Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
Options

MINI Cooper

1333436383952

Comments

  • ozone1ozone1 Member Posts: 87
    It really depends on where you are buying. Here in the SF Bay Area...SF MINI charges quite a bit more than $600 over MSRP, while others in Concord and Mountain View are significantly less (not even sure if those two dealers charge over MSRP), but the wait seems to be longer for the vehicle...at least that's what I've heard. Good luck, it doesn't hurt to try to negotiate the surcharge down.
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,669
    I'm looking for an idea of what the MINI would be like on a longer drive. I used to have an '83 VW GTI which was a marvelous car for driving around town but it turned out not to be well-suited for highway trips as it was buzzy, at 70mph the engine was turning almost 4000 RPM.

    I ended up swapping it for something with better highway gearing.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • crunchcrunch Member Posts: 84
    Personally, I wouldn't take the MINI on an extended road trip (like an all day drive). Its not a noise issue, the MINI is quiet and tame at highway speeds. It would be more of a comfort thing for me.
    BUT I'm over 50 and also own a Caddy for the road trips. A younger person may have a totally different perspective. I've read of more than a few coast-to-coast trips when the left coasters bought their MINI on the right coast for a savings and drove them home. Maybe a few of them could comment here?
  • minihopefulminihopeful Member Posts: 14
    I'm an independent IT consultant living in Houston, TX, and I've just signed a 12-month contract with a client in Austin. I've been wanting to get a MINI S for a while, but I have a few concerns now that it will be used as a weekly commuter. Is the MINI a comfortable cruiser on long trips? I'm certainly not expecting Lexus or Mercedes-like comfort and ride, but more so on how it rates against others in the same class. Also, is the S with the sports package unbearable for less-than-perfect roads? My weekly commute to Austin (350 miles round trip) will consist of mostly intrastate highways with some back-country roads mixed in. The winding back-country roads will make for great driving fun, albeit they won't be concrete smooth. I can handle the road noise, the small trunk, and even put up with the occasional bugs which have plagued many owners of earlier models, but if the ride is bone-jarring, then this would be a bad idea especially for long jaunts on a regular basis. I love everything about the S, but I just don't want my body to pay for it week after week. Thanks for your input.
  • markjennmarkjenn Member Posts: 1,142
    While the MCS would work for your mission, it is far from the ideal car.

    It's just not a car optimized for interstate cruising. The ride is very stiff, it clomps over freeway expansion strips as bad as any car, the seats are rather small and very stiff, it isn't particularly spacious inside, it doesn't have very good cup-holders, etc. etc. etc. It's a car optimized for point/shoot running around town and backroads explorations.

    Another problem is that it sounds like you will be heavily dependent on your car. While the Mini has most of the bad bugs out, it is still a car that is likely to need a trip or two every year to the dealer to get things corrected. As well, the free maintenance requires dealer visits. Unless your dealer is convenient to you, this sort of thing may be a major hassle.

    Again, the MCS will work Ok, but you can get a lot more comfortable, more reliable, wide dealer network, etc. car for the same money: the Mazda 3 comes to mind right off the bat, although there are good choices form Honda, Toyota, Nissan, and VW.

    Final thing to mention: for their size, Minis get crappy mileage - I'm getting about 22, admitted mostly around town, but heck, it only does about 5 mpg better than my 4500-lb AWD SUV, which is really pretty ridiculous. It is a rare MCS that will crack 30 mpg, even on the highway. For the kind of miles you are going to be wracking up, why not look into something that is really easy on gas? For example, a Prius or a VW diesel. No, they're not driver's cars, but they're a heck of a lot more roomy and comfortable for an interstate drone and they will use a lot less gas.

    I love my MCS, but droning down the freeway is not its forte at all.

    - Mark
  • minihopefulminihopeful Member Posts: 14
    Wow...Mark, you just gave me a cold shower! I do appreciate your input; I just didn't think it would be so negative. There's a MINI dealer 30 min from my house in Houston, so dealer visits aren't a hassle, unless problems crop up while I'm in Austin. In any case, as long as it won't leave me stranded, then I can just wait til I return to Houston to get the problem fixed. I'm surprised by the low highway mpg on the S, however. Fortunately, my fuel costs will be expensed to the client, so even high 20s will be good enough. I'm more concerned about the ride comfort over 3+ hours and the competence of the A/C since I'm in Texas. If the ride wears on my body and/or the A/C is sub-par, then I'll have to pass. I'll have to ponder over this decision some more.
  • markjennmarkjenn Member Posts: 1,142
    The A/C is fine, but I don't live in Texas.

    Have you driven one yet? See if you can get a 30-min+ test drive on the interstate. And find the closest Mazda dealer to your Mini dealer and drive a 3 back-to-back if you can on similar roads. This will tell you a lot.

