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The Current State of the US Auto Market
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Comments
Am I missing something? Have they invented a 5 minute fill-up?
The reference was from another poster; I didn't see the Tesla claims directly.
It was my understanding that they were putting a price on your time - not needing to periodically drive some extra distance and take some extra time to fill the tank of a traditional car. You apparently pull into your garage, plug it in, and in the morning it's charged. No extra time (except the plug-in) required.
Back in 2003, my Dad wanted to buy a car, and we went to the dealer where I had bought my 2000 Intrepid. We test drove a new Stratus SXT, which I think we could've gotten for around $16-17K. 4-cyl engine, about 150 hp. As much as I wanted to like that car, it was a dog, and just felt cheap overall. I thought it looked good, and it felt roomy enough for me, but that wasn't enough to make me want it, or recommend it to my Dad. I remember him asking me what I thought of it first, and I said, somewhat diplomatically, that I didn't like it. He replied that he was glad I said that, because he wasn't impressed either, but valued my opinion.
So, he ended up with a used Regal LS with about 19,500 miles on it, for $12,840 out the door, which included an extended warranty that he wanted. He still has that Regal, and as far as I know it's been a pretty good car.
Sad to see that Chrysler is still behind the times in the midsized class. I've sat in a few Avengers and 200's, and sometimes think that, if I could get one cheap enough, it might be tempting. But then, I keep thinking that if I end up hating it and regretting it, it's not a good deal, at any price!
I know they've improved a lot since that 2003 Stratus, or even since the current style first came out for 2007. But, it's just not enough.
No definitely not. Just a lame offering overall. I agree that it offers enough room, but the only reason to buy an Avenger is for price. To many other offerings that are far, far, better.
Believe me, the ATS is no Cimmaron. The Cimmaron was a cynical marketing exercise and a thinly disguised Cavalier. The ATS isn't a Cruze in a tuxedo.
Since I haven't driven the ATS I can't express an opinion on this. If it's true, though, I hope Cadillac engineers are working on refining these engines because I think the ATS has some really good attributes.
Lemko, what were your impressions of the 2.0, regarding smoothness, sound and power delivery.
My local area allotment sold out - I asked a salesman how most were optioned, he said MSRP around 34K.
Here's a vid, they can do it in about 90 seconds:
http://youtu.be/5VH4JloWFEI
But...only at designated locations, and you have to exchange and get your battery back, which presumably would be on your way home anyway.
In the US fuel pumps are limited to 10 gallons per minute, so you couldn't fill up a 20 gallon fuel tank as quickly.
Sort of the same way swapping a battery on your portable drill is quicker than refueling your 2 cycle lawn equipment.
I'll admit a lot of gas stations seem a bit slower than 10 gallons/minute. But I'd call it a tie either way with most cars.
Most people go to gas stations in their way (not out of the way) as well. NO gain there.
What if you leave home 5 times in a day? You'll have to plug in and out 5 times whereas you'd only need to get gas once.
What if you leave home at night and it's not fully charged yet, and you need a full charge?
Also, given enough tax rebates everyone could build a mini-gas station in the garage too. You could fill up at night then too.
A8: 23.8 gallons
BMW 760: 21.1 gallons
Benz S600: 23.8 gallons
10 gallons per minute is the max allowed, most pumps are much slower than that.
There are the obvious limitations, but the guy who owns any of those German supersedans has 5.3 cars anyway.
$100/hr for gas station time, still a LOL idea.
However, that all changed when I noticed the overpriced on-track gas stations at both Buttonwillow and Spring Mountain seem to give you every bit of that 10 gallons per minute (if not more), and it seemed lightning fast. I liked it, now that I've experienced it.
I'd pay 1 to 2 cents more per gallon for it.
Someone was drag racing one at the Euro car show in San Diego the other weekend and they were beating the crap out of the American muscle cars.
I think the only two vehicles I have that DON'T have 20 gallon tanks are my 2000 Park Ave, which has 18.5 gallons, and my '85 Silverado, which originally had two 16 gallon saddle tanks. However, they both went bad, and I couldn't afford to get them both replaced, so I just had one replaced and one disabled.
