is meticulously maintained to the nth detail. I regularly autocross my LS with the Arizona SCCA in the Solo II program, and I regularly trophy. I even have an extra set of 17-inch rims and have R-compound race tires mounted on them now. I'd place my car up against ANY LS, regardless of model year with more 20K miles (mine has 38K miles) to see which is better maintained and has fewer blemishes. This car is tight and kicks butt.
"Your odds of getting an LS that was "abused" by being driven as it was intended by the team that designed and developed it are sadly very, very slim. "
My last 2000 LS8 was majorly "hot rodded" (but yet, not ornate or ghetto-fied in appearance) and easily lasted up to 120K when I traded it in for a newer LS. I pity the victim that bought it considering the tremendous abuse the vehicle undertook, and only item that died was the alternator at around 100K. But aside from the engine and wheel modifications and much more soundproofing (I dislike any type of noise), they person would be hard pressed to know it's hot-rodded unless they looked under the hood.
So maybe buying one from some little old lady might quell some concerns.
I don't abuse my car, but I do drive it the way the engineers intended it to be driven. Other than wearing out tires and break pads quicker, theorhetically there should not be any more mechanical damage than if the car was driven by a little old lady to and from church every Sunday. Thats not saying if I were buying used and had to choose between the two extremes that I wouldn't go with the lesser "abused" model, but if a car(any car) is engineered well, it should be able to take agressive(not abussive) driving. My 01 LS V8 now has 34K on it and while I have no idea how it was driven prior to me buying it at 26K, I do know it has handled the last 8000 miles with no problem. Again, I don't abuse my car but you won't catch my LS puttering along like a Town Car either.
I'm spoiled by the rain sensing wipers too. I have never had that feature on a car before and never thought much of it, but now I like it. From what I've heard they were discontinued on 04s, but I've seen some pictures of 04s and they have the little black box on the windshield behind the rearview mirror. Maybe Lincoln changed their mind.
I'm pretty sure they're already gone. If you go into Lincoln's web site they do not come up, even as an option. Wipers are :speed sensitive, variable intermittent. Lincoln has apparently chosen to delete them.
I have them in my '03, and I've grown to like them.
As an aside, I read in R&T yesterday that the the BMW 5 series has made rain sensitive wipers standard in the new ones.
Yes they have them. The perception though, is nobody knows how to use them. Not sure I agree, but I did have to show my nephew in his X5 how to use them - he had no clue.
Were (unfortunately) deleted in December 2003. So, the early 04s have them and the later ones don't. The rain sensing wipers on the 03 and newer vehicles are much better than the earlier models.
Having a 2k LS, does the fuel system (which is under pressure) need to be depressurized/repressurized when replacing the fuel filter? The workshop manual suggests it does, but I'm hoping that isn't mandatory.... thanks for any tips!
If you don't depressurize the fuel line before attempting to change the filter, be prepared for a "fuel shower". Do yourself a favor, take the 3-4 minutes, remove the plastic engine cover, hit the Schrader valve, and relieve the fuel pressure. You'll be happy you did....
I don't know how others in the LS enthusiast crowd feel about it, but I'm a little disappointed to see a Cadillac CTS running in the 12-Hours of Sebring, as well as a 400-hp variant that anyone off the street can buy while the LS continues to be a no-show.
Cadillac not only got the message of what Americans are looking for in a sedan, but they also executed the plan.
Lincoln got the message sure enough, but they surely haven't executed anything . . . except maybe the LS.
I'll certainly be watching to see how the CTS performs this weekend in Sebring with flag to flag coverage on Speed Channel.
Remember, the CTS is new. The new product always gets all the attention. Until it's not new anymore. And it doesn't always have anything to do with whether or not it's good. Remember when the 79 Mustang made the Indy pace car? That wasn't a great car.....but it was new.
here and elsewhere, it all comes down to tires, and Explorers. After all the lawsuits, retrofits and redesigns associated with the Firestone fiasco, FoMoCo didn't have the money anymore that was going to be used to send the LS on much the same trail that the CTS is now negotiating, at least in terms of model variants.
With all the money in the world though, I'm not sure Lincoln would have kept and improved the manual (6-speed overdrive, manual V8), or put the LS in Sebring. So far, it appears Cadillac is. Interesting.
FYI - a group of Lincoln engineers built a 375 hp supercharged 4.6L V8 LS and entered it in the upcoming One Lap of America race. It's also being sponsored by a group of LS enthusiasts. Details:
The OLOA LS has a 4.6L 2 valve supercharged engine rated at 375hp and 380 ft-lbs of torque. It has an automatic transmission though not a LS transmission. It has a Torsen torque-sensing locking differential. It also has a Mustang Mach 1 shaker hood scoop on it. The supercharger is putting out a modest 6 pounds of boost since reliability is more of a concern than total horsepower output for this event.
Front brakes are from a Mustang Cobra. Shocks may be the project car Leda shocks with Eibach springs.
You can get more details from www.ford.com in the near future (not posted yet). Rumor has it in-car video will be available from one of the vehicle sponsors. Email me for more details.
This is the shot-in-the arm exposure that the LS has needed! Check out the website and the dates.
If there is a lot of support then maybe the minds at Ford and Lincoln will cut the engineers loose to build that competition for the M5, S-Type-R, and CTS-V.
