In an other life I was a K&N dealer. Under normal conditions they should only need to be cleaned about every 50,000 miles...repeat 50,000. Be cafeful how you clean it. Never spray water under pressure on it. Clean with a hose from the inside out. Let air dry & then reoil with K&N oil. Guaranteed for 1,000,000 miles.
so I decided to fire up the old desktop which I hardly use for internet as we dont need no stinkin viruses on our biz computer. I may eventually get a K&N filter but would probably use it just 9 months of the year. In the summer, I would go with the regular filter as it could get dusty in summer heat and the beach trips (NE weather).
So mike: what is your mileage in your M seeing the town car gets better mileage. I only average 17.2 in 60 hwy-40 city driving--not too good--could be the gas in NE and those idling stops at Dunkin Donuts :-)
SDmike--I bet that Town Car is lots quieter than the M--like driving in your recliner in your living room.
Mats: I bought the premium mats at mat4less.com. Got fronts only--$35 with free shipping--nice heavy mat with raised edges--coverage is just fair, but as long as your careful it should work out fine. It looks great in the M and the color-black--matches the agate just fine--you can also get tan or grey--I believe its the same price--such a deal!
for those who used the new product, is it worth the extra cost--works out to about $10 as you save on using Z1--is it still easy to apply---got to get me some Zaino soon!
I saw a 300M today where the top edge of the front license plate frame was peeled off, probably while still attached to the car. Now you can see half of the chrome grille trim. I left a club card; hopefully they'll visit and learn how to do it right.
The only problem with the K&N aircharger is it it's for off road or racing and defeats some of the emmision controls which our province frowns on. It would also void the warranty if you have any left. I'm more interested in the K&N FIPK system but it appears that it is not made yet for the 300M. Anyone know if K&N plan on producing one. See it at:
As long as the engine breather is connected to the filtered airpath, emissions should be unaffected (unless a new air intake causes you to drive more/faster, which doesn't count).
How does the K&N FIPK differ from the K&N Aircharger, anyway? They both seem to be one and the same -- a replacement tube, a cone filter at the end of the tube, and a plastic wall to keep some of the hot underhood air out of the filter. Assuming they both connect the engine breather hose, they are completely identical, at least for the 300M.
I'm most interested in if they have a special molded piece that connects directly to the throttle body.
It would appear from the pictures on the K&N site that the Aircharger also replace the "mass air sensor" which hence may remove some of the emmison control devices while the FIPKis just attached to the existing mass air filter and straightens out the air flow. The FPIK documenation states that it is street legal and does not void warranty while the air charger states that it is not street legal and will remove some emmission controls.I may be reading it wrong but thats how I see it.
the only difference between a FIPK and a filtercharger is the the filtercharger does not have all the emissions connectors or senser hose hookups and the FIPK does. the FIPK is fully street legal and does not void the warranty. the filtercharger is "off-road or racing" use,and will void warranty! IMOP..just change it out before services. my warranty is already dead anyhow!
this info came strait from k&n. if both were available for a 300m, devices would look exactly the same except for the extra nipples for emissions hoses. neither one out performs the other!
the only thing they could no say was if it fits the '99.it is only listed for the '00,and '01. i dont believe their are any differences between any years except color and chrome are there?
The part number 63-1029 you mentioned in the Martel site is for a Dodge Intrepid and more importantly it's for the illegal Aircharger. I couldn't find the FIPK kit on their site for the 300M
Any update on the grill project that was mentioned earlier? I thought some lucky owner was working with a billet grill manufacturer to come up with something for the "M".
San Diego is very hilly, so local driving really take a toll on gas mileage. I seem to get in the low-mid 20s when driving on the freeway, but overall I normally get between 18 and 19. I cringe when I see my "instant mileage" display read 4 or 5 when I start up a hill from a stop. Yikes. What's strange is that when I fill the car my computer tells me that I have about 270 miles left on the tankfull. My calculator tells me that 17 gallons times even 18mpg is over 300 miles...so I don't know what my computer is doing. Maybe it's related to my gas guage. When it reads 1/8 full I can still put only 11-12 gallons in it.
