Thanks to Edmunds for the T-shirts; my wife just called to tell me that they showed up on our porch this afternoon. Edmunds.com T-shirts for everyone coming to MAPP II!
Thank you Edmunds!
I just checked the NWS forecast for MAPP II again. They're calling for a 30 percent chance of "scattered showers" Friday night, but Saturday promises to be sunny and cool -- temps in the mid-60s. Nice fall picnic weather, I'd say ... but I can just see all of us now, out there in our driveways at the crack of dawn, feverishly rinsing and drying our poor, rain-spotted Proteges ...
JUST LIKE LAST YEAR!!!! LOL!!!
MAPP II = FOUR DAYS. I'm outta here for the day; see you guys tomorrow!
The engine uses the same block as the US 1.8/2.0 so, it does look similar. The exhaust and the intake manifolds look different. Engine + install is about $3000.
Difference... Well, the first things I noticed were the increase in throttle responce and how quickly the tac jumped to 5000 RPM. The car likes to be shifted at higher RPM than my stock 1.8L. I've lost some feel for my 1.8L because I haven't driven it in 1 1/2 weeks so, it's tough to compare. It is definitely faster, though. My GUESS is low 16 quarter mile.
I'm interested to see what the corksport ECU will do.
167 horsepower? Cool! That's without any forced air intake (turbo, SC)? That is pretty good, but I bet there isn't alot of low-end torque either. How much different does the car drive? And is your engine a 2.0 or a 1.8?
That 136 miles at delivery is a bit high, I can't explain it and neither coudl the salesman. The LX was shipped to them, it's on the sticker. The Honda Odyssey had 186 miles on its ODO when I took delivery in 1998, somebody had carried a Christmas tree in it -- bits on the carpet. I can say the Odyssey had been on the dealer's lot since November and I bought it in March 1998. They get a lot of test drives.
In both cases, the routes they tell people to take are not hard on the cars and the salesman always goes along.
the fs-ze is a 2.0L and it's non-aspirated (NA). Of course those specs are at the crank, not the wheels. It's definitely not a torque beast. Most of the power comes at higher RPM. I'm pretty happy with it. Hell, a civic si has 160 hp and 111 lb/ft torque. So, the fs-ze beats it by 7-8 hp and 22 lb/ft torque. I'd like to race one but, it'd be hard to find one with only minor or no mods.
Not that the MP3 isn't great already, but I really don't understand why Mazda didn't use that FS-ZE in the MP3. I really like my car (2001 ES 2.0L), but it would be a knockout if it came with the FS-ZE engine from the factory. I know you're broke Mazda, but the Protege would have been SO good with that motor here in the US. I would have GLADLY paid an extra $1000 for the opportunity to have that motor stock from the factory.
I don't know who said that the MP3 is too "pricey", but they are talking out of their hat.
The Protege ES (the starting point for the MP3) goes for about 16,500 US. Add 4 Racing Hart wheels at $385/per comes out at $1580, the Kenwood MP3 head unit about $500, upgraded speakers and sub-woofer another $200 easy. Then you add brand name chassis mods, Dunlop SP9000 Sports (4 x 165) and the car to create it yourself is easily three thousand dollars retail, right? Plus the engine mods and it's got a factory warranty!!
I don't see how anyone thinks that the MP3 is not a whale of a deal! All that and you get change back from your $20,000 bill!
fyi: the warranty i was talking about earlier is Plan NC4810 (for $220 cdn). coverage for 48 mos / 100,000 kms from the original date of purchase. this plan covers the same components as the new vehicle warranty (36 mos / 80,000 kms). 'duh'
Well, I know that two of those four "competitors" are quite a bit more expensive than the MP3 -- the Impreza and the Jetta. So I assume the MP3's competition, in its price class, is the Neon and the Sentra? Are these cars just versions of the regular sedans with bigger engines, or do they have the tuned suspension, exhaust and other tweaks similar to the MP3?
I just e-mailed the latest update on the second-annual Mid-Atlantic Protege Picnic out to everyone on the list. There's some important info in there -- my cell phone number for emergencies, and step-by-step directions to the park. So check your e-mail!
There's still time to get your name on the list, everyone! If any of our fellow Edmunds members (or lurkers) are interested in coming to the picnic in Northern Virginia this Saturday, e-mail me at:
There were not many surprises, in terms of what they liked/didn't like. The rankings are a bit surprising though.
In fifth place, the bargain Neon R/T. It looks hot in red with black wheels (their test car had a $575 package that includes yellow letter tires, said black wheels, and some decals). Nonetheless, it came in under 18 grand, loaded with every option but the sunroof. It had the third best acceleration, grip, and lap times, and the second best braking distance. They liked the handling and mentioned that oversteer was readily available. What they didn't like was the NVH factor and balky shifter. They also mentioned a few ergonomic issues, such as placing the climate controls above the stereo, and the low-mounted in-dash CD changer. And of course, the interior materials were not up to par. Still, a lot of bang for the buck in this car.
