2013 Ford Escape



  • southtxsouthtx Member Posts: 14
    Can you put dates and/or a source with this? My Navigation actually works quite well (save for the one time it lost it's mind and I had to pull and replace the card this weekend... A4, by the way)... but based on what I've read on other sites, a lot of people are still having MyFordTouch issues with new deliveries. Maybe the dealers aren't doing what Ford told them to do... but the end result is the same.
  • tim156tim156 Member Posts: 308
    The update was released on 11/5 and my source is a Ford tech who posts on the Blue Oval Forum. I know that is not a documented source, but I trust his posts to be accurate and truthful. We may be reading the same thing, but it seems most of the troubles are still with the NAV systems. I don't have NAV, I self updated and other than two clock hiccups, which seem to have resolved itself, I'm not having any problems with radio, USB, Sirius, album art or song identification with MFT.
  • foxdaredfoxdared Member Posts: 5
    I got my escape the start of October. Since then brought it back 3x for the Nav system glitches. The last two were updated with this newest software. I started a log book. When I park my car >30mins, My nav takes 5-7mins to have GPS coverage. This is ridiculous for the amount of money I am paying to get top of the line. I cannot sit in the car for 5-7 mins each time before I go about work. Especially since the nav system was one of the reasons for getting a new car. 4th time would be a lemon in the state of Washington. I really do want to keep the car but will declare lemon if not fixed.

    Also, MPG rating is way off. Im 2400 miles into it, still getting 18-22mpg. All Hway with barely stepping and easy on acceleration, Vancouver to Seattle, shy of 23mpg. No where near 21-28mpg. Will try no ethanol and see. Should at least be easy to hit 24 but not. it seems FORD was trying to look good at the expense of long term customers, who WAS cheering for the company to make it.
  • thayer_m1thayer_m1 Member Posts: 1
    I recently purchased a 2013 ford escape with a 1.6L Eco Boost engine from Lundgren Motors in Eveleth, MN. There is a very annoying engine noise that is driving me crazy. The noise has a pinging or ticking sound. The noise is present at all engine RPM’s above idle and the frequency scales with engine RPM. The noise is coming from the dash/firewall on the passenger side. The noise is noticeable only from inside the car when the windows and doors are closed. I keep the radio on to drown out the noise. I’ve had the car in dealership and they inform me that this noise is normal and is coming from the fuel injection system. I’ve driven other 2013 1.6L Ford Escapes and none of them have this noise. Therefore, I’ve concluded that this “noise” is not normal. The dealership is not interested in working the issue and wants me to go away. I’ve tried to isolate the source of the noise with little luck. I did hear the noise signature on one of the fuel lines with a mechanical stethoscope. Does anyone have this same issue?
  • bretcampbretcamp Member Posts: 6
    Hello All

    We've had 4 Escapes and liked them all. Considering trading in one of the older ones - already rushed to get a 2012 on another trade, but realize we'll have to bite the bullet at some point on the new version- and have two comments and two questions:

    comment 1 - why the heck did they reduce the gas tank size? When you look at the range for city, combined, or highway - the extra mpg doesn't make any noticeable difference. All the ranges are within a few percent of each other. It seems like the highway mpg isn't too realistic, anyway. If you drive at 55 on NJ highways, you'll be flattened.

    comment 2 - another thread has confirmed that the hatch opening height - the height from the load floor to the inside top of the hatch door frame - is shorter than the previous version. The boxiness of the previous model was one of the best features. Has anyone with a new model found the reduced hatch opening height to be an issue?

    question 1 - back-up camera was included with nav system in earlier models. It's not clear if this is still the case, or whether you now have to buy the $995 parking tech package in addition to the $750 nav price. Admittedly, the nav option was more expensive in prior models, so maybe it works out the same.

    question 2 - if you get the nav system, you can't get the upgraded Sony sound system?

