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Ford Five Hundred/Mercury Montego



  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    I don't compare the 300C to the 500 at all, and wouldn't cross shop them. But between the two, the 300C would come closer to attracting my attention, just by layout.

    I'm more interested, sedan wise, in a Volvo S-80, or a Town Car, should they decide to put a blower in the A/C unit someday again and spruce up the interior a LOT.
  • lbolt22lbolt22 Posts: 2
    The exterior of the 300C will win buyers, and the 3.5L will fool customers into thinking it outperforms the 500. But...

    It's true: The 500's 3.0L Duratec mated to a CVT will drag a 3.5L to a standstill. It's not about the rated HP. It's the transmission function.

    Still, I'd bet that with all that mass being dragged around by a 3.0L, some customers are still going to perceive a lack of performance.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    Would those be the ones who try the six speed automatic, or would they be the ones who read the specs and never even test drove the car at all because of what they think they KNOW or would they be the ones who test drove the CVT equipped version and still thought the Daimler with the 3.5 V6 was faster? Or would they be all of them?

    Ford NEEDS to get that larger V6 in this car as quickly as possible. Then again, should gas prices go up again and stay there...
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    Pretty much what it boils down to is a consumer's preference. If someone is cross shopping both, and doesn't test drive the 500, they simply aren't giving it a chance. And if doing so, they still dislike the 500 powertrain/performance, they'll only be using it as an excuse to get the 300.

    But again, the car isn't aimed at the 300, so if someone is cross shopping them it'll be because it's a large sedan, and that's pretty much what they are looking for that both are similar in.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    I don't like 'em much anymore. Just got my Infiniti out of the body shop today, and really don't care to be dwarfed in traffic by the likes of even Trailblazers and Rodeos, which is reality anymore. Which is why most of my fleet consists of vans & SUVs now. A tall sedan has potential to ameliorate this condition somewhat though, which is why I'm interested in what Ford may do with this Five - Hundred thing. Not sure the 300 is considered a tall car, or is it just a tall beltline?

    Anxious to see a Five hundred on the dirt someday.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    The 300 is tall, but also has a higher beltline. I have very wide shoulder's so it didn't help any seeing the beltline as high as it is. Gave me a claustrophobic feeling. Then sitting in the 500 right after, felt as if I were on top of the world, and I was actually able to cross my legs in the back seat.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    THAT'S more like it!
  • grbeckgrbeck Posts: 2,361
    I've driven SUVs (a 2003 Oldsmobile Bravada and 2000 Toyota 4Runner) and don't care for the extra height. I prefer a vehicle that doesn't feel as though it's going to tip when rounding a curve.

    The Five Hundred seems like a good compromise - higher seating position for those who like SUVs, but better handling for those who prefer passenger cars.

    Interestingly, the Chrysler 300 and Dodge Magnum don't LOOK tall. The Magnum looks extremely low...almost as though the roof has been chopped for the "custom car" look.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Yeah, like a 49 Mercury....
  • mgpmgpmgpmgp Posts: 15
    The 500 and 300 have nearly the same dimensions (length, width, weight), except:

    1) 500 is a little about 2 inches taller
    2) 300 has a much longer wheelbase
    3) 500 has a little wider stance (track)
  • mrmoose000mrmoose000 Posts: 10
    i'm jumping up and down right now

    i am the biggest Yamaha fan and almost as big of ford fan!!! my two favorite companies merging powers to form one car!!! Yamaha Ford V-8!!!

    i have a big old Yamaha sticker on the back of my car ... which is a Ford explorer

    now what does everybody know about this engine?

    i work for yamaha golf cars and what i know about yamaha motor work is that they build strong, reliable, and courses only have to fill up their carts like 6 times a at work i saw the first truly defective engine come out of a golf cart...first one in two years(except for that one)...Yamaha engines are bulletproof... i can't wait...

  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    MrMoose, don't get too excited. The engine is going into a Volvo, might even be the Jag 4.2L but with Yamaha heads, that hasn't been sorted out yet.

    Last time Yamaha did a V8 for Ford it was the 3.4L DOHC V8 found in the last Taurus SHO, and it wasn't very reliable and started giving owner's issues around 40K miles. Hopefully this time around, the issue won't be repeated.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    I have always found that to be a strange marriage, especially for larger engines. I could see an alliance to build ultra small ones - but with Ford's history with large v-8s and Ford Racing, why Yamaha heads? I don't have a problem with it, just don't get it.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    It's a very low volume product. Many times it's easier to subcontract the work out, and let someone else worry about the issue.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    Many moons ago, I warned of a possible job action delaying introduction of the Five Hundred/Freesytle/Montego. I was quickly informed by others on this board that I was not correct and there was no way that could happen.

