2014 BMW 4-Series Lease Questions

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  • konacougkonacoug Kailua-KonaMember Posts: 196

    @patyojon said:
    Thanks. I got a little better offer from another dealership in SoCal as I live in Santa Monica:

    ** Payment Details**
    Term 36 Months
    Base Payment $538.81
    Total Payment $587.30
    Purchase Option $28,624.25
    MSRP $46,925.00
    Selling Price $44,900.00
    Est. Miles Per Year 12,000

    Amount Due at Signing
    1st Month Payment
    587.30
    Acquisition Fee
    725.00
    Fees & Insurance
    509.00
    Upfront Taxes
    122.51
    Cap Reduction (Cash)
    556.19
    Total Inception Fees
    2,500.00

    How's that look??

    Not really all that good!! I recommend that you contact Greg Poland at Pacific BMW, Jon Shafer at Santa Barbara BMW email them your build requirements. The selling price is a little high and you could definitely do better. Also, what fees and insurance is in your quote. I know in California, it is only an $80 doc fee. There is no other insurance you should be buying from a BMW dealer. Gap insurance is included in the Acquisition fee. If you have the funds, you should do the MSD's too. Finally, don't do a cap reduction, even if you only do one MSD instead, it lowers your money factor rate by .0007

  • patyojonpatyojon Member Posts: 12

    damn ok thanks for the response! I'll contact those guys today

  • bmwfan9bmwfan9 Member Posts: 1

    Hi, please help. I got an offer on 2014 435i with Lighting Package, Technology Package for $49,600, invoice $47,840, MSRP $51,975. 36 mos 12K miles, 61% resdual, MF .00130, $1,150 down (no Cap Reduction) $682/mo including 8% CA tax. Does this sound right? My calculation comes out to be only $651 including tax but he said mine left out some fees. Please advise. Thanks so much for your help.

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 187,854

    You have to account for an acquisition fee of $725, and title/registration fees of around $500.. That would easily make up the extra $30/mo. The residual and money factor are correct.

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  • konacougkonacoug Kailua-KonaMember Posts: 196

    @bmwfan9 said:
    Hi, please help. I got an offer on 2014 435i with Lighting Package, Technology Package for $49,600, invoice $47,840, MSRP $51,975. 36 mos 12K miles, 61% resdual, MF .00130, $1,150 down (no Cap Reduction) $682/mo including 8% CA tax. Does this sound right? My calculation comes out to be only $651 including tax but he said mine left out some fees. Please advise. Thanks so much for your help.

    bmwfan9, the mf is the base rate, have you included the acquisition fee in your calculations? The base is 725, they can raise it to the max of $925. If you are only putting down 1150, that means you are financing some of the normal drive offs. I also think you are paying a little too much for this car. I strongly recommend you contact Greg Poland at Pacific BMW or Jon Shafer at Santa Barbara BMW. Or even just send your build via email to internet depts. of dealers in your area.

  • trusaleen1trusaleen1 Member Posts: 98

    Did residuals or money factors change at all for BMW 4 series for 15k 36 months for February

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 187,854

    The January BMW rates are good through February 28th.

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  • trusaleen1trusaleen1 Member Posts: 98

    @[email protected] said:
    The January BMW rates are good through February 28th.

    Thank you

  • berzerk91berzerk91 Member Posts: 7

    Do you have the 36 month rate for a 435i x drive 12k miles per year? Is this the optimal lease term?

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 187,854

    @berzerk91 said:
    Do you have the 36 month rate for a 435i x drive 12k miles per year? Is this the optimal lease term?

    .00130 MF and 61% residual.

    That is definitely the best term.

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  • dwb959dwb959 Member Posts: 12

    Hi, need a little help. Working on with a NJ dealer: 435XI Coupe with 12K miles at 36 months. Buying 5 MSD's with a monthly payment of $599 including taxes in the payment. MSRP is $55925 and selling price is $50,858, 61% residual. Total out of pocket (fees, first month payment and the MSD's) = 5175. Car has Luxury, cold weather, premium and navigation. This is the first time I'm doing MSD's is there anything that the dealer holds back at the lease end? Above all do you think this a good deal? Any help is greatly appreciated.

  • konacougkonacoug Kailua-KonaMember Posts: 196

    The base money factor is .00130, so after your 5 MSD's your mf should be .00095. It is kind of hard to tell how good your deal is without all of the details. What is the acquisition fee, should be $725, what doc fee are you paying? in NJ, are you paying your taxes monthly? What rebates/incentives are you getting? DMV fee and are there any other fees you are paying?