I'm honestly not that impressed by the Town Car. Aside from the lack of exhaust noise it doesn't seem that much quieter. Maybe it's because I always have the radio cranked up in Big Red. heh. However, the car feels like it's floating rather than driving...which I don't really like. It also doesn't accelerate very strongly, even with the V8. I guess it's hard to get that battleship moving.
As far as I know the engine of all of the Ms except maybe the Special are identical. Maybe some of the parts have been moved that makes the devide not fit right. Not sure. Maybe Otto can chime in on that one.
According to the K&N site they do not make a FIPK kit for the 300M. I wonder if we can just make holes in the aircharger system and duct tape the sensor hoses in place (grin).
Scotian, As I remember you're from MN too right? The other day I was getting on 35E northbound from yankee doodle and I saw a white 300M, it was either a 99 or 00 but he had the spoiler, tinted windows, gold treatment (Badges and whatnot in gold), Borla exahust and almost all lettering removed. He had a custom lisc plate that read "RT 300M" Kinda made me laugh, I didn't get a chance to get in front and show off what duals look like as I was getting on to the freeway, just wondering if we have a lurker here or if he is a internet "challenged" car enthusist.
The 300M's engine is the same for 99-2002. Even the special. Otto can confirm this but I think only the sofware is different for the specials engine. The 300M 3.5 is a speed density setup, there's no Mass Air Sensor(MAS) There are no emssions componts that are attached to the intake hose from the air box, to the TB except that little breather hose. I think that is not emissions related too. It may only be a little hose to draw air into the engine for it to warm up faster. My Ford trucks engine has the same hose attached to almost the same point on that engine as the 300M. The manual says that is what it's for.
I rented one of those for Thanksgiving. I asked for a midsized from Hertz, & a town car is what I got. Big isn't it Felt to me like rideing a big pillow. Could sleep for hours in that thing. Mine also had that Hertz fake Nav system in it. The little Magellin unit. I think it was called Hertz anywhere? or something like that.
There are no sensors in airbox plumbing, and the throttle body only has a throttle position sensor (and an idle valve); everything else must be inside the intake manifold.
The engine breather hose is to suck air into the crankshaft so it can be spit out through the PCV valve, I believe, but I did notice oily residue in the stock air plenum, which might mean it spits out stuff from the engine at times as well, which would make it an emissions thing.
I don't know why K&N would make two versions of the same thing that differ only by a hose nipple...
So, based on what you guys (scotian & fuzzy) are saying, the "illegal" product may be perfectly legal in the M because of the way the engine and emissions system is set up? Scotian, when you replaced your intake tubes did you have to find a way to reattach the breather hose? Was there any magic to it? It seems to me that if that's the only hose attachment between the airbox and the throttle body, it should be pretty easy to modify the aircharger to accomodate the breather tube. Thoughts??
If that's the case it may provide a manufactured alternative to the "franken-intake" that many have put together.
there is no FIPK for the application only filtercharger.i would have to believe the only reason they make didnt call it a FIPK is for lack of time or research to make it pass emmisions. this is apparent because they didnt even research all the models it fits! im sure there are hundreds of items we dont even know works on our M`s unless people like all of us try.
i think your probably right! i bet its only ileagle on the intrepid,and never even been tested on the M! guess we will have to try it and then go thru the emmision testing to find out. my problem is mine doesnt get tested again till oct 2003.
maybe if we all send emails to K&N,and ask them to test one they will accomodate us? i found a price of 227.47 shipped priorty. anyone beating that price?
I sent you the quote (I think) but I haven't been able to get any pictures. Beshi called me to ask me about the "order" and I told them that we're working on the sizes & colors. I keep meaning to e-mail you but I get sidetracked. unfortunately I don't think I'll be able to get over there for pictures, but I'm sure everyone knows what heavyweight crew sweatshirts in medium gray and navy look like.
I'll email you the price quote again. Check your GTE account.
I really doubt that it's legal on the M. If you look at the webpage that describes the aircharger itself, there is a big paragraph at the bottom saying this is not for sale on emissions controlled cars (i.e. all of them on the road
quote: Aircharger Kits are NOT legal for sale or use on pollution controlled vehicles. These kits replace the original air filter box and may eliminate or defeat some emission controls.
