Is it easy to get parts for this car? Yes... and no.
The engine is made in Canada. The M6 tranny is made in Mexico. These are similar to, if not the exact same, as those used in previous/other GM vehicles. No concerns there.
Most parts are generally available faily quickly. I _have_ heard horror stories of folks who are in an accident and need major frame components, waiting 2+ months for them to get here (slow boat?). Things like glass and body panels shouldn't be a huge problem.
If you are talking modifications, the LS2 is used in the 'Vette and SSR (and now the CTS-V for '06). Tons of mods available for these cars - not as many as, say, a Mustang, but enough to get you in excess of 600 rwhp or to make the car an autocross demon.
The two biggest complaints I see are strut rub (must pay attention to alignment, or get the 18" wheel/tire combo which uses 235 size tires that don't have the problem) and water leaks. There was a pedal sensor problem on the '05's but there's a revised pedal assembly, widely available, which fixes the issue.
Holden's main car line (full-size and "Ute" vehicles) use the same chassis and similar interior/components as the GTO. They manufacture over 150k total V-chassis cars per year since 1997 (they get a new chassis this fall for some vehicles). I don't expect part availability to be a long-term problem...
I ran across these pics of a 2005 GTO Judge concept. Too bad GM wasn't smart enough to put this beast into production. If they had, no one would be talking about the LS7.
Engine Displacement: 6.4L (389 CID) Bore: 105.03mm (4.135”) Stroke: 92.00mm (3.622”) REV Limit: 7000 RPM Peak Hp: 575 Hp @ 6800 RPM Peak Tq: 500 Lb-Ft @ 5200 RPM Compression Ratio: 10.5:1 Cam Shaft: Custom GM Hyd Roller Valve lift: 15.75mm (.620”) Cam Duration Int: 232 deg @ .050” Tappet Cam Duration Exh: 272 deg @ .050” Tappet 90mm Throttle Body Dual Mass Air Flow sensors, Cold air induction system
The only thing I'm not sure about is the exhaust. I can't copy and paste the pictures, so here's a link for your viewing pleasure.
thanks Robert. the car has 15k miles. if i had my excrement more coagulated i would have noticed it before 12k! oh well. dealer is still working on the car. they have not noticed any blown bushing-strut-things. if problems persist i will certainly consider ponying up some $ for those noltec or pedder ones, and pay dealer to install. dealer agreed to contact TAC about revised alignment specs. thanks for the info about Jorge L-G at GM - i will pass that along to them if this strut-rub deal becomes an issue. at this point i don't even think dealer mechanic is looking for that as a problem. i suppose that when i get the car back maybe i can look myself for strut-rub. as usual, thanks for the awesome info sir!
Before the dealer finishes the car, have THEM look for wear marks on the struts in front. If that's the case I would still push them/GM for a free alignment and replacement tires, since this is a known problem... The 12k rule is a guideline, but they are known to make exceptions if you can document this (i.e. rub marks on the struts).
thanks Robert. i am trying to get that request to the service advisor now. the alignment is delayed because they say that aligning it requires replacement of some parts (nuts/bolts) that somehow require replacement during the alignment process. that sounds a bit weird actually, doesn't it!? i bet the struts on my car did not get rubbed much by the tires. on all cars i am sort of paranoid about maxxing out the steering - i don't like parking the car that way and when i'm turning i always back off a little bit if i encounter end-of-travel for the steering.
I think you are going too far to put in a SLP BOBCAT pACKAGE UNLESS YOU ARE A PROFESSIONAL RACER.My 2005 GOAT IS FAST ENOUGH , probably too fast for gus over 50. I have no trouble with Mustangs/ Vettes. The only problem is wheel spin at a light. If I get a good grip, i I can shutdown them. If i get a bad launch I tail fish all over ...real problem with such much torque. Remember you can never be the FASTEST GUN....there is always someone Faster............so to put so much money on a fast car...............that is your choice????? Remember the noise factor...inside the car and outside....cops.....also the GTO LUVS PREMIUM GAS....and this Summer gas will be $3.50-$3.80 and so 10 mpg in the city..............do the math...wow you are going over the top. Personally, invest in good STREET RACING/DRIVING TIRES. Hey Guys , what are a good coice in such TIRES.
In my opinion, you can never have too much HP. I say go for it! Check out gtoforum.com. There are several who have installed the 455 package and are very happy with it. If I'm not mistaken, I believe I have read where the 455 package with a good tune has actually resulted in an increase in fuel economy. Personally, I am waiting on STS's remote turbo (I have heard this is getting really close to market for the LS2). I'm hoping it'll hit the market for about the same $ or maybe a little more than the 455 package with the potential of at least 500 HP.
BTW mparis1, you may not have any trouble with the GT stangs, but a stock GTO with the LS2 is not going to hang with an LS2 vette and the Cobras will eat your lunch all day long (assuming the driver has both arms and legs).
To Robert the Goat Sage: It has the LoudMouth 2, which is, according to SLP and other opinions, not as obnoxious as the other choices. I am mindful that it may be too loud, in which case I will install something more sedate. GM High Tech Performance [a web site] has the opinion that it will only roar if pushed -- I think they (or another article) called it a "violent" roar, which appeals to me. We'll see. Interesting that SLP guarantees a gain of 55HP: the installer said he expects it will be closer to 65 (April 12 is my install date). I'll let you know. Welcome back. We missed you. How long do you think edmunds.com will carry this Goat forum?
To mparis: You gave good advice. I will not be foolish about this thing. There are other scenarios in which the additional HP will prove satisfying, though. About a week ago I was on 84E in Connecticut, in the middle lane, doing about 10 MPH below the limit (65); this Eurotrash M3 pulls along side of me in the passing lane and gives me the "I'm European" look; I put her into about 4000 revs and stomped it to about 80 (traffic was an issue); the M3 caught up with me, aggressively, on my tail; I could do no more because of traffic, but I don't think the guy comprehended what the sound and acceleration demonstration revealed. I am certain that the SLP will offer, in that scenario, a convincing display of American in-your-face macho which will, at least, please me (which is what matters, right?). Your mention of spinning out on take-off is odd because just last week there was a criminal case in our town where the defendant lost control of his car while dragging another car, hit a third car, killing the driver of that car. Sobering thought.
To whatsachevy: I agree with your HP theory. There's no such concept of too much HP -- just does'nt exist. But we have to stay alert to avoid hurting ourselves and others. I really believe that my obsession with acceleration power originates from my Navy fighter pilot days when I would plug in afterburner and... well, you know. The Goat gives me that feeling: sheer, brute, over-the-top thrust and power. I look at more powerful cars like a Carrera or a Viper and I don't get the same feeling. Odd.
Is there a noise to alert the driver that the fronts are rubbing? I only have 1700 miles on the car, and have not really pushed it yet- only to 110 on a long 4+ mile staight. I am going up to the NC mountains in a month or so, and I would like to know what to listen and feel for. Can a backyard mechanic change out the bushings? Other than this concern, I love the car ! Drive it around town 1-3-5, and it has more then enough in any gear to pin you to the seat. All while getting 21-22 MPG.
