In your particular situation, I would go with the Michelin all-season tires. Sure, they come with a pretty hefty price but there's nothing better out there. The Michelins I wanted for my Pro are the Pilot series and were close to $190 per tire! I couldn't afford them then so I went with the Nitto NT450 at $80 each. I have been pleased with the Nitto's, although the Michelins would have been better... but either tire is better than those awful Potenza things.
Of course, here in sunny San Diego, I could go with performance tires and not have to worry. I have heard nothing but good things about the Michelin XGT's and I used to run Michelin X series tires on my MG and Escort GT when I had them. Outstanding tires! Sure, they offer a bit less handling than the performance tires. However, you may be able to retain your handling by going with a set of 205/50's rather than the OEM 195/55's. The Nitto's I have on my Pro now are 205/50's. They not only look better, but they give you great handling. The only downfall is a slight decrease in fuel mileage due to their extra resistance from being wider.
with Jerry, you could go with the 205-50-15s and get the Michelin XGT-H4 for about $20/tire less. If you have a local Costco or Sam's Club, check and see what they have on the shelf. Most tire shops can't touch their prices.
I have Dunlops on my 2001 Protege ES, and they seem to have pretty good traction in rain and all. Of course, the 2001 ESs have 16-inch tires too, so they might not be available in the 15" size. It's worth a shot though. I think they are SP9000s if I am not mistaken.
The tires on the 2001 ES are Dunlop SP 5000s. They are excellent tires for the rain, however, they stunk big time here in MN during Febraury and March. I know it is a lot of money, but I am going to get snow tires. I had a buddy who had the Bridgestone Blizzaks and those things were amazing. They had excellent traction in the snow and were surprisingly grippy even in ice. I think for me, the added cost of snow tires is worth not crashing. Anytime you get a high performance all season tire, both the high performance, and the all season performance are going to be compromised. I think I will just get a set of 15 inch steel wheels (can be had for little $$) with Blizzak snow tires so I can change the tires myself and save the remount/balance charges from a tire shop. When it comes time to replace the SP 5000s, I will be able to replace them with dedicated ultra high performance tires in 205/50/16 size.
Funny how an aggressive marketing campaign can make people believe Michelins are the greatest thing since the Lord said, "Let there be light." That's what they pay us Marketing folks the big bucks for.
Larry, there are other tires out there that are just as good.
Check out the Yokohama AVID T4s on the Tire Rack web site. (They come up when you enter our cars too.) Check out all the links on them, and then check out user comments. Then check the price. I had a set of Yokohamas on another car I owned and they were excellent tires. They may not come with their own little baby seat in them so babies can scoot around naked in the rain in them, but you won't get taken to the cleaners either.
Here guys ... let's come down from Media Land and enter the real world. Read this:
Funny, in the category "all-season car tires," the Michelin tire was the most expensive (re, go figure), cost damn near twice the price of the Yokohama, and the Yokohama equalled or beat the Michelin in all categories tested. So did a Pirelli and a BF Goodrich. And the Yoko did better in rain and snow than the Michelin that was DESIGNED as a wet-weather tire (hence the name "Rainforce" --- ooooohhh! What a cool name! I'll bet some Michelin Marketing Department guy or gal got a day's comp time for that one!)
Larry, we're friends. Would I steer you wrong? Don't waste your money on another piece of rubber and steel that's been overinflated (yes, pun INTENDED!) by a hyped-up marketing campaign.
I was leaning towards the Silver color over the White. Thanks for everyone who helped strengthen my resolve. Looking forward to making the purchase this Saturday.
2001 Mazda Protege ES, 5-speed, Silver, with moonroof. The only option it has is the floor mats. The price (after all the rebates and S-plan stuff) is $13,450 + TTL. We will also take the 4.9% for 60 months and no payments for half a year. The best deal I've found in small sporty sedans!
As for the review at consumerreports - I would take it with a big chunk of salt! I know for a fact that the Bridgestone BT70s is IDENTICAL to the Firestone FT70C. Why, then, does their test show a large discrepancy?
And the tire equivalent of the Pirellis, and the Firestones that they tested is NOT the Michelin Rainforce, but the X series (XGT, X-One/XH4 - which I bought). These would, though, be even more expensive! (Don't know about the 15 and 16 inch prices, but the 175-70-13s for my 95 DX cost 65 each, including free everything (mounting, balancing, valves, stems, caps etc). These handle quite well on sharp corners, and in all kinds of weather - I've driven them in snow and rain, and I'm more than satisfied with their handling characteristics in both conditions. I love the road feel when i drive to the ski areas in winter - winding, steep mountain roads, with all my passengers white-knuckled!. If price were a major consideration (as it surely is when you replace 8 tires ProX2!), if I had to chose again, I might go with Yokohama Avid T4s, but even these cannot match the handling and warranty the Michelins have. Mine - the XH4, now replaced by the X-One - have a 70K mile, 580 treadwear, AA rating, and with less than 10K miles on them, two summers and a snowy winter later, I cannot tell them from new! And I do drive my car quite aggressively on corners and have taken it on a lot of bad, rouch and unpaved roads in many National Parks and even driven it up Pike's Peak in Colorado! (Not recommended - it tore both CV Joint boots, and its almost the same price to replace the joints, so that's what I had to do at a cost of $300!)