Drove past your plant yesterday. I waved during the whole time I was passing but didn't see anyone waving back so I guess it wasn't your shift I'm building an electrical substation for the new A.B. Hopewell Dist. Centre just around the corner from you at Hwy 7 and Airport Rd. Just wondering if those rows and rows of special "M's" are visible from the road. I have to go back to the jobsite on Monday and want to spend 1/2 hour with my tongue stuck through (or too) the fence drooling. As I have worked on the power substation at your plant I guess I could get through security by telling them I had to check something out and just drive around until I found the specials or even better, perhaps I could just tell security that ottowrkr said it was O.K for me to take a look around.
on1wheel - I'm not sure I want to take a $230 risk as a guinea pig, but I'd sure consider getting one if I knew it would work. I'm not too concerned about the emissions stuff because my guess is that these engines run real efficiently anyway, AND we can always put the old intake back on when we go in for inspection. My bigger concern is that the "hose" that scotian discussed contributes to the performance of the engine, and NOT connecting it will hurt performance or gas mileage.
Maybe a few emails will help. They obviously have determined through some kind of testing that the unit will fit the M. The site that roger posted listed that part for a 3.5 litre Intrepid. That tells me that it will work with the ENGINE, but how can we be sure that it fits under the hood correctly? Is the intrepid laid out the same under the hood? I also can't tell if that part comes with the replacement air box or not. Seems we need to ask K&N some questions.
Splatt - I agree with on1wheel. That "not legal" language applying to all cars is a general disclaimer that is necessary because those systems do not include any connectors for any hoses or other emission devices. I'm sure the degree of illegalness (ok, I know being a little illegal is like being a little pregnant, but hear me out..heh) differs by engine. It's possible that because of the placement and type of emission control on the M that there is very little, if any, degradation of emission quality. K&N probably just hasn't bothered to do any detailed testing on that because of their position that's illegal on all emission controlled cars.
On the M, if you make sure the engine breather is directly connected to your filtered air system, while it may not be "legal", it will not change your emissions -- a distinction that only a bottom-feeding bureaucrat would care about. And for a manufacturer to make their setup "legal," I'm sure much $$$ and red tape is involved.
Leaving the hose open to the air would allow either dirt to enter your crankcase (bad) or perhaps oily stuff to escape into the atmosphere (so what), or if plugged would screw up your emissions system and your engine would undoubtedly suffer (bad).
My wife has a 2000, PHG w/16" tires & wheels. We want to go skiing over the holidays, so I picked up some cable chains, but the owners manual says that chains should not be used on this car.
Any one have experience with chains? Any thoughts?
I am still having problems with my '99 300m .took it in to Budget car sales in April they said they did the TSB work that relates to the water leak in the front passenger area..since it hasnt rained since then no real way of knowing that they fixed it but it still leaks now they are saying take it to the dealer..wonder who is paying for that (88,000 miles) me... you would think that for $30,000 chrysler would build a car that would be water tite..By the way no water in the trunk area as suggested here before..any other ideas?
Hi gang...(99LHS owner here)...Just bought a new 2001 (leftover) Concorde for my wife. Since it is a leftover, the dealer did not have any 2001 brochures left. I like to have the brochure for each new car I buy (good info and specs.)
Does anyone have a 2001 General Chrysler brochure or 2001 Concorde (preferred) brochure to spare? I will pay priority mail postage.
sdmike and other 300M'ers The trip computers on the new cars continually sample the rate of fuel flow and the speedometer speed and miles traveled. The reading you get is miles per hour divided by fuel flow, which gives instant economy (ECO). Thats why when you floor it it drops to 4-5 MPG and when you are coasting downhill with no pressure on the gas it can go to 99 MPG. The AVG ECO is the total distance traveled (since the reset button was pushed) divided by the fuel flowed since the reset button was pushed. The DTE (distance to empty)samples your last bunch of instant economy with the fuel flowed since the reset button was set. I have verified this by leaving the DTE setting on after a bunch of stop and go city driving and then pulled onto a rural road and held a steady 45-55 MPH the DTE figure actually goes up! The figures for AVG MPG are pretty close, DTE is usually not too close as I actually drove until it said 2 miles to empty and it never took near the actual capacity in the tank to fill up. Probably a saftey factor. When I rented Lincolns and Caddilacs (upgraded by being nice to the counter people)they usually seemed to read optimistically until you filled them up again before turning them in.
