The orange spots are probably brake or rail dust; little spots of (rusting)metal embedded in the paint. Claying the paint followed by a good wax job should solve the problems.
Thanks for all the replies. To give an update on my search, today we test drove: 2004 Nissan Maxima, 2001 Lexus RX 300, 2000 Lexus RX300, 2001 Acura TL, 2001 Lincoln V6 LS, 2001 V8 Lincoln LS, 2003 Volkswagen Passat. My wife and I are still trying to organize our thoughts.
A couple of questions I have about the LS:
1) What is the typical gas mileage that the V6 and V8 get. Is there a big difference between the two? What other differences are there between the two? I'd like to get a driver's impression of this rather than what the dealer tells me.
2) The dealer told me that with the V6 premium fuel was optional, but recommended. This didnt sound right to me. Whats the real deal?
3) The LS's that we are looking at are about 2001-2 with about 20-35K on the clock. That leaves about 15-30K or 1 or 2 years of bumper to bumper warranty left. Is the extended warranty worth considering,or are repair expenses usually nominal when the occur (I know that is a loaded question ).
I'm currently averaging about 17.5 MPG(according to the info center) with my LS V8. And this is with a pretty heavy foot and a considerable amount of stop and go traffic. As for the warranty, I'm debating whether to buy one or not.
My '00 V8 averages 22 mpg with about 85% highway in flat, low country. I run 93 octane. ALL LSs "require" 91+ octane fuel. However, they will "run" on regular. How long they will run is debatable... The real world difference between the two engines is about 1-2 MPG on the highway and 2-3 mpg in town.
The handling differences between the two models are indistinguishable. While it's true the V6 engine weighs about 60 lbs less than the V8, the overall difference in weight distribution on each wheel is so small that it's insignificant. This is especially true if the V6 were equipped with a mini-spare and the V8 were equipped with a full-size spare, thereby giving the V8 a BETTER overall, cross-corner and front-to-rear weight balance.
Also, since the V6 can no longer be purchased with the sport tuned suspension option, the softer springs and smaller anti-sway bar would really put it at a great handling disadvantage to the Sport equipped V-8.
ONLY the '00-'03 manual transmission equipped V-6 (they only came with the sport suspension) could be considered a better handling car, and that's also because the transmission weighs less.
For anyone to claim one model handles better than the other in a blanket statement without mentioning equipment levels or the spare tire provision is REEEALLY stretching it.
“Is the extended warranty worth considering, or are repair expenses usually nominal when the occur”
Extended warranty: As others have said here and in other forums, this is a highly individual choice and depends largely on how you view risk. A complex and sophisticated electromechanical device (not just a car) can be breathtakingly expensive to have problems diagnosed and repaired out of warranty. Some are comfortable with risking repair bills in the thousands of dollars – a major trans. failure, for instance. I am not. Your call.
Fuel mileage: YMMV! Once broken in, my Y2K I saw hiway mileage (65 – 75 mph, light traffic & relatively steady speeds) of 24 to 25. Off hiway, there are so many variables that I believe any number is unlikely to be something comparable. I could see as low as 17 in Atlanta metro area traffic. But anyone’s experience is likely to be different from yours to some significant degree, due to many factors. My ’03 seems to be able to achieve better highway mileage – 26+ at cruise.
Again: YMMV. And almost certainly will. - Ray Ex-owner: Y2K LS8 Sport & current owner: ’03 LS8 Sport
Just after my oem warranty expired I had my second transmission issue a recuurence of the 1st and the topic of discussion in i get a kick.... again. I also had the crank case failure and a window regulator and the drivers side seat heating element go out all occured previously and were repair under warranty and thankfully it was covered again under the extended. Oddly enough all these things happened on or about the same time except the window reg. it happend while in the shop for the repair of the tranny. The put the window down on a road test and it didn't go back up.
You never know the TCO, true cost of ownership, until you have to pay out of pocket for these sorts of things. My investment in the warranty paid me back 3 fold
When we picked up our '04 LS V-6 the salesman also pointed out the 'recommended' not 'required' statement in the owner's manual. Service manager said there were any number of choices, run with 91 octane all the time, run with regular 87 octane or mix the 2; 1 tank of premium juice, next tank of regular.
Cannot tell you about the LS but none of my Audis could tell the diference between premium and regular juice. Never tried to run anything but the top octane grade when I had my Boxster.
Well I actually filled up with 89 one vs the 93 i normally use just to test the waters. Lets just say I won't be doing that again. Whoa! I don't know what sounded worse wife's nagging or my LS's knocking.
I think I can deal with the nagging over the knocking. Although my wife won't be posting hear I would just like to go ahead with a public apology no just in case. Sorry Dear.
I have the service cd and have glanced over the procedures for the replacement of the solenoid and found another part, reverse servo, during the process and would greatlty appreciate it if someone could give me the function of both the solenoid and the reverse servo.
I bought Frod ESP for $100 over dealer cost with my vehicle. I have 30k miles and am very impressed with the vehicle reliability, so I am not sure if it was a wise investment or not. Dorp me an email at LobsenzA@Rose-Grp.com if you want more details.
There are several solenoids in the transmission. They control the pressures to each clutch and band in the transmission. The solenoids are located in the solenoid body, which is inside the transmission oil pan.
The reverse servo is the mechanism used to apply the reverse band. It is basically a piston and rod with rubber seals. Fluid pressure is applied to one end of the piston which forces the servo to apply the reverse band.
I think I bought STP the one or two times that I tried it (no particular brand preference.) I just wanted to see what it would do and it did seem to give it a little more response.
