Chrysler 300M

300mspecial1

Agreed, 100%

wire2

I've seen some that have been on the road quite a while and they still look very good. The actual surface is real chrome which is extremely hard and largely impervious to the elements. Apparently the process involves etching the plastic surface in acid to make it porous and somewhat conductive. Then it goes into a charged tank of copper sulphate to get a layer of copper plated on, then the chrome is electroplated on in another bath.

kosh_2258

Here's a link to a NHTSA white paper evaluating tire pressure monitoring systems.

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/vrtc/ca/capubs/tpms.pdf

You need Acrobat Reader to view it and if you don't have that you can download it here:

http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/main.html

Denverm has the right answer. When the tire deflates the effective radius between the hub center and the road surface decreases, increasing the rotational speed. Remember, the tire sidewalls fold and shorten the distance between tread and rim. The overall tire circumference doesn't change but the tire tread is displaced relative to the rim.

Page 17 discusses the testing of the rotational type monitoring system.

beach15

No, read again. What was said that, after a rotation, if you had moved a left rear wheel to the right front, for example, the monitor for the right front, would read the pressure in the tire that's on the right front. Maybe the grammar left some confused (no idea how?), all that was left out was the simple re-training. I was going on what a Chrysler rep. explained at an auto show last February, so I only forgot one step.

Question on the plant closings. This is due, mainly, to the cars that are already on the lot not selling, right? Plus, that, in addition, no one is ordering any 2003's either? I don't want to say it, but the LH's must be really growing un-popular for new buyers. I still think they can compete, but for whatever reason, no one new seems to care. They must just be unwanted.

I also must say though, that of all M's on the road, I see more 2002's than any other model year. Not sure why, but they seem to have sold quite well, at least in this state. 99's & 00's are also out there in abundance, but I rarely ever see any 01's. It's kind of hard with the 03's, because nothing much has changed visually.

splatt

If you think the michellins are quite, you should try the yokos I went from mxv4+s to the yoko yk420 and I can actually hear road noise now

denverm

Here's what you said, "Also, tire rotation does not change anything, the sensors will just read the pressure in whatever wheel is in a certain position. For example, the front driver's side sensor will always read the pressure of the wheel in that position, regardless if it's been rotated from the side or back."

From what others have said and you have now conceded as to the need to retrain, your statement is clearly inaccurate. It is not accurate to say that the front driver's side sensor will "ALWAYS" read the pressure in that position, regardless if it's been rotated." It is also not accurate to say that "tire rotation does not change anything." Tire rotation DOES change it, and you have to retrain with the magnet in order to get it correct again. It is also not accurate to say that the sensor will read the pressure in whatever wheel is in a certain position; the sensor reads the pressure in a certain wheel, regardless of which position it is in, the exact OPPOSITE of what you said.

To say that your post was accurate but just "left out" the simple step of retraining also isn't correct. You were clearly saying that the system works in such a way that no retraining would be necessary

Hey, I'm not criticizing you for being incorrect, 'cause I'm certainly not always correct in what I say. But for you to now say that others didn't read your post correctly and that what you said WAS correct is kinda like saying 2+2=5 . . . .

denverm

I replaced my original PHG tires (it's always hard to remember the Michelin designation: HX MXM4???) with the Yoko YK420's, and the Yokos were much quieter. I did not like how they handled, so I exchanged them after a couple days for Michelin Pilot Sport A/S. Interestingly, the Pilot Sports seem as quiet as the Yokos to me, and handle better than the OEM Michelins (haven't had a chance to drive them in snow yet). Too bad they're so damn expensive!

mrl859

Jona57:No flames, but how about some warm fumes? I came out of an '01 with luxo, PHG, etc. I DO miss the wood steering wheel and dash. Alot. But..the Special handles so much better, seems to accelerate and shift snappier, sounds cool out the tailpipeS, and looks so dang cool (especially with the HIDs-not a cheap upgrade), that I personally really don't mind the "cheap look of the interior (IMHO). A luxo option on the special would be great, but it defeats the purpose. How about a steering wheel and dash with REAL carbon fiber instead of that cheap looking plastic stuff? Coming out of an '84 SVO, numerous Turbo T-birds, and many Taurus SHOs, I find the stiff ride much more to my liking than the PHG. It is stiff, though. Potential buyers make no mistake:it's much firmer than the stock suspension or even the PHG.
Re:'03 plastic chrome wheels. I've not seem them in person, but in lawman's picture, they look like chrome model car plastic wheels. It hard to quantify, but they just have a different shine to them. I'll have to see them in person to commit. Are they as durable to impact as the chromed aluminum?
My $.02.

wire2

Boy, I love a good debate!

