Chrysler 300M

cebteb

Looking for input as to whether or not I have a more serious problem than it seems, a common quirk, or no problem at all.

A couple of weeks ago I was driving our '99 300M (~20K miles) and I noticed that the steering felt very ponderous. Like driving through mashed potatoes. It was also making a little noise when rotated to lock position for U-turns and back out of the drive way.

When I returned home, I popped the hood and checked the belts and power steering fluid. The belts looked okay, though worn, via a quick scan. Still tight. However, the PS fluid was about an inch and a half below the "max when hot" line. I added enough new PS fluid to bring the level up to that line.

I then test drove the car and had my wife drive it also. Both of us were shocked at the night-and-day change. Back to like-new. No evidence of PS fluid dripped in the engine compartment and none on my garage floor, so no apparent system leak.

Now I notice that when cold, the PS fluid level is about an inch over the "max when cold" line. Since I like the way the steering handles now, I'm not inclined to try to reduce the fluid level down, even though the manual, as usual, says to not overfill.

My issue is two-fold. Should I be concerned about maintaining my present PS fluid level? If this PS fluid level is necessary for satisfactory PS performance, is something like the PS pump failing? Are there any chronic PS problems w/ the 300M?

Thanks in advance.

easyrider300m

as long as there is still enough space for the fluid to expand without reaching the top of the reservoir when hot, then it probably wont be a problem. But if it expands and reaches the top, it could potentially cause a leak in the lines from excess pressure buildup. So check the level after a lot of city driving and if its not near the very top, you should be ok. Otherwise, you should lower the level a little.

silverbullet4

Because my 2000M was a couple of hundred miles away from the 36k warranty expiration, I took it in to the dealer for a few niggling problems. The service advisor was a new guy, and was very eager to please. I left him with three tasks:
1. Fix the groaning drivers window
2. Program in the flashing red light when remote control locks the car.
3. Fix the sunroof gasket that was seperating at the seam at the rear.

I came back later half expecting a lot of non-progress. Instead he informed me that they had replaced the window regulator, programmed the red light, and had ordered a new sunroof! (He felt like a glue job wouldn't last)

I hope this guy sticks around for a long time and keeps up the proactive attitude.

Silver

pster

I have an appointment tonight to have my a/c compressor replaced. The clutch on the compressor pretty obviously had locked up and burned through the belt. My question is this: Is it likely the clutch itself failed, or could the compressor itself have seized up and caused the failure? The reason I ask is that last fall my a/c leaked and was recharged, including a can of this leak repair stuff (for very small leaks I was told it might be effective). If the a/c subsequently leaked again, could this have caused the compressor to lock up? The 5* service rep said no, that it was very likely a clutch failure. If it was the compressor, I assume a replacement would fix everything - I also assume the clutch is not seperately replaceable?

beach15

Now if we had gotten 5* service like that from either of the dealers we went to for our M's issues, we'd probably still have the car. Most of the issues we had could only be seen/heard/felt from driving the car for a few miles, but we'd check, and the odometer never changed from the moment it was dropped off most of the time.

But now, the GM dealer we take the Chevy to more than makes up for that crap. When we first bought it, there was a slight vibration when braking. Let it go over the summer and then took it in back in August. Simple issue: slightly warped rotors (very common), they resurfaced them, and they've been fine for 6 months so far. Then, last month it was really cold and we got a hairline crack in the passenger's side mirror. Stopped in one evening while shopping, and in less than 10 seconds, the guy just said he'd order a new one and call us. It was in 3 days later, they painted it, and installed it the next day.

