The T-Mobile was removed??? I switched from Sprint to T-Mobile in November specifically because I ordered the IS350 w/Nav/Bluetooth and the Lexus website said the car worked with Cingular or T-Mobile. I have to say I hate the T-Mobile service or phone I have. I get dropped calls like crazy and have to keep calling customer service. They are the nicest customer service reps and try to help but I can't use the phone in my house and drop a lot of calls walking, driving, etc. I've been waiting to get the car to see how it works in the car before I cancel. I hope someone can provide some more information as to why T-Mobile was dropped. Thanks for letting me know. :confuse:
Well, I will be buying an IS in the spring but really want the Bluetooth. I was just getting ready to switch to T-Mobile from Verizon because of the Lexus website recommending T-Mobile. I guess we can wait to see if anyone responds to our posts. Please let me know if you have problems connecting with T-Mobile and good luck with your new IS!!
I have NAV in my current IS. In three years I've used it maybe four or five times a year. Of those four or five, at least three times I could just have easily used mapquest on the desktop before heading out. A couple times the thing took me on the long and winding road to get where I was going.
I wouldn't spec it again for myself, but I wouldn't walk away from a car on the lot that had everything else right either...
How about putting a turbo or two in the IS250? I'm just hoping that someone has a setup for it. Is250 has everything i want in a car, except for a little more power.
A car is more fun to drive if it can do 0-60 under 6sec.
Thanks all for the advice on NAV, I can save myself $2K. I like the backup camera though. Is the PA (Parking Assist) annoying? I'm thinking it maybe an annoying beep when backing up.
We have parking assist on our Odyssey and it's great...no downside since if you don't like it you can turn it off, but we leave it on all the time so even when getting in and out of the garage if you get too close to a post or car you get warnings...very cool feature...much more useful than "adaptive cruise control" or "lane changing warning" that the M35 has.
Depends on whether or not you ever travel to new or unknown addresses. I got my first nav-equipped vehicle (not an IS) last spring and I love it. Since then I've driven from Michigan to Washington DC. Also Niagara Falls, Toronto, Chicago, etc. I no longer print out a bunch of maps on the computer in advance and have the ablility to deal with route changes in real-time. And can zoom up to the residential street level on the touch screen map. So I love it. However many people never seem to stray from their daily commute or go anywhere unknown. If I were one of those people I might question the need.
The touch panel in the Lexus also controls (some) climate features as well as audio (ie audio channel presets are on the screen, CD disc change, etc).
For those who never go anywhere they haven't been before, it's useless (duh).
For those who do, it's very helpful.
That said, it's not necessary to spend $2K to get the utility. Buy a stand-alone GPS from Garmin (my brand), Magellan, or whomever, for a fraction of the cost.
Do you actually drive your vehicle outside of the county (not country, BTW) you live in?
If not, you certainly don't need any kind of GPS.
Many of us do. A GPS provides the ability to get where you're going with much less stress.
I can't find any IS350's with ML in or around PHL and I'm hearing the same from other Northeast posters...any dealers out there have any insight on this? Sounds crazy that the ML equiped cars being geographically allocated. I'd rather not have to drive a new one home from ATL to PHL if possible.
Nav is cool because it means you will never get lost. No matter where you are, just type in where you want to go, and the nav will take you there. It is nice if you are visiting a city and want to find a restaurant, or gas station, or if you want to know exactly how far until your exit on the freeway, or what lane you have to be in to exit...
That said, it does not always provide the best route. Often for long trips, I look on Yahoo Maps first, to get some idea of my route. But I still like the nav for the detailed maps that change in real-time based on your position, and for the voice guidance. You just have to bear in mind that it doesn't necessarily pick the best route all of the time.
hey everyone, not sure if this has been discussed, but from the looks of the base lighting system on the new IS, it looks like the bulbs could simply be changed... right??? i mean thats the only thing that is really drawing me back from just getting the premium w/nav on the 250... the other stuff on the lux package is nice... but i dont really need the rear sunshade, the self-tinting-tilting outside mirrors and rain-sensing wipers... i really just want some xenon'esque lights, has anyone looked into this or done this on their car yet?? thanks in advance
if youre going to be staring at a map instead of driving with your eyes on the road ahead then you are a fool and an accident waiting to happen. of course if you have another person looking at the map then its safer and viable.
