A Mechanic's Life - Tales From Under the Hood

roadburner

A good friend of mine is a retired airframe mechanic; he -like me- is a long time BMW owner. He recently called me with a couple of questions knowing I was a BMW product specialist a few years back. I knew the answer to one quetion but the other had me stumped. His wife's X5 was showing that it had downloaded an OTA update but was not installing it. The BMW Genius hotline would only keep telling him the problem was a weak battery and his local dealer likewise had no clue what was going on. Fortunately for my friend I had to take the Club Sport to my dealer for a PDR. While there I asked my service advisor about the question and he referred me to the current product specialist. She knew exactly what the problem was, and told my friend if he'd drop she'd have a service tech resolve the issue. Unfortunately, my friend lives 5 hours away, and is now faced with the daunting prospect of convicing his local dealer that there is actually a solution to the issue. I blame BMW NA for this situation, as I ran across it myself. Solutions to problems are often rolled out to the service departments on a piecemeal basis or you have to know the right person to call at Woodcliff Lake.

thecardoc3

It's sometimes referred to as "Just in Time Training" and otherwise just accepted that there is just too much information for anyone person to know today. OTA (Over the air) updates create their own niche issue where there quite literally is no incentive for the service techs to put studying any of them into their ever-growing list of things they need to know. Being OTA means techs who are only paid for exactly what they do and nothing else, don't get compensated for doing the update let alone concern themselves with any associated failures of one. They also don't get paid for any of their own time that they would have to spend researching something that they don't know can happen and potentially never see occur. This is what the OE's deserve when the attempt to cut the technicians (and the dealers) out of the loop turns around and fails. The technician's time is better spent concentrating on things that have the potential to generate personal growth and income. I'd be interested to see just how the product specialist acquired information about "the problem". I'm betting it's safe to say that it wasn't something that she had to analyze and solve with her own knowledge and skills like the technicians would actually be expected to do.

roadburner

When I worked at my BMW dealership and we had trouble isolating an issue we simply gave the client a loaner that was equivalent or better to his/her car and told them we'd call when we had the issue solved. One time it took a Service Advisor and myself four days to figure out what was going on with a flaky telematics module in an X5. Tje car had a mobile hotspot that we could not activate; it took me calling AT&T for a couple of days to isolate the problem on their end. A couple of days later my SA buttonholed a trainer from Woodcliff Late while he was there to train some new techs. He talked to NA and they authorized replacing the entire telematics module under warranty. I shared the issue and solution on the private Genius email forum- which is how I often was able to solve a perplexing problem.

thecardoc3

I have had a number of cars through the years that took several days and some cases a couple weeks to prove and analyze some obscure issue. At best I was given some gravy work to help recoup the unpaid time. The vast majority of those events were unpaid time making the effort to solve those concerns a thankless endeavor.

Here is a example of a recent vehicle issue.
C1A67:86-0B Foward Looking Sensor
B14F0:87-0B Forward Sensing Camera
B14F2:86-0B Rear Side Radar
U0126:00-0B Lost Communication with Steering Angle Sensor Module

There is a TSB for the C1A67:86-0B requiring replacement of the forward looking sensor. The technician has to seal an opening on the replacement part to help prevent water intrusion. But a question still lurks, does that fault explain the other codes being reported by the Vehicle Control Module?

Here is a screenshot of the dash during one of the events which took about a week to get to occur.

Notice how it says the system is partially disabled. When I got it to occur, I was able to prove that the blind spot detection (rear side radar) and the lane departure warning and assist (Forward sensing camera and steering angle sensor) were all still functional. The only thing that was shut down is the forward radar.

These were captured by and cut from a video of the event.

xwesx

Haha; I read that error message on the display and thought that it was a very tactful way of saying, "Aw, buddy.... you're on your own out there! May God have mercy on your soul." LOL

guitarzan

thecardoc3 said:

It's sometimes referred to as "Just in Time Training" and otherwise just accepted that there is just too much information for anyone person to know today. OTA (Over the air) updates create their own niche issue where there quite literally is no incentive for the service techs to put studying any of them into their ever-growing list of things they need to know.

Is formal training required for every issue, in order for the tech to be able to do it? Cannot technicians lookup an issue in the database and work through the tasks on their own? Is it disallowed to work on an issue without formal training on it? Does everyone leave it up to HQ to document procedures or can individuals who first perform a fix share the procedure?

thecardoc3

guitarzan said:

Is formal training required for every issue, in order for the tech to be able to do it?

Required? No. In fact it's a good thing that formal training isn't required because almost nobody has been teaching at the kind of level that some things demand today.

guitarzan said:

Cannot technicians lookup an issue in the database and work through the tasks on their own?

The manufacturers set up training for their dealer technicians and they create service information and diagnostic trouble trees for technicians to follow. But there is one major flaw with any diagnostic trouble tree that a manufacturer creates. That flaw is the problem has to be there 100% of the time that a technician attempts to follow the published routine. There is no way to write a trouble tree for a problem that is only there once in a while and this ADAS failure is a perfect example of such a problem.

