A Mechanic's Life - Tales From Under the Hood

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  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,775
    A good friend of mine is a retired airframe mechanic; he -like me- is a long time BMW owner. He recently called me with a couple of questions knowing I was a BMW product specialist a few years back. I knew the answer to one quetion but the other had me stumped. His wife's X5 was showing that it had downloaded an OTA update but was not installing it. The BMW Genius hotline would only keep telling him the problem was a weak battery and his local dealer likewise had no clue what was going on. Fortunately for my friend I had to take the Club Sport to my dealer for a PDR. While there I asked my service advisor about the question and he referred me to the current product specialist. She knew exactly what the problem was, and told my friend if he'd drop she'd have a service tech resolve the issue. Unfortunately, my friend lives 5 hours away, and is now faced with the daunting prospect of convicing his local dealer that there is actually a solution to the issue. I blame BMW NA for this situation, as I ran across it myself. Solutions to problems are often rolled out to the service departments on a piecemeal basis or you have to know the right person to call at Woodcliff Lake.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-2021 Sahara 4xe-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Member Posts: 5,801
    edited June 2023
    It's sometimes referred to as "Just in Time Training" and otherwise just accepted that there is just too much information for anyone person to know today. OTA (Over the air) updates create their own niche issue where there quite literally is no incentive for the service techs to put studying any of them into their ever-growing list of things they need to know. Being OTA means techs who are only paid for exactly what they do and nothing else, don't get compensated for doing the update let alone concern themselves with any associated failures of one. They also don't get paid for any of their own time that they would have to spend researching something that they don't know can happen and potentially never see occur. This is what the OE's deserve when the attempt to cut the technicians (and the dealers) out of the loop turns around and fails. The technician's time is better spent concentrating on things that have the potential to generate personal growth and income. I'd be interested to see just how the product specialist acquired information about "the problem". I'm betting it's safe to say that it wasn't something that she had to analyze and solve with her own knowledge and skills like the technicians would actually be expected to do.
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,775
    edited June 2023
    When I worked at my BMW dealership and we had trouble isolating an issue we simply gave the client a loaner that was equivalent or better to his/her car and told them we'd call when we had the issue solved. One time it took a Service Advisor and myself four days to figure out what was going on with a flaky telematics module in an X5. Tje car had a mobile hotspot that we could not activate; it took me calling AT&T for a couple of days to isolate the problem on their end. A couple of days later my SA buttonholed a trainer from Woodcliff Late while he was there to train some new techs. He talked to NA and they authorized replacing the entire telematics module under warranty. I shared the issue and solution on the private Genius email forum- which is how I often was able to solve a perplexing problem.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-2021 Sahara 4xe-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Member Posts: 5,801
    I have had a number of cars through the years that took several days and some cases a couple weeks to prove and analyze some obscure issue. At best I was given some gravy work to help recoup the unpaid time. The vast majority of those events were unpaid time making the effort to solve those concerns a thankless endeavor.

    Here is a example of a recent vehicle issue.
    C1A67:86-0B Foward Looking Sensor
    B14F0:87-0B Forward Sensing Camera
    B14F2:86-0B Rear Side Radar
    U0126:00-0B Lost Communication with Steering Angle Sensor Module

    There is a TSB for the C1A67:86-0B requiring replacement of the forward looking sensor. The technician has to seal an opening on the replacement part to help prevent water intrusion. But a question still lurks, does that fault explain the other codes being reported by the Vehicle Control Module?

    Here is a screenshot of the dash during one of the events which took about a week to get to occur.

    Notice how it says the system is partially disabled. When I got it to occur, I was able to prove that the blind spot detection (rear side radar) and the lane departure warning and assist (Forward sensing camera and steering angle sensor) were all still functional. The only thing that was shut down is the forward radar.

    These were captured by and cut from a video of the event.