    Thanks, fellow Escapees!
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,457
    Smaller gas tanks means the car weighs a bit less and helps Ford meet CAFE mpg standards. It's not a lot of weight but it all adds up.
  • izedamanizedaman Member Posts: 16
    I have the nav system, it is the upgraded sony sound system with a 'sub' hehe
    and when I got mine to get the camera, you had to get the parking package. I like the bliss, crosstraffic... i dont care for, and auto park i dont care for. but the camera is a must
    I would love a +5 gallon tank
    the hatch height... never noticed a difference from the tribute
  • tinycadontinycadon Member Posts: 287
    The new model outweighs the old model even with the smaller tank. My mixed driving range has dropped from 285-310mi with the 2010 Escape to 235-260 with the new 2013 Escape. Not only that, I religiously hand calculate my mileage and during the 1st 3 months I was getting 23.5mpg with the 2010 and now I'm getting 18.9mpg. And they were both purchased in July so temp/gas formula has nothing to do with it. For whatever this is worth???
  • southtxsouthtx Member Posts: 14
    Well, this is certainly in keeping with what Ford 'Customer Care' told me. Which was when they fix it they'll let the dealers know, but won't be making any effort to let owners know. And apparently, the dealers aren't going to tell you unless you take it in and ask (if they even know). At the very least, I would have expected some kind of Email notification from the SYNCmyRide website, but I didn't see one.

    We also had the radio 'on by itself and wouldn't turn off' again last weekend . And like a few times before, it stayed on with the vehicle shut down and the doors opened (which should 'kill' the designated power delay however long that is).

    Changing the subject a bit, I've noticed a LOT of wind noise at the windows... much more than any other vehicle I can remember. Haven't mentioned that to the dealer yet, but I will when we take it in for them to isolate a 'wet' problem they noticed during an oil change.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,457
    How many miles on yours now?

    Winter-blend gas can make your mileage go down. Three and a half mpg seems like a bit much though.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTMember Posts: 15,874
    My wife has a '13 AWD 2.0 with about 1750 miles on it.
    It has averaged just over 22 mpg in the month and a half she has owned it.
    I checked the mileage for her '09 over the same period and it was about 20.8, although it had about 8k on it by then.
    That must have been a cold spell here in the northeast back in '09 because checking the mileage i got in the '02 Explorer, it could barely keep it's head above 13 mpg for the same period.
    I was averaging close to 16 mpg with it before November this year and my last couple of tanks have been around 14.5.
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  • tinycadontinycadon Member Posts: 287
    edited November 2012
    2,500 now, and I compared it to the 1st 2,500 with the 2010 Escape & they were both bought in July so the winter blend shouldn't have a greater effect on 1 over the other.

    The Hwy mileage was a different story, the 2010 was 27.4 and the 2013 was 30.6

    IMO the turbo KILLS the mpgs in mixed driving more than a N/A engine.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,457
    Well, I think it's possible for different cars, even the same model and engine, to have different mpg results. Otherwise there wouldn't be much reason for this discussion, lol.