As for color - I'd go with white. I'm biased because I have a white car myself. White is the rarest Protege color, and one of the easiest to keep clean. Makes the car appear a bit larger than a darker color. But I do have to agree that when waxed, it does not look nearly as good as metallic or darker colors! As for being common, I doubt its any more common than silver! And statistically, your chances of being pulled over for speeding, are the lowest (from what I hear). (That, though, hasn't stoppped me from being pulled over twise, and ticketed once - so this may not be too true, or maybe I just got unlucky!)
Fur the person (Ru.....) picking between the Sentra, Civic and Pro - first of all, eliminate the Sentra! No back seat room, unpolished feel, bad finish quality, butt-ugly rear-end (but I repeat myself!). A friend of mine is now vacillating between A Civix EX and Pro ES. She does not drive aggressively at all, and may own the car for only 2-3 years, and is (so far) sold on the higher mileage. I honestly feel the Civic is the best bet for her. But if you plan to keep it longer, appreciate available power (city or highway) when you need it and enjoy the driving experience, there is no question that the Protege is the car to go with! Of course, i' comparing the VTEC 1.7 liter engine-equipped Civic EX. I hear the LX non-VTEC engine is even noisier at high revs (if that's possible). As for interior build quality, I think these two ranges of cars are on par, although the interior cubbyholes and storage spaces in the Civic are better laid out IMHO. For myself, between these two cars (or the LX 2.0 and the Civic LX, for that matter), there's no question I'd pick the Mazda Protege! Hope this helps.
Thanks for posting your experience with the Dunlop SP 5000's on snow and ice covered Minnesota roads. My P5 came with the same rims and tires as your ES and I was prepared to try the Dunlops come winter, but with your info, ...forget it! My backup plan was going to be exactly what you mentioned, Blizzaks on a set of some cheap steel rims. Where were you planning on ordering your set from?
Did I read this right? $13,450 for an ES 2001 stick shift? That's about $2K under what most of us paid two months ago with the added option of an auto tranny on the S Plan. Have I missed something? Are there new rebates?
I now have Minnesota plates. I used to have Wisconsin plates because I lived there during school 2 months ago. People don't look at me weird anymore and they don't throw cheese curds at my car now that I have MN plates. I think I am going to wait until I can get a better deal on these tires. I know last year, the local firestone stores had a deal where if you bought two blizzaks, you got two free. I need to wait for a deal like that. Otherwise, I will order them from the tire rack which has package deals and they will sent you the tires already mounted on steel rims. I will have to wait till they have a surplus of them though, probably sometime in august or september. By the way, I drove a 2002 corolla tonight, and all I can say is: Boooooring!!! It had decent pep from the engine, but the tires would squeal around corners if you were going anything above 15 mph. Yuck. It sure did ride nice and quiet though.
I've been looking for a manual shift 2000 Protege and finally found it. I found a dealership in Fredericksburg Virginia. Has anyone been to Bill Britts Mazda. They have the Pro ES that I want. I just need to know how they do business there. Could you let me know...thanks.
Living in New York state (albeit in Long Island), a set of snow tires for the new baby MP3 are something I have to consider. Question: I really don't want to slap steel wheels on the poor thing for five months...so should I gather up a set of the dull silver wheels that come on the P5 and mount up a set of 16" tires? Will the speedo be off that much?
I may get the wheels for autocross use anyway, since I don't want to ruin the RacingHart 17" wheels that come with it.
I'm very pleased with the X-Ones on my 323. They're placed in the all-season "touring" class though. Of course the Yokohama AVID T4s are also placed in this class (they used to be in all-season "performance" class, at least by Tire Rack). No personal experience with the AVIDs, but I read they squeal loudly near their breaking point, which may be a good thing.
Anyway, I've yet to lose traction in the wet when taking corners or accelerating hard (as hard as 92lb-ft of torque can get you), whereas I constantly hear and feel my Firestone FR6802s slipping in the wet all the time. The FR680s have poor grip in even light snow. I tip-toe during the winters here (considering Blizzaks so I don't have to drag along my tire cables).
The X-Ones are pretty good for all-around work. They're decent in light snow, but if you get lots of snow or get ice, I'd spring for a set of dedicated winter tires. While I haven't yet gotten the the half-way mark, what I hear is that many of the water-wicking sipes in the tread pattern wear away, which makes the tires perform about par with most all-season tires in the wet. Still, the treadwear rating is something ridiculously high (700, I think); they'll probably outlast my '89 323.
Just so you know, I'm considering the Michelin X-One, Yokohama AVID T4, Bridgestone RE910, Goodyear Aquatred 3 to replace my Firestone FR680 tires. I'm looking for all-season, light-snow tires that are somewhat of a cross between touring and performance tires.
If you're looking for higher performance, I'd consider Michelin Pilots, Yokohama H4 or Z4, the Kumho Ecsta (sp?), Dunlop SP4000 and others of this type. However, they all suffer in even light snow cover, so I'd also plan on getting a set of snow tires. Most are also unidirectional designs, so you shouldn't rotate them from one side of your car to the other.
Tire Rack is a good source of owner's responses. Look for ones with large numbers of owners responses (individual variability has less effect on the ratings then). You can pull up tables that summarize by type of tire (touring, performance etc).
BTW, the Firestone FT70c and Bridgestone BT70 do have quite different tread patterns. All else being equal (materials, number and construction of nylon and steel belts etc.), the tread pattern can make quite a difference in performance, thus explaining the CR results. IMO, CR is a very good source of info on most items (they may be off when they're evaluating products in a field they just started in...I didn't entirely agree with their judgements when they first started testing computers, for example).