  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,160
    Haha; I read that error message on the display and thought that it was a very tactful way of saying, "Aw, buddy.... you're on your own out there! May God have mercy on your soul." LOL
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • guitarzanguitarzan Member Posts: 873

    It's sometimes referred to as "Just in Time Training" and otherwise just accepted that there is just too much information for anyone person to know today. OTA (Over the air) updates create their own niche issue where there quite literally is no incentive for the service techs to put studying any of them into their ever-growing list of things they need to know.

    Is formal training required for every issue, in order for the tech to be able to do it? Cannot technicians lookup an issue in the database and work through the tasks on their own? Is it disallowed to work on an issue without formal training on it? Does everyone leave it up to HQ to document procedures or can individuals who first perform a fix share the procedure?
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Member Posts: 5,801
    guitarzan said:


    Is formal training required for every issue, in order for the tech to be able to do it?

    Required? No. In fact it's a good thing that formal training isn't required because almost nobody has been teaching at the kind of level that some things demand today.
    guitarzan said:


    Cannot technicians lookup an issue in the database and work through the tasks on their own?

    The manufacturers set up training for their dealer technicians and they create service information and diagnostic trouble trees for technicians to follow. But there is one major flaw with any diagnostic trouble tree that a manufacturer creates. That flaw is the problem has to be there 100% of the time that a technician attempts to follow the published routine. There is no way to write a trouble tree for a problem that is only there once in a while and this ADAS failure is a perfect example of such a problem.

    As far as a repair database goes, we are right back to every vehicle needs to be analyzed as it's own unique event. What might have been done with another vehicle that appears to have similar symptoms could easily have nothing in common with one that a technician is currently working on. Even then someone is always going to be the first person to encounter a given issue and he/she needs to have the knowledge and skill to solve a problem that no-one has ever seen before, otherwise how could a database ever be created?
    guitarzan said:


    Is it disallowed to work on an issue without formal training on it?

    There isn't a perfect yes or no answer here. In the dealership world, in order for the repairs to be paid for by the manufacturer, the dealer "usually" has to have someone who has attended training on the vehicle and system being serviced. That doesn't aways mean that the person actually attending to the vehicle is the one who attended the training, but it is encouraged and a dealer risks being charged back if any problems are discovered.
    guitarzan said:


    Does everyone leave it up to HQ to document procedures or can individuals who first perform a fix share the procedure?

    Things that someone like myself in the aftermarket encounter can be shared with other technicians through a number of venues. The manufacturers neither solicit nor collect any information that we produce.

  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Member Posts: 5,801
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/car-repair-shortage-service-e1e06b0f?st=f0ctlf5ilurk7v5&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

    It's not surprising that many of the comments provide advice that serves to make the shortage of technicians worse.
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Member Posts: 5,801
    edited July 2023
    Here is a series of video's discussing the challenges of managing a dealer service department, most of which examine technician recruitment and retention. A lot of it is very good, "but" instead of fully laying out all of the problems, some of the most obvious one's from the technician's point of view are touched very delicately. The last link about technician wellness survey's should make anyone pause when they discuss technician suicide rates. Who would have thought that career wise they are in the top 5%.

    https://www.autonews.com/service-and-parts/recruit-young-techs-reducing-stress-service-departments

    Overheard: Young technicians concerned about mental wellness
    A technician wellness advocate says if the auto service industry wants to recruit young people, it must be mindful that they prioritize their mental health.

    "In a recent survey by Forbes, Generation Z listed mental wellness as their primary focus going forward. It's the first time that survey has ever been performed on a generation and [the priority] wasn't income. ... We got a technician shortage — and I believe it's not necessarily a technician shortage, it's an apprentice shortage. And I look at it as apprentices or any technician that's got less than five years of experience. We want new people into our trade. Well, that's Generation Z. If their focus is mental wellness, so should our focus be. What can we do as leaders to improve the environment around these folks so that they have less anxiety, less stress, less conflict, less challenges in their day? What challenges and what barriers can we remove from their day to improve it?" — Joshua Taylor on another consideration in the technician recruitment effort, speaking on the "Fixed Ops 5" podcast hosted by Corey Smith. Taylor is publisher of the Wrenches for Wrenches newsletter, host of the "The Wrench Turner's Podcast" and a technician wellness advocate.
    https://players.brightcove.net/716708064/MrvuUOdSt_default/index.html?playlistId=1758644756280076833'
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,775

