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2012 Subaru Impreza

1568101132

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    malachai1malachai1 Member Posts: 40
    This is going to be my main and only car coming from a crv. I have a 2 year olad and also a 7 year old. WE pretty much only do day trips in the summer. SIx flags,jersey shore, ect. If i dont get the epa of 36 i could care less as long as we have the Awd. Last year in the north we got hit with alot of rain in the summer and storm after strom in the winter.. So if 30 mpg is not good then maybe the focus is right fpr u guys. I will not buy anything from ford. Ever.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    FWIW, my minivan usually gets 27+mpg on road trips, and I just took a trip to ski and only managed 23.3mpg. So major drop when it's extremely cold like we saw on this trip.
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    xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,836
    edited January 2012
    Extremely cold? I doubt it.... :P

    Cold does have a huge impact, though. My last tank on the Escort, driven almost entirely in temps the likes of what you see in that link, was a dismal 21.011 mpg.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
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    kltronkltron Member Posts: 21
    I test drove a 5 door stick Sport Premium and 5 door CVT Limited or Sport Limited (Not sure...It had Nav). The weather was cloudy and cold (probably in the low 30s), a little breeze. I have not driven a Subaru for any appreciable length of time--ever. All new to me. I currently drive an 8th gen Civic 5-speed coupe, prior to that I had an Integra hatchback for 13 years and 255K (best...car...ever (for me)).

    My test drive route was about 3 miles up a highway, 3 miles backroads, then back.

    Stick:
    - There was a problem with steering in this vehicle. At moderate speed (30-35), the more I turned the wheel in a corner, the tighter it got, as if the power steering was failing or there was a flat tire up front (there wasn't). I hope it's a one-off in this specific vehicle.
    - Clutch has no feel. My Honda Civic actually has "some" feel of a friction point (stop laughing---it does!...kinda...). The Impreza has next to no "feel" the entire length of the pedal. I couldn't start the thing off right, and shifts were miserable with lots of jerking as I took my foot off the clutch. I don't know if this breaks in after a while, or if I have to "learn how to drive it", or if I have to burn out two clutches before I get it right...but this put me off. :-(
    - Yep, as someone said, you'd be "rowing" the gears. The power on this thing is a little too low for the stick. It'll get the job done, but you'll be hunting 4th-5th on the highway. My Civic will coast happily at 35mph on a flat road in 5th. The Impreza kinda wanted 4th for that. (Hypermiling technique)
    - I stopped at one point on a hill in some ice and snow. No problem getting out of it. Heh heh. AWD rules. :-) The Civic would have spun a little and likely gotten out...but I wouldn't have parked there, too afraid I'd get stuck. Score for the Subaru!
    - I would like a stick, but I get the impression that this car would tire me out, especially if in moderate highway traffic for long periods of time. I have taken the Civic on a nearly 500 mile run several times, and it's never made me tired.

    CVT:
    - The steering was a bit better in this car, with the "bog down" on the moderate corners about 1/5 the other car, but still head scratching to me. My Civic has never done that and is a blast to throw around. I put Michelin Harmony tires on it last summer, and...wow...sticks like glue.
    - The CVT seems much better matched to the engine than the stick. It's smooooooooth. I could drive that car all day long. Very nice.
    - This car had Nav. MotoWeek pointed out that it has fiddly buttons. I used the radio for the most part, and, yes, it's fiddly and hard to hit the right place on the screen. I prefer knobs when trying to drive a car, not hunting and pecking on a screen, thank you. Driving distraction.

