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Comments
Of course, here in sunny San Diego, I could go with performance tires and not have to worry. I have heard nothing but good things about the Michelin XGT's and I used to run Michelin X series tires on my MG and Escort GT when I had them. Outstanding tires! Sure, they offer a bit less handling than the performance tires. However, you may be able to retain your handling by going with a set of 205/50's rather than the OEM 195/55's. The Nitto's I have on my Pro now are 205/50's. They not only look better, but they give you great handling. The only downfall is a slight decrease in fuel mileage due to their extra resistance from being wider.
Good Luck!!
Larry, there are other tires out there that are just as good.
Check out the Yokohama AVID T4s on the Tire Rack web site. (They come up when you enter our cars too.) Check out all the links on them, and then check out user comments. Then check the price. I had a set of Yokohamas on another car I owned and they were excellent tires. They may not come with their own little baby seat in them so babies can scoot around naked in the rain in them, but you won't get taken to the cleaners either.
Here guys ... let's come down from Media Land and enter the real world. Read this:
http://www.consumerreports.org/main/detail.jsp?CONTENT%3C%3Ecnt_id=18707&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=18151
Funny, in the category "all-season car tires," the Michelin tire was the most expensive (re, go figure), cost damn near twice the price of the Yokohama, and the Yokohama equalled or beat the Michelin in all categories tested. So did a Pirelli and a BF Goodrich. And the Yoko did better in rain and snow than the Michelin that was DESIGNED as a wet-weather tire (hence the name "Rainforce" --- ooooohhh! What a cool name! I'll bet some Michelin Marketing Department guy or gal got a day's comp time for that one!)
Larry, we're friends. Would I steer you wrong? Don't waste your money on another piece of rubber and steel that's been overinflated (yes, pun INTENDED!) by a hyped-up marketing campaign.
Signed,
Meade
Occupation: Marketing & PR Manager
"Because so much is riding in my wallet."
2001 Mazda Protege ES, 5-speed, Silver, with moonroof. The only option it has is the floor mats. The price (after all the rebates and S-plan stuff) is $13,450 + TTL. We will also take the 4.9% for 60 months and no payments for half a year. The best deal I've found in small sporty sedans!
As for the review at consumerreports - I would take it with a big chunk of salt! I know for a fact that the Bridgestone BT70s is IDENTICAL to the Firestone FT70C. Why, then, does their test show a large discrepancy?
And the tire equivalent of the Pirellis, and the Firestones that they tested is NOT the Michelin Rainforce, but the X series (XGT, X-One/XH4 - which I bought). These would, though, be even more expensive! (Don't know about the 15 and 16 inch prices, but the 175-70-13s for my 95 DX cost 65 each, including free everything (mounting, balancing, valves, stems, caps etc). These handle quite well on sharp corners, and in all kinds of weather - I've driven them in snow and rain, and I'm more than satisfied with their handling characteristics in both conditions. I love the road feel when i drive to the ski areas in winter - winding, steep mountain roads, with all my passengers white-knuckled!. If price were a major consideration (as it surely is when you replace 8 tires ProX2!), if I had to chose again, I might go with Yokohama Avid T4s, but even these cannot match the handling and warranty the Michelins have. Mine - the XH4, now replaced by the X-One - have a 70K mile, 580 treadwear, AA rating, and with less than 10K miles on them, two summers and a snowy winter later, I cannot tell them from new! And I do drive my car quite aggressively on corners and have taken it on a lot of bad, rouch and unpaved roads in many National Parks and even driven it up Pike's Peak in Colorado! (Not recommended - it tore both CV Joint boots, and its almost the same price to replace the joints, so that's what I had to do at a cost of $300!)
As for color - I'd go with white. I'm biased because I have a white car myself. White is the rarest Protege color, and one of the easiest to keep clean. Makes the car appear a bit larger than a darker color. But I do have to agree that when waxed, it does not look nearly as good as metallic or darker colors! As for being common, I doubt its any more common than silver! And statistically, your chances of being pulled over for speeding, are the lowest (from what I hear). (That, though, hasn't stoppped me from being pulled over twise, and ticketed once - so this may not be too true, or maybe I just got unlucky!)
Fur the person (Ru.....) picking between the Sentra, Civic and Pro - first of all, eliminate the Sentra! No back seat room, unpolished feel, bad finish quality, butt-ugly rear-end (but I repeat myself!).