    Can you forgo the sport package? This will help a lot. I'd also consider replacing the run-flats with conventional tires. The ride is much, much better with 16-inch wheels and conventional tires. For a flat, you can carry some fix-a-flat, compressor, and a AAA card. You're unlikely to pick up a nail on heavily travelled roads.

    Personally, I think the base MCS for $20.5K to be the real value leader in Minis. The options are over-priced and under-deliver.

    You should get a car you like and it sounds like the dealer is convenient to you. So it really is just a matter of whether you want to live in the thing for several hours on your trips. I don't think you'll find it great, but it may be acceptable.

    FWIIW, I have had no issues with my 2004 MCS with 5K miles. I love it. But I would never have bought it if I had a long commmute. I'd be in a Mazda 3 or RX-8. The 3 is just a car that straddles the "driving fun" and "comfortable cruiser" a lot better.

    - Mark
  • minihopefulminihopeful Member Posts: 14
    I agree with you on the Mazda 3 having a better balance between sport and comfort, and it's certainly more ideal for long trips. Except the 3 would be a rational decision vs. the S being a passionate decision. I'm an enthusiast first and foremost, so I'd feel as though I'm "settling" for the 3. I've test-driven both the S and the 3, and to me the MINI has a grin factor the Mazda just can't even come close to matching. It's not just the driving experience; it's the entire experience.

    So it looks like the best solution is to stay with the standard 16s on the S with all-season tires. That should make the ride more tolerable. The premium package is the only must-have for me.

    Thanks again, Mark, for your owner input.
  • ozone1ozone1 Member Posts: 87
    Not sure how much my input will help you since I have the MC and not the S. I use my MINI for commuting every day and for weekend trips, some long some short. In fact, I just completed a MINI rally with some fellow MINI owners from San Francisco to Santa Cruz, CA (about 150 miles round trip)...I find my MINI with the 15" rims and sport seats with lumbar support to be very comfortable and the ride suits me fine. As for maintenance, there certainly are some MINIs out there with problems, my 2003 MC with CVT transmission has been a dream. No doubt the larger rims with the run flats do ride harsher, never experienced it myself, but no one with S who was on our run to Santa Cruz was ever complaining.
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,669
    your input helps me since I am considering a MC/CVT. Aside from ride I'm concerned with the seemingly meager power output (I wish they'd offer a MCS with CVT as I an no longer drive a std for medical reasons). Do you feel the lack of power? If not are you used to cars with power in the neighborhood of 200 hp?

    Thanks again for the input guys.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • markjennmarkjenn Member Posts: 1,142
    Andy, go for it. You've done your homework and you know what you're getting into. The MCS is not uncomfortable on trips, just not as comfortable as competing models. I tour on sport motorcycles, clicking off 500 miles in a day, and compared to this, the MCS is Cadillac. Everything is relative.

    My negativity is mostly grounded in posts I see every day on other forums where folks get a Mini because they look cool and are fun to drive. They like it for the first week, and then start whining about how noisy, uncomfortable, and harsh riding it is. They truly think there is no reason that a car like the Mini can't provide a level of comfort as a Camry or Accord.

    If your eyes are wide open and expectations are appropriate, you won't be disappointing for a second. The car is an absolute hoot. I'm coming from a Lexus GS300, a velvety sport cruiser, and I very seldom miss it. Mostly, I feel like I have a car which is appropriate for the things I like to do with a car.

    I have only two real complaints: gas mileage and the difficulty in carrying things. While you can fold the seats and get a far amount inside, the space isn't very easy to use. A trip to Costco has you spending 10 minutes in the parking lot finagling everything in. But I wasn't expecting a cargo hauler. I was expecting a lot better gas mileage from such a small car and this remains my one big disappointment in the car, although the difference betweeen the 22 I'm getting and the 26 I was expecting isn't financially significant.

    - Mark
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,669
    my Audi gets that, A/T, AWD and all 3400 pounds of it.

    I'd take your advice IF, I could drive a stick and the dealer wasn't 60 miles away.

    <sigh>

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • minihopefulminihopeful Member Posts: 14
    Point taken, Mark. I'm not one of those trendy types you're referring to. I know the spirit of the MINI and what it stands for. That's why I can overlook everything else from the noise, tiny trunk, firm ride, rattles, to the "crappy" gas mileage. My only real concerns were the seat/ride comfort and A/C performance over long stints. Those aren't something I can easily extrapolate during short city test drives. I'm sure I'll love it as I'm not expecting to be pampered. I just wanted to find out how "uncomfortable" it can get after 3+ hours behind the wheel.