    Both:
    - I didn't notice too much engine noise, but I drive a Civic. You do the math. :-)
    - The radio's sound is lacking. No stereo spread, not much kick. I didn't muck with it too much.
    - The on board MPG computer is nice. It does A-B and gives you MPG for each, average speed, and so on. Score.
    - It was not hard to get a comfortable driving position. The outside mirrors are HUGE, but they don't look huge as part of the car's styling. How did Subaru do that!?!!?!?!? Score.
    - The hatch isn't a hatch. It's a cavern for such an otherwise small car. Ku-freakin'-dos, Subaru.
    - Small? No, it doesn't "feel" small, btw. But I like small cars.
    - No remote hatch release. I found that odd. No biggie, as the hatch is very easy to open. I didn't check to see if there's a hatch release on the key fob...duh.
    - No "maintenance reminder" like in the Honda. I like that feature. Wahhh. It tells me when the dealership wants some of my money.
    - The central LCD screen is hard to read. I didn't even realize there was a CRUISE indicator on it 'til I looked very closely. It's like they cheaped out on it big time.
    - The knobs to select the screen read-outs are these tiny pins in the dashboard. You have to reach around the steering wheel to get to them. Dumb.
    - Rear seating didn't seem too bad. My head didn't hit (I'm 6'1")...Score!
    - I wasn't too big on looking at materials, etc, but I did notice the short and cheapy visors. Fit and finish overall seemed good.
    - You expect a car like this to be a "tin can". Nope. It's tight, it doesn't "feel" cavernous inside. It doesn't rock going around corners. Nice.

    In my short loop, I did a mile or so better MPG in the stick (30 or 31 vs. about 29, according to the on-board computer). The 12-mile loops weren't identical, though, but very similar. You can't tell much from a short run, but it was nice to see 30mpg on a cold day with an idiot behind the wheel who can't drive the damn things, doing 50% back roads. Score for the Impreza. For the record, my Civic's lifetime MPG after almost 4 years is 40.39, something that's hard to trade away unless you really really want a hatch for your stuff. As someone else posted, 4WD is a "nice to have".

    The sales guy said that he delivers cars and gets 33-34mpg regularly along the highway per the trip computer...not necessarily watching his speed...ahem...

    My bottom line: I want a stick, but with the possible larger number of gear changes I think the Impreza would be a bit of work on longer trips (am I getting OLD or what!!?!!?). I also really don't like the clutch. The radio could be better, the visors longer, the shift knob more palm-friendly---not deal breakers. The hatch space couldn't be any better unless you had a black hole and some space distortion riding around with you. But, in the end, it may not be the "right" car for me. I hopped back into the Civic to head home and realized how easy--and downright FUN--it is for me to drive, plus the good mpg. Maybe I don't need AWD. But, jeez...that cavernous hatch would be really good. Have you ever tried to get a bicycle, a pile of musical instruments, or camping gear in and out of a Civic coupe? Yeah, annoying.

    Oh, the dealer I went to was great, and there was zero pressure. I'm going to think about this some more, and if I decide to go for it (despite my concerns), I will go back.

    Well, there's my long-winded, semi-grumpy, semi-disappointing (to me...I wanted to instantly *love* this car in a big way and have NO questions in my head!) review of a 2012 Impreza by a Honda guy who's never really driven a Subaru. Yes, Your Mileage May Vary. And maybe I just don't "get" this car...but if I did, I'm sure it'd grow on me...especially since I could probably sleep in the back next to about half the contents of my house...while NOT getting stuck in the snow...ever.

    ...kl...
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    bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    ...and people wonder why I only buy hatchbacks? :shades:
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    edited January 2012
    Excellent review. :)

    I also have driven both the 5-speed and CVT, and I think I agree with you in that the CVT seems to be the better choice.

    Now my daily driver is a '09 WRX 5-door Premium, so when I drove the the '12 Impreza 5-speed, my first thought was the clutch was disconnected as it was sooooooo light. When I got back in my WRX, my clutch felt heavy!

    Speaking of the WRX: sounds like you should consider this car. Yeah, you'll give up some mpg, but it always puts a smile on your face when behind the wheel. :)

    Bob
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    bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Any word on how long before the WRedsign?
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    edited January 2012
    No, not yet.

    Rumor has it that it will be a 2.0 turbo, either based off the BRZ's FA20 (I hope so) engine, or off the Impreza's FB20 (I hope not) engine; putting out ~ 270 hp.

    Bob
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    xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,836
    Nice review, kl; I enjoyed reading it.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
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    bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    THat could have decent FE too. Have to see what they do for trannies though: I can't put up with a third pedal.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited January 2012
    The Limited 5-door we ordered back in October arrived this week, a week earlier than the last Subaru estimate, which forced my MPG hand. Monday we received the call, and I shot over to the dealer to see if any vehicles were through PDI and available for test drive. They had a non-claimed CVT sedan on the lot available for demo, so my wife, daughter, and I took it for a little drive to check MPG for ourselves. We used both computers, one to average the whole drive and one to average only highway.