Well, I looked at the Yokohama AVID T4S, standard touring tires at Tirerack.com. BTW, Jerry, Maltb and all, thanks for the advice on my sitituation!
Meade, the Yoko's seem like nice tires, however I need "ALL-SEASON" tires. We get about 4 or 5 snow storms in Southeastern PA. every winter. You get that awesome Southern weather, lol!
Meade, did you look at the Dunlap SP SPORT W-10's at $70.00 a tire or the Pirelli P6000's at $83.00 a tire. They also received good reviews and ratings. The Pro's: better performance than the Yoko's. The Con's: Not as good tread life as the Yoko's. I got to get back to work. :-) Talk to ya Monday, Meade.
Nice chat last night. We nominated Fowler to head up are owners topic, last night. I hope he will accept. Lets show him our %100 support by posting a vote for Fowler here at this disscusion. If you guys support him and he accepts, I will e-mail Pat_Host Monday!
The price I'm getting includes S-Plan pricing, a $1000 rebate from Mazda on the Protege, and a $400 rebate from Mazda's Graduate program. The S-Plan price for a 2001 Protege ES with manual transmission and floor mats is $14,850. Along with the $1000 rebate, Mazda is also offering 4.9% financing for up to 60 months. There is also 6 months no payments for recent college grads.
(Actually, my wife is the one that just graduated from Nursing School, so we are buying it in her name to qualify for the extra incentives.)
Thank you, honey!!
I'm tempted to wait around for Nissan's new SE-R which is coming later this year, but the pricing on the Protege ES is too good to pass up. Just call me an opportunist.
Just some infomation please. I am running a 2001 LX 2.0L engine with a 4 speed auto transmission. I have noticed that when cruising at 70 MPH the tach reads 3,000 RPM which seems about 800 RPM higher than other cars that I have used and taken notice of the RPM's at this speed. The vehicle seems to hit the shift points just fine. Just wondering if anyone else is turning these RMP's at speed?
I have a 2001 ES with automatic, and it runs 3000 rpm all the time at 70 mph. The car has done this since brand new, and I have almost 11,000 miles now. Totally normal.
Hey Larry, Paul, Vic and others in the Mid-Atlantic area ...
Sean's now 2 months old and he's already tipping the scales at 15 pounds. (Go figure, look at his dad.) The family will be taking a four-hour trip to North Carolina's Outer Banks in September, and I think Sean will do fine. He already enjoys his time (er, "sleeps") in local trips in the Protege, so I would think he'll be a real "pro" at it by September.
So I've been thinking ...
How about MAPP2 on a nice fall Saturday, say maybe October? It'll be cooler, and if we happened to do it where we did it last year, the scenery will be beautiful.
(For all you newcomers, "MAPP" stands for "Mid-Atlantic Protege Picnic." We held our first one last September at a state park in the mountains of Northern Virginia. We had -- how many was it, guys -- 9 folks in 5 Proteges? It was nice to meet Larry (protegextwo) and his family, Paul (vocus) and his friend, and a couple other guys.
Of course, we don't have to do the second one at the same place. This was just a quick thought I had.
Anybody up for a little reunion? I for one wouldn't mind seeing Paul's piecajunk 2001 ES (just having a little fun there, Paul). And seeing everybody's cars about 20K later might be interesting! We can have a "who's got the biggest ding?" contest. (Ooooh, changing one letter in that last word would change the meaning of THAT sentence SIGNIFICANTLY -- but I won't go there!)
by end of this year, i plan to change and would certainly go for the Kumho 205/55VR15 , one size bigger. I think the wheel well in the ES is big enough to accomodate the extra inches in the width and the diameter which are
7.9" -> 8.4"
23.4" -> 23.9"
Larry, do check them out and don't be carried away "that anything Korean is crap".
It was MY recommendation of the Kumho Ecsta Supra 712 that started this whole thread about tires! I had the "idiocy" to bring up an economical yet excellent performance tire for our economical yet excellent cars, and I immediately got slammed because I dared recommend anything other than Michelin for our Lexus-bashing sports sedans.
Been there, done that. But I'm leaning toward Yokohama AVID T4s from TireRack now. I've had personal experience (not marketing brainwashing) with, er, let's see now ... Yokohama, Toyo, Michelin (yes, everybody, BY-GOD MICHELIN, Bridgestone, Kelly, Firestone, Pirelli and Goodyear. Oh, and Dunlop motorcycle tires.
I actually wouldn't mind coming to the picnic again this year, but we need to have it closer to Maryland this time. I am not trying to drive another 125 miles up into the Virginia mountains. It was a beautiful ride though.
Why don't you have the Mid-Atlantic picnic closer to Minnesota this year? We could call it the Midwest picnic. You guys wouldn't mind driving 1300 miles would you? I want to see the how the pre 2001 cars are holding up. We could have a burnout contest and we could see who could drink the most Old Milwaukee in 1 hour. After everyone is thoroughly sauced up, we could prowl the streets of St. Paul looking for Civics with big wings and grapefruit shooters to race. Come on, it'll be fun!
I guess you'd rather have ME drive 125 miles up to Maryland so you can have it on YOUR doorstep? You know, it was a bit of a drive for me too ... and how about poor Larry? This time we'll have a 5-month-old baby with us. Now if our baby can put up with a two-hour drive (hell, it'll be almost FOUR to the Outer Banks), can't you somehow manage to survive??????
Geesh. Can't please some people .... how does that go? I'm outta here for the weekend. Y'all have a good weekend!