Fourth was the Sentra SE-R Spec V. They really didn't like the shifter - "vague gates and awkward throws". They also complained that the rev limiter cut in just 100 rpm above the engine's peak power point. I realize this car has a big engine, but a 6100 rpm redline seems a bit low in this class. They complained that the engine/tranny combo required too much shifting. As expected, there were some negative comments about the interior color scheme, and the exterior styling didn't draw rave reviews either. But they loved the engine, and the SE-R was second in terms of acceleration. On the track, despite its rear beam axle, it was by far the fastest, almost 2 seconds ahead of the Jetta. They estimate the base price to be $17500 ($19500 as tested).
In third was the Jetta, in 180 hp 2002 model year trim. As expected, a lot of praise for the interior and the build quality. They also said it had a great ride. Despite its great engine (best acceleration in the test, lots of torque, etc) they said it was "posh not sporty". They also mentioned there was some torque steer and turbo lag. At $23500, the Jetta was the only car in the test that broke the $20k barrier, but it was loaded with the CD/cassette Monsoon system, sport luxury package, and leather package.
The Impreza 2.5RS placed second. It was second slowest, but 0-60 in 7.8 is fairly reasonable for a 165-hp 3000 lb AWD sedan. Grip and braking distances were worst of the group. On the racetrack, it was six seconds behind the Sentra and understeered too much. But its seats were best, the ergonomics got high marks, and the shifter and clutch were well liked. The fit and finish seemed "close to the Jetta". So while it wasn't the sportiest of the bunch, it was a very solid car.
And first place, the Protege MP3, despite its major power deficit. No surprise, it was slowest of the bunch, being the only car requiring more than 8 seconds 0-60. But it was best in terms of handling and was rated the most fun to drive. The ride was smooth, steering precise and communicative. They didn't like the MP3 audio system too much, and complained about the lack of cruise control, and a few tacky trim elements.
This just reaffirms what I think of the Protege - nothing wrong with it that an extra 40-50 hp wouldn't fix! I think Mazda should take the MP3 package, drop the fancy stereo, add cruise control, and make a sunroof and ABS optional. Oh, and strap on a turbo. That would be the perfect budget sports sedan.
I thought the MP3 was an ES with a lot of other cool stuff! Why'd they take out the cruise control? That was a dumb move if you ask me, which you didn't!
I'd like to echo their thoughts on the MP3 audio system. From the dashboard photos I've seen, the Kenwood player looks like a tacky add-on to an otherwise custom dash. And the buttons look so small, it appears it would be hard to operate. Also, the colors of the Kenwood unit don't match the rest of the dash -- which make it stand out as the tacky add-on that it is. (Can you tell I don't like the MP3 player?)
And to name the WHOLE CAR after the audio system? What's next -- the Mazda Protege Rockford Fosgate Limited Edition? Hell, the first time I heard of the MP3, I thought Mazda was coming out with a limited-edition Protege hatchback or something -- you know, MP3 = Mazda Protege 3? Like Protege5 = 5-door Protege?
So I guess I'll call my car the "MPCD+". The "+" because I have a cassette player too.
Actually, I don't know if there will be a "next" MP3 -- the October issue of Car and Driver magazine says Mazda has no plans to continue the MP3 into the next model year. Oh -- and the Protege5 won't carry the "5" after 2002 according to them as well.
I too read that there will be no more mp3, but instead an mps protege, possibly with a turbo, will be offered with maybe a pro5 version as well - Autoweek, I think. Some manufacturers talk alot about doing this or that special project in order to get people talking, but don't really mean it. GM is great at that. Don't know if that's what is happening here, but I for one think it's a great idea.
When I bought my MP3, the Focus SVT (which looks like a nice car) and the new Sentra were not out yet. But the Focus is not for me as I need the interior and trunk space. For about $18,500 (and of course you can negotiate) there is not a hell of a lot out there. I think the Jetta is a great car, but certainly no bargain. The Subaru is a car I've always liked, but perhaps not as sporting, and certainly a respectable piece. The Neon is just junk- horrible build quality, and a rattling tin can aftet it's broken in. The MP3 just has a great combination of qualities that make it a great value, and I am pleased to see C/D agreed. And don't knock the sound system! Believe me, even if you like Coltrane and Ella, it does wonders for your musical enjoyment!
OK. As the proud owner of a 2001 Mazda MP3, I have no problem with the Kenwood stereo. It took a little while to figure out the buttons and set the amps the way they sound best, but it did on my home unit, too. The day to day care and feeding of the car unit is changing stations - not a problem since you have three levels of FM presets and one level of AM presets. By flicking the "joystick" thing, you easily switch between the four stations. Plus each level FM1, FM2, FM3 & AM have six or seven preset buttons, meaning that you can set up most of the stations in the market on buttons, not just 5 or 6. The CDs or CD-Rs switch out quickly and if I really wanted to, I could add a CD changer into the trunk. Remember it is an aftermarket unit, not a "factory" one. It should look a bit different. My only true complaint on the Kenwood unit (in the Mazda factory placement) is that the screen washes out in bright sunlight.