My 2012 Ram has a 28 gallon tank, and I think my '67 Catalina has a 26 or 27 gallon. My '79 New Yorkers are around 21-22 gallons, and my '76 LeMans is around 21.5 I think. I believe my '57 DeSoto is 22 gallons.
But, you're right...even with those cars, I don't let them get so low that I'm putting in 20 gallons. On the older cars, economy can vary widely and fuel gauges don't always work, so I tend to err on the side of caution. And on the Ram, if I let that sucker get too low it would bankrupt me! :-P
Most it ever held was 18.9 gallons.
Typical fill is around 15 to 16 gallons.
But a Tesla would handily beat my MINI---I wouldn't dare to race it except in turns.
Yeah, I think the first car advertised as a musclecar, the 1964 GTO, was good for 0-60 in about 7.7 seconds. And that's with a stick shift, stripped down, and no a/c. About what my 2000 Park Ave Ultra will do.
I think some musclecars did get down to around 5 seconds in 0-60, with the biggest engines and really short gears, but they'd be screaming by the time they hit 100 mph.
I wonder how those old engines would do with the advantage of more transmission gears, like today's cars have? Most musclecars only gave you four forward gears with a stick, and three with an automatic.
Consumer Reports tested a 1969 or so Dodge Charger that was sort of a happy medium between performance and top speed. It had the 375 hp 440, IIRC, but a Torqueflite automatic and 3.23:1 gears. They got 0-60 in 7.0 seconds out of it. And I don't think it had air conditioning.
Cars really have come a long way. These days, I wonder if they even make anything that takes more than 10 seconds to get from 0-60? Back in the late '60's, 10 seconds was pretty quick. Your typical full-sized car with a 318, 302, or mild 327/350 was probably good for 0-60 in around 12-13 seconds. With midsized cars, it was more like 10-12. And some cheap compacts with the base engines were more like 17-20! Even worse, some of those little foreign jobs were more like 25-30! VW used to brag that the Bug could hit its top speed quicker than most other cars. In the fine print, they admitted that top speed was around 75 or so.
I know I know, you'll say nothing changed. Sometimes specifications that have been lowered are not visible to the untrained naked eye."
And, decontenting would make the car less reliable? LOL
And there is simply no way the '06 was decontented. I know the cars.
Did you ever take a statistics course? There is such a thing as sample error.
I think that's simply one of those things that can't be explained, like how the sound system in a V6 of one model is more reliable than in the V8 of the same model.
The fact is manufacturing something as complicated as an automobile means variation happens even if the design and parts don't change. The reality is things do change regardless. Even the most repeatable process has some variation.
As for stereos, it could be sample error or it could be real. Different trim levels often offer different stereos. My last two higher trim vehicles had 6 disk CD players which both failed while I owned the vehicle. A lower trim model with a single CD likely wouldn't have the same failure rate.
How else can you explain the 2009 recall of the cobalt for possible roll away due to a shift linkage defect only affecting certain 2009 gm vehicles. Or the steering tv problem probe initiated in 2010 due to a flood of complaints in 2009.
Disclaimer: the above can be applied to any manufacturer not just GM.
I saw a few of those roadsters when I was in Cali a couple of years ago. They may not sound like anything but they seriously, took off like a shot. I don't think I've seen Astons or Lambos launch that hard in my life.
And with none of the drama either, they just hooked up and went.
I'm still amused by the other poster's hyperbole. Meaningless. I don't even read some posts because of the history of such exaggeration.
I'm surprised no one is pointing out how silly such a statement is. And coming from a VW brands owner. LOL
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Our Identifix rating do show some engine issues in 2010 that earlier Cobalt sedans didn't have (they didn't have turbos perhaps?).
I do think there were turbos in some years, not others, though, although ideally those two models should be identified separately in reliability charts. Perfect-world scenario though, I realize.
It's hard for me to believe that when getting a new model ready for introduction, the first-year would be the most reliable, with vendor contracts probably set up for long time periods. To say that GM made deliberate efforts to cheapen the product significantly in the second model year, affecting reliability, seems rather comical.
As far as the shifter recall, my guess is that the supplier didn't change, but a quality issue happened there. I'm aware that CR compares all models of a model year together. But I think it's comical to say, 'avoid this year, two years later, buy the one in the middle and the first', when that defies all automotive logic. Sure, small changes will occur, but I doubt significant things happen in a model where almost no engineering changes or assembly location changes took place in the entire model run.
