The worst part is that on I-25 and I-70 (where I have gotten most of the rocks) they aren't even using gravel. They use that magnesium choloride stuff that looks oh so good on the black paint.
Maybe it is just a special vacuum vortex that is created on just my car. Not only is the windshield getting pelted, but the bumper, headlights, grille and hood all have some major chips in them.
I get contradictory information on the inclusion of the sport suspension in the LS premium package...the Lincoln website does not indicate that it is included, yet other websites, including Kelly BB say that it is included. I could have sworn that the Lincoln site said that it was included in the premium package a few weeks ago? Does anybody know for sure?
blacklion9, My dealer replaced my right rear brake lamp under warranty. Even though it was no cost, it was a hassle to have to make an appointment for a brake bulb. I believe the part number listed in the manual is not sold in stores either (has an "A" part number vs. a plain number in the store - don't remember).
Lincoln sent me a letter, dated 3/21/01, discussing the LS & Premium Package. Along with the letter was a 4-page full color brochure just on "The 2001 Lincoln LS Premium Package". In a footnote, the brochure states:
"The Lincoln LS Premium Package is not available with the Sport Package."
Guess it makes some sense. The Premium Package does include "17-inch chrome aluminum wheels" and the "12-speaker Alpine Audiophile system with in-dash 6-disc CD changer". Wonder if that will be true for '02s?
While I know that you can not get the premium package with the sports package, you get the sport suspension as part on the premium package. I do not think that you get the SST transmission, but both packages list a Euro Sport Suspension.
Thanks for your response. You are highlighting the discrepency that the Lincoln website does NOT include the sport suspension as being part of the premium package any more, yet the Edmunds and KBB sites DO say that it is included. As I stated, I believe that the Lincoln site used to state that the sport suspension was, indeed, part of the premium package. I guess I am wondering if this is a change and that the premium package has been downgraded in the past month of so.
The most recent version of the LS dealer information sheet (dated March 3) has the following description for the Premium Package suspension:
Precision handling tuned shocks, sport tuned steering calibration and performance brake linings.
This is the exact same description used for the Sport Package suspension; I don't know if they're exactly the same mechanically, but it certainly appears that they are. It wouldn't make sense to me that there would be a third suspension calibration avaiable or that they'd use the non-Sport settings with the chrome Sport wheels. This is speculation on my part, but they usually document running changes.
On the other hand, the literature doesn't indicate that an all-charcoal interior is available with the Premium package (both interior colors are supposed to be tutone), but I've seen one.
Packv12 is correct; the SST shifter is definitely NOT part of the Premium package. Premium also has the bright bumper strips, rather than the body-colored Sport bumper caps.
First mileage check was 22.3 miles per gallon on an LS 6 auto with 600 miles. Not bad. This was 50% in town and the rest at 60 to 80 mph. It this gets even better, it will be great.a
I see what you mean about the Ford site, it seems to provide less information than it had previously. Every thing I have read (outside of Ford's site) leads me to believe that the "Sports Suspension" is part of the Premium Package. I have to agree with Johnnylinc that it's is doubtful that they offer too many tuned suspensions. I also agree that the 17" chrome wheels probably need the sport suspension. His data is latest publicly available, so I don't doubt it accuracy.
I see this as more of an issue with Ford once again revamping their web site. I guess that I can look forward to getting lost in my first attempt to locate the owner's connection!
Both Edmund's and Kelly do a pretty good job keeping track of availability of option, but I think that Edmund's is a bit better in their research. You should have been here for the heady days when the Audiophile system with glove box mounted CD changer got the axe in the Sport Model, Edmund's pointed out that information rather quickly.
Haven't posted for a while (2000 LSV8 sport) but noticed Brunobus post and had to log in-
- took a gravel hit (passing truck last fall) when the spreading cracks got long enough I got it replaced in March.( less than $500, don't use the Ford OE glass it about twicw s much).
- 6 weeks later, another peice of gravel found me and I've got another crack.
- Another rep for our company with an LS has replaced a windsheild already.
- Guy at place that replaced my first one mentioned a process that can repair a crack area smaller than a dollar bill for about $60.
I've driven about 40K a year for the last 12 years anf this is the first (and second )winsheilds I've ever had to replace.
A combination of Glass properties,airflow and or windsheild angle?
Also, asked dealer for the Tranny reprogram at 30k service, they did it - reponsiveness improved and highway mileage jumped 2mpg.
I don't think they do it unless asked, but it is worth asking for.
Have any of you upgraded the components of the Alpine Audiophile system? Any recommendations? I haven't taken the door apart to look at the quality of the factory two-way speakers.
I've updated the How-To section of LLSOC with stanny1's documentation of his speaker upgrade operation that he did on all four speakers. He put together a great blow-by-blow pictorial.
5/28/01 issue of AutoWeek, p. 4, reporting that the '02 Acura 3.2CL Coupe will get a 6-speed manual this fall; however, the 3.2TL Sedan won't. Honda reportedly mulling it over in the sedan for '03, "if demand is there" as "it wouldn't require major engineering work".
Maybe if you drove thousands of continuous highway miles you might notice a tiny difference, since most people can't maintain perfectly steady speed/throttle control. Think we're splitting hairs here. Compared to my previous cars, the LS is extra smooth under cruise control, downshifts less often and "resumes" speed without heavy throttle application.
