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Comments
Bottom line is that Chrysler missed the mark on this one. The Pacifica may be a very nice vehicle, and possibly a superior alternative to the Explorers and Jeeps, but it will never compete in the luxury market. I mean, seriously, for the same $40K you can have an MDX or XC90 vastly superior in every way, especially status and resale value.
Maybe Chrysler should roll out an entire new division to compete in the luxury market. They could start with the Pacifica, but use higher quality materials. Add in a more luxurious version of the 300M and Grand Cherokee, and they just might compete. It worked for Honda/Acura and Toyota/Lexus. Ford has Lincoln, GM has Cadillac. Sorry, but BMW and Lexus shoppers just aren't going to buy a Chrysler.
I am truly dissapionted in the Pacifica, the concept showed such promise and performance look. Truly the production is a compromise in all areas, fit and finish, performance, awd, lousy transmission, space, and look. Suspension is nice and steering was ok.
Concept offers nothing over the modern awd minivan or unibody suv offerings such as mdx or the highlander.
Size reminded me of our first generation oddysey, but in 1995 it was only 15k. Same 0-60, same 4spd tranny, better folding seat, same seats, rattle free and got good MPG. Honda reliability! In retrospect, should have just tinted the windows, put a new stereo, new wheels, and im sure it would still be running fine. See them in nyc yellow taxis still running like crazy!
Lasabre costs 33k? Wow, never really priced one.
I guess Pacifica will really do well in the fleet sales market and drug reps all over will have a nice wagon to peddle their wares!
Sales guy called yesterday evening (Sat) and as we where chatting about a T&C I had looked at with a friend I again asked how the Pacifica's were doing . . he said, "we have lots of interest and people in to see them". I asked if they were selling many. He said in the last week they had not sold anymore - so, they have sold one in two weeks and they keep getting them in. . .
Compare this with the new Toyota Sienna that dealerships cannot keep on the lot and are selling them off their future delivery sheets sight unseen.
I smell $3500 rebates on these things very soon. . .can you say Edsel?!
Adam (who thinks the Pacifica is good looking but way over priced).
I don't expect Lexus/Acura/Mercedes finish, and the like, for Toyota/Honda/Chrysler money.
Well, actually, I DO, but I'm usually disappointed.
Again, compare this thing to stuff IN its class, not stuff outside its class. So, it aint' a 5 seires wagon - no duh - it's also 10 K cheaper, no?
let's compare it to the XC90 and other 40k-ish vehicles that can haul six humans. I'm not saying it's a better buy than a Siena, just saying the comparison of this apple to some of the oranges out there is a waste (unless you are happy with an orange, of course)
Also, the placement of the screen doesn't allow for the passenger to safely use it/work with it while driving without distracting the driver.
acceleration? if I hear one more person compare the Pacifica to a sports sedan or coupe, I am gonna have a stroke. Compare the acceleration to the minivans or to other big station wagons - THAT is fair.
StorageL I don't expect the thing to carry as much crap as my Grand Caravan. I am willing to carry less, but I still want to carry extra kids, so I need more seats. I love my minivan (THERE, I said it!), but I'd like a little better handling for my day-to-day driving. Also, I don't want to be seen in a minivan any more. I'bve been a soccer mom for long enough (and I'm a guy)
frankly, the volvo and mercedes (and bmw) wagons all scream "soccer mom" just as loud as any minivan, don't they?
Maybe I'll just find a two-year old 5 series BMW wagon and tell the extra kids to walk home
-end
I love how picky people can be. "Even trying to maintain speed going up modest inclines caused downshifts and added noise." For some reason, people overlook the noise in an import but in a domestic, it becomes a factor.
In the driving section of the Ride and Drive, the Pacifica was more quiet and composed than the Acura MDX (rebadged Pilot). It also had much better interior quality with seams and dash spacing. In fact the Acura felt like vinyl.
As for more quality, at the end of the first day, the Acura (rebadged Pilot), needed some warranty work with 300 miles on it.