As far as a repair database goes, we are right back to every vehicle needs to be analyzed as it's own unique event. What might have been done with another vehicle that appears to have similar symptoms could easily have nothing in common with one that a technician is currently working on. Even then someone is always going to be the first person to encounter a given issue and he/she needs to have the knowledge and skill to solve a problem that no-one has ever seen before, otherwise how could a database ever be created?

guitarzan said:

Is it disallowed to work on an issue without formal training on it?

There isn't a perfect yes or no answer here. In the dealership world, in order for the repairs to be paid for by the manufacturer, the dealer "usually" has to have someone who has attended training on the vehicle and system being serviced. That doesn't aways mean that the person actually attending to the vehicle is the one who attended the training, but it is encouraged and a dealer risks being charged back if any problems are discovered.

guitarzan said:

Does everyone leave it up to HQ to document procedures or can individuals who first perform a fix share the procedure?

Things that someone like myself in the aftermarket encounter can be shared with other technicians through a number of venues. The manufacturers neither solicit nor collect any information that we produce.

thecardoc3

https://www.wsj.com/articles/car-repair-shortage-service-e1e06b0f?st=f0ctlf5ilurk7v5&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

It's not surprising that many of the comments provide advice that serves to make the shortage of technicians worse.

thecardoc3

Here is a series of video's discussing the challenges of managing a dealer service department, most of which examine technician recruitment and retention. A lot of it is very good, "but" instead of fully laying out all of the problems, some of the most obvious one's from the technician's point of view are touched very delicately. The last link about technician wellness survey's should make anyone pause when they discuss technician suicide rates. Who would have thought that career wise they are in the top 5%.

https://www.autonews.com/service-and-parts/recruit-young-techs-reducing-stress-service-departments

Overheard: Young technicians concerned about mental wellness
A technician wellness advocate says if the auto service industry wants to recruit young people, it must be mindful that they prioritize their mental health.

"In a recent survey by Forbes, Generation Z listed mental wellness as their primary focus going forward. It's the first time that survey has ever been performed on a generation and [the priority] wasn't income. ... We got a technician shortage — and I believe it's not necessarily a technician shortage, it's an apprentice shortage. And I look at it as apprentices or any technician that's got less than five years of experience. We want new people into our trade. Well, that's Generation Z. If their focus is mental wellness, so should our focus be. What can we do as leaders to improve the environment around these folks so that they have less anxiety, less stress, less conflict, less challenges in their day? What challenges and what barriers can we remove from their day to improve it?" — Joshua Taylor on another consideration in the technician recruitment effort, speaking on the "Fixed Ops 5" podcast hosted by Corey Smith. Taylor is publisher of the Wrenches for Wrenches newsletter, host of the "The Wrench Turner's Podcast" and a technician wellness advocate.
https://players.brightcove.net/716708064/MrvuUOdSt_default/index.html?playlistId=1758644756280076833'

roadburner

I mentioned this in another thread, but a few weeks ago, my wife mentioned that one of her friends has a newer Honda and that the paint is peeling off of the roof. I did some online searching and found that there is a TSB that addresses the issue. So, she took it to the local dealer. The service manager took pictures and said the photos needed to be sent to Honda for approval. Fair enough, but since then it has been a fiasco. No calls or updates, no returned calls, etc. The last straw was last week- she was sent an agreement to sign that stated that the windshield would need to be removed and that she would be responsible for paying for if it was broken by the dealer.
She complained to Honda USA and Honda is apparently siding with her. However, the damage is done; the friend has said she will never buy another Honda. Just another example of how the dealer experience can completely destroy any brand loyalty...

roadburner

Yesterday I noticed that the LR tire on the C43 had developed a slow leak. I drove to the Tire Discounters just around the corner from my house. The manager was there and he told me that they don't repair run-flat tires (he must have been at lunch when the same shop repaired a RFT on my wife's X1). I explained that I had not run the tire flat -it was showing 30 psi- but no dice. So, I ended up pumping the tire up to the maximum number on the sidewall and driving it to my M-B dealer just 30 minutes before the service department closed. I had to leave it at the dealer but the SA said that the tire would be patched if it was safe to do so.
The dealer called me at 10 am this morning and told me the C43 was ready to be picked up. The tire was able to be repaired- for the princely sum of $49.20.

guitarzan

roadburner said:

The manager was there and he told me that they don't repair run-flat tires (he must have been at lunch when the same shop repaired a RFT on my wife's X1).

The propensity of auto and particularly motorcycle shops to pick and choose what work they will do is a major irritant for me. I cannot imagine saying to senior business analysts, "No we do not do that kind of coding, choose something else that you need help with." That is not how it works in the the real world, the working world of all of us who use vehicles. We solve the work presented to us...or else.

roadburner

guitarzan said:

roadburner said:

The manager was there and he told me that they don't repair run-flat tires (he must have been at lunch when the same shop repaired a RFT on my wife's X1).