---+---
The Protege MP3 is a trial balloon. Yes, it's the first production car with an MP3 player standard...that's the hook! It serves it's purpose by creating a buzz in the import tuning community (and getting more Protege stuff created and marketed) and gets Mazda a lot of ink. Every car magazine from R&T, Car & Driver to excellent second-tier mags like Grassroots Motorsports have written about and/or tested the car and the Pro5. Mazda never got that response on the LX or ES models. Sure, they might end up in a econobox round-up with the usual suspects, but never with stand-alone roadtests.
I would have never even thought of owning a Protege (didn't like the looks of the Gen 1 & 2 machines and didn't notice the Gen 3 until I saw the ad in Road & Track. It sold me on the car, since I was looking to create something close using either a PT Cruiser or a Honda. I got on the website, called the dealer the next day and Wantagh Mazda sold yet another MP3. I had been pondering what to buy for months, and since I couldn't find a loaded PT Cruiser with a 5 speed, knew that I'd have to look elsewhere. The other real plus is: everything is covered under warranty and the add-on stuff is all part of the purchase price (which as I mentioned before is a loss-leader considering the amount of stuff Racing Beat put in there). It could use a bit of extra horsepressure, but that gives the owner something to add!
>>>I thought the MP3 was an ES with a lot of other cool stuff! Why'd they take out the cruise control? That was a dumb move if you ask me, which you didn't!<<<<<
The underlying philosophy (from BMW) is:
the serious driver never likes a cruise control.
check out the bimmers....they too do not come with a cruise control as standard....it's a add-on.
because the next in lines will be called MPS. The MP3 was only a quickie job to prove that the Protege can be a ricer like all the rest. The MPS(Mazda Performance Series) cars will make the case that Mazda is serious about grass roots racing. I think it's a great idea and I can't wait to see some "boost" in 2002.
Chikoo reminds of a point I forgot to make: Who needs or wants Cruise Control? I have it on my Dodge Durango and never use it. I would hate it on the MP3 since it would add weight and who needs cruise on a manual transmission car?
ABS is another unneeded option. I learned years ago to stop a car without just nailing the brakes. Added clutter and weight.
Don't start the ABS thing in here. I was under the same impression for a while, but I've changed sides. With EBD(brake-force distribution), an ABS equipped car is superior unless you drive sand dunes, heavy snow and grassy fields.
talking about cruise control: How does it work on a manual car? On an Auto car, it can shift throu' gears and keep the speed on ups and downs. Manual??
Brakes: Same here. I always apply the brake halfway and then slowly push it in completely....releasing it slowly as the car slows down... Works great all the time....but needs lotsa practise..
But ABS is needed for the people who do not pay attention on the road...whether there is ice or oil spill on the road....THEY NEED ABS!!
I think most people do want/need ABS brakes. Otherwise, insurance companies wouldn't be giving discounts for it to policyholders.
I think not having cruise on the MP3 is a smart move. It's more a "road racer" than cruisemobile anyway. But mostly all performance cars do have ABS brakes. They should have put that on the MP3.
Ok, I wasn't gonna say anything, but I have to disagree with Chikoo's last statement. ABS is not just for people who do not pay attention on the road. The ability to steer and brake is an extremely useful feature, especially in cold weather conditions where traction is already highly lacking. I used to drive my parents '91 MPV around in the winter for years without using ABS. Never had a problem. But I do believe that ABS is a good feature that is not just for people that are not paying attention on the road. Hell, if you think that's true, than why do you need 4 wheel disc brakes? To stop faster? Jeez...if you ARE paying attention, than why would you need to stop faster? <------intense sarcasm
Gee, I guess I have a completely different opinion than you folks. I could care less if I had ABS but I NEED cruise control. I had ABS on my Integra and it was nice when I needed to stop quickly AND turn (which happened to be never in 3 years), but I really never needed it. I think it actually hampered things when it was icy or snowy out. Cruise control on the other hand is a must for me. I didn't have it on my Subaru and whenever I went on a road trip, my leg would cramp up badly.
I have not taken any long road trips in my car yet, but plan to take several to Atlanta and Florida within the next couple of months. I hardly ever use cruise control for some reason. Of course, the longest distance I have driven since I got my license has been like 400 miles at one time, but I still didn't use cruise.
When I am driving the 1500 miles between home and school. My previous vehicle was an anemic Mazda B2300 pickup circa 1997 and after driving a 12 hour day, the side of my right leg was sore from flexing my foot on the gas pedal all day. No joke. Having cruise in this situation is a very nice thing. On trips of less than 2 or 3 hours I don't use it but when you're driving a longer trip on a more or less straight road with light traffic and a constant speed limit, cruise is where it's at (especially if the terrain is hilly or mountainous).
