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Ford Five Hundred/Mercury Montego



  • venus537venus537 Posts: 1,443
    too bad the industry and the market place don't agree with you pertaining to the accord and camry.

    not that the 500 is a direct competitor to the camcords. if this car takes off kudos for ford for having a trend setter.
  • Unlike the camry's or the Accords, I am guessing the first recall will be six months from now with about ten by the end of the first year. The car will probably breakdown once in the first year and be dead by the third year. Ford is a huge culprit of designing parts that break the fastests in order to keep people buying new cars. I don't understand why people keep feeding Ford their money when they won't even produce a decent DEPENDABLE car with good FUEL MILEAGE. If they could do that, I would start buying American cars. Also, by the third year, it will probably be worth only 25% percent of what you paid for it unlike the honda which has much better resell value.
  • samnoesamnoe Posts: 731
    ANT: Do you know the Lb.-Ft. of torque the new 3.5 will have?

    Horsepower will range from about 240 to 280 as I understand from many of your previous posts.

    But what about Lb.-Ft. of torque?
  • In what way? This is a car that has just been released, and even staunch Ford fans are waiting for a 3.5L engine that will come after a couple of years. I do agree that the trunk space is HUGE. For everything else, this is another dud from the Ford stable.
  • With a little searching, I can see you like little cheap Hondas.

    "I paid 15,994 for my Civc EX 4-door automatic w/o aribags"
    So go outside an play with your little car.
  • nedc2nedc2 Posts: 192
    "In what way?"

    Overall packaging, not just trunk space. The Five Hunded is basically a sedan based on a car based crossover,the Freestyle. One sits about 3-5 inches higher in the Five Hundred than almost any other modern sedan, as a result ingress-egress is easier, visibility is improved, the "Command Seating ©" hype is no joke, passenger room is astounding, etc. It really is a sedan that appeals to people who thought they'd be forced to buy a minivan or SUV to meet their needs. And if you'd drive one you'd realize that the current drive train is more than adequate in this car. No , it's not a rocketship, but it is quite sprightly. And it makes a terrific rolling office, which is really important if you've ever had to work principally out of a car.
  • Which do you think is a better choice? If I am correct, the brochure has the 6-speed getting better mileage. I live in Florida.
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Posts: 1,565
    I would bet that real world mileage may not be much different between the 6 speed and CVT, or may even favor the CVT.

    EPA test procedures and published numbers are becoming woefully out of date in dealing with new drive train technology, in my opinion.
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Posts: 1,565
    Spoken like a true Ford hater.

    If customers bother to educate themselves about the entire drive train, not just focus on the horsepower number, the Five Hundred is right up there with the competition on actual acceleration performance. Once the press starts publishing actual acceleration data, not just seat of the pants feel especially with the CVT version, maybe this issue will be put to bed.

    The "Staunch Ford fans" posting here that think they need a bigger engine are likely not the intended market for this car anyway. Also, it remains to be determined if they are staunch Ford fans posting, or Honda fans like yourself who likely wouldn't buy a Ford under any circumstances.

    If the Five Hundred truly accelerates nearly as well or better than Avalon, Camry, Impala, and all but the Hemi version 300, it will be fine for almost all of the market it is intended for.
  • I have been waiting for this car for some time, and was one of the first few at our ford dealership to drive one. The command seating is fine, but the body roll is pronounced. As you point out, it may be a sure fit for some folks, but I was expecting a lot more from Ford in its year of the car. The interior plastics are downright cheap, the radio interface is the same as on older Fords, the car looks like an elongated Passat from the side (which isn't bad, but coming from Ford, I would have expected a more original shape). On top if it, Ford wants us to wait for 2007 (year of the engine???) to put in a more powerful engine.

    I agree many people don't want more powerful engines, but I have a strong feeling this car is going to replace the Crown Vic and Grand Marquis as the new standard taxicab, police car and regular rental. This is not bad, but people don't generally buy cars for personal and see all taxicabs looking like them.