Speaking of mileage, I just returned from my first long trip with the LS. Just over 2700 miles of interstate, mountain road, and national park driving. Overall actual mileage was 24.43, the computer's readings averaged 24.66. Always over 26 mpg on the interstate, best single tank was 26.84. Cruise set at 80-82, AC on practically all the time, and lots of hills, even on the interstate.
And what a ride! We talk about handling here a lot, and rightly so, but this is a superb cruising machine. Last Sunday I drove from Phoenix to Greeley, Colo., 985 miles with only the minimum pit stops. Even got to deal with the Late May Blizzard of '01 that hit the Denver area. Arrived home tired of sitting in one spot, but that's all. And it was still a pleasure to slide behind the wheel the next day.
Let's see, St. Louis isn't quite that far and there shouldn't be snow in July, so getting to LS Mania 2 will be a piece of cake.
I saw that someone had the LS dealers manuals for sale in Ebay. I bid but did not get one. Later the person selling them sent me an email and said the the 2000 and the 2001 were available along with the system disc for 33$ which includes shipping. You actully get the Ford system disc plus the manual for two other Ford products of your choice. I received them this week and they are amazing. The system disc is dated April, 2001 and lists all the recalls and other complaints owners have had with the LS and what the fix is. The manual disc has it all. Full wiring diagrams, assembly directions for the entire car, etc. Best $33 I ever spent. If interested here is the source: John D Muller 338 Hyspot Road Greenfield Center, NY 12833 His email is:John Muller [jmuller@nycap.rr.com] I was pleased and amazed at these CDs. Check it out if you are interested in having this information.
Have read vibration complaints on this page and have added my own over the last couple of months. I started at the Lincoln dealership and was sent to Freestone. After a tire rotation, five tire balancing sessions, tires off and remounted, rotating tires on the rims, rims spun without tires, a second Freestone dealership, two new Freestone tires, my vibration was no better. Back to Lincoln. This time the service manager called Lincoln engineering who said they had experienced vibration complaints. Of course they pointed at tires first. Luckily I had a service manager who insisted drive shaft, rear axle, or even front wheel bearing were to blame. He re balanced my tires, took four tires and rims off an LS on the lot and the vibration was still there. He used a Reed Etch instrument that measures the frequency of the vibration. He then called engineering with that frequency and they pointed at drive shaft, but reluctantly. Apparently the drive shafts and rear half shaft are balanced to the car somehow, because he couldn't pull drive shaft from another car to test. My drive shaft had two colored balancing weights on it which seemed to confuse all of them. Lincoln engineering had him remove those two weights from the driveshaft and test drive again. The vibration is GONE!!! I haven't driven the car as far as I want to yet, but I could feel the vibes starting at 40 mph and getting very noticeable at 72-73mph to the point of the rear view mirror shaking. I hadn't seen this solution mentioned here, hope it helps. I am guardedly giddy......
I didn't have great luck touching-up a scratch using the LM supplied bottle. Now I know it's more complicated - it's a three-part system for colors like Tri-color Pearl. Take your browser over to www.paintscratch.com and you'll see the best touch-up paint I can find.
I just returned from my trip from Diego to Vegas. Most of the trip was spent cruising at about 80. I did have plenty of oppty's to sprint through congestion and love the acceleration. The car is smooth as always and I think it is starting to break in with 2400miles on it. Feels a little more responsive now. Averaged 23mpg on the highway cruises.
Have one complaint, but not related to the LS. On the drive back, a piece of truck tire came flying from under the car in front of me, rattled up under my car and the one behind me. Well, net effect was it ripped the plastic covering under the front of the engine/radiator half off. My baby has been damaged, but only cosmetic. Guess I will wait until the first service interval to get it repaired.
There are 16 days left before the registration deadline for Mania 2 in St. Louis occurs. The hotels will only hold the rooms at the rates we were quoted until June 12. Once this date passes the hotels are free to release the rooms.
June 12th is also the date when I have to make the decision if Mania 2 is going to happen at all. So far I have received only 5 confirmed reservations, with another 10 indicating that they are planning on attending. That makes 15 people only. While the event is on July 12-14, I have to send out deposits for the event by June 12.
The feedback from the people who are planning indicates that the fee is not unreasonable. To rent out Gateway Raceway for two days and have the SCCA professional driving instructors and track workers for the two days is around $30,000. We planned to cover the cost of the event by having a 100 participants in the school.
We are providing the lunches at the track on both days, along with a welcome reception on Thu. night and a banquet on Fri. night. There are quite a few of the Lincoln folks that are planning on being there, but only if there is enough participation.
Bottom line: If you are planning on attending sign up and let me know and reserve your room. If we don't have at least 50 people by June 12th, LLSOC will be forced to cancel the event and we won't have a national event at all this year.
There is an awful lot of work that is going into this to make it every bit as good as Mania 1 and better. Where else will you be able to drive on a professional road course taught by professional SCCA instructors, while enjoying the company of other LS owners?
