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Ford Five Hundred/Mercury Montego
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Comments
not that the 500 is a direct competitor to the camcords. if this car takes off kudos for ford for having a trend setter.
Horsepower will range from about 240 to 280 as I understand from many of your previous posts.
But what about Lb.-Ft. of torque?
"I paid 15,994 for my Civc EX 4-door automatic w/o aribags"
So go outside an play with your little car.
Overall packaging, not just trunk space. The Five Hunded is basically a sedan based on a car based crossover,the Freestyle. One sits about 3-5 inches higher in the Five Hundred than almost any other modern sedan, as a result ingress-egress is easier, visibility is improved, the "Command Seating ©" hype is no joke, passenger room is astounding, etc. It really is a sedan that appeals to people who thought they'd be forced to buy a minivan or SUV to meet their needs. And if you'd drive one you'd realize that the current drive train is more than adequate in this car. No , it's not a rocketship, but it is quite sprightly. And it makes a terrific rolling office, which is really important if you've ever had to work principally out of a car.
TIA
EPA test procedures and published numbers are becoming woefully out of date in dealing with new drive train technology, in my opinion.
If customers bother to educate themselves about the entire drive train, not just focus on the horsepower number, the Five Hundred is right up there with the competition on actual acceleration performance. Once the press starts publishing actual acceleration data, not just seat of the pants feel especially with the CVT version, maybe this issue will be put to bed.
The "Staunch Ford fans" posting here that think they need a bigger engine are likely not the intended market for this car anyway. Also, it remains to be determined if they are staunch Ford fans posting, or Honda fans like yourself who likely wouldn't buy a Ford under any circumstances.
If the Five Hundred truly accelerates nearly as well or better than Avalon, Camry, Impala, and all but the Hemi version 300, it will be fine for almost all of the market it is intended for.
I agree many people don't want more powerful engines, but I have a strong feeling this car is going to replace the Crown Vic and Grand Marquis as the new standard taxicab, police car and regular rental. This is not bad, but people don't generally buy cars for personal and see all taxicabs looking like them.
My major issue with Ford is that being the behemoth it is, it still finds itself in a position where it is unable to build a world class car, or more appropriately, sell on in the US. They missed the bus by not introducing the European Montego, which is a car that will make you think that is not made by the same company. We US buyers are also not sold the new Focus, because I believe that the current one sells well with the fleet sales. A real pity.
Coming back to the 500, why doesn't Ford put in a Nissan 3.5L engine in a version, till they are at least able to get their own engine out?
By the way, I am one of the few who always checks out any new car with a clear mind, with no preconceptions of any kind. I have owned a Nissan, Chrysler, Mitsubshi, Focus, Toyota and a Honda, and I love the new Mustang, and will also probably buy one once the SVT version comes out.
In my opinion, this car (500) needs a larger engine, and that's also what most of the same publications that you refer to will reiterate once the actual numbrs start coming out. With the weight it is carrying, I would be hard pressed to believe it putting decent acceleration numers, stay tuned for that.
Horsepower will range from about 240 to 280 as I understand from many of your previous posts.
But what about Lb.-Ft. of torque? "
Torque will be in the same range numbers as horsepower.
"They missed the bus by not introducing the European Montego"
There's no Montego in the european market. If you mean Mondeo, they did sell it here, under another name. And that didn't sell profittably because of size, and market demographics. But if you still want one, go down to Mexico, they sell them there.
Since the cars are now out, anyone who has not driven the cars really should avoid commenting on the acceleration.
I was in Europe in August and the European Mondeo is nice, but substantially smaller than the Five Hundred / Montego. Both car lines look like they are from the same family, and both look good.
Attacks by Honda owners / dealers / employees are good news for Ford, as it probably indicates that they are worried about the new competition. If so, the upcoming Ford Fusion & mercury Milan & Lincoln Zephyr will really upset them.
As for the Passat like looks, have you compared the 500 and Passat side views? Do and you will understand what I mean.
Secondly, if I feel that the upcoming Fusion/Zephyr are really good when they come out, I will go ahead and buy one, since I choose cars based on the car itself, rather than the name on the hood
There is not much test data out yet, though some allude to 0-60 in about 7.5 seconds, which is more than adequate in this segment.
This car is not, I repeat is not, going to appeal to anyone looking for extreme performance anyway, so a combination of good acceleration with decent fuel efficiency will probably eventually outlast the in-your-face styling of the 300C/Magnum, once the initial feeding frenzy is over.