    My major issue with Ford is that being the behemoth it is, it still finds itself in a position where it is unable to build a world class car, or more appropriately, sell on in the US. They missed the bus by not introducing the European Montego, which is a car that will make you think that is not made by the same company. We US buyers are also not sold the new Focus, because I believe that the current one sells well with the fleet sales. A real pity.

    Coming back to the 500, why doesn't Ford put in a Nissan 3.5L engine in a version, till they are at least able to get their own engine out?
  • Why is it difficult to actually discuss something with out calling names like true Ford hater? Is that because you don't agree to what I say? If I was such a Honda fan as you say, what am I doing in a 500 discussion, if I am not the target buyer? Do you think I have so much spare time that I will go to each and every Non-Honda post and start deriding cars there? The fact is that I have been waiting for this car for a long time, and am disappointed.

    By the way, I am one of the few who always checks out any new car with a clear mind, with no preconceptions of any kind. I have owned a Nissan, Chrysler, Mitsubshi, Focus, Toyota and a Honda, and I love the new Mustang, and will also probably buy one once the SVT version comes out.

    In my opinion, this car (500) needs a larger engine, and that's also what most of the same publications that you refer to will reiterate once the actual numbrs start coming out. With the weight it is carrying, I would be hard pressed to believe it putting decent acceleration numers, stay tuned for that.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    ANT: Do you know the Lb.-Ft. of torque the new 3.5 will have?

    Horsepower will range from about 240 to 280 as I understand from many of your previous posts.

    But what about Lb.-Ft. of torque? "

    Torque will be in the same range numbers as horsepower.

    "They missed the bus by not introducing the European Montego"

    There's no Montego in the european market. If you mean Mondeo, they did sell it here, under another name. And that didn't sell profittably because of size, and market demographics. But if you still want one, go down to Mexico, they sell them there.
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Posts: 792
    It is funny how many people mention the Passat, and forget the original Taurus. The open greenhouse with three side windows and no thick pillars looks far more like the original Taurus than a Passat.

    Since the cars are now out, anyone who has not driven the cars really should avoid commenting on the acceleration.

    I was in Europe in August and the European Mondeo is nice, but substantially smaller than the Five Hundred / Montego. Both car lines look like they are from the same family, and both look good.

    Attacks by Honda owners / dealers / employees are good news for Ford, as it probably indicates that they are worried about the new competition. If so, the upcoming Ford Fusion & mercury Milan & Lincoln Zephyr will really upset them.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Yep, the worst thing would be for no reaction at all to be coming out about these cars at all. Love and hate are passion both, and will make the car successful.
  • My bad, I meant Mondeo. Ford sold the earlier Mondeo as the contour, but I am referring to the next gen Mondeo, a car that has won rave reviews all over the world. Now that was a car that showcases ford's might as a car maker, and I wish they had sold it here, at least as a Mercury.
  • Have you driven the Mondeo? I suspect not. Secondly, I don't understand why a comment that is not agreed with brings out so much negativity. True, I currently own a Honda, that doesn't mean I am a Honda loyalist and just attacking Ford here.

    As for the Passat like looks, have you compared the 500 and Passat side views? Do and you will understand what I mean.
  • Coming back to acceleration, can you point out any figures? I am curious as to well a 201hp engine can move a 4000lbs plus car.

    Secondly, if I feel that the upcoming Fusion/Zephyr are really good when they come out, I will go ahead and buy one, since I choose cars based on the car itself, rather than the name on the hood
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Posts: 1,565
    Ok, I suppose I was a little harsh with you, however after reading this board and participating on occasion, it seems the same "underpowered" issue keeps arising again and again, however the few people who have actually driven one seem to have few complaints, and some of the press reviewers of the CVT version comment negatively based on "feel" as opposed to actual test data. "Feel" can be very misleading.

    There is not much test data out yet, though some allude to 0-60 in about 7.5 seconds, which is more than adequate in this segment.