    I mentioned this in another thread, but a few weeks ago, my wife mentioned that one of her friends has a newer Honda and that the paint is peeling off of the roof. I did some online searching and found that there is a TSB that addresses the issue. So, she took it to the local dealer. The service manager took pictures and said the photos needed to be sent to Honda for approval. Fair enough, but since then it has been a fiasco. No calls or updates, no returned calls, etc. The last straw was last week- she was sent an agreement to sign that stated that the windshield would need to be removed and that she would be responsible for paying for if it was broken by the dealer.
    She complained to Honda USA and Honda is apparently siding with her. However, the damage is done; the friend has said she will never buy another Honda. Just another example of how the dealer experience can completely destroy any brand loyalty...

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-2021 Sahara 4xe-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,775
    Yesterday I noticed that the LR tire on the C43 had developed a slow leak. I drove to the Tire Discounters just around the corner from my house. The manager was there and he told me that they don't repair run-flat tires (he must have been at lunch when the same shop repaired a RFT on my wife's X1). I explained that I had not run the tire flat -it was showing 30 psi- but no dice. So, I ended up pumping the tire up to the maximum number on the sidewall and driving it to my M-B dealer just 30 minutes before the service department closed. I had to leave it at the dealer but the SA said that the tire would be patched if it was safe to do so.
    The dealer called me at 10 am this morning and told me the C43 was ready to be picked up. The tire was able to be repaired- for the princely sum of $49.20.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-2021 Sahara 4xe-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • guitarzanguitarzan Member Posts: 873

    The manager was there and he told me that they don't repair run-flat tires (he must have been at lunch when the same shop repaired a RFT on my wife's X1).

    The propensity of auto and particularly motorcycle shops to pick and choose what work they will do is a major irritant for me. I cannot imagine saying to senior business analysts, "No we do not do that kind of coding, choose something else that you need help with." That is not how it works in the the real world, the working world of all of us who use vehicles. We solve the work presented to us...or else.

  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,775
    guitarzan said:

    The manager was there and he told me that they don't repair run-flat tires (he must have been at lunch when the same shop repaired a RFT on my wife's X1).

    The propensity of auto and particularly motorcycle shops to pick and choose what work they will do is a major irritant for me. I cannot imagine saying to senior business analysts, "No we do not do that kind of coding, choose something else that you need help with." That is not how it works in the the real world, the working world of all of us who use vehicles. We solve the work presented to us...or else.

    On top of all that the manager told me how "special equipment" was needed to dismount/mount and repair the tire. I decided not to mention the X1 tire for fear of getting who ever authorized that repair into hot water. And at the end of the day my M-B dealer charged less to repair the tire than Tire Discounters did to repair the RFT on the X1.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-2021 Sahara 4xe-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,775

    Correction: Tire Discounters charged $7.48 less for the RFT repair.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-2021 Sahara 4xe-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Member Posts: 5,801
    edited October 2023
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,160
    /faints
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Member Posts: 5,801
    xwesx said:

    /faints

    That's not even the most expensive one out there.
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,373
    A day in the life of a Honda Line Tech:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDQLcbarB_Q&t=911s
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2024 Subaru Outback (wife's), 2018 Honda CR-V EX (offspring)
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Member Posts: 5,801
    What she doesn't realize is there are shops other than the dealer who are making the investment required to service her car. https://www.dailydot.com/news/mechanic-not-allowed-to-fix-nissan/
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Member Posts: 5,801
    Here is what a shop faces today of they want to work on her Nissan.

    https://www.techmatetools.com/Catalog/Product?id=NI-52925-VI3
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,160
    edited March 27

    What she doesn't realize is there are shops other than the dealer who are making the investment required to service her car. https://www.dailydot.com/news/mechanic-not-allowed-to-fix-nissan/