    Some people get good mpg from the first tank while others take 10,000 miles or more for the mpg to settle in. I wouldn't get too worried until another 6 or 8 tanks.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTMember Posts: 15,874
    Only 2500 miles since July sounds like a lot of short trips.
    Have you checked your tire pressures?
    2020 Ford Explorer XLT, 2019 Lincoln MKZ Reserve 1
  • tinycadontinycadon Member Posts: 287
    Yes, my commute every day is very short, but I always make sure to get out on the highway at least once a week to run at highway speeds so I'm not always driving short stop & go trips. Did same with the '10 model.
  • reh999reh999 Member Posts: 3
    Sounds like the same engine fumes problem I had with my first escape. I returned it and the dealer gave me another one which is much better, but I am still getting some fumes when stoped! The fumes are coming in from the air intake for ventalion system I think? There must be more people having this problem?
  • coldnfrostycoldnfrosty Member Posts: 25
    I have 1,100 mi on my 2.0L SEL. At 2,000 RPM using cruise control for a 260 mi round-trip, I got 25 mpg. My experience has been that colder weather can reduce mpg by 2 or 3. So I would expect to see the 28 mph highway in the warmer months.
  • coldnfrostycoldnfrosty Member Posts: 25
    Is there any dashboard indicator that the turbo is running? I used to have a turbo light on my old Mazda 626 GT Turbo.
  • automelon48automelon48 Member Posts: 105
    There is no turbo indication on the vehicle. I monitor mine through the OBD-II port. The turbo is more or less a function of the throttle position. I have found that during my normal acceleration from a stop-light, (2.0 FWD) and it rev's to no more than about 2500 RPM, then I am not seeing any turbo boost. (this is only modest acceleration. (approx 10% throttle)
    On the other hand, I have had the cruise control set to about 65Mph and climbed a gentle hill, at 1700 RPM and seen the boost go to 10 pounds in 6th gear. The boost is so quiet and effortless, you do not even know it is running.
  • donl1donl1 Member Posts: 112
    Today I ordered my first Escape. AWD Titanium with no options other than a block heater. Just starting to browse this forum to see how the new Escape is being accepted.
  • johnnyumajohnnyuma Member Posts: 54
    Ordered my AWD Titanium on 9/26, received on 10/30. Options were moon roof and parking package (wanted BLIS and B/U camera - had to get park assist too), no nav system. So far very happy! We've not had any problems with the vehicle. First 1700 miles overall about 25 MPG. I'm new to the Escape as well but not to Ford (1971 Pinto, 1981 Escort, 1998 Merc Mountaineer and 2008 Fusion).
  • cmunizcmuniz Member Posts: 604
    edited November 2012
    I noticed that Ford recommends using premium on the 2.0T. Is there any downside to using regular in terms of performance or gas mileage?
  • tim156tim156 Member Posts: 308
    edited November 2012
    They recommend premium fuel for towing or conditions where more horsepower is needed, such as mountainous driving. I've been using a quality 87 octane fuel since day one with no power or economy issues.
  • mikeo56mikeo56 Member Posts: 16
    edited November 2012
    I too have been a lurker here for about 7 weeks, 6 weeks ago I ordered my SEL 1.6 FWD with the 302A package Platinum White Tri Coat, those Ruby Red ones look really nice but at the lot I noticed any scratches stand out so we went with White, with Tan Leather, should get it anytime.
    I will report mileage ect. when we get it.
    Do you guys drive around town until broken in or get it out on the HWY?
  • tim156tim156 Member Posts: 308
    You'll probably get many opinions, so I'll give you mine. Drive it like you would everyday. During the initial break in period, take it out on one or two 200 mile Sunday freeway road trips and enjoy the drive. Vary the speed between 55 and 75-85 and once or twice take it up to 100 or so. Drive some two lane roads that have varying speed limits and a few towns you have to slow down and stop. Stop and buy something from a small town business and have a home cooked meal at a small cafe. Of course, all of this is just a suggestion, but it worked for me.
  • johnnyumajohnnyuma Member Posts: 54
    Here's a summary of what I've read when I researched this question: 87 and 91 octane fuel has the same energy content. No effect on MPG. There's a minor decrease in hp when using regular I recall about 5-9 hp. However there'll be a minor decrease in MPG when using fuel with 10% ethanol (about 2-3%). Ethanol has about 20-25% less energy than regular gas. BTW EPA MPG figures are based on 100% gas (no ethanol).
  • automelon48automelon48 Member Posts: 105
    Here is what fueleconomy.gov says

    "Most of the gasoline now sold has a small amount of ethanol in it—up to 10% by volume depending upon the region. Using gasoline with 10% ethanol decreases fuel economy by 3–4%.

    The energy content of gasoline varies seasonally. Typical summer conventional gasoline contains about 1.7% more energy than typical winter conventional gasoline."

    You are correct, 87 and 91 Octane have the same energy content. 87 Detonates easier, in the face of heat and pressure, 91 resists burning until faced with higher temperature and pressure, this is why a turbocharged engine will thrive on higher octane.
    Ford, and many others have been able to manage the 87 fuel in a high pressure turbo engine with the help of knock sensors, variable valve timing, ignition timing etc.

    In the 2.0T it makes a difference of 9Hp. Fuel mileage difference should be minimal. I have not checked yet, as I have only run 91 for my first 4 tanks.

    In the old days, running 87 octane in this type of engine would have been harmful. Nowadays the technology is so good, the controls in the engine can adapt to whatever you are putting in.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,457
    "Ford is extending the warranty and offering another upgrade that enhances the voice-recognition and navigation technology on its much-criticized MyFord Touch infotainment system, Mark Fields, soon to be the automaker's chief operating officer, told reporters Wednesday at the Los Angeles Auto Show.

    The warranty on the MyFord Touch system will now last for five years, up from three years. MyLincoln Touch will carry a six-year warranty, said Ford spokesman Alan Hall."