I know there are some weekend racers in our group here, but for those who aren't, and have no interest in becoming one, listen up: A professional driving school is an experience not to be missed, even if you never set foot on a track again. I just returned from a three-day course at the Bob Bondurant school in Phoenix, where I learned skills and even habits that are absolutely relevant to daily driving, and had the most fun I've ever had as a "grownup". I don't plan on taking up racing but it was one of the best expenditures of time & money I've ever made. All the concerns and apprehensions I had going in were completely groundless. And BTW, the Bondurant School cost ten times what we're paying for Mania 2. (I even had to buy my own lunch.) Here's a chance to play with our cars in a controlled, safe environment, and to experience what they (and we) are capable of in extreme situations, with professional instruction. Did I mention it's also a lot of fun?
(My apologies to those who've read my posts on the LLSOC board. I still get pumped up & carried away every time I start thinking about this.)
I missed Mania 1 and have kicked my own butt for it all year. Won't make that mistake again.
Scott (stepping off the soapbox, putting down the megaphone)
Being a pariah I wasn't planning on attending; however, certainly don't want to see it fail. Got me wondering if you are aggressively alerting other potential attendees at different threads. Every now and then I check out the following two sites:
www.lincolnls.com www.lincolnsonline.com
Both have message board/forum. Can't say I remember seeing anything on either recently about Mania 2.
Yes there will be. I'm hoping to have at least 2 vehicles from Lincoln there for people who are flying in. If we need additional cars I will try to get some more. At the very least people can also use my car, since it is the project car.
Good idea giowa! I forgot to post info. on those two sites.
Any additional suggestions on things to do that would help convince people that this would be a worthwhile event to attend would be most appreciated!
Anyone been driving much on ethanol? With the rise in fuel prices I've switched to 90 octane ethanol. (I avoid the 89 or 89.5 octane ethanol.) Costs same as 87 octane regular. Is about 18-23 cents cheaper per gallon than the 91 or 92 octane in greater Omaha area. So far over the past month I haven't noticed anything different in terms of acceleration, engine performance, fuel economy, or driveability. Guessing I'll be using ethanol for at least the rest of the summer.
I can't believe that a car enthusiast such as you would pass up a chance like Mania 2, particularly with the chance to drive a road course after getting some instruction, pointers, et.al. And, you can drive to the site quite easily. Of course if you show up in your '96 Impala all bets are off.
1. ls1bmw0: Some possible ideas for LLSOC... In Saturday's mail I received more membership material from the Impala SS Club of America (ISSCA), which formed last year and started publishing their bi-monthly magazine just a couple months ago. Members like me are now receiving orr window decal, with the club's logo, and a laminated membership card attached to an ISSCA lanyard. Card has info about the club on it. They ask us to wear it to car events so we'll have info about the club at the ready (hanging around our necks on the lanyard). Benefits discussed include apparel, an affiliate membership in SEMA, insurance, and contact with parts manufacturers.
2. desertguy: Doubt I can convince the FBI to allow me into the Federal Witness Protection program in order to go to Mania 2. Being incognito is only way I'd likely be able to get out alive. And I'd probably blow my cover, kind of like Sammy "the Bull" did. I'd say something like "But what proof do you have for your gizmo purporting to get 50 mpg from a half tank of water?" Then the gig would be up! Odd you mentioned my SS. Took her to Kansas City with family and an extra kid for a short trip this weekend. Beauty of this beast includes her roominess inside and in trunk, she runs on regular unleaded, and gets about 25 mpg on interstate at 75 mph. That is what the Merc Marauder folks are looking forward to (and maybe towing capabilities).
The LLSOC membership packages will be sent out as soon as the window decals get done, which should be about 2-3 weeks.
Here's what members get: 1. Inside and outside mount window decal. Will be clear background with a etched glass look to the logo. 2. Embroidered cap with the logo. Dark gray for Charter members with Charter Member as part of the embroidery. Black caps for regular members. 3. Thank you letter for everyone who has graciously supported LLSOC through your membership and kind words. 4. Plastic Membership card (I looked at laminated ones and these are much better) with your name and barcoded membership number. We will use the barcode to register people at Mania as well as the card will be used for future member discounts at dealers, etc. 5. The first issue of the quarterly magazine is in the final stages of tweaking. I didn't have enough substance to release it yet. But I'm hoping that by the end of June that it will be released. Hopefully everyone will enjoy at least one article in it
P.S. giowa, speaking for myself, I would enjoy meeting you at Mania. I don't think you need to worry about being a pariah at the event. Everyone who owns a LS is equal in my book. Buy you a double martini if you show
In the Denver vicinity, we are subject to emissions inspections and the required use of "oxygenated" fuel during winter months. Now that MTBE has fallen out of favor, we use a blend of gasoline and ethanol (don't know the percentages). Other than a slight decline in fuel economy, I've never noticed any difference. I grew up in Lincoln, and remember the early days of "gasohol", which was 10% ethanol. I think the State of Nebraska was using it in their vehicles as early as 1975 or so, including State Patrol cars. The people who promoted it claimed it satisfied the octane requirements of high-compression engines. Around 1980 I had a older BMW 2002 that was running about 11:1 compression and needed real live premium gas, hard to find and expensive. Ran regular gasohol on visits back home and it ran great, without pinging.
Hey, giowa, a REAL pariah would show up in his LS with the ISSCA sticker in the window. So, leave the sticker in the Impala and just show up. If you bring the Chevy, we'll make you autocross it. That'll show ya
I recently test drove a used 2000 LS6 with the automatic transmission. The car was very clean with only 12,000 miles, and offered the possibility of getting a fine car at a reduced cost.
