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Is the company you bought your YK 420's in Michigan a Discount Tires store? Are you satisfied? Thanks
Had them put on a week ago. Been pouring here, and got a chance to use them in the rain. I'm very impressed with the handling, but more impressed with the sound. They are much, much quieter than the mxv4+s I had (I can hear the wind now
p.s. in case pat stops by - this time I have nothing to do with that company. Just a satisfied customer
Geezer300M
As I do every morning, I put my daughter on the school bus. I then follow the bus to the end of our lane, where we both hang a right to continue our days. This morning, the bus is signalling for the right, as usual. I am about a car length's behind. Suddenly, bus backup lights go on. I give a quick look to mirrors and a head turn around to be sure no one/thing is behind me(rearweard visibility not one of the M's strong points) and turn back forward. Too late. My road ends with a steep descent onto Main Street, so the bus driver gunned the diesel to back up the hill. And over the hood of my M. What a horrible sound of the hood being crushed and what a horrible sight as the big black bumper of the bus is heading right towrads my face! Luckily, I think my now wedged under M stopped the bus' progress! No one was hurt, THANK GOODNESS! My daughter was smiling through the window at her seat as I approached the bus door. Her beautiful face helped ease my pain as the paperwork tap dance began.
It appears to be just the hood and front fender, no damage to engine or components... I hope. No airbag deployment as I don't think the bumper was ever actually struck, nor are the healight covers cracked!
My first accident since I moved to MA in '91 and my first since the late 80s. 40 months and 40,000+ relatively care-free miles. Car still looked almost brand spankin' new as I regularly wash and wax. Not to mention I paid it off this summer. So sad...
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
I finally did get the survey and filled it out honestly. I didn't slam them, but did give middle to low marks on some items. A few weeks go by and I get a worried call from the salesman. "I thought we were OK, why did you give me bad marks?"
Sounds like anything under a perfect rating must endanger their trip to Hawaii or something.
You know, now that its all coming back, they may have been on spl. at D.T. but they were $90. at Tire Rack.
geezer
I would also consider the safety of those kids on the bus, do you really want to have this type of driver driving your kids?
Do I need a 4 wheel or a 2 wheel alignment?
http://www.manassaschrysler.com/Chrysler/290073.html
As far as local sales go, about every dealer in the state (it's kind of small) has 1 2002 M left, and a few new 2003's. The, um, "less than stellar" 5* who worked on our M weekly has had a fully optioned 2002 Deep Sapphire & Taupe/Slate Special for about 5 months, just sitting there on the lot. I actually just got an email from a sales guy there (have no idea how or why) saying that they have both this M and a new silver 2003 "regular" M on order, and if I was interested in either.
Another dealer an hour away also has one left, and it's a beaut. Inferno Red & Lt. Taupe 2002 M with all options except PHG. Wonder if it's that option that's keeping it from selling? They've been advertising $5,000 off this particular car too, for a few weeks.
Otto, all I can do is tell you to hope and pray that someone starts buying these cars and giving you some work. But, in all honesty, I do not think it will ever happen until the LX cars which may be too late themselves. Why? Yet again, advertising. Anymore, all I see is commercial after commercial for the new HD Rams, and they're quite goods ads to boot. I have never seen a Concorde commercial, a 300M commercial, or an Intrepid commercial in over 6 months at least. No print ads either. What's really depressing is that when I do, it's just a 0.3 second shot of a silver 300M Special in a commercial for new rebates or 0% financing.
That "Amish" commercial was quite good, and they should air it more. A recent radio clip is also quite telling, "Experience power in a road-hugging 300M". But what I'd really like to see, is something like a stoplight scene, a new 03' black Special in one lane and some other "less impressive" sport sedan in the other. Rev the engine and give some good audio of the exhaust growl, before racing off the line, then going to clips of the car flying around a race track or through some curvy mountain passes (i.e. Acura). They can do it for the Ram, why not a gorgeous sport sedan?
Best of wishes, but I'd suggest finding a good hobby in the next two years. You'll have quite a bit of free time on your hands....