    This car is not, I repeat is not, going to appeal to anyone looking for extreme performance anyway, so a combination of good acceleration with decent fuel efficiency will probably eventually outlast the in-your-face styling of the 300C/Magnum, once the initial feeding frenzy is over.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    "Now that was a car that showcases ford's might as a car maker, and I wish they had sold it here, at least as a Mercury. "

    Yes, I was pushing for the Mondeo to come stateside, but unfortunately people aren't willing to pay much of a premium, for a better car. Research shows, if your going to charge XXX amount for a specific vehicle, people perceive more $$$, larger the vehicle should be. They have a hard time swallowing a VW Jetta V6 around $26K still classified as a subcompact.

    Plus issues with factory output, U.A.W. not wanting to import such a vehicle, etc. If the Mondeo were imported here, you would be looking at MSRP's around $27K-34K the the time it hits showrooms. Granted, some people might be willing to pay that, if you slam a Lincoln badge on it, but without a certain sales goal, the plan wouldn't be economicall feasable.

    But the Mondeo in Europe will be moving on to another platform, another mission, shared with Volvo in it's next generation coming out in a few years. If you like the Mondeo (if you have driven it that is), then you will much more enjoy the Fusion ST/Zephyr/Milan that will debut next year.

    "As for the Passat like looks, have you compared the 500 and Passat side views?"

    J.Mays who designed previously for VW, now works for Ford which can explain why the 500 looks much like a Passat, and why the interiors have been upgraded in many vehicles.

    "Coming back to acceleration, can you point out any figures? I am curious as to well a 201hp engine can move a 4000lbs plus car"

    AMCI independent testing, concluded the 500 reached 0-60Sec in 7.35 seconds. It's been printed in a few teaser brochures, and on the Ford website.
  • no hard feelings badgerfan, I was just commenting as a car guy when I said that it should have had a strong V6, even if just as a halo car. Ford had the expertise, they just need to let the car guys decide product more than the bean counters (is that possible these days, anywhere?)

    I understand this car is not for buyers looking for extreme performance, but I really liked what I saw on the auto show circuit, and have been waiting for this car to come out. Anyway, i am going to revisit the dealer once more, and check out various trim levels.
  • I drove a Mondeo when visiting India, where it is a a premium car, adn I can tell you, the ride and handling characteristics were astounding.

    7.35 seconds to 60 is pretty darn good for a car of its heft. Somehow it felt slower to me, but I am going to check it out once more. Will keep you posted.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    That's a common perception because of the CVT.... people expect shiftpoints equate thrust. Just like I have tested vehicles with much higher horsepower, but because of the insulation and well controlled NVH I perceive it as being slow, since you really don't feel much going on and feel as I'm driving some bloated Buick (Lexus models).
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Posts: 1,565
    Maybe Ford needs to put in a new display in their dashboard driver information center: elapsed time 0-30, 0-60, 45-65, time to 1/4 mile, etc.

    Of course the do gooders and lawyers would have a field day with this. "Oh no! Ford is encouraging racing and illegal speeding!"

    Oh, well, I can dream!
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    There are a few vehicles out there with G-force indicators when turning and such. SO far no lawsuits yet over that, but give it time....

    Just how some people (that wouldn't even buy the vehicle) comment on how the Town Car should have a 300HP (Cobra engine) to compete with Caddilac's Northstar, and here I am cringing wondering....

     "How many old people are actually going to drive into storefronts with that much force and blame that the accelerator got stuck, or the car suddenly jumped out of gear"....
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Guess I'm not old enough for the geezer Town Car yet......
  • I was actually looking at the ford five hundred otherwise I wouldn't be in this room. I didn't like it at all. Looks like something my grandmother would drive and then complain how much gas it uses.

    By the way, my so called "little cheap honda" will just pass you right by without stopping when you are stranded on the highway with your broken down ford!

    Can someone explain to me why you are so interested in Fords? I always get interested in them but then go to the department of transportations website they have an extremely bad track record with recalls and the FORD motor company has done practically nothing for the environment. And don't reply to me with "ford escape hybrid" because that is a joke so they can make a claim they are helping the environment.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    well, if you aren't now interested in the Five Hundred, may I humbly suggest you take your Honda comments over to the Honda rooms and have fun?

