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Comments
Comparing the Mercury Mariner & Jeep Liberty Ltd.
Main questions are:
1) Wet/rained on pavement considered enough to use 4hi setting on Liberty?
2) Is it worth it to get the CommandTrac?
3) What should a Ltd cost right now w/ incentives? Are the dealers discounting? (DC market if applicable)
4) Any major mechanical or worrisome short term problems on Liberty?
Thanks for helping out.
That's why i am here asking specific questions.
-There is one issue that could be improved for 'widening' a track, and that's the power steering assistance. I wasn't able to turn my steering when my wheels were in the deep snow groove. This limits the possibility to get out.
-Since I have a diesel Liberty and I was stuck for the first time, I played with the transfer case quite a bit. In deep snow I didn't find the LO mode useful. There is enough power available in the HI range (part or full time). When the truck starts to move again, the LO mode is too slow and doesn't allow to gain enough speed.
-To conclude, wait for the snow blower if there is more than 15" of snow or buy 4 chains and a high lift jack + a shovel and a knitted hat for the blizzard! The rest is just a piece of cake...
Also, does anyone know why Jeep isn't offering the Quadra-Drive as an option on the Liberty? Is the reason that they want you to spring for the extra $ for the Grand Cherokee, and keep that "exclusive"?
I drive about 90% highway in Indiana, and take two or three trips a year out west. The Tracker has been up high (above 11,000') offroad 20 to 30 times and performed very well. I mostly stick to grade 3 and easier trails, but occasionally get into deep water, and deep kimchee, (upper Schaffer Gulch, Nellie Creek, Lost Creek east of Marble, Co.) I have yet to find a trail the Tracker can't handle, and it can run through sustained two foot snowdrifts, and even three footers if they don't last too long.
Here are my questions regarding the Liberty Renegade:
1. What kind of mileage am I looking at if I get the manual 6 speed transmission?
2. Will I be able to find a manual locally or will I have to order it and wait?
3. What will the manual do to resale value?
4. How will the manual affect offroading on grade 3 and 4 trails? Combined with a 1300 mile drive (one way) to get to the trails, which way would you gop, manual or automatic, and why?
5. How well does the Liberty ford? The Tracker successfully negotiated a 24 inch creek, and weighs about the same as the Liberty, but it felt a little light on it's wheels and I wouldn't want to ford much deeper waters with it.
6. How do the Liberty front seats sleep?
7. The Tracker's headlights are always on, impossible to turn off, irritating for others at a trailhead if I want to run the heater in the middle of the night. Does the Liberty allow you to run the engine w/o the headlights coming on?
8. It looks to be a significant pain in the neck to get all the features offered by the "Off Road package" if you also want Select Trac all wheel drive. How does Liberty handle in two to four inch snow in 2WD? Often I encounter patchy roads, the county plows but does not salt. Without Select Trac I would want to subject the drive train to 4WD High, leaving 2WD the only option.
9. Is the Trac Lok limited slip differential worth what they charge for it? How does it affect offroad performance? How easy is it to engage? How easy is to engage accidently and how damaging is this on normal pavement in 2WD?
10. What is the best tire option available for the 2005's? I hear the stock rubber is questionable of snow or wet pavement. Is this a general complaint or just inexperienced drivers?
11. Is the rear window out of the way when it's up, or do you have to worry about smacking your head on it? I'm 6'0", and often cook out of the back of the Tracker at trailheads.
Any information you can offer on these questions, or other issues I haven't though of yet is appreciated.
1) 6-speeds are still pretty rare, but should have similar mileage to the previous 5-speed manuals. Highway mileage is usually lower than EPA rating. Expect 20-22 on the highway after it breaks in. Skip the Renegade's light bar which cuts about 2mpg off.
2) It will be difficult to find a manual on a dealer lot, especially if you are picky about options. However, talk with a local salesman who can search other dealers.
3) Manual has lower resale percentage than automatics for several years. Auto costs $800 more up front. After 120k miles if you plan to keep this vehicle that long, I think the difference will be less than $800.
4) Manual transmissions have their pros and cons for off-roading. Better control, but often slipping the clutch on steep grades or rock climbing instead of letting the torque converter take the slack. There are many Liberty owners of both that go far off-road. On the highway, fuel economy is rated the same. It is a preference. The 6-speed is supposed to have a very nice feel, but I've never driven one.
5) I think Jeep's official stance is the Liberty can take 20" of water at 10mph. check out the intake at a dealer. Does the Tracker weigh 4200 pounds like the Liberty? I thought it was a lot less.
6) No idea. I rarely sleep in vehicles. My wife often does, but we have not yet driven our Liberty on any trips.
7) No daytime running lamps on Liberties (except Canada). you have full control.
8) I think you can only get Selec Trac with an automatic. I have Selec Trac and really like it. 2wd at low speeds is not very good because of the torque. Once moving, I often switch to 2wd from full time 4wd and it handles fine with intermittent snow. Most Liberty owners on some other forums recommend Select Trac.