That is too funny! Does sound like a good time though, but of course without the liquor. No one needs alcochol to have fun. Like hell!!
Geez Meade, it was only a suggestion. It was a long drive for me and Larry as well, but to me it was well worth the drive. Beautiful scenery out in the country and a great time had by all.
That's right folks, my 2000 Protege ES (Bought July 2000) has almost 50,000 miles (49494) as of today. I feel like I live in the PRO.
As far as service goes, I replaced the air filter at 30K, spark plugs at 30K and had the automatic transmission fluid flushed at 35K. I have the oil changed every 5K (regular dino oil) and the tires rotated every second oil change (10K).
Tires-New tires will be upcoming shortly. Not because of wear, because I hit a monster pothole going over train tracks today and must have busted a cord in the Potenzas, because now there is a bulge in the sidewall of the left front tire. For everyone dogging the Potenzas, I have 50K miles on the original set with 4/32" tread depth left. They show excellent wear and I have had no problems with wet roads or tire squeal. I probably could have gotten 10K more miles out of these tires.............
Observations- 1. The lower lumbar area of the drivers seat sucks. I have tried nearly every position of the seat and couldn't find a comfortable position. I am in an out of the car 15 times a day, so I don't sit for too long at any one time.
2. The door lock knobs are in the wrong place. My arm is supposed to go right there on the top of the door panel with the windows down, but the lock knob pokes me in the arm. Could have found a better position for them.
3. Air Conditioner- Awesome, cold, cold, cold. Never had any problems whatsoever.
4. Body-I have a few small rock chips in the hood (already touched up nicely). Very well built car, no squeaks, rattles, or vibrations.
5. Radio-Performs great for how I use it. 7 bars is plenty loud with windows down and moonroof open. No skips or malfunctions with the CD player.
6. Interior-very roomy and well thought out. I like the storage area under the radio in the 2000 ES. I have only had someone in the backseat twice, so I can't give any opinions in that area. The trunk is more than adequate. I have it stuffed with sales information and merchandise.
7. This car definately needs fully functioning delay wipers and not just intermittent delay. Needs a truck release on the keyless entry pad. The horn sounds dorky (sounds like a clown horn). More lower lumbar support in drivers seat.
Overall, I think the 2000 Mazda Protege ES is great. I have no regrets in buying this car and the Silver Metalic paint is very good. It doesn't show dirt too bad and looks wonderful when washed and waxed. Sorry I wrote a book.
Lower lumbar support non-existant in Honda Accord and Toyota (two different models of T) so I'm grateful its as good as it is, relatively..My last car a '96 Ford Contour V6. Its 6-way power seat had inflatable lumbar support,one size could fit all. It,s the best driver seat I ever sat in! It was darn near perfect. Door lock knobs..Agree Full delay wipers..Agree. Had 'em on last car. Clown horn, dorky sounding..you've got it right. Know anyplace that sells aftermarket horns? I appreciate the info. I got an '01 ES on June 5 and its always good to hear the Pro and the Con from other owners. Dennis MI
I noticed that there's been quite a discussion about the winter tires for Protege here lately - I haven't check this forum for couple of weeks. Well, here's my experience:
My wife's '00 ES came originally with V rated Potenza's which, as I noticed after the VERY FIRST snow day were sliding a little bit better than Avalanche's goalie skates :-) I started shopping around and noticed that if I want to stay with the original size I'd have to get something that would run me over $100.00 per tire + labor. I really didn't feel like paying that much for a set of tires and looked at the alternative sizes. Well, I ended up getting a set of Winter King M&S 195/60R-15. It might have affected speedometer reading, but neither me nor any of the cops around notice anything.
Winter King's, as I've been told in different places (Discount Tire, Big-O tire), are Michelin's off-brand. They run for only $53 per tire + labor. Plus I paid $10 per tire to stud them - I really do believe in studs :-) Well, let me tell you this: these were the best winter tires I've ever had. We put these tires on 4 vehicles in our family and when I looked at them last week getting ready to put them on again they were still in perfect condition with virtually all studs still in place. I suggested these tires to my friend last winter as well and he was VERY happy with them and is going to put them on this winter again (he also studded them). I don't think they are available from any (or at least most of) on-line retailers, but they are available from Discount Tires stores around the country.
That's an epistle you wrote. LOL Sometimes I write them, too. Looks small when you write it, big surprise when it appears on the boards.
I agree about the lack of lumbar support, it's a pain in the kidneys most of the time. Those othopedic guys should be sent into excile in Patagonia.
I'm having a pad made to help in my Pro. A trim shop is going to cut a 2 inch piece of medium density foam with the thickest part (lumbar area) at the top and taper it down to the seat cushion. I'll try the bare fosm for a couple days to see if it needs re-shaping or trimming, then the trim shop will make a cover for it using car upholstery fabric.
If it works I'll e-mail photos to one of you for posting. I don't have a web site.
The problem I found with Honda Accord seats is the seat cushion is too thin where it meets the bottom of the backrest cushion. There is practically no padding there. And the foam in the seat is like cement. You can't even make a dent in it pressing with your thumb.
"The Pirelli P400 Touring, $49--an all-season tire, despite its "touring" name--continues to top that category in our tests. Its excellent wet and dry braking, resistance to hydroplaning, and emergency handling make it a strong choice for most driving conditions. If your driving includes ice and snow, you're likely to prefer the Yokohama Aegis LS4, $43, or BFGoodrich Control T/A M65, $51. Both showed fine all-season balance, with notably better performance on ice and snow. The ninth-place Goodyear Regatta 2, $57, is a valid all-season choice where winters are long and severe.
