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Comments
Mark
Can you describe you brake problem? I have had intermittent brake problem in where it feels like there is a restriction in the pedal when depressing and then it snaps back up at you with a thud/bang type sound. Seems to be more frequent in wet weather but not restricted to it.
The LS is a great car for the price. If it had perfect build quality then Lincoln would probably charge >$38K (540 prices) and that would put me out of the range I accept for something that its main object is for basic transportation from point A to B but having fun doing it.
By pressing the SETUP button above the stereo, I can switch from English to Metric (shocking to watch the odometer go from 9k to 15k!), and I can turn off auto lock, easy entry, and lock chirp.
I haven't tried turning off auto lock, but I assume that means that the doors won't lock when you reach the preset speed. I may be wrong, but I don't think you can program them to automatically unlock when you stop.
One thing to be cautious of is the easy exit feature. Normally, I drive with my seat all the way back. However, when a passenger rides behind me, I pull it forward. The thing I found to be cautious of is that when you remove the key to get out, the seat starts moving back and the passenger in the rear seat better be prepared or not have too long a legs. I was able to stop the seat by catching the button and holding it forward. But the first couple of times, this nifty little feature is a surprise. As with the closing of windows, I think that it should have pressure switch that prevents it from crushing anything on the floor behind the seat. If there were a child down there, it could be a liability issue for Lincoln, something they may want to consider addressing if they have not.
I love the fact that the steering wheel gets out of the way, but maybe the seat is pushing it on the easy exit and maybe there should be a way to just move them individually and/or both. If anyone knows if this is programmable, please let me know?
Jeff
My red LS is in for it's first oil change (2200 miles) Also, had to get them to fix the rear driver door window. Switch on rear door doesn't work, but the one on the driver door for that window does work. Problem has probably been there since day 1. One of my daughter's friends sat back there and found the problem.
A friend of mine noticed another problem I hadn't seen - The rear passenger door had an area about the size of a pack of smokes where the paint didn't look right. Could actually see a dimple about 1/2 the size of a dime outlined under the paint. Rivet or fastener maybe? Dealer body shop says they fixed it and looks great. I'll see tomorrow.
All else great with my LS, cept 2 elec gremlins: one is that the seat doesn't always go back when the car is turned off - but strangely this happens only when my wife drives it. Other one: I got home from work one day last week shut er down and got out of the car and pressed the trunk open button on the fob. Nothing. Tried the one on the dash. Nothing. Gas door worked, but not trunk. Put key in ignition and turned to ON and back OFF. Then it worked again.
As for mileage, I'm not terribly impressed with my V6 yet. 5 fillups so far, 4 avg'd just under 19, one was almost 22. Probably 2/3 of the miles are hiway, but not flat - up and down 1800 ft pass. Twice a day. My '93 Mark8 would get consistently over 22 on this drive. It got over 26 when we drove to Irvine with 4 people and luggage for LS Mania 1.
Have a loaner Sable LS wagon right now. Kinda like it. Great feature is the adjustable pedals. Has a 200hp Duratech mounted transversly under the hood. Feels peppy enuf for this car. Car rides quite well. But my LS is better, if a bit stiffer. The Sable also just doesn't have that solid, confident feel at freeway speeds I've become used to. Compared to the LS, I mean. Compared to a Dodge Stratus I had when my van was in shop 2 weeks ago, Sable is better and quieter on the road. Don't like the torque steer of the FWD though.
Ford claimed to adopt this mentality back in the 80s with the "Quality is Job 1" campaign. Can't say I really see Ford touting total quality management or continuous quality improvement much anymore.
However, Joe166, I wasn't able to stop the steering wheel. It would bogg down, but continue to move. Maybe I didn't bogg it enough, but I didn't want to break it trying to prove you right.
Jeff
Now you manual owners know that if they stopped making manuals, considering the relatively small number of them out there, you would own a collector car
Just joking about the last part!
Brian
2. George: this may not be the concern that you described, but sometimes owners of the 2001's inadvertantly hit the Valet switch in the glove box which disables the trunk switches. This has caused some owners to bring their cars in for service when it is not needed.
3. As I am at home right now I can't look it up, but as I recall the seat memory feature moves rearward a specific amount when the key is removed, not to the end of the track. If the seat is already with-in that distance from the end of travel it does not move. I don't recall how tall Whitney is, but if her legs are longer than yours (my wife's are longer than mine) that may be the reason.
4.Lastly, Although I don't believe I can make it to LS Mania II, on June 1st, 2nd, and 3rd I'll be at the "Mercathon" Mercury Owners get together during the All-Ford Nationals at Carlisle, PA. I'll be the one standing next to the mean looking 2003 Marauder, so stop by and say Hello if you get a chance.
Dick
Oh. There ain't no way he's driving the Lincoln!
