of my LS was covered with sand salt and grime and has never been washed in 5 visits. I'm hoping I get another survice survey after my last visit so I can check every box of as "unaceptable" and see if anyone calls to find out why.
Your dealer service experiences mirror my initial ones. I immediately complained each and every time and after about 3 terrible experiences never went to that dealer again. Found a different one. But when I went there I told them why I was coming to them. That dealer has always treated me better. I always get decent loaners (usually the same LS8 non-Sport with the radio presets where I last left 'em--telling you how many times, too many, I've had mine in the shop) and never feel quilty. I've gotten to know the Service advisor and the (very attractive) accounting clerk well. When we first talk on phone, advisor always tells me he'll have a loaner LS8 ready. He'll wash my car if I want. (In winter, I don't ask for wash if I know the car will just get dirty on way home.)
So raise some cain and be prepared to take your business elsewhere! And if you can't, try talking with zone/region rep.
Comments
but such is life. Maybe today I will get it. Waiting to see the group photo. The clock is nice but
the picture is what I value. Its a moment in time with other people that feel the same way I do. Now how often do we get that in life! Clocks come and go as does time but the memories......
Regards,
Airwolf1000
George
PS - ETA was 2/27, so it was a week early.
CONGRATULATIONS !!!
You finally made it. I bet you feel super...and you should...you've made a great choice.
But don't walk into the dealer with "rose colored glasses" on. When you go to pick up your new baby, make sure you inspect it closely, especially for paint defects.
Good luck,
Joe
I do have a pretty good memory of the results when I was experimenting to figure out whether there was a relationship between the intermittent trunk lamp switch and the problem I had with the PATS transceiver. It turned out they were independent, and the transceiver problem was simply a poor connection between the cable and the connector.
I was told the box has a cell phone in it, and about once a month it will call Ford and download a bunch of data about all the engine conditions and experiences that have occurred. I'm supposed to have the box removed after 12-18 months after the study completes.
I'll be interested if I can learn what general things Ford expects to learn from this. It is a different world than when I got my first 1939 Chevvy!
Note to all: Artie and I have now proven conclusively that the way to insure delivery of your Mania clock is to put your LS in the driveway and wash it! The UPS truck will be there momentarily, and the hose-yourself-down part isn't even required.
JLinc, awaiting a Heyjewel rave
... welcome to the club!
George
For some reason, the car had not been PDI'd yet. I made sure to check fluid levels before I drove it just in case. So I had to leave it there to get all the prep work done, install the mudflaps I bought and take care of a couple of nits I noticed.
I signed all the papers and arranged to pick it up Thurs after work. What's another 2 days after waiting since December 11? :>)
George
I'm not convinced Lincoln has really identified the whole cause. On my LS I consider it to be sufficiently minor, and so localized to a narrow speed range, that I've just decided to ignore it. If Lincoln comes up with something that seems to REALLY explain it and really FIX it, I'll probably get it done.
It does seem to be RPM related, so if I shift to 4th at 51 MPH, the sound goes away. That would seem to argue against the half shaft resonance unless some engine vibration at that RPM travels through the driveshaft or something; but wouldn't the V8 and V6 behave very differently? I haven't heard about any explanation or solution that makes sense. Fortunately, it isn't really very loud or noticeable unless you're sort of listening for it.
I wish all the world's problems were this minor.
BTW have you and the better half tossed a coin to decide who drives it more?
Brian
I agree with your assessment entirely. My 2001 LS8 does exactly the same thing. For me, its a little more than just noticeable. I really wish I could get rid of it especially since it occurs at such an important speed.
Anyone else have any more info on this condition? Mr. Cupka, are you guys studying this yet?
Joe
Can anyone help?
Thanks
Kevin
Like others, this is not a big issue with me, but I would get it fixed if there was a known remedy that was not too invasive.
testing stations today. They now spin the wheels on rollers to run the cars in drive up to highway speed. Well the bozo's set my car up for front wheel drive. As they were putting the wheel chocks on the rear wheels, I started banging on
the glass from the waiting room and yelling at them "its rear wheel drive!" Got into an argument with the idiots who didn't want to believe me. I had visions of my LS jumping over the wheel chocks and smashing the open driver's door and underside in the process.
The rear end drone has been extensively discussed in the past. It will only be present when the torque converter is locked. It is the beating of the natural resonant frequency of the half shafts with other parts in the drive line that have a resonant frequency close to that of the half-shafts. I did have my half shafts replaced. Like others it did reduce but not eliminate the drone. My understanding was that there were other changes that needed to be made to completely eliminate the drone. These other changes could not be retrofitted to existing LS's.