You don't need to "stare" at the map while you are driving in order to use it. You can just glance down from time to time to see where you are. In fact I think it makes you a safer driver because you are always prepared for the next turn or exit, so you will never need to change lanes quickly to exit off the highway. The nav guidance definitely makes me a better driver.
Saying that the nav system is unsafe is like saying spedometers are unsafe because you shouldn't be looking at your speed, you should be watching the road. In fact, spedometers make driving safer, even though you have to take your eyes off the road to look at them. Same thing with navs.
I personally would not buy a car without NAVI. It really is worth the premium. You do not even have to look at the map to get where you are going. It is like having the passenger tell you what to do if you choose to ignore glancing at the screen. It tells you when to merge, turn right/left etc. I love it.
On another topic previously mentioned, the Bluetooth works well with Cingular. I am not sure if Verizon would be a good choice. They have a few phones, but some features are disabled with the BT connectivity. T-Mobile is horrible as they have the least coverage. If you live in a dense metro area, it may not be that bad.
Just bought an IS 250 w/ Nav and am now shopping for a bluetooth phone. I have had Verizon wireless for 10 years now, and don't want to switch, but the Lexus website directs me to Cingular. Does anyone know if a Verizon Motorola Razor phone or the TREO 650 w/ bluetooth works with the IS 250 NAV system?
Lexus will only endorse Cingular, but other phones will work. It's just that different providers allow different Bluetooth functionality. For example, Verizon does not allow phone book transfer. But Verizon phones will still work for making and receiving calls in the car, as I'm sure Sprint or T-Mobile would too. However, it's not a bad idea to test out the phone before you buy it - or during the 15-day trial!
A lot of new phones have Bluetooth-related bugs. Sometimes you have to wait until the software is updated in order for them to work properly. (Depending on the phone/carrier some phones will automatically update their software, others have to be done manually.)
So, I have had my IS 250 AWD for a week now and have been hearing a noice when I reach speed of 68-70 which goes away at higher/lower speed. It sounds like an 18 wheeler is about ready to pass me. I brought it into the dealer to look at today. A technician and I went out on a highway drive and he heard the noise. Their conclusion--it is the normal "drivetrain harmonics" and nothing can be done to eliminate it. That sounds crazy to me. Can anyone shed some light on this? The sound is so annoying.
Well, if there's noise like that esp. with AWD I can say the AWD is working. With all the engineering (Traction Control, Stability Control, BFD) some noise is understandable. I've read in the BMW forums that reported noise in their AWD systems as well. If the noise escalates or if other noises come up then this might be something to look into. Or if it's loud enough that makes it difficult to hear your speakers.
Are you still under 1000 miles? I don't think it's a good idea to go over 55 during break-in period. There's a lot of engineering powering all 4 wheels.
Why do you think it is not a good idea to go over 55 mph when under 1000 miles? Is this stated in the manual for break in process?
I would suspect proper break in has much more to do with maintaining and varying RPM than speed. Would you recommend doing 50 mph in second gear during break-in? This would seem like a bad idea to me due to RPM level but would be acceptable based on your statement.
Most manufacturers recommend you vary RPM speed and do not exceed a certain level (i.e. 3500 RPM) for long periods. This might allow up to 85-90 mph in top gear for short periods.
I do not see how you correlate the AWD system with break in mph anyway as there are a variety of factors that impact AWD beyond mph...
I find it funny how people "justify" NOT getting Nav.
(1) printed maps are just as good (2) they think the non-nav console looks better (3) they're ignoring all the other features nav gets you: - voice recognition - backup camera - bluetooth - etc, etc
Likely bottom line is they just couldn't afford it. Don't even get me started on those that "only want xenons, not all the other stuff".
I have NAV but find it unnecessary in the way I normally use my car. The other stuff that comes with it is nice. But also not very important. But then again...Some people don't see the need to have a car.