Please, please do not show the same Marauder at Carlisle that was on display at the NY Autoshow, unless it's repainted.
Re 2554. Curb feelers and whitewalls???!!!!
Is this the automotive equivalent of a "full Cleveland?" Sorry, I couldn't resist. Seriously though, I think this stuff is partially the fault of the way Ford has marketed the car. There are still legions of people who still think this is nothing more than an entry level Lincoln. I saw a new ad on TV last night. They were pushing the new incentives. A brief MTV type clip of an LS paired once again with a Navigator. Whoopee. Exciting as watching paint dry.
Ask yourself if you have ever seen this stuff on a BMW, even a 3-series ("entry level").
Mike- my son had an 89 GT H/B, 5 speed headers, Magnaflows, 3.73 gears, MAF upgrade, cold-air kit, Motorsport clutch, underdrive pulleys, open hood scoops, etc., etc. I'm sure it was fun (had the bald rear tires to prove it), but I never drove it and he can't use the Lincoln unless I'm in the passenger seat.
1. C&D: From their test of X-type... "a few instrumented acceleration runs revealed that the measured 0-to-60 mph time of 6.3 seconds was only 0.2 second slower than the small BMW. We would rate the smoothness of the X-type's V-6 to be SIMILARLY CLOSE to that of the Bavarian in-line six." Close but still behind. Second is still second. Why be second?
Did you note how C&D raved about the new GM 4.2L I-6 in the tested Chevy Trailblazer LT that bested the Ford Explorer XLT 4.0L V-6? "Stirring engine sounds... No one will complain. The engine is smooth, quiet, and stron, powering to 60 mph in 7.9 seconds, easily besting the others." The heavier, more powerful Chevy also produced better fuel economy numbers & test results than the Ford.
2. Motor Trend: From their test of X-type... "These well balanced, 60 [degree] V-6s also proved quiet when driven in a civilized manner, ALTHOUGH THE INLINE-SIXES FOUND IN BMW 3 SERIES MAINTAIN A SLIGHT EDGE IN TERMS OF SMOOTHNESS AND OVERALL POLISH." Once again, second best is second best.
In the same issue, did you see how MT raved even more about GM's new 4.2L I-6, calling it "a breakthrough" and that it "work[s] wonders"?
I can also feel your pain about the 87 GT. NOT! Hehehe because I have the keys to my 87 GT (a Fiero GT not a Mustang). About the best it will do is chirp 2nd but it's a whole lot of fun, really noisy and quick, and relatively cheap to fix when it breaks. This is the car I bought to do autocross in lieu of the LS. The LS holds it's own but when I blow up the engine or tranny it would probably cost me more than $500 in junkyard parts to put it back on the road.
I never used synth oils and would like the opion of some who have. I really don't need the performance increase, but would like to see if it is worthy to help save on fuel costs?
Thanks,
Jeff
A neighbor just bought a LS 8. She had a Dodge Stealth before(FWD.) Noticed a couple of black marks where she pulled out onto the highway with the LS...
I saw this LS at the small-town Ford dealer that she bought this LS from. I recall reading "2000 Lincoln Mark VIII LSC" on the description line... that sums up LS awareness in the USA.
I continue to have a sporadic problem with a "oil" burining coming from engine. About every 300-600 miles this problem repeats itself.
A puff of white smoke came from the hood/fender the other day passenger side and also enters into my A/C system. Actually had a friend see it and think my car was on fire!
It smells like an oil but recently it was more pungent and actually made me get out of my car for the first time.
By the time I open the hood the smoke is gone, but can still smell the burning slightly while trying to diagnose where its coming from.
Any ideas? Its at the dealership today, but if they can't find it, see it, repeat it, they can't do anything about it. My guess is that it won't happen in the next day or two, because it only seems to happen after a while, which makes me think its a buildup problem.
thanks in advance,
Eric
Jeff
http://www.autonews.com/html/main/stories/ford516.htm
There are lots of other issues I'd like to address as well (one of which is I found myself, Gulp, strongly agreeing with one of Giowa's recent posts :>) but I'll post more about these later.
For now, thanks to Dick Cupka for addressing my 2 glitches above. As to the valet switch? Nope, I've never touched it. As for the seat not moving back when Whitney drives it? She's shorter than I and has the seat far forward. Your post might explain what's happening though. Perhaps the seat is moving a prescribed distance back from where she's got it set. Then when I get in, I notice it being far forward of where it moves back to when I get out, and I assume it hasn't moved back at all.
George
"We went to headhunters who didn't find us 51-year-old black males."
Or had Nasser said:
"I do not like the sea of black faces ... "
George
Respectfully,
Jeff
This is the first time I've used Mobil 1 so I will compare it to the oil I have used since 1974 in all my cars - Amsoil 100% Synthetic 10-30, the first syn oil for cars (since 1972). I think Amsoil may be a slight bit better but it is difficult to obtain and I am tired of the procurement game.
