Quick question, I thought someone posted once approx. what VVT actually costs Ford per vehicle, and that it was something very low, like under $300 per car. I would have GLADLY paid $300 plus some profit for Ford to get an extra 30-40hp. I think most folks would have, but then again, Im thinking from an enthusisast mindset. Might be all for naught, if you consider that according to a previous post, there are some new engines insight for Ford for the 2003 model years. 250hp in the V6 LS Manual would be pretty sweet, considering the lighter weight of the 6/manual transmission.
I also agree that my "wow" factor was huge when I drove the 540i 6 speed, because of what I was drving at the time. A loaner BMW 318ti. Spunky little car, great handling (even with the old E30 rear suspension bits), but going directly from 138hp to 282hp gets a bigger grin than going from 252hp to 282hp. ;-)
I believe that the part numbers for LS splash guards are:
XW4Z 16A550-AA (front) and XW4Z 16A550-BA (rear)
They only come in matte black, but they're molded to fit the inner fender contours and are really unobtrusive. The black trim around the bottom of the car allows them to blend in quite well, even on a light-colored LS like mine (ivory).
The Ford Parts Network website has them for $19.95 for each pair. You can find a link at the Lincoln LS Owners Club website at http://www.llsoc.com --just click on "links" and you'll see it. Go to the online catalog section and you'll find them.
I ordered mine with my car; I believe I paid $55 installed. (That was the total for all 4.) They're easy to put on, but you have to remove the wheels to get the rears on according to what other people have said. You might be able to avoid wheel removal if you use one of those angled screwdrivers; I'm not sure.
At any rate, they're worth it; they really help keep brake dust off the fenders in addition to providing protection from rocks and mud and such. They even have a small Lincoln logo molded into the plastic.
Your window problem may be the electronic module for the rear windows. I had to have that replaced on mine cause the driver's rear window would not go down.
If your LS is a 2000 though, you should insist that they do the TSB anyway. Good luck.
I've got the mud flaps and they're great. I think I paid the dealer $60.00 installed. Though they did it during prep time so it might be more if special visit required.
Can someone point me to the pages which have the torque curves for the LS engines please? Thanks.
Hi George. Nice to see you back! So, have you broken 1k yet? The torque curves are at www.llsoc.com . I forget where EXACTLY. I think it is on the picture page.
Those are the correct splash guard numbers. I just checked my invoice. I paid $20 per set. IIRC, they wanted to charge $35 per until I told them that they were $20 elsewhere. They GLADLY sold them to me for $20. You do have to remove the rear wheels as you need to drill 1 or 2 holes, I can't remember. On the front, all you have to do is turn the wheels. It took me about an hour to do it and I spent some time looking over the suspension. As others have said, they are well worth the investment!
I'm back! And completely reformed. [Trivia question - In what Kubrick movie is that line spoken by the main character?]
My LS6M has about 3500 miles now. What a beaut she is. Night before last I was dueling with a 540i and a C240 on hiway 17. The C got dusted (could have been due to a sane driver, as opposed to me and the BMW guy) and the 5 and I had a lot of fun on those curves. He actually fishtailed just a tiny bit around a quick right hand turn.
Thanks for the picture tip. I had looked around LLSOC but hadn't looked there. Now I need to commit to memory: 2700 or so to 5200 or so for max torque.
I'm TERRIBLE with movie stuff. Don't see too many. A poor guess is "Kentucky Fried Movie". As bad as I am with movie stuff, I have NO idea who directed what!
ONLY 3500?! Is Mrs. Heyjewel keeping you from behind the wheel? ;~) And to pick on a 540i! Good for you! I'll bet he was surprised that you ran with him!
My 2000 LS V8 Sport started pinging terribly when Shell changed their mix from winter to spring this year. I switched to Amoco Super Premium and the knock has disappeared completely after ~6 weeks at three 8 gallon purchases per week. The pinging started to diminish with the 2nd purchase.
You guys didn't mention that the Conti had the In tech DOHC (Romeo) 32 valver ala Cobra. Unfortuately, it was harnessed to front wheel drive. The Northstar is trapped in the same prison. Like I've said, the good engines go to the wrong drivers/wrong cars. I can't figure it out. Is this on purpose? Are the manufacturers afraid to put the good hardware together in a RWD, 4 door vehicle? Who said that two doors are sporty cars but four doors are different? Maybe that's why BMW has a market to itself, although most BMW drivers just think they have a performance car. A small minority actually buy a performance model. Even fewer actually drive like they have one. At least we LS/Edmund's participants know where it's at and know what to do with it (or at least I would like to think so). My LS is more than a static kinetic sculpure to me. The Coninator.
