Just to prove how fickle Texas weather is, it has rained almost every day for a week. Monday morning I washed ol' Silver Bullet for a road trip to pick up my daughter. Yah, it rained on the way home. Last night and today it rained. More rain forecasted everyday through Saturday. This is going to be one very dirty M. Glad I'm not in construction-every job site is a quagmire.
I ordered mine from www.bakerprecision.com they were half the price and I am very happy with the filter. It was $24.61 for a 7" dual cone filter. My first tube was 3" ABS inwhich I use some aluminum flex tubing around it to help insolate it. The Plemunm restriction is near the center of the unit and is arould 2.25".
greetings, ladies and germs from the Doctor! When we last left Glenn, he was describing a bizarre, yet attractive light show that ocurred when he MAY have inadvertently pressed the PANIC button on his trusty remote. This evening (Glenn is typing this @ 11:11pm, but the incident described herein ocurred about 6:05pm...to set the mood so to speak/type...) Glenn returned home after running an errand for his S.O. Linda. While returning to his sprawling estate in New Joisey, the lights on the dashboard--and the radio, AND the gear indicators began to flash/blink with and audible 'dink' or 'click' sound on and off, or dim somewhat several times...then stop for a bit...then start doing this again. Upon pulling into his driveway, the blinking/flashing/clicking continued for a bit --then stopped. He turned the engine off which stopped the blinking-but some feeble clicking was heard for a second or so. Glenn needs to know should he contact Father Karas again? He did NOT touch the remote; but he remembers someone here on this very board/forum had similar problems. If a voodoo solution is required, please reply to his work email with a possible solution/TSB or idea on what may be causing this; and also a good location to purchase 'eye of newt' and/or 'bat tongues'...
hey guys its me tom. "DUBSON300M" i messed up my e mail address so i didnt get a password for that name, o well. anyways, i was just wondering if anyone here has or knows who has a champaign colored "M" with 20's on it in the Phoenix/Chandler area. i saw it on the way to work this morning and it looked good, I wanted to meet up with this person and take some pictures!! let me know
scotian. -your resonator may look smooth but inside is a baffle to quiet the air noise, get rid of that big piece of junk if you want more air .
fuzzywuzzy- sorry man .that's Detroit's call ,they set all the rules .We just build them
rstilp- well if these two guys are both from your office I figure they must both be American , so looks like we put some wrong stickers on one Intrepid. Are all the emblems wrong ? or just the trunk , or the hood one? Intrepids are Chryslers in Canada, every place else they are Dodge. So the one guy could take it back and have them changed or have one unique car EH!!. Hey just wondering does the airbag on the steering wheel say Dodge or Chrysler?
Hey is the light switch in the Automatic position. Seems I remember someone saying it only happened in automatic. Can whoever this happened to get drpixel some advice? Sounds like a 5* trip. I think the clicking you heard was probably the relays under the pass side dash that make the magic of automatic lights happen.
I agree with Fuzzy on the light show. Try your panic button on the remote and see if you don't get the same result. The only other thought I have on this is that when one of my door locks went out, I thought the doors were all locked and system was armed. When I opened the door the alarm would go off because the one door wasn't registering I guess. Drove me nuts til I saw one of the posts in the up position when it should have gone down "locked" at 15mph. Once I saw that I took it in and they replaced the locking mechanism in the door. That doesn't sound like what happened to you, but check the action of the door locks when you arm the system to be sure they are all working and moving into the down position.
I tried to get that restriction out. I tried for hours. I could not get it out. Tried heat, a hammer, drill, I don't see how unless the whole resenator is broken out.
I increased my air intake by removing two inner sleaves inside the plenum box. The sleeves narrow inside the plenum box and restrict air flow. The plenum is the box closest to the TB. To remove and re-install, you should first remove the cowl.
Actually removing the sleeves takes some patience. It would be easy to destroy the outer sleeves and make your plenum unuseable if you get carried away. I applied heat to input and output sides of the plenum, then took a small screwdriver to pry inner and outer sleeves apart. There is also a mounting point on the bottom side of the plenum that you will want to drill out and patch later. Then you need to grip the inner sleaves with pliers and pull them out. Mine came out in hundreds of pieces, but eventually you can remove the two inner sleeves.
Once you re-install the plenum, you will notice a dramatic increase in air flow and more of a whooshing sound (which is what I suspect Chrysler was trying to eliminate with the sleeves). The increased air flow really complements a dual exhaust mod very nicely.
Morning, all and thanks for the responses from 99_300m_ric_va and bigmike5 to my alter-ego's question (..okay it was ME...). Since I'm at the work 20, I'll have to check this out this evening. When exiting the vehicle, I sometimes just hit the doot lock button on the door console, and then hit the chirper when I get out and close the door--just for good measure!