"I'd suggest finding a good hobby in the next two years"
Two years ? we only have 10 months left to build the LH cars, then its the LX and lots of overtime.
In primetime I see the Amish one from time to time and also the all Chrysler products on the road commercial. But I seldom see local dealer ads
I can imagine how you feel by remembering the morning I opened my garage door and found that the bicycle rack (with 2 bikes)had fallen on my M.
Hopefully the body shop that repairs yours will do as nice a job as the 5* dealer's shop that fixed mine. The paint match is still perfect a year later and I've almost forgotten it ever happened.
Good luck!
Lynn Flowers
McKinney, Texas
So I've pretty much decided to order another 300M to replace my current one come the end of February when I have to turn in my current one.
Interestingly, the deal on a 2003 300M is _better_ than what I got on the 2000. Less money per month with the same amount down, even though the residual value has gone from 52% to 42%. There looks to be about $2500 coming in between lease incentive and customer loyalty.
I ordered my 2000 M with just one option; full size spare. I'm considering ordering my 2003 with just the luxury option package (which includes FS spare). Some questions:
1) What tires does the 2003 M come with? They've ditched the Goodyears, haven't they?
2) Opinions on the EVIC console?
3) Tire pressure sensors; useful or gadget? I'm interested because I've had some trouble with a rim suddenly deciding to lose some pressure once or twice.
4) What's the impact of the tire pressure sensors on tire rotation?
5) What about the wood-grain on the steering wheel? It looks a little odd, seems to feel OK, what's the consensus? What about the wood-grain in general?
I don't want the stiffer suspension that would come with the PHP or Special, so I'm skipping those options. I don't like sunroofs; the light catches my glasses at a bad angle and causes glare. Are there any other options I ought to consider?
I figured I'd at least get a different color than the Steel Blue I'm driving now; seems like something ought to be different!
chrome wheels - I understand the new ones have a chromed plastic shell glued to the aluminum wheel, so I'd sure want to check them out up close before ordering them;
upgraded stereo - I like mine in my 2000, but lots of folks with newer M's have been complaining. Again, I'd want to hear both before I would order the option.
I'm pretty sure that they have ditched the Goodyears, and all new M's now come with some model of Michelin.
2. Not that much different than the standard, you simply just have a few more options and a tire pressure read-out.
3&4. Like I already mentioned, there are tire pressure monitors, and it is a cool safety gadget to have. Pretty much self-explanatory operation wise. Also, tire rotation does not change anything, the sensors will just read the pressure in whatever wheel is in a certain position. For example, the front driver's side sensor will always read the pressure of the wheel in that position, regardless if it's been rotated from the side or back.
5. Really like the woodgrain myself. Dresses things up a bit, and provides a nice "feeling" contrast to your hands, being able to go from the leather to the wood. A lot of M'rs have had problems with their all-leather wheels obtaining defects from melted spots or other things, so this might be another good reason to get the wood wheel.
6. Other options. I'd really suggest the chrome wheels because they really add a striking touch to the M's styling. Some don't like them, but they're much brighter and less plain jane. Also, the upgraded stereo can be a nice touch too, even if just for the very nice in-dash CD changer, that's now 6CD in the 2003's.
Colorwise, what about a vivid Inferno Red? Too hot? Onyx Green is quite nice, and would be a welcome step from Steel Blue, both being light colored metallics.
Good luck with the M!
"But I seldom see local dealer ads"
Mmmmm.......wonder what they're doing with that "hidden" advertising charge that all dealers supposedly collect one way or another? Maybe they use it to take the factory rep to dinner so they can keep their "5-STAR" rating since most of them don't earn it the "old fashioned way"!
fastdriver
The system is placed in detect mode and you walk around the car in a specific order with a magnet that's placed over the valve stem. As each sensor is located, the system beeps the horn and you move on to the next one.
Each transmitter has a distinct telltale otherwise how would the system know from what position the reading was coming from?
Upshot was the bumper was pushed in slightly (body shop can repair it) and the grill was smashed. So I'm getting the trenz billet grill (got $217 to replace the grill, trenz costs $160
beach - the tires on the non php are MXV4+, the php comes with the MXM4 (since they are V rated, the first are H rated).
