I have an early 2005 and had a problem with the drive by wire sensor causing the car to go into reduced power mode. But the part was replaced under warranty and I have had no problems since. These cars are awesome!
I assume this price was after the $2500 rebate? Sounds like a great deal to me, given my experience. The deal I have in the works is for a more expensive MSRP, but after taking that out of the equation, it sounds like your deal, at 27600, is still about $200 better than my deal.
I would really be interested to know if he would accept an even lower offer, or if "we" have hit bottom. My dealer won't budge at this point any lower. (Maybe I can negotiate to get "more" for the deal, like one of those really nice GTO jackets? ) Of course, a dealer may decide to take a loss just to move it, rather than paying interest on it month after month. But, some won't do that (we know of a very few 2004's that remain on dealers' lots). What area of the country do you live in? It's been written before in this forum that dealers in the northeast, southest, arizona, and calif won't go as low as elsewhere because GTO's are selling well in those areas.
New issue of Motor Trend March 2006."The next -generation GTO is definitely dead". Page 18. GM rear-drive program will be the CAMARO with LS-2 or big LS-7 Corvette engines..BY BY "little gto " hello "she real fine my 409". Had fun and enjoy my 05 GTO . A real machine...Probably be in the "home" when the Camaro comes out--- or in a Dodge Hemi-Challanger, since my lease runs out 2007. So guys buy yours now and enjoy. There will not be anymore.Have to look more differnt "car music".
Thanks for the input, folks! I went to a stealershi...er...dealership today and finally got to drive an '05. I literally exclaimed "holy sh*t!" during the test drive, so much for my playing hard-to-get. The car was a demo that the boss had been driving for 5k miles, but they wanted more than the last '05 I looked at with 0 miles on it! :surprise: They wanted nothing to do with my '05 Civic Hybrid trade in (the anti-GTO ), and were just as happy to keep their year-old demo car...weird!
Just a few months ago they said the Camaro was dead and would never see the light of day again. I wouldn't bet on anything Motor Trend (or any of the other consumer mags) prints. Anything that hits the newstand today was written at least two months ago. Everything I've read lately hints that GM will make a decision in June on the fate of any future GTO replacement... whether it's called GTO or not.
Lots o' hot air. I doubt very much that GM will put an LS-2, LS-7 or any high horsepower premium V8 in anything that lists south of $44K again. Doesn't mean they won't build something like the Camaro. Just means that a more pedestrian V8, possibly from the truck line, will be used or perhaps even a supercharged/turbo V6. If they do build the Camaro expect a base V6 model to list for under $20K to get the volume up to make the business case.
Well, we more or less know there will be a 2008 GTO, built by Holden. We don't know if it will have the displacement-on-demand technology that the LS2 in the Camaro concept car had. (My guess is "yes". If not for 2008, then for 2009 or so. They need it to meet CAFE.)
With no plans to build the Zeta platform in the US, I'd say any Buick or Chevy RWD mid-size is dead, unfortunately.
Not sure about Camaro. Rumors are still for base model with V6, Z28-type model with LS2 with displacement-on-demand.
I, for one, would like displacement-on-demand in today's GTO. I'm not waiting for the 2008 or 2009 model, because I really don't care for the styling of the concept images we've seen in this forum.
Remind you more of the stripes on the old Chevelle SS's, or on the 1997 Camaro 30th Anniv Edition (especially with the stripes over the roof)?
I think they dress up the hood scoops some. But, I'll bet they are vinyl decals instead of paint, which means they will dry out and crack over time (happened with my factory-installed orange stripes on the 1997 Camaro Z28 30th Anniv Edition).
Yes and no. Only if they are real painted on stripes. The vinyl ones look cheap and like you said don't last that long. I had them on a GTP once. They last only about 2 yrs before needing replacement.
I think it's been 5 months now (?) ever since I reported the problem to the dealer (my 2004 seat was stuck forward) and I have been back many times and they haven't fixed it yet. It takes months to get the parts in (I've had a few other interior trim issues as well) and they always find out that wrong parts were ordered after keeping me and my car there for a couple of hours. It's beyond my comprehension what the dealer is doing and I'm glad I'll be turning my GTO in this December. I don't think anything will be fixed by then and I'll let them worry about it. I kicked my seat a few times when the dealer was too lazy to put the plastic side cover back on and it's moving now though a bit spotty. If I had to wait for the 'holy grail' rail assembly unit all this time my chin would permanently be attached to the knees by now. If I had to pay more than my current $124/month for this lease then I'd REALLY be ticked off and would probably start looking into GA's Lemon Law. But the engine alone is worth a hundred bucks and some change, so I'm happy ;-) Good luck!