99_300m_ric_va: I emailed you last night regarding a lost--or most likely forgotten password for the ezBoard. I clicked on the 'forgot your password' link and was told they'd email me back to the email address I registered with. See, a while back I had set up an earlier ezBoard for the club--which was never used as I was in the test phase. Is there anything you can do about this?
or you could order a 2002 air resonator as the box is now hollow . Nothing inside but space. Not sure what the thing would cost $$ but it cant be that much its only a plastic box
When I go into a dealership to order it, what exactly do I tell them I want?
I haven't given it a close examination, but it sounds like there is a part that attaches directly to the TB shoving the air 90 degrees, to that is connected a longer part that moves the air 90 degrees, then the hose to the resonator and air box. So, the restriction is entirely contained in the "longer part" and that's the only part I have to replace, or is there also a restriction in the part directly connected to the TB? And the sensor(s) are all connected to the part directly connected to the TB?
I like the idea of buying another part, in case the whoosh noise is unbearable or I break the one I have. Well, I suppose it wouldn't be unbearable if that's how they are made now.
Ok guys...more car information/impressions to report as a result of my car rental experiences. The two most recent, a Olds Intrigue and a Chevy Malibu:
Intrigue: Very quick due to the V6 and light weight. Seems it would easily beat the M 0-60. The power steering was so powerful that you could probably turn the wheel all the way around while stationary using only your tongue (not that I'd recommend it). Still had good road steering feel even with the overpowered steering. Otherwise the car is unremarkable. The stereo sucks and the interior is bland. Oh, and Alamo better start taking better care of their cars or I'm never renting there again. This one was beat.
Malibu: Just don't. A supreme piece of chicken droppings in every sense of the word.
I rented a Malibu from Alamo in Maui last fall. They hadn't even washed the car from the previous user, and I think it had been driven thru mud. I have rented from Alamo for the last time.
I asked myself why anyone would ever BUY a Malibu when there are so many good vehicles out there at comparable prices. A thoroughly underwhelming car in every way. The GM clone of the Yugo, but larger.
man i'm worried now, i got my rims on today, the tires are so damn close to the strut its not even funny. there 255/35. please tell me someone is running a 255 on the 300m with no probs. man i hope i don't have to get a set of 245's. the rim is fine its 8.5" wide.
Sorry man ... everyone I talked to said that 245 is the "... SAFEST size to go with on a 20" rim for the 300M". I have 245-35-20. Time to ship those rubber rings back or use them for your tire swing in the back yard and get some 245's. Better to be safe than sorry. =*(
I didn't get a ticket. Or pulled over. The detector did it's job very well. I replaced the K40 I had in the M. I moved the K40 to my Explorer, & bought the Passport for the M. Thing detected the trooper well over a mile!
costs around $50. The dealer said he doesn't have a 2002 parts catalog yet, so I can't order one right now.
It is one piece from the TB to the hose, although it looks like two separate pieces. Why did they mold it to look that way? Why does it have a flat top? Why do they care what these sorts of things look like in the engine compartment? A lot of needless extra engineering and screwing around if you ask me.
Otto: When you say the 2002 one is hollow, you mean it doesn't even have those baffles? Does the 2001 have no restriction but still has baffles?
I've read all of scotian and otto's posts about the air box, but I'm still not following exactly what's going on. I guess it's since I haven't dug around in that area under the hood. For those that have, where are the bottlenecks in the air intake? From what I understand the system is built essentially as follows:
Air/Filter Box Air Intake Hose Plenum/Resonator(s?) Throttle Body
I understand the improvements that can be made at the filter box (K&N, cone, cold air, etc.), and the throttle body (boring, 90 degree mod, etc.), but I'm unclear what restrictions exist in the intake hose and the air box. There must be something because several people have replaced or modified both. Can someone summarize this for me?
Has anybody installed the fully modified throttle body with bored-out restriction and 90 degree opening throttle plate? If so, what were the measureable results? Are there any posts on the Dodge R/T board on this topic?
sdmike-I'll be joining you in rentaheap hell tomorrow. Traveling on business to Houston, also known as "sweat city".
I've done the TB mod and intake changes. I had mine professionally disassembled and bored smooth to 70mm, but 68mm is what most people are doing. I also had the black rod that holds on the plate shaved a bit to reduce restriction. The plate I used is a Holley 70mm replacement part, but if you bore to 68mm you can keep the stock plate. I removed and installed the TB myself.