    Huh. All other bits aside, Nissan definitely uses an electric pump system for the rear brakes on their cars now. It caused all sorts of problems for me when I was trying to flush the brake fluid on my friend's NV3500 van until I finally figured out how to make it work for me to get it purged. But, why that would cause issues with being able to replace the physical parts of the brakes, I can't imagine. I'm sure the manufacturers could figure out some way. LOL

    If I can work on my Audi, though, I'm sure folks can figure out ways to work on Nissans. Crazy stuff. I think Nissan sees the writing on the wall as far as their relevancy goes, and they are just trying to pull every trick they can to keep the money flowing.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Member Posts: 5,801
    edited March 28
    Many manufacturers are using a secure gateway system to regulate scan tool access to their vehicles. This is all about vehicle security and trying to prevent malicious activity. In many cases the diagnostic connector is now itself a module and all of the data buses connect to it. Then the way they write the software "requests" to perform special functions and bi-directional commands such as retracting the calipers has the scan tool have to communicate with the vehicle manufacturers system and it then sends the actual command back through the tool to the vehicle gateway. There are some aftermarket work arounds which require the purchase of special wiring harnesses that get connected in place of the secure gateway module for scan tool usage.

    Shops have a process to register their scan tools called "AutoAuth". https://webapp.autoauth.com/

    When they register, they have to pay a yearly fee for membership. Then record their tool serial numbers on their page and that in turn allows their tool to be used to access the vehicles through the secure gateway. While Nissan does allow access up to a point, shops are running into more holes in the system where it is being blocked and that is what has happened with the rear caliper control in the tic tok video referenced above. Currently to have full access the shop has to subscribe to the Nissan Consult III scan tool. One thing that is different from the information in this link. https://www.techmatetools.com/Catalog/Product?id=NI-52925-VI3 Nissan has backed off of requiring the purchase of a specific laptop through them. That is something that just changed in the last month but isn't reflected on the site.
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Member Posts: 5,801
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,775
    I have no problem with that. I can't imagine calling another shop with a tech question when you bought from someone else.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-2021 Sahara 4xe-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,160
    Amen to that!
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Member Posts: 5,801
    Gotta love this little story that I have going on. I have been on the watch for a used truck but everything I was able to look at just didn't pique my interest. Then I happened across a 2004 Dodge Rumble Bee #821 iirc. Yeah, it's got some corrosion that needs attention but most of that is underneath and just surface stuff which since it doesn't have to be pretty is well within my comfort range. The one bed side was showing some corrosion and there was a ding in the tail gate that they were already going to repair. After taking a good look at it and weighing my options I asked that they pull the molding on the other side of the bed and handle whatever they found there too and for that I offered them their asking price. I'm not a big haggler, never have been. I don't do "pretty", repair like that takes talent that just don't have and instead of haggling a price which I have never been comfortable doing anyway I felt good with the offer, besides they were already doing the right hand bedside. They accepted and gave me a signed agreement and I put $500 down.

    At 100K it is in excellent shape especially for a western Pa. vehicle and other than the body issues there is nothing there that I can't handle if it would ever need anything. It will be a great toy to add to my little collection. The only times this would be on the road is when I need to tow my tractor somewhere or to maybe go to a car show. It' will never see snow again, I have other vehicles for that.

    So, they proceed to pull the molding and doing the numbers realized there was way more that needed done than they were figuring for. The salesman called and said that they don't want to lose money on the deal and would rather just send it to the auction. I'm more than willing to work with them but it really doesn't feel right. He didn't have any real numbers and was just guessing. I told him, get me the number for what the internal R.O. change in price is and let's talk. Then he said" What about the stripe on the bed? Its $450". Do you care if they have to take that off?

    Well fortunately if push comes to shove I can find the set of Rumble Bee decals and stripes for about $160. I can even get a complete southern bed for $1300 (That's less than the bedside repairs would be) and I have someone that will paint it. We will see tomorrow where they stand. I'm really not interested in doing some kind of renegotiation. But if they are willing to go low enough, I know what it would take to fix what needs done.