As for the yk420s, I've had them about a week, and I like them a lot. Don't think I'll go all the way to love, but they handle just as well, if not better than the mxv4+s I had (hard to compare, since they've been almost bald for a while so the difference in handling from 2 yrs ago is a lot
1)As stated, the new M's come with Michelins.
2)The EVIC is nice in that it allows you to turn some kinda' cool features on and off (mirror tilt in reverse, lights on with wipers, etc) and also provides quite a bit of useful information.
3)Tire pressure sensors are useful in that if the pressure climbs above or drops below a factory preprogrammed level, a chime comes on, the display changes to the tire pressure monitor, and the offending wheel position(s) flash(es).
4)As Kosh stated, the wheels must be retrained after a rotation. Very simple and quick.
5)The wood wheel has a plastic or shellac coating which is very smooth, but still grippy. I liked it because it was easy to clean and never discolored as the leather does. The real wood looks great, IMO. It's too bad the Special does not offer it.
Also, get the top of the line stereo with the six CD changer. It may not sound as good as it once did, but you might as well get the best sound you can. I understand the '03s are not cursed with the same poor stereo as some of the '02s were.
Beach:Why do you offer opinions and statements made as fact about things that you know nothing about???
Love the Lux group, looks great w/ the Taupe trim. I added the Joshua Tree wood trim kit.
EVIC is a great feature, controls many programmable features.
I hate the "chrome" wheels on the '03...ugly & cheap looking.
I agree, go for the top end stereo.
Good luck!
My salesman was very knowledgeable about the Special. He knew every feature, how to program everything, what to watch out for, etc...I pretty much already knew how do to this stuff anyway but let him walk me through it just the same. I have to admit I was impressed that I had a car salesman that actually knew his product. A true rarity these days. I can't speak for dealers out of my area, but to talk to most of the clowns around here, you'd swear they must have been selling Electrolux last week, and stereos the week before.
That type of system doesn't care about tire location, it's just (unreliably I might add) looking for a wheel that's spinning faster than the rest. The system is based on the assumption that a tire with low pressure spins faster than the other wheels. That's fine if the rest of your tires are at normal pressure, but if they are all low the system doesn't know the difference. It's a simple and cheap system, but highly unreliable.
It's the ones that are looking to do as little as possible and still get a good survey that press the issue.
Some of the things you mention, like the delivery walk through and such are required as part of the performance evaluation as is the follow up phone call. So, regardless of how much the customer may know about the car, they still are required to do it.
As I said, the tire pressure monitors do attract me. It sounds like you folks are saying they do work and are reasonably accurate. The salesman showed me the magnet gadget to reset the tire locations after rotations, so I was expecting that. I just wondered how hard it was to do, and you've set my mind at ease.
I've not had a lot of trouble with the leather steering wheel on my M except that it gets dirty from my hands. That seems to be hard to get off even with the Zaino leather cleaner, but I've not tried scrubbing with a brush. There's also some wear at the seams. I was just thinking that the wood sort of defeats the advantage of leather when the wheel is cold or hot. But it does look pretty good.
The current stereo and wheels are fine for me, and the base ones on the 2003 are equivalent. After all, I'm almost 50 so I can't hear well anyway .
As for color, my steel blue is actually pretty dark (there was a 2002 parked right next to my car at the dealer and I had to do a double take on which was which). That dark a color tends to show dirt. White, of course, does the same. I'm thinking either almond or silver, as they should show dirt the least (well, less than really dark or white). I think I'll skip the Inferno Red cop car attention signal .
kosh_2258, you know your stuff .
Hey! What they said! What's "wrongo" with you giving these nice people here incorrecto info? They can get that for free at their "5-STAR"! Geez, can't depend on anyone these days! ;-))))))
300mspecial1-
I've been thinking about what you said about the tires 'flat spotting" from sitting on the dealer's lot so long. I know nothing about this, but I used to have a house in So. FL and kept a car in the garage there for MONTHS on end with no one driving it and I NEVER experienced a problem like this. I'd say it's either the tires or something else.
i guess time will tell.
fastdriver
I have a problem with this concept.