The only thing I did not like was the odd behavior of the engine and transmission. When trying to accelerate for entrance ramps or lane changes, the car responded hardly at all. As I pressed the gas down further trying to get it going, it suddenly shifted WAY DOWN and spun the engine up, and then accelerated fairly well. This felt like an old Tempo rental car, and certainly not what I would expect from a such an otherwise refined car. I have recently driven Acuras and Avalons with about the same weight and rated horsepower and their engines were much more responsive, although the rest of the LS is superior in my opinion.
In these posts, I have seen mention of the "transmission reflash". I doubt if the car I drove had been reflashed. What effect does the reflash have on the V6 acceleration?
After 7 visits to the dealer for oil leak, etc. the eighth is now going to take the tranny apart and put on a new casing as they (FoMoCo) believes it is pourous. Tried to get a new tranny but they said it was better to replace the casing.
Mark, what is involved in replacing the tranny casing? Should I be concerned about tranny operation after this casng replacement? Will I need to get the tranny TSB again as the tranny was working fine after the lastest TSB reflash?
So now waiting another week for this work, after it took one week for them to decide on replacing the casing. This now adds up to more than 8 weeks my 00 LS8 Sport has been in the shop.
The latest reflash (scroll back through a few dozen posts for the actual TSB number) helps the transmission a LOT. The 210hp in the V6 is more than adequate for most. Depends mainly on what you are used to. Are you used to driving V8's? Then you might want to check out the V8. Are you coming from a 4 cylinder car, or maybe a smaller 6 cylinder engined car? Then the LS V6 will suit you absolutely fine...
Regarding the reflash, check the number, and ask your dealer to check the car. The software reflash costs the dealer little or nothing, and they should be happy to do it if they know it might sell the car. Have had my 2000 LS V6 Sport/Auto for 33,000 miles and have no regrets whatsoever. Had it up to 120 briefly today on I-95 and it was solid, with strong acceleration
Changing the transmission case means the transmission is removed from the car, torn down, and built up with a new case. Any competent transmission tech can do this.
You will not need to have the TSB done again. The reflash is on the Powertrain Control Module which is separate fromt the transmission. It will retain the programming.
I had the same experience you did when I test drove the LS6 for the first time. My first impression was that this thing couldn't get out of its own way. I later realized that the small amount of throttle I was giving it only produced a downshift one gear, or maybe even only just unlocked the TCC. As you found, this produces very modest acceleration. Don't be afraid to get on it. It will wind up to 6500 RPM before you know it. You won't hurt anything. Upshifts are controlled electronically.
The V6 does accelerate quite well from a roll. However, as ronniepooh states, if you're looking for more, try the V8. I'm satisfied with my V6 Sport. Could it use more power? Sure, but the overall driving experience so great that I don't even notice it. After 17 months of ownership, I'm still looking for excuses to drive it and I'm still frequently way over the speed limit, V6 or not.
Obviously, I don't know what the asking price of the car you're looking at is, but a recent dealer ad in my area had a '00 Sport V8, 15K miles, with all options for 29K. I'm sure there's plenty of wiggle room on the price here.
The Acura and Avalon might have more straight-line acceleration, but both are FWD cars and can't hold a candle to the LS in handling, especially the Avalon. Different target market.
Ask them to see the service history on your car. This shouldn't be a problem. Just make sure it wasn't a daily rental or loaner.
Let us know what you decide. Good luck. I hope you become a member of the "LS family."
Just asking a general question to all of you LS owners. In the market for a car;looking to upgrade from the mid-size territory. Would you recommend the LS? Seems to me from scanning these posts that the car has some issues, but then again I know zero about cars anyway.
We know mileage varies depending on terrain, driving habits and traffic patterns. Some on this board report better mileage than I get and some report worse. However, we had an interesting experience this weekend during our 580 mile round-trip from Minneapolis to southern Iowa.
I have made this trip many times. It is 95% interstate cruising at 70-75 MPH - about 2500 RPM with the 3.58 gear. I usually get mileage in the high 23's to low 24's. This time, though, after the first 100 miles, the computer was showing 26.9. By the time we arrived in Iowa, it was showing 27.4! Thinking the computer was out of whack, I filled up and checked it manually - 27.26! On the return trip to Minneapolis, running around 80 MPH, the mileage was 26.9. Overall, this is about 3 MPG better than I have ever gotten before.
I have only made one change to the car since our last trip - swapping the tires. They are the same size and the odometer showed exactly the same miles for the trip that it always has so there is no speedometer error.
I am not a Firestone basher nor am I a Michelin advocate. It is not logical that the Michelins would have enough lower rolling resistance to make a 3 MPG difference, but I am at a loss to explain this sudden huge gain.
I moved up from a '96 Sable. Well, actually, we still have the Sable, but the LS is SOOOOOOO much more fun to drive. The "issues" of which you speak shouldn't be a concern. All (I believe) were taken care of by the warranty. We are also a very small representation of total LS sales. We also have the extreme fortune to have the ear of Lincoln management on this board!
This car is still a mid-size. It is shorter than our Sable and only seats 4 adults. The driveshaft tunnel makes the middle of the back seat "comfortable" only for short-legged kids. The trunk is a little smaller, but looks like it has more useable space. With the donut spare there is lots of room under the trunk floor for little things. All of the things "wrong" with the car to me are just nit-picking stuff anyway.