If GM does bring a holden based GTO back to the US pricing would be interesting. According to info in forum the holden Monaro lists for somewhere north of $40K U.S. . Given that I purchased my '05 for well under the $33K list here, and that some seem to make deals for less, and the cost of shipping from Australia, its doubtful that GM made much, if anything on this car. Note that I'm talking GM, not dealers which are not directly part of GM.
This is why I would be amazed if GM offered a Z28 or SS Camaro with the LS2 since they would need to list it at a similar price as the Mustang GT, around $26K. True you're not likely to buy one for that price but still, you're talking a high-end, low volume engine used only in a few places; the 'vette and possibly some caddies in the near future. (The SSR being dead meat). The engine used in the mustang is a much higher volume unit (both the 4.6 and blown 5.4 in the shelby).
If I remember correctly the LS2 is only built in the US and so needs to be crated and sent to Holden to be installed thus adding more to the bottom line costs. Ultimately this is why I believe that the LS2 is unlikely for the Camaro and why I think IF the GTO returns (and thats a mighty big IF) it will either be priced above $40K or will not have the LS2 and will also be de-contented to make the price fall more in the $30K range and still be profitable.
The entry level Monaro had the supercharged V6 and went for the equivalent of $35k American. The Holden Monaro 5.7 V8 goes for the equivalent of about $45k USA in Austraila. The 6.0 V8 was only used in the highest end HSV monaro's only. But they also have a lot of options to chose from we don't here. Sunroof, side-airbags, dual zone digital auto climate control, rear backup parking assist sensors, navigation, Blue-tooth phone kit, auto dimming rear view mirror, extra gauges in a pod above the vent-controls, etc.
The Monaro has a longer warranty then our GTO does. 3yr 100 kilometer warranty. Here that is 3yr 62k miles. Nice!
I'm having a hard time understanding you: are you saying that $26,000 is too expensive for a 400-hp Camaro Z28? If so, I think you need a reality check. Besides, I think the Gen III LS2 is a lame duck anyway. Gen IV V8's are just now starting to come on-line (these have cylinder cut-off and variable valve timing capabilities). The 6.2 Gen IV will probably be the primary performance engine for the immediate future at GM (going in the Escalade as standard; probably into the Vette soon) and there is a 5.3 version coming as well (I believe a variant of this, sans VVT is in the 2006 Impala SS). If GTO returns in 2008 it would probably have the 6.2 and either 6-speed manual or the new 6L80E six-speed auto, since this is the combination going into the all-new 2007 Holden Commodore, on which the next Monaro/GTO could be based (just like the current models).
"Besides, I think the Gen III LS2 is a lame duck anyway."
The LS2 is NOT a Gen III, it's a Gen IV. How is it a lame duck? 400hp engine that turns in nearly 30mpg highway in the Vette, same or better then most 200+HP V6 cars. Even in my GTO the LS2 turns in 26+mpg highway. DOD gives about an 8% increase in the trucks in mpg from GM.
No, I'm saying that in order to compete with the Mustang the Camaro would need to be priced such that a Z-28 would list near the base price for a Mustang GT, which is in the $26K range. Can the GENIV LS2 meet these cost goals given the VVT and all aluminum construction? Its one thing to stick this motor in a Escalade or Vette which reach $60K+ price ranges. It quite another to use it in a vehicle with less exepensive cost goals.
Of course you could just charge $40K for a Camaro and hope someone buys it.
BTW: I was unaware a 5.3 all aluminum variant of the GENIV was under condsideration. The current 5.3 is not the same family as the current 6.0 and I beleive is a version of the Northstar but I could be wrong.
As was pointed out by a previous poster, the current GTO does not carry the same options as the holden. Even so, its still hard to beleive they could ship the engine to Austrailia, install in the car, ship the whole thing back still pretty decently equipped, and sell for under $30K and still make money.
By lame duck, I did not mean it wasn't worthy, just that it is going to be replaced pretty quickly. Geez, don't take it personally. I just meant that it is going to be replaced by the DoD (or variable displacement, or whatever they're calling it today) and VVT version. And it won't be called LS2, but something else.
