Lincoln LS

heyjewel

I would compare the fit of the door seal around the driver door with that of the passenger. I suspect you'll find the quiet one lies nice and straight and flat, while the driver seal probably has some kinks or folds. Most likely, IMHO, if the kinks are bad enuf, a new door seal will be required. I speak from experience here. Silicone spray is great for these problems, but if the seal is crooked, it'll need to be replaced.

cwz

After three weeks having my LSV8 sport at the dealer and FoMoCo deciding to replace the tranny case to solve tranny fluid leaks that have kept occurring over the past year. They have now decided to put in a new tranny instead. Hopefully not take another 3 weeks!!

Mark, will I have to have them install the latest TSB again or is there anything I need them to do to get the latest software reflash? As I found the latest TSB to be an order of magnitude better in tranny shifting and deployment than before I had the TSB done.

heyjewel

I've found 2 minor glitches in my Red Dura-Get LS and have traced them down a bit. Hopefully Lincoln either knows of or will look at finding fixes.

First one I mentioned on this board about a month ago, and it's happened again. Ie: The trunk release (either fob or dash) will not work after car is shut off. The second time it happened (Saturday past) I realized I had done the same thing as I had done the first time. That is: I shut off the engine with the clutch pedal down and foot off the gas *while the car was still moving* and rolled to a stop. Perhaps the dead engine signals coupled with a still-moving signal (or whatever) confuses the computer as it goes thru it's shutdown routine and the trunk is left locked out? I haven't tried it yet, but I wonder what would happen if the trunk release was pushed while the car is in motion? I bet it's locked-out. In any case, reinserting the key and turning to the start position will reset everything and the trunk release will work again.

Second one is a noise that was driving me batty. Not very loud, but loud enuf. Kind of sounds like our old TV friends: 'Snap, Crackle and Pop.' Sounded at first like it was coming from the headliner, but that proved to be an echo. It's coming from the periphery seal which attaches the leather shift boot to the console. It is a bit loose on my car and when I press it down at around the 1-2 o'clock position, the noise disappears. Don't know what the seal is made of, but my fear is that it's another JN cost saving material, perhaps styrofoam? Has anyone (stanny?) pulled the boot off?

Have any other 5-speeders experienced either of these? I expect my dealer will replace the boot seal at my next visit, but the electrical glitch is liable to require more engineering.

buckwheat

Things change, and so does monetary car values. Here's what a well known participant on this board had to say on July 17, 1999 in response to questions regarding devaluing this car by placing them in rental fleets

Town Hall Sedans - Archived Discussions Lincoln LS - Original

#272 of 585 Comments... by jroger19 Jul 17, 1999
(07:58 pm)

In response to some of your comments:

- We know residual is very important in this category, and for
that reason have no intention of putting any significant number of
LS into the rental fleet.
- Sport package went into production on 6/28, but the plant was
on shutdown for the first two weeks of July. I know, bad timing,
but there is no option given our Union contract. We will be
producing a very high mix of sport packages starting Monday.

keyrow

I operate a detailing business as a source of secondary income. Actually I love making cars look good and did it for friends and associates for several years before turning it into a real business adventure. As a detailer I HIGHLY recommend avoiding any type of silicone treatment for rubber components (as well as vinyl). The reason is that rubber/vinyl compounds are susceptable to UV rays and ozone which break down the long carbon chains that make up the compounds. Tire manufacturers add carbon black and a wax based sacrificial protectant; this is true for all black rubber compounds including weather seals. The ozone attacks the oil/wax and depletes it instead of attacking the rubber itself. Silicone will dissolve the natural oils/waxes contained in the rubber compounds and it can also act as a magnifying glass for UV rays both of which will increase the rubber's deterioration. (One example of this breakdown is vinyl dashboard, door panels and seatbacks: this is the source of the haze that builds up on our windscreens that is so difficult to remove.) So look at the label of whatever you plan to use and if silicone is a primary ingredient THROW IT AWAY! My personal recommendations would be to get either Wurth Rubber Care, Sonax Rubber Care or Zymol Seal. These three were designed for "live" rubber door gaskets which require much flexing. They are rich in glycerin which will help maintain the flexibility and sealing ability of gaskets (a nice side benefit is they greatly help to keep doors from freezing in winter). There are probably more than just these three products, but I have personal experience with these and can give an unqualified approval. If anyone has questions I will be happy to answer them, either here or e-mail me directly. BTW Lexol Vinylex is excellent and is what I use on my LS' vinyl.

Sorry for the long post, but I HAD to say something.

cdnpinhead

To heyjewel (#3008) -- no, I haven't experienced either of the issues you've described.