I hear ya'. I'm in the same boat as you are with the 0% financing ending January 4th. I'm in NJ so my chances are "slightly" better of seeing my Special before you do your SPecial but not by much. I certainly hope Chrysler isn't holding the cars on purpose to make sure these don't get the special financing rate. That would really stink.
Tell you what... It must be a beautiful sight of all those completed Specials just sitting in the lot there though.
Does anyone know of any sources of the wood trim that one can purchase in sheets? I have contacted Josiha tree, autobodytrim and some of the ebay sellers but they all want to do the cutouts for about $90. I just need a blank for the radio trim with no cutouts.
If you're lurking out there, I'd like some feedback on how you like your new TL-S. A lot of the TL owners are somewhat biased towards their cars (just like we 300M owners and other models), so I'd like to hear your comparison as you're the only person I've seen on the boards who has owned both. Being that the TL-S is a new model w/upgraded power, stereo, and acoustics, I imagine it's a better car than the M. But I'd be very interested to hear your impressions of one vs. the other. 3 of my family members own Acuras so I need some ammo for my holiday discussions on cars with them. BTW, your TL is a real beauty, as shown in your earlier link. Best of luck w/it.
Great info. Thanks. I suspect potential liability of running the fuel tank too low, stirring up sediment, and clogging injectors makes them underestimate the DTE.
Yes, it has better feeling leather on the seats and steering wheel.
TL-S is MUCH quieter.
You also get the HID headlights, which are quite nice.
Center armrest in TL-S is adjustable. Center console has two compartments.
TL-S has a much smoother operating automatic transmission at lower speeds. 300M used to not know what gear to be in, especially in traffic. I used to control it with AutoStick all the time to avoid gear searching.
Acceleration from 0 to 60 to 90 is a blast.
Brakes are very good.
But you lose 6 speakers and a whole bunch of watts in the stereo (300M has 11 speakers and 360 watts, TL - 5 speakers and not as many watts)
300M has the feature that moves the driver's seat a couple of inches back when the key is taken out of ignition. TL does not have that.
300M has the trip computer, TL (non-NAV) does not have that
300M's door locking can be reprogrammed, TL does not offer any programming
300M has separate courtesy lights for each rear passenger. TL has a centrally mounted dome light
300M has auto headlights, TL does not
300M has feature that automatically turns on headlights if you have been using wipers for a few seconds. TL does not have this.
TL's trunk has gooseneck hinges. All my previous cars had struts. I like struts better.
TL's rear seats don't fold. But the pass-through is lockable and there is a valet key that can't open the pass-through or the trunk. 300M does not have a valet key.
300M turns quite nicely and can fishtail or drift. TL turns quite nicely, but my impression is that when it gets too tight TL continues trying to grip whereas 300M will drift a bit. End result - TL loses momentum while 300M makes the turn. Maybe TL needs wider tires (stock are 215 vs 300M's 225)
My impression is that past 90 mph, 300M accelerates better. Sometimes my TL feels moody and is not very willing to downshift and go faster at 90. Even if I try to downshift it with the SportShift. 300M does very well in 3rd at 90 and has a strong pull. 300M has no problem downshifting with AutoStick from 4th to 3rd at 90 and stays in 3rd up to 110+mph. I have been able to keep up with RX-7 in 3rd and 4th when I had my 300M. TL-S does not seem to want to downshift from 4th to 3rd at 90. "3" flashes for a second and then returns to "4". 4th gear is not very aggressive, there seems to be little difference between 4th and 5th.
Overall I like TL-S a lot but keep thinking about my 300M.
I'm new here and located in the (not so cold and snowy - this year anyway) state of "Minnesnowta", I'm patiently awaiting delivery of my new 300M Special. Our friend "Otto" has been keeping me informed of its progress and let me know that it received its coat of silver paint yesterday. So the birth announcement should be coming shortly.
This looks like a pretty cool place to hang out and shoot the breeze (heck you even let Acuras hang around! LOL!).
I know this probably isn't a very appropriate comparison...since the MSRP's of both vehicle's is way off. However, given that I continue to see the base Caddy's discounted to the point that it's within 4-8K of the 300M, it's potentially starting to make sense to consider the Caddy from a price point of view.