>When the tire deflates the effective radius between the hub center and the road surface decreases...

No, the APPARENT radius decreases. Effective radius is fixed by the constant length of 1 revolution of the tread stretched out (circumference)and Pi. Also constant, of course.
Low pressure increases the contact patch (footprint)of the tread to the road but can't change the distance a tire will travel in 1 revolution.
OK, here's a practical demo;
get out your old Hula-Hoop, mark a point on it and the floor and roll it along ,undistorted, for 1 revolution. It will have gone xxx inches.
Start again, this time press the top of the hoop down hard while rolling, which will reduce the MEASURED radius relative to the floor, and it will still travel xxx inches (the same distance)because the circumference hasn't changed.
A string tied in a loop will also prove this, no matter what the profile is.

>... the tire tread is displaced relative to the rim.

As above, 1 axle revolution will produce 1 tread revolution, no matter how distorted the path may become. Otherwise the tire bead will be forced to move along on the wheel lip.

Thanks for the link to the nhtsa paper. What I got from it is that speed difference detection of low tires is extremely unreliable. Which is why I'm questioning the principles involved.

ottowrkr

denverm- glad to see someone else also thinks this way after reading Beaches post.

mrl859 - I agree, if I was in the market ,the special would be the way yo go.

wire2

The fill tube diminishes in diameter just below the leaded gas nozzle limiter door. The idea is to have the gas stream occupy all the space in the tube and have the air/vapor pushed out the vent tube to the fume reclaim/charcoal cannister system, as opposed to fumes travelling back up alongside the gas in the fill tube. This is in keeping with mandated pollution law levels.
I find that fully inserting the nozzle, then drawing back out 2"-3" works well.

mrl859

In the hula-hoop scenario, the hoop's overall circumference does not alter, as you've illustrated. The question is, does the cirumference change on a tire as the tire inflates/deflates. I propose that is does because the cross section narrows/widens. The hula-hoop does not have a flexible sidewall. If we were to lay the hula hoop on it's side, place an unchangeable sized disc in the center that matches the inside diameter(like a wheel on a tire), and flatten the hula hoop, it's OUTSIDE diameter/circumference would change.

300michael

I do wish they would have the Lux package for the Special. Some of us like a little luxury with the sport type driving. As for extreams I went from a non-php to a sport suspension. The ride was firm, but now sometimes if feels like I have no suspension I have about 1" of travel on it now.

300michael

A while back I asked if anyone was interested in going to the Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep Route 2002 in Phoenix this December 7, 2002. Well the Eboxmail site went down a week ago and is showing no signs of comming back alive. So if you can Email me at Chrysler300N@$$$hotmail.com (omit the $$$) so I can figure out how many plan on attending. Don't forget to sign up for the for each of the drives on web.

wire2

>does the circumference change on a tire as the tire inflates/deflates. I propose that is does because the cross section narrows/widens.

If you were to cut the tread cleanly away from the sidewalls, then cut it into a single flat strip of tread you would have the fixed length. To apply the normal pressure and tension forces associated with a rolling tire would not noticeably change the length, considering you'd have to overcome the strength of 6 layers of steel belts under the tread.

> The hula-hoop does not have a flexible sidewall.

True, but that's irrelevant. The hula hoop is the equivalent of the tread only, not the whole tire. Attaching a circular strip of stretch material from the hoop to a smaller rigid steel hoop inside would be a comparable equivalent to a tire and rim. Even with that scenario, distorting the outside hoop won't change the distance of 1 revolution.

>...flatten the hula hoop, its OUTSIDE diameter/circumference would change.