As for ABS, it would probably be good to have - my P5 doesn't have it, but then again I spend 9 months of the year in southern New Mexico and the summer 3 in Chicago so it doesn't see bad weather very often. It doesn't hurt to have ABS but for me right now, it's not something I need to have.
Does anyone know if Mazda is going to continue the 0% financing and the free moonroof and alloys on the LX 2.0? 10/1 was the end date for that offer. Really want to get in the zoom, zoom game but without that offer - not sure if I'm going to prop up the economy. Any info greatly appreciated.
First, I guess I'm just plain old-fashioned when it comes to my dashboard. I like my factory CD stereo and cassette player. It matches everything, its lights dim with the dash dimmer control (maybe the Kenwood's does too, I don't know), and its display DOESN'T wash out in the sun. Hey, my opinion, OK? I'll respect yours too.
Sorry about the "real men don't use cruise control" argument, but if I'm paying for the top-of-the-line car, I want cruise control. I use mine a LOT. Oh, I have a 5-speed too. What difference does that make? I still do a lot of highway driving and cruise is wonderful. And how much weight does cruise control add, for pete's sake? Are you the type of guy who installs drilled aluminum pedals for the 8 ounces they'll save, but then adds two pounds worth of chain-link license plate frame and 80 pounds of needless amps and subwoofers in his trunk? Just asking.
BTW, my older brother just bought a brand-new BMW 5-series sedan, and it came with cruise standard -- and not just any old cruise control; this one has that sonar-sensing stuff that slows the car down if you get too close to another car with the cruise on. Funky stuff for a $60,000 car, eh?
I tend to agree with Chikoo on the ABS, but for another reason. My boss owned a 1988 Mazda 626 -- the one with 4-wheel steering. Remember that fad? His ABS light came on and stayed on back in 1995, and even though the car was only 7 years old, Mazda didn't stock the ABS unit for it anymore and would have to special-order it from the manufacturer. Guess the manufacturer's price? $2,200.00.
When it comes to ABS, EBFD and other newer-technology stuff, I admit that the new stuff is wonderful. It's amazing how they've been able to improve automobile safety and pleasure in recent years. But to agree with Chikoo, many of us "older" (wow, I'm the ripe old age of 36) types drove for years without any of this stuff, and we didn't kill ourselves. I traded in a car with ABS for a 2000 Protege that doesn't have ABS, for the simple reason that my fat body didn't leave me any headroom with the sunroof I had to purchase to get ABS. (I feel it was pathetically stupid of Mazda to only offer ABS as part of a package that included the sunroof on the 2000s.)
Yes, ABS is great. But buy the extended warranty; you'll need it if you plan to "drive your car into the ground." ABS parts are VERY expensive, even if your car hasn't been discontinued. Oh -- ABS adds quite a bit of weight to a car too -- quite a bit more than drilled aluminum pedals.
Here ya go -- I just took the liberty of calling my dealer's service department -- Whitten Brothers Mazda in Richmond, VA -- and got the price on the ABS hydraulic unit for a 2001 Protege. I must admit I almost had to pick myself up off the floor, guys. I'm not lying -- this is what the parts manager told me after looking it up. You ready? It's $1,500.00.
Guess if the ABS light in my car comes on after the warranty goes, then I will just do without the ABS. I ain't trying to pay $1500 for it.
I did have a 1994 Pont. Bonneville with 150K on it and beat to hell. Everything went on that car, but never the ABS brakes. So maybe they do last a long time.
"When it comes to ABS, EBFD and other newer-technology stuff, I admit that the new stuff is wonderful. It's amazing how they've been able to improve automobile safety and pleasure in recent years. But to agree with Chikoo, many of us "older" (wow, I'm the ripe old age of 36) types drove for years without any of this stuff, and we didn't kill ourselves. I traded in a car with ABS for a 2000 Protege that doesn't have ABS, for the simple reason that my fat body didn't leave me any headroom with the sunroof I had to purchase to get ABS. (I feel it was pathetically stupid of Mazda to only offer ABS as part of a package that included the sunroof on the 2000s.)"
That echos the thoughts in my head exactly. Of all the cars I've owned, only my last one, a '99 Passat, had ABS.
SInce I plan to drive this car forever, simple is better anyway.
In Virginia, if your car has ABS and it's not working, it won't pass annual State Inspection. They gotcha!
My boss wound up trading the car as-is, but didn't get much for it since the dealership he traded it to knew, just like he found out, that the cost of the new ABS unit was more than the entire car was worth!
I agree that many people drove around without ABS and never got killed. How about air bags. A lot people drove without air bags (and still do) and they are not killed. Hey I guess it's just the boy scout in me: "Be Prepared"
Speaking of the MP3 specifically -- it already comes with super low-profile summer tires, so it really is not meant for icy roads (ABS or not). It can, however, stop on a dime in the rain.