    It appears it may still happen. I sure hope not, but it may:
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    I think I remember that, John.....
  • fdcapt2fdcapt2 Posts: 122
    I just finished reading the article on Ford's problem with the union, and how it might affect the production if they decide to strike. Maybe it's all a ploy so they can stall for extra time so they can get those 3.5 motors in the 500/Montego????? Just kidding, but I can dream. I do remember John posting something about this situation awhile ago.
  • grbeckgrbeck Posts: 2,361
    You'd think the union would understand that holding up production could backfire on Ford and the workers. Today's auto market is fiercely competitive, and there are plenty of other choices out there.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    Let's think of it ths way... if there were such a ploy, they would really be screwing themselves over. Once a contract runs out, Ford could shift production to another plant to worker's that would give them less issues. So it wouldn't be in their best behalf... if it's one those issues that you might get Ford now, but your gonna get it right back when the contract isn't renewed and the specific plant no longer receives production of any kind and worse, work shifted to Mexico.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    On somewhat related side news I mentioned about the Volvo getting a V8.... today Volvo publically announced they would be producing 10-12K of the 4.4L V8 making around 320HP, to be used on the Volvo XC90.

    And as I mentioned earlier, this engine will make it to the S80 thereafter...
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,935
    "this engine will make it to the S80 thereafter"

    With AWD?
    - Ray
    Wondering what that 4.4L V8 will make for HP / TQ . . .
    2016 BMW 340i
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    Yes, just to avoid the common issues that FWD inhibit when they have powerfull engines (like Cadillac). Look for around 320HP and equal torque.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Great news, but how the hell can they shoehorn that thing under the hood?
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    Which is why they commissioned Yamaha to do it. They already had experience shoehorning the 3.4L V8 SHO in the Taurus.
  • fdcapt2fdcapt2 Posts: 122
    Last week I had the opportunity to participate in something called "Auto Show in Motion", or something like that. It was a day of driving just about every car you can think of. They were advertising that they had over 150 vehicles at the show, and it wasn't far from the truth. It was a GM production, and a drivers dream. At each separate model distinction, they had a short road course set up with road cones. They had many other brands that you were also able to drive and compare to the GM models. They had Lexus', BMW's, Mercedes', Mustangs, Vettes, Hummers, complete with mountains of dirt to climb, SUV's, GTO's, trucks, and a bunch of top shelf luxury and passenger cars. Being a Ford man for many years, I was impressed in how well the Ford Motor Company vehicles stacked up. The Mazda 6 was impressive. I had never driven a Volvo before, and I was really impressed. The Jaguar was OK, but I really was expecting a lot more. They also had a large collection of other Ford Motor Company vehicles. If this show ever gets into your area, DON'T MISS IT!!!! Some guy who heard me praising the Ford vehicles asked me if I knew when the Duratec 3.0 was first introduced. I wasn't sure, but I told him I used to have an '87 Taurus LX that I'm almost positive had that engine. I remember the salesman telling me I had a choice of engines. One having 155 HP, or the Duratec with 200HP. Does anyone have an answer to this question?? I tried to research it but came up empty, even the Ford dealer near me drew a blank. Thanks for any help, and sorry for the novel that precedes the question.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    The 3.0L Duratec DOHC V6 was introduced in the "Ovoid Styled" Taurus for 1996. The 2.5L is also a Duratec design, and that first debuted in the 2nd generation Ford Probe which I believe came out in 93. (Mazda had the Mx6 clone). And that 2.5L was used in the 626, Contour, Mystique, etc.

    The other 3.0L in Ford's family is the Vulcan which is OHV old-tech design. Bulletproof, but antiquated. That itself makes 155HP and has been around for almost 2 decades.
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 25,314
    I thought that the 626 and Probe used the Mazda 2.5l, which was not the Duratech 2.5l used in the Contique, and later the MPV.

    2015 Hyundai Sonata 2.4i Limited Tech (mine), 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's) and 2015 Jetta Sport (daughter's)

  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    They were the same.... Just as Mazda6 uses a 3.0L Duratec V6, but because they install their own heads and such, they don't need to use the word "Duratec" if they don't wish to. Ironically, this year "Duratec" has had a letter added to it, to "Duratech".

    The foundation is the same, sometimes a bit altered.
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Posts: 1,565
    Back in 1987 you probably had your choice of the 3.0 (Vulcan) or the 3.8. Both were pushrod V-6's. Ford also put a 4 banger in for the first few years but it was underpowered and not very popular.

    The Vulcan 3.0 actually was quite an engine for it's time. I went from a Chevy Celebrity "iron Duke 4 cylinder to a 1990 Taurus Vulcan and it was like night and day performance-wise for both the engine and the car, and the Vulcan got much better mileage than that old POS Iron Duke.

    As ANT14 says the 3.0 Duratech came along in 1996, and is a very sweet engine in the 2000 Taurus SES I drive now. I think it will do very well as a base engine in the 500 and will perform well with the new transmissions available despite the added weight the 500 will have.

    Note the tweaks Mazda put into the Duratech didn't seem to do a lot for acceleration performance compared to Ford's version in the Taurus. Check back on my post 601 for what Consumer report measured.
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