I changed mine myself. Purchased the Noltec Radius Rod bushings from Midwest Performance and Development (do a google search) for $177.76 to my door. Took about 2 hours. Requires a VERY large wrench, though, as the bolt that holds the bushing on is quite large (23mm, I think). I was able to carefully use a large crescent wrench; socket won't work on passenger side due to power steering lines blocking access. Do this, then make sure to get a knowledgable alignment guy on the job, pronto! My GTO drives better and I know the front tires aren't being eaten up. Most obvious difference is in hard braking; car is now like it's on rails; before the new bushings the car would weave back and forth due to the lack of support by the collapsed bushings. This is a pretty good test to see if your bushings are dead...
Fall may have come early this year since GM just announced the $8 billion loss is actually a $10 billion loss and they seem to be really motivated to sell cars.
Nope, no noise. If you look at the pics you will see there is not a ton of clearance between the stock 17's and the struts. Your best bet is to periodically check when the tires are being rotated, looking for any irregular tire wear on the inside top of the tire (or the inside sidewall), or any kind of marking on the struts. Some folks have taken to painting their struts so they can more readily see if there is rub (i.e. paint gone).
I take my car to an alignment place and have them check the alignment when rotating the tires. They also check for strut rub when the tires are off. My car comes out of storage in about a week, and then I'll go get an oil change/tire rotation, so we'll see if I'm having a problem at 9300 miles...
"PONTIAC ENTHUSIAST" MAGAZINE june 2006..page 9....GTO DISCONTINUED....the '06 is the final GTO. 2005 SALES 15% LOWER THAN 2004. HARD TO BELIEVE 2005 SALES LOWER THAN 2004 ? Is this true Robert, GTO GURU??? Like I have been saying, GM is on the brink and will not put out 2 Muscle Cars...Camaro/Gto. And if they are in business by 2010 ,a 2010 will be too late for us 60s muscle guys...so who will buy them. Young guys want Porsches/vettes/ Infiniti Coupes...big seller in nyc...always racing me...... If I get a good launch my 2005 can keep close to a LS2 Vette...have not seen a LS7 one yet. That is a different story... I beleive even GTO BOBCATS WILL NOT BEAT THEM. From what I have seen/ read ...they are THE FASTEST GUN IN TOWN...."SAVE YOUR PENNIES SAVE YOUR DIMES AND BUY A LS7." Tires for the street--- have you heard about "Nittos" brand? anybody? Should I go to the 235/45R18s to avoid bushing problems? Luv my car....a day does'nt pass when someone does 'nt say something to me/ race me/ look me over/ or I am getting gas.
It figures they sold more GTO's in '04 than '05, because they made more (16k in '04, 11k in '05). They are planning on making 13k '06's, so we'll see what sales are like. There probably will be some cars available still in early '07 due to the lack of a replacement model (some dealers hung onto Camaros and Trans Ams for 2-3 years after they were discontinued in 2002). So, sales should be about even.
Yes, there will be another GTO. I'd bet my 401K on it. It's in the design stages now and it supposedly looks fantastic. It appears that the rumors of the Quad Coupe are just that, rumors. The other big news is that Pontiac is probably not getting a Grand Prix/Bonneville replacement (i.e. no big RWD 4-door sedan - pity, I wanted a next-gen Holden Commodore SS as my next car). With GM's new flexible manufacturing capability, and basing the next-gen car on the NA version of Zeta (to be used by the Camaro, the next-gen Impala/Bel Air, next-gen Chevelle, and a next-gen Buick sedan), the costs are amortized. Not sure yet if there will be one plant (Oshawa, Ontario, Canada) or two (Oshawa and Wilmington, Delaware, where the Solstice/Sky/Opel variant of the Sky are built). The plan is to sell 15-20k vehicles, starting at around $30k, sometime in late 2008 as a 2009 model.
I am not in denial that GM has money issues... but they also have tons of good product in the queue. They've made a number of moves (warding off potential Delphi/UAW strike, selling off part of GMAC, their ownership stake in Suzuki and Subaru) to bring in $$$. This will get them through 2006 into their contract year with the UAW in 2007, at which point in time they will be pushing to close factories, end the jobs bank, increase the union contribution to health-care costs, et. al. At least they have new product in the pipeline (unlike Ford, who IMHO is hurting even worse, but not bleeding as much cash as GM). GM has no margin for error... they need to execute, and every product needs to be a hit, for the next 3-4 years, to get out from under this.
Regarding tires... if you have the '05/'06 18" wheels I'd stay with 235/40R18 size tires. I would consider the "new tread" BF Goodrich KDW 2 tires (buddy had them on his IS300, they stuck like glue), Pirelli P-Zero Neros (used on the Mustang GT's), and Toyo's. Avoid the Goodyear F-1's like the plague - balance issues/vibration. The Nitto drag radials are pretty decent for dry traction, but if you drive the car in the rain (or, obviously, in winter), forget about the drag radials. They'll last maybe 10k miles, too, FWIW.
I beleive that GM will survive, although as a much smaller company with much smaller market share. It may still take a bankruptcy to accomplish this.
As to there being both a GTO and a Camaro, I agree that its unlikely that both will make it to market. The problem, as I see it, is one of positioning and price. If GM can produce a LS2 type Camaro (320+ HP, six-speed, etc) and list it, and note I say list it, not what the price is out the door, for slightly over $20,000 then there is room for a GTO in the $25K to $28K bracket. If the Camaro, in V8 trim, lists closer to the Mustang GT at about $26K, you end up with the issue of fine granualarity pricing, or what do you get for the extra $2K in a GTO.
If the Camaro does fall into the $26K to $32K bracket, covering the higher performance, higher content models (including the propose LS7), then the GTO either competes for the same customers, if its priced into the same range, or it needs to move upscale into the $30K to $38K, or greater, price bracket. In this price range the compitition is quite different and pure "muscle car" image does not do well in this range. Nor does a brand that is not considered a competitor in this range where BMW, Lexus, etc start to play.
This, I think, is part of the problem with the GTO today. Its a nice car. Its a nice driver. But its a tweener. It doesn't list low enough to attact the attention of the younger crowd, despite what it actually goes for out the door, and it doesn't have the brand image, and more important the content (lux type items) to play with the BMW and Lexus models and attract that group.
So, if they do bring back both its likely they will compete for the same customers and this is likely to be a zero sum game for GM.
I don't think you'll see an LS2 in either vehicle since I believe the St. Catherine's engine plant gets shut down in 2008 as well. The LS3 (425+ hp) is coming, as well as another V8.
Base Camaro - 22k w/3.9L V6 - midrange - LS3 or the mystery V8? $26-$30k. There may be an LS7 version later on down the road, but expect BIG $$$ ($40k+).