" Though I only have 25K on my 2000 ES, I just wonder what kind of all season tire will suit the ES best? Any comment.
BTW,, I usually have tire rotation every 10K. Do I have to do balance everytime? Thanks
sorry we didnt get to chat last night, but you were nominated for something and i seconded that emotion. As to your last post, my 97 accord has lumbar (pump it up) support and it works fine. Can you recommend replacemen tires for my honda. After 51k they need it. Currently has Michelin P195/60 R15 MXV4's. I would like to try something different but there is so much out there.
That's Mazda's new tag-line for the 2001 Protege. The commercial starts out with a Miata spinning out at high speeds in the desert. Then, it goes to Miata driving enthusiastically down a windy road. Appearing from no where, a silver Protege ES appears and chases the Miata down this long windy road trying to pass it. Then, of course, the camera moves away and there's the "Zoom Zoom" boy.
In my opinion, it was a terrific commercial!!! Finally, Mazda is advertising the zoom zoom of the Protege!! It's about time!
Karen, the owners club host has requested, several times prior to you becoming a regular here, for us to nominate a group leader. Jim, you would be perfect to lead our Protege family. Karen can better explain what is needed, however; to my understanding, you already do what is required. Attend the chats when possible, request added threads if needed (you did that when you requested the chat transcripts be posted, here at the Owners Club) and welcome new posters to our discussions.
We have an awesome group of regulars here. IMHO, we make this club a fun and informative place to talk cars in general and Protege's specifically. I'm sure Paul, Todd, Jerry, Meade, Vic, maltb, mazdafun, djmax, my-self and the other regulars here will help fulfill Edmunds Town hall tenants of an active, upbeat, informative, and FUN Owners Club! Fowler "you the man"! Please, accept our nomination.
I live in Charleston SC, but I'd love to attend a PRO picnic in the Outer Banks. It would be a 5-6 hour drive for me but I'm willing to make the journey. Two great reasons to come: 1) put some faces with the names around here 2) a good excuse to do some ZOOM ZOOMing long distance. (She only has 600 miles! NEWPRO4ME: excellent 50K recap. Thanks.
Hmmm, my 97 Accord LX didn't have inflatable lumbar cushioning, by chance is your's an EX with leather?
About tires: the three times I bought tires for cars, so long ago I hardly remember it, I bought Goodyear in the '60's, Firestone and Pirelli in the 70's. The Perellis were P3's bought because they were much quieter than Michelins, good on wet surfaces,especially ice. But not good in snow.
Correction: I had the dealer replace the Continentals on a new Audi Fox with Pirelli P3's in 1977. The Continentals were extremely noisy.
I've been trying to find out which Pirelli tire replaced the P3 series, but that doesn't mean it will be equally good. Tires, like cars, gain or lose something with each model change. That is why it is so diffult to recommend tires and, because the other person's drivng style may not get the same results or road feel.
Usually, I traded before the tires needed replacement. Or something happened to a car forcing a new one, such as being totaled in a wreck (96 Accord had 52K on it).
Wow! You also have a 97 Accord? and a Protege? I guess great minds think alike. Yes you are correct about my car. It is an EX with leather. Its my "FAMILY" car. My wife loves it and wont let me sell it. BTW i ended up getting Dunlop A2 P205/60R 15's. The tire dealer said I could get the Yokohama Avid's if i wanted. They are about the same price. But these Dunlops are new on the market and are supposedly great in wet weather. So their you have it.
I just bought a 01 Protege ES in black with the 5-speed. It's a nice car. I was on my way to the Honda dealer to get a Civic when I decided to check out the Protege. I walked out with a new Protege for a few hundred dollars over invoice and 0.0% financing. The sheer value of the car is what convinced me buy it. I am a long time Honda-maniac but the Protege will more than serve it's purpose for the next couple of years.
Comments
Of course, here in sunny San Diego, I could go with performance tires and not have to worry. I have heard nothing but good things about the Michelin XGT's and I used to run Michelin X series tires on my MG and Escort GT when I had them. Outstanding tires! Sure, they offer a bit less handling than the performance tires. However, you may be able to retain your handling by going with a set of 205/50's rather than the OEM 195/55's. The Nitto's I have on my Pro now are 205/50's. They not only look better, but they give you great handling. The only downfall is a slight decrease in fuel mileage due to their extra resistance from being wider.
Good Luck!!
Larry, there are other tires out there that are just as good.
Check out the Yokohama AVID T4s on the Tire Rack web site. (They come up when you enter our cars too.) Check out all the links on them, and then check out user comments. Then check the price. I had a set of Yokohamas on another car I owned and they were excellent tires. They may not come with their own little baby seat in them so babies can scoot around naked in the rain in them, but you won't get taken to the cleaners either.
Here guys ... let's come down from Media Land and enter the real world. Read this:
http://www.consumerreports.org/main/detail.jsp?CONTENT%3C%3Ecnt_id=18707&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=18151
Funny, in the category "all-season car tires," the Michelin tire was the most expensive (re, go figure), cost damn near twice the price of the Yokohama, and the Yokohama equalled or beat the Michelin in all categories tested. So did a Pirelli and a BF Goodrich. And the Yoko did better in rain and snow than the Michelin that was DESIGNED as a wet-weather tire (hence the name "Rainforce" --- ooooohhh! What a cool name! I'll bet some Michelin Marketing Department guy or gal got a day's comp time for that one!)