    The car had 4 miles on the odo. Conditions were cold, 24 degrees F, no wind, and cruising about 67 MPH on I-15 with slight changes in elevation around overpasses. We drove 10 miles one way, exited, waited at a light, and then re-entered for same highway trip back. The car was initially very cold, so we drove around town first until the light went out, and at that point reset the first computer. The second computer was reset after hitting our cruising speed.

    For the freeway portion, the computer averaged out to 37.8 MPG (US gallons). The highest was 41 when decelerating for our turnaround point, and it averaged out to nearly that again when decelerating to exit for the dealership. The average for the whole trip was at 35 MPG. That included some additional in-town driving prior to and after our freeway jaunt.

    I was more than pleased to see those numbers, even if the computer is slightly exaggerated. The handling is everything people have previously claimed, the CVT is the best I've encountered, though a little noisy at full throttle, and overall we were pleased enough to give our sales rep the thumbs up. We picked it up yesterday and now it's in an independent shop getting clear film protection placed on the hood, fenders, bumper, lamps, mirrors, and underneath the splash guards. That last location is a custom one I asked for after seeing how flexible the splash guards are, which could cause paint damage when they flex with grit caught between the guard and panel. I want the guards to prevent stone chips on the rocker panels, wheel well, and doors, but don't want those protective guards to cause damage to other areas.

    I'll let the film dry in our garage tomorrow and install our accessories (thanks Subaru for the $500 pre-order incentive!), and Friday we'll start putting some miles on.
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    kanjiikanjii Member Posts: 99
    I wish Subaru could give us new Subie owners an incentive of some kind, even if we orderd the car after the $500 incentive program was over. I ordered mine in November :cry:
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    paopao Member Posts: 1,867
    must be dependent on the dealership....I ordered my 5DR limited the middle of Nov and picked it up the middle of Dec.....about 3 and half weeks from order to delivery...not sure why others are waiting so long.....Oct-Jan???? I ordered a fully loaded limited with accessories and Nav and got it very quickly from my dealer in MD.......this was the second Subie we have purchased from the dealer but the first ordered....I simply emailed my sales rep..told him what I wanted and he ordered it for me without any deposit or sales contract.......
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    mmyk72mmyk72 Member Posts: 67
    picked it up yesterday and now it's in an independent shop getting clear film protection.... Is this a painted product or an actual film (like window tinting). Does it last or will it wear off quickly? Cost?

    Very interested in it since my current car has lots of dings on the paint (maybe because I used to drive hwy mostly). I want to keep the new car 'new' as long as possible after I get it.... in a few months.
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    mmyk72mmyk72 Member Posts: 67
    Kltron, Great write up. I tested the 5 Dr Premium CVT and had a similar feel to what you said. I didn't mess with the radios, air, etc. functions come to think of it.

    Driving an Integra now (17+ yrs) and it's hard to give that up.... very sweet, great mpg, dependable. But I'm thinking maybe it's time to get an AWD and the hatch so I can put something big into my car finally. I'm so used to noise from the Teg that anything is more quiet. Also I must be getting old because I'm starting to like the smooth buffered feel going over bumps vs. feeling every crack on the road when driving the Teg.
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    The closest comparison would be those clear films you can put on mobile phones to prevent scratches and dings. The most common name is Clear Bra, but I'm not a personal fan of that particular material. I actually wanted Avery Nanofusion material, but production has been limited and in the 10 weeks waiting for the Impreza, the shop hasn't been able to get any rolls. I went with Ventureshield instead, and it's the material the shop guys use on their own vehicles. They carry multiple brands, but prefer the Ventureshield, which is very smooth and glossy to better blend with the paint finish. Warranty is 5 years, but typically they go much longer than that. It's applied nearly the same way as you would a window tint.