  • speedster2014speedster2014 Member Posts: 10

    What are your thoughts?
    MSRP &56,400 Sale Price $54,900 Out the door in VA is $57,751 .
    12k / 36 month , 0 down but first payment is due = $833 / month, Cap cost $58,694.04 , residual 61% @ $34,404 , money factor .00170

    I know the money factor should be .00130 based on what I have seen on this forum, but how does everything else look? Does it make sense that cap cost is higher than out the door price? With zero down, what would the payments on a good deal look like here? Thanks.

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 187,854

    @dwb959 said:
    Hi, need a little help. Working on with a NJ dealer: 435XI Coupe with 12K miles at 36 months. Buying 5 MSD's with a monthly payment of $599 including taxes in the payment. MSRP is $55925 and selling price is $50,858, 61% residual. Total out of pocket (fees, first month payment and the MSD's) = 5175. Car has Luxury, cold weather, premium and navigation. This is the first time I'm doing MSD's is there anything that the dealer holds back at the lease end? Above all do you think this a good deal? Any help is greatly appreciated.

    The dealer doesn't control the security deposit, BMWFS does (the bank). They don't play games. At the end of the lease, you owe what you owe, whether you have a $3000 security deposit or a $600 security deposit. You want to make sure they aren't marking up the money factor and the acquisition fee, before deducting for your MSDs.

    If the only thing added to the selling price is the sales tax, then the payment looks a little high, as I get a payment of approx. $546/mo, pre-tax. That works out to about $585/mo, with tax, I'd think.. I'd ask them for the money factor. As noted, it should be .00095 (.00130 - .00035).

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  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 187,854

    @speedster2014 said:
    What are your thoughts?
    MSRP &56,400 Sale Price $54,900 Out the door in VA is $57,751 .
    12k / 36 month , 0 down but first payment is due = $833 / month, Cap cost $58,694.04 , residual 61% @ $34,404 , money factor .00170

    I know the money factor should be .00130 based on what I have seen on this forum, but how does everything else look? Does it make sense that cap cost is higher than out the door price? With zero down, what would the payments on a good deal look like here? Thanks.

    $1500 off MSRP, but $1500 in money factor markups? Not good at all. It's possible that the OTD price could be for sale or lease (including tax), then the CAP cost adds the lease acquisition fee (and the tax on that).

    I don't know which model this is on, but most 3 Series have a minimum of $1000 customer cash from BMW, so this is pretty sad, really. Which model is this?

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  • dwb959dwb959 Member Posts: 12

    @dwb959 said: Hi, need a little help. Working on with a NJ dealer: 435XI Coupe with 12K miles at 36 months. Buying 5 MSD's with a monthly payment of $599 including taxes in the payment. MSRP is $55925 and selling price is $50,858, 61% residual. Total out of pocket (fees, first month payment and the MSD's) = 5175. Car has Luxury, cold weather, premium and navigation. This is the first time I'm doing MSD's is there anything that the dealer holds back at the lease end? Above all do you think this a good deal? Any help is greatly appreciated.

    [email protected]: The dealer doesn't control the security deposit, BMWFS does (the bank). They don't play games. At the end of the lease, you owe what you owe, whether you have a $3000 security deposit or a $600 security deposit. You want to make sure they aren't marking up the money factor and the acquisition fee, before deducting for your MSDs.

    If the only thing added to the selling price is the sales tax, then the payment looks a little high, as I get a payment of approx. $546/mo, pre-tax. That works out to about $585/mo, with tax, I'd think.. I'd ask them for the money factor. As noted, it should be .00095 (.00130 - .00035).

    Hi, I'm definitely using .00095 and 61% residual as the new money factor and 61% residual, all other fees I'm paying in cash along with first month payment. Monthly payments include taxes but even that I'm coming up with $581.71 (8.625% NYS tax)? Not sure how they're getting the other $17 per month to come up with the $599 payment? What else could I be missing? Help please as I want to become better educated about this process. Appreciate the help already.

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 187,854

    Anytime you see a payment of $599 (or $499, etc.), then it usually doesn't happen by accident. Either the buyer has asked for a certain payment, or the dealer thinks that payment will sell the car. Negotiating a selling price, and having it come out exactly that way just doesn't happen.

    When you get a look at the CAP cost, it's probably going to be different from that $50,858 selling price. There aren't many explanations, other than that... or, the money factor being bumped.

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  • konacougkonacoug Kailua-KonaMember Posts: 196

    @speedster2014 said:
    What are your thoughts?