Hi Mark - good to hear from you! My tranny is performing very well. (It's due for its 60,000 mile flush in the near future.)
I am wondering if I should replace the rev servo while replacing the servo pack. You mentioned there are multiple servos and when I spoke with the SA he said they replaced the servo pack and the parts folks list a servo pack part number xwyz7g391ac. I can't find my service report from my last visit and am hoping someone else may know if this is the only item i need to replace.
I have found it for as little as 225 dol;ars but the only thing holding me back right now is finding the tool used to refil the tranny. Anyone know eher I may find the refil tool?
I have been offered a 2001 Lincoln LS with 37K on the clock for $16,900 from a dealership (not a lincoln). Is that a good deal? I comes with a CD changer but not much else. There area few minor problems, like the passenger side lumbar support switch is missing. Is that available to buy somewhere? I will have my mechanic check out the car to see if I am missing anything else. The only thing I noticed is that the car has a rev limiter when I am in park and trying to rev the engine. When the limiter kicks in, the car starts to shake. Is that normal?
I think you could get it much much cheaper. Trade in on that car is about 11k plus it has apparent problems and I have to say that my experience with this car has been a tremendous let down.
The limiter is not a problem by any means and I will be the first to admit that I love the looks of this car but form should follow function and unfortuneately this is not the case with this automobile.
I have owned many fords, this 1 and only lincoln, and several Nissans including my wifes 03 3.5se altima and I have NEVER been let down as badly by a nissan as I have been with ford and lincoln.
Ultimately you have to decide if there is value in this car and during that process you should consider the total cost of ownership. For me post warranty and extendsed warranty I am over 3000 out of pocket in the last 12 months and about 10k dollars upside down due to this cars inabvility to hold value. Not to mention the 12.5k dollars worth of work done under warranty.
I think for a few more thosand dolllars you could find brand new lincoln ls or at this same price a very reliable Altima that is well equiped.
I had 250k miles on my last Nissan before buying my LS and only had to change the customary belts, oil and brakes.... There is no perfect automobile buty there are those that tend to travel well without costing a lot in maintenance.
I would be happy to detail for you everything my car has had to have repaired if you like. Just let me know and I will give you my email addy.
in closing think about what you really have to spend in terms of maintenance dollars not car payments.
I think I'd pass that example up. Either that or low ball them and see if they are wanting to move product. I paid a bit more than that for mine, although it only had 26K and was fully loaded. Keep looking around, as many 01(and probably some 02s) that are getting ready to come of leases, you should be able to find something.
my a/c keeps blowing fuses and I took some reading today and found that on all accys i am getting about 13.5 volts on them things like ac and fog lights.... and took amperage readings in the ac and found that i am getting about 11.5 to 12 amps at the fuse box and an average of 13volts on the ac.....
I would like to know if these readings are out of tolerance and if so what would be the next component up from these accys that would regulate power and voltage. Somethging to the likes of a voltage regulator from the old shade tree mechanics days.
thanks in advance.
saz1
keep looking boss or run the sales people aground on the price or get them to throw in an extended warranty.
I love my car and the bad thing about things that you love they hurt us the most. good luck
My wife and I have done a pretty good search in our area and the offer I told you was the best available. We had an offer for an 02 V8 for $18,900, but when we test drove it, the engine sounded wheezy. We are getting pretty tired of looking for cars, and I dont want to spend an extra week for the sake of $500. The Edmunds suggested Retail for the car that we are considering is between $17,000 (Clean) and $17,600 (Outstanding). Unless you guys think I am getting ripped off?
This car will have 9 months or 13K left on the warranty. I dont think extended warranties are worth the money in most cases.
In most cases you are probably right on the ext warranty but if you or your wife intend to drive this car I would highly suggest it. This car esp the 00 and 01 suffer from repetative failure syndrome. I have seen in many cases and believe me I am quite friendly with my SA that the problem that come up with this car seem to pop up on the radar quite frequently.
I would say if you are going to drive more than 12k miles a year then go with another. As much I would love to be able to say go get it in my humble opinion I cannot knowing there is not much warranty left on this vehicle. If you are in love with this car and you are not going to use it as a dialy driver then by all means pick it up but if this is not the case let it go cause it will break your heart and your wallet.
then why are there so many happy LS owners that respond on this board (or used to)? And why does Consumer Reports list it as a recommended used car purchase?
I've got a 2000 model year LS, and it's been THE MOST reliable and trouble-free car I've ever owned, and that includes a 15+ year run of Japanese vehicles. The only issues I've ever had were fogging headlight lenses, and a broken rear-window regulator. Both were fixed under warranty at no cost to me, and neither represented a reliability concern. My transmission was also reflashed early on to address a 1-second or so lag between shifting from Park to Reverse, but that was done per a TSB during a routine oil change. The transmission reflash only affected cars built during the first 8-months or so of initial production in 1999/2000.
My car is 4 years old, still on the original battery (in Phoenix, that's nothing short of miraculous), and I've got 40K miles on it. I think the car is bullet-proof, and would get another if it were stolen or totaled tomorrow.
Problems to look-out for, though, may include leaky valve cover gaskets on the 3.9 liter V-8 engine that could lead to fouling of the coil-on-plug (COP) units; and worn-out front sway-bar bushings that can cause a clunking sound when driving over speed bumps. I'm not aware of anything else that could be considered problematic. I have many friends that drive LS's and most will enthusiastically recommend this car to anyone.
As for prices and option levels, do your home and do the best you can. Good luck.
I have a Double OH with 96k highway driven miles, garage kept, hand washed, dealer maintained.... you couldn't find a better owner for adoption PERIOD.