When I got my last car, a sheet was given to me before I left the lot for proper break-in. Yes, vary the rpms to work the pistons, but do not stay in the same mph, travel between 2k to 4k rpm, and do not go over 55 mph for the first 1000 miles. Oil change is recommended after the first 1000 miles. This helps remove the metal residues during break-in.
I'm not saying that this applies/correlates to AWD systems, just new cars in general. It's good practice to have proper break-in.
Since you were replying to my post, here's a bit more clarification on my put:
GPS is a wonderful thing, but you don't have to spend $2K to get the benefit. It's possible to spend $350 (or significantly less on the internet) with Garmin and get all the utility of map-driven turn-by-turn navigation. You'll end up with a stand-alone device that can be taken along on a business trip to use in the rental. In the bargain, you can set up a trip & review the tracks from past trips, on your computer at home (or laptop on a trip) -- really big screen, plus the ability to save the file.
I've taken a portable GPS to the continent (Europe) four times & England six, plus several dozen trips outside Arizona (where I live) over the past four years. It's been a wonderful help, and eliminates much of the stress of driving in a new place.
Here's the message: You can get the actual utility of "NAV" at a fraction of the cost of the hard-mounted accessory in a car, but no one will exclaim over it. It's just useful -- a Timex keeps time just as well as a Rolex.
So, why have the Rolex?
Well, worry over the size of gene***** comes to mind, but that's probably not all of it. "Sending a message" to business associates is how it's often been presented in discussions of this sort in the past.
In any event, having a GPS display in any form is a very useful thing. The size of the display? Maybe size does matter.
I have a problem with paint chipping on the hood and side of my ES330. Lexus claims these are rock chips. I disagree because I do not drive in gravel. Has anyone seen this problems before? How do I handle this situation with the dealer?
I agree with some of that advice, and am not sure if the sheet you were given was a dealer or manufacturer instruction.
Most new cars have manufacturer suggestions in their manuals now that are specific to the car (and probably the warranty), so I would be wary of breaking in a car based on anecdotal, non-manufacturer, dealer or past 'rules-of thumb' information.
For instance my 1999 Saab had a free 1,000 mile oil change, presumably for the metal bits issue, but my 2005 Acura recommends no such thing. Other cars I have owned recommend NOT changing the initial oil until 3,000 miles due to additives in the factory oil that assist with break in. Most of my cars have recommended varying the RPM and not exceeding a certain RPM, but do not have a max speed, and recommend gentle breaking in the first 200 miles. I would find the 55 mph rule (if it is a rule) very difficult to comply with unless I never drove on a freeway for the first 1,000 miles, and one generally cannot drive safely on a freeway anymore doing 55 mph...
Different folks want and don't want different things. It is unlikely that someone buying a car in this price range who wants the nav will not find a way to afford it.
I think your postulated "bottom line" is off base... just mho.
It must be price. Why else would anyone NOT want the factory nav? Do people really like Garmin better than factory Nav (does it have better screen, better UI, etc)? People like printing their own maps (maybe they like the smell of the ink), I don't know. If it's not price, then enlighten me please.
Some people want a car to drive and not too concerned about getting a built-in NAV. Mon-Fri to and from work, why would you need a NAV? And if they need one later, just get the magellan, a couple hundred dollars vs 2K. It's not like the NAV is a standard feature anyway.
The built-in NAV is really cool at first (WOW built-in NAV). Some folks I've heard who have it don't even look at it anymore.
There is a concept called diminishing returns. That seems to be what some folks are saying. It's not about the money, it's about the utility and cost with regard to your own standards, priorities and needs.
Of course, everyone would want the IS350, instead of the IS250 if it were the same price, and gas were free..
That doesn't make an IS250 buyer cheap... People make value judgements on all options... Carl Lindner drives a Bentley convertible, but I bet he doesn't pay $10K extra for the matching luggage..
As a value proposition, NAV systems probably return less on re-sale than any other option.. $2000 is $2000.. Some people would rather spend their money in other places..