Pretty minor stuff, but for some dealers (like so many 5*'s, it would be like pulling teeth trying to get them to fix it. I'm very glad you had such a good luck--just hope the new guy keeps things going like this!

pster

My love affair with my 300M, Chrysler and American cars in general ended last night at 9:04 p.m. CST. A/C compressor in fact had seized up. The techs said low refrigerant is supposed to shut the compressor down, it didn't, and the compressor seized. $750. Then they said both cooling fan motors were failing and one fan was about to be thrown. The bearings in both fan motors were bad (they're right, I heard them). $750. Here's the damage this piece of Chrysler crap has cost me in 51k miles:

2 window motors/regulators $400
Failed tranny hydraulic pump $1200
Failed steering pump $700
Failed A/C compressor $700
2 Failed fan motors $750
2 Failed Speed sensors $250
Evaporator coil leak $1200

I think that totals about $5300. This car has been my hell hole the last 10k miles. After it's fixed, I will be looking at a new Acura, Honda or Toyota replacement. No more American cars. It's a shame. I really enjoyed this car.....for 37k miles. Good luck to all.

njerald

That's why they sell extended warranties!!! Domestic and imported.

pjyoung

That's not too good. However, I had a Honda Prelude that had the AC compressor seize (back in 1992. Almost a thousand dollar repair. Shortly after that the fan motors failed, and that was about a $500 repair. I traded the car shortly after that, and the sales manager from the dealership called me to ask if I had any problelms with the car, as he was thinking of buying it for his daughter. I told him the AC had been replaced a few months earlier, and other than that, the car was in pretty good shape. He called me about 6 months later to confirm that I had replaced the AC compressor. I told him I did, and he told me that the compressor seized again. I told him I'd give him my reciepts if he wanted to take it up with the Honda dealer that did the work. Moral of the story - don't be disappointed should your Accura, Honda or Toyota have some component failures.

pster

All machines break. But $5300 in repairs between 36k and 50k miles is unacceptable, extended warranty or not. I own a Camry with 112K miles and have owned a Honda for 8 years. I have tried to buy and live American cars and vans for the last 10 years.... Chrysler vehicles are wonderful designs, are seemingly good value on the front end, but in my experience have no legs.

pster

At the risk of bringing politics into the equation.....I wouldn't drive a German car or a French car (if they could make one....) right now if it was given to me.

pat

let's not go there, okay? :-)

beespecial

I've been there too, with an '88 Chev. Beretta. Now I wouldn't have another chevy up my backside if I had room for two.
That kind of $$ in 10k miles is way over what anyone should expect to shell out in repairs for any vehicle. I hope you find something really good as a replacement. Foreign or domestic.

pster

already shopping for a quote on a 2003 Camry (sloppy handling but I think I have determined that reliability is important to me), Accord (better handling but ugly as sin itself), G35 (intriguing), or maybe Acura TL. Love the 300M design and size and handling, but I've been beaten down.

laurasdada

I'm sorry that your M has let you down so badly. My '99 has experienced the window motors and tranny speed sensor issues, but were during the 3/36 warranty. That expired 8500 miles and several months ago, I'm kind of living in fear of what has happened to you happening to me. On the plus side, so far, my M has not shown any signs of trouble at all. I went through the a/c compressor problem on my '95 Intrepid, so I feel your pain!

If there are no (or very few, as with me) reliability issues, this is such a great car! I'm hoping to have at least a couple more years of trouble-free motoring before I blow my retirment money/kids college fund on my next car.

Currently in sunny Florida, returning to my buried under two plus feet of snow 300M tomorrow! Last Saturday was great: hopped on the plane with an exterior temp of 10 degrees, step off the plane several hours later to a temp of 75 degrees!

beespecial

I looked real hard at the G35 before I got the M last November. The one big plus the G35 had over the M was quickness. RWD and less weight really makes it jump. But to me, that was the only real advantage. The coupe looks good but if you have family, forget it. Infinitys are said to have great reliability but I don't have any first-hand experience. If I couldn't have my M I'd have the G. It's worth a close look.

hmk123

I just reached 35.5k on my 2001 300M. I was wondering: do most of you go to the dealer then to have it checked out one last time under original warranty? The car seems fine and nothing seems wrong (still love this beauty). Should I look for something? Are there known issues that I should check? Would you just go to the dealer and say: please take a look? I do have the extended MaxCare warranty with a $100 deductible.

Thanks,
Hans

pster

My experience is this: if you take your 300M into the dealer just for a "check-up", 99% of the time they WILL find something. I haven't had a call yet that didn't end in "....oh, and we found another problem....". My advice would be to stay away from the dealer until something breaks, or you want maintenance service.