Yes, I was pushing for the Mondeo to come stateside, but unfortunately people aren't willing to pay much of a premium, for a better car. Research shows, if your going to charge XXX amount for a specific vehicle, people perceive more $$$, larger the vehicle should be. They have a hard time swallowing a VW Jetta V6 around $26K still classified as a subcompact.
Plus issues with factory output, U.A.W. not wanting to import such a vehicle, etc. If the Mondeo were imported here, you would be looking at MSRP's around $27K-34K the the time it hits showrooms. Granted, some people might be willing to pay that, if you slam a Lincoln badge on it, but without a certain sales goal, the plan wouldn't be economicall feasable.
But the Mondeo in Europe will be moving on to another platform, another mission, shared with Volvo in it's next generation coming out in a few years. If you like the Mondeo (if you have driven it that is), then you will much more enjoy the Fusion ST/Zephyr/Milan that will debut next year.
"As for the Passat like looks, have you compared the 500 and Passat side views?"
J.Mays who designed previously for VW, now works for Ford which can explain why the 500 looks much like a Passat, and why the interiors have been upgraded in many vehicles.
"Coming back to acceleration, can you point out any figures? I am curious as to well a 201hp engine can move a 4000lbs plus car"
AMCI independent testing, concluded the 500 reached 0-60Sec in 7.35 seconds. It's been printed in a few teaser brochures, and on the Ford website.
I understand this car is not for buyers looking for extreme performance, but I really liked what I saw on the auto show circuit, and have been waiting for this car to come out. Anyway, i am going to revisit the dealer once more, and check out various trim levels.
7.35 seconds to 60 is pretty darn good for a car of its heft. Somehow it felt slower to me, but I am going to check it out once more. Will keep you posted.
Of course the do gooders and lawyers would have a field day with this. "Oh no! Ford is encouraging racing and illegal speeding!"
Oh, well, I can dream!
Just how some people (that wouldn't even buy the vehicle) comment on how the Town Car should have a 300HP (Cobra engine) to compete with Caddilac's Northstar, and here I am cringing wondering....
"How many old people are actually going to drive into storefronts with that much force and blame that the accelerator got stuck, or the car suddenly jumped out of gear"....
By the way, my so called "little cheap honda" will just pass you right by without stopping when you are stranded on the highway with your broken down ford!
Can someone explain to me why you are so interested in Fords? I always get interested in them but then go to the department of transportations website they have an extremely bad track record with recalls and the FORD motor company has done practically nothing for the environment. And don't reply to me with "ford escape hybrid" because that is a joke so they can make a claim they are helping the environment.
As someone who BOUGHT and drives a Five Hundred, I find your Ford reliablity and resale comments to be opinions based on no data.
That milage number I think is good and has actually interested me more in the car than if it got say 25-26 or so. Someone's going to have to explain that one to me I guess.
Nope, I am not complaining, though I am still getting over the shock of a tank of gas costing $35!!!!
The shape is no more Passat-like than a Nissan Altima, in fact if you are really familiar with Fords you will see many styling cues from other Fords including the 92 Crown Vic, which had the arched three window greenhouse long before VW/Audi adopted it, the cars tail resembles the mid 90's taurus, though with different lights, and also the last version of the Mazda Protege sedan.
It'd make a terrific taxi. I for one don't see that as a problem, if a car can hold up to taxi abuse it has alot going for it. Mercedes cars had been quite popular as taxis in Europe. I really don't see how that hurts a cars image.
The European Ford you're thinking of is the Mondeo--not the Montego, which is the Mercury version of the Five Hundred, it is a substantially smaller car, smaller than the Taurus, about Mazda 6 sized, a nice car but one that's due for replacement in a couple of years, possibly by a car derived from the Mazda 6/CD3 platform as is the Ford Fusion sedan(not the Euro hatchback)which is due out in a year. There are a number of reasons why the new C1 Focus isn't coming here, at least not 'til the 2008 model year, most have to do with more, some with plant scheduling; among the reasons are the consolidation of all Focus production in Michigan next year, the conversion of the Hermosillo MX plant to CD3 platform production, the cost of investing in new tooling so shortly after a styling refresh, price competition/overlap with the Fusion, etc.
I'm pretty sure Ford's alliance with Nissan ended after the Quest/Villager, though there is a rumour that they may be buying some CVTs for the the Fusion from Jatco if Batavia can't meet production. I also don't think Ford wants that 3.5 l in the Five Hundred now, they took great pains to make sure the car's price maxes out at under $30K before destination--loaded. That is a selling point, you know that if they put a bigger engine from another supplier e.g. Nissan or more likely Yamaha, and DVD Navigation, satellite radio, etc. they'd wind up with a car that maxes out at $35K to $40K, and critics like you would be comparing that price unfavourably to a 4 cylinder Accord's or Camry's base price, and the car's refinement unfavourably to $60K-$80K Lexus' or Audi's.