When I tell you my SA has been very frank with me about the failures of the LS you can take it to the bank. If that isn't enough my neighbor to my left is a lincoln mechanic with 12 years under his wrench and the neighbor to my right own his on auto repair shop, who also owns an LS, and both would concur that the early LS's although they appear to be cut from a fine cloth were in fact not.
The car is great at the curb past that it looks great on the service rack.
I will give you that it is safe 5 stars at every conceivable point iirc but saftey only gets you so far.
nearly 500 dollars for a tune up, 9 window regulators, 3 visits for tranny work to replace the solenoid pack, 2 heat elements for the drivers seat, some repair for the nutty behavior of the hvac controls, now the ac clutch has decide to go bonkers just out of the blue, head light replacement once for fogging but need to be replaced again.... for a luxury car fogged up headlights is becoming at all NOT A GOOD LOOK!
I could keep going and mine is not an isolated case. Maybe if you don't drive your car frequently and you got it on the cheap it isn't such a bad deal. But 16k for an 01 that already has repairs needed isn't worth taking home.
saz1 do some home work..... if you want to think i am a basher come speak to my neighbors they will tell you there isn't a car in the world that is cared for more by an owner. If you want a copy of my service records I'll be happy to give em to you.
You want my phone number to speak to me person to person I'll give it. You want this car get it and establish an escrow account to pay for future repairs.
please don't take offense lola .... as far as being on the same battery well that is something else mate and not a very really compelling reason to buy this car. Put some miles on it and get back to us.
Saz if you are over 55 and will not drive more than 9 to 10k miles a year then this is your car. I guess else keep shopping or have them give you a free extended warranty or at least give it to you at cost which is about 500 dollars for one that will cover you till 80k.
not certain if lola is still an llsoc member but i do recall this member during my membership which I no longer keep due to my obvious lack of enthusiasm I recall valueable contributions here and there so please do not take my comentary as bashing of him or his experiences. I just don't want you to walk away from here with a few positive responses and take it as the standard nor do i want you to not buy an LS god knows if these stop selling the trade in value with go even further south and I can stand to loose any more.
Put it this way.... I would not in concious sell my car nor recommend this car that was built from 99 to 01 to anyone looking for a daily driver that they plan on taking the family out in on family trips.
With summertime ambient daytime high temperatures in the 110+ degrees Fahrenheit (we typically have more than 100 days where the high temperature exceeds 100 degrees F), under-hood temperatures are incredibly high. Just as extreme low temperatures are battery killers, so are high temperatures. I've never had a battery last more than 3 years in any vehicle I've ever operated out here, and that's been since 1984. Since the battery of the LS is located in the wheel well of the trunk, it's out of the incredibly hot/severe environment of the typical engine bay location, hence the improved life expectancy.
While I agree, battery longevity is not in-and-of-itself an indicator of low levels of maintenance or problems, it does significantly reduce one of the strongest contributors to overall RELIABILITY.
Gunnersmate, anyone that reads my profile can clearly contact me via my published email address, and it also indicates my status as a FORMER Lincoln LS Owners Club member (and the Arizona Chapter Director to boot!) While I'm no longer a club member, that has nothing to do with my impression of the LS.
Now, if your SA and dealership REALLY had a clue on how to maintain your LS, why on earth would they have changed out the rear window regulator 9 times with an old design that was widely known to be inadequate and was updated, not once, but twice within a 6-month period back in 2002?
Also, while your problems have been experienced by others that own an LS, I haven't heard of anyone with all of them on a single car, and I haven't heard that many people experience them anyway. What I'm saying is that while you seem to have gotten a lemon (all manufacturers make them you know) it is not typical for this automobile. I'm not an advocate for Consumer Reports either, but it's very hard to dispute their data gathering capabilities. Consumer Reports is not known for recommending unreliable cars, are they?
As far as the LS goes, I know of at least 2 people that have more than 100K trouble-free miles on their 2000 model year LS's, and many more with mileage in excess of 70K. Further, while my 40K miles may not seem like very much, I've tracked my car on a few occasions (Phoenix International Raceway, Arizona Motorsports Park, and Waterford Hills in Michigan), and I autocross regularly with the Arizona SCCA, very competitively I might add. Check out the results posting page of the AZ Sports Car Club of America ( http://www.azsolo2.com/cgi-bin/results.cgi? ), and check out my finish results in the Street Tire 1 (ST1) category since July 2002. I submit to you that my 40K miles aren't typical, easy highway ones and maintenance intervals are closely watched. Despite my driving characteristics, my LS has held up very well and I STRONGLY recommend this car to anyone!
Yes... i see now Thermal Degeneration. I didn't realize temps go t that bad there obviously a concern for everyone there. Looks like the battery place by Lincoln was beneficial in your case.
While I agree, battery longevity is not in-and-of-itself an indicator of low levels of maintenance or problems, it does significantly reduce one of the strongest contributors to overall RELIABILITY.
Gunnersmate, anyone that reads my profile can clearly contact me via my published email address, and it also indicates my status as a FORMER Lincoln LS Owners Club member (and the Arizona Chapter Director to boot!) While I'm no longer a club member, that has nothing to do with my impression of the LS.
>>> I know... I was trying to pint out that your opinions are valid due to your experience in the LS community here and abroad.
Now, if your SA and dealership REALLY had a clue on how to maintain your LS, why on earth would they have changed out the rear window regulator 9 times with an old design that was widely known to be inadequate and was updated, not once, but twice within a 6-month period back in 2002?