    Ford to extend warranty, update software for MyFord Touch (Detroit Free Press)
  • mikeo56mikeo56 Member Posts: 16
    Signed our contract tonight for our Escape even though we did not take delivery of it. The salesman called us and asked if we would do so that way he could get closer to his bonus for the month ( I think)
    Anyway no problem, we still drove away with an SEL 2.0
    We ordered an FWD 1.6 SEL White Platinum Paint and the 302A package should be in any day been 6 plus weeks.
    So we got a $1500 Cash Back and a $500 Ford Credit $2,000 total
    We paid $29,918 minus the $2,000 so $27,918 no taxes since we live in the state of OREGON, oh yea, plus $150 for license and processing fee.
    I also opted for an extended service plan for 5 Yrs or 60k miles
    from National Warranty for $1,000
    Dont know if I should have or not but we will find out in the Years 3-5
    Mixed reviews on those warranty's.
    We usually keep ours cars for longer than that.
    So all in all we got a new car in the garage tonight. :)
  • johnnyumajohnnyuma Member Posts: 54
    I'm curious, why do you even see a need to use 91 octane? Towing? Mountain roads? or is it just personal preference? I've exclusively used 87 octane in my Titanium. I see no advantage to using 91 octane for the minor hp difference (BTW if someone has a 1.6L the hp difference is 5). I find it interesting that Ford recommends regular but the hp rating is based on premium:

  • tinkerdogtinkerdog Member Posts: 2
    Bought my Ruby Red Escape 2013 in September. It has been in and out of the shop since then for 11 days trying to fix an intermittent problem with the powered liftgae (not the foot activated version).

    At first it would not open... it would try, but not release the latch properly and then hang up. I would have to get out and manually open the liftgate. After a couple of trips to the shop, Ford went and replaced some parts in the liftgate, and we thought it was fixed. Nope.

    Now, it won't latch properly when it closes. Goes down, tries to latch up... jiggles abit, then the latch gives up and remains unlatched.

    This junk has been going on for over 2 MONTHS !!! It has been in the shop about 11 days in this time period.

    I worked with the Regional Manager (who was very nice and tried his best to get it fixed). The Ford mechanics appeared to have tried their best to.

    So what to do? Otherwise, the car is fabulous and works great (Sync and MFT work great too).
  • tim156tim156 Member Posts: 308
    Another unfortunate misstep for the 1.6L

  • tinycadontinycadon Member Posts: 287
    Buyers remorse, BIG TIME!!!
  • mikeo56mikeo56 Member Posts: 16
    I am glad I live in a small town with the ford dealer only 5 minutes away so I can return the car to get fixed, yea, the one I have not got yet. :sick:
  • automelon48automelon48 Member Posts: 105
    Most of the reason is personal preference. Gas is "cheap" right now and I am trying to establish a baseline for performance, economy etc. I am using Shell 91 because I know that is one of the fuels that is 100% gasoline in this region. I will switch to a good quality 87 at some point to see if there is a measureable difference. When I tow my 1800lb trailer in the summer, it will be 91 for sure. Also, in my mind these engines are designed to run on 91. They just have the ability to run quite nicely on 87 if that's what you choose. Check out the requirements for the Range Rover Evoque, it has the same engine, but is marketed to people who are willing/able to spend more.
    "Maximum power bhp @ rpm 240 @ 5,500 Maximum torque lb/ft @ rpm 251 @ 1,750" Fuel - Premium.
    Thank you Ford for putting in enough engine management to allow us to run regular fuel, but when I can or need to, I will run Premium.
    (by the way, I have seen 18 lbs of boost with this engine, I am sure it appreciates (utilizes) the octane at that pressure)
  • johnnyumajohnnyuma Member Posts: 54
    Unfortunately I live in a state (MI) that doesn't require gas stations to label the pumps: http://www.fuel-testers.com/state_guide_ethanol_laws.html I assume I'm using E10.