The propensity of auto and particularly motorcycle shops to pick and choose what work they will do is a major irritant for me. I cannot imagine saying to senior business analysts, "No we do not do that kind of coding, choose something else that you need help with." That is not how it works in the the real world, the working world of all of us who use vehicles. We solve the work presented to us...or else.

On top of all that the manager told me how "special equipment" was needed to dismount/mount and repair the tire. I decided not to mention the X1 tire for fear of getting who ever authorized that repair into hot water. And at the end of the day my M-B dealer charged less to repair the tire than Tire Discounters did to repair the RFT on the X1.

roadburner

Correction: Tire Discounters charged $7.48 less for the RFT repair.

thecardoc3

Typical tire machine, a newer version of the one that I own. https://www.alltiresupply.com/products/coats-rc-45-air-rim-clamp-tire-changer?currency=USD&variant=32595868549194&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google Shopping&stkn=267263f91414&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=&utm_content=&gad=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwseSoBhBXEiwA9iZtxnli5Auntm-x74anLmLdOCbEqVgEQf_piumOIv2KqnsxbmW4LWXxVRoCyeAQAvD_BwE

Here is a common run-flat tire machine, I'm never going to buy one and therefore turn away anything to do with R&R run-flat tires. That doesn't mean that I couldn't take them off of a wheel if I was replacing them with conventional tires and I wanted to bad enough. It's just too physically difficult to put them back on without a machine designed to do the job. https://automotiveequipmentspecialists.com/coats-rc-55e-rim-clamp-tire-changer/?_vsrefdom=adwords&gclid=CjwKCAjwseSoBhBXEiwA9iZtxnLLC6msUPf38MIoiWVloEtm0YtioRua0zjORWDsWWGl_7B0FYODGRoCJFYQAvD_BwE

For a shop that does a lot of tires they can go crazy and get one of these. https://www.bestbuyautoequipment.com/corghi-artiglio-visual-l-tire-changer-p/MasterCode.htm?gclid=CjwKCAjwseSoBhBXEiwA9iZtxjJ-kb20zXHXjGyl_I9qzR-JO0eu9dh79zv_y8OEu-9eLm6oaRar8xoCjskQAvD_BwE

xwesx

/faints

thecardoc3

xwesx said:

/faints

That's not even the most expensive one out there.

benjaminh

A day in the life of a Honda Line Tech:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDQLcbarB_Q&t=911s

thecardoc3

What she doesn't realize is there are shops other than the dealer who are making the investment required to service her car. https://www.dailydot.com/news/mechanic-not-allowed-to-fix-nissan/

thecardoc3

Here is what a shop faces today of they want to work on her Nissan.

https://www.techmatetools.com/Catalog/Product?id=NI-52925-VI3

xwesx

thecardoc3 said:

What she doesn't realize is there are shops other than the dealer who are making the investment required to service her car. https://www.dailydot.com/news/mechanic-not-allowed-to-fix-nissan/

Huh. All other bits aside, Nissan definitely uses an electric pump system for the rear brakes on their cars now. It caused all sorts of problems for me when I was trying to flush the brake fluid on my friend's NV3500 van until I finally figured out how to make it work for me to get it purged. But, why that would cause issues with being able to replace the physical parts of the brakes, I can't imagine. I'm sure the manufacturers could figure out some way. LOL

If I can work on my Audi, though, I'm sure folks can figure out ways to work on Nissans. Crazy stuff. I think Nissan sees the writing on the wall as far as their relevancy goes, and they are just trying to pull every trick they can to keep the money flowing.

thecardoc3

Many manufacturers are using a secure gateway system to regulate scan tool access to their vehicles. This is all about vehicle security and trying to prevent malicious activity. In many cases the diagnostic connector is now itself a module and all of the data buses connect to it. Then the way they write the software "requests" to perform special functions and bi-directional commands such as retracting the calipers has the scan tool have to communicate with the vehicle manufacturers system and it then sends the actual command back through the tool to the vehicle gateway. There are some aftermarket work arounds which require the purchase of special wiring harnesses that get connected in place of the secure gateway module for scan tool usage.

Shops have a process to register their scan tools called "AutoAuth". https://webapp.autoauth.com/

When they register, they have to pay a yearly fee for membership. Then record their tool serial numbers on their page and that in turn allows their tool to be used to access the vehicles through the secure gateway. While Nissan does allow access up to a point, shops are running into more holes in the system where it is being blocked and that is what has happened with the rear caliper control in the tic tok video referenced above. Currently to have full access the shop has to subscribe to the Nissan Consult III scan tool. One thing that is different from the information in this link. https://www.techmatetools.com/Catalog/Product?id=NI-52925-VI3 Nissan has backed off of requiring the purchase of a specific laptop through them. That is something that just changed in the last month but isn't reflected on the site.