Actually, for me, a portable NAV makes more sense. I have NAV in my current IS and use it very infrequently. I really don't need it locally, which represents the bulk of my driving (+-10K miles a year), and the four or so times a year I travel in the car on business or recreation I know my route in advance anyway. A portable NAV actually makes more sense for me, since most of my business travel is air plus one of National's "stellar" Emerald Aisle offerings. :sick:
Why bother paying for something unused, given the choice?
Same applies for me to HVAC seating, bluetooth, sat radio and rear-view cams, etc., etc. Not useful enough for me to pay for. Now, in the absence of a special order option I might take (as I did on this car) such things, but if I don't need them, why pay for them? Next car is SO for certain.
Owner of the Cincinnati Reds (soon to be ex-owner).. sorry.. a local thing..
NAV systems have always been around $2K... BMW charges $1800, when it is an option.. You would think that the price would have dropped by now.. NAV is now an option on Honda Civics, and the price is $1500.. I don't know if that means that it is getting cheaper, or if the price resistance is higher at that price level.. It is still $2000 on an Accord..
I think they've been around since about 1999 or 2000? I know that they were standard on '01 BMW 7-series..
Yes, I agree. Some folks want just a nice car but don't need all the bells and whistles. And all the bells and whistles really add up. One will have to think about whether they need all of that or not and if it's worth the extra cost.
And in the new IS, I thought the NAV was standard at first. Since most of the cars that have arrived had the NAV. Without the NAV the climate controls, radio buttons, and their display screens look very redundant and cluttered. It seems like they want to steer people into getting the NAV option. It seems like a special request without the NAV.
I agree that many cars that offer NAV as an option have a far superior interior layout, interior design and controls ergonomics than non-NAV cars. This was the case with my 2005 TL, and I got the NAV for that reason partially (in the case of the TL NAV came with better tires, voice command, improved A/C control as well, which were also very compelling).
Perhaps the manufacturers make the interior more appealing with the NAV as an incentive to buy NAV as an option.
the acura legend in 96 had the first in car nav system. just about every posting I have ever read and I have read them in mercedes, acura, infiniti, and lexus boards comes down to the same argument and timbo is correct. most of the non nav people point out price and the relative cheapness of 'maps' and the [from personal experience] inaccurate and worthless mapping sites online. the dash in the IS, TL, and LS look pitiful without the nav screen and yes more goodies are included when you get the nav. does virtually anyone use a nav system everyday? of course not. but that argument is as pointless as saying well why do I need a life jacket? I am not going to use it everyday. dont agree? thats youre perogative but if you think about it without regard to the obvious importance factor that the vest has over the nav the analogy is pretty much the same on the most basic level.
he doesnt buy the luggage because like all recent reds owners he is too cheap. and most cars in that price range and higher include the bespoke luggage in the deal. NOBODY cares about the resale value of a navigation system. it isnt nearly as important in resale as the color combination or engine choice.
Nav is one of those features that most people would not give up once they have it (and have been helped by it). Kind of like going back to hand-crank windows.
I'll give that a "whatever". Cellphone and "911" maybe? Extreme examples make OnStar look good too. Don't need that either.
I have NAV, I use it; no biggie. The discussion is whether to purchase or not, which is an individual decision based on needs and experiences. Based on my needs and experiences, I wouldn't special order it nor specify it as a preference. If I didn't have a choice because it came bundled with other options I really wanted, I wouldn't walk away from it either, as I said. The more I ponder it, the more I believe I would find a portable unit that can ride in my travel case on the plane useful on the other end. If Lexus really wants to wow this customer, they should make theirs a docking unit I can take with me!
Tools for driving, like great rubber and suspension bits I'll take every time. NAV, to me, is kind of like having a 1 3/4" rotary hammer in your tool arsenal. It's real neat, and I'm sure if I try hard enough, I can find something to use it on, and someday I'll need one for something I'm sure. But hey, that's me.
I'm sure there are folks who use them regularly and have received tremendous value from the expenditure. They should buy them and use them and love them. What they should probably avoid is being critical of those who don't, I think...
Comments
I wouldn't spec it again for myself, but I wouldn't walk away from a car on the lot that had everything else right either...
I'm just hoping that someone has a setup for it.
Is250 has everything i want in a car, except for a little more power.
A car is more fun to drive if it can do 0-60 under 6sec.