While I applaud the efforts of these Lincoln engineers (I've personally met Chet and rode with him in a development LS on the Waterford Hills road course in Michigan), and I sincerely wish them success in their effort, the LS they're driving resembles no LS anyone could ever get their hands on. Further, any result (favorable or not) they may get would be somewhat muted because they're not necessarily going up against competition that consumers can relate to.
Now, if you're looking into REAL racing, Cadillac just made a huge splash today by capturing the pole position for their class (SPEED World Challenge GT) in the 12-hours of Sebring, and shattered the course record in doing so. Here's a link to check out . . .
As much as I HATE the overall design AND drivability of the CTS, this is something that leaves an un-mistakenly positive impact on the consumer and would make any performance enthusiast sit up and take notice. I'll be watching the coverage this weekend and muttering something about what SHOULD have been . . .
If you read the post here in the Edmunds CTS-V forum you'll see that the other racers are convinced that Cadillac BOUGHT the series! (also...They are the main sponsor of it!) Case in point: Engine parts from next years Vette Non-standard engine setback Tubular lowered chassis Custom fenders and on and on .... And God bless em.... I guess winning is everything?!?
The OLOA SC LS is more important as a means to generate enthusiasm for the Hi-Po LS overall concept. If there is enough interest then FLM may just set those fine engineers loose to build some competition for the S-Type R and the CTS-V.
Don't get me wrong I have driven a new CTS-V on the El Toro Air Base Cadillac course, and it is a KILLER machine. You really should drive one! They become suddenly less fugly!! But the CTS race car is a million miles away from a stock -V!
"the LS they're driving resembles no LS anyone could ever get their hands on"
True. And yet Chevy (NASCAR) to Ferrari (F1, etc.) all compete in racing where the machines that compete clearly does not resemble anything a customer can purchase.
And yet, they spend millions to hundreds of millions, in expectation that it will have a positive effect.
Cheers, - Ray Looking forward to most anything that might ‘improve the breed’ – of cars I am interested in buying and could afford. (that lets out any current production Ferrari, for instance!)
Well my beloved 2000 LS V6 Sport sputters during acceleration. I have 92K miles, I modified the air box and installed the magna flow exhaust several months ago. I had the tune up done last year about this time and this problem is fairly recent. I had been pumping chevron techron 93 octane here in Fl and recently, in fact today, hit the mobil gas station and pumped their 93 oct gas.
I honestly do not recall this happening during prior drives but for the last week and a half I have been driving my 96 ford contour to and from work to ensure it is road worthy before I sell it this weekend.
I do not recall having the fuel filter replaced at any point during my ownership and would like to know if it or the fact that I changed fuel could lead to this happening. The car idles fine and once it is committed to acceleration it seems to cease sputtering.
With all due respect Jay, the CTS-V in the World Challenge is FAR more a CTS-V than the LS being campaigned in the OLOA. You can't even get a supercharger, let alone a 4.6 liter V-8 engine in the LS, nor the Torsen Differential, nor the Mustang Cobra Brakes, nor the Leda suspension, . . . The engine in the CTS-V, while being race tuned, is quite similar to what Cadillac puts into them (so what if parts are from next year's engine . . . ), the 14-inch Brembo brakes are the same, as is the 6-speed Tremec manual transmission.
Also, how many people really know what the OLOA really is? And while it may be a competition, it certainly ISN'T racing! Sorry, but I don't see the OLOA as being a venue that will showcase the LS in anywhere near the same light at the SPEED World Challenge, and it certainly won't generate anywhere near the enthusiasm. Any privateer can cobble together a unique, one-off vehicle to compete in OLOA (i.e., vehicle can bear no resemblance to what can be purchased at a dealer), the events are too few, and it's still not racing.
On the other hand, the SPEED World Challenge is a well-defined series that "provides teams and manufacturers a competitive arena for production-based race cars." Sure the chassis is tubular, but this is RACING and safety concessions have to be made. How many Lincoln LS enthusiasts would like to see an LS in THIS series? I would.
As far as NASCAR is concerned, I think the manufacturers intent is to push the brand name more than anything else. The engines are pretty low-tech (they have carburators for cripes sake). Formula One is ALL about cutting edge technology that does eventually filter down to production vehicles . . . ever hear how the LS has Formula One inspired suspension components?
Don't get me wrong here either folks . . . I'm glad Lincoln is doing SOMETHING and I wish them well in OLOA, but let's face it, it's a spit in the ocean compared to what Cadillac is doing.
Yes Allen, I familiar with that car. I rode as a passenger in it with Chet in the parade laps at Waterford Hills when learnig the race line of the course.
I agree that the OLOA is better than nothing, but I'm afraid this effort is too little, too late. As far as "tweaks" go, I think that comment is a HUGE understatement.
Here's a link to the SPEED World Challenge Series and the rules regarding homologation
I didn't see anything like this on the OLOA site, but please correct me here if I didn't check closely enough.
Oh, sorry, I found what I was looking for . . . verification that virtually anything goes in OLOA . . . click on the FAQ link once you get to the following page . . .
A couple of folks have said something like this: "The OLOA SC LS is more important as a means to generate enthusiasm for the Hi-Po LS overall concept. If there is enough interest then FLM may just set those fine engineers loose to build some competition for the S-Type R and the CTS-V."
