Mazda Protegé

mazdafun

Mostly due to stop-and-go driving around here and my wife once mentioning she hated riding in M/T cars cause they made her car-sick (probably her overly-hormonalized boyfriends at the time). My next vehicle will be M/T since she won't ride in it most of the time and I CAN restrain myself when it's required.

Well, probably the only parts I don't like about the A/T are 1) robs some power, 2) shifts too quickly from 1 to 2 when pulling out of corners (I'd like to delay the shift a little later that the AT decides, even with O/D off, which does delay shifts a bit). Other than that, I love the fact I don't have to dance a ditty every time I drive through stop-and-go traffic. And the Pro's AT is usually pretty good (there is that hard stumble when stomping on the accelerator just after a short stop...I've learned how to avoid it).

mazdafun

I hope your ankle recovers soon.

chicagopro

AT for me...haven't a clue about manual.

meinrad

all the way. Dale, we need to teach you the fun of driving a manual transmission with a cheeseburger in one hand and large coke in the other. Now that's multi-tasking!

snagy1

i'm at 15 K right now on my 01 LX 2.0 , manual says oil change,filter and tire rotation. (dealer agrees), anything else you guys are recommend would be great. thanks

newcar31

I don't know how to drive automatic.

RE 15,000 mile checkup

I did my spark plugs at 15,000 also. They looked kinda nasty when I took them out, so I guess it was a good idea. Cost me less than $10 bucks, so why not?

protege_fan

Even WITH my sprained ankle I love driving manual. It's my clutch ankle too

Mazdafun: Thanks for the tip. Does anybody know how I can clean behind the vents without taking the car apart??

chicagopro

ha...ha...ha...

Hey, you have to admit, it's been a while since I've done anything stupid to my car. Maybe(????) I'm getting the hang of this ownership thing.

rbrooks3

02 ES Sunlight Silver. Looking fine, but still scratching the heck out of my knuckles reaching through the wheel spokes to clean off the large inner portion of those lovely rims.

Going to paint the calipers shortly. Seriously considering the factory sport exhaust. I'm having a hrd time finding one installed. I want to hear it before I buy it. It won't do much for performance. I'm just buying it for a better sound.

dsm6

My one complaint about the car was a lack of power, so I figured why lose even more power and lose a gear with which to optimize that power, and pay more for the privilege of doing so, all for the sake of convenience. I'm in the car to drive it, not just guide it along (while eating, drinking, talking on the cell phone, etc.), so why not do it right. ;-)

the_big_h

and now I'm having automatic remorse (if such thing existed). When I bought the car I didn't know how to drive a manual and couldn't care much for it. But as I become more and more interested in cars and driving in general, I realized I'm missing a WHOLE CHUNK in the full driving experience/skills, and it shows up even more clearly when I'm on the autocross track. Should've paid that extra $100 to learn manual back in driving school :-(

what should I do???

seminole_kev

well you could always replace the auto with a manual unit, but any time I've seen this done, it's a ROYAL pain in the rear. If you've got the technical know how, and more importantly time and patience, it can be done.

dsm6

Got a friend with a manual who will teach you? Practice by testing out that 6-speed Acura CL Type S you've been eyeing. The Acura dealers I've met let their potential customers test drive on their own, so you can go ruin the dealer's clutch without any interruptions. ;-)

the_big_h

because if it's gonna cost more than 1/3 of the car's actual value (around 10k right now), it's not really worth it....

Testing out (or learning) manual on a new CL-S 6 speed? LOL I don't want to be a jerk and ruin a clutch on a new car

newcar31

No offense to anyone who has an auto, but I don't know why anyone would want an automatic in this kind of car unless they physically could not drive manual. The main gripe seems to be driving in traffic. I drive in traffic all the time and it doesn't bother me because I don't even realize that I'm shifting. For me, clutch work has become a sub-conscience thing.

alternator

I am thoroughly convinced that with AT I can lift my right foot and simultaneously apply brakes with my left foot -- fractionally quicker than with MT where I had to lift right foot, move right foot to brakes, and then apply brakes.

Also, I would rather have both hands on the steering wheel in an emergency, not grabbing for another gear manually.