    The cost will be $500 for the full application including 20" of hood protection (measured from the leading edge towards the windshield). In my area we salt our roads with a mixture of salt/sand/BOULDERS. Chips and dings are common and I want to keep this Impreza for quite some time.
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    It was a long wait. Our sales rep thought it might have been our configuration. We ordered a Limited with no sunroof, and a sunroof is a deal killer for us, so we weren't willing to bend on that particular feature (or lack of). There was a couple picking up their Premium 5-door at the same time yesterday and their wait was only 4 weeks, but it was a more typical configuration. The timing actually worked fantastic for us as I just gave up my company car last week.
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    ecotrklvrecotrklvr Member Posts: 519
    edited January 2012
    Really good post. I'm looking at this car as well, as I am moving ot Michigan this year. You've touched on many of the things that matter to me. Comparing Stick to Auto is a key thing when there is a Stick in the offing. I see it as: "a Average Stick is better than a Good Auto. But a Good Auto is preferable to a Bad Stick". I sold my Stick AWD 1999 CR-V awhile back, and I miss driving it.

    Since then I've had Highlanders and now a FWD Santa Fe - all nice, but all Autos. The Santa Fe has a Very Good Auto (6-spd) with manual control option. Pretty good compromise - it will NOT upshift without you telling it to. And, if you have the accelerator pressed, it'll do a decent manual downshift when, say, entering a corner. I got a great deal on it last year. Now with hindsight, I wish I had opted for an AWD Kia Sportage, which has this same Auto, and a Very Good AWD System. Maybe as good as the Auto version of the Subie - but the Stick version of the Subie AWD is different AND better than the Auto version.

    The other up-and-comers are the yet-to-released Ford Escape. the Mazda CX-5 (with a stick!) and the just released Honda CR-V. Can't wait to try them out.
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    paopao Member Posts: 1,867
    you are probably correct..why was the moon roof a deal killer for you..just curious......most production lines run a set configuration for a designated period of time....then down time to convert to run another.....but still...3-4 months is a long time based on what others are seeing....glad you finally got it...enjoy! Getting ready to roll 2500 miles on mine and only had it a month so far.......its my commuter
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    mmyk72mmyk72 Member Posts: 67
    Tyguy, thanks! Is it like window tint which means it's pretty much glued on or is it like cell phone films that you easily peel right off and put back on and held in place via static?

    My current car has window tint that got all screwed up and it looked horrible. When I tried to remove it, I had to scrape away at in inch by inch.... hope it's not like that.

    Same here about salt/sand used on roads. I do want my next car to not have as many paint chips since I plan to keep it as long as possible.
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    No problem. Glad to help. The clear film is meant to stick. There's an adhesive back like a sticker, and the technicians apply soapy water to both the adhesive and the car to orient the film on the car panel. And then they slowly work out the water and bubbles from the center out, using a mixture of water/alcohol to firmly stick the film in strategic areas. It takes about two days to fully dry. Here's a quick video showing the basics:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPpalJG01HY

    Removing the film isn't too difficult provided the right steps are followed. It won't come up in pieces like a tint film, but you do need to apply heat and soften the adhesive before pulling it up. A heat gun works perfect. The primary complication in removing the film is if a major rock impact damaged the paint under the film, and the film is holding the paint together. When the film comes off, so does that damaged paint.

    Clear films aren't perfect, but I figure they're better than leaving the paint unprotected.
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    Thanks for the well wishes, pao! We're excited and very pleased. I just picked it up from having the film protection applied, and now I'll let it sit in the garage for two days to fully cure before heading out in the snow storms currently hitting us. That'll give me time to mount the accessories.

    As for the sunroof it's a personal thing. We've had two cars with sunroofs and never used them. My eyes are light sensitive and I don't like the overhead light messing with my vision, so I always kept the roofs closed. Add to the fact I'm somewhat tall and my family is even taller, and loosing 1.5" to 2" of headroom isn't an option. And there's the mechanical complexity and potential for leaks. So, for us, paying the money and not using the feature just doesn't make sense. I'm just glad Subaru has the option to get a high level trim without a sunroof; try that in a Honda :mad:
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    007fil007fil Member Posts: 9
    I just ordered my 5dr Limited, and can't wait to get it, but dealer said it will take 6 to 8 weeks as of last Saturday. Yikes!!