I am rather underwhelmed by OLOA and the sentiment expressed above. First, although OLOA is described as a "storied event" elsewhere, who the heck has ever heard of it and who cares? I agree with Chris, there should be an LS in a REAL race. But there isn't and probably never will be.
As for generating enthusiam, there have been numerous times over the past 3-4 years when a couple dozen or more LS owners and enthusiasts had the ears and attention of the TOP people at Lincoln and we CLAMORED for a performance version of the LS. What have we gotten for our efforts? - A butt-ugly "LS" with a wing entered in a "race" around the country. (Race?) - A prototype with a 4.6 liter that is now 3 years old and has gone nowhere but a few laps around the proving ground. - After 4 years a boost in HP of about 10% - up to ALMOST the HP that the Jag S-type debuted with in 2000 - The "LSE". - And finally, NO MORE MANUAL TRANNY.
I'm sorry, folks, and y'all do know that I'm pretty fond of my "Dura-Get" LS, but Lincoln has BLOWN this badly. Look at Cadillac - from nowhere with the Catera when the LS debuted to a 400HP KILLER machine 4 years later. Available ONLY with a manual tranny (the -V I mean. The ordinary CTS is available with an auto or a manual.) Enormous buzz, a theme for for their styling - love ot or leave it, it's consistent and they're getting noticed. I refer you here for another man's opinion: http://www.autoextremist.com/
While you're on autoextrmeist, check out the rant about marketing. Chrysler is singled out, but how much of that applies to Lincoln marketing?
Hey, putting it all together, here's my new suggestion for the LS slogan:
Okay, today I took my LS in for the 35K service(last one that Lincoln will be picking up the tab on) and since it was a nice day, I decided to look around on the lot. They had about 12-14 2004 LSs, most of them V8s. I specifically looked to see if they had the automatic wipers. About half of them did. The little black box behind the mirror(which btw is a bit different looking than the one on my 2001) and the wiper switch had an "auto" position in those models. The others had no box and no auto position. And one of those was a V8 sport with the LSE package so I guess it is correct that Lincoln has dropped this feature on later models. If you want it, look for an 04 that has it as there are some that do. The cars were locked and I was never approached by a salesman so I couldn't see the build date on the models that had the auto wipers. Maybe if enough potential(and current) customers voice their concerns to Lincoln, they will bring the feature back, at least as an option.
On another note, I looked at a couple of Aviators. First off, I am kind of surprised this SUV isn't selling better than it is. IMO, it is a better size than the gigantic Navigator and unlike most luxury SUVs that are based on lesser models, the Aviator's interior looks like a true Lincoln. It's really hard to tell that it is a dressed up Explorer. I only had one complaint with the Aviator's interior, the front seats have manual recliners. While this may be fine for the Explorer or even Mountaineer, a Lincoln deserves power recliners. Otherwise, it's a nice truck. If Lincoln would put the Aviator's style of instrumentation in the LS, it would really jazz things up even more. And I'll say, the instruments in the 03-04 models look more upscale than my 01.
This is a common condition.... not necessarily your car's problem but...
Mine did too.
It seems that when I had leaking o-ring gaskets in the valve cover it filled the sparkplug and coil-on-plug with oil and caused a fouling (missing) condition.
By cleaning the COP and plug area I was able to temporarily "fix" the condition until I get around to replace the gaskets.....for me a little project in itself.
If your car is under warranty, have the dealer examine this. If not... Good Luck. I'll be saving myself a few hundred bucks by doing it myself.
v8lincolnguy said: On another note, I looked at a couple of Aviators. First off, I am kind of surprised this SUV isn't selling better than it is. *** Actually it is selling pretty well. Not as well as the Navigator, but fairly close. ***
IMO, it is a better size than the gigantic Navigator *** I agree, sortof. When I went out at the end of 2003 to replace my big family vehicle (my LS 5 speed is my commute car aminly) I had every intention of getting an Aviator. Took the whole bunch (5 of us, 2 in car seats) to test the fit. The good news is we all got into the first 2 rows, which was a requirement for me. Also, the Aviator is a wunderbar driving machine. Very quick, crisp handling good ride. Very impressive. But the bad news was - the 3 kids were cramped in the 2nd row, there wan't much room behind the 2nd row for 'stuff' and worst of all, I just felt cramped and uncomfortable in the driver's seat. I tried and tried to gey comfy, drove the vehicle 3 times, seat in various positions but I just kept feeling uncomfortable. Then I figured I might as well drive the Navigator siting right next to the Aviator while I was there. The Nav was not even on my radar screen when I went out to look. Too big and probably too clumsy and stodgy on the road I figured. Well lemme tell ya, that ain't so. From the first when I pulled out of the dealership and zipped across 3 lanes and into the left turn lane and down a rough backstreet, I was impressed. This vehicle rocks! It's pretty peppy (though the Aviator has it beat handily in the speed dept) it handles really well, very little body roll, steering is awesome and the ride is just great. And the icing was I felt great in the driver's seat, there is plenty of room for the 2 car seats and the teenager in the 2nd row and there's a ton of room left behind that row for all the gear we needed for a week long trip to So Cal 2 days after we bought it. We all love it, and it really doesn't feel that big at all when u're driving it. Though parking can be tight - but it's got a great little button u push and the side view mirrors fold in to save room. Anyway, just wanted to point out I felt just as you do, but for my needs the Nav was the only choice.