Larry, we're friends. Would I steer you wrong? Don't waste your money on another piece of rubber and steel that's been overinflated (yes, pun INTENDED!) by a hyped-up marketing campaign.
Signed,
Meade
Occupation: Marketing & PR Manager
"Because so much is riding in my wallet."
2001 Mazda Protege ES, 5-speed, Silver, with moonroof. The only option it has is the floor mats. The price (after all the rebates and S-plan stuff) is $13,450 + TTL. We will also take the 4.9% for 60 months and no payments for half a year. The best deal I've found in small sporty sedans!
As for the review at consumerreports - I would take it with a big chunk of salt! I know for a fact that the Bridgestone BT70s is IDENTICAL to the Firestone FT70C. Why, then, does their test show a large discrepancy?
And the tire equivalent of the Pirellis, and the Firestones that they tested is NOT the Michelin Rainforce, but the X series (XGT, X-One/XH4 - which I bought). These would, though, be even more expensive! (Don't know about the 15 and 16 inch prices, but the 175-70-13s for my 95 DX cost 65 each, including free everything (mounting, balancing, valves, stems, caps etc). These handle quite well on sharp corners, and in all kinds of weather - I've driven them in snow and rain, and I'm more than satisfied with their handling characteristics in both conditions. I love the road feel when i drive to the ski areas in winter - winding, steep mountain roads, with all my passengers white-knuckled!. If price were a major consideration (as it surely is when you replace 8 tires ProX2!), if I had to chose again, I might go with Yokohama Avid T4s, but even these cannot match the handling and warranty the Michelins have. Mine - the XH4, now replaced by the X-One - have a 70K mile, 580 treadwear, AA rating, and with less than 10K miles on them, two summers and a snowy winter later, I cannot tell them from new! And I do drive my car quite aggressively on corners and have taken it on a lot of bad, rouch and unpaved roads in many National Parks and even driven it up Pike's Peak in Colorado! (Not recommended - it tore both CV Joint boots, and its almost the same price to replace the joints, so that's what I had to do at a cost of $300!)
As for color - I'd go with white. I'm biased because I have a white car myself. White is the rarest Protege color, and one of the easiest to keep clean. Makes the car appear a bit larger than a darker color. But I do have to agree that when waxed, it does not look nearly as good as metallic or darker colors! As for being common, I doubt its any more common than silver! And statistically, your chances of being pulled over for speeding, are the lowest (from what I hear). (That, though, hasn't stoppped me from being pulled over twise, and ticketed once - so this may not be too true, or maybe I just got unlucky!)
Fur the person (Ru.....) picking between the Sentra, Civic and Pro - first of all, eliminate the Sentra! No back seat room, unpolished feel, bad finish quality, butt-ugly rear-end (but I repeat myself!).
A friend of mine is now vacillating between A Civix EX and Pro ES. She does not drive aggressively at all, and may own the car for only 2-3 years, and is (so far) sold on the higher mileage. I honestly feel the Civic is the best bet for her. But if you plan to keep it longer, appreciate available power (city or highway) when you need it and enjoy the driving experience, there is no question that the Protege is the car to go with! Of course, i' comparing the VTEC 1.7 liter engine-equipped Civic EX. I hear the LX non-VTEC engine is even noisier at high revs (if that's possible). As for interior build quality, I think these two ranges of cars are on par, although the interior cubbyholes and storage spaces in the Civic are better laid out IMHO. For myself, between these two cars (or the LX 2.0 and the Civic LX, for that matter), there's no question I'd pick the Mazda Protege! Hope this helps.
-Terry
I may get the wheels for autocross use anyway, since I don't want to ruin the RacingHart 17" wheels that come with it.
Anyway, I've yet to lose traction in the wet when taking corners or accelerating hard (as hard as 92lb-ft of torque can get you), whereas I constantly hear and feel my Firestone FR6802s slipping in the wet all the time. The FR680s have poor grip in even light snow. I tip-toe during the winters here (considering Blizzaks so I don't have to drag along my tire cables).
The X-Ones are pretty good for all-around work. They're decent in light snow, but if you get lots of snow or get ice, I'd spring for a set of dedicated winter tires. While I haven't yet gotten the the half-way mark, what I hear is that many of the water-wicking sipes in the tread pattern wear away, which makes the tires perform about par with most all-season tires in the wet. Still, the treadwear rating is something ridiculously high (700, I think); they'll probably outlast my '89 323.
Just so you know, I'm considering the Michelin X-One, Yokohama AVID T4, Bridgestone RE910, Goodyear Aquatred 3 to replace my Firestone FR680 tires. I'm looking for all-season, light-snow tires that are somewhat of a cross between touring and performance tires.
If you're looking for higher performance, I'd consider Michelin Pilots, Yokohama H4 or Z4, the Kumho Ecsta (sp?), Dunlop SP4000 and others of this type. However, they all suffer in even light snow cover, so I'd also plan on getting a set of snow tires. Most are also unidirectional designs, so you shouldn't rotate them from one side of your car to the other.
Tire Rack is a good source of owner's responses. Look for ones with large numbers of owners responses (individual variability has less effect on the ratings then). You can pull up tables that summarize by type of tire (touring, performance etc).