    On a side note, have you ever tried fitting a golf bag in the trunk? Besides a small suitcase, the golf bag would be the only cargo I'd carry in the MINI from time to time.
  • markjennmarkjenn Member Posts: 1,142
    Sorry, I haven't tried to fit a golf bag. But I'm sure it won't fit with the seats folded up as the "trunk" is really a tiny slot well behinds the seats; you're lucky to get a couple grocery bags in.

    Fold the seats down, and they'll fit I'm sure, but they'll probably lay ackwardly since the short rear seat backs sorta form a perch rather than a nice long load surface extending to the hatch area.

    On the highway comfort issue, I can tell you that I drove 500+ mile days for five straight days without any significant discomfort and I'm 6'2" and about 220. The amount of headroom is very generous and the windshield sits quite a ways forward so you don't feel like you're sitting down in a reclining bathtub, like, say a 350Z. The seats are somewhat narrow and very firm though and there is no surplus of room around the steering wheel or in the footwells. Engine crusing RPMs in 6th are quite reasonable and noise isn't bad at all.

    The other "comfort" issue to consider is the Mini's sketchy UI and ergos. There are a lot of ergo things about the Mini that are more stylish than practical such as the interior door pulls and the wiper controls. The radio controls aren't very easy to use either. (I ordered the satellite steering wheel controls, but unless I drive the car frequently, I still find myself having to think for an instant about which side is volume and which is tracks/stations.) Compared to the transparent controls of a Honda or Toyota, this thing is a mess. But again, if you're the type who accepts this stuff as part of the Mini experience, it's no big deal.

    - Mark
  • arkytectarkytect Member Posts: 12
    Andy,
    As the owner of a 2002 MCS, I'd back up what Mark says about being realistic about your expectations of the car. The car is a "hoot." Mine still causes me to grin getting in, driving and getting out. I still look over my shoulder after I've parked it and am walking away (yep, I'm a basket case...). My mileage is mixed city and highway and my on-board computer says I'm getting just under 31 mpg. Since the computer is a couple of mpg on the optimistic side compared to gas pump calculations, I'm really getting 27-28 mpg.

    I have put two full size golf bags in the back without stacking, though the rear seats have to be folded down.

    My only nit has been a minor intermittent rattle in the dash near the top air vent (I hear it, the dealership doesn't). But, given the opportunity to purchase a new car, I'd be at the MINI dealership all over again.

    Now, Hawaiian highways aren't the greatest, but I've been around the island of Oahu (2-3 hour trip, ha!) and don't feel beat up at the end of the journey. I'm 200 pounds, 5'-11" and the sport seats fit me fine. I especially like the seat height and rake adjustments. I did not get the sport package so I'm riding on 16" rims with the runflats. AC works great, but the recirculation function on the climate control is almost always on in direct sunlight on a hot summer day (90 degrees plus) with the thermostat set at 68 degrees, my preferred temp. My car was purchased off the lot, so I had no choice on the climate control option. I'd probably get the standard AC if I ordered a new MCS.

    Good luck on you decision!

    Mike Jennings (no relation to Mark!)
  • JingleJillJingleJill Member Posts: 120
    I'm in Texas and have an '04MCS that I've taken on road trips within Texas. Given, I think we have some of the best highways in the States.

    I agree with the comments on the Sports Package...if you can forgo the runflats, think about it. The ride is harsh, but the car is a BLAST to drive. As far as comfort, I've never felt fatigued. I get 30mpg on the highway cruising around 75-80. You do need to drive the car...If you can find one without the Sports Package try it. The runflats are just plain harsh, at least in city driving; on the highway, I haven't had a problem...

    Also, if your in Austin a lot, there is a GREAT independent Mini service center that I highly recommend if you were ever stranded...Terry Sayther Automotive. He is also well known in the BMW community. He and his wife are great people and are a Mini owner.

    Stacy
  • minihopefulminihopeful Member Posts: 14
    Stacy and Mark, I sincerely appreciate all of your owner comments. You have helped this prospective MCS owner a great deal, to say the least. I'm very much looking forward to the July production run on the 2005 MINI. I'll be counting the days.

    I'm a newbie to this forum, and what a wonderful experience it has been. The MINI community is fantastic! It's a true testament to the entire awesome MINI experience.

    Charlie
  • altaegoaltaego Member Posts: 2
    Hopeful,

    I also live in Houston, and I am also on the verge of acquiring a Mini. I have some experience driving the MCS in a similar driving climate/community to Houston, as my mother owns one in Miami (like Houston, freeways everywhere, warm weather, etc.).

    The MCS does sit low to the ground, and it's definitely not a luxury car in terms of its suspension--you feel the bumps and notches in the road, for sure, though at freeway speeds I found this effect masked by the sheer joy of whizzing along. But I kind of like those bumps and notches; it's part of the Mini experience. It's a drivers' car, right?

