I don't believe in rewarding bad individual behavior--on forums or any place else. I believe if folks had to sign their actual names, we wouldn't see half the type of posts seen here. I'd be OK with signing my name.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
My favorite non-recall was Fords falling out of park. Somehow they got away with putting a sticker on the dash as the fix. I remember seeing footage with one going in circles, the door hitting a guy each lap.
Heck, I recall my Dad getting that sticker in the mail from Ford for his 1972 LTD.
And BTW, jpp, the Corvette and the Impala are GM's two latest new models, ground-up. Ever hear the marketing term "halo product"? Others haven't been due for replacement yet. I believe you are aware of that.
Oh, and people here have asked that recalls not be posted here....but that has gone away lately. I was posting large recalls, which for awhile was largely on Asian brands. I was asked to stop and I did. No one has asked that here lately. That's not fallacy, that is plain fact. Saying anything else is intellectually dishonest. Look back, and you will see that.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
@uplanderguy said:
And BTW, jpp, the Corvette and the Impala are GM's two latest new models, ground-up. Others haven't been due for replacement yet. I believe you are aware of that.
Oh, and people here have asked that recalls not be posted here....but that has gone away lately. Look back, and you will see that.
I don't care about the recalls. Every manufacturer has them, get over it. Some are worse than others, some don't matter. Recalls aren't a measure of overall quality, they're PR at best these days.
From a business standpoint it doesn't make any sense to build a great model just because it's up for replacement and others aren't. Why skimp on your Malibu and build a great Impala when that's not what people are buying? It's like buying a great boat when you need a kidney transplant. You look great sailing and people talk about your great boat, but you're dying from kidney failure....but damn you look good doing it.
@uplanderguy said:
But even the Malibu has exceeded its competition in test scores in CR. It had a lousy launch and people can't seem to get past that.
If the buying public believed CR then the Malibu wouldn't be fighting the Sonata for 6th place in the most competitive market.
CR really isn't the standard though, I think you've belabored that point before.
GM is a "has been" from the glory days our parents knew....at best they're a mid level competitor in today's market.
@uplanderguy said: > Oh, and people here have asked that recalls not be posted here....but that has gone away lately. I was posting large recalls, which for awhile was largely on Asian brands. I was asked to stop and I did. No one has asked that here lately. That's not fallacy, that is plain fact. Saying anything else is intellectually dishonest. Look back, and you will see that.
Remember all the burning cars. That's why I didn't post the Hyundai that fell apart when it hit a tree.
You could find clips of every manufacturer with cars on fire. Posting those doesn't make any other manufacturer look better or worse. So what if someone points out GM's shortcomings. No one else feels the need to do so for any other manufacturer, take it for what it's worth and let it go. Enjoy your love for the product/company, whatever. The more you cry foul the more it looks desperate.
You could find clips of every manufacturer with cars on fire.
Yup. Our point exactly.
Posting those doesn't make any other manufacturer look better or worse. So what if someone points out GM's shortcomings.
Huh?
No one else feels the need to do so for any other manufacturer, take it for what it's worth and let it go. Enjoy your love for the product/company, whatever.
Huh?
The more you cry foul the more it looks desperate.
You're sending that message to the wrong person on here. You need to suggest that to the poster with the repetition stuck on GM to assuage the poster's own needs.
Being an auditor, you know that accuracy and exact wording is important. That's all I'm trying to do. People who never post a word on these forums look at them...don't we owe it to them to be at least accurate? I don't mind opinions, of course...everybody has 'em. I try to label my opinions as such but try to post facts...as facts. Presenting only one viewpoint doesn't do anybody any favors...except those who espouse said viewpoint. You can have the last word; I'm done debating this particular issue here. You've worn me down.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
The automaker was supposed to get rid of its unresponsive culture in exchange for taxpayer salvation. Instead, it dithered as faulty ignition switches killed customers.
In two days of testimony, Barra tried very hard to delineate between an Old GM and a New GM, insisting that the company has been run differently since the bailout and 2009 bankruptcy.
But, given that Barra has admitted she only first heard about problems with the Chevrolet Cobalt in late December, and that senior management was only told about the need for a recall on Jan. 31, when the first wave was announced, it is easy to believe that the Old GM is still in firmly in place.
@imidazol97 said:
Notice I don't mention Kiunda. I think they got a pass from some on their mileage scam. But I saw a vehicle that showed the sheer lack of strength other than where needed to pass the crash tests.