OK, I'll stop whining now, it's been a bad car week.

beespecial

That's why you take it in for a checkup. To find the problems you can't find yourself. If you don't have to spring for a deductible (under original warranty) and your warranty is about to expire, and especially if you suspect a problem, I'd do it.

pster

I hear you, but I've never in my life had a dealer's service dept. find problems before they occurred. I certainly take my car in unsolicited for maintenance and I would agree absolutely that it's a good idea to take it in before the warranty expires. My concern is that today's Service Reps are trained to "sell repairs"....I've heard them say that.

valhs

pster -

I've posted many times regarding the poor build quality of Chrysler products and the so called service centers. So far I'm out of pocket $0 because I invested in a warranty through 1sourceautowarranty, not because I won the Chrysler lottery and found the one car without defects.

Here's a great way to tell the reliability of a car. Simply go to the 1sourceautowarranty website and research the cost of a service contract. These are based on risk, which of course it tied to a car's reliability. To buy the top of the line Diamond Care 10yr/100k mile warranty with $0 deductible for a car with 7,000 miles costs the following:

Chrysler 300M - $1,449
Lincoln LS - $1,369
Pontiac Bonneville SSei - $1,199
Lexus GS300 - $1,199
Infiniti G35 - $1,199
Acura TL-S - $999

I chose these cars because they are most often compared to the 300M on price/content/performance. The next time I buy a car I'll consider ALL the costs of ownership. Do I want a $32,000 vehicle with $6,000 worth of repair bills, or does it make more sense to buy a $38,000 car with incredible reliability? Don't even get me started on resale value.

300M new $32,000 - 2 years later $12,000. The word is out, Chrysler couldn't build a reliable car on a bet.

pster

You don't need to tell me. I just spent the equivalent of my daughter's first year in college room and board on fixing my 300M. I couldn't be madder at Chrysler - never again will I buy Chrysler. I visited a Honda dealer today and looked at the EXV6, leather, heated seats, etc...It has all the content of the 300M less only 30 hp - but better gas mileage with a VTEC. What is weird is that I actually think the Accord's interior, certainly the front seat area, is bigger than the 300M (very surprised, the Accord seat feels larger.) And for +/-$26,000. I will buy an extended warranty, but not from an independent warranty company unless they fully disclosed their financial statement to me - I know how to read fiancial risk. I drove my 300M today on a 40 mile winding country road....after getting it back from the dealer last night. I still love the car, handling, feel...it is a crying pitiful shame Chrysler can't make it a true "durable good". I've decided butt ugly but reliable is better than drop dead gorgeous but diseased....

beach15

This is one of those issues that has been beat to death. As a general rule though, while no company will ever make 100% perfect cars, there are some that generally produce a higher percentage, while others generally make less. For instance, in general, Toyota may be considered as making more flawless cars than Ford does, and so on.

bluesky999

Pster, you're right that your car's reliability record is unacceptable. In fact it's downright horrendous, and I think you're more than justified in being angry. It seems really weird to me that some of the M's are so reliable, and others not at all such as yours. I still remember C&Ds long term test, and they stated it was the most reliable car they had ever tested because nothing went wrong for 40K. But that doesn't help you. Anyway, what I really wanted to say was that I know someone who complained directly to Chrysler (perhaps the region manager, I'm not sure) about a repair that was needed shortly after the warranty expired, and Chrysler wrote the person a check. It won't hurt to talk to the region manager and see if you can get reimbursed for some of this. There are also lemon laws that you may qualify for. I'm very sorry for your bad experience. Although my 'M is quite reliable, after hearing your story I feel afraid to consider another. Was it a '99 (first year build)?

pster

I think you are all correct. Blusky, my 300M is a 1999. I have called Chrysler - they're good listeners but basically said
"we're sorry" (the Chrysler rep also asked me if I had "purchased an extended warranty contract - DUH). If you read the Lemon Laws, it's virtually impossible to win a claim under them (its not for nothing auto companies pay for lobbyists). In a world where auto mechanics are billed at $100/hour, where parts are "removed and replaced" instead of being repaired, and where the dealer makes his money on parts and labor (typically 90%+ of total operating earnings), the costs of vehicle ownership are bound to rise. Interesting news story yesterday: GM, Ford and Chrysler are raiding the airlines for mechanics saying their auto mechanics, while still suffering from cultural stigma (i.e., "grease monkeys") are actually making "in the six figures". The union guy said they were going to get their share. This tells me the money to be made in the auto business now is on the repair side.