BTW, the Firestone FT70c and Bridgestone BT70 do have quite different tread patterns. All else being equal (materials, number and construction of nylon and steel belts etc.), the tread pattern can make quite a difference in performance, thus explaining the CR results. IMO, CR is a very good source of info on most items (they may be off when they're evaluating products in a field they just started in...I didn't entirely agree with their judgements when they first started testing computers, for example).
Meade, the Yoko's seem like nice tires, however I need "ALL-SEASON" tires. We get about 4 or 5 snow storms in Southeastern PA. every winter. You get that awesome Southern weather, lol!
Meade, did you look at the Dunlap SP SPORT W-10's at $70.00 a tire or the Pirelli P6000's at $83.00 a tire. They also received good reviews and ratings. The Pro's: better performance than the Yoko's. The Con's: Not as good tread life as the Yoko's. I got to get back to work. :-) Talk to ya Monday, Meade.
Respectfully,
Larry
Respectfully,
Larry
Pro x two
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/avid_rd.htm
Meade
(Actually, my wife is the one that just graduated from Nursing School, so we are buying it in her name to qualify for the extra incentives.)
Thank you, honey!!
I'm tempted to wait around for Nissan's new SE-R which is coming later this year, but the pricing on the Protege ES is too good to pass up. Just call me an opportunist.
I am running a 2001 LX 2.0L engine with a 4 speed auto transmission.
I have noticed that when cruising at 70 MPH the tach
reads 3,000 RPM which seems about 800 RPM higher than
other cars that I have used and taken notice of the RPM's
at this speed.
The vehicle seems to hit the shift points just fine.
Just wondering if anyone else is turning these RMP's at speed?
Larry: What is the position? And thank you for the
votes.
fowler3
Sean's now 2 months old and he's already tipping the scales at 15 pounds. (Go figure, look at his dad.) The family will be taking a four-hour trip to North Carolina's Outer Banks in September, and I think Sean will do fine. He already enjoys his time (er, "sleeps") in local trips in the Protege, so I would think he'll be a real "pro" at it by September.
So I've been thinking ...
How about MAPP2 on a nice fall Saturday, say maybe October? It'll be cooler, and if we happened to do it where we did it last year, the scenery will be beautiful.
(For all you newcomers, "MAPP" stands for "Mid-Atlantic Protege Picnic." We held our first one last September at a state park in the mountains of Northern Virginia. We had -- how many was it, guys -- 9 folks in 5 Proteges? It was nice to meet Larry (protegextwo) and his family, Paul (vocus) and his friend, and a couple other guys.
Of course, we don't have to do the second one at the same place. This was just a quick thought I had.
Anybody up for a little reunion? I for one wouldn't mind seeing Paul's piecajunk 2001 ES (just having a little fun there, Paul). And seeing everybody's cars about 20K later might be interesting! We can have a "who's got the biggest ding?" contest. (Ooooh, changing one letter in that last word would change the meaning of THAT sentence SIGNIFICANTLY -- but I won't go there!)
What say everybody? Up for a Zoom?
Meade
They are cheap at $63 apiece at tirerack.
Not only that, take a look at this survey:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/kumho/ku_712.jsp#Survey
by end of this year, i plan to change and would certainly go for the Kumho 205/55VR15 , one size bigger. I think the wheel well in the ES is big enough to accomodate the extra inches in the width and the diameter which are
7.9" -> 8.4"
23.4" -> 23.9"
Larry, do check them out and don't be carried away "that anything Korean is crap".
Been there, done that. But I'm leaning toward Yokohama AVID T4s from TireRack now. I've had personal experience (not marketing brainwashing) with, er, let's see now ... Yokohama, Toyo, Michelin (yes, everybody, BY-GOD MICHELIN, Bridgestone, Kelly, Firestone, Pirelli and Goodyear. Oh, and Dunlop motorcycle tires.
Meade
And I will give you pieca junk!
Geesh. Can't please some people .... how does that go? I'm outta here for the weekend. Y'all have a good weekend!
Meade
Geez Meade, it was only a suggestion. It was a long drive for me and Larry as well, but to me it was well worth the drive. Beautiful scenery out in the country and a great time had by all.
As far as service goes, I replaced the air filter at 30K, spark plugs at 30K and had the automatic transmission fluid flushed at 35K. I have the oil changed every 5K (regular dino oil) and the tires rotated every second oil change (10K).
Tires-New tires will be upcoming shortly. Not because of wear, because I hit a monster pothole going over train tracks today and must have busted a cord in the Potenzas, because now there is a bulge in the sidewall of the left front tire. For everyone dogging the Potenzas, I have 50K miles on the original set with 4/32" tread depth left. They show excellent wear and I have had no problems with wet roads or tire squeal.
I probably could have gotten 10K more miles out of these tires.............
Observations-
1. The lower lumbar area of the drivers seat sucks. I have tried nearly every position of the seat and couldn't find a comfortable position. I am in an out of the car 15 times a day, so I don't sit for too long at any one time.
2. The door lock knobs are in the wrong place. My arm is supposed to go right there on the top of the door panel with the windows down, but the lock knob pokes me in the arm. Could have found a better position for them.
3. Air Conditioner- Awesome, cold, cold, cold. Never had any problems whatsoever.
4. Body-I have a few small rock chips in the hood (already touched up nicely). Very well built car, no squeaks, rattles, or vibrations.
5. Radio-Performs great for how I use it. 7 bars is plenty loud with windows down and moonroof open. No skips or malfunctions with the CD player.