I've had the best results using Black Magic Professional Protectant. It works great on black vynl, rubber, and other plastic parts. In my experience, it works better and the results last longer than with ArmorAll.
I've been using Black Magic on my motorcycle seat, panniers, and other plastic and rubber parts for several years.
Note that Black Magic also markets a Paint Protectant. Be sure to get the correct one for plastic.
Just read the July '01 Car & Driver "short take", p. 139, on the '02 TL Type S sedan, with 260 hp/232 lb-ft 3.2L V-6 and 5-speed auto w/SportShift. For a mere $31,710 MSRP, 0-60 in 6.2 secs. 0-100 in only 16.0 secs. First number is only .1 secs slower than the BMW 330i manual they tested in 12/00. The second number is .6 secs quicker! For us LS lovers, was nice to see it could only pull .81g and braked 70-0 in 186 feet.
For the price, this is one heck of a value (albeit in inferior FWD mode)!!! Not to mention a good warranty and great reliability track record. All that acceleration along with sunroof, Vehicle Stability Assist, heated seats, and other amenities optional in the LS. Lincoln, are you paying attention?
Hertz Rent A Car has been promoting their new Prestige collection which was to include the LS. When I tried to reserve an LS on the Hertz website for an upcoming New York Trip, the best I could get was a Gran Marquis, UGH......, which is NOT an LS.
Please. Spare me. Its Front Wheel Drive. FWD is cheaper to produce than RWD. If the LS was FWD, it could be produced and sold at a much cheaper price, with many options as standard. Once again, as a reminder, giowa, most of us here dont place maximum priority on straight line acceleration. Handling comes into play more in everyday driving.
I have to say this car is awesome. So, I have been able to drive the car on the road, by before this weekend, I had yet to truly drive the car.
Thanks to Mike, AKA ezconair, we had our first Southern Southern California get together, San Diego. Just a small gathering with four of us, Mike, Brian G. and Ray B., but the company was great and the cars were greater. Brian and Ray have some really nice wheels and I personally like the rims that Brian has better, but they both look great and make the cars look really aggressive. Now the exhaust on Brians car sounds great. It is slightly different than stock, but fits the profile of the more sporty LS perfectly. It has the low roar like a Mustang but not near as obtrusive.
So, to the fun part of the drive, we got to do some really aggressive Mania style driving. I will let Brian post the details about where to get the drive on the llsoc board. But we had six miles of unobstucted, let it all hang out, turns, switchbacks, harpins, and heartpounding excitement. The best part about it was the LS going every step of the way with me. The LS was able to corner with ease and balance, and while in most cars you would spin out around an aggressive turn, not in this baby. It had great driver feedback and control, keeping me in the center of all the action. We have to do some Mania style events again, or plan some club Solo races where we all go out in unison and show our stuff, but also have a blast driving.
I slept very good last night dreaming about those curves and when I can do it again. I had driven the road before on my motorcycle, but it was a totally different, more exciting, experience in the LS. One you don't want to miss the oppty to do when we next travel. And for those of you who feel, I can't drive aggressively like that, well think again. The car is such a forgiving machine that it will help out even the amatuer racer. And if you like the adrenaline of roller coasters, well nothing compares to what we just did in the LS.
I do have some comments, everyone that posts all the comments about the LS having imperfections, well, every car has them, and with the LS, after a drive like that, I don't care, not that I did before. The car was more than great at meeting my demands.
Another comment is that Mike is a great driver. He has the V6 and was able to keep right on my tail through the whole course. And I have a V8. So all those who say the V6 doesn't have power, I would have to debate that. Maybe he is just more aggressive than I, but whatever the case, he had just as much fun as I going through the turns and we both have 16" wheels, non-sport cars.
To Liconln, thanks for a great car and I know with the dedication you have, it will only get better with time. I truly look forward to the changes and being able to pick up a new LS with more of what I already feel is a great car.
I did a little research into the Vehicle Communication System option for the 2002 LS, primarily the phone. I found that the phone is a hands-free, voice-activated, digital/analog, mobile Motorola Timeport phone model # P8167. Ford has Sprint as its sole service provider. The phone will have the Lincoln logo on it. Thats about all I could find out for now.
ronniepooh: Do you have any data to support your contention that "FWD is cheaper to produce than RWD"? And by what dollar or percentage figure? Can't say I've ever seen any such data. I'd love to see the data. (Back when RWD ruled, betting people said the exact opposite. Of course, the production lines, suppliers, etc. all geared toward RWD. Things like capital depreciation of tool, dies, factories, etc. as well as the length and size of model runs is a huge factor in the real per unit cost. Remember how cheap the '93 Mustang was? It was RWD. Essentially same platform in use since about '79. And if Lincoln planned to build two million nearly identical LSs over 10 years, the per unit cost would drop significantly.)