I would recommend the LS without hesitation. It is refined yet sporty. It wants to run every time you turn the key. Staying at the speed limit is a challange! I find myself hitting triple digits getting on the freeway! That's not too hard with everyone else doing 80+, but I digress. If you want a Lexus smooth, quiet, isolated ride, this car isn't for you. If you like to DRIVE, you'll find this car quite satisfying. Don't let a test drive fool you. This car needs quite a few thousand miles to loosen-up. It feels very slow and unwilling right away. The RPM's don't want to climb. Once the engine breaks-in the RPM's climb and before you know it, you're at the rev limiter! I'm already planning my next one and we will be a 2 LS family!
I agree Buy the V8 Sport or the V6 Manual.. You can't go wrong. The LS Townhall is also known as the nit-pickers hall! Just kidding but seriously buy it! And don't forget Lincoln Has great incentives right now..
Brucelinc - I too have noticed some variability in mileage readings when doing the same driving regimen (same roads, same speeds, same loads). This is most noticeable when doing the almost mindless extended "interstate-highway cruising." I have, at times, been "disappointed" in seeing only 23-24 mpgs between Phoenix and Tucson (straight, flat, 2 lane on I-10) particularly when I have observed 27+ mpgs on other occasions. Ambient temperatures, and the use of A/C are significant contributors to mileage deviations. However, I think the variability in fuel quality and formulations that change from season to season, and whether your fuel load came from the bottom of the gas stations tanks (higher concentrations of contaminants) have the greatest influence on your mileage. I'm of the opinion that fuel quality can vary quite a bit, particularly when your area requires different formulations depending upon the time of year. I use 91 octane Chevron exclusively, and I try to use the same pump, at the same station for fill-ups to reduce some variability. I agree though, a change in more than 3 mpg in this type of driving is significant enough to make you wonder what caused the difference.
Thanks for your comments lolaj42. Your points make sense. The conditions were perfect for this trip - cool, so no A/C was needed and calm winds. I can't wait to take another trip and see if I can duplicate the 27, though. Prior to this weekend, I would have said the only way I could get 27 MPG would be if the road was all downhill. (or maybe if I was drafting Giowa's Impala) :-)
I agree with your post, and want to add to your statement:
"If you want a Lexus smooth, quiet, isolated ride, this car isn't for you."
I think this could be misleading. My 2000 LS V8 non-sport IS definitely in the smooth, quiet category. Maybe not quite Lexus, but 80 MPH cruising is deceptively smooth & quiet ... to the point that all four occupants can converse in normal tones, as though the car is parked.
Ditto what's been said above. I would recommend the LS without reservation, unless a soft, cushy ride is very important to you, or you regularly carry three adults in the back seat. Problems have been aired here, but if you lurk around other brands' boards, you'll find complaints there as well. And they probably don't have the terrific manufacturers' support we get from Lincoln. So go out and drive a whole bunch of cars. If you can find a better blend of luxury and performance than the LS at a comparable price, please post back here and let us know what it is.
Just a note when you do the compare of the LS to other vehicles make sure that you compare rear-wheel drive platforms to rear-wheel drive platforms. The LS han no torque steer that front wheel drive vehicles are famous for. Therefore the LS has balanced handling under heavy acceleration and better controlled braking. Lincoln marketing points out that the "LS is a car that has to be driven to be appreciated" and they are right! Make sure that your test drive includes different road conditions (rough roads,twisty roads and highway). The near 50/50 weight distribution plus the anti-squat/lift suspension makes the handling so great. Enjoy the test drive!
I originally "trained" my transmission per Mark's instructions nearly a year ago and it was fine. Recently, however, it seemed to be "unlearning" and the engagements were getting lazy so I had the TSB done yesterday. The engagements are now perfect! Thanks, Mark!
I had no complaints about manual downshift quality so that is fine, too. What really surprised me was the much crisper manual upshifts. I don't recall upshift quality being mentioned in the summary of the TSB that I read, but the improvement is obvious. The 1-2 and 2-3 manual shifts at WOT gives a very pleasing lunge that is much stronger than before. I can't help but wonder if 0-60 and quarter mile times wouldn't be slightly improved.
My questions: Was the TSB intended to improve upshift quality or is that just a pleasant side-effect? Also, this morning when I started the engine (about 50 degrees outside temp) the engine quickly settled into a normal nice idle. It didn't run at 1500 RPM like it usually does. Did the TSB impact engine calibration or was the low idle just a result of the warmer (by Minneapolis standards) temperature? Or was it some strange fluke?
I swear everything about this car pleases me more every time I drive it!
I'm glad you like it. A lot of effort went into that update, both from my area (transmission) and from the engine calibration people.
The TSB installs the 2001 calibration into the 2000 cars. There were many, many improvements that went into it both from engine and transmission. The TSB just mentions the areas that we had complaints so that the dealers know how to resolve those complaints. The TSB does not have a comprehensive list of all the improvements.
"There were many, many improvements that went into it both from engine and transmission. The TSB just mentions the areas that we had complaints so that the dealers know how to resolve those complaints. The TSB does not have a comprehensive list of all the improvements"
begs the question . . . can a comprehensive list of all the improvements be made available?