A friend of mine is now vacillating between A Civix EX and Pro ES. She does not drive aggressively at all, and may own the car for only 2-3 years, and is (so far) sold on the higher mileage. I honestly feel the Civic is the best bet for her. But if you plan to keep it longer, appreciate available power (city or highway) when you need it and enjoy the driving experience, there is no question that the Protege is the car to go with! Of course, i' comparing the VTEC 1.7 liter engine-equipped Civic EX. I hear the LX non-VTEC engine is even noisier at high revs (if that's possible). As for interior build quality, I think these two ranges of cars are on par, although the interior cubbyholes and storage spaces in the Civic are better laid out IMHO. For myself, between these two cars (or the LX 2.0 and the Civic LX, for that matter), there's no question I'd pick the Mazda Protege! Hope this helps.
-Terry
I may get the wheels for autocross use anyway, since I don't want to ruin the RacingHart 17" wheels that come with it.
Anyway, I've yet to lose traction in the wet when taking corners or accelerating hard (as hard as 92lb-ft of torque can get you), whereas I constantly hear and feel my Firestone FR6802s slipping in the wet all the time. The FR680s have poor grip in even light snow. I tip-toe during the winters here (considering Blizzaks so I don't have to drag along my tire cables).
The X-Ones are pretty good for all-around work. They're decent in light snow, but if you get lots of snow or get ice, I'd spring for a set of dedicated winter tires. While I haven't yet gotten the the half-way mark, what I hear is that many of the water-wicking sipes in the tread pattern wear away, which makes the tires perform about par with most all-season tires in the wet. Still, the treadwear rating is something ridiculously high (700, I think); they'll probably outlast my '89 323.
Just so you know, I'm considering the Michelin X-One, Yokohama AVID T4, Bridgestone RE910, Goodyear Aquatred 3 to replace my Firestone FR680 tires. I'm looking for all-season, light-snow tires that are somewhat of a cross between touring and performance tires.
If you're looking for higher performance, I'd consider Michelin Pilots, Yokohama H4 or Z4, the Kumho Ecsta (sp?), Dunlop SP4000 and others of this type. However, they all suffer in even light snow cover, so I'd also plan on getting a set of snow tires. Most are also unidirectional designs, so you shouldn't rotate them from one side of your car to the other.
Tire Rack is a good source of owner's responses. Look for ones with large numbers of owners responses (individual variability has less effect on the ratings then). You can pull up tables that summarize by type of tire (touring, performance etc).
BTW, the Firestone FT70c and Bridgestone BT70 do have quite different tread patterns. All else being equal (materials, number and construction of nylon and steel belts etc.), the tread pattern can make quite a difference in performance, thus explaining the CR results. IMO, CR is a very good source of info on most items (they may be off when they're evaluating products in a field they just started in...I didn't entirely agree with their judgements when they first started testing computers, for example).
Meade, the Yoko's seem like nice tires, however I need "ALL-SEASON" tires. We get about 4 or 5 snow storms in Southeastern PA. every winter. You get that awesome Southern weather, lol!
Meade, did you look at the Dunlap SP SPORT W-10's at $70.00 a tire or the Pirelli P6000's at $83.00 a tire. They also received good reviews and ratings. The Pro's: better performance than the Yoko's. The Con's: Not as good tread life as the Yoko's. I got to get back to work. :-) Talk to ya Monday, Meade.
Respectfully,
Larry
Respectfully,
Larry
Pro x two
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/avid_rd.htm
Meade
(Actually, my wife is the one that just graduated from Nursing School, so we are buying it in her name to qualify for the extra incentives.)
Thank you, honey!!
I'm tempted to wait around for Nissan's new SE-R which is coming later this year, but the pricing on the Protege ES is too good to pass up. Just call me an opportunist.
I am running a 2001 LX 2.0L engine with a 4 speed auto transmission.
I have noticed that when cruising at 70 MPH the tach
reads 3,000 RPM which seems about 800 RPM higher than
other cars that I have used and taken notice of the RPM's
at this speed.
The vehicle seems to hit the shift points just fine.
Just wondering if anyone else is turning these RMP's at speed?
Larry: What is the position? And thank you for the
votes.
fowler3
Sean's now 2 months old and he's already tipping the scales at 15 pounds. (Go figure, look at his dad.) The family will be taking a four-hour trip to North Carolina's Outer Banks in September, and I think Sean will do fine. He already enjoys his time (er, "sleeps") in local trips in the Protege, so I would think he'll be a real "pro" at it by September.
So I've been thinking ...