Also, not sure who brought this up, but I believe the reason that the MP3 does not have cruise, is because the placement of its strut tower bar would interfere with the standard ES cruise.
Now why it doesn't have a sunroof is anybody's guess. It would seem that this type of car would have one. Not that I miss it -- my last car had a sunroof that leaked. I ended up having to use several treatments of silicone to seal it shut.
Here in Maryland, we don't have safety inspections except for emissions, so I won't have a problem if the ABS does quit. I plan to get an extended warranty for the car as well at some point, so I will be able to get the car repaired under warranty if anything happens.
Sporin: I was curious as to why you traded the Passat (a car that's in a higher class) for a P5. Why didn't you just keep the Passat and drive it forever?
The MP3 has no sunroof? That's a sporty aspect of a car one would think. It also takes away from the structural integrity a little bit though, so maybe that's why.
The car was leased.... m y last 4 cars were leased. I didn't want to lease again. I couldn't really, I bought a house quite a bit farther away from my work then I used to live. So mileage became a problem.
Add to that a burning desire to spend my "extra" money on other things. I wanted a solid, reliable, but FUN TO DRIVE car for around $17k. Bonus points if it was a wagon and Japanese!
The Pro5 was a perfect fit. :-)
VW's offerings at that price point are pathetic IMO. The 2.0 cars are dogs and the 1.8T cars are too expensive. Plus, 2 years of VW "service" was enough for me. They will need to make MAJOR strides in that area to get my business again.
There are a few things I miss about my Passat, but overall, I am extremely pleased with my Phiver!
Comments
2001 Protege ES 5-speed w/ moonroof
Black Mica
only add-ons were the factory mud guards and the cargo net.
Bought: July 28th, 2001
Mileage at Purchase: 10 miles
Mileage Now: 2,800
Thank you Edmunds!
I just checked the NWS forecast for MAPP II again. They're calling for a 30 percent chance of "scattered showers" Friday night, but Saturday promises to be sunny and cool -- temps in the mid-60s. Nice fall picnic weather, I'd say ... but I can just see all of us now, out there in our driveways at the crack of dawn, feverishly rinsing and drying our poor, rain-spotted Proteges ...
JUST LIKE LAST YEAR!!!! LOL!!!
MAPP II = FOUR DAYS. I'm outta here for the day; see you guys tomorrow!
ZOOM ZOOM ZOOM
Meade
Difference... Well, the first things I noticed were the increase in throttle responce and how quickly the tac jumped to 5000 RPM. The car likes to be shifted at higher RPM than my stock 1.8L. I've lost some feel for my 1.8L because I haven't driven it in 1 1/2 weeks so, it's tough to compare. It is definitely faster, though. My GUESS is low 16 quarter mile.
I'm interested to see what the corksport ECU will do.
How much hp/torque does the fs-ze make?
133 lb/ft torque
-no rocket but, better than my 122hp/120 torque!
If you wanna see a rocket, check out the link I posted on the "photo gallery"
133 lb/ft torque
-no rocket but, better than my 122hp/120 torque!
If you wanna see a rocket, check out the link I posted on the "photo gallery"
In both cases, the routes they tell people to take are not hard on the cars and the salesman always goes along.
fowler3
The Protege ES (the starting point for the MP3) goes for about 16,500 US. Add 4 Racing Hart wheels at $385/per comes out at $1580, the Kenwood MP3 head unit about $500, upgraded speakers and sub-woofer another $200 easy. Then you add brand name chassis mods, Dunlop SP9000 Sports (4 x 165) and the car to create it yourself is easily three thousand dollars retail, right? Plus the engine mods and it's got a factory warranty!!
I don't see how anyone thinks that the MP3 is not a whale of a deal! All that and you get change back from your $20,000 bill!
The car showed no overt signs of abuse, and frankly, there's no point fretting about it in my opinion.
It was the only manual, base Pro5 in 4 states. So I bought it.
(I'm not being sarcastic. I am truly curious.)
Meade the Curious
(oh no, not again!)
the warranty i was talking about earlier is Plan NC4810 (for $220 cdn). coverage for 48 mos / 100,000 kms from the original date of purchase. this plan covers the same components as the new vehicle warranty (36 mos / 80,000 kms).