Why Syn oil? To quote March 1999 Pop Sci page 82:
"Both synthetic and standard motor oil come from petroleum products originally derived from naturally occuring crude oil.But as you might guess from the name, synthetic oil is the creation of chemists. Standard motor oil, on the other hand, is a refined version of the crude oil that sits in underground deposits until it is pumped.
The most natural oil is far from the best or the most efficient, however, when it comes to your engine. In its natural state, crude oil is a cocktail of thousands of different compounds, many of which would interfere with engine lubrication or damage your motor if poured into the crankcase. Ideally, the refinement process removes most of the other compounds so that only those that are best for engine lubrication are left in the motor oil. Realistically, however, this is difficult to do, and small amounts of other petroleum products - such as gasoline, kerosene and waxes - remain. Synthetic oil is made to order, and so has virtually none of these extra compounds. In essence, synthetic oil is an artificial ultra-refined oil.
The true difference between the two types of oil can be seen only at the molecular level. The molecular building blocks of all petroleum compounds are hydrocarbons, chains of carbon and hydrogen atoms. Naturally derived motor oils may contain hydrocarbons of various lengths, all of which perform differently with changing temperature. The light hydrocarbons, like gasoline and kerosene, vaporize at high temperatures and are too thin to lubricate high-speed metal parts like pistons. Heavy hydrocarbons, such as the waxes, can become sluggish or even solid at low temperatures, making the pumping of oil difficult. High engine temperatures can also sever the long hydrocarbon
chains.
In contrast, the molecules of synthetic oil are almost entirely uniform, which increases its stability across a wide range of temperatures. This uniformity also tends to produce fewer engine deposits and prolongs the time between oil changes".
My experience with engines is that engine life is very much related to how long the top piston ring stays free and able to expand. With regular oil, the oil tends to coke and freeze the top ring. That's the beginning of the end. Syn oil has a much higher burning temp, minimizing this problem. It also keeps your engine licking clean inside and outside, since vapors from regular oil deposit on the engine and collect dirt. Sludge is rare or non-existant. Oil life is longer, and your engine uses less since the top end doesn't boil off. All jet engines have used syn oil only since the 1940's. It also helps the engine run cooler because it has superior heat transfer (thermal) properties. The diff lubricant in the LS is synthetic. The use of Syn lube in your auto tranny will really increase its life. I currently use Redline MTL Synthetic in my Getrag in the summer (I use 50-50 MTL and Redline Syn Mercon in the winter). I even change my wheel bearing grease to synthetic.
Cost? If you like your car, plan to keep it, and want increased component life, Syn oil is worth it. It is factory fill in at least the Corvette.
A good price on Mobil 1 10-30 is what I paid - $25.74 for a case of six bottles. Castrol Syntec is being challenged for the use of the word 'Synthetic". The whole story was in Car and Driver magazine. It costs the same as Mobil 1 so you make the choice.
When people discuss synthetics, they often don't discuss how they are actually using them. Are we talking about the oil being changed, along with filter, every 5,000 or less miles or going 10,000 or more miles? I have never seen any research that showed a conclusive advantage to synthetic if high grade "natural" oil is changed every 5K or less along with filter.
11/00 issue of C&D has Patrick Bedard's comments on the synth labelling controversy. In addition, he discusses the purported merits of synth. He can't find proof it is better. And, as he points out, the synth makers still recommend changing your oil every 3,000 miles.
The Nasser quote, as I understand it, though I have not seen it myself, is on a videotape used in Ford "diversity training". Personally, I'm very pissed that he would say that. And I wouldn't care if the adjective applied to 'faces' was white, black, red, green, ugly or whatever. But if it *had* been black or brown, eg, how quickly do you think the US Justice Dept would have descended on Detroit?
Second, I don't believe in discrimination of any kind. You say you don't either, yet you also say your Fortune 500 company: "uses similar practices [to those of Ford], but I know we don't pick one over the other, it is more a change on how we go about recruitment." This is pretty strange territory. If your company has a goal of "diversity" then, by definition, your company will choose *anyone* over a white male, all else equal. Believe me, reverse discrimination exists. I've seen it in the USAF, I've seen it at NASA and I've seen it in corporate America.
Now, we probably should find a different forum for this conversation before it hits the fan. So I hope we can agree to disagree and focus on one of the things we have in common: the Lincoln LS.
Other than the sentence or two about "aircraft engines" I thought the article stanny quoted was insightful and accurate. In my humble, and somewhat educated opinion, I have no doubt that syn oils are much better than non-syn oils as they apply to the internal combustion engine, however, I cannot attest to their "cost effectiveness" over non-syn oils, particularly when one changes oil at intervals less than 5K miles.