As for the traits of the Pacifica, it took the best attributes of a SUV (room and seating postion), Minivan (room for people and cargo), Luxury Car (ride, handling, fit and finish) and is offering it at a price of under $40,000. In some cases over $15,000 less than less capable vehicles. Notice I didn't say the best attributes of a Porsche 911, BMW M5 or Volkswagon Toureg.
By the way, when translated directly into English from Arabic, Toureg means "godless theif." Funny eh?
Jay
I've decided I just don't need to haul around all that extra cargo room every day. It's nice to have, but it's a waste. I'd take 5 more MPG and easier parking and better driveability and give up the cargo area. I think that Chrysler (and the others) ahve figured this out.
I don't know if the Pacifica is the answer, or if I'll go more toward a VW wagon, but it's nice to see Daim/Chrys taking a swing at this. I do like the extra seating in the Pacifica (versus the VW wagons and most others). It's an interesting niche.
And having a little better image doesn't hurt, though I HATE to say that. I totally agree with your comment along the lines of "you are NOT the car you drive." Despite believing that, I STILL judge SUV drivers by the cars they drive. Not really fair, but.....
What do people think about the Taurus wagon? It is not a minivan, and has nice car like handling (after all it is a car). It is peppy with the 200 hp engine (since it weighs 1,000 lbs less than a Pacifica) it gets much better gas mileage. It seats 5 comfortably, and 8 in a pinch. To top it off you could buy one and still have enough money left over for a brand new Honda Civic for the kids to drive.
Indydriver - what about the new Maxima with the 4 person seating and full length skylight, or the G-35.
There is little room in the Murano, and it has a very choppy ride over anything but a smooth road.
I also felt the styling may be a bit too trendy, and not wear well over time.
The Pacifica is roomier, and the longer wheelbase really helps the ride. The 55/45 weight balance lets the chassis carve thru turns, and promotes an overall solid feel.
My factory ordered Pacifica is due to ship this week!
Before anybody says - "but their feet are so close to the back of the car and could get crushed in an accident". Remember that in the Pacifica rear seats your head is only a few inches from the back window. Maybe it is just me, but a broken foot seems less severe than a broken head. : ^ )
I'm starting to move away from AWD/4WD systems, and am considering whether any of the usual suspects are "much" better cars in 2WD configuration. All of them (Pacifica, XC90, Cadillac SRX) should be lighter and peppier and more fun to drive than in AWD config, right?
How does the seat height in the Pacifica compare to the XC90 and SRX?
of course, if I go too far down this 2WD path, I'll end up looking at Taurus wagons!!
:-)
I'm thinking of renting a 4WD anytime I need to go to the mountains to ski. That's 3 weekend a year, perhaps. I wonder what the cost curves look like on that approach (buyin a better MPG, lower maintenance cost, lower initial cost vehicle and occasionally renting a 4WD) - it's just silly to drive 4WD vehicle in the SF Bay Area every day in the commute, when I need the 4Wd perhaps 10 days/year.
Better Traction
All-wheel drive offers better traction in a variety of weather and road=
conditions ? it's not just about snow and ice. Any loose or slippery
surface
presents a traction challenge for a two-wheel-drive vehicle. All-wheel
drive aids traction on:
=B7 Sand
=B7 Gravel
=B7 Rough roads
=B7 Mud
=B7 Rain-covered roads
In fact, roads covered by leaves and grass clippings can seriously
degrade traction. All-wheel drive is the perfect answer to all these
situations.
Advantages Over Traction Control Alone
Customers may be tempted to the conclusion that a less expensive tracti=
on
control
system on a two-wheel-drive vehicle does the same job for less money.
That is not true. Traction control systems operate by limiting power
output to slipping wheels. This may help get the vehicle moving in
slippery conditions, but it reduces power available to the driver.