The GTO will start around $30k and have the LS3. It will be a somewhat larger vehicle than the Camaro (NOT a clone/reskin the like 4thgen F-bodies were) and will go up to $35k with features like sunroof, HIDs, NAV, et. al.
my 05 remains in dealer shop. so it will have taken them at least SIX DAYS to align it. they claim this is due to some nuts/bolts that get consumed by removing them. i find this almost too bizarre to be believed. does it mean that no non-dealer shop can ever align the car without ordering parts from australia and waiting 6 days? i will try to get the part #s of these parts they are ordering. speaking of headlights/HIDs. i find i like the projector-beams of the goat WAY better than the xenons on our volvo xc90. way better lighting pattern - seems like more light - no abrupt cutoff of the light pattern. i can just see better/further with the goat lights than with the xc90s xenons, i think. btw, thanks for those previous alignment specs Robert - i note that those specs do specify a slight negative camber from the factory! is that unique to gto - negative camber in factory alignment specs. it is consistent with the handling of the car, sometimes it felt like it has "snap oversteer" reminiscent of the old porsche 911s. i sorta liked it i sure noticed that the handling was way different than any of my Z28s, as soon as i pushed the goat through a turn. (that is, it didn't "push" at all - oversteer instead).
Thanks for the heads up. My Goat wanders on grooved pavement, but doesn't on non grooved. It also looks like I need to find an alingment ship that doesn't use the new fangled computers to aline the the wheels. My father drove the goat for the first time today. He owned an 85' TA with all the goodies, and after his drive, proclaimed that the goat would have eaten the TA for lunch and dinner. I drove back from the halfway point, and promptly showed him what 0-60 in 5 secs is like. I then whipped it around a right hand turn at an intersection, and proceeded to pin the food bags to the left hand side of the car........yeeeeeeehaaawwwwwwwwww.
i want to thank everyone who has been providing very usefull information about the strut bushing problem, gm contact info, and updated alightment specs.
i have been considering purchasing a new 2006 and now have some thoughts on that for any one also considering such a purchase.
first of all, the cost of non oem strut bushings and tires must be factored in. the chance thata bushing will fail after the warranty period is great as is the tire damage. second, the information regarding the bushing failure, liklihood of alignment issues, etc. must be brought to the sales manager's attention at the time the deal is negotiated. i for one will speak witht the pontiac service manager about all this before i even start the negotiations.
second, gm/holden must issue a recall with a new bushing design to fix the problem. i agree that nhtsa must be notified asap by every gto owner.
if every gto owner notifies nhtsa, it will commence an investigation and given the seriousness of the damage to the tire, and a liklihood of blow out, would mandate a recall.
I think all you need to do is have the dealer replace the OEM bushings with Noltec or Pedders. Parts should be between $175-$250 and should take under an hour to install. The car will need an alignment. If you do this when you buy the car, and have the alignment checked and have them look for visible signs of strut rub during tire rotations, you'll do fine...
Remember, if you get the optional 18" summer-only tires and wheels, they are only a 235-sized tire and generally won't rub. All Monaros come with 18"ers from stock - GMNA downsized the tires to 17's (but increased the size to 245) due to concern about crappy roads and ride quality/bent rims...
I agree that anyone who has experienced this issue should notify NHTSA at http://www.nhtsa.gov
I know a large number of GTO owners are on-line, but not all, and not a large percentage of on-line folks know about this potentially-serious issue. Hopefully GM becomes proactive rather than reactive and begins to notify 2004-2006 GTO owners... in the meantime, it's best to be proactive yourself...
Can you post some more pics of your rims? I am going to get a torrid red M6 and really wanted the 17's but the only one they have coming in has 18's which I dont really care for.
hi. i thought you all might be amused or curious about my 05 goat's alignment issues. car has ~15k miles. the alignment took 7 days to complete at a cost of about $250. i find this to be extremely curious and consistent with the known issues regarding GTO strut-bushings/strut-rub/etc/etc. here are the details and cost breakdown and parts that were delivered apparently via outrigger-canoe from australia.
"customer reports excessive tire wear, please check and advise". response: performed front end alignment. excessive negative camber on vehicle. labor: $78 . (alignment reports indicates that the alignment was in fact very close to being WITHIN FACTORY SPEC to begin with (below)).
"align: check steering, suspension, shocks, tie-rods, ball joints, tires, set tire pressure, toe-in, camber, caster, road test". labor: $79.95 (again). parts: $56. installed 92138205 NUT 06164-PC (4 @ $4.85). installed 92138049 washer (06178-PC) 4@$1.64. installed 11090821 bolt 06009-PC 4@$7.60 . "additional parts needed for strut hardware to complete alignment properly". service rep indicated verbally that they had to drill out the old parts. i find this bizarre. the car is 10 months old - why were the parts "frozen"?
bottom line is that the alignment cost me over $200 . maybe they charged me for the labor twice but i do believe that it took them considerable hours to do this work. i will enquire as to whether they charged for the labor twice. i still like this dealership and believe they are honest. i will probably reporting all of this to that Jorge dude at GM (thanks for his info, Robert). i do not plan to notify NHTSA as i do not necessarily/yet agree there is a safety problem here. here is the portion of before/after vehicle alignment info which looks signficant to me. first # is "before" middle numbers are spec-range. final # is "after". primary angles: caster left 8.9 (6.5-9.0) 8.9 caster right 9.3 (6.5-9.0) 9.3 [still OUT OF SPEC!] camber left -0.6 (-0.7 0.3) 0.1 front camber right -0.4 (-0.7 0.3) 0.0 toe left 0.10 (0.00 - 0.15) 0.10 toe right -0.10 (0.00 0.15) 0.10 toe total 0.00 (0.00 0.35) 0.25 camber left -1.4 (-1.7 -0.4) -1.5 camber right -1.5 (-1.7 -0.4) -1.5 toe left 0.10 (0.05 0.35) 0.10 rear toe right (0.05 (0.05 - 0.35) 0.00 [OUT OF SPEC!] toe total 0.15 (0.05 0.75) 0.10 thrust angle 0.0 (0.2) 0.1 (the "front/rear" doesn't really match up with the other columns on their printout - i have reflected that discrepancy above). all the secondary angles are unchanged according to their report and are within the spec #s on their printout so i am not mentioning those. i put in a call to the service rep and asked him to comment on why after a week and $250, two of the alignment numbers are still out of spec. i do pity the guy for having to put up with my incredible nitpicking. but hey, that's the way it goes. now to go look up that Jorge guys info.
This is all pretty sad, to be honest. If the strut rod bushings are blown, this is all for naught. With the bushings flopping around as you drive, the alignment is constantly changing based on whether you are accelerating, braking, and/or turning. Obviously, you are only interested in getting the car right, regardless of effort or cost required. This is honorable. Your experience is why I don't purchase extended warranties. A warranty is only as good as the people "honoring" the warranty. I've found very few dealer service people who have the knowledge, ability, attitude and backing from the manufacturer to do anything right on a consistant basis. If I can troubleshoot the problem (with which the internet helps immeasurably), most of the time I have better results repairing it myself, and not even involve the dealer service department. About 50% of the time they actually break/scratch/damage something else anyway. Just not hardly worth the frustration, short of a major failure of some kind.
thanks white6. it is sorta sad alright. i'm also annoyed with myself for not telling them the brakes are pulsing a bit - front rotor is obviously warped a bit - wheel shakes as i brake and i feel the pulsing. maybe i'll wait until september/inspection time to have them deal with that. not sure how much i'll drive the car this summer, probably just a couple of times per week. not even sure if machining the rotors would have been appropritae. nowadays the cure for pulsing brakes is to replace the rotors usually, eh? ugh. while the new alignment is still technically out of spec according to their own #s i am fairly confident it will be better than before. they sure worked on it long enough. i don't think the bushings are blown - the car does not wander during heavy braking at all. i gotta admit i'm wondering if i should have gone the extra $$$ for a C6 vette. bro-in-law just got a red C6 convertible with all options. i haven't seen him in a year but i told him that the fact he bought a vette tells me that he is way more bald than when i last saw him. inbetween curses he told me i was right about that.