Since the tread circumference of a fully inflated tire is the same as that of a low pressure tire, each revolution will give xx" of travel for both, (assuming the bead isn't slipping on the rim). The low pressure tire will have a much larger footprint and flex the sidewalls a lot more, but rpm will be consistant with inflated tires.
Anyone care to explain what I'm missing here?
Lux Group- No brainer. Go For IT!!! Lots of goodies for relatively little $$. IMHO- the real wood makes the 300M look $10K richer.
Full size spare- Get it- if only as cheap insurance & an extra tire/wheel for rotations. My FS spare saved my [non-permissible content removed] after my accident a year ago when it took my 5* over 2 weeks to order a new (PHG) tire. At least I could drive my car normally while waiting for my body work appointment.
Stereo upgrade- personal choice. Base stereo is OK, so some advise saving the extra $$$ for an aftermarket system. Infinity Basslink subwoofer is a nice & cost-effective upgrade to either factory system (I've heard it & plan to add one to my M)
Chrome wheels- Skip these on the '03 (no offense Otto, but they are a step down from the razorstars on the 99-00 & the turbine chromes on my 01). Save your $$ for real aftermarket chrome.
PHG- personal choice. Not harsh at all, and very cost-effective with better tires/suspension/brakes for rel little $$.. but drive a PHG car before deciding. The notable improvement in handling and braking is at the expense of a bit of noise & ride comfort.
BTW- stock tires are now all Michelins. Goodyears were controversial so DC dropped them (although my father loved his & replaced them at 40+K with another set). IMHO- the base Michelin Energy's are garbage (too soft handling), which is one reason I went for the PHG with the wonderfully firm Pilot HXMXM4's. Yokohamas seem to have the best following for reasonably-priced aftermarket tires.
Special- flame me if you all must, but I would avoid the Special if only because I love the lux group so much!!! I can add my own dual exhaust & ground effects.
Jon
Modern tires, using fiberglass and/or steel belts are largely immune to this phenomenon.
I understand that these guys are required to do this stuff, but my salesman was pretty cool about it. Some of the stuff is just blatantly obvious and as he went through the car he mentioned it but graciously said he wouldn't insult my intelligence by actually explaining it step by step. We had talked about cars quite a bit through the sales process and he knew that I knew my way around the car. Other dealers have asked if I would like them to explain this feature or that and it usually turned out that they didn't have a clue. Of course, I would never have been rude enough to embarass them over it, so I'd just keep my mouth shut and let them do their thing. Other dealers had the checklist pre-filled-out and just asked me to sign it without ever even asking me if I understood the features or wanted anything explained. THAT takes some nerve. At those places you're just a deal to them and you cease to exist after you sign the paperwork and they don't mind proving it. I don't want or need to have my hand held, but a little professional courtesy doesn't hurt.
Hey, on the tire pressure system discussion above, could a rotational speed differential system also trip up a car's traction control? How do they separate those systems to prevent them from interfering with each other? Different sensors for different systems kinda like the traction control kicked in and oh by the way, I have a low tire too? If the system detects a drive wheel spinning at a faster rate than the others, the traction control system should interpret that as a loss of traction on that wheel and intervene. That's part of how the ASR system on my last Camaro worked. If it detected a loss of traction, it would do a one or a combination of 3 things: retart timing to reduce engine power, apply brake to the slipping wheel, or relax the throttle cable in which case you'd actually feel the gas pedal push your foot back. When the system first debuted in late '95 on the F-bodies, it would intervene too frequently and over the years, the engineers had tweaked it to allow a little more slip before the system would cut in and spoil your fun.