To buckwheat (#3009) -- Nice to hear from you, as always. This is yet another example of the "talk is cheap" approach to life (no offense to Jim R. -- large corporations are (in)famous for putting their people in this position). The LS, when it was praised by Consumer Reports (I know, I know), shortly before it won the COTY thing from Motor Trend, was thought to be the answer to the maiden's prayer, for U.S. performance sedans (as if there were any others). Besides which, all indications were that our beloved LS was meant to compete directly with the BMW, what with the "ultra low emissions" stuff, umpteen-country-compatible design, and other features (like that tow-hook thing on the front).

Here we are a year and a half later. 0% interest, first month payment free, in rental car fleets (mind you, along with the Jag S and other fairly spiffy cars), not going to be marketed heavily (if at all) in Europe, and little or no buzz regarding any performance upgrades or other significant improvements for the future for the LS.

Times change.

I, on the other hand, don't. . .at least very quickly. I've got mine, and I'll have it until it becomes unreliable or until I can't get replacement parts. Stay tuned.

My #3 son went to a SCCA cone-course thing Saturday night (minimizes heat discomfort in the hellhole desert) with his Honda Accord and met up with #2 son who has a Pontiac Fiero (go figure). Later this week the times will be published and printed out, and I'm looking forward to comparing the performances among a really varied field. The boy's Accord was among the toads, but he went to learn better how to drive and how these things worked. There were 3 M3's and a number of 'Vettes, a Viper, a bunch of Miatias & Del Sols, and a mix of old Mustangs and other vehicles there along with only four other sedans among the 100+ vehicles running. I'm inclined to take the LS out and see what happens sometime in the next few months. What I've learned from following this board is that there may be as many as three people who care, but thought I'd mention it.

lolaj42

If your heading out to autocross in the Phoenix area, let me know in advance, and perhaps I'll join you!

scottc8

I've examined the window sticker from my car, RTFOM, and even re-read the MT Car of the Year article reprint the dealer had when I bought it, and can find no mention of ITH. I can only conclude it must be part of the California emissions control equipment. Either that, or you guys are pulling my leg. Yeah, that must be it. If the LS really had such a thing, Car and Driver would have pointed out that the BMW ITH option is superior.

ronniepooh

In reading it, Im not really seeing any hypocrisy in Jims statement. He didnt say NO LS's at all, he said no significant number. Thats a statement thats open to interpretation, as to what significant is. Hertz has the line called the Premier line, which appears to be more "upscale" than the regular rental fleet. Heck, the first time I flew into Miami, I saw a place renting Ferraris just outside the airport. Regardless, a couple of folks on this forum have complained about how difficult it was to find a LS to rent, which leads me to believe there may not be many available to rent, meaning there arent significant numbers of LS's to rent. Of course I could be wrong..

mkovalsk

You will not need the reflash done again with your new transmission. The reflash is done to the Powertrain Control Module which is not part of the transmission. It will still have the new programming with the new transmission.

Mark

ezaircon4jc

The ITH has been mentioned MANY times. It is a common complaint among certain posters. I've learned to just deal with mine as they aren't that "intrusive".

scottc8

for denseness. For the honor of "Sharp as the Edge of Town" for June, 2001, I hereby nominate myself. Please don't fall all over yourselves seconding the nomination.

I still maintain that if BMW had them, they would be better. More "intrusive". Even as an extra cost option, instead of standard equipment such as we have on the LS.

ls1bmw0

Scott,

The answer hinges on what alphastein or packv12 has to say next. I agree with ezaircon that it has been mentioned many times. I'm willing to bet a bag of groceries that you'll figure it out from the Blues Clues

Y'all realize that when you go to look at a LS and want an extended test drive, and arrange it through the Lincoln site, that the car is a rental from Hertz paid for by Lincoln. Makes sense to have the car in a Premium rental fleet. Gets more people into one that may not have thought about them in the first place.

markls8

Thought you might like to know - the dead trunk release problem isn't confined to the Getrag - it's happened to my SST-equiped LS about four times now. To correct the fault I just put the key in the ignition and turn it on and off and it resets, exactly like you said you do (unless I want to do what now seems like the neanderthal thing to do and actually open the trunk directly with the key). Interesting about the "ignition off coast" though, I do that occasionally while backing into the garage; drop it into N and ignition to off and coast the last few feet. I'll have to check and see if I can make a connection between the two events.
Regards - Brian.

alphanstein

The ITH is in fact much better than the BMW because the BMW has an inferior trunk space. So this added feature while a complaint by most, is not quite the disadvantage that it may seem when compared to BMW. You know, there were even some professional reviews that professed the greatness of the ITH's.