An example is a vehicle on a slippery boat ramp, pulling a boat trailer=
out of the water. If wheels slip on a two-wheel-drive vehicle with
traction control, the traction control system will limit the amount
of power available just when you need it most. All-wheel-drive simply
redirects the existing power to the wheels with the most traction.
Handling Advantages
All-wheel drive offers definite handling advantages on all surfaces,
including dry pavement. With all four wheels able to receive power,
the system reduces both understeer (plowing ? common to front-wheel-dri=
ve
vehicles) and oversteer (rear end tending to swing out ? common on
rear-wheel-drive vehicles) conditions for safe, predictable, "neutral"
handling.
Maximum Acceleration
All-wheel drive's traction puts the available engine power to use.
Zero to sixty times will be less than ideal if engine power is directed=
to slipping wheels. All-wheel drive puts developed power to the wheels =
for
quick acceleration under a variety of road conditions.
I believe when the new LX's actually arrive in the sheetmetal, they will be very desirable cars. Fresh styling, lots of room and good old V-8, RWD performance. We have also owned DC minivans since 1989 and have loved them. If my wife's was ready for replacement, I would definitely take a very close look at the Pacifica. I haven't bothered to go look at them at the dealer because I don't need a case of new-car-fever right now. But I saw one on the road recently and it was stunning. Very distinctive in its appearance and stance. I liked what I saw. DC is in the process of completely replacing its product offering and it will certainly be the most attractive sheetmetal for the buck of the "domestics".
Honda took its Odyssey minivan and made came up with the MDX and Pilot. Neither is a real truck, but they both can pretend to look like real trucks. (Well, maybe.) Seating position, overall pretend-truck look, etc.
Volvo took its S80 platform and came up with something a less truck looking, the XC90, but still an elevated vehicle & seating position that looks relatively lean & trim for its actual size.
Lexus took the Camry and came up with the first RX, don't care for it nor the new version, but it was elevated and had... well... that's about it. Not for me.
Chrysler took its minivan and produced the Pacifica which, by comparison, strikes me as squat, bloated, and slab-sided. (Again, my opinion here.)
Basically I don't understand why the Pacifica came out looking the way it does...??? The early 300M-on-stilts was a much more promising approach, I think.
The nav radio for the PT is easier to read than the nav on the Pacifica. In the PT everyone can see the nav screen.
DC seems to have a problem designing cars without having a huge turning circle. Fit and finish were fine.
Way over priced, somewhat under powered, and too tight inside for the exterior size. Throw in the 5.7 V8, a five speed auto tranny, a bench middle row, move the nav to the middle, and max out at around $35K and DC would have a hot seller. I like the look of the Pacifica and think it is a good start for something that doesn't fit into a current vehicle category.
For those that have commented on reliability, DC has come a long way. My PT GT was assembled much better than my MDX and the Chrysler dealer has given much better service than the Acura dealer.
The buying public knows that it doesn't take long before DC offers large rebates, so it shouldn't be a surprise that initial sales may be slow.
When one waits for the rebate and the sale price to drop close to invoice resale on a DC product isn't too bad. Still not like some current Acura/Honda or BMW models though.
Someone up topic commented on how the MDX seats felt like vinyl. They do because for the most part they are.
To the person that ordered a Pacifica that said something to the effect that they had purchased an American car: DC profits go to Germany now that Mercedes runs the show. At least the Pacifica is assembled and mostly designed on this side of the ocean so there is still great benefit. My Chrysler was made in Mexico, my Toyota in the United States, and my Acura in Canada (My last GM sedan was made in Canada too). With today's multi-national companies it is hard to say what nationality a product really is except with respect to where the profits go.
buy Chrysler, but have profits go overseas?
it's a quandary. I bet there's a decent analysis out there. Or just do what my friend the economist says, "jus buy the product you like at the best price you can and stop worrying about the rest - let the market decide"
still, I like to support people living in the US - after all, that IS where I live and if folks here are out of work....
I think the Cadillac SRX will have a similiar look with a hip point that is only 5 inches higher than the CTS.