"I haven't seen him in a year but i told him that the fact he bought a vette tells me that he is way more bald than when i last saw him."
That's great! I have considered a Vette before; my primary reservation is the "look at me" styling. I don't like to feel like I'm on display. That said, if I wanted one that bad, I would probably go ahead and get one anyway. I like the subdued styling of the GTO (not to mention the much easier ingress/egress).
I have to agree with you; one obvious symptom of blown bushings is the wandering under hard braking. In fact, that's how I ruined mine; bedding new pads after converting to a set of 05 front brake calipers/rotors. After returning from said bedding, noticed two pools of fluid under the front of the car. Upon closer examination, witnessed drips coming from front strut bushings. Amazing.
ouch, sorry to hear about your goat bushings demise. but good that you noticed right away. today i noticed that my $250-alignment goat's steering wheel is slightly off-center compared to how it was from the factory. combining that with the fact that the $250 alignment printout shows one measurement just as out of spec as before they adjusted it, and another one out of spec after when it was in spec before, that means i will definitely be burning more of my copious spare time getting my car back to the dealership for a "re-take". i deal with repairing similar sorts of "possible design flaws" in my job (software) and have a lot of sympathy for the mechanic who has this case. it would truly suck if a "re-take" like this ends up coming out of the mechanics pocket. he is working hard and deserves to get paid. i know that for most repairs the mechanic's pay is determined out of a "reference book" which lists # of hours for a particular job. if the mechanic finishes the job quicker, that's extra $ for him. if he is slow to finish, that's his own time & money being lost. so if "alignment" is listed in this book as just 1 hour labor, this mechanic is really getting screwed. i have already notified the GM guy Jorge via voice mail of the situation and will leave him a followup too. if the dealer fails again after this 2nd try i'm not sure what i will do. maybe find an aftermarket speed-shop with whatever it takes to get the job done.
re the "look at me" styling of vette vs. GTO - that's one reason i went for the GTO in the most subdued color possible - to avoid extra attention. also that's why i removed the GTO tags from the side and replaced rear bumper cover with the Holden part that is flat-black and does not say "G T O" in huge letters. it didn't work though - i've mentioned here before that the GTO gets an incredible amount of attention on the road - EVERY TIME i drive it. kids yell at me constantly (usually good things). other (young) drivers start to drive maniacally after they see my goat - either to try to race me or just to position in traffic so they can see the car better or hang out their window while yelling and gesticulating at me to "goose" the goat - they want to hear the exhaust sound. the exhaust sure does sound awesome - and the other drivers antics are funny the first few times but gets old really fast. from what i've seen the GTO gets substantially M O R E attention than does C6, a camaro, or a hopped up mustang. if i keep this car much longer my next step might be to buy an 04/smooth hood and get it painted/installed, and to remove the rear spoiler too. one concern i have about the spoiler is that i plan to road-course the car after warranty is over - if i keep it that long. maybe the road course speeds are slow enough that spoiler would not add any value...
I can't imagine that the rear spoiler is anything other than cosmetic. Plus, it blocks rearward vision. I purchased a trunk lid from a salvage yard, had the holes welded up, and refinished. Trunk lid cost me $225, another $400 to have the holes welded and refinished. I still have my original trunk w/spoiler stored up on top of a cabinet in the garage. Every mod I do, I make sure I can reverse (just in case). I should be receiving my VZ Monaro front bumper today from FedEx. Have to call Australia now to order the upper and lower grills and misc. hardware to complete the "nose job."
Looking at '05 with 7500 miles for $25,900...2 bads, red and automatic. My 2 questions; i keep hearing about slow seat motors as i will have 2 car seats in the back. is access to back seat too much of a pain and i should look for 4 door or stick with my 4runner. and i will drive it all winter here in ohio, is this possible as well? test drove the '06 with 6 speed, and afraid to go back to play with car seats in and out for fear i will buy no matter what.! thanks!
The seat motors are kinda slow. It would have been nice if there was a manual mode, but there isn't. The '06's were supposed to get faster seat motors, but they didn't. I guess it must be the Aussies' joke towards us Type A Americans as they don't seem to complain.
Regarding back seat access, there's lots of room back there, it can be difficult to get back there - this is dependent on how big and limber you are. You will have to make the call here.
There are many folks who drive their GTO year-round - though dedicated winter snow tires would be a strong suggestion no matter what (Dunlop WinterSport are the most common winter tires). On one hand, the GTO, being designed and sold primarily in Australia and also the Middle East, isn't necessarily engineered for cold weather. It's not the engine or tranny, it would be the interior (i.e. no heated seats - time to visit PFYC.com) passenger comfort/climate control that would concern me (i.e. there aren't any under-seat heat ducts for rear passengers - just the blower behind the center console).
Also note that the defrost mode requires you to manually turn on the AC to defog windows - and the airflow isn't as much as it should be. I haven't had a problem driving my car from April through part of November, but I do store it for the winter... but again, not everyone does. I suppose if I had to drive my car in the winter, I would... just glad that I don't have to.
the spoiler does eliminate rear vision nearly 100%, good for blocking tailgators lights in traffic actually. i'm going to have scotty in engineering beam the spoiler and vented hood out of there. imagine how fast this car would eat snow tires considering what happens with the factory alignment & tires.
I have 2 car seats in the back of mine and they fit with plenty of space. Getting them past the front seats the first time required a bit of manouvering but it was no problem. I don't find the seat motor speed a problem. My kids can climb in and out easily but my mother in law found it a bit hard. Once inside she found it very comfortable. My kids love the car.
It is not a great winter car because of the rear wheel drive, high power and heating system. I drive it in winter but not in snow. When I have had to it has been fine but you need to take it easy in the snow or wet because there is so much power back there on the rear wheels. Heating is not good. It takes forever to warm up. Defogging is okay with the air con on the front but the side windows are very slow.
In summary. Car seats no problem and slow seats no problem for the kids to get by. Not great in winter. But fun every time you take it out.
Has anyone had any experience or know anyone that has taken a GTO to continental Europe (especially Germany or Austria)? What issues were there, if any, with registration?
There are several US service members on LS1GTO who have theirs in Germany (GTO + Autobahn = nirvana - ditto GTO + Nurburgring :-). I don't believe there have been any serious issues with registration. I'll ask one of them and let you know...