I went through several versions of the intake filter changes. Removed the smaller noise reducer, added S&B Cone filter, used flexible plastic duct to connect Cone filter to stock plenum. Later I busted up my plenum to remove the inlet and outlet smooth inner sleeves. They do narrow towards the middle of the plenum. They have built in tabs that lock into the outside casing but are difficult to remove without something to pry on. I tried prying the gap at the end and broke the outer sleeve where the hoses clamp to a bit. I then punched some holes in the inside surface of the sleeves in an attempt to get something I could pry and pull at. Pulling out is the answer, there is just very little to bite on. Once I had little broken sections of the outer sleeve, I had something to pull on. I finally got them out and the plenum looked like *!*%^ when I was done. Luckily I had a 3" tube on order from Steven Lister. Once I received that I installed it with the addition of an extra clamp to attach my S&B, since Steven's design is to connect to the stock air box.
Doing the TB bore out I felt an immediate throttle response improvement. High rpm gear kickdowns are quite strong. The growl of the engine is a little louder (it is load anyway). The air plenum without the restrictor sleeves was also a little more improvement, but comparing that setup to the tube intake replacement was virtually no difference. I would recommend just going to the tube, since breaking the plenum sucks and the tube looks cooler, plus you can always put it back stock when you're ready to sell the car.
I have no numbers to prove anything, but I'm probably going to get the car dynoed as is with the intake and TB mods and the Hugo dual exhaust. I read the Dodge Intrepid guy were doing some tests that showed stock is around 150 HP at the wheels and some mod, either intake TB or exhaust not both, got it to around 180 at the wheels. I'm thinking both may be around 200HP which I guess equates to 300 engine HP. Who knows.
Sorry so long, but I hope this answers your questions.
If you keep the orginal 90deg. bend (the one between the TB and the Pleumn you still have a restriction. If you take a look at this bend you will see a definate restriction there. There are a few restrictions in the system not counting the air filter. the first one is rated #3 that is the bend that the air first comes in off the fender well. The second restriction is the one in the Pleumn rated #1. the third is the 90 degree bend between the TB and the Pleunm, which is rated #2. #'s 1 & 2 are the same diameter as the stock TB. So they effece performance if you bore out the TB to the 68-70mm. Figure a tenth decrease in 0-60 times, minus another if the TB is bored out too.
I agree more could be done, as you have, to remove bends in the air path. But I think inside the stock plenum is where the path gets narrowest - I'm not sure a gerbil could fit through there. Anyway, I left my stock air filter and resonator alone, and still noticed a huge improvement. BTW, when we met Otto in Dearborn, he mentioned there is yet another internal restriction in the hose that connects plenum to TB. I will check that out next time I have it apart.
Hey Ric, did I read right? Just run a friggin 3" hose directly to the throttle body assembly? Sounds like a nice simple fix...except it removes the resonator and the plenum. What's the plenum do, just restrict air flow and noise?
I tested different setup's too. I guess you guys can live with the intake noise. It was too loud for me, on my M anyway. Maybe your M's sound different. When I stepped on it, I got a high pitched whine. Sounded like a turbo spooling up. I hated it! I drilled the box, put a stock K&N filter in, & left it like that. No more whine.
http://www.homestead.com/300N/300N.html go to this link and see the picture of the intake set-up.Look at the top picture and the part that was changed is the top plenum with the yellow arrow pointing at it .The inside of a late 2001 and all 2002's plenum is empty( you can put your hand inside it ). If you look inside a 99-00 you will see a plastic sleeve (restriction) .Also if you remove the intake from the car ,look at the rubber neck that is clamped onto the TB. If you look at the inside hose you will see a large chunk of rubber inside (restriction) take a knife and cut this part out ,making it flat . I did this to a buddies R/T and also installed the bored TB . Quite a different feel.
Also we built a bunch of 02 EURO 300's yesterday,one new part is a brace that ties the rear strut towers together. The bar is bolted in just behind the back seat. The problem with this bar is when and if you need to fold the rear seats down to haul stuff this bar is right in the way ,very restrictive .I also checked a bunch of non-euro cars and they all had the mounting studs on the cars ,so if anybody wanted to add this brace all they would have to do is get the bar and two nuts. Not sure if 99-01 model cars have these mounting bolts already in the car. You guys can check by going to the rear strut area under the car ( you may have to remove the tire) if you look up were the strut goes through the body ,on the forward facing part of the body a large washer and pressed in stud will be noticeable . If you don't see anything that looks like a flat washer about an inch big I guess it is new for 02. I will be checking a buddies 00 car and let you know what I find.
i take it we can probably not order european 300m parts from our dealers right? i wonder if any chrysler dealers in europe will ship to US. i'm gonna see if i can get an number on'em and order that. otto u know where we can get those parts?
