Due to a lack of participants (16 as of 6/1)and no foreseeable ability to make the threshold number, I have cancelled LS MANIA 2. All monies will be returned by certified mail that will get mailed tommorow.
We could not even satisfy the 50 that might have had a chance at getting sponsorship to allow us to do the 50 people instead of the 100 initially. The sponsor that was interested backed out due to concern over the lack of participants.
No one is more upset, frustrated and disappointed than I am. I was hoping to draw enough interest that would have made this a special event.
It's obvious that at this stage of the club's development there aren't enough people to satisfy a national event such as this. So until the club grows substantially there will not be any national events scheduled. We will focus on local events centered around the individual state chapters.
I am truly sorry to all the people who had their hearts set on this event that I was not able to pull the required number of participants together.
I picked her up today. A 2001 V8 Sport w/ AdvanceTrac, moonroof, and heated seats. Charcoal/light graphite. My first new car and quite a step up from the '93 Olds Cutlass Supreme I had been driving.
I'll try to follow up with some first impressions tomorrow... But for now let's just say that I've already found myself volunteering to go run errands...any excuse to go drive.
And I look forward to participating here & in the LLSOC. You guys helped me with some of my questions a few weeks ago, too, so thanks.
CONGRATULATIONS Randall!! Welcome to the club! I see you've found out how fast and complete the LS bug bites! The wound is also fatal! You will never be able to go back! You have entered "The LS Zone"! The LS will control the horizontal (I know, different series), it will control the speed, it will control YOU!!!! So just sit back and..........ENJOY!! :~)
Oh, yes, you're in for it now. Finding the longest route to wherever you're going. Arriving at work wishing it were further away from home. The weird feeling in your face after driving a long stretch of twisty road (brought about by grinning like an idiot the whole time). The "what IS that?" look from the driver of the "sports" car you just left in the dust. You are well and truly hooked. And it's OK to feel a little bit smug; you've paid for the privilege. Just be kind. Not everyone is endowed with the astuteness and excellent taste we LS owners are blessed with.
2 cents worth of advice: If you don't already have them, consider the factory mud guards. They really help keep the lower body clean, and they're very unobtrusive, practically invisible on a dark car like yours. About $40 for both pairs and pretty easy to install.
Stan - excellant play-by-play pictorial on the LLSOC site - now you've piqued my interest. I have a 2000 Sport (mfg. date 10/99) with the Premium stereo (prior to Lincoln cutting back due to CAFE regs). It has the 12 speaker setup. So my question to the group is this: would upgrading speakers make a difference? From what I've read over the past few months on this site, upgrading the non-premium (if that's what it's called) really makes a difference. I just hate to waste time and money if I happen to be one of the lucky ones who got the good stereo with adequate speakers.
A few weeks ago I congratulated Lincoln on a new LS TV ad that finally emphasized the "S"(sport) in LS. Another new one appeared last night. This one's even better! It opens with a car-not immediately identifiable- taking hairpin turns. Just as I was saying to myself oh great, another "ultimate driving machine" ad, an LS appeared! I forgot exactly what the voice over was saying, but it sure got me interested, and I already own one.
Kudos to whoever is behind the new campaign. I don't even care if it's a little derivative-loved it! Keep up the good work, LM.
Congratulations and welcome to randatola. You will now be transported back to the day you first got your driver's license and volunteered to get milk for your mother.
Has anyone seen any TV movies or shows with LS in them? I just found this great LS ad, but have not seen it published anywhere. I hope Lincoln decides to use this ad more in major press.
Also are there any scale models of the LS made and sold? I know I can purchase the T-bird model but not the LS. I just checked out the www.bmwfilms.com site and the film ads are great!I hope LM is looking at BMW ad campaing as well to learn from the "ultimate sport sedan company".
Last weekend I asked the owner of the "Cars The Stars" store in the Crown Plaza shopping center, Kansas City, if he had any LS models, regardless of size or composition (metal or plastic). He didn't. He hadn't seen any and wasn't aware of any. He did have some smaller Jag S-type metal scale models. This store specializes in all things automotive, esp. scale models (primarily metal).
My 2000 LS V8 Sport now has 18,000 miles on it and I recently returned from Revelstoke to Calgary, which involves crossing the Selkirk and Rocky Mountains with relatively severe grades. Driving at 60 to 70 mph, and on 87 gas, she averaged 27.4 mpg with Barry a ping. Buying the LS was one of the smartest moves I ever made. Now that I have retired I hate to think how I'll replace her when that awful time comes!