Oh, and the interior is fantastic. Better than anything else out there, IMHO. And, the seat recliners are power!
Somehow the discussion of the OLOA LS turned into a why Cadillac’s program is better!
Some of us are just happy to finally see some life at Lincoln!
Can it remotely compare to the HUGE financial frontal assault on the automotive marketplace as Cadillac has displayed? Absolutely not!
And it’s not been pleasant seeing European and Japanese automakers declare war in the American marketplace without seeing an attempt at competing by FLM. The Mustang, F150 and the GT are not the Lincoln LS but they are getting all the corporate juice
Eyes wide open here As most of the LS owners on the enthusiast’s boards know, the CTS-V is almost an exact execution of the spec we collectively had described for a Hi-Po LS! And that alone is serious grounds for disenchantment.
As some of you may recall last summer, it was my 12 year-old son who asked the Lincoln brass just what they were going to do in light of Cadillac’s building of the CTS-V. Regrettably and predictably, they had no response.
But hope springs eternal and many folks are really not willing to write off the potential of Lincoln in building that flagship Hi-Po sedan. As we all know the talent is there and all it takes is one major VP to green-light the project. Cadillac has nothing without Bob Lutz. He is only ONE man. He is a car guy. He makes sh*t happen. They are nowhere without Bob . And I hope they know it! He enables good things to occur and inspires creative people to excel.
This little OLOA “race” is a grass roots effort and it would be great to see Lincoln LS owners show up at the events and support the guys. Many of us will be there to support them. It is important for the “suits” at FLM to know that there is a passion for the LS and a hi-po version of it.
God knows that it’s very easy to be negative here . If the LS and hi-po variant does a fade-to-black then for sure many current owners will be driving other brands and Lincoln will have turned their first time Lincoln owners into one-time-only Lincoln owners.
It's just that some of us are just not willing to have that as the outcome without a little fight and a little show of support. ; -)
funk - Yes, my LS post was certainly a wee bit on the negative side. I'll cop to that. But it's hard to be positive about a high performance LS when Lincoln shows very little to No interest in making one. Further, who are they going to sell them to? Sure, you and I and some others here (and There) would want one, but who else? I mean, look at the manual transmission fiasco. Lincoln had the foresight to make it an option, but the dealers wouldn't stock them or even ORDER one for a paying customer in some cases. Would a hipo fare any better? Maybe it would, especially in light of the CTS-V, but I dunno.
Sorry to go negative, but that's the way I see it. Way back when, Jim Rogers generated so much excitement in many of us with his pronouncements about 5 new Lincolns coming down the pike in the next 3 years. Well, 3 years have come and gone and what do we have? One new vehicle - the Aviator - which is pretty much best in it's class, but certainly didn't take a whole lot of design and engineering to come up with it. Heck - scale down the Navigator drawings and - voila!
And they are adding another vehicle soon of similar design strategy - a full-size Lincoln pick up truck based on the F-150. It's almost an exact duplicate in fact, except for the "signature Lincoln waterfall grille" - which we recently learned may be going the way of the "American Luxury" tag line, to be replaced by a 1961 grille. Lincoln hasn't even replaced the F-150 interior with something like the Nav or Avi. I really don't understand the logic behind this vehicle other than "what can we get into the showrooms the fastest?" As for cars ... well they're talking about a smaller car based on a MAZDA chassis fer cripes sake, but who's seen it? They've presented 3 or 4 "concept" cars and most were basically panned and none really showed a great deal of design theme kinship with the next and none showed much kinship with what's already in the showroom. The only one that received better than average buzz was the Mark 10 convertible - and I've already read a Lincoln executive saying basically 'well, we really don't like it and most likely will not build it.' Does anyone know or even have a strong feeling about the fate of the LS and DEW-98 after 2005? From what I hear, DEW-98 is going to Jag and Lincoln gets the Mazda chassis. The most positive thing I can say is "I hope the heck that ain't true."
"Lincoln hasn't even replaced the F-150 interior with something like the Nav or Avi. I really don't understand the logic behind this vehicle other than "what can we get into the showrooms the fastest?""
I can vouche for this strategy. Same situation that happened with the initial Navigator. Nothing but a dolled up Expedition, then as Ford saw the market was accepting the vehicle, then through-out the years they would improve them in ways to differentiate it from the Expedition. Since the Mark LT will be pretty much in the same situation, I'm sure that when the 2nd generation is launched (and the market accepts it) then they'll differentiate it as time passes.
"From what I hear, DEW-98 is going to Jag and Lincoln gets the Mazda chassis. The most positive thing I can say is "I hope the heck that ain't true."
You are correct, although Ford will is thinking of using another platform for another new flagship, possible the Panther (which is what the Crown Vic, Grand Marquis, TownCar ride on), or Volvo's P2 platform. AND one more platform as well (RWD based).
Just gotta give it time, although I do agree with your frustration, you should hear mine heh....
I really wanted to buy an American car to replace our 95 Suburban which ate gas, brakes, engines for lunch. My 12 y/o son said...Hey Dad why don't you look at a Honda Pilot? I said...a what?