I'm looking at other cars, not in a rush. I am curious about one thing: I was in love with this car for 36K miles, and most of the other owners on this board appear to be very happy. My queston is: How many owners have actually achieved 75-100K miles on thier 300M without having as many repair problems as I have had?

pster

I think your comment about first year production owners being beta testers has some intuitive merit, although I am unaware of any actual facts or data. I have always thought that foreign car companies, especially Honda and Toyota, were more "evolutionary" in their model changes, hence their changes tended to be somewhat less radical than Detroit from year to year. Perhaps this leads to more stable and predictable error rates. We are studying six sigma practices in my business and it is becoming apparent to me that while "product, product, product" is critical, it is typically a company's inability to create and execute effective processes based on HARD DATA that distinguishes the world class companies: Stabiity, Predictability, lower Volatility. Chrylser will become world class, in my opinion, when they actually succeed in ridding themselves of their age old stigma of making cars that mechanically fail. They still have that latent reputation in the marketplace and they can't fix it by saying their warranty costs in 36K miles are down by 20% - that's an articial standard. On the customer satisfaction side, they need to belly up to the bar and do a better job of taking care of loyal customers like myself (4 Chrylser vehicles in 10 years).

shadowfax2

we could combine Chrysler exterior design with Toyota or Honda build quality. Chrysler...been there done that and not going back. I now own an 03 Honda Accord EX-V6. May not be as nice to look at as a 300M but the view is better from the inside, as I am driving past the Chryslers with their hoods up by the roadside.

russklass

I probably have more experience with 300Ms than anyone on this board, having had a very early '99, and currently an '01.
Between the 2, I have driven over 125,000 miles with NO repairs. These were my first Chryslers ever, and I am currently considering a Pacifica as my 300M lease is up.
The point is...EVERY auto message board is filled with both satisfied and dissatisfied owners.
All make cars are composed of thousands of parts, some of wich will fail.
Your particular experience will vary depending on dumb luck, vehicle care, and dealer service.Two of these vriables are within your control.

pster

Russ, you've known me for 3 years...I've taken care of my 300M above and beyond, as many of the owners on this board have. My only sin for being an avid 300M owner was not buying an extended service warranty. I bet the law of averages and lost. I've not received any help from the 5* dealer or Chrysler customer service except "sorry", "tough luck" and "should have bought a long term service contract". So....that's 2 out of three leaving "dumb luck". Not my idea of how a company should treat repetitive customers who got a bad apple. I'm off my soapbox. Finished. I'll enjoy my 300M until I can find a car that my own research and experience will show is more reliable, because I can't afford to throw $30M to blind luck. I know you were one onf the first 300M buyers....any others that have acheived 60-75K+ without significant repairs (you could be at the opposite end of the dumb luck spectrum)?

pster

TJ - I would be interested in knowing what you paid for the Accord EXV6, before TTL and dealer option adddons. Can you e-mail me at libre2b@yahoo.com? Thanks, Phil

99_300m_ric_va

Pster,

As long as you are getting another car, taking another risk mind you, why not just get another M, one without all the problems. Most 300Ms are pretty reliable. I would be surprised to see you get another bad one. Try getting a used 2001, probably the best of the years, and do an extended test drive, get the dealer to let you take it home for the weekend and check it out against your negative experiences and see if it can pass the muster. Turn a negative experience into a positive one.

