Pontiac Grand Prix GXP 2006
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Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
- Ray
Thinking 40+ more HP and 40+ more TQ than the GTP at the same curb weight makes it interesting, at least . . .
The GXP is only 17 lbs heavier than the GTP so HP to weight ration improves.
Check out this link for the equipment and options:
http://eogld.ecomm.gm.com/NASApp/domestic/vehiclesel.jsp?year=2005®ionID=1&divisionID=7-
One easy change I have done to all my GTP is get rid of the avg P225 60 16 tire size and PUT P245 50 16, fit perfectly fine and doesn't mess up your ABS/traction at all. That way you get more traction and better handling, works for me. It also slightly lowers the car with that tire size, looks nice!
Not too shabby.
- Ray
Waiting for the GXP to be available for test drives . . .
I can't wait to take one out for a test drive and see how it compares to the current GTP. The suspension modifications should improve control and handling.
http://media.gm.com/division/2005_prodinfo/powertrain/2005%20HPT%20Library/Gen%20IV/2005i_- - - 5300_LS4_Grand_Prix_GXP.pdf
Looking at the Graphs for 3 motors (the LS4 5.3L V8, the Northstar 4.6 and the ‘old’ L67) I find the following of interest:
= = = = = = 5.3L . . . . 4.6 . . . . L67
HP @ 2000 . 115 . . . . 100 . . . . 100
TQ @ 2000 . 300 . . . . 265 . . . . 250
HP @ 3000 . 180 . . . . 150 . . . . 160
TQ @ 3000 . 310 . . . . 275 . . . . 270
HP @ 4000 . 245 . . . . 225 . . . . 220
TQ @ 4000 . 320 . . . . 295 . . . . 280 (past peak)
[these numbers are approximate, from these dyno curves - trying to line this data up as a chart . . .]
Point being, compared to the L67 (a known and appreciated torque generator) and the Northstar (I have driven the new STS with this version of the motor – it is technically sophisticated, expensive to produce and I certainly respect it), this new 5.3L V8 quoted output is quite impressive. At least on paper.
I end up spending a LOT of my drive time with the motor turning between 2000 and 4000 rpm. The torque available in this range is more important to me (most of the time) than peak horsepower.
The 5.3L LS4 generates more torque and more horsepower at every point from 2000 to 4000 rpm than either of these other motors.
I am looking forward to driving this car.
- Ray
Admitted torque addict . . .
I am amazed the GTO is heavier than the GP GXP. The GTO looks like a sculptured Grand Am.
In 2002 I got my GTP supercharged fully loaded for under $25k. For that price it was worth it, not $35k.
= = =
Couple of points here:
1 – I am afraid that GM will likely need to put incentives on the GXP almost immediately – and the MSRP suggests to me that they understand that. Although the GXP represents significant additional value (to me – see list below) over the GTP, the market is just too soft to suggest that the GXP will be able to sell without such marketing support $$s. If there are $2K or $3K in rebates and a ‘deal’ = just over invoice less current incentives, the GXP actual transaction price may be worth it – to some.
2 – With the many ‘new’ cars being introduced, I would be very surprised if the GXP made much of a ‘splash’. It may not be ‘new enough’. The mechanical changes may be of interest to some of those who were already aware of the Grand Prix GTP. The fact that this ‘new’ Grand Prix V8 remains a FWD, rather than a RWD platform will cause many to simply ignore it. The fact that it still has only a 4 speed automatic may annoy others. Others may be disappointed that the interior is largely unchanged. Etc. There is an incredibly wide range of choices in the $30K sedan market today. Including (just for example, in addition to several FWD sedans) excellent RWD sedans such as the Infiniti G35. A 2005 G35 MSRP starts at $31K / $32K. There are many others that ‘could’ be competitors, depending on your precise needs and wants and priorities - and how that translates to your definition of a competitor.
3 – A decent OEM Navigation system seems pretty consistently to be a $2K option, if available outside a package, regardless of MSRP level. On a $50K+ Infiniti M it is priced roughly the same as on $30K cars. I would be surprised if many GXPs with this option appeared on dealer lots for stock. Certainly, in my area very few GTPs with this option have been in inventory recently. And on a $30K car, $2K represents a significantly larger percentage increment in price than the same $2K added to a $50K car – over 6.5% vs. 4%.