Does anyone with 2001 LS's have the drone, or has it been finally fixed.
By the way Mike and Mr. Hi Ho Silver I will try to send you the pictures tonight. Sorry but been real hectic.
Regarding the LS V6 Manual. Is it the first Getrag Ford has had in its vehicles. If it is then the LS has one more first for it. Hopefully the the alliance betweend ford and Getrag will solidify the development of an LS V8 Manual.
Regarding the Panic Attack. Why is it Car Mechanics assume we are idiots and question us when we tell them how it is. The burden of proof is on them to show us differently. After all we are familiar with our car. Now I know there are alot of idiot car owners out there but apparently also mechanics or inspectioners cause let me tell you I can tell you right off the bat which cars are rear wheel drive and which ones aren't. And if not, then all it takes is a quick look under the car. Man I tell ya.
Take care guys...
Regards,
Airwolf1000
As Rene and Mike stated in posts 914 and 919, my drone occurs at 51mph only in D5. It is also slightly noticeable at 42mph in D4. It is only apparent during light acceleration or while maintaining speed. It is not present while coasting or hard acceleration.
To me, it sounds like it is emanating from below the firewall around the transmission bell housing which would agree with your statement that it is torque-converter related.
Any help is appreciated.
Joe
Also in the same issue, an ad for a BMW 525i. First time I've ever seen a BMW 5-series with the price listed. Is BMW getting worried about Lincoln?
Brian
And finally if any of you current LS owner out there could do it all over again what would you put on this time that you didn't or couldn't afford the first time...just curious... helps to know all the variables from experienced owners before I tally up the sheet and write a check. I didn't think I would be so performance oriented, the Continental has been my perfect car so far with plenty of power to get me over HWY.17 into Silicon Valley from Santa Cruz but the shear exileration of the V8LS has got that topped by a mile!
Bill
lolaj42 (#927): Think you are being too pedantic on the C&D Report. Their long-term test report clearly says "During its winter time with us, we put 9,500 miles on a set of taller, narrower 215/60QR-16 Bridgestone Blizzak MZ-02 winter tires." Theirs is a 40,000 miles test in which they had the car for at least 41,500 miles. So they put on over 30,000 miles on the vehicle's regular tires. I believe a reasonable reading of the article would be that there general comments concerning suspension tuning are in relation to the standard, not winter, tires. The article indicates estimated life of the standard tires at 49,000 miles and that they would likely get two more winters out of the Blizzaks.
The religious example just came to mind and is a point of view not necessarily mine. This is not a religious forum so please no one answer to it.
By the way that don't do inspections where they put car on Dyno's over here in Texas. Just hook it up to a machine and rev it a little. That will be interesting if they need to rev it past 3000 RPM in park!
Regards,
Airwolf1000
Small world. I too commute over hwy 17 (from Scotts Valley) to Silicon Valley. I just bought (from North Bay Ford) an Autumn Red LS: V6 5speed manual. I'm picking it up tomorrow night. Can't wait! The LS is going to be a *great* car to drive over 17.
As to your questions, there is a TSB for the transmission which is simply a download (reflash) of new firmware to the on-board computer. The new flash contains new code for the transmission to allow smoother and faster shifts, both while driving, and when stopped and shifting from P to R for example. Any (automatic) 2001 you buy will need to have this new firmware. Whether yours in particular needs it will be deternined by the build date. Earlier than Oct or so, 2000 will not yet have the new firmware. Go here: http://www.llsoc.com and click recalls/tsbs for more info.
Moonroof: I ordered my LS with a moonroof. I love them. Driving over 17 at dusk or at nite with the roof open just feels good to me. I've got a factory moonroof in my '93 Mark 8, which I now unfortunately have to sell, and in 125,000 miles had it develop a leak once (about 50K miles). I noticed it right away and dealer fixed it under warranty. Also have one in my Chevy Tahoe, an aftermarket roof, which developed a leak just a couple of weeks ago. Sometimes it appears that the roof doesn't close properly, allowing water to seep in. So if we're careful to check when it closes, it's OK for now. Something's out of adjustment and I'll have to fix this one myself. So, 2 roofs, 2 leaks but I wouldn't let that worry me!
Most folks here recommend the Sport package, which comes with larger wheels, tires, firmer suspension, Select-Shift transmission, yada yada. The ride is a bit more 'Continental-like' without the Sports package, more 'BMW-like' with it. Mine has it. Another option I would recommend, especially for commuting hiway 17, is Advance Trac, which is a stability control system which will help keep the car under control if you get up too much speed in the twisties.