    Does anyone know why it's taking so long to ship the Imprezas?

    How do you like your Limited, how's it driving so far?
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    techdudetechdude Member Posts: 87
    I got the same estimate 6 to 8 weeks. It's the only reason i'm not pulling the trigger. Winter will be pretty much over by then so why rush to get it? Also, i wonder if Subaru is more inclined to deal once the weather gets warmer and the thoughts for awd fade from consumers minds. If i can get through the winter with my current car, i'd be happy, but if it gives up on me i would probably settle for the Focus since it's readily available and a few thousand less than the impreza.
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    jpc44jpc44 Member Posts: 1
    "- but the Stick version of the Subie AWD is different AND better than the Auto version. "
    Can someone explain this? Why is it better?
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    malachai1malachai1 Member Posts: 40
    I think because the stick is 50/50 front and back and the auto is 60/40 intill it needs it then goes 50/50
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    kanjiikanjii Member Posts: 99
    Fun factor maybe? :blush: I bought mine as a 5 speed because I miss driving a stick so much. It used to really suck driving a stick on hills, but with the technology that subie has to hold you until the clutch is engaged makes it so much better to drive in San Francisco :P
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    shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Funny thing about the hill holder feature; that was one of the features I talked up about the Impreza when I was giving my wife an overview of new cars which met the criteria she'd set down for her next car. Unfortunately (or not, depending on ones perspective) she took one look at a new black GTI and dug her heels in; that's the car she wanted, and that's the car she got.

    So what does this have to do with "hill holder"? While I didn't know this going in, and I've yet to see anything in writing which says so, her new GTI has a three second hill holder feature as well. I thought only Subarus had that feature. Go figure.
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    paopao Member Posts: 1,867
    not sure how I got mine so quick.....but am enjoying it.....2500 miles on it in a month..no complains...29.x average MPG...some are complaining they are getting more...but Im happy with mine so far....nothing wrong with the car..no rattles...drives firm...love the leather seating....etc....guess I was fortunate enough to get my in a little over three weeks.....mine was one of the first delivered to my dealership......my rep talked/leaned me away from the Ford Focus to the Impreza and Im glad he did....obviously they are a Ford dealership as well.....

    as far as pricing and waiting.....looking across the forums...those in the NE and true snow areas are paying more than those of us not in the winter areas....in MD outside of DC......I got under invoice pricing......some NE dealerships are selling only at MSRP is my understanding.....so geographic location is apparently influencing pricing heavily.....
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    xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,836
    Is it 60/40 on the CVT? The system used with the automatic was generally 90/10 that could be diverted up to 50/50. If so, that's good. I rarely slip a tire on my Forester with manual transmission simply because the 50/50 distribution splits the power so well. With my auto Subarus, they were much easier to break loose.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, it starts with a bias towards the front, then adjusts as necessary.

    The viscous coupling on the manuals defaults to 50/50.
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    kanjiikanjii Member Posts: 99
    GTIs are very sweet. I was looking at older used ones for a while, but sold my Xterra and still wanted 4WD or AWD with much better gas mileage. That's why the Impreza won. And it's a little cheaper than a GTI.
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    angitheriasangitherias Member Posts: 34
    Are the base models noisier in the cab then the sport and limited models? Has anyone noticed a difference? I was told other than the features, mechanically all models are the same, but I've read a post saying otherwise, unless it was just salesman BS. Sales Manager in my area is pushing the Touring (Canadian, beleive its premium in the states) model over the sport, I test drove a premium and I thought road noise was comparable to my '97 legacy outback, but if the sport model is quiter, I'd like to go with that instead. I'm on the fence between the two.
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    2012imprezaguy2012imprezaguy Member Posts: 1
    I benefited from looking what everyone else paid, so I figured I'd post mine. I got a Sport Premium 5 speed in Dark Grey for $400 under invoice. Car was purchased in Maine, so definitely where snow is a concern.

    Always wanted a manual transmission, not a ton of experience driving them though, so I had a lot of fun coming home from the dealership!
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    007fil007fil Member Posts: 9
    Thanks for the input, I'll be looking forward to it.
    How are you with the CVT shifting, is it better gas milage when using the paddle shifters?