Are you a journalist/lawyer as you seem to take many postings out of context!!
Synthetic works for me..
I, for one, have been a firm believer in high-quality synthetic oil since 1979 when I first used it in my 1979 Turbo Capri 2.3L race car. With a modified engine that had a turbo boost of 10psi(5 more than stock), the engine lasted the equivalent of over 100,000 miles without a major teardown.
Every car I've owned that I've used synthetic motor oil in has consistently gained approximately 1 mpg or more increase as compared to petroleum-based oils. I also do an oil analysis on my oil prior to changing it to determine if it needs to be. I normally go about 15,000 miles between oil changes on the street unless the analysis kit tells me different and I've done this pretty consistently over the years without any noticeable wear on the engine.But that is just MY personal observations and nothing scientific about it. As I pointed out if you really are dying to know, ante up the 10 bucks for each of the papers. Here are the papers that relate to the subject of oil lubrication. The web address is: www.sae.org
8. Paper: 2000-01-2920: Formulation Capabilities with API Group III Synthetic Base Fluids
9. Paper: 2001-01-1969: The Influence of a Commercial Oil Recycler on Oil Quality from a Bus in Service Using Synthetic Oil
12. Paper: 982002: Evaluation of Application Related Properties of Hydraulic Fluids by Laboratory Tests and Experiences with Biodegradable Fluids in Laboratory and Field
13. Paper: 982005: A Report on the Field Test Performanceof a Soybean-Based Hydraulic Oil
14. Standard: ARP4249: Bearing Corrosion Test Method
18. WebPage: SAE Automotive Fuels & Lubricants Database: Content and Sources
19. WebPage: Toward Improved Fuel Economy in Passenger Car Motor Oils: An Investigation into the Influence of Detergent System & Friction Modifier as Measured by the EPA Federal Test Procedure and Highway Fuel Economy Test Cycles
20. WebPage: SAE Aerospace Propulsion Division
22. Paper: 1999-01-3464: Development of a Wear Test Procedure to Evaluate Automotive Lubricating Oils
23. Paper: 2000-01-1822: Evaluation of Oil Performance Using the TU High Temperature Engine Test with a View to Extending Oil Drain Intervals
24. Paper: 2000-01-1913: Impact of Fuel and Oil Quality on Deposits, Wear and Emissions from a Light Duty Diesel Engine with High EGR
25. Paper: 2000-01-1992: Development of High Performance Heavy-Duty Diesel Engine Oil to Extend Oil Drain Intervals: 5W30 Fully Synthetic Oil Containing MoDTC
26. Paper: 2000-01-1993: Performance of an Advanced Synthetic Diesel Engine Oil
27. Paper: 2000-01-2922: Alkali Metal Salt/Arylamine Antioxidation System in Synthetic Lubricants
28. Paper: 981444: Advanced Synthetic Passenger Vehicle Engine Oils for Extended Oil Drain Performance
29. Paper: 981448: Used Oil Analysis and Study of Oil Drain Period in Gasoline Engine
30. Paper: 981489: Environmentally Acceptable Hydraulic Fluids Based on Natural Synthetic Esters
36. Paper: 982718: Extended Oil Drain Performance Capabilities ofDiesel Engine Oils
37. Standard: ARP424: Bearing Corrosion Test Method
Just out of curiosity, in the Army, they used to have a kit to test the oil on the vehicles, helping to know when they needed changing. Brian, since you said you do the same, where do you get such a kit?
Jeff
However, I'm not so sure it is a good idea to change back to dino oil once you've used syn oil as I believe there are issues relating to engine seals that do not react well to backward change. In all, I'm still on the fence with syn oil. First, I believe if it were completely safe to use (for the engine, not the driver), the OEMs would endorse it with their owners manuals (LM does not for the LS). Second, the cost is greater for syn oil, regardless who pays for the oil changes, and last, when dino oil is changed per the OEMs recommendations, the engines will operate as designed. FWIW.
Now after all of this positive talk about synthetics, I think we all know there is still one member on this forum who will make 9000 posts trying to convince everyone that dino oil is better than synth. Not that he actually believes it, but just because it's an attempt to stir the pot. Lets not let that occur guys.
I have NEVER seen anything like you describe!
Yes, smart buyers want more reliable cars. So buyers tend to be willing to pay more for better built cars. But building a more reliable, troublefree car is no more expensive. From a pricing and marketing strategy standpoint, it can allow a manufacturer to charge a slightly higher price (all other things being equal), but the pricing determination is one based on marketing and profit factors, and not due to any increase in costs associated with using TQM/CQI to build a more reliable car. The same manufacturer could use the cost advantage to actually charge less and grab market share. Who wouldn't buy more of a less expensive, well built product?