You're missing my point. All I'm saying is Lincoln had better be paying attention. With similar options to my LS8 Sport, it is about $8,000 cheaper, and in many ways outperforms mine. And its reliability is likely to be top notch. Nor did it take Acura forever to make a serious Sport model that provides large performance enhancements to the base 3.2TL. God help us if Acura ever puts a manual tranny in her. 0-60 in what, 5.5 secs?
RWD handling superiority is intuitive to me, and consistent with my training.
Why then, do Acura's regularly destroy BMW's in road races on Speedvision? This occurs on the shorter, tighter courses, later in the race when tire wear is an issue. The BMW's have the advantage on 'speed' courses, but are at a disadvantage on 'handling' courses.
I'm not itching for an argument; I'm sincerely looking for knowledge.
I'm sure someone on this board can provide us with the Acura TL reliability scores, but my good friend Kevin that attended Mania 1 with me in Irvine owns a '99 TL. So far, he has been a little disappointed with the overall quality, often saying his previous Infinity I30 was superior. Kevin has lamented a few times since Mania that he's "stuck" in his Acura lease and is looking forward to moving on . . .
Friday I drove Lexus LS430 & GS430. I won't disrupt this board with observations other than WOW! and $$$.
Also, the LS (& maybe the GS) have sunvisors that slide on their supporting rod, allowing side coverage to the B-pillar ... just like my dad's 1941 Plymouth. They don't put any electronics in the visor; home-link is in the headliner.
For whatever it might be worth, the 2001 Consumer Reports Annual Auto issue gives top reliability marks to all of their cars (Integra, RL, TL). CR lists every Acura car in their "reliable used car" lists. And CR gives a reliability "check" to every Acura car they have data for going back to '93. For each year for each car. Includes Integra, Legend, CL, RL, and TL.
I'm SOOO flattered! If it wasn't for you, we would've never taken that road. What a BLAST!!! I, too, dreamt of that wonderful 3 mile road! I STILL get goosebumps! At least Ashley has recovered
Oh, should we tell how our fearless leader nearly became our fearful leader? Hey, why not let him tell how he nearly gave Ray a new trunk and modified his ITH's :-). Lets just say, some new brakes are in order for Brian. Those larger wheels must make it harder to stop the car? There's a hypothesis to ponder.
I've rented an LS twice, both times from Hertz. Once was at Las Vegas, and once was at the John Wayne airport in Santa Ana, when I flew in for LS Mania.
I dont doubt that Acura ranks high with regard to quality, particularly with Consumer Reports. I also AGREE with your point that the Acura TL provides alot of "bang for the buck", but alas, it is hopelessly hamstrung by the fact that its FWD. Notwithstanding, I think my LS embodies as much as, if not more build quality than the typical TL.
As far as Acura being quick to market with a performance version, I think it is true that most (if not all) Japanese auto companies run a much quicker product development cycle than either their American or European counterparts, and average about 2 years. We know that our LS is currently running on at least a 3 year development cycle due to the fact that no appreciable differences are expected until the '03 MY. For competitive purposes, FoMoCo should concentrate on improving their development cycles. Based on conversations at the Mania event, FoMoCo is working hard in this area.
Purely from my perspective, Lincoln has removed any differences in quality between their product (the LS) vs. the competition. Since I'm not planning on replacing my ride before '05, I'm not that concerned about product development cycles; just that products improve, and remain competitive. Again, based on conversations at Mania 1 in Irvine, I'm confident that Lincoln will more than answer the call. FWIW.
I test drove both the 3.2 CL-S and the 3.2 TL way before I looked at the LS. I really wanted the coupe, I had read all the reviews and the numbers, and was generally impressed with the cars acceleration and the auto stick was really nice. Unfortunately, there was no headroom with the sunroof, and you couldn't delete it. I then tried the TL, still didn't have enough headroom, my head was touching the roof. Car was smooth and impressive, but also had some of the most uncomfortable seats I've ever sat in, something most car mags have also noted. Pity, I really liked the cars and the price, but they were not designed for tall folk (actually I'm not that tall, but have a German build, shorter legs and long torso, so I have to put the seat close enough to reach the pedals, which doesn't put me far enough back in the car to get more hearroom).