    I certainly haven't taken any 3-hr road trips, so I can't vouch for the comfort of such a trip, but I have driven it for an hour at a time, and found it quite comfortable and an absolute joy to drive.

    As far as the A/C, it's perfectly adequate. You don't get the cold blast you might get from a bigger engine right off the bat, but give it a few moments, and you'll be good to go, even in the heat of a Miami summer.

    I guess, as far as ride comfort, my opinion would be that it is certainly comfortable enough, but that, of course, you are trading off some of the suppleness of a Lexus or an Acura, for example, for the joy of driving a Mini.
  • ozone1ozone1 Member Posts: 87
    Neither the MC nor the MCS is truly a powerful car, where these cars shine is in their handling. On a straightaway, you may find yourself getting beaten by plenty of cars...in the twisties however, totally different story. As I mentioned before I did decide on the MC CVT and the power is adequate for everyday driving. My 2nd car is 1993 Rx7, so yes, I am used to driving a 250+ HP car and I don't mind the little 114 HP engine in my MC at all. The MCS is certainly faster, but the CVT tranny is a real kick especially in manual mode. On our rally to Santa Cruz this past weekend I was right behind one of the MCS Coopers and I kept up just fine on windy roads.
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,669
    after all I grew up on small bore sports cars of roughly 100hp.

    Now if I just knew what to do about the fact that the nearest dealer is 60-65 miles away.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • micwebmicweb Member Posts: 1,617
    I bit the bullet and decided to consolidate my cars - get rid of two and replace the two with a MINI - use the MINI for my work commute and a separate four door car for weekend use with my wife and kid.

    There is a six month wait at East Bay MINI (MSRP, no markup) so I will be getting a 2005. The salesman wasn't aware of the 2005 changes the weekend I ordered, but I found the changes listed on the MINI website (international edition).

    I ordered Pepper White, body colored roof (and, with the 2005, body colored mirrors); DSC (stability control); three spoke multi function (with cruise control); and the tiny rear spoiler. Wheels are the basic 15" with the oval holes; dash is anthracite; Panther leatherette (in 2005, with slight side bolsters).

    After the order, I thought about upgrading to the Sport Package #2, since the DSC and spoiler I ordered separtely are already part of that package, and I would get bigger wheels and tires for only an extra $650. But, after talking to some people, they recommended staying away from the run flats due to the harshness of the ride (all US MINI's come with a spare tire, even when you have runflats). One driver with stock 175 tires on the 15" wheels said they aren't so bad in terms of handling, and are very comfortable and quiet and good in the rain, and it's always easy to go to 195/60/15 tires later, which are a common aftermarket tire size (Bridgestone 950's, Dunlop Sport A2's, Goodrich Traction T/A's are all bargain performers). I checked at TireRack and tire replacements in the 15" wheel are by far the cheapest.

    I was really, really, impressed by the CVT on the 30 minute test ride I took. However, I fell in love with the stick when I drove it. Stick is NOT as quick as the CVT (although it may be quicker in super agressive magazine tests), since you have to factor in the delay of shifing with the manual transmission (the CVT, unlike an automatic, has NO interruption in power delivery because there are no shifts!), but stick feels more lively to me as a driver - I feel more connected to the experience. The clutch action and tranny are very smooth, I hope the new Getrag is as good.

    The car doesn't feel small inside, or too low (my big concern) but only time will tell on the "lowness" aspect in a brave new world of SUV's. I did a vehicle compare on the Scion website and was surprised to find out that the "wide" MINI is exactly the same width (almost exactly) as the "narrow" Scion xA (which I own). I guess the body height makes the Scion look skinny, while the wheels out to the corners and low body height make the MINI look wide. Anyway, I am small bodied so there is plenty of width in both vehicles for me.

    The only comfort issue I had in the MINI was the poor door armrest. I couldn't get my arm to rest on the armrest since the grab handle was in the way. I will be interested in seeing the grab handle and armrest re-design for 2005. Maybe this is a general concern that MINI is addressing.

    Also, ergonomics of the controls in the MINI are English-quirky (amazing, coming from a German owned company!) and not Honda user-friendly. However, I can forgive that since the main purpose of the MINI is DRIVING and I am totally blown away by the go-kart road grip in turns. The "big car" freeway feel isn't so bad either.

    I won't have much to report for 9 months (6 to get the car, and 3 to get used to it) but I'll lurk here till then, and maybe throw out an occasional question.
  • micwebmicweb Member Posts: 1,617
    The dealer told me I could extend the "maintenance included" feature out to the full warranty period (4/50,000) for $500. Any comments on this option?

    Apparently the first oil change is at roughly 10,000 miles (depending on the monitor) and thereafter at 15,000 miles (depending on the monitor). Anyone doing "interim" oil changes (without resetting the monitor and thereby blowing the free service) and, if so, at the dealer, on your own, at an oil change shop? How much?