I read the cautions about the GTO not being a great winter car and I must disagree. I live in Western Pennsylvania, similar winters. The car does require winter tires. The dunlops I had installed on my car had my car going while other cars were spinning their wheels and all winter I never had any control issues on any type of surface including ice. Since I have owned several rear wheel drive vehicles in the past, I must say this is the best handling one I have driven in the snow. However much of this is no doubt do to the tires. The car takes approximately the same time to warm up as my previous cars which included a mercury cougar. Side defroster is not very efficient but I doubt that the quality of the side window defoster would make much if any difference in my decision to buy any car.
Thanks, i was curious about getting snow tires to solve the problem for the most part. what type of dunlops were they? and no way would a little side window frost stop me from looking more seriously at this car in the coming weeks.
No Not a harley engine... The folks at the factory installed my clutch pedal upside-down! Can I DIY it or should I make the 2 hr trek to the dealership? Dr. Robert...Anyone....Help!
I have a 4 year lease (it will be over just in time for the 09 GTO coming out in 08, if it actually happens)for $399 per month. I thought it was a great deal until the incentives got crazy. I told them 12,000 miles per year but ended up with 15,000 per year. I hope I'm not paying more for that especially since I've got 14K on the car and I'll have had it for two years in July.
What residual value did they give you after 4 years? Was there a big difference between the residual value of 15,000 vs 10,000 annual mileage restriction?
hi all. yesterday, took delivery on a cyclone gray met. auto. yes, i wanted to drive the 6 sp, but lots of good reasons for auto. anyway, i have enjoyed this board.
on the blown bushings, i spoke to the shop manager who said that the worst were the 2004s and much fewer in 2005 and 2006.
i was wondering if anyone has found out if they can get the body side molding which goes in the side crease from holden. it is obvious that the crease can house molding.
fyi, my favorite dash cover dealer (here in florida we must cover the dash if the car sits in the sun) has the gto template, and in a week or two, i will get that.
dealer body shop wants between $2K & $3K for that job, including $680 for the 2004 hood. upper end of the range is if i want blending. i told them i'm color-blind anyway. they think maybe blending won't be necessary. even so, that is big $. maybe well worth it for me though. i suppose another body shop could give lower quote, but a big factor for me is the time-cost of dealing with pickup/dropoff too. it's nice if they can do the body work and re-fix the alignment at the same shop. in alignment news, a factory rep called me and told me a case #, due to that voice message i left for Jorge @ GM regarding strut-rub/etc. (supposedly no strut rub on my goat- i always avoid maxxing the steering.)
So far, the glare from the silver stripe in the windshield is the only drawback that I have. A dash cover is in the works to fix that problem. Other then that, my goat is running great. I have toyed with the idea of replacing the "GTO" cover on the rear, but so far I have resisted. I also have learned to drive the car 1-3-5-6, which misses the stupid "skip shift" I drive by a high school on my way to work. The other day, the PE class was outside doing jumping jacks when I drove by. I watched with a smile as I turned all the heads of the males in the class. I do hate the tailgaters that just have to get a closeup-I normally use this as an excuse to "disappear" down the road.
minor problem with seat -- rocks back and forth. Apparently a problem that Aussies have had with Holden's for many years.
The dealership took two tries to solve the problem. First time in, they didn't listen well to my complaint and simply did the 'fix' on the front seat they found in their computers .. not the correct solution. The second time, they hooked me up with the 'seat specialist' and he fixed it in under 5 minutes. Robert's salient advice to give the guy a ride worked well ... as soon as he sat down in the car, he knew it was a problem./
ANyways, all fixed and driving even faster than ever. Took the El Cajon pass up out of LA ... love the uphill power.
Looking at the adjustable sway bar kit from Hotchkiss ... anybody installed it? How long did it take to install at the speed shop? What setting is the best? Got a quote for over 300 dollars for the kit ... seems excessive.
I got the bars- work great. Paid $350 for install and that included alignment. make sure to replace radius rod and xmember bushings with poly or you are wasting your time.
:lemon: I have a 2004 GTO with only 4,403 miles on the car. I have had many different problems with the car. I live in South Florida and the heat and sun seem to be killing the car. The first thing that I noticed was the stitching on the rear seats had come apart (the car was about 5 months old at this time). I took the car to the dealer and 4 weeks (ordering parts) later I picked the car up with the seats still looking like crap from the interior shop re stitch job. I took the car home I had a car show that week, while at the show I noticed the rear panel top leather was bubbling up about the size of a silver dollar. The next day the car went back to the dealer. After getting the first story about they were waiting on parts for the first repair and it was a job that was sent out again they told me that the parts would be ordered and I would be give a call when to bring the car back for the to install the "new seats". I called GM direct and they pulled a 05 off the showroom floor and removed the all the rear interior (rear seats, door panels, speaker cover center section etc) to put in my car. The car was ready the next day. I came to pick the car up and it was a sunny day and the car was parked outside next to the 05 without any interior I noticed on my GTO the front and rear Pontiac arrow head was not red it was more of an orange color. So the dealer had to order new ones. About 5 months go by and the rear panel leather is coming up and same with the front door panels under the handle. I again took the car back to the dealer (different dealer) and showed him where the leather was coming up. Also the arrows had faded back to orange. They glued the rear panel again crappy job and changed out the arrows. This is just a start of the problems ..3 batteries, airbag sensor, dash lights, a/c noise, a pump sound only after start up when car is cool and a few others. The whole time I was on the phone with Pontiac cust service and finally someone at the Exec offices (arrogant [non-permissible content removed])to get this resolved. From the start I wanted GM to extend my warranty but they refused to do anything but give me 1 years oil changes for the over 153 days my car was out of service due to warranty work. I have contacted the BBB and it seems to be resolved. Pontiac/GM now has to repurchase my car give me back what I paid for the car+actually trade value+tax+dealer fee+interest -mileage -GM card money. I'm lucky that I don't have this car as my everyday car I would have gotten back less ($.32 a mile) :lemon: I had a 2004 GTO Black on Black 6sp. I'm going to miss that car it was a very nice car put the problems were mind blowing... I might pick up a used one in a few years when all the bugs have been worked out or they are made here in the states.
Comments
The engine is made in Canada. The M6 tranny is made in Mexico. These are similar to, if not the exact same, as those used in previous/other GM vehicles. No concerns there.
Most parts are generally available faily quickly. I _have_ heard horror stories of folks who are in an accident and need major frame components, waiting 2+ months for them to get here (slow boat?). Things like glass and body panels shouldn't be a huge problem.
If you are talking modifications, the LS2 is used in the 'Vette and SSR (and now the CTS-V for '06). Tons of mods available for these cars - not as many as, say, a Mustang, but enough to get you in excess of 600 rwhp or to make the car an autocross demon.
The two biggest complaints I see are strut rub (must pay attention to alignment, or get the 18" wheel/tire combo which uses 235 size tires that don't have the problem) and water leaks. There was a pedal sensor problem on the '05's but there's a revised pedal assembly, widely available, which fixes the issue.
Holden's main car line (full-size and "Ute" vehicles) use the same chassis and similar interior/components as the GTO. They manufacture over 150k total V-chassis cars per year since 1997 (they get a new chassis this fall for some vehicles). I don't expect part availability to be a long-term problem...