What is classed as a late model 01? Mine was factory ordered mid or late March to my specifications and I took delivery on this M about the 7th of May.
Comments
I know I put in Amsoil ATF in my 94 Dodge Ram several years agos without any problems.
Can we do this on the M's?
This is going to be one very dirty M. Glad I'm not in construction-every job site is a quagmire.
SD_mike2 or tucsongil, Send sunshine, please;>)
Silver
Stock with Goodyear tires was 7.78 average 3 runs.
Latest w/o ram air is 6.87, three runs average. For 0-60 times.
My first tube was 3" ABS inwhich I use some aluminum flex tubing around it to help insolate it. The Plemunm restriction is near the center of the unit and is arould 2.25".
This evening (Glenn is typing this @ 11:11pm, but the incident described herein ocurred about 6:05pm...to set the mood so to speak/type...) Glenn returned home after running an errand for his S.O. Linda.
While returning to his sprawling estate in New Joisey, the lights on the dashboard--and the radio, AND the gear indicators began to flash/blink with and audible 'dink' or 'click' sound on and off, or dim somewhat several times...then stop for a bit...then start doing this again. Upon pulling into his driveway, the blinking/flashing/clicking continued for a bit --then stopped. He turned the engine off which stopped the blinking-but some feeble clicking was heard for a second or so.
Glenn needs to know should he contact Father Karas again? He did NOT touch the remote; but he remembers someone here on this very board/forum had similar problems. If a voodoo solution is required, please reply to his work email with a possible solution/TSB or idea on what may be causing this; and also a good location to purchase 'eye of newt' and/or 'bat tongues'...
Glenn's alter-ego,
The Marquis de 300m
TOM
"DUBSON300M"
fuzzywuzzy- sorry man .that's Detroit's call ,they set all the rules .We just build them
rstilp- well if these two guys are both from your office I figure they must both be American , so looks like we put some wrong stickers on one Intrepid. Are all the emblems wrong ? or just the trunk , or the hood one? Intrepids are Chryslers in Canada, every place else they are Dodge. So the one guy could take it back and have them changed or have one unique car EH!!. Hey just wondering does the airbag on the steering wheel say Dodge or Chrysler?
So guess where they ended up?
Actually removing the sleeves takes some patience. It would be easy to destroy the outer sleeves and make your plenum unuseable if you get carried away. I applied heat to input and output sides of the plenum, then took a small screwdriver to pry inner and outer sleeves apart. There is also a mounting point on the bottom side of the plenum that you will want to drill out and patch later. Then you need to grip the inner sleaves with pliers and pull them out. Mine came out in hundreds of pieces, but eventually you can remove the two inner sleeves.
Once you re-install the plenum, you will notice a dramatic increase in air flow and more of a whooshing sound (which is what I suspect Chrysler was trying to eliminate with the sleeves). The increased air flow really complements a dual exhaust mod very nicely.
99_300m_ric_va: I emailed you last night regarding a lost--or most likely forgotten password for the ezBoard. I clicked on the 'forgot your password' link and was told they'd email me back to the email address I registered with. See, a while back I had set up an earlier ezBoard for the club--which was never used as I was in the test phase. Is there anything you can do about this?
Regards,
Doc
I haven't given it a close examination, but it sounds like there is a part that attaches directly to the TB shoving the air 90 degrees, to that is connected a longer part that moves the air 90 degrees, then the hose to the resonator and air box. So, the restriction is entirely contained in the "longer part" and that's the only part I have to replace, or is there also a restriction in the part directly connected to the TB? And the sensor(s) are all connected to the part directly connected to the TB?
I like the idea of buying another part, in case the whoosh noise is unbearable or I break the one I have. Well, I suppose it wouldn't be unbearable if that's how they are made now.
The air box is about $100 (top & bottom).
-M
Intrigue: Very quick due to the V6 and light weight. Seems it would easily beat the M 0-60. The power steering was so powerful that you could probably turn the wheel all the way around while stationary using only your tongue (not that I'd recommend it). Still had good road steering feel even with the overpowered steering. Otherwise the car is unremarkable. The stereo sucks and the interior is bland. Oh, and Alamo better start taking better care of their cars or I'm never renting there again. This one was beat.
Malibu: Just don't. A supreme piece of chicken droppings in every sense of the word.
I asked myself why anyone would ever BUY a Malibu when there are so many good vehicles out there at comparable prices. A thoroughly underwhelming car in every way. The GM clone of the Yugo, but larger.
or did you get the ticket despite getting the radar?
http://members.cardomain.com/herrmdogg
HerrmDogg
It is one piece from the TB to the hose, although it looks like two separate pieces. Why did they mold it to look that way? Why does it have a flat top? Why do they care what these sorts of things look like in the engine compartment? A lot of needless extra engineering and screwing around if you ask me.