    MSRP &56,400 Sale Price $54,900 Out the door in VA is $57,751 .
    12k / 36 month , 0 down but first payment is due = $833 / month, Cap cost $58,694.04 , residual 61% @ $34,404 , money factor .00170

    I know the money factor should be .00130 based on what I have seen on this forum, but how does everything else look? Does it make sense that cap cost is higher than out the door price? With zero down, what would the payments on a good deal look like here? Thanks.

    Downright awful!! I have never seen a cap cost higher than the MSRP. The selling price is way too high and they max the money factor out, which in your case is probably costing you over $50 per month in payments. I am assuming you are rolling in your acquisition fee,(which should be only $725) and any other fees, such as doc and dmv.

    You need to start over....work from invoice on the car, then subtract any incentives. Always deal from the base money factor, period!! If the dealer is unwilling to do that WALK. Get a complete breakdown of all of the fees. You should at least pay the drive offs, ie acquisition fee, dmv and first payment.

    Personally, I think they are totally hosing you and I would be skeptical of any deal they offer you.

  • speedster2014speedster2014 Member Posts: 10

    thank you to both of you for your quick and candid feedback. I'm done with this dealership. Sent out a request for quote to pacific BMW based on some of your other posts, lets see if they're willing to place in order for someone on the east coast. This is for a 428xi. If the pacific bmw deal doesn't workout, would you recommend going through the Costco auto buying program?

  • patyojonpatyojon Member Posts: 12

    I'd recommend talking to Jon Shafer at Santa Barbara BMW...he was more helpful for me than Pacific BMW

  • dwb959dwb959 Member Posts: 12

    [email protected]: Anytime you see a payment of $599 (or $499, etc.), then it usually doesn't happen by accident. Either the buyer has asked for a certain payment, or the dealer thinks that payment will sell the car. Negotiating a selling price, and having it come out exactly that way just doesn't happen.

    When you get a look at the CAP cost, it's probably going to be different from that $50,858 selling price. There aren't many explanations, other than that... or, the money factor being bumped.

    Hmmm, so do you think there's more negotiation room in the selling price of the vehicle? Right now building it on the BMW site it's about 56K. Is this a fair deal if they won't budge? I've been trying for the back up camera option but they're refusing to add it in free of charge in the lease cost, (why it's not part of the Premium Package I don't know). Their reason is that it's an extra $25 a month option but they're "negotiating" it down to $10 per month. However with that extra $10 a month the MSD's will go from $600/each to $650 each (+250 over the 5 original MSD's cost + increase in monthly payments from the difference in what I'm calculating).

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 187,854

    I haven't negotiated the price on a new BMW since 2008, so I'm probably not the best person to ask about your selling price... Other members here have more recent experience.

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  • dwb959dwb959 Member Posts: 12

    Okay thanks anyway. Anyone else think this is a good deal?

  • konacougkonacoug Kailua-KonaMember Posts: 196

    DWB959 the DAP package is only a $950 option, which certainly does not add $25 per month to your payment, I believe more like $10. Also, in your original post with the options you indicated the MSRP should only be $55,225. The dealer isn't going to give options for "free"...in the old days, that use to be a selling tactic, especially for US manufacturers.

    Along with Kyfdx, I'm a little skeptical about how they conveniently came up with the $599 payment... I would carefully look over all of the fees they are charging...in NJ they have a variable doc fee and they could be hosing you on that one.....

  • konacougkonacoug Kailua-KonaMember Posts: 196

    Speedstar2014: deal with Greg Poland at Pacific BMW, Jon Shafer at Santa Barbara BMW or Justin at New Century BMW.

  • speedster2014speedster2014 Member Posts: 10

    Ok, tried another dealership. MSRP 55,525, Invoice 52090, Cap Cost 52090, residual 61% (33,870), MF 1.30, drive off $2,024, monthly payment incl tax $673. This is for a 2014 428xi, 12k/yr. How does this seem? Are the numbers accurate? Also, is it worth waiting two weeks for March deals? You guys are awesome.

  • dwb959dwb959 Member Posts: 12
    konacoug from the fee perspective it's 599 1st month, 725 bank fee, 359 doc, 3000 msd, 399 Dmv and 93.49 tax on doc and bank fee. Total Due at Signing 5175.00. Selling price 50,858. They have said they've already reduced the selling price to waive the doc fee by $359. Thoughts?
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 187,854

    @speedster2014 said:
    Ok, tried another dealership. MSRP 55,525, Invoice 52090, Cap Cost 52090, residual 61% (33,870), MF 1.30, drive off $2,024, monthly payment incl tax $673. This is for a 2014 428xi, 12k/yr. How does this seem? Are the numbers accurate? Also, is it worth waiting two weeks for March deals? You guys are awesome.