Good luck with your decision, keep us informed and watch for my Red LS travelling the late commute hours over 17 when the road is usually open for fun!
George
billincal1,
Get the moonroof its great and I have not seen any problems posted to date about it. Also get the AdvanceTrac; mine has saved my butt once or twice.
Tom.....
thomas_l. Here in Ca we "get" to go 4 years w/out smogging a new car :-)
billincal1. I would get the V8 sport, sunroof, and audiophile. I would also lease for 2 years then take out a 3 year loan. In my case, I think that would've been better than a 5 year loan.
Michael
program was started as political reward to one of the big local companies. It was originally run by the state then farmed out as I mentioned above. The state is trying to throw out the company that is running it right now do to incompetence (too many damaged cars and too many erroneous tests) and for criminal activities by its employees (several employees have been caught taking bribes to pass failing cars while others were stealing the required windshield stickers and selling them). The worse part about the program is that if your car fails once you have spent $150 on repairs you get an exemption sticker. It's a common site to see a junker chugging down the road spewing smoke and fumes, but it has an exemption sticker on it. An independent company did a study of the whole program and concluded that since the inspection program did not remove gross polluters from the roads that the program actually increased the net level of emissions by having the honest people drive those extra miles to the testing stations and sitting there in the lines with their engines running (there are signs in in waiting lanes telling you to keep you engine running. So much for spending hundreds of millions of dollars of our money to save us from ourselves.
If you get an '01 V8 built on or after 09/27/2000 or an '01 V6 built on or after 10/17/2000, you'll have the latest and greatest transmission software; no action will be required. An '01 built before those dates may have a slight downshift delay, but mine was built on 08/04/2000 and I've not had any problems.
If you go to the LLSOC website at http://www.llsoc.com and click on "Recalls and TSBs", you'll find a description of the tranny reflash.
I've had 3 Lincolns with factory moonroofs, and none of mine have ever leaked a drop or had any other problems. I'm 6'1" and headroom in the LS is fine for me; I don't know how it is in the back seat, but I haven't had any passenger complaints. Wind noise has never been an issue for me, either.
I have an '01 V8 Sport with moonroof and AdvanceTrac but no heated seats (I live in Texas.) If I had it to do over, I'd probably order exactly what I ordered the first time. You can't get the Audiophile stereo with the Sport package; that's my only real complaint.
An alternative is to get the Premium package which gives you the Sport suspension with the Audiophile sound system, but you don't get the SST shifter, the monochrome bumpers, or the leather-wrapped steering wheel and shift knob. Depends on your personal preference.
It's a great car no matter which configuration you choose--after 6 months I'm still extremely happy with mine.
As for BMW 3 Series comparison, I think they rightly compare based on price. Jag S-type really competes in price with 5 Series. Think every 5 Series I've seen on a dealer's lot stickered for well into the $40K range, and often into $50K. My loaded LS8 stickered for only $39,400. Seen lots of 328s stickered from $36-42K. That is right in the meat of the LS8 price band. The 323 seems to routinely sticker around here for $30-34K, right in the heart of LS6 range. Seems fair and proper to compare LS to 3 Series. All we owners need to do is point out how much more car the LS is and how it might compare quite favorably, price-wise and driving-wise, with 5 Series.
The truth is cars are tested in their class. For example a Chevrolet Corvette 38K-50K is Compared to an Porsche 60K+ car, and the Acura NSX $90K car.Why because they are all sports cars. By your rational these cars should not even be mentioned in the same sentence since they are in different price ranges
The Fact is cars are categorized in Classes. Luxury Sport Sedan Comes to mine. The 323 might qualify but the line is fuzzy. The 3-series are either compact(4 door) or subcompact(coupe) vs. LS (midsize) and BMW 5(compact). These are the EPA ratings by the way. Also the 5 series and the LS both weigh in at a little above 3500 lbs not the 328 which is more like 3K lbs. The 5 Series has both V6 and V8's as does the LS. While the LS is not as refined as the BMW in luxury it is similar in size, and offerings.
This is why I have always said while Lincoln has done well it is not time to let up the LS is not up to the standard of the 540 53K+. It could be by adding more quality, nicer appointments, VVT, and a 6 Speed Manual as the 540 BMW does (4.0liter engine by the way not offered in 3 series).