I see you mention sludge a lot, but I haven't seen it mentioned much elsewhere. Frankly it seems to me that this is grasping for straws - I would agree that Toy and Hon are not as good as they once were, and that the US nameplates are much better than before. But what you or I think doesn't really matter. The market is still not saying GM is some new great shakes from where it once was, from a market share perspective. And we can argue about who is better all day, but ultimately the market is deciding.
@uplanderguy said:
This will rankle some, but it was a recent automotive news story which I have not seen posted here. I'll assume it was over on the 'Buying American...' forum but I have not looked.
That is IMHO a pseudo-study that is designed to say "buy GM or Ford, and if you must, Chrysler" with numbers and tables. They basically give priority if company is US owned and based. Well, there are exactly two of those. Funny how they somehow consider Chrysler more US than Honda, which is funny as they are owned by Fiat. A legacy "slip", I guess. Old viewpoints die hard.
Looks like GM stock has taken a bit of a hit, but not as bad as I would have thought. I just checked to see if it would be worth it to sell mine at a strategic loss, but I've lost so little it's not worth it. And, if anything, it makes the dividend look a bit more attractive... 3.45%. Heck, maybe I should buy a little more! It closed today at $34.11 per share, and I bought in at $34.46, so no big whoop. However, I had seen it go up to about $37 per share, so that made it "hurt" a bit worse.
Still, my online broker, Scottrade, gives GM a 5 start (out of 5) rating. They'll pull through this. Hopefully.
@uplanderguy said:
But even the Malibu has exceeded its competition in test scores in CR. It had a lousy launch and people can't seem to get past that.
It also has the GM brands (Chevy in this case) name on it, which automatically rules it out for many people. Take ValueJet - they had a bad crash and rebranded as AirTran, and became very successful. GM should have rebranded (something that I said back during BK). The afficianados of GM would have still bought them, and those who wouldn't consider GM might have felt that this was a company they should try. With the way it has gone, to most non-GM buyers it is still that same old do-not-consider GM.
@uplanderguy said:
Being an auditor, you know that accuracy and exact wording is important. That's all I'm trying to do. People who never post a word on these forums look at them...don't we owe it to them to be at least accurate? I don't mind opinions, of course...everybody has 'em. I try to label my opinions as such but try to post facts...as facts. Presenting only one viewpoint doesn't do anybody any favors...except those who espouse said viewpoint. You can have the last word; I'm done debating this particular issue here. You've worn me down.
"Being an auditor, you know that accuracy and exact wording isare important."
@tlong said:
I see you mention sludge a lot, but I haven't seen it mentioned much elsewhere.
Was the handling of the sludging done well, in your opinion. You're making my point. People don't talk about the sludging because the PC folks feel that negatives about toyota were unacceptable.
Frankly it seems to me that this is grasping for straws
Were that the sludging with all the antics by toyota were GM's baby, how would it be handled today? Hush, hush, seldom mentioned because the brand is so lovable? OR....?
I would agree that Toy and Hon are not as good as they once were, and that the US nameplates are much better than before.
I hesitated using my perfect car brand label because I know we're past that point.
But what you or I think doesn't really matter. The market is still not saying GM is some new great shakes from where it once was, from a market share perspective. And we can argue about who is better all day, but ultimately the market is deciding.
But the market is based on past history and on people's word-of-mouth as to the relative reliability of cars based on 8-10 year old information from the word of mouth people. Because far too few people research a car based on current value. Instead they use Matilda who bought this great 2001 Camry and kept it for 10 years until 2011 and has been telling everyone how great the reliability was 13 years ago on Camrys.
That helps make my point. Maybe we're not as far apart as might seem. Remember I looked at the Accord again for this purchase. My wife wouldn't even test drive it, however I gave it a whirl.
@uplanderguy said:
Being an auditor, you know that accuracy and exact wording is important. That's all I'm trying to do. People who never post a word on these forums look at them...don't we owe it to them to be at least accurate? I don't mind opinions, of course...everybody has 'em. I try to label my opinions as such but try to post facts...as facts. Presenting only one viewpoint doesn't do anybody any favors...except those who espouse said viewpoint. You can have the last word; I'm done debating this particular issue here. You've worn me down.
I've got to say that I have never depended on nor relied upon ANY information on ANY forum that doesn't have the requirement of the bona fide actual names of posters to be shown, as well as how they can be contacted to gain additional information.
Forums that allow usernames to be coined and used for posting may be informative, and sometimes even helpful, but unless the comments contain sourced information, properly documented, I take the comments with a grain of salt.
Makes for interesting conversation, but that's about it...