'duh'
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Here we go, from 911AS's post over at http://www.freshalloy.com:
The cars:
Dodge Neon R/T (150hp@6600, 135lbs@4800)
Mazda Protege MP3 (140hp@6000, 142lbs@4500)
Nissan Sentra Spec V (175hp@6000, 180lbs@4000)
Subaru Impreza 2.5RS (165hp@5600, 166lbs@4000)
Volks Jetta 1.8T 2002 (180hp@5500, 174lbs@1950)
----Performance----
Acceleration 0-30mph (seconds):
Neon 2.5
Protege 2.6
Sentra 2.8
Impreza 2.5
Jetta 2.6
Acceleration 0-60mph (seconds):
Neon 7.6
Protege 8.3
Sentra 7.4
Impreza 7.8
Jetta 7.2
Acceleration 0-100mph (seconds):
Neon 23.2
Protege 25.3
Sentra 20.1
Impreza 24.4
Jetta 20.7
Acceleration 1/4mile (seconds):
Neon 16.1@87mph
Protege 16.5@84mph
Sentra 15.7@90mph
Impreza 16.1@mph
Jetta 15.7@89mph
Acceleration 5-60mph (seconds):
Neon 8.2
Protege 8.9
Sentra 7.8
Impreza 8.3
Jetta 8.3
Acceleration 30-50mph (seconds):
Neon 10.4
Protege 11.7
Sentra 9.8
Impreza 10.1
Jetta 12.6
Acceleration 50-70mph (seconds):
Neon 11.0
Protege 12.9
Sentra 10.9
Impreza 11.0
Jetta 9.8
Breaking 70-0mph (feet):
Neon 178
Protege 184
Sentra 177
Impreza 189
Jetta 188
Roadholding 300-foot skidpad (g's):
Neon 0.82
Protege 0.86
Sentra 0.86
Impreza 0.79
Jetta 0.81
2.1 mile road course (lap time/mph):
Neon 1:28.16/85.8
Protege 1:28.41/85.5
Sentra 1:24.62/89.3
Impreza 1:30.37/83.7
Jetta 1:26.39/87.5
Emergency lane-change maneuver (mph):
Neon 53.6
Protege 58.6
Sentra 59.2
Impreza 55.1
Jetta 53.5
----Information----
Maximum test speed/gear (mph):
Neon 33, 58, 84, 117, 125
Protege 33, 60, 84, 114, 120
Sentra 29, 51, 79, 104, 128, 130
Impreza 31, 52, 74, 99, 125
Jetta 39, 66, 97, 124, 132
Curb weight (pounds):
Neon 2777
Protege 2804
Sentra 2861
Impreza 3037
Jetta 3071
Tires:
Neon Goodyear Eagle, P195/50TR-16
Protege Dunlop SP sport 9000, 205/45ZR-17
Sentra Continental ContiSport Contact, 215/45ZR-17
Impreza Bridgestone Potenza RE92, P205/55VR-16
Jetta Michelin HX MXM4, 225/45HR-17
Gear ratio (:1)
Neon 3.50, 1.95, 1.36, 0.97, 0.81
Protege 3.31, 1.84, 1.31, 0.97, 0.78
Sentra 3.42, 1.94, 1.26, 0.95, 0.77, 0.63
Impreza 3.45, 2.06, 1.45, 1.09, 0.78
Jetta 3.30, 1.94, 1.31, 1.03, 0.84
Axle ratio (:1):
Neon 3.94
Protege 4.11
Sentra 4.43
Impreza 4.11
Jetta 3.65
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Meade
The SVT Focus is also seriously tweaked and comes in around $18k. It has around 170hp.
I’m not trying to knock the MP3, it’s a cool car. But at that price, it REALLY needs more HP. That’s it’s only downfall.
There's still time to get your name on the list, everyone! If any of our fellow Edmunds members (or lurkers) are interested in coming to the picnic in Northern Virginia this Saturday, e-mail me at:
mdaffron@the-rma.org
ZOOM ZOOM ZOOM!!!
Meade
(yeah zoomzoomzoom)
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zeropost?cmd=reply&id=864883
CanuckPal
Topic Moderator
10:10 AM 10-3-2001
I just read the article. Here's a synopsis.
There were not many surprises, in terms of what they liked/didn't like. The rankings are a bit surprising though.
In fifth place, the bargain Neon R/T. It looks hot in red with black wheels (their test car had a $575 package that includes yellow letter tires, said black wheels, and some decals). Nonetheless, it came in under 18 grand, loaded with every option but the sunroof. It had the third best acceleration, grip, and lap times, and the second best braking distance. They liked the handling and mentioned that oversteer was readily available. What they didn't like was the NVH factor and balky shifter. They also mentioned a few ergonomic issues, such as placing the climate controls above the stereo, and the low-mounted in-dash CD changer. And of course, the interior materials were not up to par. Still, a lot of bang for the buck in this car.
Fourth was the Sentra SE-R Spec V. They really didn't like the shifter - "vague gates and awkward throws". They also complained that the rev limiter cut in just 100 rpm above the engine's peak power point. I realize this car has a big engine, but a 6100 rpm redline seems a bit low in this class. They complained that the engine/tranny combo required too much shifting. As expected, there were some negative comments about the interior color scheme, and the exterior styling didn't draw rave reviews either. But they loved the engine, and the SE-R was second in terms of acceleration. On the track, despite its rear beam axle, it was by far the fastest, almost 2 seconds ahead of the Jetta. They estimate the base price to be $17500 ($19500 as tested).