They might do a cost comparison because people being Consumers are interested in the cars in a particular price range they can afford but not because it is an inherently logical comparison. That is why they have the battle of the SUV's, Minivans, Exotics, Roadsters, Trucks.
That way you have the Best of Class.
O.k. enough ranting...
regards,
airwolf1000
Even within apples there are lots of different types of them. Granny Smith and Red Delicious are quite different, but sellers and buyers compare them if they are in market for apples. BMW 3 Series is close enough in size, configuration, performance, marketing, etc. and price to qualify. I know that when I was looking at the LS I compared it to the 3 Series, not the 5 Series. It would've been a waste of my time to compare cars I could afford (LS & 3 Series) to cars I couldn't afford (S-type, 5 Series & MB E-or S-Class). That is why price is such an important factor. Real world buyers give it a heck of a lot of consideration. Also, I'd rather rely on C&D, MT, R&T, etc. to determine a proper comparison than on Federal EPA.
Now if you are also talking comparing new to used cars, that is a different matter. I could see someone compare a new LS8 to a used 5 Series. I don't buy used cars.
My right rear window has just malufunctioned for the THIRD time (I also had the left rear slip once before.) I'm not sure if it's the fault of dealer service that this keeps happening- or I just ended up with particularly faulty door constuction on my vehicle. The dealer did say that they were making a lot of these repairs...
BUT I would really like some deeper insight before taking it back in for service yet again...
anyone who can help, please post- or mail me at:
eric.lacombe@raremedium.com
---
But anyway, to end on a positive note, it's still driving great... (of course.) Just miles away from 12k and counting. Just devouring that lease milage like there's no tomorrow... I just can't help it. The car makes me do it, I swear.
By the way - it seems today I am the subject of the article I mentioned earlier. Those of you that are interested, I tagged it on my homepage and gave up using the browser-based e-mail disaster that I have to use at work. After three tries I felt like a guest star in a 3 stooges episode. Hey Moe!
The treatment by the service writer was fine and the loaner was a 2000 LSV8 non Sport in pristine condition with 15,000 miles on it. The writer said my car would be ready for 1430 as it had to go to two different departments but I was paged at 1330 and picked my car up. They'd even washed it - the first time anyone has done that for me!
The ball joints were fine and the TSB has really sharpened up the gear shifts - especially reverse to drive. Ford may not be perfect but I get the impression that they are really trying. I recommend the car to anyone who asks my impressions.
dbain1
LS, 5/7 series, E320/430, GS300/400, A6
If price is the objective then it might be:
LS, 3 series, C320, ES/IS 300, A4, I30
I think the LS has some advantage over the competition in any comparison whether it's price, luxury, handling or styling.
Personally I considered a Cougar, Mustang GT convertible, 3 series, LS and numerous other vehicles - my list was "fun to drive" with seating for at least 2 adults and 2 kids and I wasn't looking in any particular price range - though I did have an upper limit. Each person has his or her own list.
The only things that bother me about the 3 series comparisons is that they never mention how much smaller it is. It may be giving people the false impression that the LS is a much smaller car than it really is.
It was a pleasure speaking with both Brian and Stan yesterday. You guys could pick up where Click and Clack of Car Talk (National Public Radio Program) leave off! You both were a big help and I'll look forward to meeting you at the next ralley. By the way, I have joined the owners club and would highly recommend that others consider joining.
<<loaner was a 2000 LSV8 non Sport in pristine condition with 15,000 miles on it.>>
So far my loaners have been:
1. A well worn but clean 1999 Town Car (twice same car)
2. An absolute pig pen of a 1999 Cougar
3. A clean but opressively smoke scented 1999 Sable
My dealer also has a way of making you feel like you are imposing on them by asking for a loaner car in addition scheduling out service appointments with loaners 2-4 weeks.
<<The writer said my car would be ready for 1430 as it had to go to two different departments but I was paged at 1330 and picked my car up.>>
Only 1 time did my dealer call as promised. Every other visit I had do call 2 or more times to find out if my LS was ready
<<They'd even washed it>>
The last 2 times my LS was parked right next to the road where a big puddle collects and splashes on to the parked cars as traffic passes by. Every square inch of my LS was covered with sand salt and grime and has never been washed in 5 visits. I'm hoping I get another survice survey after my last visit so I can check every box of as "unaceptable" and see if anyone calls to find out why.
So raise some cain and be prepared to take your business elsewhere! And if you can't, try talking with zone/region rep.
I had the previous repairs done before December, so now I can see why they didn't last. I've already got my maintenace scheduled... thanks again!