Grasping at straws means the sludge problems were common to lots of cars, affected only a small percentage of vehicles, and it was also 12 years ago. Oh, and Toyota paid for the repairs. Move on. Not a factor in today's Toyotas and not a big factor then. The vast majority of Toyotas have not suffered this issue so it doesn't affect buying perceptions. It has nothing to do with wanting to defend Toyotas. They don't need defending. Hopefully Chevy can fix this problem and move on too.
At the end of the day, the only thing that matters is what the market is buying. We can all talk about quality, price, availability, an so on, but it all boils down in the end to what sells.
The days of people buying products primarily based upon others' previous experience are long gone, if in fact they ever really existed. And, considering automotive historical data, the fact that a particular make/model was an outstanding vehicle when Aunt Jane had one 12 years ago really doesn't mean squat in an environment changing so rapidly that a 12 year old example wouldn't ever resemble the current model being sold today.
Extremely few new vehicle owners keep their car for longer than 6-7 years...
Leasing owners keep them even shorter lengths of time.
That's a big reason you don't see a lot of sales marketing talking up any brand's long-term history. When they do, it's usually from a generic standpoint, not specific model by model.
I dunno - we still have fond memories of our '82 Tercel (and I still have vivid memories of bad Volvos from the 70s and friend's Volvos in the 80s and 90s.) We're shopping Toyota after a 14 year hiatus but I don't think I'll ever consider a Volvo.
And lots of people use their real names but you can't rely on what they say. And I'm not just referring to politicans.
I collect most of my reliability biases from people I deal with a lot: repair shops and wrecking yards. I feel that have some hard data (that you have to "filter" however) that might be useful.
For instance, there is a pickup truck X that one wrecking yard will only purchase very cheaply for scrap or sheet metal pieces, because they feel all the major components will be useless. And Pickup truck B has a very high rate of failure, and disproportionate to the number of B trucks out there.
Of course, they are talking about trucks which are 3 to 10 years old.
I thought the average age of cars on the road is 12 years old, and the data show people keep cars longer (probably because cars tend to last longer nowadays).
I got one at 15, one at 7, and the other one at 1 (2?). And the newest one was booked for a minimum of 10 years before I would approve the purchase!
I use a 2x rule of thumb. Whatever the loan term required to get an acceptable monthly payment, you have to keep it the same length of time after the loan is paid off (though in my life, I have never gone the full term on a loan. They were always paid off early).
@suydam said:
I thought the average age of cars on the road is 12 years old, and the data show people keep cars longer (probably because cars tend to last longer nowadays).
Don't confuse original owner vehicle period of ownership with length of service time.
Last I checked, the average original car ownership was 5-7 years, depending on model, and the average age of cars on the road was around 12 years...
I spent about $1,000 last week on the '99 Quest to get it back home from our road trip. The '97 Outback is even older, though with 100k fewer miles (only 10 years owned by us). Sometimes it's not good to be above average.
might only be a few car payments, but if you aren't getting the money back out you put in, still a waste since you will be buying a new car shortly anyway.
I look at it as, I could have bought the car now instead, and driven new for the 2-3 months, instead of nursing the van along! Plus, never know when the next crapout happens.
your situation is also the downside to nursing a bomber along. You never know when it is going to break, and you take a big risk getting very far from home. Also playing roulette with the minimal value it has if you sold it running vs. scrap cost when it get towed away.
I never want to go down the "just one more repair, I already have so much in it" path again if I can help it!
@imidazol97, distributor (again). Main irritant was that no codes were thrown that an indy mechanic could find (no Nissan dealer in Port Huron). The service writer told me that the fancy Nissan scan tool found a "pre-code" indicating a distributor issue.
@stickguy, we did put it on craigs ~3 years ago before our last move, but didn't push too hard. We were asking $2,600. And it was nice for our NY, NM and Newfoundland trips the last couple of years. Better gas mileage of a Prius would have been nice too though. Part of it is being in the boonies with no close dealers near by. The only thing worse than car shopping to me is driving two hours one way to a dealer to car shop.
Since I drive them forever, I never really worry about the resale on my cars. We put about $3,200 into the van in 2008. We're into it for $2,700 the last two years for repairs and tires. In 2011, I spent $366 on it, $740 in 2010, $89 in '09. Total lifetime is $10,148 or .10 a mile. Or $725 a year. Or $60 a month. So it's not going to bother me too much when my wife makes me walk away from it this summer. :-)
Last year my brother got rear-ended traveling in Vermont in his new Odyssey and spent a couple of weeks holed up in a motel and driving a rental Fiat 500 around, so getting stranded isn't limited to those of us driving beaters.