I will reserve judgment until I see one and actually drive one. If the FWD effects (torque steer, etc.) are well managed, and if the V8 feels (and sounds) as I expect, and if the beefed up trans. appears to work well with the increased torque (over the GTP), and if the handling / ride compromise is to my taste, well - - we’ll see.
Just my 0.02 gallons worth . . .
- Ray
GXP over GTP features / content of interest to me:
1 – All-aluminum LS4 - 5.3 V8 – HP / TQ = 303 / 323 w/DoD.
1.5 – EPA rating of 18 / 27 = same as GTP, even with the increased HP / TQ.
2 – Significantly upgraded / strengthened 4T65-E trans.
3 – Bilstein gas-charged dampers and higher rate springs.
3.5 – Stiffer rear stabilizer bar.
3.7 – Lowered
3.9 – 18” wheels / W-rated tires.
4 – Significant brake upgrade.
5 - Restyled front and rear. (In effect, this also includes the $675 PDC group of after production accessories - grill inserts, larger spoiler and exhaust tips.)
From pictures I have seen, I particularly like the front re-style. I am willing to give one a test drive, when they start to appear on dealers’ lots – likely in late April / early May.
Whether or not this is all worth the eventual, actual, negotiated transaction price, after discount and incentives is clearly up to every individual buyer. (I will be particularly interested to see if the current / recent $2K range of rebates on GP’s will be applied to the GXP.)
A relatively ‘loaded’ GTP (CompG, NAV, roof, leather) MSRP is currently approx. $32.7K. Edmunds TMV shows $30.5. I find this rather bizarre, given the fact that the recent rebates were in the $2K range. And sales have NOT been strong.
I’d expect actual prices paid recently (for a GTP equipped as described) to be more in the 28.5K range. Invoice less $1,500 of the rebate money leaves the dealer at $500 over invoice + holdback $$s. But I have not tried any negotiation – as the last I knew, GXPs are not yet shipping . . .
http://www.us.leaseplan.com/pnews/ponmain.htm
- model – 2005 final order - - 2006 open order
Grand Prix 4/27/2005 - - - - - 6/23/2005
So, based on this – my question is:
If I want to order a 2005 GXP, and I actually want to test drive one before I make a final purchase decision, does this mean I have only about 3 weeks for the GXPs to start showing up on dealers’ lots so I actually can drive one????
I certainly do want GM to have all their I-s dotted and T-s crossed before they start shipping this car. Initial build / prep. quality is important for any new launch.
But, if I buy one, I’d likely have to end up ordering one - with exactly the equipment I want and exactly the color I want. And I would be pretty surprised if any dealer near me happened to order exactly what I’d order.
There are not even currently any “Pattern Orders” shown for the GXP. I wonder what (if?) dealers will order for equipment on GXPs destined for stock . . .
- Ray
Frustrated. And wondering if (essentially identical) 2006 GXPs will carry a higher MSRP . .
http://www.gmbuypower.com/vehicleHomePage.bp?make=Pontiac&sellingSource=16&makeId=002&mode- l=Grand%20Prix&modelId=044&year=2005&subModelId=82&subModel=&categoryName=Overview&zip=300- 96&lowerPrice=&higherPrice=
Says it was last updated yesterday.
I do not see any exclusion for the GXP.
- Ray
Done with this topic for a bit . . .
A GP GXP with GTO seats - now that's something I could get excited about.
My understanding is that the 'release to dealers for sale' has not been issued.
Perhaps that is causing the delay - and 'quiet'.
- Ray
Waiting . . .
Midsize Sport Sedans
Pontiac Grand Prix GXP
Chevrolet Impala SS
Mazdaspeed 6
Subaru Legacy
Dodge Charger
How does this sound
Acura TSX
Midsize Sport Sedans
Pontiac Grand Prix GXP
Chevrolet Impala SS
Mazdaspeed 6
Subaru Legacy
Dodge Charger
How does this sound?
Acura TSX
While it is true that you could get a lightly equipped G35 for the same amount as a GXP, I think the GXP is aimed at the Maxima, Altima SE V6 and V6 Chargers/300s. I doubt it will get good reviews from the press so its going to be tought to launch this car with this pricing successfully.