The LS is far far more comfortable to me, and the seats don't pinch you but still manage to provide enough side bolstering to hold you in place in corners. I also personally think the LS looks better and feels more solid. It was more than I had planned to spend, but I don't regret it.
That being said, my "want" list for the perfect (to me) LS is fairly short. I would like the following:
-VVT -Shorter rear gearing -Limited slip differential -Better gear ratio spacing in the tranny (SST) -A way to secure the glovebox and trunk when using valet parking (something I think is addressed in the 2001 LS, mine is a late 2000) -Backlighting on the radio buttons like the climate control (and most other Ford radios) have.
The suspension is a nearly perfect mix of comfort and handling,the brakes work really well, the high speed acceleration is amazing, the car is smooth and quiet, and even though my V8 Sport doesn't have the high end sound system, replacing the stock speakers makes a big difference for little money.
So, my wish list is relatively small. In reality, I understand why the gear ratios and rear end are the way they are, thanks to our over regulatory government, but the LSD and VVT would make up for most off the line performance issues. I think Lincoln hit remarkably close to the mark for a new car design, and if they improve it in only a few areas it should be competetive with most anything.
I was at a nursery today looking at trees, and the guy came up and said "When did Lincoln start making something that small?" Funny comment, but understandable considering the land yachts they've made.
Odd, biased quiz. Noted immediately that first question doesn't even have FWD as an option. Is that because it would win that one?
Can't say I agree with answer to number 2. Assuming FWD and RWD cars weigh 4,000 pounds and the RWD is 50/50 while FWD is 63/37. Initially there is only 2,000 pounds of weight on the rear drive wheels of the RWD versus 2,520 pounds on the front drive wheels of the FWD. So are they saying that over 520 pounds of weight (13% of the car's total weight) shifts to the rear? The engine, transaxle, driver, front suspension, etc. all stay forward of the center of gravity.
Okay so in the midst of the, ahem, rather exhuberant driving on the glory road, I come to find out that when the LS brakes get extremely hot, they don't fade away gradually, they just disappear.
The downside to this fact occured in the middle of a 15mph 110 degree right-hander that I happened to be in at around 40mph. The brakes disappeared on me. Not the most serene moment that I've experienced in a while
Remembering my prior racing experience of when things go to hell in a handbasket, stomp on the brakes and present as much tire surface area as possible to scrub your speed off with, I found myself sliding front first toward a rather large, uh, mountain!
Not saying that I stopped close, but when I got to were the three musketeers had stopped to compare notes, the driver's side front wheel had dirt from the, um, corner padding inside the wheel and the tire was covered with dirt.
Mind you, my car has 47,000 miles on the brakes and it was the second trip through the 3-mile road. So I don't blame the car or brake design. I should have let the brakes cool down a bit more before heading back in.
Even after all that, nothing beat the look on the guy with the BMW Z-3 as he came around a corner and witnessed the four of our LSes screaming around the turn!
While we were all admiring our cars at the event, we did notice that we all had the ITH option, which we found out wasn't mentioned in any of the discussions
And thanks to packv12, alphastein and ezaircon for a great day! Even the ladies seemed to enjoy themselves. And ezaircon has volunteered to be the SoCal Region Director for LLSOC.
Hi giowa, you asked - "So are they saying that over 520 pounds of weight (13% of the car's total weight) shifts to the rear?" I don't think 13% of the car's total weight is an unreasonable figure, considering that 100% of the car's weight routinely shifts to the rear wheels in high-performance cars (in the form of a wheelie) which have sufficient power and traction. I wonder how well a FWD vehicle would perform in that situation, assumming it could get enough traction to get into it? "The engine, transaxle, driver, front suspension, etc. all stay forward of the center of gravity." That's a really good question- a complex situation, more than I know, but my guess is that it is the height of the centre of mass above the ground which causes rotation of the vehicle about the rear wheels, and so the centre of gravity applies only when the vehicle is in equilibrium or at rest. So all the mass of those things could actually be CONTRIBUTING to the lifting of the front end. I think performance in FWD cars is conveyed to the driver by this lack of traction on acceleration because it causes tire screech, which, even though it is indicative of a LACK of performance (loss of traction), is perceived by the ear to be a sign of GREAT performance. You can thus install a smaller engine in a FWD car and get the "chirp" sound equivalent to a RWD vehicle with a bigger engine. (Automakers do precisely that and then put a "sport" sticker on the side of the vehicle.) Interesting isn't it. The actual measured acceleration statistics of vehicle "A" with good traction might be much better than vehicle "B", but the loss of traction and thus lower performance of "B" translates the opposite perception (tire screech=performance and power) to the driver. Such was GLeen's experience - BMW was able to take a vehicle which is statistically inferior (in acceleration) to another and give it certain characteristics which allowed it to be perceived as being better. Good for them. I'd be interested to know if there is anything in that RWD quiz which anyone can scientifically or theoretically prove incorrect. It contains facts which I have held as truths for decades. Cheers all - Brian.