Mark, thank you for your quick response. Also, congratulations on a fine piece of work.
My dealer put a very hard sell on me to have the transmission fluid changed at 30,000 miles. I do not meet the severe service as outlined in the owners manual. My dealer says "Driving in the Twin Cities IS severe service."
Has anyone else been encouraged to do this? Any opinions? Thanks.
I agree with you on everything you said. Especially the 1-2 2-3 shift. I have had a 2001 loaner LS on multiple occasions and man.... Engages almost seamlessly and with authoritii...Big difference from my 2000 which still needs the TSB. The 1-2,2-3 Sounds like boxing ( give em the old 1-2). Anyways the new 1-2, 2-3 combo is a knockout... As well as the removal of the reverse delay. Keeps you from getting hit off guard
Comments
Maybe it is just a special vacuum vortex that is created on just my car. Not only is the windshield getting pelted, but the bumper, headlights, grille and hood all have some major chips in them.
Consider yourself lucky Scott.
Bruno
Thanks!
"The Lincoln LS Premium Package is not available with the Sport Package."
Guess it makes some sense. The Premium Package does include "17-inch chrome aluminum wheels" and the "12-speaker Alpine Audiophile system with in-dash 6-disc CD changer". Wonder if that will be true for '02s?
Precision handling tuned shocks, sport tuned steering calibration and performance brake linings.
This is the exact same description used for the Sport Package suspension; I don't know if they're exactly the same mechanically, but it certainly appears that they are. It wouldn't make sense to me that there would be a third suspension calibration avaiable or that they'd use the non-Sport settings with the chrome Sport wheels. This is speculation on my part, but they usually document running changes.
On the other hand, the literature doesn't indicate that an all-charcoal interior is available with the Premium package (both interior colors are supposed to be tutone), but I've seen one.
Packv12 is correct; the SST shifter is definitely NOT part of the Premium package. Premium also has the bright bumper strips, rather than the body-colored Sport bumper caps.
I see this as more of an issue with Ford once again revamping their web site. I guess that I can look forward to getting lost in my first attempt to locate the owner's connection!
Both Edmund's and Kelly do a pretty good job keeping track of availability of option, but I think that Edmund's is a bit better in their research. You should have been here for the heady days when the Audiophile system with glove box mounted CD changer got the axe in the Sport Model, Edmund's pointed out that information rather quickly.
- took a gravel hit (passing truck last fall) when the spreading cracks got long enough I got it replaced in March.( less than $500, don't use the Ford OE glass it about twicw s much).
- 6 weeks later, another peice of gravel found me and I've got another crack.
- Another rep for our company with an LS has replaced a windsheild already.
- Guy at place that replaced my first one mentioned a process that can repair a crack area smaller than a dollar bill for about $60.
I've driven about 40K a year for the last 12 years anf this is the first (and second )winsheilds I've ever had to replace.
A combination of Glass properties,airflow and or windsheild angle?
Also, asked dealer for the Tranny reprogram at 30k service, they did it - reponsiveness improved and highway mileage jumped 2mpg.
I don't think they do it unless asked, but it is worth asking for.
Brian
Speaking of mileage, I just returned from my first long trip with the LS. Just over 2700 miles of interstate, mountain road, and national park driving. Overall actual mileage was 24.43, the computer's readings averaged 24.66. Always over 26 mpg on the interstate, best single tank was 26.84. Cruise set at 80-82, AC on practically all the time, and lots of hills, even on the interstate.
And what a ride! We talk about handling here a lot, and rightly so, but this is a superb cruising machine. Last Sunday I drove from Phoenix to Greeley, Colo., 985 miles with only the minimum pit stops. Even got to deal with the Late May Blizzard of '01 that hit the Denver area. Arrived home tired of sitting in one spot, but that's all. And it was still a pleasure to slide behind the wheel the next day.
Let's see, St. Louis isn't quite that far and there shouldn't be snow in July, so getting to LS Mania 2 will be a piece of cake.
Best $33 I ever spent. If interested here is the source: John D Muller
338 Hyspot Road
Greenfield Center, NY 12833
His email is:John Muller [jmuller@nycap.rr.com]
I was pleased and amazed at these CDs. Check it out if you are interested in having this information.
I am guardedly giddy......
Have one complaint, but not related to the LS. On the drive back, a piece of truck tire came flying from under the car in front of me, rattled up under my car and the one behind me. Well, net effect was it ripped the plastic covering under the front of the engine/radiator half off. My baby has been damaged, but only cosmetic. Guess I will wait until the first service interval to get it repaired.
There are 16 days left before the registration deadline for Mania 2 in St. Louis occurs. The hotels will only hold the rooms at the rates we were quoted until June 12. Once this date passes the hotels are free to release the rooms.
June 12th is also the date when I have to make the decision if Mania 2 is going to happen at all. So far I have received only 5 confirmed reservations, with another 10 indicating that they are planning on attending. That makes 15 people only. While the event is on July 12-14, I have to send out deposits for the event by June 12.
The feedback from the people who are planning indicates that the fee is not unreasonable. To rent out Gateway Raceway for two days and have the SCCA professional driving instructors and track workers for the two days is around $30,000. We planned to cover the cost of the event by having a 100 participants in the school.