Well, compare it to the engine in the Mustang GT, which is a overhead cam design. I would wager (but don't know for a fact) that the pushrod LSx engines are significantly less expensive than the Ford OHC V8s. Even after adding in the VVT and DoD. In fact, I believe using pushrod engines allows a significant cost advantage for GM in their performance cars. And an all-aluminum GENIV 5.3 is currently installed in the Impala SS and Grand Prix GXP. This 5.3 is an OHV engine, not even remotely related to the Northstar, which is an OHC design. This is one reason why the full-sized Impala SS can be priced about the same as the smaller Mustang GT. Main cost disadvantage I see for Camaro is the independent rear suspension. Mustang uses old solid axle, which saves them hundreds of dollars per car. But with the less expensive OHV engines, perhaps this would cancel out that cost disadvantage.
Guys,Guys, Guys, what is all this bickering about the GTO. General Motors cannot afford 2 performance or 3 {corvette} vehicles. A Camaro and GTO ,no way, this is not the 60s. If Pontiac ever does bring out a 3rd GTO, it will be so many years,that us "guys" that remember them will probably be in the home racing wheelchairs or have trouble remembering. The "younger" guys only know about Japanese lawnmotors with big tail wings. So the clientile will be gone. It is going to be the CAMARO or nothing at all.
I just got the CAGS shift eliminator for my 05, but the installation calls for a jack or a lift ... is this necessary? How hard is the install? I'm a bit intimidated by pulling out the fuses and this and that... can anyone help? Has anyone installed it? thanks for your patience with my ignorance...
Actually not bickering. Just opinion. And I kinda agree with you, there isn't enough market to support both the Camaro and GTO.
Point I was trying to make is can GM produce a Camaro with an LS2 and compete on price with the Mustang? Or will you end up with a go fast motor and a chevette interior?
With the GTO based on the Holden they could have the motor, the interior, all the gadgets price it at $42K call it a Cadillac and still make money. With the LS2 they'd have to get volume up to 150K+ per year (remember Ford uses the same 4.6/5.4L V8 everywhere) to get the price down to something reasonable for a Camaro or have the base price north of $30K.
Personally I vote for the GTO. At least the Aussies still know how to build a car.
Yes a jack or lift IS necessary, you or someone else installing it have to be under the car / transmission. I installed mine using drive-on ramps, took me 10 to 20 minutes, it is not hard at all, simply follow the instructions. If you are that worried about it, talk nicely to the service manager and have your local dealer put it on during an oil change.
Doesn't the 4.8/5.3/6.0 used in GM's trucks count? I'm assuming thats how you attribute Ford using their 4.6/5.4 "everywhere," by counting their trucks. How many cars does Ford use the 4.6/5.4 in? Mustang, Crown Vic, Grand Marquis, Lincoln Town Car and ??? No offense, just that GM produces several hundred thousand OHV V-8's each year that are significantly cheaper to produce than Fords OHC's. Your economy of numbers doesn't fit here. And I think there is plenty of room for three performance vehicles in GM's lineup. In fact, I'd say it's darn near a requirement to fill the market they are trying (or should be anyway) to address. Camaro on low-end, GTO in the middle and Corvette at the top, with a bit of overlap in pricing depending on option levels. In other words, a fully optioned Camaro SS might cost a bit more than a stripped, base GTO, etc.
I can't remember off the top of my head but isn't the Vortec line used in trucks a cast iron block? I was pretty certain that the only commonality between the LS2 and Vortec was the bore centers and otherwise they were substantially different and that the LS2 was limited to the Vette, SSR and GTO. I know a lot of folks refer to all of these a GENIII/GENIV as if they were substantially the same except for the aluminum block but I think they are different and carry significantly different costs.
I know that Ford uses the same 4.6L engine in both trucks and cars and the main difference is in tuning (exhaust, intake and maybe cam profile) but otherwise are identical.
There is an aluminum 5.3 that is available in trucks. Besides, we're talking about the Gen IV engines, which will be used in the new GMT900 line of trucks just now hitting the market (Tahoe and Suburban, then Avalanche and eventually Silverado, etc.) The Gen IV V8s will also be used in Holden vehicles built and sold in Australia. My point (by now surely lost) is that there are millions of these engines produced, they share the same basic engineering and design, and therefore can all be produced in the same facility and on the same line.