Last week I had to replace a cracked windshield and went to a glass shop advertising, "pay no more than $150 deductible." My insurance has a $500 deductible and yet they only charged me $150. We discussed the $500 figure but they insisted that all I owed was $150. How can this be? Incidentally, they quoted a cash price of $589 which seems remarkably low.
Great article on PAG, lets hope Reitzle as a lot of influence on the 2003 LS.
I just came back from a 755 mile trip. I manually calculated milege for one tank full in the middle of the trip, 424 miles @ 24.8 MPG. This was about 390 miles of highway driving at 75 - 80 with about 150 miles of it into a 30 MPH headwind and 35 miles of stop & go driving off the highway. I compared notes with someone what had just bought an Audi S4 turbo, he had looked at the LS but decided to stay with Audi. He reported about 16 MPG around town with his S4 and 24 MPG on the highway. Interestingly, he said his A8, that he just got rid of, to get the S4 got better gas milage than the S4!!
I test drove the LS this weekend and here are my findimgs:
Trunk - is huge Pickup - is not there at all Interior - nice but there are some cheap buttons on top. leather- looks cheap sales person - seems desperate
I will lease another BMW 5 530i series.
Sorry folks, I gave it a shot. I looked at the LS with an open mind. The thing that keeps me with the BMW is the tourque.
Interesting that Reitzle gets upset at a garish Mazda Exhibit next door to the Jag space, but somehow LS's at shows are out of the traffic flow, have paint defects, and some other issues mentioned on this board.
I have to wonder if the U.S. products are as close to his heart as European vehicles.
What LS did you test drive? LS6? Auto or manual? LS8? Base or Sport?
Wondering if you gave the LS a fair chance. Of your five comments about your "test drive", only one actually involves driving the car, and that observation sounds like it could've been gleaned from a stoplight or two. I'm wondering how much of a test drive you took. Did you even drive it for more than 30 minutes? More than 50 miles? On varying roads (esp. ones with nice curves)? Did you have the salesperson with you while taking the test drive?
If you didn't test an LS8 Sport and drive it a decent amount of time & miles on winding roads, at high interstate speeds, etc. then not sure you got to see much of the LS's capabilities.
As regards "pickup", I can't believe that a 530i automatic is that much quicker than an LS8. And don't forget that Lincoln is aggressively subsidizing interest rates.
I tested the 2001 LS-V8 automatic. Again, when I hit the gas peddle the response is not there as it is in my 1998 528iA or the 2001 525iA or 2001 530iA.
I did like the LS though but I am sticking with the BMW 5 series.
It has been my experience that most people who are considering buying either a BMW or an LS know how to spell "pedal". Most kids don't. Besides what do you expect from someone who thinks the trunk in an LS is "huge". I like my LS, but I never thought the trunk was huge. Adequate, maybe, akward certainly, but not huge. I think someone is putting us on.
No comparison with regard to acceleration and throttle responsiveness. I drove the 528 in 1998 and wasn't impressed with the Bavarian Barnstormer. Overpriced for what you get.
Let's be civil here on people's opinions.... Telling a BMW owner to take an LS out for an extended drive probably won't impress them given that the BMW has a 51/49 weight distribution. I also find it hard to believe that a 525iA could compare to an LS8 for acceleration but a 530iA beats an LS8 (as far as specks go). Keep in mind that the 5-series is a smaller/lighter car so it will accelerate better. Also, the rear seat is cramped and the trunk is tiny, so the LS trunk does indeed look huge. Is the BMW worth the extra money... I can't justify it, but others can.
There's a little bit of anti-BMW sentiment here. Speaking strictly for myself, I find them to be a bit overpriced, and get very tired of the "enthusiast" magazines blind devotion. They criticized American cars for decades for their tendency to understeer, yet when the new 3-series exhibited that characteristic, Car and Driver hailed it as "safe". And when they criticize the LS compared to BMW, they seem to pick whichever series of BMW that best makes their particular point.
But, to each his (or her) own. If we all liked the same thing we'd all still be driving Henry's Model A (black, of course). I'm glad you posted back here and told us what you decided on and why.
To each his own. I test drove the LS-V8 (non-sport) and loved it. So did my wife. We were ready to buy, but as a lark went up the street to the BMW dealer and drove the 530 (non-sport). I say as a lark, because our daughter owns a 328 and I wouldn't consider it comapared to an LS. I didn't think the 530 would be that much different than the 3-series. Wrong! The 3 and 5 series are two different cars, they just look alike.
The LS and 530 are also two different cars. The 530 handling is phenomenal and the LS only slightly less so. Acceleration is comparable. For us, the 530 is a much more comfortable car to sit in and drive especially with the optional 16 way seats. It is also more quiet in the interior. The LS trunk is larger and rear seating is comparable. Overall, the 530 feels and drives like a more refined car than the LS. Is it worth the difference in cost?