>>> Yeah I have to wonder the same thing but it wasn't for the same window, All 4 windows have had the regulators replaced twice and the front passenger once by me. You raise a good question what don't they know to do a better job by using a more superior part design. I think this should be a question that saz1 ponders while shopping for his car
Also, while your problems have been experienced by others that own an LS, I haven't heard of anyone with all of them on a single car, and I haven't heard that many people experience them anyway. What I'm saying is that while you seem to have gotten a lemon (all manufacturers make them you know) it is not typical for this automobile. I'm not an advocate for Consumer Reports either, but it's very hard to dispute their data gathering capabilities. Consumer Reports is not known for recommending unreliable cars, are they?
>>>> I am sure they produced more than one lemon and I would like to know what the ratio is not only for my sake but for others considering this car. As far as consumer reports goes I am sure they work as hard as they can to get real world data but a report based on a fixed cross section of consumers will only get you so far. I am here to report that my experience is not great and know other consumers that aren't very pleased and maybe my case is extrodinary. That said I have reservations when reccommending this car.
As far as the LS goes, I know of at least 2 people that have more than 100K trouble-free miles on their 2000 model year LS's, and many more with mileage in excess of 70K. Further, while my 40K miles may not seem like very much, I've tracked my car on a few occasions (Phoenix International Raceway, Arizona Motorsports Park, and Waterford Hills in Michigan), and I autocross regularly with the Arizona SCCA, very competitively I might add. Check out the results posting page of the AZ Sports Car Club of America ( http://www.azsolo2.com/cgi-bin/results.cgi? ), and check out my finish results in the Street Tire 1 (ST1) category since July 2002. I submit to you that my 40K miles aren't typical, easy highway ones and maintenance intervals are closely watched. Despite my driving characteristics, my LS has held up very well and I STRONGLY recommend this car to anyone!
>>>>>> I certainly hope this trend is the standard becasue I plan to get out of this car in the not so distant future and would like to see a stable market for its resale.
There are pro's and con's in all products and I think that this car is rich in features and obviously I found value in them at one point in my life.
SAZ1 I know that lolaj42 is a good poster here and does have plenty of experience with this car. In no way was my commentary aimed at usurping his standing or value here.
Rumor has it that the hosts & others are lightening up considerably here at Edmunds, so the chances of upsetting anyone by not toeing the party line are way lower than they used to be.
Yeah I remember back in the day that was a real problem here but I was not trying to get this past the prying eyes of the censors. I honestly believe that lolah42 is experienced enough to report the lighter side of the LS.
Can someone tell me if 13 volts and 11.5 to 12 amps is too high of an input for the AC? Well obviuosly it is casue I am blowiung 10 amp fuses everytime I install a new one.
So I really need to be asking what component is in charge of controlling power to the accys or is it that the AC is purposefully drawing this kind of power and if this is the case what should I set my focus on in the troubleshooting process. Thank in advance.
is often based on one's experience with their dealership. Many people trust their dealership more than Lincoln Mercury/Ford, and there-in lies the problem, IMO.
One of the most important lessons I've learned since buying American again is that the dealership plays a much larger role in overall satisfaction of the car ownership experience than I had previously imagined. Luckily for me, I've had excellent dealership support, but not because I'm such a great guy or that I had previous connections at the dealerships.
My participation on discussion boards have educated me greatly on the attributes and idiosyncrasies of the LS as well as how to "manage" the dealership service department. It also helps to know a few Lincoln/Ford engineers and discover how things are "supposed" to work when they were originally designed. Armed with this mind-set and information, I am far more prepared to interface with the dealership Service Advisors, Managers, and Technicians to get my service needs met. Unfortunately, I don't think the average consumer has that sort of insight and typically prefers the nanny state treatment provided by Lexus (and pays for it with higher sales prices).
As far as resale values go, as long as the American car makers are forced into buying market share through incentives, resale values of their products will continue to remain low. However, educated consumers aware of this are better able to negotiate a lower purchase/lease price, so the actual $ depreciation level (rather than % depreciation) isn't quite as bad.
Rebates are necessary because the people who buy American cars have been trained to expect big rebates so they hold off on their purchases until they're available. Ditch the rebates and they stop buying. Other buyers are accustomed to paying close to MSRP or higher without rebates except in special circumstances.
Rebates are typically needed to move cars when there is too much inventory (caused by the need to keep union workers and plants employed), not because of the perceived quality or lack thereof. Lincoln's quality is above average and a Lincoln LS at today's prices is a screaming bargain if that's the type of vehicle you're looking for.
The only people getting hosed on depreciation are early LS buyers who paid well over invoice without rebates. And that's only if they choose to sell their vehicle. The longer you keep it the less it matters. If you buy a new LS with all the discounts and rebates today then the actual depreciation (based on actual price paid versus residual value as opposed to MSRP) will be no worse than other similar vehicles. What Chris was trying to say is that resale values for used cars are down across the board (some more than others) and the LS is no worse than others - go price a Lexus GS300 e.g. It's just as bad if not worse. There is a glut of used cars due to increased leasing and it's dragging down prices, period.
Just because you had a lemon and others had some problems with early 2000 models is not enough evidence for you to say they're not reliable vehicles. For every lemon we have owners with 100k+ miles with almost no problems whatsoever. The average is somewhere in between. They're not perfect but they are certainly not terrible either.
Why don't you just say you got a lemon and you hate it and don't recommend it and leave it at that? Let others tell their experience which may be just the opposite and let the buyer decide.
I would have them pull a report on what type, if any, warranty work was performed on this car. Does anyone know if Lincolns CSR can pull this info for a perspective buyer or would the buer have to visit a dealer for it?