I had thought that the LS2 (and LS7 is it?) were premium exclusive limited production engines thus justifying premium pricing in something like the Vette or high-end Cadillacs. Apparently they've become just another run of the mill engine with some performance tuning like the 4.6L or blown 5.4 in the mustang. In that case it should meet the cost goals of a $26K base list on a Z-28 Camaro and GM should be able to make money.
I can't remember off the top of my head but isn't the Vortec line used in trucks a cast iron block?
Chevy uses both in 5.3litre for '06 silverado. A 295 hp cast iron like in my truck and same diplacement in aluminum block putting out, I thinking, 315 - 325 hp same torque,+/- 5lbft..
Hey, is there still any talk at GM Headquarters of making a Buick covertible based on the next Pontiac Grand Prix platform or the Holden. A couple of years ago at the auto show a Buick Velite concept was shown. That car was really nice!
I believe it is referred to as a CAGS eliminator (Computer Aided Gear Selector). 6 speed manual cars have a "skip shift" feature which forces the transmission to go from 1st to 4th instead of into 2nd gear to help with fuel economy, this only occurs when certain parameters are met (throttle position, speed, etc.) and can be extremely annoying, this part bypasses the "skip shift" feature and allows the driver to shift normally.....Mark.
GM just announced (through Automotive News) February 21/06 that the GTO is ending production. GM notified Pontiac dealers Monday that they cannot financially engineer a 2007 model. The current GTO will be available through dealers until the end of September........check it out!
Not too shocking since GM said all along that this car would only be a 3 yr project here, 2004-2006. If there were to be a 2007 it would be an all new car on an all new chassis.
“There are some changes in the federal regulatory standards. One is an airbag deployment standard that would require some very expensive re-engineering of the car,” says Jim Hopson, Pontiac spokesman. “Since the architecture of this car is being phased out around the world it’s not economically feasible to continue this car.”
thanks for the information. still not sure if i want a stick or auto. like the better gas milage, but hate to sit in traffic shifting, shifting, etc. etc.
There is probably a lot of truth in what the Pontiac spokesman said. I really like the GTO the only real problem it had was the price, it was just priced out of reach of the people who would have wanted it. This happens a lot with GM cars, They will blame the slow sales on the lack of "retro" design cues or the bland styling, but in truth, a car with the GTO's impressive performance credentials will sell itself if the price is right. For the GTO the "right" price would have been the low to mid 20's that's can be 5 to 7 thousand dollars lower than it is priced. As for the retro styling, that may have helped it, but lets face it the original GTO is pretty bland looking as it was. And retro styling alone doesn't sell cars, look at the Thunderbird do they even make that anymore??? It's a beautiful car but , the price was too high and it just never really took off like one would have hoped. I don't think retro styling alone would have helped the GTO, They really needed to work on the price. The Mustang is retro styled but it's also AFFORDABLE. you can actually get a V8 powered Mustang for nearly $5,000 less than a V8 GTO.
The GTO was not produced for the masses. It was made for Pontiac enthusiasts who wanted performance. 400 hp Corvette engine with large wheels and a sporty interior. If a 3.9 V6 was offered with 16" wheels/tires then you could have probably got one for mid 20s. The Mustang that is $5,000 less did not have a 400 hp engine.
It is interesting for me that people found it expensive. They don't seem to find a Suburu expensive or an Infiniti G35. I was in Australia recently and the base model price was US$45k and with the 6.0 L LS2 US$60k (with some additional equipment). When I compare the stats I have a V8 coupe as fast as an Aston Martin. In the US we are lucky our cars are so cheap. Before I bought the GTO I sat in a Mustang. They are worlds apart in the interior. I still think it is great value.
drove a 2006 last night. stick. very smooth shifter, much smoother than the 2004. and of course, better milage. i did experience the shift skipper. at very slow acceleration, it forced me to go to 3rd from 1st. a little light went on on the dash. i little annoying but with all that torque, skipping 3rd could be easy. very nice dash, great seats, good radio, but the trunk?
still waiting for the spring to see if better deals come along.