--Robert
Engine Displacement: 6.4L (389 CID)
Bore: 105.03mm (4.135”)
Stroke: 92.00mm (3.622”)
REV Limit: 7000 RPM
Peak Hp: 575 Hp @ 6800 RPM
Peak Tq: 500 Lb-Ft @ 5200 RPM
Compression Ratio: 10.5:1
Cam Shaft: Custom GM Hyd Roller
Valve lift: 15.75mm (.620”)
Cam Duration Int: 232 deg @ .050” Tappet
Cam Duration Exh: 272 deg @ .050” Tappet
90mm Throttle Body
Dual Mass Air Flow sensors, Cold air induction system
The only thing I'm not sure about is the exhaust. I can't copy and paste the pictures, so here's a link for your viewing pleasure.
http://www.gtoalley.com/2004gtob.html
dealer is still working on the car. they have not noticed any blown bushing-strut-things. if problems persist i will certainly consider ponying up some $ for those noltec or pedder ones, and pay dealer to install.
dealer agreed to contact TAC about revised alignment specs. thanks for the info about Jorge L-G at GM - i will pass that along to them if this strut-rub deal becomes an issue. at this point i don't even think dealer mechanic is looking for that as a problem. i suppose that when i get the car back maybe i can look myself for strut-rub. as usual, thanks for the awesome info sir!
i bet the struts on my car did not get rubbed much by the tires. on all cars i am sort of paranoid about maxxing out the steering - i don't like parking the car that way and when i'm turning i always back off a little bit if i encounter end-of-travel for the steering.
More news after I've tried to have this solved.
I live in orange county, CA.
-Matt
Remember the noise factor...inside the car and outside....cops.....also the GTO LUVS PREMIUM GAS....and this Summer gas will be $3.50-$3.80 and so 10 mpg in the city..............do the math...wow you are going over the top.
Personally, invest in good STREET RACING/DRIVING TIRES.
Hey Guys , what are a good coice in such TIRES.
BTW mparis1, you may not have any trouble with the GT stangs, but a stock GTO with the LS2 is not going to hang with an LS2 vette and the Cobras will eat your lunch all day long (assuming the driver has both arms and legs).
To mparis: You gave good advice. I will not be foolish about this thing. There are other scenarios in which the additional HP will prove satisfying, though. About a week ago I was on 84E in Connecticut, in the middle lane, doing about 10 MPH below the limit (65); this Eurotrash M3 pulls along side of me in the passing lane and gives me the "I'm European" look; I put her into about 4000 revs and stomped it to about 80 (traffic was an issue); the M3 caught up with me, aggressively, on my tail; I could do no more because of traffic, but I don't think the guy comprehended what the sound and acceleration demonstration revealed. I am certain that the SLP will offer, in that scenario, a convincing display of American in-your-face macho which will, at least, please me (which is what matters, right?). Your mention of spinning out on take-off is odd because just last week there was a criminal case in our town where the defendant lost control of his car while dragging another car, hit a third car, killing the driver of that car. Sobering thought.
To whatsachevy: I agree with your HP theory. There's no such concept of too much HP -- just does'nt exist. But we have to stay alert to avoid hurting ourselves and others. I really believe that my obsession with acceleration power originates from my Navy fighter pilot days when I would plug in afterburner and... well, you know. The Goat gives me that feeling: sheer, brute, over-the-top thrust and power. I look at more powerful cars like a Carrera or a Viper and I don't get the same feeling. Odd.
Can a backyard mechanic change out the bushings?
Other than this concern, I love the car ! Drive it around town 1-3-5, and it has more then enough in any gear to pin you to the seat. All while getting 21-22 MPG.
I take my car to an alignment place and have them check the alignment when rotating the tires. They also check for strut rub when the tires are off. My car comes out of storage in about a week, and then I'll go get an oil change/tire rotation, so we'll see if I'm having a problem at 9300 miles...
--Robert
HARD TO BELIEVE 2005 SALES LOWER THAN 2004 ?
Is this true Robert, GTO GURU???
Like I have been saying, GM is on the brink and will not put out 2 Muscle Cars...Camaro/Gto. And if they are in business by 2010 ,a 2010 will be too late for us 60s muscle guys...so who will buy them. Young guys want Porsches/vettes/ Infiniti Coupes...big seller in nyc...always racing me......
If I get a good launch my 2005 can keep close to a LS2 Vette...have not seen a LS7 one yet. That is a different story... I beleive even GTO BOBCATS WILL NOT BEAT THEM. From what I have seen/ read ...they are THE FASTEST GUN IN TOWN...."SAVE YOUR PENNIES SAVE YOUR DIMES AND BUY A LS7."
Tires for the street--- have you heard about "Nittos" brand?
anybody?
Should I go to the 235/45R18s to avoid bushing problems?
Luv my car....a day does'nt pass when someone does 'nt say something to me/ race me/ look me over/ or I am getting gas.
Yes, there will be another GTO. I'd bet my 401K on it. It's in the design stages now and it supposedly looks fantastic. It appears that the rumors of the Quad Coupe are just that, rumors. The other big news is that Pontiac is probably not getting a Grand Prix/Bonneville replacement (i.e. no big RWD 4-door sedan - pity, I wanted a next-gen Holden Commodore SS as my next car). With GM's new flexible manufacturing capability, and basing the next-gen car on the NA version of Zeta (to be used by the Camaro, the next-gen Impala/Bel Air, next-gen Chevelle, and a next-gen Buick sedan), the costs are amortized. Not sure yet if there will be one plant (Oshawa, Ontario, Canada) or two (Oshawa and Wilmington, Delaware, where the Solstice/Sky/Opel variant of the Sky are built). The plan is to sell 15-20k vehicles, starting at around $30k, sometime in late 2008 as a 2009 model.
I am not in denial that GM has money issues... but they also have tons of good product in the queue. They've made a number of moves (warding off potential Delphi/UAW strike, selling off part of GMAC, their ownership stake in Suzuki and Subaru) to bring in $$$. This will get them through 2006 into their contract year with the UAW in 2007, at which point in time they will be pushing to close factories, end the jobs bank, increase the union contribution to health-care costs, et. al. At least they have new product in the pipeline (unlike Ford, who IMHO is hurting even worse, but not bleeding as much cash as GM). GM has no margin for error... they need to execute, and every product needs to be a hit, for the next 3-4 years, to get out from under this.
Regarding tires... if you have the '05/'06 18" wheels I'd stay with 235/40R18 size tires. I would consider the "new tread" BF Goodrich KDW 2 tires (buddy had them on his IS300, they stuck like glue), Pirelli P-Zero Neros (used on the Mustang GT's), and Toyo's. Avoid the Goodyear F-1's like the plague - balance issues/vibration. The Nitto drag radials are pretty decent for dry traction, but if you drive the car in the rain (or, obviously, in winter), forget about the drag radials. They'll last maybe 10k miles, too, FWIW.