I just hate to see you walk away and become another regretful former owner like beach15, or fastdriver, fuzzywuzzy, etc.

pster

Thanks for the suggestion, but I took better care of this car than any I have ever owned. In fact, I had just put a new set of Dunlop SP's on it and a new battery before the latest round of failures. Consequenty, I would never buy a used 300M for fear it has had similar problems. I could never expect the truth from a dealer. I could be convinced to buy a new one if Chrysler sold it to me for cost, and GAVE ME an extended service contract. And we all know that will never happen.

blonda

Sorry to hear you got one of the "lemons". I agrees with the others that all brands have their lemons....the problem with Chrysler seems to be their attitude about handling those that do arise. It's their outright lack of the standard "customer comes first" attitude that has turned off many people to their brand. If they would take the time to look at this...their earnings would probably be better too.

My 99 with 54k miles has had very few problems..and the one's I did have were very minor. I continue to hope I'm one of the lucky ones...

jona57

To clarify my previous post, if we exclude the small fraction of horribly unreliable vehicles (remember the Yugo?), there is such a small difference in reliability between most makes these days that IMHO it is no longer a valid reason to choose one model over another. Current JD Power data indicates less than a 1 defect per-100-vehicle difference among sedans of "average reliability or better" (vs 2-4 defects/100 vehicles difference a decade ago). Would you really buy a bland vehicle over one you really want because of a <1% chance of getting a "lemon"? Not me. I firmly believe that buying from a good dealer who treats the customer well is of greater import than the actual vehicle make itself. My only exception is the 1st model year issue, which I believe is supported by JD Power data and (pardon my brief hypocracy!) Consumer Reports surveys/advice. If my '01 M were stolen tomorrow, I would buy another without hesitation despite the knowledge that I might have a fraction of 1% greater chance of getting a "lemon" than if I bought a certain less-appealing (to me) sedan.
BTW- I have yet to have a lemon in the many vehicles I've bought (or leased) in the past 15 years (all from the Big 3 -most from Chrysler). IMHO Chrysler's less than optimal attitude towards the customer is no different than most other makers. All expect you to "invest" in their extended warranties or they tend to blow you off. (Try doing a google search on "Toyota engine sludge".) Again, a good dealer can be critical to the best ownership experience as an advocate for their customers. I wish ALL carmakers would realize that.

Despite all of the above, I too would be loathe to do business with any company that treated me as badly as described in some posts.

Jon

bluesky999

Pster,

You asked for reports on reliable cars w/65K+. Mine is a later build '99 w/69K miles. Although I bought it used w/49K miles on it, I think the owner was up front w/me as he told me that although one of the window motors was replaced, the rest of the car had been very reliable. He also told me it was his 2nd 'M--his first one (an early build '99) he said was a nightmare. I won't go into details, but I had the impression he worked out some kind of deal with the dealer to trade it in, get a new one w/a 75K mile warranty ($50 deductible) that he didn't have to pay for. He was a lawyer which may have worked in his favor. Anyway, between 49K and 69K I've had 1 1/2 problems. This weekend needed to get the electronic memory seat module replaced (with diagnostic/part & labor a little under $300). The only other problem was that, when the weather turned warm, the a/c wasn't working. But 5* diagnosed, said there was no leak of freon, rather it appeared that someone had left something lose so it leaked out--whatever; they added refrigerant and it has worked fine since. I drive it fairly hard at times and on roads w/potholes and the suspension is still tight as a drum. Note that the lightshow I had mentioned previously went away when I took the EZpass off of the rear-view mirror (that's where the sensor is so you can screw it up if you mount something big there). So mine's been fairly good.

Allow me to comment on the Honda you're considering. My mother just got one ('03 accord sedan), and the 4 cylinder model with leather, dual climate control and loaded w/all but side airbags we got a great deal on for 22K. Note that the 4 cylinder has variable valve timing, 160 hp, and very good pep. The lighter weight in front makes it handle better too, IMO, not to mention better gas mileage than the V6, and approximately 4K less dough. You might want to try it before deciding on the V6. The 6 will give you better passing power on the highway, but this 4 cylinder is surprising, plus w/the economy and handling benefits and less cost its a good deal. Just something for you to think about. Again, sorry your 'M was a dud. After hearing your story I'd have to think long and hard before buying another Chrysler. I know cars on the Acura and Lexus boards have some problems, but I haven't heard of anything like you experienced; that's simply incredible, and that they wouldn't work with you is a real slap in the face. If you haven't already, go up the Chrysler chain (call the manger's manager, and then his manager, etc.) of DMC to try to get some satisfaction.

