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2012 Subaru Impreza

2456732

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    backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Yep, and Subaru's marketing folks are obviously idiots for not conducting or understanding the marketing research that would clearly tell them that there's a big market out there for sticks in high-end compacts. They should all be fired. Maybe there's a job available to you!

    Or maybe they did the research and it told them their market has evaporated because that buyer just went out and bought a GTI. :)
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Isn't the WRX stick only? That's their GTI alternative.
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    backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Not for everyone, it appears.
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    shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    I wouldn't exactly classify the WRX (or the MazdaSpeed3 or the Evo for that matter) as competition for the GTI, at least not from where my wife and I sit. The thing is, we're both well into our fifties, and things like over the top spoilers, scoops, flairs, wheels (complete with rubber-band sidewall height tires), horse power and torque specifications, and interior design are not at all to our liking.

    Yeah granted the GTI has fanboi styled wheels, but I've already ordered a set of 17 x 7.5 Enkei Tuning Fujin wheels with a set of 225/45 R17 Yokohama AVID ENVigor tires to replace the factory 18" Detroit wheels (the complete set will be on Craig's List sometime next week).
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    148hp isn't going to steal GTI sales, even if it had a 6 speed manual.

    Subaru needs an inbetween model, and not just the XV 2.5.

    Put the BRZ's engine (FA20) in the Sport model, exclusively, make the name mean something.
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    ods2010ods2010 Member Posts: 12
    Anyone has done a pre-order.

    What is the cost that is been quoted for you ? please share your price.
    Looking for
    2012 Impreza Premium 5-Door with CVT auto transmission
    I guess in CA, PZE is automatic...

    There are still a few 2011 Nissan Juke AWD in my area. I am confused to go with cheaper 2011 Nissan Juke or wait and give a deposit for Impreza.
    2012 Juke AWD cost same as Impreza so have a limited amount of time to decide.

    Please share your experience and thoughts
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    xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,940
    Juke... they should have named it Puke because it is so incredibly ugly! They are popping up all over the place around here, though.

    But, aesthetics aside, the useable space on the Impreza looks better; I haven't run the numbers on them, though. The Impreza AWD is superior - do you live in an area of CA that really needs it? If so, that may be a factor.

    Fuel economy on the Juke is significantly lower (25/30 versus 27/36 on the Impreza), which also may be a factor depending on how much -and where- you drive.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
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    paopao Member Posts: 1,867
    I did a preorder with no money down and no negotiations..I'll wait till the car arrives, see how it drives and if I like it..then will negotiate the price....as my sales rep told me....if you dont like it we will just put it in our inventory.....We purchased our 11 Outback from him as well at invoice....I expect a slightly above invoice pricing as it appears most have preorders already on this car...and I will be using truecar.com as my pricing threshold..

    we ordered the 5Dr limited with pkg 1, nav and moonroof, in deep cherry pearl with ivory leather interior.....Im planning on it replacing my 200K 04 malibu maxx. I currently have a 100 mile roundtrip commute each day through some back country roads, so looking forward to the AWD and improved MPG over my Chevy, though it has been a true workhorse for me with no problems at all.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Nissan also recommends premium fuel. You can compare here:

    http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/sbs.htm

    But basically you'll spend about $350 more per year to fuel up the Juke, which is much smaller inside.

    If you get it, just make sure you like it a LOT better.
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    steine13steine13 Member Posts: 2,819
    edited November 2011
    "Yep, and Subaru's marketing folks are obviously idiots for not conducting or understanding the marketing research that would clearly tell them that there's a big market out there for sticks in high-end compacts."

    I will respectfully disagree with you and throw my lot in with shipo.

    Beware the argument that the professionals must know what they're doing.
    And beware the focus group.

    Just ask Ford; they focus-grouped their minivan in the 90s and concluded that driver's side sliding doors were unnecessary. They found out very quickly what the market really thought.

    It's not that Subaru is a "different kind of company," to borrow a phrase, it's that Subaru truly has a different kind of customer.

    First up, they have all of VW's customers from 20 years ago, at least the sane ones. And now that VW reliability is up, that's who they stand to lose customers to.

    Then it has all the people that don't like what the mainstream has to offer -- I'm not just talking about the AWD market, which they have clearly cornered.

    I'm talking about the "real" outdoors people who need their cars to get their toys to the river or the mountain. And to do it for better than 14 mpg.