How about MAPP2 on a nice fall Saturday, say maybe October? It'll be cooler, and if we happened to do it where we did it last year, the scenery will be beautiful.
(For all you newcomers, "MAPP" stands for "Mid-Atlantic Protege Picnic." We held our first one last September at a state park in the mountains of Northern Virginia. We had -- how many was it, guys -- 9 folks in 5 Proteges? It was nice to meet Larry (protegextwo) and his family, Paul (vocus) and his friend, and a couple other guys.
Of course, we don't have to do the second one at the same place. This was just a quick thought I had.
Anybody up for a little reunion? I for one wouldn't mind seeing Paul's piecajunk 2001 ES (just having a little fun there, Paul). And seeing everybody's cars about 20K later might be interesting! We can have a "who's got the biggest ding?" contest. (Ooooh, changing one letter in that last word would change the meaning of THAT sentence SIGNIFICANTLY -- but I won't go there!)
What say everybody? Up for a Zoom?
Meade
They are cheap at $63 apiece at tirerack.
Not only that, take a look at this survey:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/kumho/ku_712.jsp#Survey
by end of this year, i plan to change and would certainly go for the Kumho 205/55VR15 , one size bigger. I think the wheel well in the ES is big enough to accomodate the extra inches in the width and the diameter which are
7.9" -> 8.4"
23.4" -> 23.9"
Larry, do check them out and don't be carried away "that anything Korean is crap".
Been there, done that. But I'm leaning toward Yokohama AVID T4s from TireRack now. I've had personal experience (not marketing brainwashing) with, er, let's see now ... Yokohama, Toyo, Michelin (yes, everybody, BY-GOD MICHELIN, Bridgestone, Kelly, Firestone, Pirelli and Goodyear. Oh, and Dunlop motorcycle tires.
Meade
And I will give you pieca junk!
Geesh. Can't please some people .... how does that go? I'm outta here for the weekend. Y'all have a good weekend!
Meade
Geez Meade, it was only a suggestion. It was a long drive for me and Larry as well, but to me it was well worth the drive. Beautiful scenery out in the country and a great time had by all.
As far as service goes, I replaced the air filter at 30K, spark plugs at 30K and had the automatic transmission fluid flushed at 35K. I have the oil changed every 5K (regular dino oil) and the tires rotated every second oil change (10K).
Tires-New tires will be upcoming shortly. Not because of wear, because I hit a monster pothole going over train tracks today and must have busted a cord in the Potenzas, because now there is a bulge in the sidewall of the left front tire. For everyone dogging the Potenzas, I have 50K miles on the original set with 4/32" tread depth left. They show excellent wear and I have had no problems with wet roads or tire squeal.
I probably could have gotten 10K more miles out of these tires.............
Observations-
1. The lower lumbar area of the drivers seat sucks. I have tried nearly every position of the seat and couldn't find a comfortable position. I am in an out of the car 15 times a day, so I don't sit for too long at any one time.
2. The door lock knobs are in the wrong place. My arm is supposed to go right there on the top of the door panel with the windows down, but the lock knob pokes me in the arm. Could have found a better position for them.
3. Air Conditioner- Awesome, cold, cold, cold. Never had any problems whatsoever.
4. Body-I have a few small rock chips in the hood (already touched up nicely). Very well built car, no squeaks, rattles, or vibrations.
5. Radio-Performs great for how I use it. 7 bars is plenty loud with windows down and moonroof open. No skips or malfunctions with the CD player.
6. Interior-very roomy and well thought out. I like the storage area under the radio in the 2000 ES. I have only had someone in the backseat twice, so I can't give any opinions in that area. The trunk is more than adequate. I have it stuffed with sales information and merchandise.
7. This car definately needs fully functioning delay wipers and not just intermittent delay. Needs a truck release on the keyless entry pad. The horn sounds dorky (sounds like a clown horn). More lower lumbar support in drivers seat.
Overall, I think the 2000 Mazda Protege ES is great. I have no regrets in buying this car and the Silver Metalic paint is very good. It doesn't show dirt too bad and looks wonderful when washed and waxed. Sorry I wrote a book.
It was darn near perfect.
Door lock knobs..Agree
Full delay wipers..Agree. Had 'em on last car.
Clown horn, dorky sounding..you've got it right.
Know anyplace that sells aftermarket horns?
I appreciate the info. I got an '01 ES on June 5 and its always good to hear the Pro and the Con from other owners. Dennis MI
Did you see my question to you in post 4798?