The Pontiac website was update today (or possibly last night) to include some additional info. on the GXP.
Though the "Build Your Pontiac" still does not show / allow a GXP selection . .
Nor the Locate function. That otherwise works better for me than GMBuypower . .
So very very very odd . .
- Ray
Ready to drive one, but . .
Ron
- Ray
With none shown in stock (according to GMBuypower) closer than 100+ miles from Atlanta yet (sigh) . .
0 – 60: 6.0
Quarter: 14.3 at 98.1
No “Estimate” (theirs or GM’s)
Interesting.
Now I must go read the article . . .
- Ray
Glad to see the 14.3 . .
Article title is: “No Grip, No Glory / Front-, rear-, or four-wheel drive?” – page 90.
Sad (to me) that there is no reference to the GXP either on the cover or in the table of contents. There, it shows article name, but does not list the selected combatants. So – if someone happens to be looking for info on the GXP, they will likely not notice that this is a source. . .
Anyway. While I cannot type the whole article, here are a couple of quotes that might hold you over until your copy is available:
“exhaust throbs”
“. . beast finds focus when you crack the throttle”
“ . .hang onto the steering wheel as it wriggles with spasms of torque.”
Bondurant Instructor Mike Speck: “ . . impressed with how rudely the front-drive GXP can be manhandled.”
Since this article was focused on the dynamic differences between RWD, AWD and FWD, there was little reference to ride (or other) comfort / convenience features on any of the cars. (Did mention that the 45-series 18” tires on the G resulted in some “jittery” feel.)
Some numbers:
. . . . . G35 6MT . . GXP . . WRX STi
0 – 30: . 2.1 . . . . 2.4 . . . . 1.2
0 – 60: . 5.8 . . . . 6.0 . . . . 4.7
Quarter: 14.1 / 99.7 . 14.3 / 98.1 . 13.3 / 100.1
braking: . 121ft . . . . 119 . . . 113 (from 60 – 0)
slalom: . .65.4 . . . . 64.2 . . . 69.7
Lat G: . . . 0.85 . . . 0.82 . . . 0.90
(GXP number looks like a typo, as in another spot they show 0.86 g)
Road Course: 23.3 . . . 23.8 . . . 21.9
Base MSRP: $31.2 . . .$29.9 . . . $32.8
Weight: . . 3510 . . . 3630 . . . 3290
Wt dist . . 53 / 47 . 63 / 37 . 58 / 42
My current and 2 prev. cars are / were RWD, AWD and RWD (then my ’97 GTP) – and each with an 8 cylinder motor rated between 250 and 280 HP.
Oh, and there is an interesting typo that slipped through:
“ . . we rounded up a trio of potent, 3000-horsepower (or so) sedans . .”
Now I’d REALLY like to drive a 3,000 HP GXP – once . .
- Ray
Ready for MY test drive. .
Well – based on several indicators, I suspect that the answer to Kristie H’s initial question from Post #1 is: Nope.
I personally think the GXP represents an attractive proposition, IF:
You want 300+ HP / TQ V8 power and unique sound – and believe that GM has addressed the torque steer & related issues satisfactorily and created a car that is a lot of fun to drive (as early indications suggest) – and –
You want or need 4 doors and ‘sedan’ –ish room in the rear seat area – and –
You want something fun to drive that will also accommodate some family duties, has fold down rear seats, etc. as well – and -
You find the styling acceptable – and –
You seriously considered something like the Grand Prix GTP CompG, and might modify your car with such aftermarket items as a smaller S/C pulley for greater HP / TQ, wider wheels and tires, an exhaust that allows a bit of Internal Combustion ‘noise’ to escape, etc. . . . (All included in the GXP, and covered by the mfr.’s warrantee)
And / Or -
You believe that 90+ percent of a premium sport sedan’s performance is worth something like 60 percent (or so) of a typical premium sport sedan’s price . . .
At an actual (I expect) transaction price (TMV, with discount to invoice + something like $100 / $500, and less current GM ‘incentives’) in the range of $24.5 (for a base GXP with MSRP = $30K) to $31K (if truly “loaded” with an MSRP in the $35+K region) the GXP represents an excellent value.