Subarus and G35s are a lot more practical, you see them everywhere, and are heavily advertised. No one knows GTO is made in Australia, and if they do, how's that different from Korea or Slovakia for that matter. It's all about perception and Pontiacs are not exactly known for their residuals and reliability. Knowing it’s an Aussie car can even be a deterrent for an average Pontiac Sunfire or GrandAm buyer can't afford to drop +$30K on a two-door car with a big engine. The ones who can afford to will mostly choose BMW or Infinity because those are sophisticated but also familiar brands with great reputations and will get their friends' stamp of approval... That's the truth and that's why GTOs sell at 10K units/year to a unique group of buyers in-the-know.
If you want to see expensive cars, check out some countries in Europe, especially Denmark - Australia pales in comparison. For an average American who thinks Mexico is to the North (45%), and New York is our capital (30%), knowing what them foreigners pay is meaningless ;-) We don't have an extensive social support network and our healthcare is not free, so our stuff can and should be cheaper.
I'm not happy with Pontiac's awful service and parts availability to say the least but if there are some nice rebates and GM card promotions in December I will go for another GTO. Otherwise, it's a Honda Pilot or Mazda6 station wagon for me... Much more practical and I won't have to negotiate with my wife :-)
I'm going to assume that Subaru is the WRX Sti. Even so, I wouldn't put a G35 on the same level.
I beleive the Commodor/Monaro is a more upscale line. As someone pointed out to me the Monaro in Australia is very well optioned. Even in US trim its still pretty well outfitted. Some content was probably not provided in order to keep the price down. Still, I suspect GM lost money on the car.
As to the GTO only selling 10K/yr this is more due to the absolute dis-interest (and disarray) at GM more than anything else. When Ford announced the new Mustang I think GM felt they had to do something for a short time. Bob Lutz led the effort but the only thing available was the Holden that could come close to the expected price of the Mustang. GM had no other rear drive platform in NA (and still doesn't) that would have been cost effective.
It seems that the GTO was only meant to fill a gap until some kind of replacement could be developed. Now its ending and there is no replacement except on the far horizon. GM is still in disarray, maybe even more so now. And they are still appear to be confused on if/when/what the rear-drive/front-drive model mix is really going to be. Just that the answer is somewhere over the rainbow.
does the gto have dual stage air bags. it seems unlikly that gm would pull the standard dual stage monaro air bags and install single stage units. can anyone confirm that the gto's air bags are dual stage. this would be appreciated. thanks.
Went out and test drove a black GTO 6 speed with the 18" wheels. I had forgotten what it's like to drive something with torque. The shift thingy didn't bother me as much as I thought it would, as I quickly learned to skip the gears, and use the termendous torque. The salesman told me that I was one of the best gear changer he had taken out in the car, and did I want to buy the car. I told him that after I watched him drive the left side though some holly bushes at the dealership, and that it had 18" wheels, I didn't want this car. We went inside, and I told him I wanted a Cyclone Grey, 6 speed, 17" wheels. He sputtered, and told me that he wasn't sure he could come up with one. I said okay, I would find one on my own. About 3 hours later, he calls me at work, tells me he found one, and then gave me the OLD MSRP, and then has the balls to offer me the car at 500 below the old MSRP. I decline, come home from work, and find 4 cars in the SE optioned out the way I want. I call the internet saleman the next day, who turns out to be an old friend from 15 years ago. I tell him what I know, and he told me he would get back to me. He calls back, and offers me the car for 900 above invoice. I counter with 400, and we finally agree to 600 above invoice. Maybe not the best deal in the world, but given the fact that the cars are rare as hens teeth( I have only seen 6 on the road in 2 years, and I drive for a living), I am happy. Why the GTO? Because I am a Pontiac man 1st of all. Then, I have always liked sleepers. If you take a quick glance at the GTO, it looks just like just about any old econobox out there, until you either A) See the hood scoops coming, or See the GTO on the bumper going away. This also makes it tough for the highway patrol to single you out when you trip the radar gun.
Trust me, the highway patrol can single you out just fine.
As for the wheels, I have 18's for the summer and 17's for the winter with Blizzaks. Except for having to change wheels twice a year it works out fine. I've been thinking of swapping out the P235/18's for P245/18's but am concerned with the rubbing problem thats been reported. Anyone out there have any experience with P245's on the 18" wheels?
Comments
I assume this price was after the $2500 rebate?
Sounds like a great deal to me, given my experience. The deal I have in the works is for a more expensive MSRP, but after taking that out of the equation, it sounds like your deal, at 27600, is still about $200 better than my deal.