Hope this helps,
--Robert
As to there being both a GTO and a Camaro, I agree that its unlikely that both will make it to market. The problem, as I see it, is one of positioning and price. If GM can produce a LS2 type Camaro (320+ HP, six-speed, etc) and list it, and note I say list it, not what the price is out the door, for slightly over $20,000 then there is room for a GTO in the $25K to $28K bracket. If the Camaro, in V8 trim, lists closer to the Mustang GT at about $26K, you end up with the issue of fine granualarity pricing, or what do you get for the extra $2K in a GTO.
If the Camaro does fall into the $26K to $32K bracket, covering the higher performance, higher content models (including the propose LS7), then the GTO either competes for the same customers, if its priced into the same range, or it needs to move upscale into the $30K to $38K, or greater, price bracket. In this price range the compitition is quite different and pure "muscle car" image does not do well in this range. Nor does a brand that is not considered a competitor in this range where BMW, Lexus, etc start to play.
This, I think, is part of the problem with the GTO today. Its a nice car. Its a nice driver. But its a tweener. It doesn't list low enough to attact the attention of the younger crowd, despite what it actually goes for out the door, and it doesn't have the brand image, and more important the content (lux type items) to play with the BMW and Lexus models and attract that group.
So, if they do bring back both its likely they will compete for the same customers and this is likely to be a zero sum game for GM.
Base Camaro - 22k w/3.9L V6 - midrange - LS3 or the mystery V8? $26-$30k. There may be an LS7 version later on down the road, but expect BIG $$$ ($40k+).
The GTO will start around $30k and have the LS3. It will be a somewhat larger vehicle than the Camaro (NOT a clone/reskin the like 4thgen F-bodies were) and will go up to $35k with features like sunroof, HIDs, NAV, et. al.
speaking of headlights/HIDs. i find i like the projector-beams of the goat WAY better than the xenons on our volvo xc90. way better lighting pattern - seems like more light - no abrupt cutoff of the light pattern. i can just see better/further with the goat lights than with the xc90s xenons, i think.
btw, thanks for those previous alignment specs Robert - i note that those specs do specify a slight negative camber from the factory! is that unique to gto - negative camber in factory alignment specs. it is consistent with the handling of the car, sometimes it felt like it has "snap oversteer" reminiscent of the old porsche 911s. i sorta liked it
My father drove the goat for the first time today. He owned an 85' TA with all the goodies, and after his drive, proclaimed that the goat would have eaten the TA for lunch and dinner. I drove back from the halfway point, and promptly showed him what 0-60 in 5 secs is like. I then whipped it around a right hand turn at an intersection, and proceeded to pin the food bags to the left hand side of the car........yeeeeeeehaaawwwwwwwwww.
i have been considering purchasing a new 2006 and now have some thoughts on that for any one also considering such a purchase.
first of all, the cost of non oem strut bushings and tires must be factored in. the chance thata bushing will fail after the warranty period is great as is the tire damage. second, the information regarding the bushing failure, liklihood of alignment issues, etc. must be brought to the sales manager's attention at the time the deal is negotiated. i for one will speak witht the pontiac service manager about all this before i even start the negotiations.
second, gm/holden must issue a recall with a new bushing design to fix the problem. i agree that nhtsa must be notified asap by every gto owner.
if every gto owner notifies nhtsa, it will commence an investigation and given the seriousness of the damage to the tire, and a liklihood of blow out, would mandate a recall.
thanks to all. rr70
Remember, if you get the optional 18" summer-only tires and wheels, they are only a 235-sized tire and generally won't rub. All Monaros come with 18"ers from stock - GMNA downsized the tires to 17's (but increased the size to 245) due to concern about crappy roads and ride quality/bent rims...
I agree that anyone who has experienced this issue should notify NHTSA at http://www.nhtsa.gov
I know a large number of GTO owners are on-line, but not all, and not a large percentage of on-line folks know about this potentially-serious issue. Hopefully GM becomes proactive rather than reactive and begins to notify 2004-2006 GTO owners... in the meantime, it's best to be proactive yourself...
--Robert
"customer reports excessive tire wear, please check and advise". response: performed front end alignment. excessive negative camber on vehicle. labor: $78 .
(alignment reports indicates that the alignment was in fact very close to being WITHIN FACTORY SPEC to begin with (below)).
"align: check steering, suspension, shocks, tie-rods, ball joints, tires, set tire pressure, toe-in, camber, caster, road test". labor: $79.95 (again). parts: $56.
installed 92138205 NUT 06164-PC (4 @ $4.85). installed 92138049 washer (06178-PC) 4@$1.64. installed 11090821 bolt 06009-PC 4@$7.60 . "additional parts needed for strut hardware to complete alignment properly". service rep indicated verbally that they had to drill out the old parts. i find this bizarre. the car is 10 months old - why were the parts "frozen"?
bottom line is that the alignment cost me over $200 . maybe they charged me for the labor twice but i do believe that it took them considerable hours to do this work. i will enquire as to whether they charged for the labor twice. i still like this dealership and believe they are honest. i will probably reporting all of this to that Jorge dude at GM (thanks for his info, Robert).
i do not plan to notify NHTSA as i do not necessarily/yet agree there is a safety problem here.
here is the portion of before/after vehicle alignment info which looks signficant to me. first # is "before" middle numbers are spec-range. final # is "after".
primary angles:
caster left 8.9 (6.5-9.0) 8.9
caster right 9.3 (6.5-9.0) 9.3 [still OUT OF SPEC!]
camber left -0.6 (-0.7 0.3) 0.1
front camber right -0.4 (-0.7 0.3) 0.0
toe left 0.10 (0.00 - 0.15) 0.10
toe right -0.10 (0.00 0.15) 0.10
toe total 0.00 (0.00 0.35) 0.25
camber left -1.4 (-1.7 -0.4) -1.5
camber right -1.5 (-1.7 -0.4) -1.5
toe left 0.10 (0.05 0.35) 0.10
rear toe right (0.05 (0.05 - 0.35) 0.00 [OUT OF SPEC!]
toe total 0.15 (0.05 0.75) 0.10
thrust angle 0.0 (0.2) 0.1
(the "front/rear" doesn't really match up with the other columns on their printout - i have reflected that discrepancy above).
all the secondary angles are unchanged according to their report and are within the spec #s on their printout so i am not mentioning those.
i put in a call to the service rep and asked him to comment on why after a week and $250, two of the alignment numbers are still out of spec. i do pity the guy for having to put up with my incredible nitpicking. but hey, that's the way it goes. now to go look up that Jorge guys info.
while the new alignment is still technically out of spec according to their own #s i am fairly confident it will be better than before. they sure worked on it long enough. i don't think the bushings are blown - the car does not wander during heavy braking at all. i gotta admit i'm wondering if i should have gone the extra $$$ for a C6 vette. bro-in-law just got a red C6 convertible with all options. i haven't seen him in a year but i told him that the fact he bought a vette tells me that he is way more bald than when i last saw him. inbetween curses he told me i was right about that.
That's great! I have considered a Vette before; my primary reservation is the "look at me" styling. I don't like to feel like I'm on display. That said, if I wanted one that bad, I would probably go ahead and get one anyway. I like the subdued styling of the GTO (not to mention the much easier ingress/egress).