Our blurb says "Reliability Ratings by Identifix is based from repair shop-reported issues. Though this data may be for years prior to model you are researching, it exposes how reliable this model platform has been historically."
The front side marker light housing just fell off on the van on our recent road trip. RockAuto wants $42 for a non-OEM one, without the bulb. That sounds a lot cheaper than I was expecting.
In early 2012 98,000 Cobalt coupes from the 2005–06 model years were recalled after it was discovered they did not meet federal safety requirements because of a lack of adequate padding in a specific area of the vehicle's trim. This resulted in an unacceptable vulnerability to head injuries, though GM claimed the vulnerability would only affect motorists not wearing a seat belt.
On March 2, 2010, GM announced a recall of 1.3 million compact cars in North America, including the Chevrolet Cobalt, because of power steering problems. GM plans on fixing older models before fixing current models, as the car was replaced by the Chevrolet Cruze in late 2010. The Pontiac G5 and its international variants were also affected, though GM had already ended production of the Pontiac brand by that point. The following recall is due to extreme heat causing damage to the plastic fuel pump lines. The recall is only for states in the southern part of the U.S.A. On September 28, 2012, GM announced a recall of 40,859 cars including the Chevrolet Cobalt from the 2007-09 model year because of a potential fuel leak.
Total Cobalts Built = 1,147,315
As a comparison....
As of 2006, a total of 16.5 million Civics had been sold worldwide, with 7.3 million of them in the United States. By 2012, Civic has been the top-selling car in Canada for 14 years. With high gas prices and a weak economy in June 2008, the Civic supplanted the Ford F-Series to become the top-selling vehicle in the United States for that month.
Recalls
Honda Motor Co said on Friday July 31, 2009 that it is recalling 440,000 vehicles sold in the United States, including some of its best-selling Accord and Civic models for a potentially lethal airbag defect.[23]
Honda said that the airbag inflators in some of its top-selling sedans can rupture because of too much air pressure causing metal fragments to shoot through the airbag and strike vehicle occupants.
One fatality and a number of injuries have been linked to the defect, Honda spokesman Sage Marie said.
The recall covers certain 2001 and 2002 Accords, 2001 Civics and some 2002 and 2003 model Acura TL sedans. The inflator for the driver's side airbag is the defective component on the affected vehicles.
Honda said owners of those models can check to see if their vehicle is covered by the recall by checking the automaker's website at www.owners.honda.com/recalls.
The Japanese automaker said it was encouraging owners to wait until they received a recall notice to go to a dealership and have the inflator for the steering-wheel airbag replaced.
Honda had originally announced that it would recall some 2001 Accord and Civic sedans for the defect in November 2009. Since that time, Service Bulletin 08-093 has been expanded to cover several VINs in the 2001–2002 Accord coupe and sedan, the 01-02 Civic coupe and sedan, one 2003 Civic, the 02-03 CRV, the 2002 Odyssey, and one 2003 Pilot.
I'm happy with what I have. I'm not knocking your vehicle or anyone else's on here.
For those who trust CR implicitly, they say my daughter's '09 is as reliable as an '09 Accord.
I much prefer relying on my own experience however...which is good.
Sample error is not the excuse for all of one's personal biases.
There is certainly plenty of personal bias on this board.
Again, IMHO, one simply cannot ignore that sample error exists either.
The Cobalt is discontinued. The Civic lives on...
I much prefer the better product.
That says a lot.
The new slew of CEO's at GM have been more candid in their criticisms of GM than have previous CEO's.
Frankly, in order to make cars as bad as GM and Chrysler sometimes do, they are either doing it on purpose (and in my opinion committing fraud), or they are simply totally incompetent.
Biggest reason I haven't bought a domestic in 15 years. And if they organize Chatanooga, I will continue my string of having never owned a VW product as well.
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That's certainly a good sign and a marked demonstration of improvement.
However, I wonder what would happen if we looked at the same models not at a point in time where the data is 3 to 4 years old, but 6 or 7 to 8.
Like Tercel, Celica, Echo, Previa...you know.
No one...and it's indisputable...has more recalls than Toyota. In your mind, does that make them worse than other cars with fewer recalls?