If you have it checked by a mechanic have it done at a L/M dealer maybe they can give you the history on it.
I think carfax.com only reports accident history but I since it is used I would cover both bases.
To be safe find out about the car and not solely rely on user experience. The detective work could save you some money heck the sales people may even consider discounting the car by the amount you spend in the process. It is worth a shot and I am sure they will still turn a buck or two.
My son had a 1999 LS--loved the car, but didn't appreciate taking it in every month for warrenty work. You name a problem with the LS; he had it. He recently traded it in on an MDX and didn't get much for the trade. Depreciation is deadly on the LS...
I have a 2000 LS V8 Sport with 33K miles. The following is the repair/warranty history best I can recall w/o my records in front of me.
delivered with a leak in the transmission cooler line. tightened by dealer
recall to check ball-joints
License plate light broken - warranty
click in steering column - warranty
rear window regulators - warranty
present needs
parking brake boot - this will be my next warranty repair on my next visit.
despite "saying the right things" I can't get my dealer to reflash the transmission despite what I feel are the symptoms that it needs it.
I think I'm beginning to smell oil indicating a possible valve cover leak.
I've got warranty coverage until 10-04. I'm hoping I can get these last things in prior to then.
I have never had a car that required so many warranty repairs. These are all relatively minor and didn't affect drivabilty but it's a pain to get the car to the dealer who doesn't know what a loaner is.
I've also never had a car that depreciated as rapidly as the LS does although that's slowed down some.
Having said all of this I actually like the car and plan on keeping it for a while in spite of the above.
I bought my 00 V8 sport in 10-99 for ~$36,000 I think. Resale today on Edmunds is $14,000. So that's $22000 in 4.5 years or $5000/yr. Sounds reasonable to me on a car that costs that much. Would be a lot on a $20,000 car of course.
Am I missing something? People have higher expectations than this? Like what? Thanks.
I had the steering column issue as well and the shop refused to address the issue so I took it up with Lincoln Cust Service and they refused to take action on it as well.
Another weird occurrence is the completely disappearance of oil, I could check it and check it and check it find no leaks or spots on my garage floor and then find out during the next oil change it is all but gone only later to find out that the gaskets have been compromised again. This has occurred twice once under warranty and once out of pocket.
All I can say is become an every present figure at the dealer and be the squeaky wheel.
I can echo the same issues as above except the parking brake boot but now that I have read it I am almost certain to have it happen to me now.... lol
I have been involved with the LS since 2000 when I leased a V8 Sport. I experienced a number of the same problems mentioned here. However, the dealer I leased from and two others (moved twice) treated me and my car with proper care and attention. I turned my 2000 in last August and I now own a 2003 base 6 (bought this one). This is the first time I have ever re-purchased a vehicle, this is the first vehicle I ever considered re-purchasing, regardless of the minor issues and problems I had.
Considering all of the problems and all the joy I've experienced from driving this car the joy won out. Sometimes that's the one main issue to be concerned about, how well do you enjoy driving the car.
"This is the first time I have ever re-purchased a vehicle, this is the first vehicle I ever considered re-purchasing, regardless of the minor issues and problems I had. " - grizzleydad
Same here. I have purchased 19 cars over the years. Imports and domestic. New and used. Closest to a re-purchase was: Owned 2 Grand Prix - 6 model years apart.
- Ray Clearly bought way too many different cars . . .
The TSBs issued to reflash the automatic transmission affected only specific vehicles manufactured within certain time periods. The reflash actually updated the computer code that controls the shift characteristics in the car as it was delivered. If your car was not specifically listed by those TSBs, then you already have the latest computer code and it would make no difference if you got the reflash or not.
So, despite "saying the right things", if your car was not included in the TSB listing, a dealer would be correct in not performing the reflash. I would suggest having the transmission fluid level checked (not an easy thing to accomplish considering it's a sealed unit) to ensure that is not causing the problem.
Comments
A couple of questions I have about the LS:
1) What is the typical gas mileage that the V6 and V8 get. Is there a big difference between the two? What other differences are there between the two? I'd like to get a driver's impression of this rather than what the dealer tells me.
2) The dealer told me that with the V6 premium fuel was optional, but recommended. This didnt sound right to me. Whats the real deal?
3) The LS's that we are looking at are about 2001-2 with about 20-35K on the clock. That leaves about 15-30K or 1 or 2 years of bumper to bumper warranty left. Is the extended warranty worth considering,or are repair expenses usually nominal when the occur (I know that is a loaded question
Thanks in advance.
Don't forget that the V6 handles a little better!
Can someone give me an idea on where this part is, internal or external, has anyone performed this procedure before.
I am an ambitious shade tree mech with the tools but would like to hear from the participants of this forum first. TIA
Also, since the V6 can no longer be purchased with the sport tuned suspension option, the softer springs and smaller anti-sway bar would really put it at a great handling disadvantage to the Sport equipped V-8.
ONLY the '00-'03 manual transmission equipped V-6 (they only came with the sport suspension) could be considered a better handling car, and that's also because the transmission weighs less.
For anyone to claim one model handles better than the other in a blanket statement without mentioning equipment levels or the spare tire provision is REEEALLY stretching it.
Extended warranty: As others have said here and in other forums, this is a highly individual choice and depends largely on how you view risk. A complex and sophisticated electromechanical device (not just a car) can be breathtakingly expensive to have problems diagnosed and repaired out of warranty. Some are comfortable with risking repair bills in the thousands of dollars – a major trans. failure, for instance. I am not. Your call.