In third was the Jetta, in 180 hp 2002 model year trim. As expected, a lot of praise for the interior and the build quality. They also said it had a great ride. Despite its great engine (best acceleration in the test, lots of torque, etc) they said it was "posh not sporty". They also mentioned there was some torque steer and turbo lag. At $23500, the Jetta was the only car in the test that broke the $20k barrier, but it was loaded with the CD/cassette Monsoon system, sport luxury package, and leather package.
The Impreza 2.5RS placed second. It was second slowest, but 0-60 in 7.8 is fairly reasonable for a 165-hp 3000 lb AWD sedan. Grip and braking distances were worst of the group. On the racetrack, it was six seconds behind the Sentra and understeered too much. But its seats were best, the ergonomics got high marks, and the shifter and clutch were well liked. The fit and finish seemed "close to the Jetta". So while it wasn't the sportiest of the bunch, it was a very solid car.
And first place, the Protege MP3, despite its major power deficit. No surprise, it was slowest of the bunch, being the only car requiring more than 8 seconds 0-60. But it was best in terms of handling and was rated the most fun to drive. The ride was smooth, steering precise and communicative. They didn't like the MP3 audio system too much, and complained about the lack of cruise control, and a few tacky trim elements.
This just reaffirms what I think of the Protege - nothing wrong with it that an extra 40-50 hp wouldn't fix! I think Mazda should take the MP3 package, drop the fancy stereo, add cruise control, and make a sunroof and ABS optional. Oh, and strap on a turbo. That would be the perfect budget sports sedan.
I'd like to echo their thoughts on the MP3 audio system. From the dashboard photos I've seen, the Kenwood player looks like a tacky add-on to an otherwise custom dash. And the buttons look so small, it appears it would be hard to operate. Also, the colors of the Kenwood unit don't match the rest of the dash -- which make it stand out as the tacky add-on that it is. (Can you tell I don't like the MP3 player?)
And to name the WHOLE CAR after the audio system? What's next -- the Mazda Protege Rockford Fosgate Limited Edition? Hell, the first time I heard of the MP3, I thought Mazda was coming out with a limited-edition Protege hatchback or something -- you know, MP3 = Mazda Protege 3? Like Protege5 = 5-door Protege?
So I guess I'll call my car the "MPCD+". The "+" because I have a cassette player too.
Actually, I don't know if there will be a "next" MP3 -- the October issue of Car and Driver magazine says Mazda has no plans to continue the MP3 into the next model year. Oh -- and the Protege5 won't carry the "5" after 2002 according to them as well.
Meade
And don't knock the sound system! Believe me, even if you like Coltrane and Ella, it does wonders for your musical enjoyment!
---+---
The Protege MP3 is a trial balloon. Yes, it's the first production car with an MP3 player standard...that's the hook! It serves it's purpose by creating a buzz in the import tuning community (and getting more Protege stuff created and marketed) and gets Mazda a lot of ink. Every car magazine from R&T, Car & Driver to excellent second-tier mags like Grassroots Motorsports have written about and/or tested the car and the Pro5. Mazda never got that response on the LX or ES models. Sure, they might end up in a econobox round-up with the usual suspects, but never with stand-alone roadtests.
I would have never even thought of owning a Protege (didn't like the looks of the Gen 1 & 2 machines and didn't notice the Gen 3 until I saw the ad in Road & Track. It sold me on the car, since I was looking to create something close using either a PT Cruiser or a Honda. I got on the website, called the dealer the next day and Wantagh Mazda sold yet another MP3. I had been pondering what to buy for months, and since I couldn't find a loaded PT Cruiser with a 5 speed, knew that I'd have to look elsewhere. The other real plus is: everything is covered under warranty and the add-on stuff is all part of the purchase price (which as I mentioned before is a loss-leader considering the amount of stuff Racing Beat put in there). It could use a bit of extra horsepressure, but that gives the owner something to add!
The underlying philosophy (from BMW) is:
the serious driver never likes a cruise control.
check out the bimmers....they too do not come with a cruise control as standard....it's a add-on.
ABS is another unneeded option. I learned years ago to stop a car without just nailing the brakes. Added clutter and weight.
Cruise? I agree...what for?
How does it work on a manual car? On an Auto car, it can shift throu' gears and keep the speed on ups and downs. Manual??
Brakes: Same here. I always apply the brake halfway and then slowly push it in completely....releasing it slowly as the car slows down... Works great all the time....but needs lotsa practise..
But ABS is needed for the people who do not pay attention on the road...whether there is ice or oil spill on the road....THEY NEED ABS!!
I think not having cruise on the MP3 is a smart move. It's more a "road racer" than cruisemobile anyway. But mostly all performance cars do have ABS brakes. They should have put that on the MP3.
I used to drive my parents '91 MPV around in the winter for years without using ABS. Never had a problem. But I do believe that ABS is a good feature that is not just for people that are not paying attention on the road. Hell, if you think that's true, than why do you need 4 wheel disc brakes? To stop faster? Jeez...if you ARE paying attention, than why would you need to stop faster? <------intense sarcasm
Pro_fan
As for ABS, it would probably be good to have - my P5 doesn't have it, but then again I spend 9 months of the year in southern New Mexico and the summer 3 in Chicago so it doesn't see bad weather very often. It doesn't hurt to have ABS but for me right now, it's not something I need to have.