For those who want not be part of the heard here is an observation on what everyone is driving up here in affluent CT. I was out for pizza last night and my seat looked out to the parking lot where the cars pull up to pick up their take out pizza. The cars I saw were, 5 BMW's (3 - 3 Series, 2 - 5 series), 3 Saab's, 2 Volvo's, 2 Explorers, 1 Suburban, 1 Accord, 1 Sable, 1 Oldsmobile, 1 Nissan Altama, 1 Honda Accord. I can draw two conclusions from this: 1 - Why in the world would you want a BMW, it seems everyone has one. 2 - It won't be may years before Chrysler, Ford & GM quit making cars to switch 100% of production over to Trucks & SUV's.
REl Acura TL, I agree with swaugar's comments, #2988. The TL was the best handling, best feeling FWD sedan I test drove. Like swaugar I could simply not find a comfortable driving position. The only way I could avoid hitting my head on the roof was to tilt the seat way back so I was a mile from the steering wheel. I also echo his LS wish list. Hopefully with the 2004 Mustang based on DEW98 there will finally be a LSD rear end available for the LS, as I can't imagine a Mustang GT or Cobra being sold without LSD.
I have never driven a TL but I will offer a thought anyway. The formula appears much like the old Taurus SHO. Take a high volume mid-size sedan and tweak it with performance and luxury upgrades. If done correctly, as in the case of the TL, you do get a good bang for the buck.
Rather than Lincoln trying to compete in that arena, it would seem more appropriate for Ford to bring back the SHO, only this time develop it to it's full potential. It doesn't appear that they will do that.
By the way, does anyone know what percentage of LSs sold have been V6s? I would also be curious about the sales results of sport packaged cars versus non-sport.
I seem to have a seal leak in the driver's door/window somewhere in my new LS. I get a little wind noise at highway speeds. Has anyone had this type of problem and figured out what was causing it? I'd like to be able to fix it myself instead of bringing it in.
The reason should be personal. If you like the car and you can afford it you should buy/lease it. I do not buy cars based on what other people are driving. Do you?
Good chance it is the miles on your car. I remember at LS Mania everyone driving that poor stick shift factory car around the pilon course. Almost NO rest for the car between circuts and drivers. I was one of the last to drive it at lunch time and there was no discernible brake fade at all. That really impressed me.
I had a Budget rental LS a few months ago that had wind noise from the upper part of the driver's door. The weather stripping had an obvious wrinkle in it. Take a good close look at yours and see if you can see any flaws. Also, you might try pushing outward on the top of the door and see if that increases the noise. If so, the door may need adjustment. It can be made to fit a little tighter.
I understand your desire to fix it yourself. I usually feel the same way. However, to have the weather stripping replaced or the door adjusted, the dealer may be the best bet. Your LS will have minimal wind noise when the sealing is right and the doors are adjusted properly.
Good chance it is the miles on your car. I remember at LS Mania everyone driving that poor stick shift factory car around the pilon course. Almost NO rest for the car between circuts and drivers. I was one of the last to drive it at lunch time and there was no discernible brake fade at all. That really impressed me.
I'm pretty sure it's the miles. I've just gotten a front and rear set of carbon/kevlar brake pads to try out. They are supposed to be pretty bulletproof to fade and not have very much brake dust and quiet. I'll keep everyone posted on how they work and who we got them from.
P.S. In any of the other cars I've owned, I'm sure we would have hit the mountain. In the LS, I knew once it slowed down enough it would come back into line. It did with nary a quiver. My Mustang GT would have whipped it's tail into the mountain.
The first thing you should try (and I concur I would rather fix it myself) is to spray silicone lubricant on all of the weather stripping. That is the first thing they do at the dealership. This makes the rubber slide on it's seal and makes for a much better seal. It can also ruin a suit if you are not careful. Wipe off any excess and see if it is any better. If it is just a folded or wrinkled or mis seated weather stripping, this usually works. If it doesn't work, you are only out a couple of squirts of silicone lubricant. When I rent a car for a trip I always take some lubricant along as I sure don't want to have a whining or whistling car for the duration. It almost always works.
ITH's seem to be standard on most Ford vehicles. My Taurus even had them, so I was surprised to see the LS with them, and for free no doubt. Way to go Lincoln.