Having had very good experiences with 2 Acuras I thought I'd give it a try. Every report, shootout etc... was glowing with accolades. So we got one and it seats 3 in the 3rd row seat. So the kids love the dual zone entertainment system, wireless phones, DVD etc.. and my wife loves the way it drives...and the spaciousness for its class is beyond belief! It has more room inside than the Volvo XC90! Its track is stable as it is as wide as our old Suburban. As a Honda its engine likes to rev. So towing with 6 passengers and a 4000lb boat through the Majave Desert in August was a real kick because it suprised the hell out of me! In 40,000 miles it has been a flawless vehicle so far. I recently rented a Chevy Trailblazer and I again realized that we had made the right decision.
Well, I'll chime in for the Aviator. The ride, handling, engine performance, and interior are all fantastic. Unfortunately, I've also had a few teething problems with our 47 day old AWD Ultimate Aviator. Shortly after taking delivery, I discovered I could not engage the AWD locked mode for off-road use (Yes, this baby has already been off road and will again on many future occasions). The problem was due to a Ford Explorer 4X4 electronic module being mistakenly installed at the St. Louis Assembly line. The next problem was from the Denso Navigation System that couldn't navigate its way out of a paper bag. The dealer has already replaced every single aspect of the system . . . first the head unit and the Navigation module and then, a week later, the GPS antenna. Everything finally seems to be in good working order now (knocking wood), but it's been in the shop for 10 of the first 45 days . . . obviously an inauspicious start.
The gas mileage is approaching 20 mpg on the highway while cruising at 75 mph, but mostly about 15 in mostly surface street driving. Power, handling, ride comfort, and overall cabin comfort are top notch and I LOVE THE COOLED seats!!!! It was 95°F yesterday here in Phoenix, and the cooled seats worked great . . . which is probably the biggest reason we went with the Ultimate package.
Near me in Central NJ they are selling a '04 LS that stickers for $41K plus for $27580, V8 and nicely equipped. My question is, how would one estimate this vehicle used in a year or two. Off the sticker price (I know the dealer would) or from the sales price. This same car may go for near $27580 2 years fom now! I know there are no crystal balls in the car business, but, I think I will try and research this a bit further. Either way, this deal or the base V6 for $25K seem like a good deal if someone is looking to buy. I am not yet ready but I must admit I am enjoying the research! The LS is a good looking machine.
is based a lot on what the same car is selling for new. Assuming the new ones are selling for close to that price in 2 years your resale will be much lower. Why would anyone pay that for a 2 year old car when they can get a new one for the same price? I'd guess $18K-$20K.
resale be damned! The real beauty of this car is under the skin, and it's way underrated at this point, but mark my words, it will become famous and sought after in later years as the true value of the car becomes understood.
For that reason, the residual is really low, and the lease payments are really high, so they're not easily leased. I wouldn't..... I can lease a Navigator for less per month.
I love my car but due to the overwhelming depreciation incurred on my LS I will not be going back to the the lincoln stables when it comes time to buy my next horse. I love this car but hate being a loser even greater and I really feel like a loser when I reflect on the value of this automobile.
...I initally felt the same way, as my 2000 LS8 is depreciating faster than a rock in the ocean. On the other hand, it's still a great car with just over 30,000 miles. It should last quite a bit longer.
I'm sure that's not what the Lincoln marketing people want to hear. However, at my age, and given a recent shake-up where I work, I'm not assuming a huge debt just to have a new car. The 2000 fits our needs just fine.
Comments
My last 2000 LS8 was majorly "hot rodded" (but yet, not ornate or ghetto-fied in appearance) and easily lasted up to 120K when I traded it in for a newer LS. I pity the victim that bought it considering the tremendous abuse the vehicle undertook, and only item that died was the alternator at around 100K. But aside from the engine and wheel modifications and much more soundproofing (I dislike any type of noise), they person would be hard pressed to know it's hot-rodded unless they looked under the hood.
So maybe buying one from some little old lady might quell some concerns.
I have them in my '03, and I've grown to like them.
As an aside, I read in R&T yesterday that the the BMW 5 series has made rain sensitive wipers standard in the new ones.
The workshop manual suggests it does, but I'm hoping that isn't mandatory.... thanks for any tips!
Cadillac not only got the message of what Americans are looking for in a sedan, but they also executed the plan.
Lincoln got the message sure enough, but they surely haven't executed anything . . . except maybe the LS.
I'll certainly be watching to see how the CTS performs this weekend in Sebring with flag to flag coverage on Speed Channel.
With all the money in the world though, I'm not sure Lincoln would have kept and improved the manual (6-speed overdrive, manual V8), or put the LS in Sebring. So far, it appears Cadillac is. Interesting.
So here we sit, on the sidelines, watching.
The OLOA LS has a 4.6L 2 valve supercharged engine rated at 375hp and 380 ft-lbs of torque. It has an automatic transmission though not a LS transmission. It has a Torsen torque-sensing locking differential. It also has a Mustang Mach 1 shaker hood scoop on it. The supercharger is putting out a modest 6 pounds of boost since reliability is more of a concern than total horsepower output for this event.
Front brakes are from a Mustang Cobra. Shocks may be the project car Leda shocks with Eibach springs.
You can get more details from www.ford.com in the near future (not posted yet). Rumor has it in-car video will be available from one of the vehicle sponsors. Email me for more details.