I suppose I'd better don fire-proof clothing now?

newcar31

Even if that were true for me, it wouldn't keep me from buying a manual. Besides, they told you NOT to do that in drivers ed.

alternator

Not to do what?

protege_fan

the_big_h

I tried it couple times, it does keeps the engine revs up and lets you get back onto the throttle faster in slow turns.

but to have an automatic just so you can do left foot braking? I think I'll learn heel-to-toe downshift instead, more fun!

chicagopro

...was taught that left-foot braking was a big no-no.

Not a flame, alternator, just what I was taught.

alternator

ALL THAT AT EXPERIENCE COMES IN! OVER A MILLION MILES DRIVEN WITHOUT AN ACCIDENT. OK?

I'm going to lunch now, but will gladly respond later to further barbs. Ha! I hope someone is on my side.

newcar31

is only good for brake-stands. Of course, you can't do a brake-stand in the Pro unless you use the e-brake.

protege_fan

No need to yell. Just saying what we were taught. I find that manuals afford you much greater control over the vehicle and that's why I like them.

dsm6

doesn't typically lead to accidents (though I suppose if you flub it big time, it might). It typically does lead to excessive brake wear. Of course, if you are good at timing it just right, it won't really. To each his or her own.

If you had to make a panic stop in a car with a manual, you could left foot brake if you thought that might give you an edge - thus saving that split second, and just letting the car stall. In normal driving, you wouldn't need that extra split second, so wouldn't need to left foot brake and could come to a stop with the right foot on the brake, the left operating the clutch. Just a thought.

seminole_kev

if you found a wrecked manual Pro at a salvage yard, you could get all the clutch pedal, shifter, shift linkage crap for pretty cheap. The big thing would be if you could find a tranny shop that would take your automatic as a trade towards a manual box. Other than that, you may need a new computer model for the engine (ECU or whatever the hell it's called nowadays). I'm not sure if a modern car's computer (or chip depending on how it's setup) would be different between an auto and a manual. The pass through for the clutch pedal will probably be plugged by either a metal section that would be need to be cut or punched out, or it could possibly be a rubber/plastic section (doubt it, but I haven't looked under the carpet of a car in a long time).

protege_fan

Weren't you looking around at getting a "beater" manual car?

the_big_h

that's the other (probably more sensible) option that I'm looking right now. Been searching for an early 90s Nissan 240SX (rwd, manual) on autotrader. Haven't found a good match yet :-(

mazdafun

If you don't want to remove the vents to clean behind them.

There are small, battery-operated vacuums that come with a gooseneck attachement that might sneak between the blades in the vent.

I think you can also buy attachments for a can vac. You can get serious suction when you neck down the orifice like that. Watch you don't overload the motor though.

You could also make your own attachment. Depends on what it's worth to you.

And if suctioning the dirt off doesn't work, you could always use your vacuum to blow air instead of suctioning air to blast the dust off.

dsm6

You'd also have to plumb a line from the brake fluid reservoir to lubricate the clutch. I'd bet you'd have to get a new PCM. I'd bet shifting of the auto is full, or at least semi, electronic - don't know for sure 'cause I don't own one. I suppose you might be able to just let it be anyway, and just put up with the SES light coming on all the time - again, don't know for sure.

Sounds pretty kludgey to me. I'd stick with the beater manual, or better yet find a good friend with a manual who will teach you and let you practice until you get pretty good at it. That might not take as long as you think. Manuals these days, with their fancy sychros and relatively smooth shifters/clutches, are getting pretty easy to use IMO. There will be some intitial pain to learn, sure -stalling, bucking, etc., but it will pass quickly enough.

seminole_kev

just getting a beater manual is a much better way of doing it. Some people like the challange though. Not me, too lazy!

newcar31

is simply not worth it. Too much hassle. Too many things could be botched during the work anyway.

maltb

Don't bother thinking about a retrofit. However, you might want to consider looking for a manual Protege. Theoretically, it will only cost you sales tax and DMV fees if you can find what you want.

On the track, having a manual makes ALL the difference in the world. Not just for power, but having stability and immediate response out of a turn. You can achieve some of this with left foot braking, but the converter slips too much to get that launch out of the bends.

rbrooks3

While I drive a manual, if you have an automatic and practice at it, left foot braking is quickest. There is not a single F1 driver left now that right foot brakes. The upshifts on most teams are now fully automatic with only the lower teams using the manual paddles all the time. Most CART drivers left foot brake as well.