    Given those numbers, the pre-tax payment is $618/mo. If your tax rate is around 8.9%, then the payment is correct for those numbers. That is the base MF rate and the correct residual.

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  • iridium8iridium8 Member Posts: 9

    Hi everyone, would like and appreciate your thoughts on this lease deal:

    428i (Sport Line, Lighting Package, Premium Package, Tech Package, H&K Surround)
    Destination: 925
    MSRP: 51650
    Invoice: 48045
    Offered 750 over invoice: = 48795
    Residual (62%): = 32023
    Acquisition Fee: 725
    Total Cap Cost: 49035
    MF: .00125
    Base Monthly: 573

    • Tax: Total Monthly = 624
  • konacougkonacoug Kailua-KonaMember Posts: 196

    Iridium...does the $750 over invoice include any incentives?? Your sell price should be established prior to incentives, then you take them out. Many dealers, will tell you that the price includes the incentives already, they are a separate issue.

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 187,854

    @iridium8 said:
    Hi everyone, would like and appreciate your thoughts on this lease deal:

    428i (Sport Line, Lighting Package, Premium Package, Tech Package, H&K Surround)
    Destination: 925
    MSRP: 51650
    Invoice: 48045
    Offered 750 over invoice: = 48795
    Residual (62%): = 32023
    Acquisition Fee: 725
    Total Cap Cost: 49035
    MF: .00125
    Base Monthly: 573

    • Tax: Total Monthly = 624

    Did you lock in these rates in a previous month? Current MF is .00130. $500 in BMW incentives on the 4-Series, this month.

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  • iridium8iridium8 Member Posts: 9

    @kyfdx: Yes, I did lock those in from the previous month. I ordered the car and it's being shipped over. Should arrive at the end of February. What type of program is the $500 BMW incentive this month? Is it a dealer holdback or publicized?

    @konacoug: I didn't know of any incentives offered. Are there any being offered at this time? @kyfdx mentioned the $500 BMW incentive.

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 187,854

    It's $500 Drive for Team USA credit.

    But, you can't use the MF/residuals from one program, and the cash incentives from another.. It's all one program or the other.

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  • iridium8iridium8 Member Posts: 9

    Thanks for the info. I assume the lease deal posted above sounds like a reasonable deal?

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 187,854

    @iridium8 said:
    Thanks for the info. I assume the lease deal posted above sounds like a reasonable deal?

    The numbers add up... seems reasonable to me.

    I would consider making 7 MSDs, if it were me. That would drop your money factor to .00076 and drop your payment by $42-$43, post-tax... Yes, $4200 is a lot to put up front, but it's a security deposit that you get back at the end of the lease. That's a substantial savings, and a 12% annual, after-tax return on your $4200 for 3 years.

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  • notsob7notsob7 Member Posts: 2

    @carleaseny said:
    Perfect timing!

    Please post the November money factor and residual for the 2014 BMW 428i Xdrive for 36 months, 12,000 miles per year for NY tri-state area. I'm not sure about getting the navigation package so please post numbers with and without if there is a difference.

    Also, was a dealer correct in telling me that multiple security deposits are not allowed in New York? If they are allowed, how much will a MSD reduce the MF? For example if the MSD is $2,000, is the MF reduced by 0.00005?

    Thanks very much.

  • patyojonpatyojon Member Posts: 12

    If I locked in a deal last month and ordered the car from overseas, is it possible to negotiate a new deal with the new rates? Or are they most likely going to work out to the same deal in the end?

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 187,854

    @notsob7 said:

    You can't do MSDs in New York, that's true.

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  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 187,854

    @patyojon said:
    If I locked in a deal last month and ordered the car from overseas, is it possible to negotiate a new deal with the new rates? Or are they most likely going to work out to the same deal in the end?

    I haven't seen much of a difference in rates over the last few months..

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  • iridium8iridium8 Member Posts: 9

    @kyfdx: Thank you for your input and information about the MSD. 12% annual is a good return.

    Also a few questions if you have the time:
    1. What happens to the car at lease end if I choose to get into a new car? Does the dealer buy the car from BMWFS? If so, does the dealer buy at current market price or below market?
    2. If I choose to buy the car at lease end, would I negotiate the purchase price of the "used" vehicle or do I buy at the residual value price stated in the lease agreement?