    As someone who BOUGHT and drives a Five Hundred, I find your Ford reliablity and resale comments to be opinions based on no data.
  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Posts: 1,722
    Is somebody complaining about the 500 getting 29 MPG on the highway? Anybody else find that odd. Now I could go get some smaller, lighter sedans with V6 that get around 26 or 27 HWY I guess, but that 29 is bad? Huh?

    That milage number I think is good and has actually interested me more in the car than if it got say 25-26 or so. Someone's going to have to explain that one to me I guess.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    I just got back from a trip to Cinci in my new AWD SEL Five Hundred. I got 27 mpg. In an AWD car heavier than my old Impala.

    Nope, I am not complaining, though I am still getting over the shock of a tank of gas costing $35!!!!
  • nedc2nedc2 Posts: 192
    I disagree about the plastics, they don't look or feel cheap, in fact they feel quite substantial, more so than the Accord's for instance. The radio is a generic Ford item, but it has the advantage of being rather easily replaced or upgraded unlike some units which are integrated into the dash. I detected surprisingly little body roll even when tossing the car through a hairpin turn on the Belle Isle course, at a speed well beyond what I'd ever try on the street (I'm sorry I can't tell exactly how fast that was, but I was going over 50 at the end of the straightaway when I tapped the brakes before entering the turn) I was looking where I was going at that point, and at the Detroit River was was too close for comfort to my left, not at the speedo.
    The shape is no more Passat-like than a Nissan Altima, in fact if you are really familiar with Fords you will see many styling cues from other Fords including the 92 Crown Vic, which had the arched three window greenhouse long before VW/Audi adopted it, the cars tail resembles the mid 90's taurus, though with different lights, and also the last version of the Mazda Protege sedan.
    It'd make a terrific taxi. I for one don't see that as a problem, if a car can hold up to taxi abuse it has alot going for it. Mercedes cars had been quite popular as taxis in Europe. I really don't see how that hurts a cars image.

    The European Ford you're thinking of is the Mondeo--not the Montego, which is the Mercury version of the Five Hundred, it is a substantially smaller car, smaller than the Taurus, about Mazda 6 sized, a nice car but one that's due for replacement in a couple of years, possibly by a car derived from the Mazda 6/CD3 platform as is the Ford Fusion sedan(not the Euro hatchback)which is due out in a year. There are a number of reasons why the new C1 Focus isn't coming here, at least not 'til the 2008 model year, most have to do with more, some with plant scheduling; among the reasons are the consolidation of all Focus production in Michigan next year, the conversion of the Hermosillo MX plant to CD3 platform production, the cost of investing in new tooling so shortly after a styling refresh, price competition/overlap with the Fusion, etc.

    I'm pretty sure Ford's alliance with Nissan ended after the Quest/Villager, though there is a rumour that they may be buying some CVTs for the the Fusion from Jatco if Batavia can't meet production. I also don't think Ford wants that 3.5 l in the Five Hundred now, they took great pains to make sure the car's price maxes out at under $30K before destination--loaded. That is a selling point, you know that if they put a bigger engine from another supplier e.g. Nissan or more likely Yamaha, and DVD Navigation, satellite radio, etc. they'd wind up with a car that maxes out at $35K to $40K, and critics like you would be comparing that price unfavourably to a 4 cylinder Accord's or Camry's base price, and the car's refinement unfavourably to $60K-$80K Lexus' or Audi's.
  • grbeckgrbeck Posts: 2,361
    I've seen both the Five Hundred and Montego, and sat in the Five Hundred (SEL version). THIS Honda owner was impressed, although I maintain it is possible to like both Hondas and Fords, a concept that seems foreign to some fellow posters.

    Anyway, I especially like the Montego Premium version, without the AWD (for the slightly lower ride height).

    I'd like to test drive one, but I don't want to waste the sales rep's time, as I'm not likely to be in the market for another 2-3 years, at the earliest.

    When I sat in the Five Hundred, I was impressed with the command seating position and the design. But even more impressive was the ROOM. The back seat is huge.

    As for the never-ending controversy about performance: 0-60 mph times don't concern me too much anymore, as I've pretty much given up participating in the occasional impromptu red-light grand prix event.