When driving the wife's MPV, I've tried it, but I'm so used to right foot braking I don't have near the sense of feel and control with my left foot. I have no idea how long it would take to get as good braking using my left foot as I do now with my right.

the_big_h

"However, you might want to consider looking for a manual Protege. Theoretically, it will only cost you sales tax and DMV fees if you can find what you want."

what do you mean, are you suggesting trading in for a manual? doesn't trading in will cost me more than just tax and DMV fees (aka vocus syndrome)? Please explain further!

vocus

Considering Proteges don't seem to be worth crap after you drive them off the lot, it might not be the smartest thing to do. Also, the 1.8 has a more free-revving nature than the 2.0 in the ES now.

number42

I drive an A/T. Truthfully, I only got my license at the old age of 31, and never learned Manual. That being said, For Driving in NYC, A/T is the easiest way to go.

dsm6

Before anyone goes down that road, don't even think of comparing the automatic in the Pro (or just about any production car) to the gearboxes used in F1 that free up F1 drivers' left feet to operate the brake instead of a clutch. Same goes for comparing the F1 gearboxes (an automatically shifted/lever shifted manual) to the recent trend of manually shifted automatics (eg., the new Pro sport shift auto).

I would also caution anyone from comparing the skill of an F1 driver to their own.

Well, except for me, of course. ;-)

maltb

Hank, I was thinking private party. You sell yours in the paper and try to find one the same way. That way you don't lose in the exchange.

Rbrooks, F1 cannot be compared to an auto in any street legal vehicle. Not only do the cars have more power than they can handle, the transmission does not use a torque converter but rather an automatic clutch; a HUGE difference.

When they make a true manumatic, I will humbly relinquish my rights to left leg flexors.

maltb

newcar31

Ferrari already makes these in production cars. I believe you can get one in Toyota's new MR2 also.

implicit

I paid about $17,400 (including Freight, tags and tax) for a 2002 Protege ES Auto with just about every option. Was that a good deal or did I get jipped? I think it was a good price because total including all fees and taxes was below TMV. The car is awesome though and looks like it's worth alot more. What do you all think?

vocus

I never learned to drive a stick shifter either, and I got my license at age 19. I am 23 now, and still have no desire to drive a true manual. I like my Tiptronic just fine. When I get stuck in traffic or wanna use the cell phone while driving (with headset, of course), I can leave it in auto mode. When I wanna rev the engine and have some fun, I click it over into manual mode. While it's not a true manual, it's still enough for me.

The manual function does hold the engine speed longer than the true automatic way does though, I noticed this when flooring the accelerator from a takeoff. So it does have some advantage over leaving it in true auto mode.

dsm6

I'm certain you know of the Ferrari F1 style gearbox, and the BMW SMG gearbox, which are both true manumatics. Those are way out of my reach.

I find it encouraging, though, that Toyota has put a true manumatic on the MR2 Spyder, a car that I can actually afford. If it catches on, maybe they'll put it on other, more practical, cars.

vocus

What do you mean by "every option"? I paid $17,141 for a 2001 ES (about the same price as the 2002, because I paid for $700 for the sunroof then and it's $300 now). I had Premium Pkg., automatic, and cassette player, but that was it. No CD changer, cargo net, alarm, or roof deflector.

You might have been able to get a better deal, but you can't change that now. Just enjoy the car!

vocus

The only thing that makes no sense about the MR2 tranny is that you flick the stick back to upshift, and up to downshift. That makes no sense, is opposite to convention, and also opposite of the way my Tiptronic works. Hope the Protege's "sport" automatic is not this way, but don't know yet. Have not seen one yet.

maltb

Normally we don't talk tax and tags as that varies greatly from state to state. However, it looks like you did well assuming your state has sales tax.

Congrats on your new Pro!

dsm6

like the Tiptronic still have those pesky (or nifty, depending upon your view point) torque converters. Plus, for the manually shifted automatics I've tested (vw, honda, chrysler), the tranny takes too long to respond to requests for shifts, IMO.

maltb

the trans has to think about your request before it responds. DON'T second guess my request! hehehe

I didn't know the MR2 offered that option. Me thinks me needs a test drive.

the_big_h

sounds like a reasonable price, if you bought it FULLY loaded. Any rebates added to that total? Or is there any rebates right now?