Here's a hint, the last three post's from me, ls1bmw0, and ezconair have the parts of the puzzle.

stanny1

It helps to have the Manual when the brakes fade. One can always downshift to slow the car. If it gets too bad, one can always downshift and turn off the engine. That usually puts a damper on forward motion. A Manual gives you those options. However, I have never experienced brake fade in any of my Manual cars, probably because having a Manual keeps you from overusing the brakes. My Cressida went over 80,000 on the first set of front pads. I expect my LS to reach close to that also. When squirting through traffic, which I like to call "cut and thrust", nothing beats a Manual because when you let up on the gas, you can fall back behind the car next to you and go around them on the other side. Not that I would encourage that kind of aggressive driving, of course.....

scottc8

Thanks, guys, I figured it out from ezaircon4jc's post yesterday. Of course now it seems pretty obvious, but I spent a lot of time trying to figure out what ITH could stand for that couldn't be printed on a Family-Oriented web site.

jroger19

FYI, there are not very many LS's in rental fleets, despite the creation of the new Hertz service. Our intention to keep these numbers small remains the same.

If any of you do rent an LS I would appreciate your comments on its condition when rented.

akirby

I got it! You guys had me confused with the original statement - I thought you were talking about the FRONT of the car. One question though: did the Z3 driver see all of your SEGs as you blasted through the corner??

ls1bmw0

to keep the board interesting!

I believe the Z3 driver did see all 4 of us with SEGs! Actually he saw them twice since we had so much fun going through the road the first time, we turned around and did it again. Seems he did the same thing, as we caught him coming and going!

P.S. We sure got a lot of double-takes having 4 LSes back to back going through towns! Great fun!

Brian

herb17

Rented a dark green LS from Hertz in Denver early May. The car had about 2000 miles and was in beautiful, like-new condition. It also had the sport package and a moon roof which surprised me for a rental car. You may remember that the area had a serious late season snow storm at that time. I took it up into the mountains for three days in the Breckenridge/Keystone area. Drove through some pretty heavy snow and icy-dicey conditions around the Eisenhower tunnel on I-70. The car performed beautifully. Solid, smooth, and comfortable. As discussed in recent posts after the trip, the traction control probably helped more than I realized. Anyway, I had been considering an LS for a long time and living with it for three days in a wide variety of conditions cinched it for me. It was the first ever that I SLOWED DOWN when returning a rent car so I could spend more time enjoying it. I purchased my LS June 1st and am now a happy member of the fold.

ronniepooh

Was browsing www.tirerack.com, and noticed that the O.E. Firestone tires for our LS Sport Packaged cars (17 inch) are on "sale". $106 each. Yes, I know, many have a bias against Firestone now, and several here think the OE Firestone tires on the Sport Packaged LS stink. Personally, I can only say that Ive been more than pleased with the tires. Smooth, great dry traction, excellent wet and snow traction as well. Once on the site, you can also review the owners surveys for this tire and other comparable tires. You'll find that the low-priced Firestone did much better than average in just about every category...So if you are in the market for replacement tires for your Sport Packaged LS...

djrunner

How do you like your man. trans.? I can't find any dealerships within a 200 mile radius that has one on the lot to test drive. Did you have to special order yours? I'm interested in a 2001 with Getrag, but would never order without being able to test drive. It appears that there isn't one at all in the South.

airwolf1000

Bad news,

Lincoln Demands that your order first, and the dealer wants a $500 Dollar Deposit before they will place the order, then and only then can you test drive it, when it comes in! Just Kidding no but seriously, you can speak to jroger19@ford.com who will help you to find one you can test drive. I bought a V8 over a year ago because I could not find a manual one in Dallas/Ft Worth Metroplex, or the El Paso,TX/LAS Cruces NM Area (Two Areas I live in/Frequent).

Talk to Jim Rogers , he will take care of you. Sad but probably the only way to get your hands on a Manual, outside of a miracle. Actually the Only Manual I have driven is Jim's V6 at LS Mania!

Regards,

Airwolf1000

ls1bmw0

You may also want to contact a Lincoln Personal Consultant who can also arrange a test drive for you. You can get to one from the Lincoln site when you go to price out a car at www.lincolnvehicles.com. They are supposed to respond to you within 24 hours.

Brian

ezaircon4jc

Take a "trip" over to www.llsoc.com. One of the message board topics is what we like most about our LS'. There isn't enough room here to go into detail. This is just too fantastic of an automobile to try to explain in the "Readers Digest" vein.