Otto: When you say the 2002 one is hollow, you mean it doesn't even have those baffles? Does the 2001 have no restriction but still has baffles?
Air/Filter Box
Air Intake Hose
Plenum/Resonator(s?)
Throttle Body
I understand the improvements that can be made at the filter box (K&N, cone, cold air, etc.), and the throttle body (boring, 90 degree mod, etc.), but I'm unclear what restrictions exist in the intake hose and the air box. There must be something because several people have replaced or modified both. Can someone summarize this for me?
Thanks
Mike
http://www.homestead.com/300N/300N.html
sdmike-I'll be joining you in rentaheap hell tomorrow. Traveling on business to Houston, also known as "sweat city".
Silver
I've done the TB mod and intake changes. I had mine professionally disassembled and bored smooth to 70mm, but 68mm is what most people are doing. I also had the black rod that holds on the plate shaved a bit to reduce restriction. The plate I used is a Holley 70mm replacement part, but if you bore to 68mm you can keep the stock plate. I removed and installed the TB myself.
I went through several versions of the intake filter changes. Removed the smaller noise reducer, added S&B Cone filter, used flexible plastic duct to connect Cone filter to stock plenum. Later I busted up my plenum to remove the inlet and outlet smooth inner sleeves. They do narrow towards the middle of the plenum. They have built in tabs that lock into the outside casing but are difficult to remove without something to pry on. I tried prying the gap at the end and broke the outer sleeve where the hoses clamp to a bit. I then punched some holes in the inside surface of the sleeves in an attempt to get something I could pry and pull at. Pulling out is the answer, there is just very little to bite on. Once I had little broken sections of the outer sleeve, I had something to pull on. I finally got them out and the plenum looked like *!*%^ when I was done. Luckily I had a 3" tube on order from Steven Lister. Once I received that I installed it with the addition of an extra clamp to attach my S&B, since Steven's design is to connect to the stock air box.
Doing the TB bore out I felt an immediate throttle response improvement. High rpm gear kickdowns are quite strong. The growl of the engine is a little louder (it is load anyway). The air plenum without the restrictor sleeves was also a little more improvement, but comparing that setup to the tube intake replacement was virtually no difference. I would recommend just going to the tube, since breaking the plenum sucks and the tube looks cooler, plus you can always put it back stock when you're ready to sell the car.
I have no numbers to prove anything, but I'm probably going to get the car dynoed as is with the intake and TB mods and the Hugo dual exhaust. I read the Dodge Intrepid guy were doing some tests that showed stock is around 150 HP at the wheels and some mod, either intake TB or exhaust not both, got it to around 180 at the wheels. I'm thinking both may be around 200HP which I guess equates to 300 engine HP. Who knows.
Sorry so long, but I hope this answers your questions.
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/rpowelljr300n/lst?.dir=/My+Photos/1999+300m+70mm+Thottle+Body
Intake setups
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/rpowelljr300n/lst?.dir=/My+Photos/1999+300m+Intake+Mods
There are a few restrictions in the system not counting the air filter. the first one is rated #3 that is the bend that the air first comes in off the fender well. The second restriction is the one in the Pleumn rated #1. the third is the 90 degree bend between the TB and the Pleunm, which is rated #2. #'s 1 & 2 are the same diameter as the stock TB. So they effece performance if you bore out the TB to the 68-70mm.
Figure a tenth decrease in 0-60 times, minus another if the TB is bored out too.
Hey Ric, did I read right? Just run a friggin 3" hose directly to the throttle body assembly? Sounds like a nice simple fix...except it removes the resonator and the plenum. What's the plenum do, just restrict air flow and noise?
Also we built a bunch of 02 EURO 300's yesterday,one new part is a brace that ties the rear strut towers together. The bar is bolted in just behind the back seat. The problem with this bar is when and if you need to fold the rear seats down to haul stuff this bar is right in the way ,very restrictive .I also checked a bunch of non-euro cars and they all had the mounting studs on the cars ,so if anybody wanted to add this brace all they would have to do is get the bar and two nuts. Not sure if 99-01 model cars have these mounting bolts already in the car. You guys can check by going to the rear strut area under the car ( you may have to remove the tire) if you look up were the strut goes through the body ,on the forward facing part of the body a large washer and pressed in stud will be noticeable . If you don't see anything that looks like a flat washer about an inch big I guess it is new for 02. I will be checking a buddies 00 car and let you know what I find.