I would really be interested to know if he would accept an even lower offer, or if "we" have hit bottom. My dealer won't budge at this point any lower. (Maybe I can negotiate to get "more" for the deal, like one of those really nice GTO jackets?
http://www.motortrend.com/future/spied/112_0508_future_gm/index.html
With no plans to build the Zeta platform in the US, I'd say any Buick or Chevy RWD mid-size is dead, unfortunately.
Not sure about Camaro. Rumors are still for base model with V6, Z28-type model with LS2 with displacement-on-demand.
I, for one, would like displacement-on-demand in today's GTO. I'm not waiting for the 2008 or 2009 model, because I really don't care for the styling of the concept images we've seen in this forum.
I think they dress up the hood scoops some. But, I'll bet they are vinyl decals instead of paint, which means they will dry out and crack over time (happened with my factory-installed orange stripes on the 1997 Camaro Z28 30th Anniv Edition).
This is why I would be amazed if GM offered a Z28 or SS Camaro with the LS2 since they would need to list it at a similar price as the Mustang GT, around $26K. True you're not likely to buy one for that price but still, you're talking a high-end, low volume engine used only in a few places; the 'vette and possibly some caddies in the near future. (The SSR being dead meat). The engine used in the mustang is a much higher volume unit (both the 4.6 and blown 5.4 in the shelby).
If I remember correctly the LS2 is only built in the US and so needs to be crated and sent to Holden to be installed thus adding more to the bottom line costs. Ultimately this is why I believe that the LS2 is unlikely for the Camaro and why I think IF the GTO returns (and thats a mighty big IF) it will either be priced above $40K or will not have the LS2 and will also be de-contented to make the price fall more in the $30K range and still be profitable.
The Monaro has a longer warranty then our GTO does. 3yr 100 kilometer warranty. Here that is 3yr 62k miles. Nice!
Besides, I think the Gen III LS2 is a lame duck anyway. Gen IV V8's are just now starting to come on-line (these have cylinder cut-off and variable valve timing capabilities). The 6.2 Gen IV will probably be the primary performance engine for the immediate future at GM (going in the Escalade as standard; probably into the Vette soon) and there is a 5.3 version coming as well (I believe a variant of this, sans VVT is in the 2006 Impala SS). If GTO returns in 2008 it would probably have the 6.2 and either 6-speed manual or the new 6L80E six-speed auto, since this is the combination going into the all-new 2007 Holden Commodore, on which the next Monaro/GTO could be based (just like the current models).
The LS2 is NOT a Gen III, it's a Gen IV. How is it a lame duck? 400hp engine that turns in nearly 30mpg highway in the Vette, same or better then most 200+HP V6 cars. Even in my GTO the LS2 turns in 26+mpg highway. DOD gives about an 8% increase in the trucks in mpg from GM.
Of course you could just charge $40K for a Camaro and hope someone buys it.
BTW: I was unaware a 5.3 all aluminum variant of the GENIV was under condsideration. The current 5.3 is not the same family as the current 6.0 and I beleive is a version of the Northstar but I could be wrong.
As was pointed out by a previous poster, the current GTO does not carry the same options as the holden. Even so, its still hard to beleive they could ship the engine to Austrailia, install in the car, ship the whole thing back still pretty decently equipped, and sell for under $30K and still make money.
And an all-aluminum GENIV 5.3 is currently installed in the Impala SS and Grand Prix GXP. This 5.3 is an OHV engine, not even remotely related to the Northstar, which is an OHC design. This is one reason why the full-sized Impala SS can be priced about the same as the smaller Mustang GT.
Main cost disadvantage I see for Camaro is the independent rear suspension. Mustang uses old solid axle, which saves them hundreds of dollars per car. But with the less expensive OHV engines, perhaps this would cancel out that cost disadvantage.
What goes our "Forum Guru Robert" say????
Point I was trying to make is can GM produce a Camaro with an LS2 and compete on price with the Mustang? Or will you end up with a go fast motor and a chevette interior?
With the GTO based on the Holden they could have the motor, the interior, all the gadgets price it at $42K call it a Cadillac and still make money. With the LS2 they'd have to get volume up to 150K+ per year (remember Ford uses the same 4.6/5.4L V8 everywhere) to get the price down to something reasonable for a Camaro or have the base price north of $30K.
Personally I vote for the GTO. At least the Aussies still know how to build a car.
Yes, even the GTO website says so....