First, I guess I'm just plain old-fashioned when it comes to my dashboard. I like my factory CD stereo and cassette player. It matches everything, its lights dim with the dash dimmer control (maybe the Kenwood's does too, I don't know), and its display DOESN'T wash out in the sun. Hey, my opinion, OK? I'll respect yours too.
Sorry about the "real men don't use cruise control" argument, but if I'm paying for the top-of-the-line car, I want cruise control. I use mine a LOT. Oh, I have a 5-speed too. What difference does that make? I still do a lot of highway driving and cruise is wonderful. And how much weight does cruise control add, for pete's sake? Are you the type of guy who installs drilled aluminum pedals for the 8 ounces they'll save, but then adds two pounds worth of chain-link license plate frame and 80 pounds of needless amps and subwoofers in his trunk? Just asking.
BTW, my older brother just bought a brand-new BMW 5-series sedan, and it came with cruise standard -- and not just any old cruise control; this one has that sonar-sensing stuff that slows the car down if you get too close to another car with the cruise on. Funky stuff for a $60,000 car, eh?
I tend to agree with Chikoo on the ABS, but for another reason. My boss owned a 1988 Mazda 626 -- the one with 4-wheel steering. Remember that fad? His ABS light came on and stayed on back in 1995, and even though the car was only 7 years old, Mazda didn't stock the ABS unit for it anymore and would have to special-order it from the manufacturer. Guess the manufacturer's price? $2,200.00.
When it comes to ABS, EBFD and other newer-technology stuff, I admit that the new stuff is wonderful. It's amazing how they've been able to improve automobile safety and pleasure in recent years. But to agree with Chikoo, many of us "older" (wow, I'm the ripe old age of 36) types drove for years without any of this stuff, and we didn't kill ourselves. I traded in a car with ABS for a 2000 Protege that doesn't have ABS, for the simple reason that my fat body didn't leave me any headroom with the sunroof I had to purchase to get ABS. (I feel it was pathetically stupid of Mazda to only offer ABS as part of a package that included the sunroof on the 2000s.)
Yes, ABS is great. But buy the extended warranty; you'll need it if you plan to "drive your car into the ground." ABS parts are VERY expensive, even if your car hasn't been discontinued. Oh -- ABS adds quite a bit of weight to a car too -- quite a bit more than drilled aluminum pedals.
Here ya go -- I just took the liberty of calling my dealer's service department -- Whitten Brothers Mazda in Richmond, VA -- and got the price on the ABS hydraulic unit for a 2001 Protege. I must admit I almost had to pick myself up off the floor, guys. I'm not lying -- this is what the parts manager told me after looking it up. You ready? It's $1,500.00.
Meade the Relieved He Didn't Get ABS Now
I did have a 1994 Pont. Bonneville with 150K on it and beat to hell. Everything went on that car, but never the ABS brakes. So maybe they do last a long time.
That echos the thoughts in my head exactly. Of all the cars I've owned, only my last one, a '99 Passat, had ABS.
SInce I plan to drive this car forever, simple is better anyway.
My boss wound up trading the car as-is, but didn't get much for it since the dealership he traded it to knew, just like he found out, that the cost of the new ABS unit was more than the entire car was worth!
Meade
Meade
See all you fellow fanatics tomorrow, when it'll be MAPP-MINUS TWO DAYS AND COUNTING!!!
Meade the ZOOM-ZOOMER
ABS: Not that I am against it...but driving on a road that is not conducive to driving(icy roads)....NEVER.
So no ABS for me.
Also, not sure who brought this up, but I believe the reason that the MP3 does not have cruise, is because the placement of its strut tower bar would interfere with the standard ES cruise.
Now why it doesn't have a sunroof is anybody's guess. It would seem that this type of car would have one. Not that I miss it -- my last car had a sunroof that leaked. I ended up having to use several treatments of silicone to seal it shut.
Sporin: I was curious as to why you traded the Passat (a car that's in a higher class) for a P5. Why didn't you just keep the Passat and drive it forever?
The MP3 has no sunroof? That's a sporty aspect of a car one would think. It also takes away from the structural integrity a little bit though, so maybe that's why.
Add to that a burning desire to spend my "extra" money on other things. I wanted a solid, reliable, but FUN TO DRIVE car for around $17k. Bonus points if it was a wagon and Japanese!
The Pro5 was a perfect fit. :-)
VW's offerings at that price point are pathetic IMO. The 2.0 cars are dogs and the 1.8T cars are too expensive. Plus, 2 years of VW "service" was enough for me. They will need to make MAJOR strides in that area to get my business again.
There are a few things I miss about my Passat, but overall, I am extremely pleased with my Phiver!