ruski

Honda has its own share of problems, especially the nagging transmission problem.

bigmike5

The resale price on used anythings is in the toilet due to the economy and the rebate deals on new cars. Not just DC products. My wife's 00 Eldorado with 15K miles on it was $42K on the sticker and was booking at $22K when I checked it a few months ago. $20K off the sticker in less than 2 years with low mileage is not exactly holding its value. Heck, new 2002 300Ms were selling here at $6 off the sticker. You could walk out with one brand new, with no haggling for $24K. That is the economy talking, not the build quality. I am still waiting for Dierter to cave in on the 0/60 financing, and then I will consider another M unless the N's or Crossfires look or perform better than expected. And if you want to look at warranty plan costs=reliability, I priced one for my daughter who recently got an overpriced [in my opinion] 03 Audi A4 and the top of the line plan thru my credit union was like $2,813. Course, I never thought much of Audi reliability but many people have a perception that Germany made equals....never mind, don't want to go there...again.

pster

Thanks for all the good advice and counsel, I do appreciate it. Again, the 300M is a fantastic car, I may very well have gotten the Monday morning special, who knows. Blusky999 - after some research I think I may in fact go for the 4 cylinder Accord since my 13 year old will be driving it in 3 years. 17 year old has the Camry, wife drives Sebring LXi (I have my fingers crossed on that one - if it has problems, that would be the final nail in the coffin for me and Chrysler). I plan to drive the 300M, now fixed and running fine, until I find a replacement car. I am deathly afraid the a/c system has a terminal problem, including leaking evaporator which is a ticking time bomb. My only regret is that I won't be trading this back into my local Chrysler dealer and telling him its in perfect running condition with no repairs.

fuzzywuzzy

I never had regrets about selling my M. My needs changed. Everyone is different. I know some other 300M owners locally, & they are really trouble free. Just a bad car. My mom bought a Pontiac from a family member who never drove it. It's a 94, with 49K miles. My mom started driving it all over the place, Now it's showing many, many problems.

fuzzywuzzy

I solved those tranny worries. I got an 03 with a 6 speed manual. I was able to trade it in with little out of pocket, & keep the same lease deal.

cebteb

bluesky999 - "tight as a drum", how about hard as a rock. First 10K miles the ride was sports car-like, last 10K miles old pickup truck like. Under warranty, alignments, balancing, rotor replacement, and tie-rod torque. On our nickel, 2 new Goodyears (one still bad), 4 new Yoko YF420s (3 bad), and Hunter 9700 GXP confirmation that all wheels now meet the Chrysler TSB of 20 #s or less radial force. Still rough as a cob and has transient steering wheel vibration. Wife wants to know why the steering on the 99' M can't feel solid and stable like the 03' Bravada. I can't answer that. Looking to replace all the struts soon as a final shot, again on our nickel.

pster - "trading this back into my local Chrysler dealer and telling him it's in perfect running condition with no repairs". Never happen! Ever bit of service you've ever had done by a DC shop is in an electronic file linked to your VIN number. The DC dealer would know in minutes if you were trading in a lemon or a cherry. Too bad the used car customer can't access the same information.

As to DC service, the dealerships we've dealt w/ vary from incompetent to helpful (2 Chrysler & 2 Dodge, currently w/ Dodge; last Chrysler shop was good, but they lost interest in doing anything else under warranty). However, the DC customer service was extraordinary. Forced one dealer to refund for work that shouldn't have been performed and for an associated alignment. Directed us to shop they believed was most competent and directed that shop to do whatever to make us happy.

indydriver

'99 delivered Dec. 4, 1998. I purchased a 3-yr, 100,000 mile mid-grade extended warranty for $900. Now have 102,000+ after an 800 mile trip to Michigan last week. I had some transmission electronics work under the 36,000 mile warranty. From 36K to 100K I had the seat bolt fracture, a failure in a front sway bar bushing (and here is perhaps where the value of purchasing an extended warranty comes in from Chrysler's perspective: the repair-replacing the entire assembly-cost $600. Though not technically covered by my warranty, Chrysler volunteered to cover it for my $100 deductible). Finally, the recently well documented torque converter replacement for $600 out of warranty. Of note, I got 53,000 miles out of the OEM Goodyears and currently have 49,000 on a replacement set with no complaints. I had the brake rotors turned and pads replaced at 90,000 miles. Granted, I drive a lot of highway miles but I view this history as reliable and a good value.