I guess the LS2 is only used in 4 vehicles now? The GTO, the 'vette, the SSR, and the TrailBlazer SS...
And I think there is plenty of room for three performance vehicles in GM's lineup. In fact, I'd say it's darn near a requirement to fill the market they are trying (or should be anyway) to address. Camaro on low-end, GTO in the middle and Corvette at the top, with a bit of overlap in pricing depending on option levels. In other words, a fully optioned Camaro SS might cost a bit more than a stripped, base GTO, etc.
I know that Ford uses the same 4.6L engine in both trucks and cars and the main difference is in tuning (exhaust, intake and maybe cam profile) but otherwise are identical.
I had thought that the LS2 (and LS7 is it?) were premium exclusive limited production engines thus justifying premium pricing in something like the Vette or high-end Cadillacs. Apparently they've become just another run of the mill engine with some performance tuning like the 4.6L or blown 5.4 in the mustang. In that case it should meet the cost goals of a $26K base list on a Z-28 Camaro and GM should be able to make money.
Chevy uses both in 5.3litre for '06 silverado. A 295 hp cast iron like in my truck and same diplacement in aluminum block putting out, I thinking, 315 - 325 hp same torque,+/- 5lbft..
“There are some changes in the federal regulatory standards. One is an airbag deployment standard that would require some very expensive re-engineering of the car,” says Jim Hopson, Pontiac spokesman. “Since the architecture of this car is being phased out around the world it’s not economically feasible to continue this car.”
very nice dash, great seats, good radio, but the trunk?
still waiting for the spring to see if better deals come along.
If you want to see expensive cars, check out some countries in Europe, especially Denmark - Australia pales in comparison. For an average American who thinks Mexico is to the North (45%), and New York is our capital (30%), knowing what them foreigners pay is meaningless ;-) We don't have an extensive social support network and our healthcare is not free, so our stuff can and should be cheaper.
I'm not happy with Pontiac's awful service and parts availability to say the least but if there are some nice rebates and GM card promotions in December I will go for another GTO. Otherwise, it's a Honda Pilot or Mazda6 station wagon for me... Much more practical and I won't have to negotiate with my wife :-)
I beleive the Commodor/Monaro is a more upscale line. As someone pointed out to me the Monaro in Australia is very well optioned. Even in US trim its still pretty well outfitted. Some content was probably not provided in order to keep the price down. Still, I suspect GM lost money on the car.
As to the GTO only selling 10K/yr this is more due to the absolute dis-interest (and disarray) at GM more than anything else. When Ford announced the new Mustang I think GM felt they had to do something for a short time. Bob Lutz led the effort but the only thing available was the Holden that could come close to the expected price of the Mustang. GM had no other rear drive platform in NA (and still doesn't) that would have been cost effective.
It seems that the GTO was only meant to fill a gap until some kind of replacement could be developed. Now its ending and there is no replacement except on the far horizon. GM is still in disarray, maybe even more so now. And they are still appear to be confused on if/when/what the rear-drive/front-drive model mix is really going to be. Just that the answer is somewhere over the rainbow.
We went inside, and I told him I wanted a Cyclone Grey, 6 speed, 17" wheels. He sputtered, and told me that he wasn't sure he could come up with one. I said okay, I would find one on my own. About 3 hours later, he calls me at work, tells me he found one, and then gave me the OLD MSRP, and then has the balls to offer me the car at 500 below the old MSRP. I decline, come home from work, and find 4 cars in the SE optioned out the way I want.
I call the internet saleman the next day, who turns out to be an old friend from 15 years ago. I tell him what I know, and he told me he would get back to me. He calls back, and offers me the car for 900 above invoice. I counter with 400, and we finally agree to 600 above invoice. Maybe not the best deal in the world, but given the fact that the cars are rare as hens teeth( I have only seen 6 on the road in 2 years, and I drive for a living), I am happy.
Why the GTO? Because I am a Pontiac man 1st of all. Then, I have always liked sleepers. If you take a quick glance at the GTO, it looks just like just about any old econobox out there, until you either A) See the hood scoops coming, or
As for the wheels, I have 18's for the summer and 17's for the winter with Blizzaks. Except for having to change wheels twice a year it works out fine. I've been thinking of swapping out the P235/18's for P245/18's but am concerned with the rubbing problem thats been reported. Anyone out there have any experience with P245's on the 18" wheels?