Bought the 530 after we rationalized the cost differential. Not an easy decision.
I think anyone who is seriously considering the LS or 3 or 5 Series should take 'em out for some real serious test drives to find out for themselves how they compare on the type roads the driver encounters & likes. Don't do the quick "dealer tour", and avoid having the salesperson there. When looking at LSs, potential buyers should drive both Sport and non-Sport models.
As for acceleration figures for 528/530 automatics versus LS8, does anyone have any published results? LS8 in 7.2-7.5 sec range with top speed in Sport at about 140 mph.
Hey, to each his own. If anything, this thread supports our stance that both LS's need to get VVT in order to seriously compete with the competetion. LS is a heavy car, and both LS's need at least an additional 30hp each to be up to 2001 standards in their class. Period.
And yes, BMW's 3.0 liter 6 cylinder engine in the 330 and 530 is a powerful, torquey engine. I tend to believe that BMW even underestimates their HP figures. These guys can make a motor. They get ~320hp from the naturally aspirated six cylinder in the current M3, AND its evenly spread across the entire rev band. Now thats technology and engineering.
With that said, still impressed with my 2000 LS V6 Sport Auto
Gerard, Thanks for taking the time to test drive the LS and your feedback on why you chose BMW over Lincoln. I hope you consider revisiting Lincoln when it comes time to replace your 530! Happy motoring,
BTW, can anybody tell me what a 530 prices out as? I've not had the time to check. TIA, Scooter
In www.kbb.com the 530iA has a MSRP of $48,720. This includes:
Auto Tranny Heated front seats Headlight washers Gararge door opener Power passenger seat leather seats auto day/night mirror wood trim rain-sensing wipers pwr moon roof lumbar support automatic sun shade xenon lamps in dash CD split rear seat upgrade to comfort seats heated steering wheel
cost is 43,770 and they are selling at $2 above cost or around $2k below MSRP.
Because of this I am leaning toward the 525iA which would $4k lower.
I agree with some of the other folks who responded to the LS vs BMW. To each their own...period. When I was looking to purchase my LS8 Sport I to looked at several other cars...I've driven Ford products for a long time. My last car was a Mark VIII that I drove for 6 years. Did I give the other cars that I looked at a fair shake...You bet !!! ( I looked at the GS300and 400, BMW535, Mustang GT; I even thought about changing gears and looked at the Toyota Avalon and Lexus ES300 ). Bottom line, I bought the LS. When you look at the big picture; price, warranty, financing, fit and finish, quality of the car in total, and throw in 3 years of free service........to me the choice was easy....In summary Lincoln has their loyal owners, BMW, Toyota, and even Chevy have theirs.
I appologize for being so brief in my last post, and I didn't want to disparage the BMW 528 in any way . . . it is a fine car . . . just too much money for what you get, IMHO. I had a much more favorable impression of the Audi A6, and was seriously considering the 2.7T/Quattro version before ultimately selecting the LS8 sport. The Audi, however, was about $7K more than my LS. The leather was sumptuous (unlike the BMW), the rear seating was much more accomodating, and the trunk was roomier in comparison with the BMW (complete with non-intrusive hinges as opposed to goose necks). The 2.7T had about 40 more HP than the 528 and cost about the same.
I ultimately chose the LS8 sport because I liked the exterior styling more, and the performance per dollar represented what I considered to be a significant advantage. To each his own . . . you bet! I'm just not interested in paying a premium for a car badge simply for its reputation and marketing hype as "the ultimate driving machine". The proof for the BMW was not in the drive.
I attended a Mercedes test drive event this weekend. The test track was pretty short and there wasn't a lot of time to try many different things as the lines on some cars were a bit long. The only competing model I drove was a BMW 325 and really wasn't impressed with the cabin layout and comfort. It may have been better had there been enough time to find all the adjustments and take a "real" test drive, so I give it the benefit of the doubt. They had the new C-coupe which isn't in the dealers yet. I didn't drive it because we already have an '01 C240. Besides, the thing looks like a Focus from the rear :-D. It was a lot of fun, my favorite drive being a CLK430 - drove heavier than my LS8 but definitely posh intererior and plenty of zip. The Bose sound system in the CLK and the S430 were top notch.