9) I do not have the LSD, but recommend it. There is no driver intervention required to activate it. Howstuffworks.com has a great article on differentials and why LSD is beneficial. I chose not to get it because a) I'll have this vehicle for less than a year and b) Select Trac full is good enough for my driving situations.
10) I have not heard anyone praise any of the Liberty OEM tires, although I have not read any comments about the 17" Wrangler HP's I have. I have been through 3k miles of snow and cold rain and not have the issues many have of the other tires. If you are ordering, I'd plan to replace the tires right away. Most local tire stores will give you credit for brand new OEM tires. I did this with my F-150, give a reasonable credit towards purchase (not inflated price) of some different ones within 250 miles.
11) I'm 6'4" and have no problems with the rear glass. It's very high.
Another thing to keep in mind is the suspension is rather stiff. Combine that with short wheelbase and long rides on poor highways may not be very fun.
I like my Liberty a lot. Far from perfect, but I really like the driving experience.
Not much extra clearance.
BTW, my Limited had an MSRP of $28,415 (loaded) and I paid $23,200 plus title and registration. No sales tax here in Oregon, so it was $23,350 or so out the door.
The one-year subscription to Sirius satellite radio is pretty cool.
Thanks for the information. The 6 speed does limit the options and even availability. Per dealer search, there are no silver manuals in a ten state radius.
He does have a Sport with skid plates and AT tires, and if he'll go invoice plus five and a roof rack, I'll probably do it.
The Tracker specs said 3850 pounds. The box frame was a lot of the weight.
If that is true, I shouldn't need the "Mopar" treatment, ( I have a 15 year old Chevy Astro Van with a "galvanized body, and it hasn't rusted) and I'm concerned that the undercoating part of the package will make working on things on the undercarriage of the vehicle difficult.
I don't feel that I can't trust my dealer or Chrysler to spell out the truth. Can you find out if, indeed, the body is made of galvanized steel? Would you recommend the protection package? Time is running out for me to make a decision. Please help.
Thanks,
Bob Cushing
Most carmakers these days use galvanized steel, aluminum and plastic which don't rust so you shouldn't need additional "rustproofing." Regular washing and waxing should be adequate to keep your Liberty looking good.
tidester, host
Can you recommend a good tire choice? Doing a bit of research, i've found that a 31" tire is about the largest the lift can accomodate. The 245/75 or 265/70 (R16) are both about 30.6". Will either one fit the Liberty and what are the pros/cons of each?
Thanks!!!
thanks alot for the good info.
1. How much total weight can the Liberty safely tow?
2. When towing, should I take off the Overdrive or should I drive in a lower gear altogether?
Thanks!!
I will say that even our 2004 Dodge Neon gets up to 32 and we avrage 28mpg. But according to Consumer Reports the Neon only gets 24mpg. Can you tell I have lost some faith in what they have to say. However they do reccomend the Liberty over the Escape and many other smaller sized SUV's. This is my first Jeep, and it is much stronger than I had thought it was, and better built.
new to the forum here. I thinking about getting a 05 Liberty but was wondering
if anyone knows what changes will be made to the 2006 Liberty?
anything significant?
thanks
I dont think its fair to compare a new Liberty to an old 1998 Forester. Compare the ride quality, fuel economy, ground clearance, price, and features to a 2005 Forester and THEN tell me what you come up with.
I just want to warn every one about my bad experience with the 2004 Jeep Liberty product and the subsequent poor product support.
:sick: Problem One: Faulty Windshield
About a year ago, I purchased a brand new Jeep Liberty Unlimited 2004 from the Lithia Jeep Dealership in Santa Fe, NM. Because of botched paperwork at the dealership, we didn't drive the Jeep much for the first week. During this period, the windshield split from the base upward while the Jeep was parked in a lot. We brought this problem up to the dealer. after inspecting the damage, the dealer claimed that glass is not covered under warranty, and furthermore, the dealer claimed that the windshield split from the base up because a rock hit the windshield at the base of the windshield. This is highly unlikely since we had hardly driven the vehicle. We had previously owned and driven a Jeep Liberty without ever having the windshield break in this manner, and since we replaced the broken windshield, we have not since had any splitting in the manner.
It is most probable that the break was caused by a latent defect or a faulty installation. I still have pictures of the damage. Has any one else experienced a similar problem?
:sick: Problem Two: Poor Product Support
In order to get Jeep to pay for the defective windshield, I wrote to the national Jeep office and the dealership on several occasions. The representatives of both organizations had trouble understanding and responding to the situation. On one occasion, my faulty windshield case was closed because of the conclusion of an inspection that never occurred. Jeep has still refused to pay for the replacement of the defective windshield.
As a result of this slipshod product quality and poor customer support, I would not recommend Jeep or the Lithia dealership to any one.
You bought a vehicle that doesn't exist. There's no such thing as a Liberty Unlimited.
Nice creative writing, though.
I think the reference was to the Limited.
It's the Wrangler that comes in an Unlimited flavor. Confusing eh?
Steve, Host
tidester, host
I have a 2005 Sport Liberty with Auto. Really wanted a 6 speed,,but no one in all of K.C. carried one. I bet manuals get better mileage in town.