But I doubt it will be a “hit”.
Too many people will see that it is a V8, but remains FWD, and eliminate it from consideration.
Others will see that it still has ‘only’ a 4 speed automatic, though strengthened to handle the additional HP / TQ loads of the V8.
Others will not even notice that with 303 / 323 HP / TQ (and partly thanks to DoD) it still achieves a 28 MPG EPA highway rating.
We’ll see. I could be wrong.
- Ray
Waiting to drive one before making a final decision . .
He said the 4 speed tranny is there the same reason the Vette has one; they didn't have a 5-6 speed that could handle that much torque.
Additionally, GM didn't see a problem with the FWD (he did say a lot of engineering time went into dealing with the torque steer on this car) due to the many sales up in the great white north. They wanted it to be a sports sedan that was driveable in all climates.
One other thing I remembered that he said, is why they still didn't put a stick in these cars. It's the same reason you don't generally see them in a lot of domestic nameplate vehicles; nobody buys them. The reason the imports bring them over is because it costs them nothing, since they already have to do it for their home markets.
Last item, trivial but I remember it for some reason. They didn't do anything cool with the hood (scoops, etc.), because it costs roughly $5M to run batteries of tests, tool a new hood, etc... and it just wasn't cost effective to do it for a relatively low-volume car.
That said, this is the first US car to come out in awhile that makes me think about parting with my trusty Maxima. I didn't even know this car existed until I saw it (along with the other Pontiac junk) on the front page of a local dealer's ad yesterday. I actually made some sort of exclaimation that startled my wife and baby, something like, "They're putting V8s in Grand Prixs again!!".
I'll look at them when they hit the lots (if they haven't already, have to check gmbuypower), but realistically I'll hold off for a year or two. Not long enough before they kill it, though, GM has a tendency to do that with "my next" cars (supercharged Olds Intrigue that never saw the light of day, mid-90s Monte SS, a Fiero with guts, etc...).
And yet (finally) the Corvette will receive a version of the 6-speed automatic being offered in the STS-v.
- Ray
Likely to be happy with 4 - but happier with 6 . . .
Possibly.
But if that is the priority, this is not likely the car of choice.
I find it very interesting that car manufacturers are often criticized for putting (relatively) cheap, low performance tires on otherwise sporting vehicles. (The Goodyear RS-As on my ’97 GTP, for example, were absolutely abysmal from a handling perspective. And I replaced them after only about 5,000 miles.)
And then they are criticized for fitting really high performance rubber as OEM. Even on $50K plus Sport Sedans, like the M45 Sport w/19”-ers . . .
- Ray
Fascinated . . .
Case in point the new Ford 500 has a 6 speed automatic, yet is still SLOOOW. 8.5 to 9 second range to 60. Reason is that Ford Tauraus carry over 200 or 203hp V6. Car needs an extra 50hp. 500 weighs more Tauraus.
Case in point, the 4 spd automatic GTO is same or FASTER 0-60 and 1/4 mile then the 6 spd manual version. Manual gives you 4 mpg better though! 25 vs 21.
Case in point a 4 spd auto supercharged 260hp GTP, gets the same 28 mpg highway as a 5 spd manual 4 cylinder 170hp Subaru Outback wagon, both same 3500 lbs. Performance wise the GTP will blow the doors of the std 4 cylinder outback.
Look at all of Honda/Acura's tranny problems with 4spd auto in the V6 Accord, TL etc. So Honda comes up with new improved 5 spd auto, same troubles... trannies not holding up. Recalls, extended warranty on tranny etc. 4 cylinder ACcord was fine. V6 models
This will be a limited number run of models, dealers will hold for the highest value they can on the car, simply because they will have 1 or 2 at best on the lot.
Cannot compare this GP model to the base junk at others (Ford 500, etc). You can say side by side to a 300 Hemi. But, the same will apply to the 300 Hemi, which will see dealers having limited inventory thus $$$. Base and mid level models will have you getting the GREAT DEALS, I am afraid that the GXP will have others questioning where the $$ is in realtion to competitors, not to mention a resale value that will drop like a ROCK.