    My concerns are performance when merging (accelerating from about 30 mph to 70 mph); and being able to cruise along at 75-80 mph with the air conditioning engaged and not having the engine sound and feel as though it is going to expire in agony within the next mile.
  • dlydrvrdlydrvr Posts: 18
    Give it a rest. It's a mid size family car. That means people driving with kids in the car. A car that you let your teenage son or daughter borrow. If you want a car designed for performance driving, an Accord, Camry or 500 should not be on your list.
  • I guess we would have to agree to disagree on the plastics quality and fit and finish. On the radio interface, I still believe that an all new car should have a different interface than the one it is replacing.

    Coming back to the power issue, at its current price point, its not competing with 4 cyl camcords, but with cars that have a lot more power, not that all of that is needed. However, numbers do make a huge difference, and any auto marketing type can tell you that.

    I again disagree on the taxi cab image issue, IMHO it matters to a private buyer, not to say that its a fault with the car.

    As for the Mondeo, I wasn't saying that it should have replaced the 500, just that Ford should have made it available to US buyers, what with near luzury sedans doing so well these days, and badging it as a Mercury would have been ideal.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    The faceplate of the radio is the newer type. It was just introduced in last years F-150, and Freestar. Now it's debuting in the 500/Montego/Freestyle, Mustang. The old radio faceplate is what is seen in this years Escape.
  • My bad again, I looked at it and it looked very familiar. After reading all the comments here, I find myself checking out the car again and again on teh internet, and will also check it out at the dealer once more this weekend, with a longer drive. This may be the perfect replacement for the wifes 90k altima.

    One of the things that I am concerned about is that the MSRP is pretty high compared to other midsize cars, so I am assuming one can be had a little later with rebates and discounts.
  • if the 500. Thats V6 standard. It is not expensive relative to other midsize cars. For example:

    The Honda Accord EX V6 starts at: $23,800
    The Nissan Altima 3.5 SE starts at: $23,150
    The Pontiac Grand Prix starts at: $23,560
    The Toyota Camry LE V6 starts at: $22,920

    The Ford Five Hundred SE starts at: $22,795

    Now only is it right in between all of the competition, but it undercuts most by a few hundred bucks. Thats not the only thing. If you can do without cabin air filtration system (or just get it out of showroom) the Five Hundred has way more room than any of the above mentioned. The Grand Prix has the poorest excuse for a backseat of all of the above. And the foreign brands all have 4 cyls standard, unlike the Five Hundred.
    IMO if your just a practical buyer, the five hundred is the best choice, even w/o the 3.5L. I mean, no one will give this kind of interrior, for this kind of price. And no one can give you this kind of back seat for this price.
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Posts: 1,565

    Also, the base SE is equipped with 17" alloy wheels, and ABS, four wheel disc brakes, traction control, single disc CD player, keypad and remote, etc.

    No need to apologize for the base equipment load on the base Five Hundred, either.

    So, compared to what is the price too high?
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Posts: 792
    And, nobody can give you this kind of trunk for any price. Yes, the Five Hundred / Montego are very high on the value per dollar scale.
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    slight clarification- thats the Accord LX V6 price. The FiveHundred and Montego do indeed offer an excellent value for the dollar given the space offered, unlike Fords wildly out of control MSRP on the unimpressive Freestar/Monterey. That said, the Accord, Camry, and Altima mentioned all have 4 wheel disc brakes with ABS standard, as well as remote keyless entry (no keypad though) and at least a single disc CD player, so the feature content is fairly similar. Additionally, the Accord's standard side and curtain setup is very noteworthy to me.

  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    And let's not forget the most important factor, the car isn't made to compete with the aforementioned bread and butter sedans... It's a direct competitor for Avalon, Impala which are considered premium sedan offerings. If your looking for Altima, CamCord replacements, then the Ford Fusion will fit that bill next year.
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Posts: 792
    ANT14 - Your point brings up an interesting possibility. Since the Five Hundred / Montego are good values compared to the Camry/Accord/Altima, the Fusion / Milan may be even better values and therefore very strong competition for those other cars. We don't yet know about the Avalon prices, but it seems certain that they will be way higher, and the Impala is downright primitive compared to the Five Hundred.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    The Fusion/Milan will also be priced aggresively, and offer I-4 standard which is what the majority of Cam-Cords sales are roughly 82-85% for the I-4 offering. As for dynamics, it'll be very atheletic since it's based off the Mazda6.