    All the brands have cars that purport to cater to those markets, but in reality, they cater to the posers more than anything else -- that's a big market, nothing wrong with selling goods to posers, but Subaru's customers are looking for something different.

    What's the industry-wide take rate for manuals? My last numbers are a decade old, and it was well under 10% then. Subaru's is way high -- I dont' remember the number, but I do remember reading it somewhere. It was higher than the mainstream, and I certainly believe the Impreza's 30% take rate.

    Now consider the used side: A few years back, when I had access, I searched Manheim auction reports for used Outbacks. Nationwide, several hundred cars; the manuals made up 3 percent of that bunch. Why the difference?

    A lot of Subaru's core customers buy a car every ten years or so; they get the manual, they drive the snot out of it, then they pass it on to a family member or sell it on the street. And then they get a new one.

    Subaru just screwed up big-time by putting a useless rack on the Outback. Their focus groups told them that it was wonderful, but the paddling forums are full of people looking for alternatives.

    It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of people, like shipo, weren't turned off by not being able to get things like sunroofs and leather with their manual-transmission cars.

    If Subaru wants to sell mainstream cars to mainstream people, they will find that they can't really compete with Toyota. They better not alienate their traditional customers.

    FWIW, I've never owned a Subaru, though I'm fixin' to.
    Cheers -Mathias
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    shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Very well said; I'm once again a VW customer (after a sixteen year hiatus)...
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    backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    So you and shipo both have jobs waiting for you at Subaru Marketing. ;)

    I wonder if the 30% Impreza stick shift number includes WRXs?

    If Subaru is going to put more sticks in more cars, they should do it right: put in 6 speeds that get at least as good fuel economy as their CVTs, and keep engine revs (and noise) down at cruise like CVTs do. Otherwise Subaru will be forced to put more CVTs into the mix just to meet the Federal fleet FE regs.
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    shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "If Subaru is going to put more sticks in more cars, they should do it right: put in 6 speeds that get at least as good fuel economy as their CVTs, and keep engine revs (and noise) down at cruise like CVTs do. Otherwise Subaru will be forced to put more CVTs into the mix just to meet the Federal fleet FE regs."

    Also very well said; a 6-Speed Impreza would make a wonderful compliment to the CVT model.
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    2012 6-speed manual Imprezas will be available—if you live in Australia, Europe, and other places far away from the USA. Only North America gets stuck with the 5-speed manual models. :(

    Bob
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Subaru is one step down from Kia in that regard, by the way. Even the Rio comes with 6 ratios. :sick:
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    xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,940
    edited November 2011
    I think we already covered that topic in detail before... more ratios doesn't necessarily mean better FE or lower revs at highway speeds. Sometimes, it just means more ratios.

    Considering how conservative Subaru is at introducing new technology, I was surprised that the 2012 Impreza received both a new engine and a new CVT in the same model year. So, thinking we would get new engines and two new transmissions simultaneously is simply a pipe dream. Such a manual transmission next model year is a possibility, though.

    Heck, they didn't even manage to put the CVT into the Forester in the 2012 model year, which I expected after the new engine intro in 2011. I'm sure it will be there for the new 2013 model.

    Personally, I don't care if the Impreza ever gets six speeds unless the transmission offers better utility with smoother shifting. I don't ascribe to the "more is better" school of thought. The five speed is perfectly adequate for the job it performs and it is dead reliable. If they want to improve on that through a six-speed, great. If not, give me a better five-speed and I'm just as happy.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
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    backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    edited November 2011
    So, thinking we would get new engines and two new transmissions simultaneously is simply a pipe dream.

    Well... Hyundai/Kia rolled out four new engines and three new 6-speed transmissions within one year. For example, the 2011 Elantra got not only an new engine but two new 6-speed trannies. Same with the low-bucks Accent (and Kia Rio). I know Subaru has fewer resources, but I don't think it's too much to ask to give us the 6MT that they already sell in other countries, along with the CVT.

    A 6th cog could provide a super-overdrive that might get FE of the manual close to that of the CVT, and also reduce RPMs and engine noise on the highway.
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    xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,940
    That's true but, like I said in the previous message, Subaru tends to be quite conservative when it comes to rolling out new technology.