@imidazol97 said:
But the market is based on past history and on people's word-of-mouth as to the relative > reliability of cars based on 8-10 year old information from the word of mouth people.
So that means that reputations last a long time. It also means that the length of track record matters. I guess saving $0.50/switch isn't such a wise accounting practice after all...
Because far too few people research a car based on current value.
Huh? Not sure what "current value" means. There is current apparent value. But real value is determined long term. Things that look really good might not be. As has been recently posted here about Hyundai - the latest Sonata design was heralded, and now we see some warts. Similarly, Ford's recent vehicles like Escape look really good, but then lots of "My Ford Touch" problems. So actual demonstrated value over time wasn't as good as had appeared, and Ford stumbled their toes.
@suydam said:
I thought the average age of cars on the road is 12 years old, and the data show people keep cars longer (probably because cars tend to last longer nowadays).
I keep my cars a long time. The shortest I ever kept a car is 88K miles. The longest was 225K. I'm currently at 140K on a nearly 10 year old car. I figure others can eat their depreciation - I'm saving for vacations!
busiris, I'd be perfectly OK with putting my name on my forum posts. In fact, I suggested that during the changes here. I was told "that will never happen". We have to do that on an old-car forum I frequent. I think it cuts way down on the trolling and childish remarks. On a side note, I don't believe in running to the moderators whenever someone doesn't agree with something posted. I have a hunch (and that's all it is), that that's done a fair amount on Edmunds' forums.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
General Motors is having a bad year. But the automaker got some good news on Tuesday when two GM SUVs earned top ratings in a new crash test.
The Chevrolet Equinox and the GMC Terrain are the only two vehicles to earn the top rating from the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, which conducted a challenging crash test on nine popular midsize SUVs.
@uplanderguy said:
busiris, I'd be perfectly OK with putting my name on my forum posts. In fact, I suggested that during the changes here. I was told "that will never happen". We have to do that on an old-car forum I frequent. I think it cuts way down on the trolling and childish remarks. On a side note, I don't believe in running to the moderators whenever someone doesn't agree with something posted. I have a hunch (and that's all it is), that that's done a fair amount on Edmunds' forums.
I can't say about any posters running to the moderators... That's a question best left to Steve and Shifty.
Like you, I'd have no problem using my real name. I'm not out to intentionally misdirect anyone, and I'd bet that holds true for most of the "regulars" here. I think, like you, it makes for a more honest, clean exchange.
I guess my point was this... If I happened to be on an astrophysics forum that required real names (BTW, not a usual hangout of mine) and I saw a post authored by Neil DeGrasse Tyson, I'd probably pay more attention to it than the same post authored by Stardude_BR549 on another forum without such a requirement. I think most probably feel that way, too.
lol, how do you know it's the "real" Tyson though? Can you trust the vetting? Can you do the math? Remember the proposal to tie real names/addresses with emails via the US Postal Service? That might have made them a bundle. The real problem I see is "extra-legal" harassment from someone who doesn't like what you post, even if it's not inflammatory. If you need to subpoena to get the member info, that's a bit better because theoretically a non-biased party is overseeing the request.(And complaints to mods are pretty rare - everyone seems to get along nicely around Edmunds).
Guess I should post this in the GM Fans discussion:
Busiris, that is the funniest post of yours I believe I've ever read. I picked up on the BR-549 thing BTW. Also BTW, Neil can't do the "Billions and Billions" like Carl could, does he? LOL
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
@uplanderguy said:
Busiris, that is the funniest post of yours I believe I've ever read. I picked up on the BR-549 thing BTW. Also BTW, Neil can't do the "Billions and Billions" like Carl could, does he? LOL
BR-549. Ah, yes. Junior Sample's reliable used car sales. I once used that as the security code for our home security service. I missed the code once and had to answer the call from Dallas. The lady got a real kick out of my codeword.
You should ditch that Subaru before the head gaskets blow, or at least put away $1500 bucks for it.
I agree with you though that resale value is a moot point if you're going to keep a vehicle a long, long time. I prefer to think of a car as something I "use up"--not unlike a racing team's outlook about its car---it only has to last as long as the finish line. If I got 200K and 10 years out of a car, it owes me nothing.