We are providing the lunches at the track on both days, along with a welcome reception on Thu. night and a banquet on Fri. night. There are quite a few of the Lincoln folks that are planning on being there, but only if there is enough participation.
Bottom line: If you are planning on attending sign up and let me know and reserve your room. If we don't have at least 50 people by June 12th, LLSOC will be forced to cancel the event and we won't have a national event at all this year.
There is an awful lot of work that is going into this to make it every bit as good as Mania 1 and better. Where else will you be able to drive on a professional road course taught by professional SCCA instructors, while enjoying the company of other LS owners?
LLSOC hopes to hear from more of you soon.
All the concerns and apprehensions I had going in were completely groundless. And BTW, the Bondurant School cost ten times what we're paying for Mania 2. (I even had to buy my own lunch.) Here's a chance to play with our cars in a controlled, safe environment, and to experience what they (and we) are capable of in extreme situations, with professional instruction. Did I mention it's also a lot of fun?
(My apologies to those who've read my posts on the LLSOC board. I still get pumped up & carried away every time I start thinking about this.)
I missed Mania 1 and have kicked my own butt for it all year. Won't make that mistake again.
Scott (stepping off the soapbox, putting down the megaphone)
www.lincolnls.com
www.lincolnsonline.com
Both have message board/forum. Can't say I remember seeing anything on either recently about Mania 2.
Good idea giowa! I forgot to post info. on those two sites.
Any additional suggestions on things to do that would help convince people that this would be a worthwhile event to attend would be most appreciated!
Brian
2. desertguy: Doubt I can convince the FBI to allow me into the Federal Witness Protection program in order to go to Mania 2. Being incognito is only way I'd likely be able to get out alive. And I'd probably blow my cover, kind of like Sammy "the Bull" did. I'd say something like "But what proof do you have for your gizmo purporting to get 50 mpg from a half tank of water?" Then the gig would be up! Odd you mentioned my SS. Took her to Kansas City with family and an extra kid for a short trip this weekend. Beauty of this beast includes her roominess inside and in trunk, she runs on regular unleaded, and gets about 25 mpg on interstate at 75 mph. That is what the Merc Marauder folks are looking forward to (and maybe towing capabilities).
The LLSOC membership packages will be sent out as soon as the window decals get done, which should be about 2-3 weeks.
Here's what members get:
1. Inside and outside mount window decal. Will be clear background with a etched glass look to the logo.
2. Embroidered cap with the logo. Dark gray for Charter members with Charter Member as part of the embroidery. Black caps for regular members.
3. Thank you letter for everyone who has graciously supported LLSOC through your membership and kind words.
4. Plastic Membership card (I looked at laminated ones and these are much better) with your name and barcoded membership number. We will use the barcode to register people at Mania as well as the card will be used for future member discounts at dealers, etc.
5. The first issue of the quarterly magazine is in the final stages of tweaking. I didn't have enough substance to release it yet. But I'm hoping that by the end of June that it will be released. Hopefully everyone will enjoy at least one article in it
P.S. giowa, speaking for myself, I would enjoy meeting you at Mania. I don't think you need to worry about being a pariah at the event. Everyone who owns a LS is equal in my book. Buy you a double martini if you show
Brian
Brian
Hey, giowa, a REAL pariah would show up in his LS with the ISSCA sticker in the window. So, leave the sticker in the Impala and just show up. If you bring the Chevy, we'll make you autocross it. That'll show ya
Scott
The only thing I did not like was the odd behavior of the engine and transmission. When trying to accelerate for entrance ramps or lane changes, the car responded hardly at all. As I pressed the gas down further trying to get it going, it suddenly shifted WAY DOWN and spun the engine up, and then accelerated fairly well. This felt like an old Tempo rental car, and certainly not what I would expect from a such an otherwise refined car. I have recently driven Acuras and Avalons with about the same weight and rated horsepower and their engines were much more responsive, although the rest of the LS is superior in my opinion.
In these posts, I have seen mention of the "transmission reflash". I doubt if the car I drove had been reflashed. What effect does the reflash have on the V6 acceleration?
Thanks for your help.
Mark, what is involved in replacing the tranny casing? Should I be concerned about tranny operation after this casng replacement? Will I need to get the tranny TSB again as the tranny was working fine after the lastest TSB reflash?
So now waiting another week for this work, after it took one week for them to decide on replacing the casing. This now adds up to more than 8 weeks my 00 LS8 Sport has been in the shop.
Regarding the reflash, check the number, and ask your dealer to check the car. The software reflash costs the dealer little or nothing, and they should be happy to do it if they know it might sell the car. Have had my 2000 LS V6 Sport/Auto for 33,000 miles and have no regrets whatsoever. Had it up to 120 briefly today on I-95 and it was solid, with strong acceleration
You will not need to have the TSB done again. The reflash is on the Powertrain Control Module which is separate fromt the transmission. It will retain the programming.
the LS6 for the first time. My first impression was that this thing couldn't get out of its own way. I later realized that the small amount of throttle I was giving it only produced a downshift one gear, or maybe even only just unlocked the TCC. As you found, this produces very modest acceleration. Don't be afraid to get on it. It will wind up to 6500 RPM before you know it. You won't hurt anything. Upshifts are controlled electronically.