    What's your opinion about the recent EPA action re: use of E15 fuel? According to this article 2013 Fords are OK with E15: http://www.freep.com/article/20121130/BUSINESS01/121130007/gasoline-ethanol-car-- truck-damage-AAA?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|FRONTPAGE|s
  • cbc410cbc410 Member Posts: 20
    Can you explain what the OBD-II port is and where to find it? I am getting horrible city mileage (13.5 - 16) but decent highway mileage (28 - 32). I live in a hilly area.
  • automelon48automelon48 Member Posts: 105
    The OBD-II port is a D shaped connector that you can plug a diagnostics tool into, to check engine codes, diagnostics etc. In the Escape there is door near the drivers left knee. Simply pull open the door and plug in a diagnostic tool. I Use an OBD-II Wi-fi transmitter which sends all of the data to my iPad. I downloaded an iPad app, and now I have more information than I could have imagined.
    Remember "city" mileage will vary GREATLY depending on traffic etc. etc. etc.
    Also, when you use the turbo a lot, you will be making a lot of torque/horsepower. There is no magic here, torque and Hp require fuel.
  • automelon48automelon48 Member Posts: 105
    This is probably a topic for a different forum, but in general I am not a big fan of Ethanol. I will leave it at that.
    If people are looking at fuel consumption, they will see a difference with more Ethanol being added. To see for yourself, go to www.fueleconomy.gov and look at an E85 vehicle. (2012 Chev Impala FFV for example) It's rated 30Mpg highway on gasoline, and 22Mpg highway on E85.
    It does look like the 2013 Escapes are rated to run E15. It also concerned me in the article when it says that one customer is using E15 in his 10 year old pickup truck and it "runs fine". The problem is, if the vehicle components were not designed to accept that much alcohol, then he is damaging his vehicle, and he just doesn't know it yet.
    There are special materials that must be used in an engine and fuel system, so that they will not sustian damage from alcohol.
    Again, I think this topic is best suited in another forum, as it is very general in nature. It affects all vehicles, not just Escapes.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,457
    edited December 2012
    There's an active ethanol discussion here that folks may be interested in:

    The Inconvenient Truth About Ethanol
  • cbc410cbc410 Member Posts: 20
    Thank you for that information. Is there a particular one that you favor and a particular app you use. It looks like there are a lot of choices. I am most interested in understanding the impact of the terrain and my driving habits on mpg as my city driving mpg is disappointedly low.
  • automelon48automelon48 Member Posts: 105
    The app I chose is DashCommand. Got it through the App store. The OBD-II, is one I bought locally. It looks exactly the same as this one on Amazon.
    link title
    So far, I am having a lot of fun with it. Originally I bought it just so I could read boost pressure. Now I am looking at about 50 variables. It's definitely a toy for enthusiasts, gear-heads and the like. It also has a ton of stuff on mileage and emissions, cost to drive .............
    If you are an Apple use, you must get a Wi-fi transmitter. If you use an Android, then there are other apps, and the ability to use Bluetooth.
  • cbc410cbc410 Member Posts: 20
    Thanks so much. I will try it.
  • foxdaredfoxdared Member Posts: 5
    Nav which is extremely bad especially since ford dealer just came with excuses saying building where the problem. I live not in a building area, work 35miles away in the suburbs, and get the same bugs regardless of city or highway driving. 5-10mins before nav engages. Have a log book and uploading a video to youtube to demonstrate the navs buggy interaction. 3x at ford service center and 5 days of loss use, Im starting process for a lemon. I really want to love ford but they are making it hard for me to. This is a safety issue as you cannot stop in the middle of the highway to put an address when your nav feels like working.

    In terms of real world mpg, I do not get how the 24-25 mpgs are coming from. Drive with 87 octane costco, no load, tire pressures checked, highway/city, driver restraint, even had my fuel sensitive wife drive a long highway stretch, and still getting 19-22mpg. Had ford service check it out as well and said no problems.

    This car drives amazing though. I wanted to love ford especially the cool things they have been doing. Even traded my honda crv. Such a shame I cannot move on since I am paying a lot of money and basically told its not their problem:(
  • mikeo56mikeo56 Member Posts: 16
    http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2012/12/03/ford-fusion-escape-recall-en- gine-fires/1743203/

    Recall a big blow to Escape, Fusion

    Chris Woodyard and Meghan Hoyer, USA TODAY Share

    Ford hasn't yet pinpointed the problem that led to 13 engine fires.
    ford logo headquarters 2009

    Customers are being told to park their vehicles; will be given loaners

    8:21AM EST December 4. 2012 - As embarrassments go, Ford Motor couldn't face a worse recall than one that wraps together two critical 2013 vehicles and a technology that it has spent the most time and money trying to burnish: Fusion sedan, Escape crossover and the EcoBoost turbocharged engine.