Bottom line: no matter what the specs and stats are, you really have to go with your feel. GLeen - if you liked the 530 you are the one writing the check go for it! If I had my Apr '00 purchasing decision to do over, I probably would have seriously considered ponying up the extra bucks for the CLK. But then I didn't do a lot of shopping and really didn't know exactly what I wanted. Frankly, the Mercedes lot was a bit intimidating until I met the salesman that ultimately put us in the C240. All that being said, my '00 LS8 has been a decent value and I have not regretted owning one, with the exception of my initial dealership experience which has since been resolved.
we could marry the LS with the BMW M-engine? Give us the best of both worlds. GLeen thank you for your feedback. The other issue that GLeen and most of us would have a problem with is that BMW dealers usually have a much better service reputation than Lincoln dealers. I've received quite a few emails from younger owners who have told me that they were basically ignored when they walked into the Lincoln dealerships to check out the LS. I lucked out and got a great dealer but Lincoln dealers have a long way to go before they get to the customer service level of a BMW delaer. So as much as we LS owners don't like it, the reality is Lincoln still has a way to go to convince people that the LS will match the perception of excellence of a BMW. They have to go after the whole package, advertising, build quality, dealer commitment. BMW has been pretty single-minded about what they expected from their cars. If Ford (notice I didn't say Lincoln) would devote this type of purpose to the only American car company in the Premier Auto Group, then the LS might have a chance. If not, it doesn't stand a snowballs chance in hell to compete, much less survive in the class it's competing against.
BMW may have superior service levels over the vast majority of Lincoln dearlers, but there are some VERY definite drawbacks. First, if you have a problem far from a major metropolitan area, you'll be greatly inconvenienced in getting repairs implemented. You also pay dearly for the superior service levels, BMWs, like most European products, are significantly more expensive to maintain due to parts availability, availability of trained technicians, etc.
While I didn't state this in my previous post, there are only one or two Audi or BMW dealerships in the Phoenix, Arizona metro area. Once you're outside Phoenix, good luck in finding service!
For all their faults, at least you can find a Ford dealer anywhere you're likely to drive.
I haven't had any problems with my LS8, and I've had excellent service from my Lincoln dealership. I understand that my experience isn't necessarily "typical", but I don't necessarily think its atypical either.
My point about servicing for Lincoln is that you are not held "hostage" to a single (or at least limited) dealership. If I needed to, I could bring my LS in for service at virtually any Ford dealership, reglardless of where I am. Obviously, Ford's dealership network is FAR more extensive than any foreign competitor offers. Knock wood, I haven't yet had a car problem outside the Phoenix area, but if I did, I'd far more easily find service for a FoMoCo product than a foreign brand.
As has been pointed out by several people on this board, BMWs have their problems as well.
The 2001 brochure states 530i acceleration times as: auto 7.0 sec, manual 6.8 sec. I have the manual and the 6.8 feels about right (how's that for scientific?)
Re: maintenance costs: from what I hear the dealers are without mercy. But at least the first 36/36 is included free. May have to sell car after that...!
According to JD Power, 11 2000 model year makes had fewer troubles reported per 100 vehicles than BMW (377), including Lincoln (337), Buick (340) and Cadillac (361). So don't try to justify your decision based on that incorrect perception. There is something to be said for dealer service, however.
But if you're now looking at the 525 instead of the 530 you need to go back and retest the LS8. You may be subconsciously comparing the LS with the 530 performance wise, not the 525. If you still think the 525 is for you, great.
Personally I think the LS exterior and dimensions, Audi A6 interior with a BMW drivetrain would be almost perfect.
akirby (#2837) is absolutely correct in regard to the 525iA comment. LS8 certainly competitive with 525iA in acceleration and top speed, and still far less expensive. Anyone have any published figures for 525iA? Thinking its MSRP starts around $40,000. Rises fast with a few options.
Pricewise, 528i/530i really compete with Jag S-type. These are $45-60K cars, esp. if heavily optioned. Mere fact we are discussing the $32-40K LS vis-a-vis great car like 5 Series shows what an exceptional value the LS, esp. LS6 manual and LS8 Sport, can be!!!
I say my comments about BMWs being one of the biggest, most vocal fans of their magnificent I-6 engines. (I couldn't imagine owning a V-8 BMW, unless it was a 540i 6-speed. Give me an I-6 M any day!!! If only I could afford...)
Same nitpicks but here's a neat quote at the end of the article:
"For Clor, driving the Lincoln LS rarely failed to bring a smile, and driving it hard could even be gleeful. And despite its inherent shortfalls, the fact that it's not a BMW made it all the more satisfying."
Thanks for the price figures. Once again, shows what a great buy the LS8 Sport or LS6 manual Sport are. I paid about $36K for my loaded '00 LS8 Sport, with a $39,400 MSRP (w/heated seats, Alpine audiophile stereo, 6-disc CD changer, AdvanceTrac stability control, and sunroof). Wonder what a 525iA with those options would cost?