The touch panel in the Lexus also controls (some) climate features as well as audio (ie audio channel presets are on the screen, CD disc change, etc).
For those who do, it's very helpful.
That said, it's not necessary to spend $2K to get the utility. Buy a stand-alone GPS from Garmin (my brand), Magellan, or whomever, for a fraction of the cost.
Do you actually drive your vehicle outside of the county (not country, BTW) you live in?
If not, you certainly don't need any kind of GPS.
Many of us do. A GPS provides the ability to get where you're going with much less stress.
That said, it does not always provide the best route. Often for long trips, I look on Yahoo Maps first, to get some idea of my route. But I still like the nav for the detailed maps that change in real-time based on your position, and for the voice guidance. You just have to bear in mind that it doesn't necessarily pick the best route all of the time.
Saying that the nav system is unsafe is like saying spedometers are unsafe because you shouldn't be looking at your speed, you should be watching the road. In fact, spedometers make driving safer, even though you have to take your eyes off the road to look at them. Same thing with navs.
On another topic previously mentioned, the Bluetooth works well with Cingular. I am not sure if Verizon would be a good choice. They have a few phones, but some features are disabled with the BT connectivity. T-Mobile is horrible as they have the least coverage. If you live in a dense metro area, it may not be that bad.
read in the BMW forums that reported noise in their AWD
systems as well. If the noise escalates or if other noises
come up then this might be something to look into. Or if it's
loud enough that makes it difficult to hear your speakers.
idea to go over 55 during break-in period. There's a lot of
engineering powering all 4 wheels.
I would suspect proper break in has much more to do with maintaining and varying RPM than speed. Would you recommend doing 50 mph in second gear during break-in? This would seem like a bad idea to me due to RPM level but would be acceptable based on your statement.
Most manufacturers recommend you vary RPM speed and do not exceed a certain level (i.e. 3500 RPM) for long periods. This might allow up to 85-90 mph in top gear for short periods.
I do not see how you correlate the AWD system with break in mph anyway as there are a variety of factors that impact AWD beyond mph...
(1) printed maps are just as good
(2) they think the non-nav console looks better
(3) they're ignoring all the other features nav gets you:
- voice recognition
- backup camera
- bluetooth
- etc, etc
Likely bottom line is they just couldn't afford it. Don't even get me started on those that "only want xenons, not all the other stuff".
the lot for proper break-in. Yes, vary the rpms to work the
pistons, but do not stay in the same mph, travel between 2k
to 4k rpm, and do not go over 55 mph for the first 1000
miles. Oil change is recommended after the first 1000 miles.
This helps remove the metal residues during break-in.
I'm not saying that this applies/correlates to AWD systems,
just new cars in general. It's good practice to have proper
break-in.
GPS is a wonderful thing, but you don't have to spend $2K to get the benefit. It's possible to spend $350 (or significantly less on the internet) with Garmin and get all the utility of map-driven turn-by-turn navigation. You'll end up with a stand-alone device that can be taken along on a business trip to use in the rental. In the bargain, you can set up a trip & review the tracks from past trips, on your computer at home (or laptop on a trip) -- really big screen, plus the ability to save the file.
I've taken a portable GPS to the continent (Europe) four times & England six, plus several dozen trips outside Arizona (where I live) over the past four years. It's been a wonderful help, and eliminates much of the stress of driving in a new place.
Here's the message: You can get the actual utility of "NAV" at a fraction of the cost of the hard-mounted accessory in a car, but no one will exclaim over it. It's just useful -- a Timex keeps time just as well as a Rolex.
So, why have the Rolex?
Well, worry over the size of gene***** comes to mind, but that's probably not all of it. "Sending a message" to business associates is how it's often been presented in discussions of this sort in the past.
In any event, having a GPS display in any form is a very useful thing. The size of the display? Maybe size does matter.
YMMV.
Most new cars have manufacturer suggestions in their manuals now that are specific to the car (and probably the warranty), so I would be wary of breaking in a car based on anecdotal, non-manufacturer, dealer or past 'rules-of thumb' information.