    Yet on Monday Ford was at a loss to explain why the 1.6-liter EcoBoost engine in two big-selling models was overheating and might catch fire — or how it plans to fix the 89,153 vehicles involved. Ford is urging owners to park their vehicles, contact their dealers and arrange for loaners.

    So far, 12 fires were reported in the Escapes and one in the Fusion, which just went on sale, says Ford spokesman Said Deep. No injuries were reported.

    What's more, the latest recall marks the fourth for the Escape since last spring. One involved a swatch of carpet that could block the gas pedal. The others all involved the same 1.6-liter, four-cylinder engine, including a recent recall because of coolant leaking from a freeze plug.

    That track record now has some asking whether the automaker, which has tried hard to burnish the reputation of the Ford nameplate under CEO Alan Mulally, has gone astray.

    "It does beg the question: 'Does Ford have a serious quality problem?' " says George Cook, executive professor of marketing at the Simon Graduate School of Business at the University of Rochester and a former Ford marketing executive.

    Consumer Reports recently dropped Ford to second-to-last place in its annual reliability survey. Only two years ago, Ford was in the top 10. Ford has created so many all-new products that the kinks haven't been worked out of many of them, lsays Jake Fisher, head of the non-profit magazine's automotive test division.

    The Ford brand has had 92 recalls since 2009, substantially higher than the next highest brands — Chevrolet, at 70, and Toyota, at 68, a search of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration database reveals. Of course, such a search doesn't take into account the severity of individual recalls or that the Ford nameplate is part of the larger Ford Motor. When recalls in its various divisions are added up, General Motors outpaces Ford on recalls overall.

    It hurts even more that the problems involve 73,320 Escapes and 15,833 Fusions. In launching the new Escape this year, Ford said the two models compete in segments that make up 30% of all sales.

    With fuel economy a top consideration, Ford has heavily touted its EcoBoost engines — and is bringing them to 90% of its models. Though the recall is "just isolated to that engine," the 1.6-liter, Ford fears the recall "might tarnish the entire line of engines," says Mike Omotoso, senior manager of global powertrain for LMC Automotive.

    Some buyers sound deeply unhappy.

    One buyer complained to NHTSA that he had already gone through three recall repairs on his 2013 Escape and was driving on the freeway near Charlottesville, Va., when a pop came from the engine. The engine temperature light came on, steam, then oily smoke poured from the engine and it burst into flames.

    Another owner, Andrew Portare, says his engine hasn't overheated but his Escape has already been back to the dealer for several other problems. Now the Chantilly, Va., executive is miffed that Ford is telling him to park his Escape and use a free rental car.

    "I just paid $26,000 for this car. Now they tell me to park it," he says.

    Portare says he's fed up. "I feel like I should be able to get a refund," he says.
  • smellsfishysmellsfishy Member Posts: 7
    Update: I took the escape into the dealer, and they said they found the cause of the smell. The valve cover gasket was leaking oil all over the top and side of the engine. There is also another gasket that is visibley out of position.
    The after almost 2 weeks in the shop, they can't tell me when the replacment parts will be available. Is this common for new cars?
    The recuirculate turning off after 5 mins is normal, ie it's also happening on the replacment escape.
  • pzampzam Member Posts: 19
    Does anyone else find that the seat warmers are really hot? When I set it to 1, I have to turn it off after 5 minutes because it gets so warm. I can't imagine using settings 2-5. I might catch fire! I have 3 other vehicles with seat warmers, and they are all comfortable especially at the lowest settings. Is my control defective, or is this just how the Fords are designed?
  • coldnfrostycoldnfrosty Member Posts: 25
    Yup. I never set it above 2.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTMember Posts: 15,874
    I would open the hood and make sure the battery wires are firmly connected.
    2020 Ford Explorer XLT, 2019 Lincoln MKZ Reserve 1
  • cbc410cbc410 Member Posts: 20
    My seat is comfortable at 5 for me.
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