Comments
I also agree that my "wow" factor was huge when I drove the 540i 6 speed, because of what I was drving at the time. A loaner BMW 318ti. Spunky little car, great handling (even with the old E30 rear suspension bits), but going directly from 138hp to 282hp gets a bigger grin than going from 252hp to 282hp. ;-)
XW4Z 16A550-AA (front) and XW4Z 16A550-BA (rear)
They only come in matte black, but they're molded to fit the inner fender contours and are really unobtrusive. The black trim around the bottom of the car allows them to blend in quite well, even on a light-colored LS like mine (ivory).
The Ford Parts Network website has them for $19.95 for each pair. You can find a link at the Lincoln LS Owners Club website at http://www.llsoc.com --just click on "links" and you'll see it. Go to the online catalog section and you'll find them.
I ordered mine with my car; I believe I paid $55 installed. (That was the total for all 4.) They're easy to put on, but you have to remove the wheels to get the rears on according to what other people have said. You might be able to avoid wheel removal if you use one of those angled screwdrivers; I'm not sure.
At any rate, they're worth it; they really help keep brake dust off the fenders in addition to providing protection from rocks and mud and such. They even have a small Lincoln logo molded into the plastic.
If your LS is a 2000 though, you should insist that they do the TSB anyway. Good luck.
I've got the mud flaps and they're great. I think I paid the dealer $60.00 installed. Though they did it during prep time so it might be more if special visit required.
Can someone point me to the pages which have the torque curves for the LS engines please? Thanks.
George
Those are the correct splash guard numbers. I just checked my invoice. I paid $20 per set. IIRC, they wanted to charge $35 per until I told them that they were $20 elsewhere. They GLADLY sold them to me for $20. You do have to remove the rear wheels as you need to drill 1 or 2 holes, I can't remember. On the front, all you have to do is turn the wheels. It took me about an hour to do it and I spent some time looking over the suspension. As others have said, they are well worth the investment!
I'm back! And completely reformed. [Trivia question - In what Kubrick movie is that line spoken by the main character?]
My LS6M has about 3500 miles now. What a beaut she is. Night before last I was dueling with a 540i and a C240 on hiway 17. The C got dusted (could have been due to a sane driver, as opposed to me and the BMW guy) and the 5 and I had a lot of fun on those curves. He actually fishtailed just a tiny bit around a quick right hand turn.
Thanks for the picture tip. I had looked around LLSOC but hadn't looked there. Now I need to commit to memory: 2700 or so to 5200 or so for max torque.
G
ONLY 3500?! Is Mrs. Heyjewel keeping you from behind the wheel? ;~) And to pick on a 540i! Good for you! I'll bet he was surprised that you ran with him!
The mud flaps are cheaper at the Ford Parts Network. They are 19.99 for the front or rear sets.
Brian
Trivia hint: Most women I know have real trouble watching this movie, though it's arguably Kubrick's best. There's a color in the title.
At the risk of being accused of contributing to the off-topic topic, I gotta answer this one.
Alex said it in "A Clockwork Orange". Reformation courtesy of eye drops and Ludwig Van. ;-)
J.Linc, unable to resist...
My LS is more than a static kinetic sculpure to me. The Coninator.
I've been using Black Magic on my motorcycle seat, panniers, and other plastic and rubber parts for several years.
Note that Black Magic also markets a Paint Protectant. Be sure to get the correct one for plastic.
For the price, this is one heck of a value (albeit in inferior FWD mode)!!! Not to mention a good warranty and great reliability track record. All that acceleration along with sunroof, Vehicle Stability Assist, heated seats, and other amenities optional in the LS. Lincoln, are you paying attention?
Tomorrow, I shall listen to Luvly, luvly Ludwig Van in my LS CD changer on my way to another nice day at the factory.
Well, I'm after takin me sleepers, g'nite.
Now back to a message from our sponsor.
Has anyone been able to rent an LS with Hertz?
Thanks to Mike, AKA ezconair, we had our first Southern Southern California get together, San Diego. Just a small gathering with four of us, Mike, Brian G. and Ray B., but the company was great and the cars were greater. Brian and Ray have some really nice wheels and I personally like the rims that Brian has better, but they both look great and make the cars look really aggressive. Now the exhaust on Brians car sounds great. It is slightly different than stock, but fits the profile of the more sporty LS perfectly. It has the low roar like a Mustang but not near as obtrusive.