    Also, I know the oil is BMW/MINI synthetic, but reportedly it is made by Castrol. I vaguely recall hearing that this particular Castrol synthetic is a true synthetic made in Europe, as opposed to the "fake" synthetic (Group III, not Group IV) sold as Syntec over here. Anyone know the details on this issue? I am trying to decide whether to carry in my own Mobil 1, or use BMW branded oil (which costs how much? I am sure it isn't available at Walmart).
  • markjennmarkjenn Member Posts: 1,142
    All good questions:

    1. The extended maintenance option doesn't pencil out to be a very good deal in my book, especially at $500. Depending on the roll of the maintenance reminder dice, you're probably paying upfront $500 for one extra service. Also keep in mind that you may sell the car, lemon it, wreck it, whatever, in which case the $500 is probably a write-off. Finally, they wouldn't be wanting to sell the service unless the odds were that they were going to make money on it.

    If you do decide to get it, the price is quite negotiable. I think the dealer offered it to me for $399 when I bought my car and when I passed he asked me what I'd be willing to pay. The dealer also tried to sell me a bunch of bogus tire and wheel insurance as well - make sure your shields are up when you venture into the finance mgr's office to close the deal.

    2. Many, many of us are doing an extra oil change at approximately half the time recommended by the maint reminder system. It is debatable whether it is necessary, but many of us think that it is worth it for the potential for longer engine life and peace of mind. This works out to around 5-6K for most of us.

    I don't understand why you say this would "blow" the free service. You simply do the extra change, don't reset the reminder, and take it in for the regular service on schedule.

    3. There are widely varying opinions on who makes BMW's oil. BMW's relationship with Castrol is thought to be more marketing than technical. In any event, as per the manual, you do need to use "full synthetic" oil and the Syntec sold in the states is widely thought to be more of a blend, although I'm sure it would work fine. Mini specifically says you can use Mobil 1 5W-30, it is a very highly regarded full-synthetic oil, and is is readily and cheaply available virtually everywhere including places like Costco and Wal-Mart. Why use anything else?

    As well, I wouldn't worry the slightest about putting Mobil 1 in the car when you change the oil and letting the dealer use whatever synthetic they use. Oils are all compatible. Buy what's on sale.

    People WAY over-worry about oil. Use any name-brand oil you want that meets the specs in the manual, change it reasonably frequently and the chances of having any lubrication-related issue are vanishingly small.

    - Mark
  • micwebmicweb Member Posts: 1,617
    Your post was terrific. Thanks for the info on the negotiability of the maintenance extension price, and thanks for confirming MINI owners with longterm expectations ARE doing mid-cycle oil changes. You didn't mention if they are DIY - do it yourself - or dealer. Do you know what the dealer charges...my inclination would be to take it to them with a jug of M1 for the oil. Quite frankly, I wouldn't mind paying a premium for dealer service so there are absolutely, positively no roadblocks to warranty enforcement (and no finger pointing on stripped oil pan threads, if that particular Big Ugly ever rears its head in my life again).

    Once again thanks!
  • minihopefulminihopeful Member Posts: 14
    If you do the interim oil change at the dealer, can you tell them not to reset the reminder? For obvious reasons, I wonder how receptive the technician would be to that request. If not, then it'll have to be DIY or an independent MINI shop.

    With the sevice intervals being unusually long (from owner survey so far), is this a dealer ploy to minimize the free scheduled service visits? I guess I'm being too paranoid since the service reminder is determined by the computer, but it just seems disconcerting.
  • markjennmarkjenn Member Posts: 1,142
    I'd guess most people doing extra oil changes are DYI'ers. But while dealers will sometimes say "not necessary" and even try to talk you out of it, I don't think they'll have any problem doing it for you.

    I wanted to do one at 1.5K and was on the road bring the car home at the time. I called up a dealer near my route and they worked me in the next morning, no problem. When I mentioned about not resetting the service reminder, they understood completely and said they do lots of oil changes like this and their usual routine was not to reset the system, since they were just changing the oil/filter and not doing any other inspections.

    So I doubt it would be any problem although I'm sure there is some inflexible dealer somewhere making someone's life difficult.

    I'd wouldn't expect Jiffy Lube prices. I think I paid $75 or so.

    All the German cars with maint reminder systems seem to have very long service intervals and some kind of free maintenance deal. I don't think it is a coincidence that the cars with the longest maintenance intervals are the free maintenance ones. That's one reason I think an extra oil change is prudent. While the engines may preform "adequately" and give "acceptable service life" with 12K-15K intervals between oil changes, what is acceptable to BMW's accountants and to you may be different things. There is a tremendous push with the car companies to reduce warranty expenses and owners do the most nit-picking early in a car's life, especially for time-consuming things like brake squeal, alignment, soft paint, rattles, and wind noises. If they can keep an owner out of the service bay for 15K miles while owners learn to accept their car's quirks, their warranty costs plummet. I think they're very willing to trade off engine longevity for this benefit.