@Stever@Edmunds said:
imidazol97, distributor (again). Main irritant was that no codes were thrown that an indy mechanic could find (no Nissan dealer in Port Huron). The service writer told me that the fancy Nissan scan tool found a "pre-code" indicating a distributor issue.
stickguy, we did put it on craigs ~3 years ago before our last move, but didn't push too hard. We were asking $2,600. And it was nice for our NY, NM and Newfoundland trips the last couple of years. Better gas mileage of a Prius would have been nice too though. Part of it is being in the boonies with no close dealers near by. The only thing worse than car shopping to me is driving two hours one way to a dealer to car shop.
Since I drive them forever, I never really worry about the resale on my cars. We put about $3,200 into the van in 2008. We're into it for $2,700 the last two years for repairs and tires. In 2011, I spent $366 on it, $740 in 2010, $89 in '09. Total lifetime is $10,148 or .10 a mile. Or $725 a year. Or $60 a month. So it's not going to bother me too much when my wife makes me walk away from it this summer. :-)
Last year my brother got rear-ended traveling in Vermont in his new Odyssey and spent a couple of weeks holed up in a motel and driving a rental Fiat 500 around, so getting stranded isn't limited to those of us driving beaters.
Completely valid point. GM's problem is that most shoppers don't consider the Malibu, so no matter how good it is these days there won't be many people singing their praises 10 - 12 years down the road.
@MrShift@Edmunds said:
You should ditch that Subaru before the head gaskets blow, or at least put away $1500 bucks for it.
Can't disagree and I'm not really looking forward to the trip to NM in it next month. The van is just more comfy. My local guy already gave me an estimate for the head gaskets - $1,500, just as you say.
We have every intention of testing a Prius in a couple of weeks. The few in inventory may be gone before we get over that way though.
@jpp5862 said:
Completely valid point. GM's problem is that most shoppers don't consider the Malibu, so no matter how good it is these days there won't be many people singing their praises 10 - 12 years down the road.
Similarly, I wonder how many people back in the mid-sixties would have thought that the biggest single-marque car club in the country would be...the Studebaker Drivers' Club.
I'll admit that smaller Studebaker clubs had folded into the S.D.C. over the years, but at a reasonable $31.50 for twelve 66-page magazines, can't beat it.
Whoops, that's not a car built this century. LOL
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
Comments
Oh no offense taken, but why do you let it get to you so much? Let that person post all they want.
You take this forum too seriously, you'll never change anyone's mind on a forum. Go enjoy your cars, family, etc.
You love GM and their cars, go enjoy them and quit wasting energy on internet trolls.
I don't believe in rewarding bad individual behavior--on forums or any place else. I believe if folks had to sign their actual names, we wouldn't see half the type of posts seen here. I'd be OK with signing my name.
Hec> @uplanderguy said:
Heck, I recall my Dad getting that sticker in the mail from Ford for his 1972 LTD.
And BTW, jpp, the Corvette and the Impala are GM's two latest new models, ground-up. Ever hear the marketing term "halo product"? Others haven't been due for replacement yet. I believe you are aware of that.
Oh, and people here have asked that recalls not be posted here....but that has gone away lately. I was posting large recalls, which for awhile was largely on Asian brands. I was asked to stop and I did. No one has asked that here lately. That's not fallacy, that is plain fact. Saying anything else is intellectually dishonest. Look back, and you will see that.
I don't care about the recalls. Every manufacturer has them, get over it. Some are worse than others, some don't matter. Recalls aren't a measure of overall quality, they're PR at best these days.
From a business standpoint it doesn't make any sense to build a great model just because it's up for replacement and others aren't. Why skimp on your Malibu and build a great Impala when that's not what people are buying? It's like buying a great boat when you need a kidney transplant. You look great sailing and people talk about your great boat, but you're dying from kidney failure....but damn you look good doing it.
But even the Malibu has exceeded its competition in test scores in CR. It had a lousy launch and people can't seem to get past that.
If the buying public believed CR then the Malibu wouldn't be fighting the Sonata for 6th place in the most competitive market.
CR really isn't the standard though, I think you've belabored that point before.
GM is a "has been" from the glory days our parents knew....at best they're a mid level competitor in today's market.
Remember all the burning cars. That's why I didn't post the Hyundai that fell apart when it hit a tree.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
You could find clips of every manufacturer with cars on fire. Posting those doesn't make any other manufacturer look better or worse. So what if someone points out GM's shortcomings. No one else feels the need to do so for any other manufacturer, take it for what it's worth and let it go. Enjoy your love for the product/company, whatever. The more you cry foul the more it looks desperate.
It's all about being balanced in life.
Only everybody else's opinions matter here, apparently.
I'll take it that you were never on the debate team in school.
Kidding.