I have to agree with you; one obvious symptom of blown bushings is the wandering under hard braking. In fact, that's how I ruined mine; bedding new pads after converting to a set of 05 front brake calipers/rotors. After returning from said bedding, noticed two pools of fluid under the front of the car. Upon closer examination, witnessed drips coming from front strut bushings. Amazing.
i deal with repairing similar sorts of "possible design flaws" in my job (software) and have a lot of sympathy for the mechanic who has this case. it would truly suck if a "re-take" like this ends up coming out of the mechanics pocket. he is working hard and deserves to get paid. i know that for most repairs the mechanic's pay is determined out of a "reference book" which lists # of hours for a particular job. if the mechanic finishes the job quicker, that's extra $ for him. if he is slow to finish, that's his own time & money being lost. so if "alignment" is listed in this book as just 1 hour labor, this mechanic is really getting screwed.
i have already notified the GM guy Jorge via voice mail of the situation and will leave him a followup too.
if the dealer fails again after this 2nd try i'm not sure what i will do. maybe find an aftermarket speed-shop with whatever it takes to get the job done.
it didn't work though - i've mentioned here before that the GTO gets an incredible amount of attention on the road - EVERY TIME i drive it. kids yell at me constantly (usually good things). other (young) drivers start to drive maniacally after they see my goat - either to try to race me or just to position in traffic so they can see the car better or hang out their window while yelling and gesticulating at me to "goose" the goat - they want to hear the exhaust sound. the exhaust sure does sound awesome - and the other drivers antics are funny the first few times but gets old really fast.
from what i've seen the GTO gets substantially M O R E attention than does C6, a camaro, or a hopped up mustang.
if i keep this car much longer my next step might be to buy an 04/smooth hood and get it painted/installed, and to remove the rear spoiler too. one concern i have about the spoiler is that i plan to road-course the car after warranty is over - if i keep it that long. maybe the road course speeds are slow enough that spoiler would not add any value...
My 2 questions; i keep hearing about slow seat motors as i will have 2 car seats in the back.
is access to back seat too much of a pain and i should look for 4 door or stick with my 4runner.
and i will drive it all winter here in ohio, is this possible as well?
test drove the '06 with 6 speed, and afraid to go back to play with car seats in and out for fear i will buy no matter what.!
thanks!
Those that are currently leasing, what is your lease and alolowed mileage. What was the negotiated residual value? Was it difficult to negotiate?
I am thinking that I shoudl be able to get a decent lease on a left over 2005.
Regarding back seat access, there's lots of room back there, it can be difficult to get back there - this is dependent on how big and limber you are. You will have to make the call here.
There are many folks who drive their GTO year-round - though dedicated winter snow tires would be a strong suggestion no matter what (Dunlop WinterSport are the most common winter tires). On one hand, the GTO, being designed and sold primarily in Australia and also the Middle East, isn't necessarily engineered for cold weather. It's not the engine or tranny, it would be the interior (i.e. no heated seats - time to visit PFYC.com) passenger comfort/climate control that would concern me (i.e. there aren't any under-seat heat ducts for rear passengers - just the blower behind the center console).
Also note that the defrost mode requires you to manually turn on the AC to defog windows - and the airflow isn't as much as it should be. I haven't had a problem driving my car from April through part of November, but I do store it for the winter... but again, not everyone does. I suppose if I had to drive my car in the winter, I would... just glad that I don't have to.
--Robert
i'm going to have scotty in engineering
beam the spoiler and vented hood out of there.
imagine how fast this car would eat
snow tires considering what happens with the factory alignment & tires.
It is not a great winter car because of the rear wheel drive, high power and heating system. I drive it in winter but not in snow. When I have had to it has been fine but you need to take it easy in the snow or wet because there is so much power back there on the rear wheels. Heating is not good. It takes forever to warm up. Defogging is okay with the air con on the front but the side windows are very slow.
In summary. Car seats no problem and slow seats no problem for the kids to get by. Not great in winter. But fun every time you take it out.
The car takes approximately the same time to warm up as my previous cars which included a mercury cougar. Side defroster is not very efficient but I doubt that the quality of the side window defoster would make much if any difference in my decision to buy any car.
and no way would a little side window frost stop me from looking more seriously at this car in the coming weeks.
What residual value did they give you after 4 years? Was there a big difference between the residual value of 15,000 vs 10,000 annual mileage restriction?
Do you regret leasing?
on the blown bushings, i spoke to the shop manager who said that the worst were the 2004s and much fewer in 2005 and 2006.
i was wondering if anyone has found out if they can get the body side molding which goes in the side crease from holden. it is obvious that the crease can house molding.
fyi, my favorite dash cover dealer (here in florida we must cover the dash if the car sits in the sun) has the gto template, and in a week or two, i will get that.
that's it for now.
rr70
including $680 for the 2004 hood. upper end of the range is if i want blending. i told them i'm color-blind anyway. they think maybe blending won't be necessary. even so, that is big $. maybe well worth it for me though. i suppose another body shop could give lower quote, but a big factor for me is the time-cost of dealing with pickup/dropoff too. it's nice if they can do the body work and re-fix the alignment at the same shop.
in alignment news, a factory rep called me and told me a case #, due to that voice message i left for Jorge @ GM regarding strut-rub/etc. (supposedly no strut rub on my goat- i always avoid maxxing the steering.)
I drive by a high school on my way to work. The other day, the PE class was outside doing jumping jacks when I drove by. I watched with a smile as I turned all the heads of the males in the class. I do hate the tailgaters that just have to get a closeup-I normally use this as an excuse to "disappear" down the road.
The dealership took two tries to solve the problem. First time in, they didn't listen well to my complaint and simply did the 'fix' on the front seat they found in their computers .. not the correct solution. The second time, they hooked me up with the 'seat specialist' and he fixed it in under 5 minutes. Robert's salient advice to give the guy a ride worked well ... as soon as he sat down in the car, he knew it was a problem./
ANyways, all fixed and driving even faster than ever. Took the El Cajon pass up out of LA ... love the uphill power.
Looking at the adjustable sway bar kit from Hotchkiss ... anybody installed it? How long did it take to install at the speed shop? What setting is the best? Got a quote for over 300 dollars for the kit ... seems excessive.
Thanks guys ...
The lease works fine for me.
The whole time I was on the phone with Pontiac cust service and finally someone at the Exec offices (arrogant [non-permissible content removed])to get this resolved. From the start I wanted GM to extend my warranty but they refused to do anything but give me 1 years oil changes for the over 153 days my car was out of service due to warranty work. I have contacted the BBB and it seems to be resolved. Pontiac/GM now has to repurchase my car give me back what I paid for the car+actually trade value+tax+dealer fee+interest -mileage -GM card money. I'm lucky that I don't have this car as my everyday car I would have gotten back less ($.32 a mile) :lemon: I had a 2004 GTO Black on Black 6sp. I'm going to miss that car it was a very nice car put the problems were mind blowing... I might pick up a used one in a few years when all the bugs have been worked out or they are made here in the states.