For me it is the shear joy of driving the car. Cornering was NEVER such fun! I won't win any "stoplight races", but just try to keep up with me in the twisties!

ronniepooh

You also may want to scroll back to many posts on this forum to see the overall thoughts on LS vs other makes, including the BMW. A lot was discussed recently in comparing the LS vs. BMW 530i. Bottom line: Test drive them all very thoroughly, and make your decision based on your needs and wants. To answer your question, though: 1)Handling 2)Near 50/50 weight balance 3)Smooth V6 4)Alpine 12 speaker Audio system. 5)More interior cubic inches than a BMW 7 series 6)Anti dive/anti squat suspension geometry

For starters.

ronniepooh

Viking, dont forget about the current Lincoln incentives in place til Jul 2...0% financing for 36 months, 2.9% for 60 months, first months payment made by Lincoln, and 3 years/36,000 mile free covered maintenance. (the maintenance may be in place beyond 07/02, Im not certain. The lincoln site referred to above should clear that up for you)

koker

I have had the same problem in my getrag equipped LS. I had not been able to correlate it to anything I did, I'll try the coast-remove key trick and see if it happens.

I thought it was just a sensor in the car that could tell when I had my hands full and it was raining, to make the trunk buttons not work.

I was figuring I would never be able to get it to fail at the dealer.

ezaircon4jc

Lincoln executives' involvement on this board. Also a GREAT club!

alphanstein

What's not to like about my LS. I still smile from ear to ear thinking about all the fun I have driving the car. I have pushed this car to extremes and it responds with not a cry. Not to mention, I don't worry about repair cause I know if something did go wrong because of my aggressive driving, it wouldn't break the bank to get it fixed. I am just smiling right now cause I am looking forward to getting in my LS again.

ronniepooh

Slightly off-topic, but for those of us LS owners who also have older toddlers, Ford is doing a cool thing by giving away free booster seats through Toys-R-us. The model that they are giving away happens to also be the #1 rated booster seat in the current Consumer Reports magazine as well. Check out www.boostamerica.org for more details...

heyjewel

How do I like my 5speed LS? I love it! Unless you want a speed-racer type of car, I think you will too. The handling is BMW-class, the ride is very nice, though not as smooth as the LS w/o the sport package (which comes with the 5speed.) Brakes, steering feel, comfort -all world-class.

Now, to get a 5speed ... can be a problem, as you've learned. The suggestions folks made above are definitely worth a try. Emailing Jim at jroger19@ford.com would be my first step. I actually had to do that to get myself a 5speed when one dealer here in California refused to even order one for me! They are a blue-hair Lincoln dealer and refuse to believe anyone would want a Lincoln with a stick shift. One of the problems Lincoln will have to overcome in trying to remake their image is these foolish dealers. Twenty minutes after speaking to Jim's assistant, I received a phone call from another dealer eager to order my car for me. I picked it up in Feb and can't get enuf of driving it.

I know how you feel about wanting to drive before you buy. I was able to, as I found a demo 5speed locally to drive. Didn't buy it cause didn't like the color - black. Good luck.

heyjewel

Well, looks like I'm not alone on this one. I'm just about positive that it is the key off while car moving that causes it. I can do it every time now. Does anyone from Lincoln know if this has a known fix? For some reason, I see my dealer saying it's not a problem because that's not an approved way to shut the car off!?

cdnpinhead

Chris,

I'll let you know. My travel schedule is such that the next couple of months are probably out, but September or so may work. From what I hear, they only run at night in the summer and the daylight courses are a bit more "interesting."

It would be nice to get 2 or 3 LS's running in these things here in Phoenix, and it'd be even better if we could compare notes with others across the country who are doing likewise.

It's still pretty apparent that the "enthusiast" slice of the total market is miniscule, and the number of enthusiasts who are willing to abuse their cars in front of one and all is smaller yet. Methinks that's a big chunk of why LSMania II went away.

ls1bmw0

Just got off the phone with the SCCA. Here are the classes that the LS will run in.

Stock (factory spec tires, no other alterations):

LS-6: G
LS-8: F

Street Prepared (tires, exhaust, intake mods):

LS-6: E
LS-8: D

ls1bmw0

I would agree with stanny1. I was wishing for a manual while I was merrily sliding along, with the tranny staying in 2nd until it was good and ready to downshift into first. I think a manual would have also added an additional element of fun, since the auto., while one of the best I've driven in this environment, would downshift and cause the rear tires to chirp as it engaged the lower gear. Being able to double-clutch down a gear would have made it a bit smoother.

scottc8

Thanks for the tip. I'm with you; the Firehawks are terrific. Not the best snow tire, but good enough, and it's sure nice to have the good handling tires on during the spells of nice weather between snowstorms. At 20k mine are a long ways from worn out but it's tempting to buy a set for the future, at that price.