    The pricing of the 500 will obviously attract people who are simply buying a sedan, without the premium connotation added to it. They think, "Hmmm, I have a budget of $25K, what should I buy...". IN this senario they will shop all the aforementioned vehicles. If size/safety/value is their top priority, then suddenly they might buy a 500 instead based on those merits for the given budget.

    It's as if your buying a vehicle, and you see you can either have a fully loaded smaller vehicle, or step up to a decently equipped vehicle for the same price. And this is another area where the 500 should do well in.
  • Hi guys. Just test drove one in Mercury event near shopping mall. Earned $25 certificate test-driving Mercury Montego, that was immediately utilized by my wife in the mall:) I drove both FWD 6-speed and AWD with CVT. Though acceleration is adequate for both of them, I still like CVT more - smooth and fast acceleration. Handling is good, certainly better than Avalon, ride is smooth and controlled. Engine sound is not as refined as Toyota or Mercedes, but it is okay with me, I like to hear engine revving.

    Now interior. I was impressed, interior quality and design reminds me VW Passat, though more modern one. Steering wheel is small and is a pleaser to hold. Seating position is a little bit too high for me, I would prefer more traditional seat. Especially pleasing are dark fake wood and gauge cluster quality. Strange thing is that shifter has only two driving positions: D and L.

    External design is a bit bland, could be more elegant, but it is not Audi anyway. But I espected better style from Mercury. Being upper scale brand it needs to differentiate itself more using upscale elegant styling.

    Now I will not buy Montego, because I do not need so much space and SUV like seating position. So I am interested more in arrival of dynamic and agile Milan as a possible replacement for my Sable.
  • In showroom conversations with other potential Buyers of the 500, I hear Avalon. Not the other cars mentioned above. There is general agreement that the Ford is bigger with cheaper materials (interior plastics, etc) and that the Avalon is more expensive. So it's not a "direct competitor". I get the impression buyers are trying to see what sacrifices they want to make with pursuing either.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    You may hear Avalon, but I traded my 00 Impala LS! :) Used to own a Grand Prix GTP, too.

    So far, I like the Five Hundred much better than either. And I LOVE the AWD, though I have had no known occasion to use it so far!
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    My thoughts resemble Johnclinelli's somewhat. I was much more impressed than I thought I'd be with what I experienced so far. I'm thinking a Lincoln version of this car could appeal to me more than I thought it would.
  • samnoesamnoe Posts: 731
    You forget to mention the new '05 Focus also use the same radio.

    Interesting, only the Freestar offers the option of a cassette player, and most other (Focus, 500/Freestyle) offers MP3 playing capability, but the Freestar not.

    Alpha: the (unimpressive) Freestar was priced high b/c of the big rebates (more than $7,000 at many dealers). So out of pocket money is competitive. The 500 is a new car, and (hopefully) will be selling quite well, and don't need rebates at this time.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    Yes correct, I just didn't want to type out all the vehicles... the Focus, and F-Series Super Duty also adopt the same faceplate. Everyone else stays either with the older variety, or their own series offering. Ranger has a Pioneer offering which it's faceplate is very different, as well as Crown Vic which has a traditional looking faceplate of scattered buttons.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    and the Five Hundred STILL doesn't offer even dealer installed Sirius.


    Real sad.
  • grbeckgrbeck Posts: 2,361
    ANT14: It's a direct competitor for Avalon, Impala which are considered premium sedan offerings.

    The Avalon I can accept as a premium sedan, but the Impala?!

    Anyway, the Five Hundred has really piqued my interest in the upcoming Fusion/Milan. Will the production cars debut this winter at the Detroit show?
This discussion has been closed.