What are the performance figures for the 525iA? Do you believe the 525iA has "pickup", but the LS8 doesn't? I'd be willing to bet that the LS8 Sport can outperform it in most acceleration and top speed measures. And with its 52/48 weight distribution, it is competitive in handling measures as well.
..I was trying to figure out the same thing. Gleen states the LS8 Sport didnt have enough acceleration for him (0-60 in 7.2, if my memory serves me correctly) but the 525ia did? While we are at it, the 530i has a figure of 0-60mph in 7.0 for its automatic transmission. Does .2 tenths of a second make that much difference to someone? And who are these people (I sound like Seinfeld) doing 0-60mph every day?? I dunno...again, to each his own. Everyone has to rate his own values. But Im trying to figure out if 2 tenths of a second is worth the more than $8k in dollars one would pay for a 530ia over a LSV8 Sport. And now Gleen is leaning towards the 525ia, which is slower than the V8? Im trying to figure out where the priorities are here. Is it acceleration? If so, then Im really confused in his decision making process..
My 1998 528i, which has a up of 192, has excellent torque and so does the 2001 525ia with a up of 184. If we are to speak in terms of 0-60 in I seconds, then it is all about torque. The bimmers are known for their excellence in this area.
I thought the LS was nice but I would miss the instant response. Again I am only comparing automatic to automatic. The manual may be a different story but I doubt it.
Think you've got us LS owners thoroughly confused. Your test drive report mentioned about 5 items. Only one was driving related. It was poor pickup. Now you want to buy a more expensive car that at best has only similar performance to the less expensive LS8 Sport?
What are the performance figures for the 525iA? Hope you stick with reality over perception when it comes to things like "pickup" and "instant response".
Don't think you ever did answer one of my initial questions. Please describe the test drive you took in the LS. (Was it an LS8 base or Sport?) How many minutes & miles, what type roads, with salesperson, over dealer's route? Have you taken a 525iA over same route? Hope you do.
Don't forget that Lincoln is about giving away '01 LS leases and heavily subsidizing financing. Great car, great price/value, great financing! Does 525iA get you all 3? Two? One?
I had the misfortune of backing into a "rough-hewn" cinder block wall. The accident left what I'll term "pepper dings" along the entire rear bumper fascia. It looks like a mini-meteorite shower pummelled it. Waxing this weekend didn't cover the dings. Most of the damage appears only as deep as the clearcoat; but some of it does gouge into the paint.
Short of having the entire bumper fascia replaced and painted, any other ideas for hiding the damage? (and yes, driving lessons have already been suggested...)
You could always add a humungous rear wing spoiler like the rice racers do. That way no one would pay attention to the back bumper
I think you may not have much of a choice other than living with it or replacing it. If it was only as deep as the clearcoat you would still end up buffing off the clearcoat to get it smooth and then need to put it back on. bumpers.com has the LS fascias for about $100.
Inquiring minds want to know. Or, if you prefer in my case, one slow blockhead? Is that asking too much? I'm just trying to see if you really gave the LS a chance.
When I bought my '00 LS8 Sport I did so on a lark. I had spent much of the day trying to buy a 323iA. But the price was too high for what you got. Left BMW dealer frustrated on a cold December Saturday afternoon. Saw a mega dealer two lots down. Selling Porsche, Audi, VW, Mazda, Mercury and Lincoln. Looked at an A4 auto. Wasn't impressed given its price. So while walkin' lot ran across a green LS8 Sport that my wife loved. It had all the options I wanted, the exact mix. Only then, in desperation & despair, did I test drive it. Like it much better than A4 or 323i. Talk about value for the money! Never did test drive and A6 or 525/528. Out of my price range for the options I'd want.
Yet one more "wrench" in the works. The LS engines are VERY tight. Until you get a few miles on them, they're dogs. I needed a couple thousand to have the motor rev freely.
On the LS, leather is standard. To get a "like" equipped BMW, the 3-series cost $4-6k more and the 5-series $8-10k. WAY over my budget. Besides, there are about 8 BMW's in the parking lot at work (<150 cars at a time) and 1 other LS. My fellow LS owner doesn't get the car much so mine is really the only one. There are also 4 GS300's.
Sorry to hear about the disagreement you had with the wall.
While I have been using Mother's Wax, polish and cleaners on my black LS, I was quite interested in a commercial I saw for a new product by Turtle Wax called Color Cure. It is basically a colored wax (available in red, blue, white and black) and it also comes with a "lipstick" type crayon that you apply to deep scratches. The idea behind the colored wax is that it is supposed to get rid of light scratches and swirl marks. Yeah, I know, these things always work great on TV!