  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,775
    edited May 8
    This time a year ago I was looking for a two door short bed 4x4 pickup with an eye to replacing my 1999 Wrangler. I would have bought a Rumble Bee in a nanosecond if one had turned up anywhere close to me. As it happened there weren't any around and we decided to downsize the fleet and replaced the Wrangler and the Clubman with a used 4xe. I still think that the Rumble Bee would have been a hoot, however.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-2021 Sahara 4xe-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,160
    Looks decent for the age! That's a solid 20-footer. I can't imagine that type of repairs, if done even remotely right, is cheap, though.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Member Posts: 5,801
    The photo's don't do it justice. It's in fantastic condition overall. The interior has had seat covers on it for a long time. I can't wait to get them pulled back just to see how well the leather has been protected. Apparently this was an elderly couple and after he passed away she just didn't want it anymore. It's clearly spent more days inside a garage than out of one. You really have to look close to see hints of the concern. The bubbles are visible above the right rear wheel well. The rust also was peeking out from under the wheel opening molding on both sides. It may well have been repaired in the past. Bedsides are always a concern in the rust belt.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,901
    Seriously though, where does the $225/hour go for dealerships in Southern CA? How much of that is owner profit.
    '21 BMW X3 M40i, '15 Audi S4, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,901
    edited May 21
    Had an argument with Audi over water pump vs. thermostat housing. There was an extended warranty on the water pump for my TTS (later found out it wasn't voluntary but a class action lawsuit settlement). Of course, given these facts, the dealership stated it was my housing that was leaking coolant, not the water pump, $2,000 please. Nothing covered by warranty.

    My shop says they are splitting hairs, that not only are the two parts directly next to each other/adjacent, but that you can't replace either without taking out both, and they ALWAYS just replace both. Their position, and mine, remains that they should replace the water pump under warranty and I'll pay for the housing which isn't covered (same labor).

    Dealerships quote even included replacing this elusive water pump!!!! They maintain they don't owe a dime in warranty work because it's "preventative" and not warranty. I'm an unhappy bad will Audi customer now as NEITHER should be leaking at 64,xxx miles anyway!!!!! I was within the 8 year 80K warranty (by a few days).

    So while the Audi lawyers may have celebrated negotiating that ONLY the water pump would be covered, they will have earned a lot of angry customers from that negotiation. Splitting hairs is correct.
    '21 BMW X3 M40i, '15 Audi S4, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,160
    I would follow up with the settlement lawyers to complain. I suspect Audi corporate will change that tune in a hurry.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,901
    xwesx said:

    I would follow up with the settlement lawyers to complain. I suspect Audi corporate will change that tune in a hurry.

    They didn't seem the least bit interested. Seemed like they all considered it "old news" and "case closed!"
    '21 BMW X3 M40i, '15 Audi S4, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Member Posts: 5,801
    andres3 said:

    Had an argument with Audi over water pump vs. thermostat housing. There was an extended warranty on the water pump for my TTS (later found out it wasn't voluntary but a class action lawsuit settlement). Of course, given these facts, the dealership stated it was my housing that was leaking coolant, not the water pump, $2,000 please. Nothing covered by warranty.

    I took a look at service information to see what was involved. Strange that I cannot find the labor for the thermostat housing, but I did easily find the water pump, it's listed at five hours.

    As far as the $225/hour goes, labor rates have jumped all over the country because of the technician shortage. The techs are getting more money these days, but the dealers have made sure to keep their effective percentage of cost per hour the same. So for every dollar increase the technicians have gotten, the dealers have raised their rates four dollars or more.
    andres3 said:


    My shop says they are splitting hairs, that not only are the two parts directly next to each other/adjacent, but that you can't replace either without taking out both, and they ALWAYS just replace both. Their position, and mine, remains that they should replace the water pump under warranty and I'll pay for the housing which isn't covered (same labor).