Fuel mileage: YMMV! Once broken in, my Y2K I saw hiway mileage (65 – 75 mph, light traffic & relatively steady speeds) of 24 to 25. Off hiway, there are so many variables that I believe any number is unlikely to be something comparable. I could see as low as 17 in Atlanta metro area traffic. But anyone’s experience is likely to be different from yours to some significant degree, due to many factors. My ’03 seems to be able to achieve better highway mileage – 26+ at cruise.
Again: YMMV. And almost certainly will.
- Ray
Ex-owner: Y2K LS8 Sport & current owner: ’03 LS8 Sport
You never know the TCO, true cost of ownership, until you have to pay out of pocket for these sorts of things. My investment in the warranty paid me back 3 fold
statement in the owner's manual. Service manager said there were any number of choices, run with 91 octane all the time, run with regular 87 octane or mix the 2; 1 tank of premium juice, next tank of regular.
Cannot tell you about the LS but none of my Audis could tell the diference between premium and regular juice. Never tried to run anything but the top octane grade when I had my Boxster.
I think I can deal with the nagging over the knocking. Although my wife won't be posting hear I would just like to go ahead with a public apology no just in case. Sorry Dear.
thanks much
The reverse servo is the mechanism used to apply the reverse band. It is basically a piston and rod with rubber seals. Fluid pressure is applied to one end of the piston which forces the servo to apply the reverse band.
Hi Mark - good to hear from you! My tranny is performing very well. (It's due for its 60,000 mile flush in the near future.)
I am wondering if I should replace the rev servo while replacing the servo pack. You mentioned there are multiple servos and when I spoke with the SA he said they replaced the servo pack and the parts folks list a servo pack part number xwyz7g391ac. I can't find my service report from my last visit and am hoping someone else may know if this is the only item i need to replace.
I have found it for as little as 225 dol;ars but the only thing holding me back right now is finding the tool used to refil the tranny. Anyone know eher I may find the refil tool?
I will have my mechanic check out the car to see if I am missing anything else. The only thing I noticed is that the car has a rev limiter when I am in park and trying to rev the engine. When the limiter kicks in, the car starts to shake. Is that normal?
Thanks in advance.
The limiter is not a problem by any means and I will be the first to admit that I love the looks of this car but form should follow function and unfortuneately this is not the case with this automobile.
I have owned many fords, this 1 and only lincoln, and several Nissans including my wifes 03 3.5se altima and I have NEVER been let down as badly by a nissan as I have been with ford and lincoln.
Ultimately you have to decide if there is value in this car and during that process you should consider the total cost of ownership. For me post warranty and extendsed warranty I am over 3000 out of pocket in the last 12 months and about 10k dollars upside down due to this cars inabvility to hold value. Not to mention the 12.5k dollars worth of work done under warranty.
I think for a few more thosand dolllars you could find brand new lincoln ls or at this same price a very reliable Altima that is well equiped.
I had 250k miles on my last Nissan before buying my LS and only had to change the customary belts, oil and brakes.... There is no perfect automobile buty there are those that tend to travel well without costing a lot in maintenance.
I would be happy to detail for you everything my car has had to have repaired if you like. Just let me know and I will give you my email addy.
in closing think about what you really have to spend in terms of maintenance dollars not car payments.
on a technical note....
my a/c keeps blowing fuses and I took some reading today and found that on all accys i am getting about 13.5 volts on them things like ac and fog lights.... and took amperage readings in the ac and found that i am getting about 11.5 to 12 amps at the fuse box and an average of 13volts on the ac.....
I would like to know if these readings are out of tolerance and if so what would be the next component up from these accys that would regulate power and voltage. Somethging to the likes of a voltage regulator from the old shade tree mechanics days.
thanks in advance.
saz1
keep looking boss or run the sales people aground on the price or get them to throw in an extended warranty.
I love my car and the bad thing about things that you love they hurt us the most. good luck
This car will have 9 months or 13K left on the warranty. I dont think extended warranties are worth the money in most cases.
I would say if you are going to drive more than 12k miles a year then go with another. As much I would love to be able to say go get it in my humble opinion I cannot knowing there is not much warranty left on this vehicle. If you are in love with this car and you are not going to use it as a dialy driver then by all means pick it up but if this is not the case let it go cause it will break your heart and your wallet.
happy shopping.
I've got a 2000 model year LS, and it's been THE MOST reliable and trouble-free car I've ever owned, and that includes a 15+ year run of Japanese vehicles. The only issues I've ever had were fogging headlight lenses, and a broken rear-window regulator. Both were fixed under warranty at no cost to me, and neither represented a reliability concern. My transmission was also reflashed early on to address a 1-second or so lag between shifting from Park to Reverse, but that was done per a TSB during a routine oil change. The transmission reflash only affected cars built during the first 8-months or so of initial production in 1999/2000.
My car is 4 years old, still on the original battery (in Phoenix, that's nothing short of miraculous), and I've got 40K miles on it. I think the car is bullet-proof, and would get another if it were stolen or totaled tomorrow.
Problems to look-out for, though, may include leaky valve cover gaskets on the 3.9 liter V-8 engine that could lead to fouling of the coil-on-plug (COP) units; and worn-out front sway-bar bushings that can cause a clunking sound when driving over speed bumps. I'm not aware of anything else that could be considered problematic. I have many friends that drive LS's and most will enthusiastically recommend this car to anyone.
As for prices and option levels, do your home and do the best you can. Good luck.
When I tell you my SA has been very frank with me about the failures of the LS you can take it to the bank. If that isn't enough my neighbor to my left is a lincoln mechanic with 12 years under his wrench and the neighbor to my right own his on auto repair shop, who also owns an LS, and both would concur that the early LS's although they appear to be cut from a fine cloth were in fact not.