Personally, I'm still leaning towards the 300M whereas my wife leans towards the Deville. Even though the Caddy's are practically being given away...it seems like the 300M is still better value.
Therefore, I've come to this board seeking help convincing me towards either the Deville or 300M. I guess what I'm looking for is key points on either side with respect to styling, interior, reliability & build quality, value, engine/handling, etc...
Thanks again and looking forward to all your responses.
sdmkie - so your a little pregnant, huh? :-D Actually I'd be very interested if someone would get the KN part then do an emmissions. I'd do it, but the emissions test is like $75 pass/fail. I actually have one coming up in May (every year here in PA but don't really want to fork that much more...
DTE - I've always found it screwy at the low end. It says 10-12mi and I put in 13-14 gal. Even at the 18mpg it says I'm getting were talking 40-50mi. I don't like it at 0 - even though I know it's 1-2 gal, I don't trust it. However, since I drive 35+mi to work each way, I fill up at half full. It's about 1/4 tank round trip so leaving work with a low tank can be very dangerous
Comments
So mike: what is your mileage in your M seeing the town car gets better mileage. I only average 17.2 in 60 hwy-40 city driving--not too good--could be the gas in NE and those idling stops at Dunkin Donuts :-)
SDmike--I bet that Town Car is lots quieter than the M--like driving in your recliner in your living room.
Mats: I bought the premium mats at mat4less.com. Got fronts only--$35 with free shipping--nice heavy mat with raised edges--coverage is just fair, but as long as your careful it should work out fine. It looks great in the M and the color-black--matches the agate just fine--you can also get tan or grey--I believe its the same price--such a deal!
http://www.knfilter.com/aircharger.htm
http://www.knfilters.com/fipk.htm
How does the K&N FIPK differ from the K&N Aircharger, anyway? They both seem to be one and the same -- a replacement tube, a cone filter at the end of the tube, and a plastic wall to keep some of the hot underhood air out of the filter. Assuming they both connect the engine breather hose, they are completely identical, at least for the 300M.
I'm most interested in if they have a special molded piece that connects directly to the throttle body.
Search for Wheelskins to find a place to order from.
I'm thinking this is probably usable with the Lister tube I already have installed
"mass air sensor" which hence may remove some of the emmison control devices while the FIPKis just attached to the existing mass air filter and straightens out the air flow. The FPIK documenation states that it is street legal and does not void warranty while the air charger states that it is not street legal and will remove some emmission controls.I may be reading it wrong but thats how I see it.
the FIPK is fully street legal and does not void the warranty.
the filtercharger is "off-road or racing" use,and will void warranty!
IMOP..just change it out before services.
my warranty is already dead anyhow!
this info came strait from k&n.
if both were available for a 300m, devices would look exactly the same except for the extra nipples for emissions hoses.
neither one out performs the other!
the only thing they could no say was if it fits the '99.it is only listed for the '00,and '01.
i dont believe their are any differences between any years except color and chrome are there?
have a wonderful day! andy
I'm honestly not that impressed by the Town Car. Aside from the lack of exhaust noise it doesn't seem that much quieter. Maybe it's because I always have the radio cranked up in Big Red. heh. However, the car feels like it's floating rather than driving...which I don't really like. It also doesn't accelerate very strongly, even with the V8. I guess it's hard to get that battleship moving.
I rented one of those for Thanksgiving. I asked for a midsized from Hertz, & a town car is what I got. Big isn't it
The engine breather hose is to suck air into the crankshaft so it can be spit out through the PCV valve, I believe, but I did notice oily residue in the stock air plenum, which might mean it spits out stuff from the engine at times as well, which would make it an emissions thing.
I don't know why K&N would make two versions of the same thing that differ only by a hose nipple...
If that's the case it may provide a manufactured alternative to the "franken-intake" that many have put together.
this is apparent because they didnt even research all the models it fits!
im sure there are hundreds of items we dont even know works on our M`s unless people like all of us try.
my problem is mine doesnt get tested again till oct 2003.
i found a price of 227.47 shipped priorty.
anyone beating that price?