Finally, I would have a real problem buying a car simply for utilitarian value. Owning a car is all about that overpowering "want-to" when you find a vehicle that justs knocks you over for its visual appeal and spec sheet. I think everyone here has felt that about their M. Its a shame that any business would squander that kind of attitude towards its products from any single customer. I like your formula for satisfaction. If I was your regional manager, I'd try to make it happen.

ruski

cool deal. Mine is a TL, and I need 4 doors. So I probably wouldn't be able to trade it in for a CL 6-speed manual. Oh, forgot this too - I don't know how to drive stick

pster

Got a good quote for an Accord EX 4 cyl today - $300 over invoice, and the 7/100K Honda extended warranty is $850 cheaper than Chryslers for the 300M. Basically, everything the 99 300M had, sans the 255 V6, including heated seats, plus cd changer, etc. for only $22,500. I really like the Accord interior, excellent tactile feel, ergonomics excellent, real or apparent roominess greater than 300M (I think the puffed out side panels of the 300M make it appear larger than it is?). Plan to test drive the 4 and 6 this week. I will probably fall for the V6 (5 speed auto vs. 4) which will bump price another $2500-3000 I'm sure. Now if I can just not have to look at its rear end. Yeeeeewwwww.....think I'll ask for a "butt ugly discount".

valhs

I hear ya, but I still don't agree. Even if you paid $24K, to lose 50% of your value in 2 years is crazy, not to mention a trade-in value of $10,500. A Cadillac is no better because they are also notorious for poor resale. Try and find a 2 year old Lexus GS400 for 1/2 price = $24,000. YOU CAN'T! Try and find an Acura TL-S type for $16,000. YOU CAN'T! Our poor resale value is not a symptom of poor negotiating or a poor economy. It's a symptom of Chrysler's reliability or lack of. We deserve a better car, to think less is selling yourself short. When a car stickers at $32,000+ it has to deliver. If you keep buying poorly made Chryslers that look good you're rewarding their business model. All fluff and no stuff. If a bland vehicle means it starts every morning, the seats work, the interior doesn't deteriorate, the electronics don't act up, the tranny doesn't break, the rims don't leak, the trunk doesn't fill with water every time it rains, the paint doesn't fade and chip after 2 years and it can manage to hold at least 60% of it's value then give me BLAND.

300michael

I have a mid (December 98) built 99. Not quite as many miles as your request but for the last four+ years it has been a gem. This is by far the least expensive vehicle to maintain. Sorry you got a bad one, I still think the 99's got a bad rap for nothing.

bluesky999

I didn't understand most of your post to me. But I was surprised that you indicated the steering isn't "solid and stable". That's one of the nice traits of the 'M, and I haven't heard of that problem before. Similarly, sorry if you car doesn't ride the same after 10k miles. Most others are not experiencing that. Perhaps you should sell it and buy something you like.

pster

With reluctance ( I feel like I'm driving a time bomb...) I have decided to keep the 300M through the summer. The front end depreciation on any car would, I am "betting", equal if not exceed another repair cost on the 300M. I am hoping that Honda re-designs the butt end of the Accord in the next release......and it won't be a beta car by then......I'm betting they change it, it's way entirely too butt ugly. Now if my a/c can hold out........I can hear another 1200 repair coming....

ruski

why don't you check out Mazda6 in the meantime? It has good looks.

fuzzywuzzy

Most american cars have bad resale. Just the way it is. My relatives V6 Mustang she got in October, is now worth $13K. She paid $16K. Another year it's worth maybe $8K.

pster

cars are consumables and marketing has conditioned us to buy frequently.