Yes and no.
Height lost would exactly equal width gained. As an oval instead of a circle the distance around it (circumference) remains the same.
In a low tire, the apparent radius lost directly below the axle is gained just ahead of, and behind, where the tread is forced out to compensate, and gives the oversized contact patch.

fedlawman

splatt - I will consider the Yokohama's when it's time to replace the OEM rubber.

denverm - I'm not surprised the Yoko's felt "loose" compared to the PHG OEM tires. The YK420 is an all season touring tire designed for wet weather traction and a smooth quiet ride...much like the MXV4+. The MXM4 sacrifices some comfort and quiet for better handling, and is more appropriate for the PHG. I find the MXV4+ handling to be just the right balance between performance and comfort for the Chrysler...after all, it's not a sports sedan by any stretch of the imagination.

mrl859 - It's probably just the photo. The chrome look excellent. I've actually had more than a few strangers walk up to me and say, "nice rims."

mikeyjohn

I was over at my neighborhood Tim Hortons this afternoon and parked next to a black Intrepid RT, it had a hole in the roof, but it did not look like it had the auto-stick. Is this right? Also does the motor put out the same as the Lux M or does it have the limiter. I could see that the speedometer was rated at 200 Kms.Thxs Mike.

beach15

If it was a real R/T, then yes, it had Autostick. Also, if a real R/T, it has a 242hp version of the 300M engine under the hood, no limiter intact, in addition to the 300M's PHP suspension and brake bits.

But, it may have also been a new SXT (though you said it was an R/T). Basically a base Intrepid, but with the 242hp high-output engine of the R/T and 17" chrome wheels, but no autostick, and no upgraded suspension.

ottowrkr

http://www.casmiami.com/autoseek/chrysler/157073/157073.htm

ottowrkr

Was it an RT or SXT ? The sxt looks just like an RT without A/stick

kosh_2258

No problems here.

I see what you're saying in that the tire has a set circumference and as long as it stays attached to the wheel 1 revolution is 1 revolution regardless of distance between the hub center and the road surface. The wheel and tire just rotate less concentrically than before.

It's not quite the same as a small wheel running inside a large hoop. The small wheel will have to turn more revolutions than the larger hoop per one rev of the hoop.

But I'll disagree that a tire doesn't stretch when inflated. If that weren't true then a tire tread would always wear evenly regardless of inflation pressure. But we know that the center will wear faster than the edges if the tire is overinflated. So I think it's fair to say a tires circumference can vary depending upon inflation pressure. Steel belts not withstanding because a tire is a non rigid thing.

The only way to find out would be to measure a tire circumference uninflated, inflated to normal pressure, and overinflated and see if the circumference does change a measureable amount.

denverm

I think there's a relation between these two comments in your last post: "I find the MXV4+ handling to be just the right balance between performance and comfort for the Chrysler...after all, it's not a sports sedan by any stretch of the imagination."

I think folks may rightly differ as to which mix of performance and comfort is the "right balance." The mix for a non-PHG LH car on MXV or YK420 tires is different than the mix for a PHG car on Pilot tires. I prefer the latter, and having put 38K on my car, I DO think of it as a sports sedan. It may not be the best sports sedan available (I've never driven a BMW M5 but know it would trounce my M), but I've pushed this car on some winding roads, and its handling has stunned me. I happen to prefer and feel fortunate to drive an M that is slanted a bit more towards performance than comfort, but to each his own.

wire2

>... the center will wear faster than the edges if the tire is overinflated.

Good point, Kosh.

> measure a tire circumference .... if the circumference does change ...

Good idea!
I did just that.
My son had a pair of Michelin P195-75R14's from his car in the basement so I took some measurements; pressure versus circumference.
At 42 psi I got 79½"
At 35 - 79 7/16"
At 32 - 79 3/8"
Then at 30,25,20,15,10 and 5 psi it remained constant at 79 3/8"
So, yes, an overinflated tire forces the tread center out to wear faster, but no measurable change from 32 psi to 5.

denverm

You measured? Gee, it's lots more fun to try to figure things out without real world verification. Gallileo just messed everything up with his scientific method! ;-)

mikeyjohn

It said RT on the front fender, and the owner did not appear to be the type who would add stuff to his car. I did not see the shifter properly but it did not look like it had the auto stick, but again I might be wrong.

fedlawman

I grew up owning small sports cars (Alfa Romeo, CR-X Si, Sentra SE-R, Miata) so I know where you're coming from. However for me, if it's big, I want it to be a cruiser with good handling.

When I ordered "my" Concorde, I was actually considering LeSabre's and Crown Vic's, so in reality, I am thrilled to have a car that handles as well as the Chrysler does...which is to say very well indeed!