In the highly-competitive Mid-Priced Sedan Class, 2003 Lincoln LS
will be driven by Lincoln Engineers Chet Dhruna, Matthew List,and Jaime Venezia.
http://www.onelapofamerica.com/
This is the shot-in-the arm exposure that the LS has needed! Check out the website and the dates.
If there is a lot of support then maybe the minds at Ford and Lincoln will cut the engineers loose to build that competition for the M5, S-Type-R, and CTS-V.
Stay Tuned!; - )
Now, if you're looking into REAL racing, Cadillac just made a huge splash today by capturing the pole position for their class (SPEED World Challenge GT) in the 12-hours of Sebring, and shattered the course record in doing so. Here's a link to check out . . .
http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/roadracing/10276/?from=[HOME- ]
As much as I HATE the overall design AND drivability of the CTS, this is something that leaves an un-mistakenly positive impact on the consumer and would make any performance enthusiast sit up and take notice. I'll be watching the coverage this weekend and muttering something about what SHOULD have been . . .
If you read the post here in the Edmunds CTS-V forum you'll see that the other racers are convinced that Cadillac BOUGHT the series!
(also...They are the main sponsor of it!)
Case in point:
Engine parts from next years Vette
Non-standard engine setback
Tubular lowered chassis
Custom fenders and on and on ....
And God bless em.... I guess winning is everything?!?
The OLOA SC LS is more important as a means to generate enthusiasm for the Hi-Po LS overall concept.
If there is enough interest then FLM may just set those fine engineers loose to build some competition for the S-Type R and the CTS-V.
Don't get me wrong
I have driven a new CTS-V on the El Toro Air Base Cadillac course, and it is a KILLER machine. You really should drive one! They become suddenly less fugly!!
But the CTS race car is a million miles away from a stock -V!
True. And yet Chevy (NASCAR) to Ferrari (F1, etc.) all compete in racing where the machines that compete clearly does not resemble anything a customer can purchase.
And yet, they spend millions to hundreds of millions, in expectation that it will have a positive effect.
Cheers,
- Ray
Looking forward to most anything that might ‘improve the breed’ – of cars I am interested in buying and could afford.
(that lets out any current production Ferrari, for instance!)
Well my beloved 2000 LS V6 Sport sputters during acceleration. I have 92K miles, I modified the air box and installed the magna flow exhaust several months ago. I had the tune up done last year about this time and this problem is fairly recent. I had been pumping chevron techron 93 octane here in Fl and recently, in fact today, hit the mobil gas station and pumped their 93 oct gas.
I honestly do not recall this happening during prior drives but for the last week and a half I have been driving my 96 ford contour to and from work to ensure it is road worthy before I sell it this weekend.
I do not recall having the fuel filter replaced at any point during my ownership and would like to know if it or the fact that I changed fuel could lead to this happening. The car idles fine and once it is committed to acceleration it seems to cease sputtering.
Thanks in advance.
Also, how many people really know what the OLOA really is? And while it may be a competition, it certainly ISN'T racing! Sorry, but I don't see the OLOA as being a venue that will showcase the LS in anywhere near the same light at the SPEED World Challenge, and it certainly won't generate anywhere near the enthusiasm. Any privateer can cobble together a unique, one-off vehicle to compete in OLOA (i.e., vehicle can bear no resemblance to what can be purchased at a dealer), the events are too few, and it's still not racing.
On the other hand, the SPEED World Challenge is a well-defined series that "provides teams and manufacturers a competitive arena for production-based race cars." Sure the chassis is tubular, but this is RACING and safety concessions have to be made. How many Lincoln LS enthusiasts would like to see an LS in THIS series? I would.
As far as NASCAR is concerned, I think the manufacturers intent is to push the brand name more than anything else. The engines are pretty low-tech (they have carburators for cripes sake). Formula One is ALL about cutting edge technology that does eventually filter down to production vehicles . . . ever hear how the LS has Formula One inspired suspension components?
Don't get me wrong here either folks . . . I'm glad Lincoln is doing SOMETHING and I wish them well in OLOA, but let's face it, it's a spit in the ocean compared to what Cadillac is doing.
Chris - it's the same car you saw at Waterford (winged wonder?) but obviously with a new engine and other tweaks.
I agree that the OLOA is better than nothing, but I'm afraid this effort is too little, too late. As far as "tweaks" go, I think that comment is a HUGE understatement.
Here's a link to the SPEED World Challenge Series and the rules regarding homologation
http://www.world-challenge.com/seriesfacts.html
and another link regarding allowable modifications to make the series competitive and safe.
http://www.world-challenge.com/carfacts.html
I didn't see anything like this on the OLOA site, but please correct me here if I didn't check closely enough.
Oh, sorry, I found what I was looking for . . . verification that virtually anything goes in OLOA . . . click on the FAQ link once you get to the following page . . .
http://www.onelapofamerica.com/
"The OLOA SC LS is more important as a means to generate enthusiasm for the Hi-Po LS overall concept.
If there is enough interest then FLM may just set those fine engineers loose to build some competition for the S-Type R and the CTS-V."
I am rather underwhelmed by OLOA and the sentiment expressed above. First, although OLOA is described as a "storied event" elsewhere, who the heck has ever heard of it and who cares? I agree with Chris, there should be an LS in a REAL race. But there isn't and probably never will be.