fastdriver,
I know what you mean. I kept my SS parked for weeks at a time without starting or moving it before it became my daily driver. That car came with Goodyear Eagle F1's mounted on 17x9 wheels. The tires were 275/40ZR17's and I NEVER had a flat-spot issue. The car had a perfectly smooth ride ALL the time. Prior to owning the SS, I owned an '87 Corvette with the Goodyear Gatorback VR50's. That car did suffer from some mild flat-spotting when I wasn't using it. It would shake noticeably for about 10 miles and then gradually smooth out and ride as smooth as glass afterwards. The dealer mentioned that the 18's on the Special would flat-spot if they sat a long time and since most of my shake problem has gone away now that the car is being driven every day, I can't find a fault in the argument. According to my dealer, my Special hit the lot late last Spring and sat until late September when I bought it. If I had to make a guess I would offer that there may be a relationship between the tire's aspect ratio, the tire compound/construction, and the length of time it sits still. I've also experienced flat-spotting with Pirelli's too.
Oh, and MXM4? Sorry bout that, I was wrong, but what the heck does Michelin have to use so many of the same letters, just one different?
Just trying to help, don't get mad. At least I wasn't "wrong" on everything. We had a 2000, not a 2001-03, so I just know what I've seen read, and used myself.
gary_berg- Have any other questions? Not that I'm eligible to answer, but still like to help. Really not sure on the chrome wheels. They still look quite nice, up close and fair, and made the few 2003's I've looked at even nicer. The plastic face on aluminum wheel is interesting though...
Nope sorry you were not, you said that if you rotated the tires and put the right front on the left rear and it leaked , the display would tell you that the left rear was leaking . NO ,it would still tell you that the right front was leaking because the computer was trained that the right front is the right front even if its in the trunk, or in the back seat.
jona57 said
"Chrome wheels- Skip these on the '03 (no offense Otto, but they are a step down from the razorstars on the 99-00 & the turbine chromes on my 01)"
None taken , I agree with you , the 03 chrome are not as nice as 99-02. The Special wheel is still my fav, now only if it came in Chrome
The '03 chrome wheels are gorgeous! Personally, I think they look like chrome Panasports...very cool! The plastic is not an issue either.
Check them out:
http://home.attbi.com/~fishkin1/wsb/html/view.cgi-photo.html--SiteID-256046.html
Stunning!
As I said, the ABS based system has been found to be very unreliable but it has the virtue (I guess) of being cheap and easy to piggy back off the ABS system. I imagine that there is some logic built into it to account for tire slippage, and it probably is disconnected when the ABS activates.
The true pressure system is more expensive and nearly 100% accurate.
300mspecial1,
I agree with what you're saying. A good salesman will abbreviate the walk around if he knows the customer is up on the vehicle. But like anything else in order to fairly evaluate performance there has to be guidelines and measurements. The delivery process is one of them. DC lays out the process the salesman has to follow at delivery. The customer feedback on survey and follow up is what they base their rating of the dealer on.
I think it's fair to say knowledgable buyers are a minority. From a good dealers perspective making it a habit to strictly follow the delivery guidelines for all customers makes it less likely that they will miss something. The process can always be shortened but if something gets missed, that can be nasty come survey time.
fedlawman: I'd have to see an '03 wheel up close in person to judge the plastic chrome issue, but as for style, I still think the razorstar is the best looking stock M wheel to date, and the '01/'02 a close second.
The distance between the centerline of the wheel and the road - the radius - is the key to this.
Smaller radius = faster rotational speed at the hub.
It must a very tiny bit as most radial tires typically have 2 layers of belting in the sidewalls and an additional 4 just below the tread. 6 steel belts aren't going to stretch much. But I suppose that's the only feasible answer.
> ...rear tires on a dragster when it starts off the line ...
Oh, yes, I've observed a drag slick get much "taller" from the centrifugal force of high RPM. Again, due to the steel belts, a passenger car tire can't do that.
>...bicycle that has a flat tire... you are essentially riding on the rim, which is a smaller circumference...
True, but the original thread stated "low pressure", not flat. So you'd still be riding on the tread, which is a fixed circumference. And that creates the effective fixed radius, a function of pi.
Thanks for answering guys, but I'm still a bit skeptical.
My new tires are being mounted next Wednesday. Looking forward to new brakes and rotors and v-rated Yokos on my y2k M with 42k on the dial.