For instance my 1999 Saab had a free 1,000 mile oil change, presumably for the metal bits issue, but my 2005 Acura recommends no such thing. Other cars I have owned recommend NOT changing the initial oil until 3,000 miles due to additives in the factory oil that assist with break in. Most of my cars have recommended varying the RPM and not exceeding a certain RPM, but do not have a max speed, and recommend gentle breaking in the first 200 miles. I would find the 55 mph rule (if it is a rule) very difficult to comply with unless I never drove on a freeway for the first 1,000 miles, and one generally cannot drive safely on a freeway anymore doing 55 mph...
I think your postulated "bottom line" is off base... just mho.
getting a built-in NAV. Mon-Fri to and from work, why would
you need a NAV? And if they need one later, just get the
magellan, a couple hundred dollars vs 2K. It's not like the
NAV is a standard feature anyway.
The built-in NAV is really cool at first (WOW built-in NAV).
Some folks I've heard who have it don't even look at it
anymore.
I don't use nav everyday either, but I sure don't want to look at that hideous stock console everyday.
That doesn't make an IS250 buyer cheap... People make value judgements on all options... Carl Lindner drives a Bentley convertible, but I bet he doesn't pay $10K extra for the matching luggage..
As a value proposition, NAV systems probably return less on re-sale than any other option.. $2000 is $2000.. Some people would rather spend their money in other places..
regards,
kyfdx
Host-Prices Paid Forums
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
How long have Nav systems been offered as options on luxury cars?
Have they always been $2k plus?
You figure by now, they've reduced the costs but can still charge $2k plus because people are paying the price.
Why bother paying for something unused, given the choice?
Same applies for me to HVAC seating, bluetooth, sat radio and rear-view cams, etc., etc. Not useful enough for me to pay for. Now, in the absence of a special order option I might take (as I did on this car) such things, but if I don't need them, why pay for them? Next car is SO for certain.
NAV systems have always been around $2K... BMW charges $1800, when it is an option.. You would think that the price would have dropped by now.. NAV is now an option on Honda Civics, and the price is $1500.. I don't know if that means that it is getting cheaper, or if the price resistance is higher at that price level.. It is still $2000 on an Accord..
I think they've been around since about 1999 or 2000? I know that they were standard on '01 BMW 7-series..
Anyway.. back to the Lexus.. sorry.
regards,
kyfdx
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
all the bells and whistles. And all the bells and whistles
really add up. One will have to think about whether they
need all of that or not and if it's worth the extra cost.
And in the new IS, I thought the NAV was standard at first.
Since most of the cars that have arrived had the NAV. Without
the NAV the climate controls, radio buttons, and their
display screens look very redundant and cluttered. It seems
like they want to steer people into getting the NAV option.
It seems like a special request without the NAV.
I looked at getting the Tom Tom 300 as a gift but it didn't really look portable and it used SD cards rather than an optical disc.
Plus maps of Europe aren't cheap are they?
Perhaps the manufacturers make the interior more appealing with the NAV as an incentive to buy NAV as an option.
Wonder if my insurance folks know that...
:confuse:
:P
and check the fourth one down.
Nav is one of those features that most people would not give up once they have it (and have been helped by it). Kind of like going back to hand-crank windows.
I have NAV, I use it; no biggie. The discussion is whether to purchase or not, which is an individual decision based on needs and experiences. Based on my needs and experiences, I wouldn't special order it nor specify it as a preference. If I didn't have a choice because it came bundled with other options I really wanted, I wouldn't walk away from it either, as I said. The more I ponder it, the more I believe I would find a portable unit that can ride in my travel case on the plane useful on the other end. If Lexus really wants to wow this customer, they should make theirs a docking unit I can take with me!
Tools for driving, like great rubber and suspension bits I'll take every time. NAV, to me, is kind of like having a 1 3/4" rotary hammer in your tool arsenal. It's real neat, and I'm sure if I try hard enough, I can find something to use it on, and someday I'll need one for something I'm sure. But hey, that's me.
I'm sure there are folks who use them regularly and have received tremendous value from the expenditure. They should buy them and use them and love them. What they should probably avoid is being critical of those who don't, I think...