So, to the fun part of the drive, we got to do some really aggressive Mania style driving. I will let Brian post the details about where to get the drive on the llsoc board. But we had six miles of unobstucted, let it all hang out, turns, switchbacks, harpins, and heartpounding excitement. The best part about it was the LS going every step of the way with me. The LS was able to corner with ease and balance, and while in most cars you would spin out around an aggressive turn, not in this baby. It had great driver feedback and control, keeping me in the center of all the action. We have to do some Mania style events again, or plan some club Solo races where we all go out in unison and show our stuff, but also have a blast driving.
I slept very good last night dreaming about those curves and when I can do it again. I had driven the road before on my motorcycle, but it was a totally different, more exciting, experience in the LS. One you don't want to miss the oppty to do when we next travel. And for those of you who feel, I can't drive aggressively like that, well think again. The car is such a forgiving machine that it will help out even the amatuer racer. And if you like the adrenaline of roller coasters, well nothing compares to what we just did in the LS.
I do have some comments, everyone that posts all the comments about the LS having imperfections, well, every car has them, and with the LS, after a drive like that, I don't care, not that I did before. The car was more than great at meeting my demands.
Another comment is that Mike is a great driver. He has the V6 and was able to keep right on my tail through the whole course. And I have a V8. So all those who say the V6 doesn't have power, I would have to debate that. Maybe he is just more aggressive than I, but whatever the case, he had just as much fun as I going through the turns and we both have 16" wheels, non-sport cars.
To Liconln, thanks for a great car and I know with the dedication you have, it will only get better with time. I truly look forward to the changes and being able to pick up a new LS with more of what I already feel is a great car.
Jeff
Tom
You're missing my point. All I'm saying is Lincoln had better be paying attention. With similar options to my LS8 Sport, it is about $8,000 cheaper, and in many ways outperforms mine. And its reliability is likely to be top notch. Nor did it take Acura forever to make a serious Sport model that provides large performance enhancements to the base 3.2TL. God help us if Acura ever puts a manual tranny in her. 0-60 in what, 5.5 secs?
Why then, do Acura's regularly destroy BMW's in road races on Speedvision? This occurs on the shorter, tighter courses, later in the race when tire wear is an issue. The BMW's have the advantage on 'speed' courses, but are at a disadvantage on 'handling' courses.
I'm not itching for an argument; I'm sincerely looking for knowledge.
Also, the LS (& maybe the GS) have sunvisors that slide on their supporting rod, allowing side coverage to the B-pillar ... just like my dad's 1941 Plymouth. They don't put any electronics in the visor; home-link is in the headliner.
So, should we let Brian explain? :~)
Mark
As far as Acura being quick to market with a performance version, I think it is true that most (if not all) Japanese auto companies run a much quicker product development cycle than either their American or European counterparts, and average about 2 years. We know that our LS is currently running on at least a 3 year development cycle due to the fact that no appreciable differences are expected until the '03 MY. For competitive purposes, FoMoCo should concentrate on improving their development cycles. Based on conversations at the Mania event, FoMoCo is working hard in this area.
Purely from my perspective, Lincoln has removed any differences in quality between their product (the LS) vs. the competition. Since I'm not planning on replacing my ride before '05, I'm not that concerned about product development cycles; just that products improve, and remain competitive. Again, based on conversations at Mania 1 in Irvine, I'm confident that Lincoln will more than answer the call. FWIW.
The LS is far far more comfortable to me, and the seats don't pinch you but still manage to provide enough side bolstering to hold you in place in corners. I also personally think the LS looks better and feels more solid. It was more than I had planned to spend, but I don't regret it.
That being said, my "want" list for the perfect (to me) LS is fairly short. I would like the following:
-VVT
-Shorter rear gearing
-Limited slip differential
-Better gear ratio spacing in the tranny (SST)
-A way to secure the glovebox and trunk when using valet parking (something I think is addressed in the 2001 LS, mine is a late 2000)
-Backlighting on the radio buttons like the climate control (and most other Ford radios) have.
The suspension is a nearly perfect mix of comfort and handling,the brakes work really well, the high speed acceleration is amazing, the car is smooth and quiet, and even though my V8 Sport doesn't have the high end sound system, replacing the stock speakers makes a big difference for little money.
So, my wish list is relatively small. In reality, I understand why the gear ratios and rear end are the way they are, thanks to our over regulatory government, but the LSD and VVT would make up for most off the line performance issues. I think Lincoln hit remarkably close to the mark for a new car design, and if they improve it in only a few areas it should be competetive with most anything.
I was at a nursery today looking at trees, and the guy came up and said "When did Lincoln start making something that small?" Funny comment, but understandable considering the land yachts they've made.