Well I decided to try it to get rid of some stone chips and much to my amazement, it really did do a fantastic job! Might be worth a shot on your car.
(to me at least) that the LS Mania II can implode with nary a comment on this board, until mine, here. It tends to reinforce my opinion that the bulk of the folks who participate and 99.99% of the people who buy the car could give a rip about its performance capabilities. The 15 - 20 of us who showed up in January (plus a possible similar number (tho more likely half as many) on the East Coast) represent most of the total population of people who care about things like manual transmissions, four-wheel drifts, learning how to do cone courses, and all the rest. The number of people who post here about cross-country drives, twisty little-known roads, performance modifications or measurements, or the other things Brian is trying to cultivate on the LS Site, is miniscule compared to the 60 - 80,000 people who have bought this car.
My only hope is that they continue to make the LS, and particularly the manual, for enough years to assure spare parts in the future. The bean counters have a way of erasing vehicles that don't "pay for themselves," which is why we're likely to never have a V8 manual.
Comments
We could not even satisfy the 50 that might have had a chance at getting sponsorship to allow us to do the 50 people instead of the 100 initially. The sponsor that was interested backed out due to concern over the lack of participants.
No one is more upset, frustrated and disappointed than I am. I was hoping to draw enough interest that would have made this a special event.
It's obvious that at this stage of the club's development there aren't enough people to satisfy a national event such as this. So until the club grows substantially there will not be any national events scheduled. We will focus on local events centered around the individual state chapters.
I am truly sorry to all the people who had their hearts set on this event that I was not able to pull the required number of participants together.
Brian Gowing
I'll try to follow up with some first impressions tomorrow... But for now let's just say that I've already found myself volunteering to go run errands...any excuse to go drive.
And I look forward to participating here & in the LLSOC. You guys helped me with some of my questions a few weeks ago, too, so thanks.
Cordially as always,
Randall
2 cents worth of advice: If you don't already have them, consider the factory mud guards. They really help keep the lower body clean, and they're very unobtrusive, practically invisible on a dark car like yours. About $40 for both pairs and pretty easy to install.
Enjoy.
Kudos to whoever is behind the new campaign. I don't even care if it's a little derivative-loved it! Keep up the good work, LM.
Congratulations and welcome to randatola. You will now be transported back to the day you first got your driver's license and volunteered to get milk for your mother.
http://www.naa.org/classified/dandy01/buc1_FULL.html
Also are there any scale models of the LS made and sold? I know I can purchase the T-bird model but not the LS. I just checked out the www.bmwfilms.com site and the film ads are great!I hope LM is looking at BMW ad campaing as well to learn from the "ultimate sport sedan company".
http://www.detnews.com/2001/autos/0106/03/b01-231406.htm
Last week I had to replace a cracked windshield and went to a glass shop advertising, "pay no more than $150 deductible." My insurance has a $500 deductible and yet they only charged me $150. We discussed the $500 figure but they insisted that all I owed was $150. How can this be? Incidentally, they quoted a cash price of $589 which seems remarkably low.
dbain1
I just came back from a 755 mile trip. I manually calculated milege for one tank full in the middle of the trip, 424 miles @ 24.8 MPG. This was about 390 miles of highway driving at 75 - 80 with about 150 miles of it into a 30 MPH headwind and 35 miles of stop & go driving off the highway. I compared notes with someone what had just bought an Audi S4 turbo, he had looked at the LS but decided to stay with Audi. He reported about 16 MPG around town with his S4 and 24 MPG on the highway. Interestingly, he said his A8, that he just got rid of, to get the S4 got better gas milage than the S4!!
Trunk - is huge
Pickup - is not there at all
Interior - nice but there are some cheap buttons on top.
leather- looks cheap
sales person - seems desperate
I will lease another BMW 5 530i series.
Sorry folks, I gave it a shot. I looked at the LS with an open mind. The thing that keeps me with the BMW is the tourque.
I have to wonder if the U.S. products are as close to his heart as European vehicles.
Wondering if you gave the LS a fair chance. Of your five comments about your "test drive", only one actually involves driving the car, and that observation sounds like it could've been gleaned from a stoplight or two. I'm wondering how much of a test drive you took. Did you even drive it for more than 30 minutes? More than 50 miles? On varying roads (esp. ones with nice curves)? Did you have the salesperson with you while taking the test drive?
If you didn't test an LS8 Sport and drive it a decent amount of time & miles on winding roads, at high interstate speeds, etc. then not sure you got to see much of the LS's capabilities.