The car is great at the curb past that it looks great on the service rack.
I will give you that it is safe 5 stars at every conceivable point iirc but saftey only gets you so far.
nearly 500 dollars for a tune up, 9 window regulators, 3 visits for tranny work to replace the solenoid pack, 2 heat elements for the drivers seat, some repair for the nutty behavior of the hvac controls, now the ac clutch has decide to go bonkers just out of the blue, head light replacement once for fogging but need to be replaced again.... for a luxury car fogged up headlights is becoming at all NOT A GOOD LOOK!
I could keep going and mine is not an isolated case. Maybe if you don't drive your car frequently and you got it on the cheap it isn't such a bad deal. But 16k for an 01 that already has repairs needed isn't worth taking home.
saz1 do some home work..... if you want to think i am a basher come speak to my neighbors they will tell you there isn't a car in the world that is cared for more by an owner. If you want a copy of my service records I'll be happy to give em to you.
You want my phone number to speak to me person to person I'll give it. You want this car get it and establish an escrow account to pay for future repairs.
please don't take offense lola .... as far as being on the same battery well that is something else mate and not a very really compelling reason to buy this car. Put some miles on it and get back to us.
Saz if you are over 55 and will not drive more than 9 to 10k miles a year then this is your car. I guess else keep shopping or have them give you a free extended warranty or at least give it to you at cost which is about 500 dollars for one that will cover you till 80k.
not certain if lola is still an llsoc member but i do recall this member during my membership which I no longer keep due to my obvious lack of enthusiasm I recall valueable contributions here and there so please do not take my comentary as bashing of him or his experiences. I just don't want you to walk away from here with a few positive responses and take it as the standard nor do i want you to not buy an LS god knows if these stop selling the trade in value with go even further south and I can stand to loose any more.
Put it this way.... I would not in concious sell my car nor recommend this car that was built from 99 to 01 to anyone looking for a daily driver that they plan on taking the family out in on family trips.
While I agree, battery longevity is not in-and-of-itself an indicator of low levels of maintenance or problems, it does significantly reduce one of the strongest contributors to overall RELIABILITY.
Gunnersmate, anyone that reads my profile can clearly contact me via my published email address, and it also indicates my status as a FORMER Lincoln LS Owners Club member (and the Arizona Chapter Director to boot!) While I'm no longer a club member, that has nothing to do with my impression of the LS.
Now, if your SA and dealership REALLY had a clue on how to maintain your LS, why on earth would they have changed out the rear window regulator 9 times with an old design that was widely known to be inadequate and was updated, not once, but twice within a 6-month period back in 2002?
Also, while your problems have been experienced by others that own an LS, I haven't heard of anyone with all of them on a single car, and I haven't heard that many people experience them anyway. What I'm saying is that while you seem to have gotten a lemon (all manufacturers make them you know) it is not typical for this automobile. I'm not an advocate for Consumer Reports either, but it's very hard to dispute their data gathering capabilities. Consumer Reports is not known for recommending unreliable cars, are they?
As far as the LS goes, I know of at least 2 people that have more than 100K trouble-free miles on their 2000 model year LS's, and many more with mileage in excess of 70K. Further, while my 40K miles may not seem like very much, I've tracked my car on a few occasions (Phoenix International Raceway, Arizona Motorsports Park, and Waterford Hills in Michigan), and I autocross regularly with the Arizona SCCA, very competitively I might add. Check out the results posting page of the AZ Sports Car Club of America ( http://www.azsolo2.com/cgi-bin/results.cgi? ), and check out my finish results in the Street Tire 1 (ST1) category since July 2002. I submit to you that my 40K miles aren't typical, easy highway ones and maintenance intervals are closely watched. Despite my driving characteristics, my LS has held up very well and I STRONGLY recommend this car to anyone!
While I agree, battery longevity is not in-and-of-itself an indicator of low levels of maintenance or problems, it does significantly reduce one of the strongest contributors to overall RELIABILITY.
Gunnersmate, anyone that reads my profile can clearly contact me via my published email address, and it also indicates my status as a FORMER Lincoln LS Owners Club member (and the Arizona Chapter Director to boot!) While I'm no longer a club member, that has nothing to do with my impression of the LS.
>>> I know... I was trying to pint out that your opinions are valid due to your experience in the LS community here and abroad.
Now, if your SA and dealership REALLY had a clue on how to maintain your LS, why on earth would they have changed out the rear window regulator 9 times with an old design that was widely known to be inadequate and was updated, not once, but twice within a 6-month period back in 2002?
>>> Yeah I have to wonder the same thing but it wasn't for the same window, All 4 windows have had the regulators replaced twice and the front passenger once by me. You raise a good question what don't they know to do a better job by using a more superior part design. I think this should be a question that saz1 ponders while shopping for his car
Also, while your problems have been experienced by others that own an LS, I haven't heard of anyone with all of them on a single car, and I haven't heard that many people experience them anyway. What I'm saying is that while you seem to have gotten a lemon (all manufacturers make them you know) it is not typical for this automobile. I'm not an advocate for Consumer Reports either, but it's very hard to dispute their data gathering capabilities. Consumer Reports is not known for recommending unreliable cars, are they?
>>>> I am sure they produced more than one lemon and I would like to know what the ratio is not only for my sake but for others considering this car. As far as consumer reports goes I am sure they work as hard as they can to get real world data but a report based on a fixed cross section of consumers will only get you so far. I am here to report that my experience is not great and know other consumers that aren't very pleased and maybe my case is extrodinary. That said I have reservations when reccommending this car.