Can't say I agree with answer to number 2. Assuming FWD and RWD cars weigh 4,000 pounds and the RWD is 50/50 while FWD is 63/37. Initially there is only 2,000 pounds of weight on the rear drive wheels of the RWD versus 2,520 pounds on the front drive wheels of the FWD. So are they saying that over 520 pounds of weight (13% of the car's total weight) shifts to the rear? The engine, transaxle, driver, front suspension, etc. all stay forward of the center of gravity.
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The downside to this fact occured in the middle of a 15mph 110 degree right-hander that I happened to be in at around 40mph. The brakes disappeared on me. Not the most serene moment that I've experienced in a while
Remembering my prior racing experience of when things go to hell in a handbasket, stomp on the brakes and present as much tire surface area as possible to scrub your speed off with, I found myself sliding front first toward a rather large, uh, mountain!
Not saying that I stopped close, but when I got to were the three musketeers had stopped to compare notes, the driver's side front wheel had dirt from the, um, corner padding inside the wheel and the tire was covered with dirt.
Mind you, my car has 47,000 miles on the brakes and it was the second trip through the 3-mile road. So I don't blame the car or brake design. I should have let the brakes cool down a bit more before heading back in.
Even after all that, nothing beat the look on the guy with the BMW Z-3 as he came around a corner and witnessed the four of our LSes screaming around the turn!
While we were all admiring our cars at the event, we did notice that we all had the ITH option, which we found out wasn't mentioned in any of the discussions
And thanks to packv12, alphastein and ezaircon for a great day! Even the ladies seemed to enjoy themselves. And ezaircon has volunteered to be the SoCal Region Director for LLSOC.
Brian
I don't think 13% of the car's total weight is an unreasonable figure, considering that 100% of the car's weight routinely shifts to the rear wheels in high-performance cars (in the form of a wheelie) which have sufficient power and traction. I wonder how well a FWD vehicle would perform in that situation, assumming it could get enough traction to get into it?
"The engine, transaxle, driver, front suspension, etc. all stay forward of the center of gravity."
That's a really good question- a complex situation, more than I know, but my guess is that it is the height of the centre of mass above the ground which causes rotation of the vehicle about the rear wheels, and so the centre of gravity applies only when the vehicle is in equilibrium or at rest. So all the mass of those things could actually be CONTRIBUTING to the lifting of the front end.
I think performance in FWD cars is conveyed to the driver by this lack of traction on acceleration because it causes tire screech, which, even though it is indicative of a LACK of performance (loss of traction), is perceived by the ear to be a sign of GREAT performance. You can thus install a smaller engine in a FWD car and get the "chirp" sound equivalent to a RWD vehicle with a bigger engine. (Automakers do precisely that and then put a "sport" sticker on the side of the vehicle.)
Interesting isn't it. The actual measured acceleration statistics of vehicle "A" with good traction might be much better than vehicle "B", but the loss of traction and thus lower performance of "B" translates the opposite perception (tire screech=performance and power) to the driver.
Such was GLeen's experience - BMW was able to take a vehicle which is statistically inferior (in acceleration) to another and give it certain characteristics which allowed it to be perceived as being better. Good for them.
I'd be interested to know if there is anything in that RWD quiz which anyone can scientifically or theoretically prove incorrect. It contains facts which I have held as truths for decades.
Cheers all - Brian.
REl Acura TL, I agree with swaugar's comments, #2988. The TL was the best handling, best feeling FWD sedan I test drove. Like swaugar I could simply not find a comfortable driving position. The only way I could avoid hitting my head on the roof was to tilt the seat way back so I was a mile from the steering wheel. I also echo his LS wish list. Hopefully with the 2004 Mustang based on DEW98 there will finally be a LSD rear end available for the LS, as I can't imagine a Mustang GT or Cobra being sold without LSD.
Rather than Lincoln trying to compete in that arena, it would seem more appropriate for Ford to bring back the SHO, only this time develop it to it's full potential. It doesn't appear that they will do that.
By the way, does anyone know what percentage of LSs sold have been V6s? I would also be curious about the sales results of sport packaged cars versus non-sport.
I understand your desire to fix it yourself. I usually feel the same way. However, to have the weather stripping replaced or the door adjusted, the dealer may be the best bet. Your LS will have minimal wind noise when the sealing is right and the doors are adjusted properly.
Bruce
P.S. In any of the other cars I've owned, I'm sure we would have hit the mountain. In the LS, I knew once it slowed down enough it would come back into line. It did with nary a quiver. My Mustang GT would have whipped it's tail into the mountain.