As regards "pickup", I can't believe that a 530i automatic is that much quicker than an LS8. And don't forget that Lincoln is aggressively subsidizing interest rates.
I did like the LS though but I am sticking with the BMW 5 series.
Sorry.
extended drive probably won't impress them given
that the BMW has a 51/49 weight distribution. I
also find it hard to believe that a 525iA could
compare to an LS8 for acceleration but a 530iA
beats an LS8 (as far as specks go). Keep in
mind that the 5-series is a smaller/lighter car
so it will accelerate better. Also, the rear
seat is cramped and the trunk is tiny, so the LS
trunk does indeed look huge. Is the BMW worth
the extra money... I can't justify it, but others
can.
But, to each his (or her) own. If we all liked the same thing we'd all still be driving Henry's Model A (black, of course). I'm glad you posted back here and told us what you decided on and why.
The LS and 530 are also two different cars. The 530 handling is phenomenal and the LS only slightly less so. Acceleration is comparable. For us, the 530 is a much more comfortable car to sit in and drive especially with the optional 16 way seats. It is also more quiet in the interior. The LS trunk is larger and rear seating is comparable. Overall, the 530 feels and drives like a more refined car than the LS. Is it worth the difference in cost?
Bought the 530 after we rationalized the cost differential. Not an easy decision.
As for acceleration figures for 528/530 automatics versus LS8, does anyone have any published results? LS8 in 7.2-7.5 sec range with top speed in Sport at about 140 mph.
And yes, BMW's 3.0 liter 6 cylinder engine in the 330 and 530 is a powerful, torquey engine. I tend to believe that BMW even underestimates their HP figures. These guys can make a motor. They get ~320hp from the naturally aspirated six cylinder in the current M3, AND its evenly spread across the entire rev band. Now thats technology and engineering.
With that said, still impressed with my 2000 LS V6 Sport Auto
Thanks for taking the time to test drive the LS and your feedback on why you chose BMW over Lincoln. I hope you consider revisiting Lincoln when it comes time to replace your 530!
Happy motoring,
BTW, can anybody tell me what a 530 prices out as? I've not had the time to check.
TIA,
Scooter
Auto Tranny
Heated front seats
Headlight washers
Gararge door opener
Power passenger seat
leather seats
auto day/night mirror
wood trim
rain-sensing wipers
pwr moon roof
lumbar support
automatic sun shade
xenon lamps
in dash CD
split rear seat
upgrade to comfort seats
heated steering wheel
cost is 43,770 and they are selling at $2 above cost or around $2k below MSRP.
Because of this I am leaning toward the 525iA which would $4k lower.
Thanks.
I ultimately chose the LS8 sport because I liked the exterior styling more, and the performance per dollar represented what I considered to be a significant advantage. To each his own . . . you bet! I'm just not interested in paying a premium for a car badge simply for its reputation and marketing hype as "the ultimate driving machine". The proof for the BMW was not in the drive.
Bottom line: no matter what the specs and stats are, you really have to go with your feel. GLeen - if you liked the 530 you are the one writing the check go for it! If I had my Apr '00 purchasing decision to do over, I probably would have seriously considered ponying up the extra bucks for the CLK. But then I didn't do a lot of shopping and really didn't know exactly what I wanted. Frankly, the Mercedes lot was a bit intimidating until I met the salesman that ultimately put us in the C240. All that being said, my '00 LS8 has been a decent value and I have not regretted owning one, with the exception of my initial dealership experience which has since been resolved.
Brian
Brian
While I didn't state this in my previous post, there are only one or two Audi or BMW dealerships in the Phoenix, Arizona metro area. Once you're outside Phoenix, good luck in finding service!
For all their faults, at least you can find a Ford dealer anywhere you're likely to drive.
My point about servicing for Lincoln is that you are not held "hostage" to a single (or at least limited) dealership. If I needed to, I could bring my LS in for service at virtually any Ford dealership, reglardless of where I am. Obviously, Ford's dealership network is FAR more extensive than any foreign competitor offers. Knock wood, I haven't yet had a car problem outside the Phoenix area, but if I did, I'd far more easily find service for a FoMoCo product than a foreign brand.
As has been pointed out by several people on this board, BMWs have their problems as well.
Re: maintenance costs: from what I hear the dealers are without mercy. But at least the first 36/36 is included free. May have to sell car after that...!
But if you're now looking at the 525 instead of the 530 you need to go back and retest the LS8. You may be subconsciously comparing the LS with the 530 performance wise, not the 525. If you still think the 525 is for you, great.