Actually I was on the debate team and I'm also an auditor.
I just don't understand why you feel the need to cry foul so much on the boards.
Yup. Our point exactly.
Huh?
Huh?
You're sending that message to the wrong person on here. You need to suggest that to the poster with the repetition stuck on GM to assuage the poster's own needs.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Being an auditor, you know that accuracy and exact wording is important. That's all I'm trying to do. People who never post a word on these forums look at them...don't we owe it to them to be at least accurate? I don't mind opinions, of course...everybody has 'em. I try to label my opinions as such but try to post facts...as facts. Presenting only one viewpoint doesn't do anybody any favors...except those who espouse said viewpoint. You can have the last word; I'm done debating this particular issue here. You've worn me down.
Well, the only company that is DESPERATE in the current U.S. auto market is the one and only......GM!
But everyone already knows that, right?
The automaker was supposed to get rid of its unresponsive culture in exchange for taxpayer salvation. Instead, it dithered as faulty ignition switches killed customers.
In two days of testimony, Barra tried very hard to delineate between an Old GM and a New GM, insisting that the company has been run differently since the bailout and 2009 bankruptcy.
But, given that Barra has admitted she only first heard about problems with the Chevrolet Cobalt in late December, and that senior management was only told about the need for a recall on Jan. 31, when the first wave was announced, it is easy to believe that the Old GM is still in firmly in place.
I see you mention sludge a lot, but I haven't seen it mentioned much elsewhere. Frankly it seems to me that this is grasping for straws - I would agree that Toy and Hon are not as good as they once were, and that the US nameplates are much better than before. But what you or I think doesn't really matter. The market is still not saying GM is some new great shakes from where it once was, from a market share perspective. And we can argue about who is better all day, but ultimately the market is deciding.
That is IMHO a pseudo-study that is designed to say "buy GM or Ford, and if you must, Chrysler" with numbers and tables. They basically give priority if company is US owned and based. Well, there are exactly two of those. Funny how they somehow consider Chrysler more US than Honda, which is funny as they are owned by Fiat. A legacy "slip", I guess. Old viewpoints die hard.
Looks like GM stock has taken a bit of a hit, but not as bad as I would have thought. I just checked to see if it would be worth it to sell mine at a strategic loss, but I've lost so little it's not worth it. And, if anything, it makes the dividend look a bit more attractive... 3.45%. Heck, maybe I should buy a little more! It closed today at $34.11 per share, and I bought in at $34.46, so no big whoop. However, I had seen it go up to about $37 per share, so that made it "hurt" a bit worse.
Still, my online broker, Scottrade, gives GM a 5 start (out of 5) rating. They'll pull through this. Hopefully.
It also has the GM brands (Chevy in this case) name on it, which automatically rules it out for many people. Take ValueJet - they had a bad crash and rebranded as AirTran, and became very successful. GM should have rebranded (something that I said back during BK). The afficianados of GM would have still bought them, and those who wouldn't consider GM might have felt that this was a company they should try. With the way it has gone, to most non-GM buyers it is still that same old do-not-consider GM.
Specific Motors? Captain Motors? Definite Motors?
"Being an auditor, you know that accuracy and exact wording is are important."
Sorry, I just couldn't resist.
Touche. I deserved that. I'm a spelling freak but type fast and hit 'save comment'. At work I'd have caught that.
No problem, it was just too tempting to ignore! I like to relax a bit when not at work, too...
Was the handling of the sludging done well, in your opinion. You're making my point. People don't talk about the sludging because the PC folks feel that negatives about toyota were unacceptable.
Were that the sludging with all the antics by toyota were GM's baby, how would it be handled today? Hush, hush, seldom mentioned because the brand is so lovable? OR....?
I hesitated using my perfect car brand label because I know we're past that point.
But the market is based on past history and on people's word-of-mouth as to the relative reliability of cars based on 8-10 year old information from the word of mouth people. Because far too few people research a car based on current value. Instead they use Matilda who bought this great 2001 Camry and kept it for 10 years until 2011 and has been telling everyone how great the reliability was 13 years ago on Camrys.
That helps make my point. Maybe we're not as far apart as might seem. Remember I looked at the Accord again for this purchase. My wife wouldn't even test drive it, however I gave it a whirl.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I've got to say that I have never depended on nor relied upon ANY information on ANY forum that doesn't have the requirement of the bona fide actual names of posters to be shown, as well as how they can be contacted to gain additional information.
Forums that allow usernames to be coined and used for posting may be informative, and sometimes even helpful, but unless the comments contain sourced information, properly documented, I take the comments with a grain of salt.