Meade
My wife's '00 ES came originally with V rated Potenza's which, as I noticed after the VERY FIRST snow day were sliding a little bit better than Avalanche's goalie skates :-) I started shopping around and noticed that if I want to stay with the original size I'd have to get something that would run me over $100.00 per tire + labor. I really didn't feel like paying that much for a set of tires and looked at the alternative sizes. Well, I ended up getting a set of Winter King M&S 195/60R-15. It might have affected speedometer reading, but neither me nor any of the cops around notice anything.
Winter King's, as I've been told in different places (Discount Tire, Big-O tire), are Michelin's off-brand. They run for only $53 per tire + labor. Plus I paid $10 per tire to stud them - I really do believe in studs :-) Well, let me tell you this: these were the best winter tires I've ever had. We put these tires on 4 vehicles in our family and when I looked at them last week getting ready to put them on again they were still in perfect condition with virtually all studs still in place. I suggested these tires to my friend last winter as well and he was VERY happy with them and is going to put them on this winter again (he also studded them).
I don't think they are available from any (or at least most of) on-line retailers, but they are available from Discount Tires stores around the country.
I agree about the lack of lumbar support, it's a pain in the kidneys most of the time. Those othopedic guys should be sent into excile in Patagonia.
I'm having a pad made to help in my Pro. A trim shop is going to cut a 2 inch piece of medium density foam with the thickest part (lumbar area) at the top and taper it down to the seat cushion.
I'll try the bare fosm for a couple days to see if it needs re-shaping or trimming, then the trim shop will make a cover for it using car upholstery fabric.
If it works I'll e-mail photos to one of you for posting. I don't have a web site.
The problem I found with Honda Accord seats is the seat cushion is too thin where it meets the bottom of the backrest cushion. There is practically no padding there. And the foam in the seat is like cement. You can't even make a dent in it pressing with your thumb.
fowler3
"The Pirelli P400 Touring, $49--an all-season tire, despite its "touring" name--continues to top that category in our tests. Its excellent wet and dry braking, resistance to hydroplaning, and emergency handling make it a strong choice for most driving conditions. If your driving includes ice and snow, you're likely to prefer the Yokohama Aegis LS4, $43, or BFGoodrich Control T/A M65, $51. Both showed fine all-season balance, with notably better performance on ice and snow. The ninth-place Goodyear Regatta 2, $57, is a valid all-season choice where winters are long and severe.
"
Though I only have 25K on my 2000 ES, I just wonder what kind of all season tire will suit the ES best? Any comment.
BTW,, I usually have tire rotation every 10K. Do I have to do balance everytime? Thanks
Dong
That's Mazda's new tag-line for the 2001 Protege. The commercial starts out with a Miata spinning out at high speeds in the desert. Then, it goes to Miata driving enthusiastically down a windy road. Appearing from no where, a silver Protege ES appears and chases the Miata down this long windy road trying to pass it. Then, of course, the camera moves away and there's the "Zoom Zoom" boy.
In my opinion, it was a terrific commercial!!! Finally, Mazda is advertising the zoom zoom of the Protege!! It's about time!
We have an awesome group of regulars here. IMHO, we make this club a fun and informative place to talk cars in general and Protege's specifically. I'm sure Paul, Todd, Jerry, Meade, Vic, maltb, mazdafun, djmax, my-self and the other regulars here will help fulfill Edmunds Town hall tenants of an active, upbeat, informative, and FUN Owners Club! Fowler "you the man"! Please, accept our nomination.
Respectfully,
Larry
Two great reasons to come: 1) put some faces with the names around here 2) a good excuse to do some ZOOM ZOOMing long distance. (She only has 600 miles!
NEWPRO4ME: excellent 50K recap. Thanks.
And thank you for your confidence and votes.
fowler3
About tires: the three times I bought tires for cars, so long ago I hardly remember it, I bought Goodyear in the '60's, Firestone and Pirelli in the 70's. The Perellis were P3's bought because they were much quieter than Michelins, good on wet surfaces,especially ice. But not good in snow.
Correction: I had the dealer replace the Continentals on a new Audi Fox with Pirelli P3's in 1977. The Continentals were extremely noisy.
I've been trying to find out which Pirelli tire replaced the P3 series, but that doesn't mean it will be equally good. Tires, like cars, gain or lose something with each model change. That is why it is so diffult to recommend tires and, because the other person's drivng style may not get the
same results or road feel.
Usually, I traded before the tires needed replacement. Or something happened to a car forcing a new one, such as being totaled in a wreck (96 Accord had 52K on it).
fowler3