As far as the LS goes, I know of at least 2 people that have more than 100K trouble-free miles on their 2000 model year LS's, and many more with mileage in excess of 70K. Further, while my 40K miles may not seem like very much, I've tracked my car on a few occasions (Phoenix International Raceway, Arizona Motorsports Park, and Waterford Hills in Michigan), and I autocross regularly with the Arizona SCCA, very competitively I might add. Check out the results posting page of the AZ Sports Car Club of America ( http://www.azsolo2.com/cgi-bin/results.cgi? ), and check out my finish results in the Street Tire 1 (ST1) category since July 2002. I submit to you that my 40K miles aren't typical, easy highway ones and maintenance intervals are closely watched. Despite my driving characteristics, my LS has held up very well and I STRONGLY recommend this car to anyone!
>>>>>> I certainly hope this trend is the standard becasue I plan to get out of this car in the not so distant future and would like to see a stable market for its resale.
There are pro's and con's in all products and I think that this car is rich in features and obviously I found value in them at one point in my life.
SAZ1 I know that lolaj42 is a good poster here and does have plenty of experience with this car. In no way was my commentary aimed at usurping his standing or value here.
Unlike some other places.
So I really need to be asking what component is in charge of controlling power to the accys or is it that the AC is purposefully drawing this kind of power and if this is the case what should I set my focus on in the troubleshooting process. Thank in advance.
One of the most important lessons I've learned since buying American again is that the dealership plays a much larger role in overall satisfaction of the car ownership experience than I had previously imagined. Luckily for me, I've had excellent dealership support, but not because I'm such a great guy or that I had previous connections at the dealerships.
My participation on discussion boards have educated me greatly on the attributes and idiosyncrasies of the LS as well as how to "manage" the dealership service department. It also helps to know a few Lincoln/Ford engineers and discover how things are "supposed" to work when they were originally designed. Armed with this mind-set and information, I am far more prepared to interface with the dealership Service Advisors, Managers, and Technicians to get my service needs met. Unfortunately, I don't think the average consumer has that sort of insight and typically prefers the nanny state treatment provided by Lexus (and pays for it with higher sales prices).
As far as resale values go, as long as the American car makers are forced into buying market share through incentives, resale values of their products will continue to remain low. However, educated consumers aware of this are better able to negotiate a lower purchase/lease price, so the actual $ depreciation level (rather than % depreciation) isn't quite as bad.
Rebates are typically needed to move cars when there is too much inventory (caused by the need to keep union workers and plants employed), not because of the perceived quality or lack thereof. Lincoln's quality is above average and a Lincoln LS at today's prices is a screaming bargain if that's the type of vehicle you're looking for.
Just because you had a lemon and others had some problems with early 2000 models is not enough evidence for you to say they're not reliable vehicles. For every lemon we have owners with 100k+ miles with almost no problems whatsoever. The average is somewhere in between. They're not perfect but they are certainly not terrible either.
Why don't you just say you got a lemon and you hate it and don't recommend it and leave it at that? Let others tell their experience which may be just the opposite and let the buyer decide.
If you have it checked by a mechanic have it done at a L/M dealer maybe they can give you the history on it.
I think carfax.com only reports accident history but I since it is used I would cover both bases.
To be safe find out about the car and not solely rely on user experience. The detective work could save you some money heck the sales people may even consider discounting the car by the amount you spend in the process. It is worth a shot and I am sure they will still turn a buck or two.
delivered with a leak in the transmission cooler line. tightened by dealer
recall to check ball-joints
License plate light broken - warranty
click in steering column - warranty
rear window regulators - warranty
present needs
parking brake boot - this will be my next warranty repair on my next visit.
despite "saying the right things" I can't get my dealer to reflash the transmission despite what I feel are the symptoms that it needs it.
I think I'm beginning to smell oil indicating a possible valve cover leak.
I've got warranty coverage until 10-04. I'm hoping I can get these last things in prior to then.
I have never had a car that required so many warranty repairs. These are all relatively minor and didn't affect drivabilty but it's a pain to get the car to the dealer who doesn't know what a loaner is.
I've also never had a car that depreciated as rapidly as the LS does although that's slowed down some.
Having said all of this I actually like the car and plan on keeping it for a while in spite of the above.
autodimming rearview mirror - replaced under warranty
Am I missing something? People have higher expectations than this? Like what? Thanks.
Another weird occurrence is the completely disappearance of oil, I could check it and check it and check it find no leaks or spots on my garage floor and then find out during the next oil change it is all but gone only later to find out that the gaskets have been compromised again. This has occurred twice once under warranty and once out of pocket.
All I can say is become an every present figure at the dealer and be the squeaky wheel.
I can echo the same issues as above except the parking brake boot but now that I have read it I am almost certain to have it happen to me now.... lol
Considering all of the problems and all the joy I've experienced from driving this car the joy won out. Sometimes that's the one main issue to be concerned about, how well do you enjoy driving the car.
Knowing what you know about the 00' would you recommend someone buy a used 00?
Same here. I have purchased 19 cars over the years. Imports and domestic. New and used. Closest to a re-purchase was: Owned 2 Grand Prix - 6 model years apart.
- Ray
Clearly bought way too many different cars . . .
Not a '00.
- Ray
Bought '00 - and '03
So, despite "saying the right things", if your car was not included in the TSB listing, a dealer would be correct in not performing the reflash. I would suggest having the transmission fluid level checked (not an easy thing to accomplish considering it's a sealed unit) to ensure that is not causing the problem.