    - Mark
  • micwebmicweb Member Posts: 1,617
    My VW had a tuneup at 40k. What about the MINI? When does the manual call for an oil filter, plugs, PCV valve etc. - real stuff, as opposed to inspections and tire rotations?
  • feverfever Member Posts: 6
    I have been doing my homework on different car and think that i have decided on the mini. I have a good idea about what i want, but i do have a few questions. I start looking at the mc but the more i think about the mcs it seems to be a good deal for what you get. Any thoughts on that?

    The other question is not as important. What color should i get. I am leaning toward black on black and red with a black top. Anyone with regrets on there finial decions.

    There are almost to many choices?
  • markjennmarkjenn Member Posts: 1,142
    micweb, the Mini's maintenance schedule is a repeating sequence of: oil chg, minor inspection, oil chg, major inspection, with about 10K-12K oil change intervals, depending on what the service reminder system says.

    The oil changes are basically oil/filter and microfilter. The minor inspections are the oil change stuff plus a CVT tranny fluid change (if equipped) and a bunch of checks. The major inspections add an air filter change and a poly v-belt change. In addition, plugs and O2 sensor are changed at 100K.

    Everything else is calendar time: brake fluid every 2 years, and coolant every four. All pretty typical of today's cars.

    fever, value is subjective, but in my mind the extra $3400 for the MCS over the MC is a good value, netting you 45% more power, the six-speed, better wheels/tires, and a lot of misc improved bits. OTOH, the luxury options seem like poor values to me, especially things like the trip computer, automatic climate control, etc. But again, it's all subjective.

    Get the color you like best and ignore what others are getting - this is something to go with your gut. Having said that, black is a tough, tough color for maintenance and heat, so be careful here - if you're never owned a black car before, you have no idea what a PITA they are. Personally, I think Mercedes look good in black and a cute car like the Mini looks best in cute colors that suit its personality. But again, you're buying the car, so get what you like. I went with EB.

    - Mark
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,669
    Yellow, Silver, Red (be aware red is not high viz after dark) so you can be better seen.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • minihopefulminihopeful Member Posts: 14
    Hmmm...good point, Andy. With the MINI being so small, it's not easily seen by the other drivers on the road in broad daylight, much less at night. I had my heart set on Indi Blue with black roof, but now I might have to reconsider the night visibility angle.

    Charlie
  • feverfever Member Posts: 6
    I have put self in a situation. I don't know if i can really afford the S but drove on before i drove the standard. Now I only want the S it has all the power the car needs.
  • micwebmicweb Member Posts: 1,617
    On raw numbers, ignoring dealer markup, the "S" is an incredible deal. You get so much content for the difference in price. By the time I added a few options to the base Cooper I ordered, I had eaten up part of the cost premium of the "S". (For example, DSC). However, "S"'s are in high demand and the dealer premiums on the "S" are much greater than on the base Cooper.

    Then there is insurance to consider, and theft risk (which I think is low these days, given the security system in the "S" and the fact that tuners would want a "works" more than a base "S").

    Basically I think the Base handling is fine, power is good (not great) with the stick, and as a "keeper" car I think the Base could well be sturdier with lower repair costs. So I am going with the Base.
  • markjennmarkjenn Member Posts: 1,142
    Unless you absolutely can't stand buying a car from a distant dealer, there is absolutely no reason to pay a penny over MSRP in today's market. There are lots of dealers across the country with open ordering spots on their books and willing to go MSRP. (As of today, I'd be sure to get in the front end of the 2005s as they start with July production. The changes aren't big for the MCS but there are a lot of detail improvements, a change in gearing, and a bump of 7-hp to 170.)

    A base 2005 MCS for about $21K is an incredible value in my book.

    - Mark
  • feverfever Member Posts: 6
    you make a good point on the repair costs. How long did they say it was going to take on the one you ordered. Is it going to be an 05. I wa told if i ordered on it would be an 05?
  • micwebmicweb Member Posts: 1,617
    Prices are still pretty stiff in the Bay Area, with most dealers expecting you to order and pay $1000 over sticker. East Bay MINI was pretty easy to work with, they ordered it for MSRP for me but with a six month wait, since they are a popular dealer to order from and are backlogged. One dealer in Sacramento said they could order one for me, it would only be a couple of months, and I could place the order by phone, no $1000 good faith deposit required, but $1k would be tacked onto the stick. So, to put more money in the car and less into the dealer, I went with East Bay MINI.

    I think they treated me pretty well in a certain sense: I ordered a Base model with almost no extras. Every car they order reduces their allotment, so I was expecting moans and groans at my "slim profit margin" order. But I sensed none of that.