    As I said above, I did find the labor for the water pump and appropriate TSBs. It does appear that the water pump can be done separately from the housing, but the housing cannot be done without removing the water pump. This TSB covers the concern.
    TSB 19 18 96 2052657/2 November 21,2016 Supersedes TSB Group 19 18-95 From Oct 24 2018

    To get to warranty the pump the technicians must take a picture of it leaking or else the claim will be denied.
    andres3 said:


    Dealerships quote even included replacing this elusive water pump!!!! They maintain they don't owe a dime in warranty work because it's "preventative" and not warranty. I'm an unhappy bad will Audi customer now as NEITHER should be leaking at 64,xxx miles anyway!!!!! I was within the 8 year 80K warranty (by a few days).

    I'll include two screenshots from the TSB. If they cannot prove the pump is leaking, Audi won't pay to replace it.





  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,160
    Oh, I'm sorry. I thought @andres3 said that the dealer tagged the *water pump housing* as leaking and not the water pump itself. THAT would have been splitting hairs and ridiculous, in my opinion, because they are one in the same unit. The thermostat housing is a separate part, no matter how closely oriented. I can see the practicality of replacing both at the same time, but it's not a necessity.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,901
    xwesx said:

    Oh, I'm sorry. I thought @andres3 said that the dealer tagged the *water pump housing* as leaking and not the water pump itself. THAT would have been splitting hairs and ridiculous, in my opinion, because they are one in the same unit. The thermostat housing is a separate part, no matter how closely oriented. I can see the practicality of replacing both at the same time, but it's not a necessity.

    As I mentioned, I see both sides to the argument. Yes they are different parts. However, it would be INSANE to spend 5 hours removing both parts on an 8 year old car, and only replace one knowing both have been known to have issues.
    '21 BMW X3 M40i, '15 Audi S4, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Member Posts: 5,801
    andres3 said:

    As I mentioned, I see both sides to the argument. Yes they are different parts. However, it would be INSANE to spend 5 hours removing both parts on an 8 year old car, and only replace one knowing both have been known to have issues.

    Totally agree that it makes sense to do it that way, but what makes the decision is who is paying for it. If Audi is the one paying, they have their policy that the dealership must follow.

  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,775
    edited May 29
    Here's an interesting story about two opinions of the same dealership:

    My local Mercedes-Benz dealer has supplied exemplary service with respect to my CPO C43. For example, when I had a RFT blowout on a Saturday night the car was flatbedded to the dealer. The service department opened Monday at 7:30 am; at 7:27 am my service advisor had texted me to let me know that they were checking the tire issue. I texted back that I would like to go ahead and have the Service A performed. He said that was no problem. At 9:00 am he advised that the tire had a hole in the sidewall and that the rear brake pads were close to the minimums; I authorized replacing them. At 11:18 am the car was washed and ready to be picked up.

    A few weeks later I'm at a party and a guy notices I'm wearing a Mercedes-AMG F1 shirt. He asks if I own a M-B and where I get it serviced. After I told him, he relates a story about how his wife had a Mercedes and it took her weeks to get an appointment at the same dealer and how once she had a flat and the dealer told her it would be four days before they could look at it.

    I'm thinking this lady must have been a huge PITA and they were trying to discourage her patronage- I can't think of any other reason for such divergent opinions. But then that same guy thought the 2024 Mustang was FWD, so maybe there's a hidden clue somewhere.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-2021 Sahara 4xe-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,901
    edited May 29

    andres3 said:

    As I mentioned, I see both sides to the argument. Yes they are different parts. However, it would be INSANE to spend 5 hours removing both parts on an 8 year old car, and only replace one knowing both have been known to have issues.

    Totally agree that it makes sense to do it that way, but what makes the decision is who is paying for it. If Audi is the one paying, they have their policy that the dealership must follow.

    Agreed, and therefore my beef is with the people at Audi responsible for that policy. They are basically saying, we know both parts are subpar, but our lawyers are good enough that we get to screw the people with leaky thermostat housings, but we'll take care of the people with leaky water pumps.

    Win for Audi short term. The loser is all the customers with leaky thermostat housings.

    '21 BMW X3 M40i, '15 Audi S4, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
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