As for generating enthusiam, there have been numerous times over the past 3-4 years when a couple dozen or more LS owners and enthusiasts had the ears and attention of the TOP people at Lincoln and we CLAMORED for a performance version of the LS. What have we gotten for our efforts?
- A butt-ugly "LS" with a wing entered in a "race" around the country. (Race?)
- A prototype with a 4.6 liter that is now 3 years old and has gone nowhere but a few laps around the proving ground.
- After 4 years a boost in HP of about 10% - up to ALMOST the HP that the Jag S-type debuted with in 2000
- The "LSE".
- And finally, NO MORE MANUAL TRANNY.
I'm sorry, folks, and y'all do know that I'm pretty fond of my "Dura-Get" LS, but Lincoln has BLOWN this badly. Look at Cadillac - from nowhere with the Catera when the LS debuted to a 400HP KILLER machine 4 years later. Available ONLY with a manual tranny (the -V I mean. The ordinary CTS is available with an auto or a manual.) Enormous buzz, a theme for for their styling - love ot or leave it, it's consistent and they're getting noticed. I refer you here for another man's opinion:
http://www.autoextremist.com/
While you're on autoextrmeist, check out the rant about marketing. Chrysler is singled out, but how much of that applies to Lincoln marketing?
Hey, putting it all together, here's my new suggestion for the LS slogan:
"The Lincoln LS. It coulda' been a contenda ..."
On another note, I looked at a couple of Aviators. First off, I am kind of surprised this SUV isn't selling better than it is. IMO, it is a better size than the gigantic Navigator and unlike most luxury SUVs that are based on lesser models, the Aviator's interior looks like a true Lincoln. It's really hard to tell that it is a dressed up Explorer. I only had one complaint with the Aviator's interior, the front seats have manual recliners. While this may be fine for the Explorer or even Mountaineer, a Lincoln deserves power recliners. Otherwise, it's a nice truck. If Lincoln would put the Aviator's style of instrumentation in the LS, it would really jazz things up even more. And I'll say, the instruments in the 03-04 models look more upscale than my 01.
Mine did too.
It seems that when I had leaking o-ring gaskets in the valve cover it filled the sparkplug and coil-on-plug with oil and caused a fouling (missing) condition.
By cleaning the COP and plug area I was able to temporarily "fix" the condition until I get around to replace the gaskets.....for me a little project in itself.
If your car is under warranty, have the dealer examine this. If not... Good Luck. I'll be saving myself a few hundred bucks by doing it myself.
On another note, I looked at a couple of Aviators. First off, I am kind of surprised this SUV isn't selling better than it is.
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Actually it is selling pretty well. Not as well as the Navigator, but fairly close.
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IMO, it is a better size than the gigantic Navigator
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I agree, sortof. When I went out at the end of 2003 to replace my big family vehicle (my LS 5 speed is my commute car aminly) I had every intention of getting an Aviator. Took the whole bunch (5 of us, 2 in car seats) to test the fit. The good news is we all got into the first 2 rows, which was a requirement for me. Also, the Aviator is a wunderbar driving machine. Very quick, crisp handling good ride. Very impressive. But the bad news was - the 3 kids were cramped in the 2nd row, there wan't much room behind the 2nd row for 'stuff' and worst of all, I just felt cramped and uncomfortable in the driver's seat. I tried and tried to gey comfy, drove the vehicle 3 times, seat in various positions but I just kept feeling uncomfortable.
Then I figured I might as well drive the Navigator siting right next to the Aviator while I was there. The Nav was not even on my radar screen when I went out to look. Too big and probably too clumsy and stodgy on the road I figured. Well lemme tell ya, that ain't so. From the first when I pulled out of the dealership and zipped across 3 lanes and into the left turn lane and down a rough backstreet, I was impressed. This vehicle rocks! It's pretty peppy (though the Aviator has it beat handily in the speed dept) it handles really well, very little body roll, steering is awesome and the ride is just great. And the icing was I felt great in the driver's seat, there is plenty of room for the 2 car seats and the teenager in the 2nd row and there's a ton of room left behind that row for all the gear we needed for a week long trip to So Cal 2 days after we bought it. We all love it, and it really doesn't feel that big at all when u're driving it. Though parking can be tight - but it's got a great little button u push and the side view mirrors fold in to save room.
Anyway, just wanted to point out I felt just as you do, but for my needs the Nav was the only choice.
Oh, and the interior is fantastic. Better than anything else out there, IMHO. And, the seat recliners are power!
Some of us are just happy to finally see some life at Lincoln!
Can it remotely compare to the HUGE financial frontal assault on the automotive marketplace as Cadillac has displayed? Absolutely not!
And it’s not been pleasant seeing European and Japanese automakers declare war in the American marketplace without seeing an attempt at competing by FLM.
The Mustang, F150 and the GT are not the Lincoln LS but they are getting all the corporate juice
Eyes wide open here
As most of the LS owners on the enthusiast’s boards know, the CTS-V is almost an exact execution of the spec we collectively had described for a Hi-Po LS! And that alone is serious grounds for disenchantment.
As some of you may recall last summer, it was my 12 year-old son who asked the Lincoln brass just what they were going to do in light of
Cadillac’s building of the CTS-V.
Regrettably and predictably, they had no response.
But hope springs eternal and many folks are really not willing to write off the potential of Lincoln in building that flagship Hi-Po sedan. As we all know the talent is there and all it takes is one major VP to green-light the project.