    I totally agree the "S" is a steal at the "base package price." From the same perspective, I think the Base Model is a great buy if you get it with no options - compared to a Golf, Mazda3 etc., it has a lot of "uniqueness" for a pretty low price. I just added three options, all pretty decent: 3 spoke steering to get the cruise control - just $350 (expensive for a fancy wheel, but not when you think about the included radio controls and cruise control); a rear spoiler to dress up the car a little ($150); and DSC...I was thinking of just going with the CBC (which I could have used years ago when I braked in the rain while changing lanes, to avoid hitting someone coming in from the other side, and spun out as a result), but I really believe stability control will be the coming rage, and for $495 will not only make the car safer for me (and possibly feasible to drive on otherwise "chain controlled" mountain roads, in a pinch) but will enhance resale.

    I chose Pepper White, to duck the $500 tariff on metallic colors (though I saw a great looking silver body, black hat this weekend), and will rethink this closer to order confirmation time (two months before expected delivery, when they actually make the car).

    I'll get this car sometime in November, which gives the assembly line plenty of time to adjust to the model year changes.

    If I get it sooner, that means the market is softening...I have a suspicion, though it was never mentioned, that if you order a more highly optioned vehicle, you may get "ordering priority." But that is just the way I would do it, if I were the dealer... I would try to hold back some slots for customers ordering the "works".
  • ozone1ozone1 Member Posts: 87
    Congratulations on your purchase! The Pepper white was my 2nd choice, but I ended up going with Chili Red. You can't really go wrong with the colors available. There seems to be one or more that fits everybody. Looks like there are some great new features on the 2005. The arm rest has always bugged me too, I usually end up just resting my right elbow on the window sill. I also noticed they're putting in a bigger rearview mirror, very cool. As for the oil changes...everyone initially gets taken aback by the long intervals. It's really a comfort level issue, I don't have a problem with going with what BMW recommends. Others would rather change it every 5k or 6k miles. There is no wrong answer. Finally, I did opt for the extended service, mainly because it covers brakes. I drive the car hard enough that I know I'm going to need replacements in less than 4 years (or 50,000 miles). Those brakes are pricey. I've been very happy with the performance of the tires on my 15" rims and the ride is definitely better. Some people like the look of the bigger rims, another personal choice, no right or wrong answer. Finally, I don't believe that all US cars have the spare tire, in fact I'm almost positive the MCS' with the runflats don't have a spare. Doesn't matter since you bought the MC, but just a FYI. Again, congratulations on your purchase.
  • markjennmarkjenn Member Posts: 1,142
    Micweb, you did your homework and are getting a great car - enjoy. There is not a day that goes by when I don't feel good about this car. The nimbleness, the extra space in the garage, the joy of driving, the feeling that you're owning a "less is more" car - all these things add up to a great experience. I don't miss my "boat" (a Lexus) at all. (Of course, I've got the family SUV to drive when snow flys or I need to make a Costco run - as an "only car" the compromises of such a small car might be more apparent.)

    I also agree with ozone's comments to the letter.

    Finally, the MCS doesn't have a spare. I think the 16 and 17 inch wheels cars all have runflats with no spare.

    I plan on ditching my 17 runflats as soon as they wear out. I probably should have done it when the car was new, but it was hard to get $50 trade-in for brand new tires that cost $150 new. Hopefully the Pirellis will wear quickly.

    - Mark
  • micwebmicweb Member Posts: 1,617
  • bikerider1bikerider1 Member Posts: 12
    Cooper S definately. Windsheild problems have been addressed with the 2004 models. I've had no problems with the 17" run flats, but if you live in an area with potholes, go for the 16" wheels and tires. I live in Las Vegas and a/c is good, I've not had to put it on high as yet, even with 95 degree temps. No rattling on my car with 5000 miles, I do know that the rattling problems were mainly the hatch, again on earlier models and was fixable by adjusting the latch. The Mazda 3 does not have the Cooper "pedigree". We motor, they drive!
  • feverfever Member Posts: 6
    I am about to order mine. I am getting a real base S Packages don't interest me. Does anyone have a feeling on DSC is it worth the money or should i forget about it.

    Also if any has comments about So Cali Dealers I would love to hear them.

    thx
  • ozone1ozone1 Member Posts: 87
    What price are they quoting you? I wrestled with getting the DSC option, but decided against it. I've never had the option on any previous sports car and I'm still alive. Then again, I've heard stories from drivers who have said it has saved their life. The only real negative I can think of is it may turn on when you don't want it to, and it will under certain driving conditions. A couple of drivers I know have the option, but have it turned off all the time because of that.
  • micwebmicweb Member Posts: 1,617
    I did a web search, and the only actual study was a Finnish research paper.