Personally I think the LS exterior and dimensions, Audi A6 interior with a BMW drivetrain would be almost perfect.
Pricewise, 528i/530i really compete with Jag S-type. These are $45-60K cars, esp. if heavily optioned. Mere fact we are discussing the $32-40K LS vis-a-vis great car like 5 Series shows what an exceptional value the LS, esp. LS6 manual and LS8 Sport, can be!!!
I say my comments about BMWs being one of the biggest, most vocal fans of their magnificent I-6 engines. (I couldn't imagine owning a V-8 BMW, unless it was a 540i 6-speed. Give me an I-6 M any day!!! If only I could afford...)
Invoice: 32,665 MSRP: 36,045
With all the added features one would want including auto cranny it comes out to 44 MSRP or about $42k price tag.
"For Clor, driving the Lincoln LS rarely failed to bring a smile, and driving it hard could even be gleeful. And despite its inherent shortfalls, the fact that it's not a BMW made it all the more satisfying."
What are the performance figures for the 525iA? Do you believe the 525iA has "pickup", but the LS8 doesn't? I'd be willing to bet that the LS8 Sport can outperform it in most acceleration and top speed measures. And with its 52/48 weight distribution, it is competitive in handling measures as well.
I thought the LS was nice but I would miss the instant response. Again I am only comparing automatic to automatic. The manual may be a different story but I doubt it.
What are the performance figures for the 525iA? Hope you stick with reality over perception when it comes to things like "pickup" and "instant response".
Don't think you ever did answer one of my initial questions. Please describe the test drive you took in the LS. (Was it an LS8 base or Sport?) How many minutes & miles, what type roads, with salesperson, over dealer's route? Have you taken a 525iA over same route? Hope you do.
Don't forget that Lincoln is about giving away '01 LS leases and heavily subsidizing financing. Great car, great price/value, great financing! Does 525iA get you all 3? Two? One?
Short of having the entire bumper fascia replaced and painted, any other ideas for hiding the damage? (and yes, driving lessons have already been suggested...)
530: 225 HP @ 5900 rpm / 214 ft-lbs. @ 3500 rpm
525: 184 HP @ 6000 rpm / 175 ft-lbs. @ 3500 rpm
It seems the 525 is giving up almost 100 ft-lbs of torque to the LS8. Hard to perceive it feeling "torqier" than an LS8.
I'm not one to advocate shopping for a car purely on spec.'s, but I don't think the 525 even comes close.
I think you may not have much of a choice other than living with it or replacing it. If it was only as deep as the clearcoat you would still end up buffing off the clearcoat to get it smooth and then need to put it back on. bumpers.com has the LS fascias for about $100.
Brian
When I bought my '00 LS8 Sport I did so on a lark. I had spent much of the day trying to buy a 323iA. But the price was too high for what you got. Left BMW dealer frustrated on a cold December Saturday afternoon. Saw a mega dealer two lots down. Selling Porsche, Audi, VW, Mazda, Mercury and Lincoln. Looked at an A4 auto. Wasn't impressed given its price. So while walkin' lot ran across a green LS8 Sport that my wife loved. It had all the options I wanted, the exact mix. Only then, in desperation & despair, did I test drive it. Like it much better than A4 or 323i. Talk about value for the money! Never did test drive and A6 or 525/528. Out of my price range for the options I'd want.
On the LS, leather is standard. To get a "like" equipped BMW, the 3-series cost $4-6k more and the 5-series $8-10k. WAY over my budget. Besides, there are about 8 BMW's in the parking lot at work (<150 cars at a time) and 1 other LS. My fellow LS owner doesn't get the car much so mine is really the only one. There are also 4 GS300's.
Sorry to hear about the disagreement you had with the wall.
While I have been using Mother's Wax, polish and cleaners on my black LS, I was quite interested in a commercial I saw for a new product by Turtle Wax called Color Cure. It is basically a colored wax (available in red, blue, white and black) and it also comes with a "lipstick" type crayon that you apply to deep scratches. The idea behind the colored wax is that it is supposed to get rid of light scratches and swirl marks. Yeah, I know, these things always work great on TV!
Well I decided to try it to get rid of some stone chips and much to my amazement, it really did do a fantastic job! Might be worth a shot on your car.
My only hope is that they continue to make the LS, and particularly the manual, for enough years to assure spare parts in the future. The bean counters have a way of erasing vehicles that don't "pay for themselves," which is why we're likely to never have a V8 manual.
One person's opinion.
Does anyone know what Lincoln is planning for the '02 LS? Navigation (GS) system? Xenon lights?? Please let me know - thanks!