The V6 does accelerate quite well from a roll. However, as ronniepooh states, if you're looking for more, try the V8. I'm satisfied with my V6 Sport. Could it use more power? Sure, but the overall driving experience so great that I don't even notice it. After 17 months of ownership, I'm still looking for excuses to drive it and I'm still frequently way over the speed limit, V6 or not.
Obviously, I don't know what the asking price of the car you're looking at is, but a recent dealer ad in my area had a '00 Sport V8, 15K miles, with all options for 29K. I'm sure there's plenty of wiggle room on the price here.
The Acura and Avalon might have more straight-line acceleration, but both are FWD cars and can't hold a candle to the LS in handling, especially the Avalon. Different target market.
Ask them to see the service history on your car. This shouldn't be a problem. Just make sure it wasn't a daily rental or loaner.
Let us know what you decide. Good luck. I hope you become a member of the "LS family."
Please advise on pros/cons.
Thanks much
I have made this trip many times. It is 95% interstate cruising at 70-75 MPH - about 2500 RPM with the 3.58 gear. I usually get mileage in the high 23's to low 24's. This time, though, after the first 100 miles, the computer was showing 26.9. By the time we arrived in Iowa, it was showing 27.4! Thinking the computer was out of whack, I filled up and checked it manually - 27.26! On the return trip to Minneapolis, running around 80 MPH, the mileage was 26.9. Overall, this is about 3 MPG better than I have ever gotten before.
I have only made one change to the car since our last trip - swapping the tires. They are the same size and the odometer showed exactly the same miles for the trip that it always has so there is no speedometer error.
I am not a Firestone basher nor am I a Michelin advocate. It is not logical that the Michelins would have enough lower rolling resistance to make a 3 MPG difference, but I am at a loss to explain this sudden huge gain.
This car is still a mid-size. It is shorter than our Sable and only seats 4 adults. The driveshaft tunnel makes the middle of the back seat "comfortable" only for short-legged kids. The trunk is a little smaller, but looks like it has more useable space. With the donut spare there is lots of room under the trunk floor for little things. All of the things "wrong" with the car to me are just nit-picking stuff anyway.
I would recommend the LS without hesitation. It is refined yet sporty. It wants to run every time you turn the key. Staying at the speed limit is a challange! I find myself hitting triple digits getting on the freeway! That's not too hard with everyone else doing 80+, but I digress. If you want a Lexus smooth, quiet, isolated ride, this car isn't for you. If you like to DRIVE, you'll find this car quite satisfying. Don't let a test drive fool you. This car needs quite a few thousand miles to loosen-up. It feels very slow and unwilling right away. The RPM's don't want to climb. Once the engine breaks-in the RPM's climb and before you know it, you're at the rev limiter! I'm already planning my next one and we will be a 2 LS family!
Regards,
Airwolf1000
"If you want a Lexus smooth, quiet, isolated ride, this car isn't for you."
I think this could be misleading. My 2000 LS V8 non-sport IS definitely in the smooth, quiet category. Maybe not quite Lexus, but 80 MPH cruising is deceptively smooth & quiet ... to the point that all four occupants can converse in normal tones, as though the car is parked.
I had no complaints about manual downshift quality so that is fine, too. What really surprised me was the much crisper manual upshifts. I don't recall upshift quality being mentioned in the summary of the TSB that I read, but the improvement is obvious. The 1-2 and 2-3 manual shifts at WOT gives a very pleasing lunge that is much stronger than before. I can't help but wonder if 0-60 and quarter mile times wouldn't be slightly improved.
My questions: Was the TSB intended to improve upshift quality or is that just a pleasant side-effect? Also, this morning when I started the engine (about 50 degrees outside temp) the engine quickly settled into a normal nice idle. It didn't run at 1500 RPM like it usually does. Did the TSB impact engine calibration or was the low idle just a result of the warmer (by Minneapolis standards) temperature? Or was it some strange fluke?
I swear everything about this car pleases me more every time I drive it!
Bruce
I'm glad you like it. A lot of effort went into that update, both from my area (transmission) and from the engine calibration people.
The TSB installs the 2001 calibration into the 2000 cars. There were many, many improvements that went into it both from engine and transmission. The TSB just mentions the areas that we had complaints so that the dealers know how to resolve those complaints. The TSB does not have a comprehensive list of all the improvements.
Mark
Your statement
"There were many, many improvements that went into it both from engine and transmission. The TSB just mentions the areas that we had complaints so that the dealers know how to resolve those complaints. The TSB does not have a comprehensive list of all the improvements"
begs the question . . . can a comprehensive list of all the improvements be made available?
My dealer put a very hard sell on me to have the transmission fluid changed at 30,000 miles. I do not meet the severe service as outlined in the owners manual. My dealer says "Driving in the Twin Cities IS severe service."
Has anyone else been encouraged to do this? Any opinions? Thanks.
Bruce
I agree with you on everything you said. Especially the 1-2 2-3 shift. I have had a 2001 loaner LS on multiple occasions and man.... Engages almost seamlessly and with authoritii...Big difference from my 2000 which still needs the TSB. The 1-2,2-3 Sounds like boxing ( give em the old 1-2). Anyways the new 1-2, 2-3 combo is a knockout... As well as the removal of the reverse delay. Keeps you from getting hit off guard
Airwolf