Anyway, I especially like the Montego Premium version, without the AWD (for the slightly lower ride height).
I'd like to test drive one, but I don't want to waste the sales rep's time, as I'm not likely to be in the market for another 2-3 years, at the earliest.
When I sat in the Five Hundred, I was impressed with the command seating position and the design. But even more impressive was the ROOM. The back seat is huge.
As for the never-ending controversy about performance: 0-60 mph times don't concern me too much anymore, as I've pretty much given up participating in the occasional impromptu red-light grand prix event.
My concerns are performance when merging (accelerating from about 30 mph to 70 mph); and being able to cruise along at 75-80 mph with the air conditioning engaged and not having the engine sound and feel as though it is going to expire in agony within the next mile.
Coming back to the power issue, at its current price point, its not competing with 4 cyl camcords, but with cars that have a lot more power, not that all of that is needed. However, numbers do make a huge difference, and any auto marketing type can tell you that.
I again disagree on the taxi cab image issue, IMHO it matters to a private buyer, not to say that its a fault with the car.
As for the Mondeo, I wasn't saying that it should have replaced the 500, just that Ford should have made it available to US buyers, what with near luzury sedans doing so well these days, and badging it as a Mercury would have been ideal.
One of the things that I am concerned about is that the MSRP is pretty high compared to other midsize cars, so I am assuming one can be had a little later with rebates and discounts.
The Honda Accord EX V6 starts at: $23,800
The Nissan Altima 3.5 SE starts at: $23,150
The Pontiac Grand Prix starts at: $23,560
The Toyota Camry LE V6 starts at: $22,920
Now,
The Ford Five Hundred SE starts at: $22,795
Now only is it right in between all of the competition, but it undercuts most by a few hundred bucks. Thats not the only thing. If you can do without cabin air filtration system (or just get it out of showroom) the Five Hundred has way more room than any of the above mentioned. The Grand Prix has the poorest excuse for a backseat of all of the above. And the foreign brands all have 4 cyls standard, unlike the Five Hundred.
IMO if your just a practical buyer, the five hundred is the best choice, even w/o the 3.5L. I mean, no one will give this kind of interrior, for this kind of price. And no one can give you this kind of back seat for this price.
Also, the base SE is equipped with 17" alloy wheels, and ABS, four wheel disc brakes, traction control, single disc CD player, keypad and remote, etc.
No need to apologize for the base equipment load on the base Five Hundred, either.
So, compared to what is the price too high?
~alpha
The pricing of the 500 will obviously attract people who are simply buying a sedan, without the premium connotation added to it. They think, "Hmmm, I have a budget of $25K, what should I buy...". IN this senario they will shop all the aforementioned vehicles. If size/safety/value is their top priority, then suddenly they might buy a 500 instead based on those merits for the given budget.
It's as if your buying a vehicle, and you see you can either have a fully loaded smaller vehicle, or step up to a decently equipped vehicle for the same price. And this is another area where the 500 should do well in.
Now interior. I was impressed, interior quality and design reminds me VW Passat, though more modern one. Steering wheel is small and is a pleaser to hold. Seating position is a little bit too high for me, I would prefer more traditional seat. Especially pleasing are dark fake wood and gauge cluster quality. Strange thing is that shifter has only two driving positions: D and L.
External design is a bit bland, could be more elegant, but it is not Audi anyway. But I espected better style from Mercury. Being upper scale brand it needs to differentiate itself more using upscale elegant styling.
Now I will not buy Montego, because I do not need so much space and SUV like seating position. So I am interested more in arrival of dynamic and agile Milan as a possible replacement for my Sable.
So far, I like the Five Hundred much better than either. And I LOVE the AWD, though I have had no known occasion to use it so far!
Interesting, only the Freestar offers the option of a cassette player, and most other (Focus, 500/Freestyle) offers MP3 playing capability, but the Freestar not.
Alpha: the (unimpressive) Freestar was priced high b/c of the big rebates (more than $7,000 at many dealers). So out of pocket money is competitive. The 500 is a new car, and (hopefully) will be selling quite well, and don't need rebates at this time.
Sad.
Real sad.
The Avalon I can accept as a premium sedan, but the Impala?!
Anyway, the Five Hundred has really piqued my interest in the upcoming Fusion/Milan. Will the production cars debut this winter at the Detroit show?