    Any one else have opinions on the CVT, and MPG?
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    paopao Member Posts: 1,867
    the transmission shifts smoother than my 09 cadillac CTS to be honest...the auto is rated higher in MPG than the manual...Im experimenting a little....starting off in 2nd in the manual mode..and with cruise on switching to manual to maintain 6th gear going down hill...as the engine does have a noticeable brake effect and downshifting to 5th at times....will tell how this works on the MPG....right now Im averaging 29.x MPG......will report back if my techniques do anything to improve mileage....also suspect will see better mileage this spring and summer outside the winter fuel blends as well...
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    kanjiikanjii Member Posts: 99
    I hear that a lot here. Is this blend everywhere or just in the colder states only?
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    onemodogonemodog Member Posts: 26
    I ordered mine (Sport Premium CVT) on New Years Eve and got a call yesterday that it was in. Picking it up on Sunday!!
    I was told 6 weeks (or less). I received a call from my dealer last Wednesday (the 11th) saying it would be in the 20th. Arrived the 19th.
    Pretty excited.
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    mmyk72mmyk72 Member Posts: 67
    edited January 2012
    I ordered mine (Sport Premium CVT) on New Years Eve and got a call yesterday........ So how much $$?
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    onemodogonemodog Member Posts: 26
    I ordered it with no options.
    $20500 + tax and license...I think (I left my planner at home today).
    I got it for $500 below invoice...might be 20750....either way, I was pretty happy with the price. It was the second lowest I had found in the area by $100 and the dealer is 8 miles away compared to the other cheaper dealer that is 50 miles away.
    Im in the San Franciso Bay Area.
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    mmyk72mmyk72 Member Posts: 67
    Thanks! $500 below invoice... not bad. In fact, one of the best so far I think. Thumbs up for you. Enjoy your new car!
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    techdudetechdude Member Posts: 87
    I'm thinking about pulling the trigger on the the hatch, but was wondering if i should wait if Subaru releases any new incentives after January. The dealer i'm working with told me Subaru is not known for any drastic changes in their incentives, but what do you guys think? Even if i order one now, i still wouldn't take delivery until late Feb early March anyway.
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    prestcoprestco Member Posts: 10
    ordered limited white/ w/ moonroof/ cargo tray/ splash guards/auto dim mirror/ all weather mats'/ rear bumper applique/ rear seat protector/
    out the door price $24509.58
    Is this price reasonable?
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    007fil007fil Member Posts: 9
    I'm from the southern CA. area, and I had 1 dealer offering me up to $800 off of MSRP. This same sales person 3 weeks prior said that no dealer in my area was taking any thing off cause these cars were hot. So, I believe they have incentives, and they are not telling you. Be patient, and wait them out. I put my order in with another dealer, and I'm waiting till March to get mine, still at about $800 under MSRP. Sorry for the long explanation, but that's only half of it.
    Good luck!
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    paopao Member Posts: 1,867
    assuming you ordered the sedan...trucar is showing an dealer cost of approx 21.9, invoice of 22.6 and average mkt price of 23.....so looking at your estimated TTL looks like you got it at invoice or slightly higher....of course not knowing your tax %, doc fees, registration fees, or trade in if any, its hard to exact....

    what was the cost of car prior to TTL?
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    prestcoprestco Member Posts: 10
    thanks
    actually it's a hatchback , taxes are 8.25% CA ,price is out the door all fee's etc. included
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    prestcoprestco Member Posts: 10
    price before before TTL $22,061
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    prestcoprestco Member Posts: 10
    cost prior to TTL was $22,061
    Thanks
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    paopao Member Posts: 1,867
    then I would say you got a heck of a deal..as Im showing the price well below the dealer cost of 22350, invoice cost 23100....for limited HB, moonroof, pkg#1, splashguards, and seat back protector on trucar.com....cant see how the dealer didnt take a significant loss on this one....
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    ineedmoneyineedmoney Member Posts: 8
    Ordered a DGM Hatchback Base model with no options. California MSRP was $19,000 thanks to PZEV. Picked it up for $17,925 before TTL. Dealer sheet showed $200 below invoice.
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