I'll email you the price quote again. Check your GTE account.
quote: Aircharger Kits are NOT legal for sale or use on pollution controlled vehicles. These kits replace the original air filter box and may eliminate or defeat some emission controls.
oh well... here's to a fipk
I'm not sure I want to take a $230 risk as a guinea pig, but I'd sure consider getting one if I knew it would work. I'm not too concerned about the emissions stuff because my guess is that these engines run real efficiently anyway, AND we can always put the old intake back on when we go in for inspection. My bigger concern is that the "hose" that scotian discussed contributes to the performance of the engine, and NOT connecting it will hurt performance or gas mileage.
Maybe a few emails will help. They obviously have determined through some kind of testing that the unit will fit the M. The site that roger posted listed that part for a 3.5 litre Intrepid. That tells me that it will work with the ENGINE, but how can we be sure that it fits under the hood correctly? Is the intrepid laid out the same under the hood? I also can't tell if that part comes with the replacement air box or not. Seems we need to ask K&N some questions.
Splatt - I agree with on1wheel. That "not legal" language applying to all cars is a general disclaimer that is necessary because those systems do not include any connectors for any hoses or other emission devices. I'm sure the degree of illegalness (ok, I know being a little illegal is like being a little pregnant, but hear me out..heh) differs by engine. It's possible that because of the placement and type of emission control on the M that there is very little, if any, degradation of emission quality. K&N probably just hasn't bothered to do any detailed testing on that because of their position that's illegal on all emission controlled cars.
On the M, if you make sure the engine breather is directly connected to your filtered air system, while it may not be "legal", it will not change your emissions -- a distinction that only a bottom-feeding bureaucrat would care about. And for a manufacturer to make their setup "legal," I'm sure much $$$ and red tape is involved.
Just cut a hole and slap that elbow on:
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/ViewPhoto?u=1280646&a=13764864&p=55197600&f=0
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/ViewPhoto?u=1280646&a=13764864&p=56499581&f=0
Leaving the hose open to the air would allow either dirt to enter your crankcase (bad) or perhaps oily stuff to escape into the atmosphere (so what), or if plugged would screw up your emissions system and your engine would undoubtedly suffer (bad).
Any one have experience with chains? Any thoughts?
I wonder if I could build a tiny cone filter for that little air intake tube.
You can get tiny air filters, for example:
http://www.tognottisautoworld.com/Products/K-Nfilter/vent.asp
However, since it seems as though oily stuff sometimes exists our engine breather hose, I don't think we want to use these.
I'd like to purchase the car the car before the special financing ends.
maybe you can check with the guys in dispatch.
thanks, ron
p.s. how long does it take to ship a car from the plant to California?
Does anyone have a 2001 General Chrysler brochure or 2001 Concorde (preferred) brochure to spare? I will pay priority mail postage.
Thanks!
Tom
The trip computers on the new cars continually sample the rate of fuel flow and the speedometer speed and miles traveled. The reading you get is miles per hour divided by fuel flow, which gives instant economy (ECO). Thats why when you floor it it drops to 4-5 MPG and when you are coasting downhill with no pressure on the gas it can go to 99 MPG. The AVG ECO is the total distance traveled (since the reset button was pushed) divided by the fuel flowed since the reset button was pushed. The DTE (distance to empty)samples your last bunch of instant economy with the fuel flowed since the reset button was set. I have verified this by leaving the DTE setting on after a bunch of stop and go city driving and then pulled onto a rural road and held a steady 45-55 MPH the DTE figure actually goes up! The figures for AVG MPG are pretty close, DTE is usually not too close as I actually drove until it said 2 miles to empty and it never took near the actual capacity in the tank to fill up. Probably a saftey factor. When I rented Lincolns and Caddilacs (upgraded by being nice to the counter people)they usually seemed to read optimistically until you filled them up again before turning them in.
Tell you what... It must be a beautiful sight of all those completed Specials just sitting in the lot there though.
I have contacted Josiha tree, autobodytrim and some of the ebay sellers but they all want to do the cutouts for about $90. I just need a blank for the radio trim with no cutouts.