6. Interior-very roomy and well thought out. I like the storage area under the radio in the 2000 ES. I have only had someone in the backseat twice, so I can't give any opinions in that area. The trunk is more than adequate. I have it stuffed with sales information and merchandise.
7. This car definately needs fully functioning delay wipers and not just intermittent delay. Needs a truck release on the keyless entry pad. The horn sounds dorky (sounds like a clown horn). More lower lumbar support in drivers seat.
Overall, I think the 2000 Mazda Protege ES is great. I have no regrets in buying this car and the Silver Metalic paint is very good. It doesn't show dirt too bad and looks wonderful when washed and waxed. Sorry I wrote a book.
It was darn near perfect.
Door lock knobs..Agree
Full delay wipers..Agree. Had 'em on last car.
Clown horn, dorky sounding..you've got it right.
Know anyplace that sells aftermarket horns?
I appreciate the info. I got an '01 ES on June 5 and its always good to hear the Pro and the Con from other owners. Dennis MI
Did you see my question to you in post 4798?
Meade
My wife's '00 ES came originally with V rated Potenza's which, as I noticed after the VERY FIRST snow day were sliding a little bit better than Avalanche's goalie skates :-) I started shopping around and noticed that if I want to stay with the original size I'd have to get something that would run me over $100.00 per tire + labor. I really didn't feel like paying that much for a set of tires and looked at the alternative sizes. Well, I ended up getting a set of Winter King M&S 195/60R-15. It might have affected speedometer reading, but neither me nor any of the cops around notice anything.
Winter King's, as I've been told in different places (Discount Tire, Big-O tire), are Michelin's off-brand. They run for only $53 per tire + labor. Plus I paid $10 per tire to stud them - I really do believe in studs :-) Well, let me tell you this: these were the best winter tires I've ever had. We put these tires on 4 vehicles in our family and when I looked at them last week getting ready to put them on again they were still in perfect condition with virtually all studs still in place. I suggested these tires to my friend last winter as well and he was VERY happy with them and is going to put them on this winter again (he also studded them).
I don't think they are available from any (or at least most of) on-line retailers, but they are available from Discount Tires stores around the country.
I agree about the lack of lumbar support, it's a pain in the kidneys most of the time. Those othopedic guys should be sent into excile in Patagonia.
I'm having a pad made to help in my Pro. A trim shop is going to cut a 2 inch piece of medium density foam with the thickest part (lumbar area) at the top and taper it down to the seat cushion.
I'll try the bare fosm for a couple days to see if it needs re-shaping or trimming, then the trim shop will make a cover for it using car upholstery fabric.
If it works I'll e-mail photos to one of you for posting. I don't have a web site.
The problem I found with Honda Accord seats is the seat cushion is too thin where it meets the bottom of the backrest cushion. There is practically no padding there. And the foam in the seat is like cement. You can't even make a dent in it pressing with your thumb.
fowler3
"The Pirelli P400 Touring, $49--an all-season tire, despite its "touring" name--continues to top that category in our tests. Its excellent wet and dry braking, resistance to hydroplaning, and emergency handling make it a strong choice for most driving conditions. If your driving includes ice and snow, you're likely to prefer the Yokohama Aegis LS4, $43, or BFGoodrich Control T/A M65, $51. Both showed fine all-season balance, with notably better performance on ice and snow. The ninth-place Goodyear Regatta 2, $57, is a valid all-season choice where winters are long and severe.
"
Though I only have 25K on my 2000 ES, I just wonder what kind of all season tire will suit the ES best? Any comment.
BTW,, I usually have tire rotation every 10K. Do I have to do balance everytime? Thanks
Dong
That's Mazda's new tag-line for the 2001 Protege. The commercial starts out with a Miata spinning out at high speeds in the desert. Then, it goes to Miata driving enthusiastically down a windy road. Appearing from no where, a silver Protege ES appears and chases the Miata down this long windy road trying to pass it. Then, of course, the camera moves away and there's the "Zoom Zoom" boy.
In my opinion, it was a terrific commercial!!! Finally, Mazda is advertising the zoom zoom of the Protege!! It's about time!
We have an awesome group of regulars here. IMHO, we make this club a fun and informative place to talk cars in general and Protege's specifically. I'm sure Paul, Todd, Jerry, Meade, Vic, maltb, mazdafun, djmax, my-self and the other regulars here will help fulfill Edmunds Town hall tenants of an active, upbeat, informative, and FUN Owners Club! Fowler "you the man"! Please, accept our nomination.
Respectfully,
Larry
Two great reasons to come: 1) put some faces with the names around here 2) a good excuse to do some ZOOM ZOOMing long distance. (She only has 600 miles!
NEWPRO4ME: excellent 50K recap. Thanks.
And thank you for your confidence and votes.
fowler3
About tires: the three times I bought tires for cars, so long ago I hardly remember it, I bought Goodyear in the '60's, Firestone and Pirelli in the 70's. The Perellis were P3's bought because they were much quieter than Michelins, good on wet surfaces,especially ice. But not good in snow.
Correction: I had the dealer replace the Continentals on a new Audi Fox with Pirelli P3's in 1977. The Continentals were extremely noisy.
I've been trying to find out which Pirelli tire replaced the P3 series, but that doesn't mean it will be equally good. Tires, like cars, gain or lose something with each model change. That is why it is so diffult to recommend tires and, because the other person's drivng style may not get the
same results or road feel.
Usually, I traded before the tires needed replacement. Or something happened to a car forcing a new one, such as being totaled in a wreck (96 Accord had 52K on it).
fowler3