I suspect that the added handling you gain with more aggressive tires actually costs very little in added noise or discomfort. It's probably an easy trade-off.

easyrider300m

anyone that runs their M's tires at 42 pounds is looking for trouble---besides being beyond the recommended pressure for most tires, the tire would be prone to punctures form, would ride very hard and would wear in the center. The best pressure for the nonphp M is about 34 pounds.

wire2

>anyone that runs their M's tires at 42 pounds is looking for trouble---

No one advocated running 42 psi on an M, if you read my post 20924, it was strictly an experiment on an extra tire, a 14" at that.

ottowrkr

"It said RT on the front fender"

On the fender ? If you saw the sticker on the fender it is not a factory RT. All RT stickers get put on the front doors , just above the door moulding strip .

kosh_2258

Recall from basic suspension dynamics that in a turn the outside wheel has to turn faster than the inside because it's covering a greater distance? Did you notice in the NHTSA paper that there was mention of the fact some systems DIDN'T detect low pressure unless the vehicle was run through an S curve manuver? Perhaps these systems aren't looking for a faster rotation but an irregular rotation speed? A tire low on air might cause that as a vehicle shifts weight from side to side loading and unloading that wheel.

mikeyjohn

You are right, it was on the front door. I must have been having a mental break.I see that Beach added that the HP was the same in both cars. Is this correct?

gary_berg

OK folks, I was pretty sold on the lux group after I'd seen it, so now I'm 99% sold on it. I goes on the list, I'll just have to put up with the extra $10/month it may add to the lease. It might even impove residual value...

I'm going to have to check out the chrome wheels and such. I've been perfectly happy with the standard wheels on my 2000 300M, I think I need to see both types of wheels in person. Which I can't do until the dealer gets some 2003s in stock.

I'm looking to order a car and have it available around the end of February. What would you guess the best time to order would be? The dealer is guessing order in mid-December. He also said that customer orders are only scheduled during the first week of the month. I think he meant the scheduling process, not the build, but I'm sure you folks can give me the straight poop here.

Actually, my salesman also said he was going to follow some orders through and see when they got scheduled to be built. I'm a bit worried as I thought Otto talked about being on leave for several extra weeks in the next 3 months.

fastdriver

kosh_2258-

"I think it's fair to say knowledgable buyers are a minority."

Really? In this day and age and the info found on boards like this? I think it's the OTHER way around. Many salesman haven't the SLIGHTEST clue what they're selling OR talking about! All they want is for you to sign on the dotted line! They'll tell you anything. This holds true for many dealers, not just DC.

To all-

I say, do it the old fashion way- test the tire pressure youself once a month with a good gauge! It's only one more "gadget" to break.

fastdriver

Mmmm..... 2+2 doesn't = 5! Damn, I better go take a refresher course!

greasykid1

Have 2001 M without the Luxury package. Am interested in adding wood dash &/or steering wheel. What are the best kits? Appreciate any recommendations.

ottowrkr

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1870327725&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1

splatt

<<"I think it's fair to say knowledgable buyers are a minority." Really? In this day and age and the info found on boards like this? I think it's the OTHER way around. Many salesman haven't the SLIGHTEST clue what they're selling OR talking about! All they want is for you to sign on the dotted line! They'll tell you anything. This holds true for many dealers, not just DC.>>

And I don't think those two statements are opposites of each other either Most buyers are not very knowledgeable about the cars (there are those like us, but they are not as frequent as you'd expect) and the salesmen for the most part are idiots that just want to earn an extra buck...

300michael

since I run my tires at 40 They have a max pressure of 51 lbs. The wear is right on, it took a little getting used to after the LS tires running at 34lbs.

kosh_2258

Sure, people frequenting this board are knowledgable folks but in the entire consumer base of car buyers we're still a minority.

There are plenty of people who still buy a car because of something as simple as the name on the hood or the color of it or because the dealer sold them on a monthly payment.

Most people don't put any more thought into buying a car than they do buying a TV or a home computer. They shop a brand, or a price, or a size and understand very little about what it is they are buying or how it stacks up against the competition.

fastdog1

300M owners, pardon a request from an LHS owner, but we share most of the same problems. I am aware of all your discussions on a good replacement tire for the Goodyear Eagle LS. The Continential CH95 EchoPlus also is a recommended replacement tire for those of us with the 17" wheels. I have not seen much discussion here and wondered if anyone has tried these or had any thoughts. Best Regards.

trashman2

check out www.woodtrim.com. i just ordered for my 2000 300m

laurasdada

It's amazing how many I see, saddening me a bit each time...

I'm driving a Mercury Sable rental. Nice appliance. Semi-comfortable bench seat, no steering feel, grabby brakes and NOISY! Both engine and road noise. Almost makes my M seem Lexus-like! I'm sure that being a rental with 30k miles adds to some of my complaints, but it is quite a step down from my M.