If you're lurking out there, I'd like some feedback on how you like your new TL-S. A lot of the TL owners are somewhat biased towards their cars (just like we 300M owners and other models), so I'd like to hear your comparison as you're the only person I've seen on the boards who has owned both. Being that the TL-S is a new model w/upgraded power, stereo, and acoustics, I imagine it's a better car than the M. But I'd be very interested to hear your impressions of one vs. the other. 3 of my family members own Acuras so I need some ammo for my holiday discussions on cars with them. BTW, your TL is a real beauty, as shown in your earlier link. Best of luck w/it.
Priority should be about $3.20 last time I checked.
Is it the Concorde-specific brochure??
Thanks!
Tom
Yes, it has better feeling leather on the seats and steering wheel.
TL-S is MUCH quieter.
You also get the HID headlights, which are quite nice.
Center armrest in TL-S is adjustable. Center console has two compartments.
TL-S has a much smoother operating automatic transmission at lower speeds. 300M used to not know what gear to be in, especially in traffic. I used to control it with AutoStick all the time to avoid gear searching.
Acceleration from 0 to 60 to 90 is a blast.
Brakes are very good.
But you lose 6 speakers and a whole bunch of watts in the stereo (300M has 11 speakers and 360 watts, TL - 5 speakers and not as many watts)
300M has the feature that moves the driver's seat a couple of inches back when the key is taken out of ignition. TL does not have that.
300M has the trip computer, TL (non-NAV) does not have that
300M's door locking can be reprogrammed, TL does not offer any programming
300M has separate courtesy lights for each rear passenger. TL has a centrally mounted dome light
300M has auto headlights, TL does not
300M has feature that automatically turns on headlights if you have been using wipers for a few seconds. TL does not have this.
TL's trunk has gooseneck hinges. All my previous cars had struts. I like struts better.
TL's rear seats don't fold. But the pass-through is lockable and there is a valet key that can't open the pass-through or the trunk. 300M does not have a valet key.
300M turns quite nicely and can fishtail or drift. TL turns quite nicely, but my impression is that when it gets too tight TL continues trying to grip whereas 300M will drift a bit. End result - TL loses momentum while 300M makes the turn. Maybe TL needs wider tires (stock are 215 vs 300M's 225)
My impression is that past 90 mph, 300M accelerates better. Sometimes my TL feels moody and is not very willing to downshift and go faster at 90. Even if I try to downshift it with the SportShift. 300M does very well in 3rd at 90 and has a strong pull. 300M has no problem downshifting with AutoStick from 4th to 3rd at 90 and stays in 3rd up to 110+mph. I have been able to keep up with RX-7 in 3rd and 4th when I had my 300M.
TL-S does not seem to want to downshift from 4th to 3rd at 90. "3" flashes for a second and then returns to "4". 4th gear is not very aggressive, there seems to be little difference between 4th and 5th.
Overall I like TL-S a lot but keep thinking about my 300M.
I'm new here and located in the (not so cold and snowy - this year anyway) state of "Minnesnowta", I'm patiently awaiting delivery of my new 300M Special. Our friend "Otto" has been keeping me informed of its progress and let me know that it received its coat of silver paint yesterday. So the birth announcement should be coming shortly.
This looks like a pretty cool place to hang out and shoot the breeze (heck you even let Acuras hang around! LOL!).
I know this probably isn't a very appropriate comparison...since the MSRP's of both vehicle's is way off. However, given that I continue to see the base Caddy's discounted to the point that it's within 4-8K of the 300M, it's potentially starting to make sense to consider the Caddy from a price point of view.
Personally, I'm still leaning towards the 300M whereas my wife leans towards the Deville. Even though the Caddy's are practically being given away...it seems like the 300M is still better value.
Therefore, I've come to this board seeking help convincing me towards either the Deville or 300M. I guess what I'm looking for is key points on either side with respect to styling, interior, reliability & build quality, value, engine/handling, etc...
Thanks again and looking forward to all your responses.
Sean.
DTE - I've always found it screwy at the low end. It says 10-12mi and I put in 13-14 gal. Even at the 18mpg it says I'm getting were talking 40-50mi. I don't like it at 0 - even though I know it's 1-2 gal, I don't trust it. However, since I drive 35+mi to work each way, I fill up at half full. It's about 1/4 tank round trip so leaving work with a low tank can be very dangerous