    The gist of it was:

    ABS brakes haven't been as helpful in accident avoidance as originally expected (this was a remark in passing). In fact, the safety improvement due to ABS brakes is close to 0% according to this study. (Now, it isn't clear to me personally whether ABS brakes really don't help, or people let off the brake pedal when they activate and start pulsing, thereby eliminating the benefit of the ABS. One knowledgeable dealer actually told me that ABS would allow me to safely pump the brakes - when the manual says, stand on them and don't get off them. I personally think ABS is excellent if you overcome the "get off the pedal" reaction when you feel the pulsation, and the bad stats are due to inappropriate driver reactions.)

    As for DSC, the Finnish author calculated a 25% safety enhancement on dry pavement, and up to a 60% safety enhancement on slick pavement - the biggest benefit being with snow and ice. He was comparing accident stats, in certain scenarios, involving cars with and without DSC.

    A columnist in this month's Road and Track tested a new Toyota enhanced DSC in Tokyo, on a tile floor slicked with water. This enhanced system could input slight steeing corrections as well as modulate the throttle and selectively apply the brakes (the MINI and other current systems don't touch the steeting). The writer was very impressed with the system - he could drive aggressively (as aggressively as the throttle control would let him) but when deactivated he was spinning all over the place.

    I think whether DSC will benefit you depends on how aggressively you drive. If you are at the limit and hit black ice in a curve, I doubt it. If a spouse hits an offramp curve a little too fast, or if there is rain, I think the benefits are enormous. I think all of us (us hard drivers) will benefit from it if we drive "normally" hard and don't count on the DSC and drive "extra" hard. In other words, if you have ABS do you feel safer tailgating? If you have DSC will you drive more sloppily?

    For $500 it is almost a no-brainer.
  • micwebmicweb Member Posts: 1,617
    when the dealer told me to take a u-turn real aggressively to activate the DSC on a test drive MINI. I just couldn't drive it to the point where it would be "out of control" as my instincts warned me.

    I did drive a DSC'd Chrysler 300 on their pylon test drive course much more aggressively (would only hit cones) and the car was wallowing like a big boat, but it never fish tailed or skidded. Maybe the DSC was activating, maybe not, but if activating it was completely transparent.
  • ozone1ozone1 Member Posts: 87
    What price are they quoting you? I wrestled with getting the DSC option, but decided against it. I've never had the option on any previous sports car and I'm still alive. Then again, I've heard stories from drivers who have said it has saved their life. The only real negative I can think of is it may turn on when you don't want it to, and it will under certain driving conditions. A couple of drivers I know have the option, but have it turned off all the time because of that.
  • markjennmarkjenn Member Posts: 1,142
    I don't think there is any clear-cut answer on DSC. An unskilled driver who often presses a little in slick conditions - yes, by all means! But for someone who has had skid training and knows when to back off for conditions - probably marginal.

    The last two cars I've owned (including my Mini) have had it, but I've never engaged it unintentionally in tens of thousands of miles of driving. That doesn't mean, however, that a situation couldn't have arisen where it would have saved my bacon. It's a percentage risk thing coupled with one's sensitivity to the cost.

    - Mark
  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Member Posts: 2,228
    Which 2 cars are you getting rid of to get the Mini and which ones are you keeping? You guys won't believe how many cars micweb has gone through in the last year! He has to be the king of avoiding negative equity.
  • jaatbenijaatbeni Member Posts: 2
    I am seriously considering buying a Mini Cooper S... the only debate being whether to wait for the 2005 or go with the 2004. How much of a difference is there between the two cars... is it really worth waiting 4-5 months for it vs the 8 odd weeks for the 2004? Also, with the dollar - euro rate looking increasingly unfavorable, it is likely to be more expensive. Any ideas on how much more its going to cost?
  • markjennmarkjenn Member Posts: 1,142
    The best information on the 2005s is at:

    www.motoringfile.com

    I believe the price increase is expected to be about $500.

    If I were buying now, yes, I'd wait. A year further down the production line, slightly more hp, re-geared tranny, more options to choose from, numerous detail improvements, and a year's less depreciation if you trade in a couple years ... well worth $500.

    - Mark
  • jaatbenijaatbeni Member Posts: 2
    I guess waiting is the right answer, though after a few test drives my heart was set on getting one this summer. I had even put down a deposit but I canceled it. :-( Its like being caught between the devil and the deep blue sea...

    Now I might as well wait and order one in Dec 2004 - Jan 2005, when the production of the new model is stabilized. Also can option it with the Limited Slip Diff... and you are right, when I wish to sell, a 2005 will be more value than a 2004. Phew...

    Not that I need a car... I live in the city and walk to work. Its just that I WANTED a MINI!
This discussion has been closed.