Makes for interesting conversation, but that's about it...
Grasping at straws means the sludge problems were common to lots of cars, affected only a small percentage of vehicles, and it was also 12 years ago. Oh, and Toyota paid for the repairs. Move on. Not a factor in today's Toyotas and not a big factor then. The vast majority of Toyotas have not suffered this issue so it doesn't affect buying perceptions. It has nothing to do with wanting to defend Toyotas. They don't need defending. Hopefully Chevy can fix this problem and move on too.
'24 Chevy Blazer EV 2LT
At the end of the day, the only thing that matters is what the market is buying. We can all talk about quality, price, availability, an so on, but it all boils down in the end to what sells.
The days of people buying products primarily based upon others' previous experience are long gone, if in fact they ever really existed. And, considering automotive historical data, the fact that a particular make/model was an outstanding vehicle when Aunt Jane had one 12 years ago really doesn't mean squat in an environment changing so rapidly that a 12 year old example wouldn't ever resemble the current model being sold today.
Extremely few new vehicle owners keep their car for longer than 6-7 years...
Leasing owners keep them even shorter lengths of time.
That's a big reason you don't see a lot of sales marketing talking up any brand's long-term history. When they do, it's usually from a generic standpoint, not specific model by model.
I dunno - we still have fond memories of our '82 Tercel (and I still have vivid memories of bad Volvos from the 70s and friend's Volvos in the 80s and 90s.) We're shopping Toyota after a 14 year hiatus but I don't think I'll ever consider a Volvo.
And lots of people use their real names but you can't rely on what they say. And I'm not just referring to politicans.
I collect most of my reliability biases from people I deal with a lot: repair shops and wrecking yards. I feel that have some hard data (that you have to "filter" however) that might be useful.
For instance, there is a pickup truck X that one wrecking yard will only purchase very cheaply for scrap or sheet metal pieces, because they feel all the major components will be useless. And Pickup truck B has a very high rate of failure, and disproportionate to the number of B trucks out there.
Of course, they are talking about trucks which are 3 to 10 years old.
I thought the average age of cars on the road is 12 years old, and the data show people keep cars longer (probably because cars tend to last longer nowadays).
'24 Chevy Blazer EV 2LT
I got one at 15, one at 7, and the other one at 1 (2?). And the newest one was booked for a minimum of 10 years before I would approve the purchase!
I use a 2x rule of thumb. Whatever the loan term required to get an acceptable monthly payment, you have to keep it the same length of time after the loan is paid off (though in my life, I have never gone the full term on a loan. They were always paid off early).
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Don't confuse original owner vehicle period of ownership with length of service time.
Last I checked, the average original car ownership was 5-7 years, depending on model, and the average age of cars on the road was around 12 years...
I spent about $1,000 last week on the '99 Quest to get it back home from our road trip. The '97 Outback is even older, though with 100k fewer miles (only 10 years owned by us). Sometimes it's not good to be above average.
Then again, $1k is just a few car payments.
What kind of repair had to be done on the Quest?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
might only be a few car payments, but if you aren't getting the money back out you put in, still a waste since you will be buying a new car shortly anyway.
I look at it as, I could have bought the car now instead, and driven new for the 2-3 months, instead of nursing the van along! Plus, never know when the next crapout happens.
your situation is also the downside to nursing a bomber along. You never know when it is going to break, and you take a big risk getting very far from home. Also playing roulette with the minimal value it has if you sold it running vs. scrap cost when it get towed away.
I never want to go down the "just one more repair, I already have so much in it" path again if I can help it!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
@imidazol97, distributor (again). Main irritant was that no codes were thrown that an indy mechanic could find (no Nissan dealer in Port Huron). The service writer told me that the fancy Nissan scan tool found a "pre-code" indicating a distributor issue.
@stickguy, we did put it on craigs ~3 years ago before our last move, but didn't push too hard. We were asking $2,600. And it was nice for our NY, NM and Newfoundland trips the last couple of years. Better gas mileage of a Prius would have been nice too though. Part of it is being in the boonies with no close dealers near by. The only thing worse than car shopping to me is driving two hours one way to a dealer to car shop.
Since I drive them forever, I never really worry about the resale on my cars. We put about $3,200 into the van in 2008. We're into it for $2,700 the last two years for repairs and tires. In 2011, I spent $366 on it, $740 in 2010, $89 in '09. Total lifetime is $10,148 or .10 a mile. Or $725 a year. Or $60 a month. So it's not going to bother me too much when my wife makes me walk away from it this summer. :-)
Last year my brother got rear-ended traveling in Vermont in his new Odyssey and spent a couple of weeks holed up in a motel and driving a rental Fiat 500 around, so getting stranded isn't limited to those of us driving beaters.