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 187,854

    1) The dealer can buy the car from BMWFS, at current wholesale market value, but they don't have to. If they don't, the car goes to an auction, usually just for BMW dealers.

    2) You can definitely buy your car at the residual at lease end, if you choose to. If you think your car is worth considerably less than the residual, you can ask your dealer for a quote to buy it, and this may save you some money, assuming it is worth less. BMW has really jacked up residuals in the past, and this led to a lot of people turning the car in, and pre-arranging a purchase with their dealership, as the car was not worth the residual. BMWFS has put a few policies in place to make that harder to do, so it's not as prevalent as before.

    Most people don't buy their car out of the lease. When the lease comes due, and 60 month purchase payments are $600/mo. for a used car, they usually turn around and lease another new one..

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  • konacougkonacoug Kailua-KonaMember Posts: 196

    Most people turn in their cars at the lease end....lots of times, BMW FS offers to pull ahead the last three payments, if you lease a new car. You can roll over your MSD's too and the disposition fee is waived. Also, depending on the dealer some minor issues with the car might be over looked.

    Finally, the high residuals rarely equal the car value at the end of the lease. Also, you may learn you want different options, different model and better yet, European Delivery next time :))

    Plus, hopefully, you have learned how to get the best deal possible for yourself.

  • fdg1fdg1 Member Posts: 2

    @kyfdx Hi -Would appreciate your thoughts on this lease deal. I'm in NYC.
    BMW 435i - 36Mos/10K per
    MSRP 56,550
    Invoice 52,480
    Sell Price 53,050
    MF .00130
    Residual 62%
    Upfront taxes 1,962.50
    due at signing including tax (tax, dmv acquisition, 1st mo. payment) 3,538.58
    Mo. Payment 614.24

    Also, based on these numbers I cant actually get back to the 614 per Mo. or the taxes. I actually get to $599 per month before tax.

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 187,854

    @fdg1 said:
    kyfdx Hi -Would appreciate your thoughts on this lease deal. I'm in NYC.
    BMW 435i - 36Mos/10K per
    MSRP 56,550
    Invoice 52,480
    Sell Price 53,050
    MF .00130
    Residual 62%
    Upfront taxes 1,962.50
    due at signing including tax (tax, dmv acquisition, 1st mo. payment) 3,538.58
    Mo. Payment 614.24

    Also, based on these numbers I cant actually get back to the 614 per Mo. or the taxes. I actually get to $599 per month before tax.

    I get $614.. Maybe you used invoice instead of Sell price in your calculations?

    The deal looks good. The lease program is decent, but not great, but they are giving you the base rate.

    If I was structuring the lease, I'd roll the taxes and acq.fee into the payment ($2687.50), which would take the payment to $692.

    By rolling the taxes and acq.fee into the lease, if the lease ends shortly, due to theft or accident, GAP insurance pays off any balance uncovered by your insurance. GAP won't reimburse you for taxes and fees paid upfront (and, I'm guessing the state of NY won't, either).

    That's a small detail, and unlikely to happen, but if it did, you'd have an extra couple of grand in your pocket.

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  • berzerk91berzerk91 Member Posts: 7

    fdg1, I would not go for that deal if I were you. I live just north of NYC (Westchester) and this is the deal I managed to close: MSRP: $62,250, Selling to me: $56,056.12, Residual 61%, MF: .0013, Payment: $624.56. Doc fee of $75, taxes and other DMV fees as usual, I can check the breakdown if you want. If you are located in NYC I recommend that you reach out to BMW dealerships further away. FYI, I passed on a Black M Sport 435i xdrive (higher MSRP than on your vehicle) from Wide World BMW that they were quoting me at $620/month without any cash down as a cap cost reduction. I passed for an Estoril Blue one out in NJ (JMK BMW). The guy I used at Wide World is named Alan. Try going for that one if the color works for you.

  • wcthumper1wcthumper1 Member Posts: 1

    Does anybody know the money factor for Feb on a 435i Cab? Is it the same as the 435 coupe of 0.00130? Or is it 0.00125?

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 187,854

    .00130 on almost every BMW model, this month.

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  • trusaleen1trusaleen1 Member Posts: 98

    Has BMW announced if they are continuing the same rates for March, or is a new program expected to be rolled out. I'm picking up my BMW in april via euro delivery.

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 187,854

    No announcements... current program runs through this Friday.

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  • panfam007panfam007 Member Posts: 3

    Are there any ideas on 24mos/10K RV on 435?

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