Can any tire experts out there tell me if buying tires and storing them for 8-12 months is a bad idea?

ls1bmw0

The biggest enemy of tires is heat and sunlight. If you can eliminate the two, storing tires for that length of time shouldn't affect them. Store them on their side so they don't flat spot.

Brian

koker

I was able to repeat it in my car as well. I took the keys out while coasting to a stop, and bingo the trunk buttons don't work (fob or dash.)

Insert and turn key, take it out again and sure enough the trunk works again.

Talk about goofy software! But at least I now know what to avoid if I want to open the trunk without having to resort to using the keyhole.
No sense going to the dealer for this one, unless lincoln is listening and puts out a TSB. Can't wait to try to explain that one to a service advisor.

ronniepooh

Another tip. Save a few bucks, and Buy only 3 Firehawks, IF you have the full sized Sport Tire/Sport rim as a spare like I do. I plan to put the brand new spare wheel/tire into service, and make one of my still ever-so-slightly bent rims/used firehawk tires my spare..

scottc8

ronniepooh - good idea, but I have a Continental spare on a black wheel. Full size tire (not a temporary spare) but I think it's smaller than the regular tires. We had some variety of spare tires during the 2000 MY (mine's a 5/00).

Brian - Thanks for the advice. I know old rubber is no good, but didn't think a few months would hurt. After all, how new is a "new" tire, anyway?

Glad you guys mentioned the SEG. I use mine so often I'm not even aware of it most of the time.:)

packv12

The Viking,has it landed yet? I can't find his post, was it deleted? I hope that he wasn't left holding a bucket for anyone!

ITH is an amazing engineering feat. It can be found on most every car, even full sized GM products, when they were still in production.

EZ, I made it to Little America in one sitting, then home on the next, so I hate 800 mile days!

Alpha, I should have had you drive my 18 inch car to compare to yours (EZ is already greedy with my tires;-) Remember, I'm a flat lander, your skills (collectively) are better then mine! The boss should have been third, not me!

koker

It seems that the trunk button (fob and dash) also doesn't work while the car is rolling. This was probably the intended safety feature. When you remove the key, the trunk must still think the car is rolling. That must be the bug.

akirby

Take 10 minutes and fill out the Car Talk Guys (Tom and Ray) Survey:

http://cartalk.cars.com/Tools/survey.pl

One of the questions is "how badly do you want to own a BMW?"

They have a Car-O-Scope report that compares your current car to the survey results and makes some humorous suggestions. But there aren't enough survey results for the LS. You can also look at the survey results separately.

drolds1

OK, guys. You've really got me talking to myself with this one. My question is simple: Why?

It reminds me a little of the old question, "why do you bang your head against the wall"? Ans: "B/C it feels so good when I stop."

I've never felt compelled to take the key out of the ignition and coast to a stop. A note of caution: I don't think any one is doing this, but coasting with the car in gear and the ignition off will damage the cats.

I can't consider this a defect.

ls1bmw0

I think I'd have to agree with drolds1 on this one. I can't see this as a defect either. If the car is rolling, whether it's a 0.25 mph or 100 mph, it's still in motion, and if you're taking the key out while it's still moving, how's the system supposed to know that the car won't get rolling faster?

Sounds like the safety interlock is working just fine.

billincal1

I was driving over my usual mountain range to get to work and was had my right hand on the rest. I slipped my hand down to the transmission indicator plate and noticed it was uncomfortably warm ...almost hot, but just in a portion of the plastic plate (lower left corner) everywhere else on the plate was cool or neutral to the touch (my 01 LS is a sports pkg with V8)...Is this just the normal operating temp of the transmission coming through the plastic housing or should I be concerned?

Bill

jhoffman61

FYI - Autoweek magazine is allowing entries over the web for their Annual reader's poll of best automobiles. This would have been great except for the fact that while the Lincoln LS is listed as one of the top selections, it is NOT listed in individual sedan categories. Can't win if it isn't listed :-(. I emailed their webmaster. Might want to go vote for our favorite car!

heyjewel

Well, like I said, I can see Ford saying that it ain't designed to work this way. However, I've been doing this (on occasion, not every time for sure) all my life with stick shift cars. I remember an uncle who did it too when I was a kid. (Perhaps where I learned it?) In any case, I've never before had a car whose trunk I couldn't get into after coasting to a stop ! :>)

Therefore, I'd say it's a defect. After all, once the car is stopped, I oughtta be able to open the trunk no matter how the stop happened. Isn't it a bit hard to argue the converse to that?

George