So that means that reputations last a long time. It also means that the length of track record matters. I guess saving $0.50/switch isn't such a wise accounting practice after all...
Huh? Not sure what "current value" means. There is current apparent value. But real value is determined long term. Things that look really good might not be. As has been recently posted here about Hyundai - the latest Sonata design was heralded, and now we see some warts. Similarly, Ford's recent vehicles like Escape look really good, but then lots of "My Ford Touch" problems. So actual demonstrated value over time wasn't as good as had appeared, and Ford stumbled their toes.
Union Motors?
I keep my cars a long time. The shortest I ever kept a car is 88K miles. The longest was 225K. I'm currently at 140K on a nearly 10 year old car. I figure others can eat their depreciation - I'm saving for vacations!
busiris, I'd be perfectly OK with putting my name on my forum posts. In fact, I suggested that during the changes here. I was told "that will never happen". We have to do that on an old-car forum I frequent. I think it cuts way down on the trolling and childish remarks. On a side note, I don't believe in running to the moderators whenever someone doesn't agree with something posted. I have a hunch (and that's all it is), that that's done a fair amount on Edmunds' forums.
General Motors is having a bad year. But the automaker got some good news on Tuesday when two GM SUVs earned top ratings in a new crash test.
The Chevrolet Equinox and the GMC Terrain are the only two vehicles to earn the top rating from the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, which conducted a challenging crash test on nine popular midsize SUVs.
http://money.cnn.com/2014/04/08/autos/gm-suv-safety/index.html?iid=HP_LN
I can't say about any posters running to the moderators... That's a question best left to Steve and Shifty.
Like you, I'd have no problem using my real name. I'm not out to intentionally misdirect anyone, and I'd bet that holds true for most of the "regulars" here. I think, like you, it makes for a more honest, clean exchange.
I guess my point was this... If I happened to be on an astrophysics forum that required real names (BTW, not a usual hangout of mine) and I saw a post authored by Neil DeGrasse Tyson, I'd probably pay more attention to it than the same post authored by Stardude_BR549 on another forum without such a requirement. I think most probably feel that way, too.
lol, how do you know it's the "real" Tyson though? Can you trust the vetting? Can you do the math? Remember the proposal to tie real names/addresses with emails via the US Postal Service? That might have made them a bundle. The real problem I see is "extra-legal" harassment from someone who doesn't like what you post, even if it's not inflammatory. If you need to subpoena to get the member info, that's a bit better because theoretically a non-biased party is overseeing the request.(And complaints to mods are pretty rare - everyone seems to get along nicely around Edmunds).
Guess I should post this in the GM Fans discussion:
GM twin SUVs top crash test (Detroit News)
Busiris, that is the funniest post of yours I believe I've ever read. I picked up on the BR-549 thing BTW. Also BTW, Neil can't do the "Billions and Billions" like Carl could, does he? LOL
BR-549. Ah, yes. Junior Sample's reliable used car sales. I once used that as the security code for our home security service. I missed the code once and had to answer the call from Dallas. The lady got a real kick out of my codeword.
You should ditch that Subaru before the head gaskets blow, or at least put away $1500 bucks for it.
I agree with you though that resale value is a moot point if you're going to keep a vehicle a long, long time. I prefer to think of a car as something I "use up"--not unlike a racing team's outlook about its car---it only has to last as long as the finish line. If I got 200K and 10 years out of a car, it owes me nothing.
Completely valid point. GM's problem is that most shoppers don't consider the Malibu, so no matter how good it is these days there won't be many people singing their praises 10 - 12 years down the road.
Can't disagree and I'm not really looking forward to the trip to NM in it next month. The van is just more comfy. My local guy already gave me an estimate for the head gaskets - $1,500, just as you say.
We have every intention of testing a Prius in a couple of weeks. The few in inventory may be gone before we get over that way though.
Imidazol97 and Uplanderguy, will be.
We're more open-minded, I guess.
Similarly, I wonder how many people back in the mid-sixties would have thought that the biggest single-marque car club in the country would be...the Studebaker Drivers' Club.
I'll admit that smaller Studebaker clubs had folded into the S.D.C. over the years, but at a reasonable $31.50 for twelve 66-page magazines, can't beat it.
Whoops, that's not a car built this century. LOL