    Given the engine's ratings, etc., I don't know that a taller gear would serve much purpose other than exercising the left leg a little more. Perhaps the midwest/plains areas would get good utility out of it.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
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    backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Once you're in top gear on the freeway, the left leg doesn't move much. Those who don't go on the freeway don't have to use the 6th gear.

    Is there a lot of "new technology" in a 6-speed manual tranny?

    This car wasn't very conservative:

    image
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    steine13steine13 Member Posts: 2,819
    It's always work, but when you do dig down into the numbers and look at what happens when a 6speed replaces a 5speed manual....

    ... usually, top gear stays the same and sometimes it even gets shorter. I believe the 2001+ Miatas are a case in point. As is the RX-8, but that's a whole different ballgame.

    The car makers don't trust us to drive the car properly and stay out of 6th unless we know we'll just be "cruising" for a while.

    I don't drive much, but I from what I do see out there, I'd say the car makers have a point. "Driving as a skill" does not seem to interest a lot of people.

    Still, a nice & sporty 5speed PLUS a really tall 6th for fuel efficiency -- you know, for driving I-70 in Kansas on a calm day -- would be a really good idea.

    One would have to know how to use it, though.

    Cheers -Mathias
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    edited November 2011
    Hate to say it, but it's only a matter of time before manual trannys are relegated to either bottom-feeder models and/or performance models. Hardly anyone in North America, other than those just mentioned, buys a manual anymore. The future is in 6-/6+-speed automatics, CVTs and DSGs. Frankly I'm surprised Subaru has continued to offer a manual choice on mid-level (Premium) trim models.

    Bob
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Combine what Bob said, with this comment from wes:

    Subaru tends to be quite conservative when it comes to rolling out new technology

    And you have a company which peaked last year and will not grow again until that changes. Plain and simple.

    I have a Miata and yes, the 6th ratio is so close to 5th, it's pointless. I usually skip 5th.

    But...Subaru's 5 speed doesn't match the CVT for fuel economy, and it should match it, or even beat it. Especially real-world.

    Remember, they made the gas tank smaller. A tall cruising gear would help range per tank. C&D only got 24mpg out of their Impreza tester.
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    backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    24 mpg is actually very good, for C/D. They averaged in the 20-21 mpg range tops for the batch of compacts they tested earlier this year, including Cruze, Focus, and Elantra... all with mpg ratings close to or above the Impreza's.
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    paopao Member Posts: 1,867
    I know there are the purest out there who will always perfer the stick to an auto transmission, however there are those of us who use the car in commuter traffic ever day. I have put two 5spds throught DC metro region traffic....and will always opt to an auto when the primary use of the car is commuter and daily use.....I opt for the AWD due to the unpredictable weather in the winter and the ill prepared municipalities who cant seem to deal with it year in and year out. Thus my choice for the new impreza with the new cvt..coupled with its improved MPG.....already own a 11 Outback which she drives....now I will use the impreza 5dr to replace my 200K chevy.....
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    shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    While many may well consider me a purist when it comes to the manual transmission equipped cars, it is only because I like the extra control the stick offers me over even the latest and greatest automatic transmissions of any stripe.

    As for traffic, well, I've lived on some of the most congested cities in the world and with the exception of the nearly four years I was banished to minivandom (complete with an automatic), I've driven exclusively manual transmissions since the mid 1970s. Can't say that even in the worst of the multi-hour grinds through Los Angeles, San Francisco, Atlanta, Dallas, Chicago, New York, Boston, and Stuttgart, I never once wished for an automatic (quite the opposite while I was driving a family minivan).
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    xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,940
    Haha, no, it wasn't. And, it wasn't Subaru's only model in the 1990s that fit that mold. But, that thinking also nearly drove the company in to the ground. When they regrouped in the late 90's with the Legacy/Outback and Impreza, then added the Forester, they really reset their core.

    I agree with you, though.... In today's automotive world, their pace is too slow even if the current machinery is tried, true, and adequate.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
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    dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    This car [SVX] wasn't very conservative:

    And to bring this full circle ... the SVX was only available with an automatic transmission.
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    shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Really? I could have sworn I test drove a 5-Speed model back in the day. I didn't buy because I hated the mouse-track seat-belt thing.
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    dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    Yes, Really. Maybe you test drove an XT?
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    In that case, it did well relative to its competition. Cool.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think so because the SVX had airbags, so no motorized mice, AFAIK.
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    shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Not the one I drove, it definitely had the mouse track thing.
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    once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    this from my local dealer (only one within 100 miles). They do not yet have the 2012 Impreza in stock, but shortly. This is sounding like invoice cost on any $20,000 car? Good deal, or?