Cadillac has nothing without Bob Lutz. He is only ONE man. He is a car guy. He makes sh*t happen. They are nowhere without Bob . And I hope they know it! He enables good things to occur and inspires creative people to excel.
This little OLOA “race” is a grass roots effort and it would be great to see Lincoln LS owners show up at the events and support the guys. Many of us will be there to support them. It is important for the “suits” at FLM to know that there is a passion for the LS and a hi-po version of it.
God knows that it’s very easy to be negative here . If the LS and hi-po variant does a fade-to-black then for sure many current owners will be driving other brands and Lincoln will have turned their first time Lincoln owners into one-time-only Lincoln owners.
It's just that some of us are just not willing to have that as the outcome without a little fight and a little show of support. ; -)
Peace.
funk - Yes, my LS post was certainly a wee bit on the negative side. I'll cop to that. But it's hard to be positive about a high performance LS when Lincoln shows very little to No interest in making one. Further, who are they going to sell them to? Sure, you and I and some others here (and There) would want one, but who else? I mean, look at the manual transmission fiasco. Lincoln had the foresight to make it an option, but the dealers wouldn't stock them or even ORDER one for a paying customer in some cases. Would a hipo fare any better? Maybe it would, especially in light of the CTS-V, but I dunno.
Sorry to go negative, but that's the way I see it. Way back when, Jim Rogers generated so much excitement in many of us with his pronouncements about 5 new Lincolns coming down the pike in the next 3 years. Well, 3 years have come and gone and what do we have? One new vehicle - the Aviator - which is pretty much best in it's class, but certainly didn't take a whole lot of design and engineering to come up with it. Heck - scale down the Navigator drawings and - voila!
And they are adding another vehicle soon of similar design strategy - a full-size Lincoln pick up truck based on the F-150. It's almost an exact duplicate in fact, except for the "signature Lincoln waterfall grille" - which we recently learned may be going the way of the "American Luxury" tag line, to be replaced by a 1961 grille. Lincoln hasn't even replaced the F-150 interior with something like the Nav or Avi. I really don't understand the logic behind this vehicle other than "what can we get into the showrooms the fastest?"
As for cars ... well they're talking about a smaller car based on a MAZDA chassis fer cripes sake, but who's seen it? They've presented 3 or 4 "concept" cars and most were basically panned and none really showed a great deal of design theme kinship with the next and none showed much kinship with what's already in the showroom. The only one that received better than average buzz was the Mark 10 convertible - and I've already read a Lincoln executive saying basically 'well, we really don't like it and most likely will not build it.'
Does anyone know or even have a strong feeling about the fate of the LS and DEW-98 after 2005? From what I hear, DEW-98 is going to Jag and Lincoln gets the Mazda chassis. The most positive thing I can say is "I hope the heck that ain't true."
I can vouche for this strategy. Same situation that happened with the initial Navigator. Nothing but a dolled up Expedition, then as Ford saw the market was accepting the vehicle, then through-out the years they would improve them in ways to differentiate it from the Expedition. Since the Mark LT will be pretty much in the same situation, I'm sure that when the 2nd generation is launched (and the market accepts it) then they'll differentiate it as time passes.
"From what I hear, DEW-98 is going to Jag and Lincoln gets the Mazda chassis. The most positive thing I can say is "I hope the heck that ain't true."
You are correct, although Ford will is thinking of using another platform for another new flagship, possible the Panther (which is what the Crown Vic, Grand Marquis, TownCar ride on), or Volvo's P2 platform. AND one more platform as well (RWD based).
Just gotta give it time, although I do agree with your frustration, you should hear mine heh....
Having had very good experiences with 2 Acuras I thought I'd give it a try. Every report, shootout etc... was glowing with accolades. So we got one and it seats 3 in the 3rd row seat. So the kids love the dual zone entertainment system, wireless phones, DVD etc.. and my wife loves the way it drives...and the spaciousness for its class is beyond belief! It has more room inside than the Volvo XC90!
Its track is stable as it is as wide as our old Suburban. As a Honda its engine likes to rev.
So towing with 6 passengers and a 4000lb boat through the Majave Desert in August was a real kick because it suprised the hell out of me!
In 40,000 miles it has been a flawless vehicle so far. I recently rented a Chevy Trailblazer and I again realized that we had made the right decision.
Also, could someone confirm that the 2002 airbox is compatible with the 00 and does it come with the MAF? Have a good night.
Direct Swap
The gas mileage is approaching 20 mpg on the highway while cruising at 75 mph, but mostly about 15 in mostly surface street driving. Power, handling, ride comfort, and overall cabin comfort are top notch and I LOVE THE COOLED seats!!!! It was 95°F yesterday here in Phoenix, and the cooled seats worked great . . . which is probably the biggest reason we went with the Ultimate package.
You're going to have to live with it for a long time or pay dearly otherwise.
Resale sucks. The car's great. Go figure.
In this area, this car is so, so not a BMW.
The people who lease could give a rip less.
That works for me.
- Ray
Driving an '03 LS8 Sport . . .
I'm sure that's not what the Lincoln marketing people want to hear. However, at my age, and given a recent shake-up where I work, I'm not assuming a huge debt just to have a new car. The 2000 fits our needs just fine.