It's been in the shop 3 days. I wonder if it misses me? To help assuage my pain, I waxed the evil wife's RX300. Lookin' good, she's happy.

Thanks to those who offered sympathy. I'll keep you posted as events unfold. Fastdriver: not sure if I can go to (I'll be PC here) YOU KNOW WHERE. I don't think I'm supposed to take the Merc out of state. Evil wife won't let me take the RX, for fear I'll "lose it!"

Enjoy the coming week, all.

fastdriver

laurasdada-

Hope your baby is better soon and comes back as good as she was before! I hate when that happens. Reminded me of when a girl in a van BACKED UP at a Stop sign and banged right in to Christine. I almost died because I JUST got the new tires and it was FINALLY going straight after 10 1/2 months! The alignment was the FIRST thing I thought of. Luckily there was just a minor scrape that could not be seen and the alignment was okay! ;-))

Guess you'll have to save the road trip for the 300 when you get her back. The air on the highway will make the paint dry better! Does that sound like a good excuse for a trip? ;-))

drpixel-

Thinking of you and yours. Hope things are getting better and that you're feeling better.

fastdriver

beach15

I feel for you on the Sable, we used a 00' Sable LS with 30k for our driver's ed car. Not bad, and had some relatively nice features, but I couldn't get over how trucklike it felt and sounded. That, and it's a Ford....

I can't imagine what seeing a school bus backing up on top of my freshly polised car's hood would be like...I'd probably ring the driver's neck, whether he could see me or not!

ajpiii

http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/view_page.pl?page_id=175340&page=7

300michael

Nice install. I do wish the GameCube was a better system, because the size is soo good. Is is set up so that you (when your stopped, wink, wink,) or your front passangers can play. Or did you hook up the monitors to work independantly?

ajpiii

Oh I would never use one of those "Bypass" modules wink wink...

The CVA-1006 sends the audio/video signal to one input of the TMX-R680A, and there is another input on the TMX so it can be used independantly with headphones if desired

easyrider300m

yes we know where you're going but we promise not to tell the car rental company---hope they dont read this board

I went to Mohegan Sun a couple days ago. Havent been there since a month after it opened. Wow---lots of changes and additions---MS is better than FW--more restaurants, lots of gaming areas, nice racebook room, and great entertainment. The free shows are great. I like the Cedars Bar for the steak kabobs and lobster roll but there is plenty of good places to eat at FW. But you definitely need a map at MS expecially if you've never been there.

And as a bonus, you get to drive in the 300M about 25 miles further to get to MS. With the CD's cranking, the extra time just flies by.

Did you take some pics of your accident? We want to see before and after photos.

EZ

easyrider300m

I like the idea of using that lister tube---that way you are assured of getting good cool are for the intake. I assume you are using a K&N or equivalent for the air filter.

So where did you purchase it? Or did you build it form scratch? Someone should make an assembled lister tube for our M's and sell them to the M owners here. Would save other members lots of time and aggravation and would be profitably to the supplier.

EZ

toms99

Car buying is, and always has been, more than just cold, calculated knowledge and comparisons.

I bought my 99LHS basically on impulse. It had just been introduced, I saw one on the Dealer's lot that I pass on the way to work, and I bought it. There were virtually no reliability data way back then, and I didn't even test drive any other car!

And yes, I thought about all the reasons not to buy a car in the first model year. So I leased for the first 3 years, figuring that if it was a lemon, I could just had in the keys at lease end. Turned out that other than a couple of window motors, after 3 years I had no trouble, I loved the car, and my residual was a couple of grand less than market value. So I bought it, and have no regrets.

Here's a good way to look at car buying: Ever see used car ads in the newspapers? Ever see those ads thaat say "reliable transportation"? Heck, that's a red flag that the car looks like a piece of #@#$ ! Many folks steer clear of ads with that notice. But the car may very well be reliable transportation. And when all else is said and done, what is the major function of a car?

So a car may be the only consumer product whose ad is rejected for proclaiming that it fulfills its major purpose! That's why buying a car is never a clear-cut decision based on statistics......

easyrider300m

The first day the PT cruiser arrived in the showroom I showed up with check in hand to put a deposit one. I test drove it and found the engine power was lacking. Also didnt like the interior noise level or cheap looking console and dash area. Then I took another look at the M and fell in love. Still in love after two and a half years.

silver 2000 300M loaded except php
Drive=Love
Easyrider300M