    John
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    paopao Member Posts: 1,867
    depends on the model....basic, premium or limited...and what other options are available...1200 off MSRP isnt necessarily a good deal....not thinking that is exactly invoice either...
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    xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,940
    I agree. $1200 off a $20,000 car is approximately invoice, but not so for one more expensive than that. For example, an H6 Limited Outback has over $2,000 between MSRP and invoice.

    If you want a quick approximation of invoice as compared to a particular Subaru's MSRP, just take the MSRP and multiply it by 0.94.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
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    angitheriasangitherias Member Posts: 34
    are there companies like zag.com in canada?
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    nyc6035nyc6035 Member Posts: 13
    Has anyone taken delivery of a 2012 Impreza. I see that Subaru put a stop sell on the Impreza, Legacy and Outback on Nov 25 - due to a master cylinder recall.

    Is anyone hearing a date for vehicles to go back on sale?
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    bg18947bg18947 Member Posts: 184
    edited December 2011
    Yes, a couple of the folks at the NASIOC forums have taken delivery and snapped pix of their new Imprezas.

    NASIOC thread

    I'm still waiting for mine. I know it's in transit.
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    backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Just got a brochure in the mail from the sales rep who gave me a test drive a few weeks ago. (She'll get first crack at a sale if I go for the Impreza). It confirmed that in order to get cruise, you need to get Premium trim at a minimum. But at least the 5 speed is available on the Premium. Also I was disappointed to see that Camellia Red Pearl is not available with the ivory interior, at least not with base or Premium trims. I think that would be a sharp combo. I don't like all-black interiors--a little too dour.

    Anyway, the stereo on the Base is so basic--just 4 speakers and a CD, no iPod jack etc.--and with no cruise, I will have to go with the Premium.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Just to reinforce that decision, residuals are highest for Premium models, traditionally. So resale is best.
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    minghiminghi Member Posts: 24
    Does anyone think the the wagon looks very bland in general, but gets much better with the two tone color on the sport premium? i'm unable to decide between the two-tone in blue & black. the green will make the car look 20 years old.
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    backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    This will be a looooong-term car for me. I am more concerned about what the car will be like to live with vs. resale value. I think I'd miss things like cruise and aux/iPod jacks. Not to mention a center console. And the plastic wheel covers are hideous. So looks like the Premium.
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    backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I think the wagon looks sharp in the medium blue, or Camillia Red Pearl. With the aggressive wheel arches and the cuts in the back, I don't think it looks bland at all.

    I had a two-tone Civic hatch once (1985). So I guess a two-tone Impreza would be a trip back 25 years for me.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Spring for the all-weather package if you live in a cold climate.
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    xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,940
    I felt the same way, at least when looking at the builder on the website. The wagon looks much nicer in two-tone. On the road, however, I think the solid color wagons, at least in dark colors, look very nice.

    The back end of the car is just so blocky. It makes me want to gag when I see it with light colors, but the dark ones seem to tone it down a bit.

    In general, though, I'm leaning away from the Impreza as my own purchase... but I still want to drive one (or two). I have some time yet to decide what I want to purchase. We'll see what MY13 brings to the automotive world. :)
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
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    backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    What does it give me besides heated mirrors? I'm getting cloth so I don't need heated seats. I would think ALL Subarus would be equipped for cold climates... look at the photos of the Impreza on subaru.com--most of them are snowy (i.e. cold).
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    xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,940
    Heated mirrors, seats, and heat pads under the wiper blades (front only). Honestly, the only useful feature is the heated mirrors. All cars should come with those as a safety feature.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    edited December 2011
    Gotta have the bun warmers! ;)

    Seriously, I would never buy another car without heated seats. Once you live with them for a while, you'll agree. On a cold day, they'll warm you up much faster than the car's heater.

    Bob
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    backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I agree, with leather. But with cloth? The seat is warm in 30 seconds or so. I am surprised not to see heated side mirrors on car that starts at $18k. I've only had one vehicle, a Grand Caravan, with the defrost elements under the wipers, so I can probably live without that feature.

    A Premium hatch with MT lists around $20k. Not too bad... actually pretty close to the likes of a Focus SE hatch with alloys, and that doesn't have AWD.
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