BMW 3-Series Tires and Wheels
Need some help!
I have 325i 2006 with 24000 miles on it.I have original Bridgestone 205 55 16 RFTs.These tires have deteriorated significantly in terms of comfort and ride.They were pretty quiet during the first 10,000 miles but after that they started making unbearable noise.At 65 miles/hour it sound like you are sitting in a helicopter.
I am also struggling to get rid of these tires and replace them with regular 18 inches tires. At this time I don't care much about RFTs.
Any suggestion:
1. What wheel and tires i should go for. RFTs VS Regular what options I have?
2 Do Contiprocontact SSR runflats,come in 18 inches.
3. Will there be any significant effect in handling if I go two numbers higher. (I mean from 16 inches to 18 inches).
SIT
I have 325i 2006 with 24000 miles on it.I have original Bridgestone 205 55 16 RFTs.These tires have deteriorated significantly in terms of comfort and ride.They were pretty quiet during the first 10,000 miles but after that they started making unbearable noise.At 65 miles/hour it sound like you are sitting in a helicopter.
I am also struggling to get rid of these tires and replace them with regular 18 inches tires. At this time I don't care much about RFTs.
Any suggestion:
1. What wheel and tires i should go for. RFTs VS Regular what options I have?
2 Do Contiprocontact SSR runflats,come in 18 inches.
3. Will there be any significant effect in handling if I go two numbers higher. (I mean from 16 inches to 18 inches).
SIT
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I referred to his Msg # 5830. I got gist of it but couldn't figure out last part of it, where he talks about adhesion. I am coping and pasting his message as below.
"Hmmm, I've been hearing more and more reports of tire and wheel damage to late model cars with 18" and larger wheels. Personally I don't find that at all surprising. When I got my 2002 530i SP it came with 235/45 R17 tires and any number of folks I knew informed me that I was being dumb/stupid/cheap/too conservative with my car because I didn't immediately run out and buy a set of 18s or even 19s for it. In fact, I went the other way and bought a set of 16s for its winter shoes.
Speaking strictly for myself, if I was to opt for a new 330i SP, I would almost immediately shop around for a set of 17" wheels for it and mount the same size Gets Flat rubber that I had on the 530i.
Consider the following overall wheel diameters, sidewall heights and tread width:
Tire Spec ------ Dia. ---- Side --- Width --- Car/Axle
225/45 R17 -- 25.00" -- 3.99" -- 08.86" -- 2006 330i non-SP/Both
225/40 R18 -- 25.09" -- 3.54" -- 08.86" -- 2006 330i SP/Front
255/35 R18 -- 25.03" -- 3.51" -- 10.04" -- 2006 330i SP/Rear
235/45 R17 -- 25.33" -- 4.16" -- 09.25" -- 2002 530i SP/Both
True, tires in the size from my old 5er would be 1.2% larger in diameter (meaning that you'd be going 1.2% faster at any given RPM) but that's still within the built in BMW Speedometer error.
With this type of a change, the absolute limit of adhesion would of course suffer a tad on the rear end of the car and be enhance a tad on the front end, thus allowing the driver to hang the tail out easier (induced oversteer), which isn't a bad thing in my mind, especially considering said limits would still be WAY WAY beyond what can legally be done on the surface streets. A change like this would also greatly enhance tire life as you would have an extra six tenths of an inch of sidewall to absorb a hit, and you'd be able to rotate the tires front to back.
Food for thought. Best Regards, Shipo "
I guess if we go with opion # 4 we should be fine. My only concern is would it make difference 325 VS 330.
SIT
Thinking back on it, my 530i SP did in fact get to the point where the tires were generating the annoying helicopter sounds, and I did solve it. How? I simply rotated my tires. That however is not a luxury available to any E90 SP owner with stock rubber because the SP on that model uses wider tires in the rear than in the front.
So, back to my old post, if one was to have actually followed my suggestion, not only would they have a very capable set of wheels and tires for sporty driving, they would also benefit from two other features of the 17" set; 1) an extra 6/10ths of an inch of sidewall height with which to absorb shock, and 2) the ability to rotate the tires when they start getting noisy.
FWIW #1, the "Helicopter" sounds are from a very small amount of a particular type of wear called "Cupping", which is a wear pattern that exhibits repetitive "Cups" or slightly more worn areas at even intervals around the edge of a tire. Given that BMW uses an independent rear suspension, and given that it is tuned for performance, this type of wear pattern isn't at all unexpected. Given that tire wear is very different front versus rear, a simple rotation will effectively put fresh rubber in the areas of greatest wear.
FWIW #2, my comments regarding "adhesion" were to acknowledge that if one was to track an E90 330 SP with its factory rubber, and then swap the 18" set out for a set of 235/45 R17 set at all four corners, the lateral grip at the front of the car will improve a little, while the lateral grip at the rear will suffer a little. Given the assumption that BMW has the tires staggered (on the SP cars) such that the car has fairly balanced front/rear adhesion, then by changing to my recommendation, the back end of the car will be able to be broken loose easier. Said another way, an experienced driver should have an easier time of inducing over steer wherever and whenever he/she desires.
Best Regards,
Shipo
SIT
mook
Some OWTs die hard don't they? Ask me how I know. :-/
Hmmm, one tank of mid-grade won't cause any issues once the mid-grade fuel is used up. If you are running on Premium and are still having an occasional unexplained power drop in a certain RPM range, you definitely need to have it looked at.
Keep us posted. ;-)
sit
Do you prefer a specific brand of Tyres and Wheels that go together? I was thinking of Beyern Wheels, no too sure about tires.
This may be sacrilege to admit, but no, I don't have any favorites.
As far as wheels are concerned, I would absolutely make sure that they match the same specifications (i.e. offset and brake clearance) as the stock 17" wheels on the non-SP 330i (or any version of the 330xi), and make sure that they are no heavier.
Regarding the tires, that pretty much depends upon what you are going to be doing with the tires. If I was buying summer rubber for a BMW, I'd probably buy the following tires under the following conditions:
Kuhmo ECSTA ASX: For an SP car that is driven lots of miles annually
Michelin Pilot Sport PS2: For an SP car that is driven no more than 10,000-12,000 summer season miles per year and maybe even sees a little track time.
Kumho ECSTA MX: For a car that is tracked regularly.
Bridgestone Potenza S-03 Pole Position: For a car that is tracked regularly AND the owner is good enough to be near the top of the class.
I'm sure that MANY folks have reasons to both agree with those recommendations and/or shoot them down. Why? Said recommendation is my opinion and what I would do for my own car. Said another way, my advice and $5.00 will get you a Double Latte at Starbucks. ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
Could it be that Michelin has cut back the number of sizes that they make the tire in?
Best Regards,
Shipo
Sorry about the incorrect info.
I'd take the Ecsta any day over a Potenza SA-01. I've had Ecstas on a few cars- BMWs included - and I'm sure I'll replace the lousy runflats on my 330i with Kumhos too.
I wore out a set of Pilot Sport AS's, which were fine tires, but expensive. I have about 18K miles on my Kumhos, which were (as I recall) about half the price & am very pleased, so far.
JV
Best Regards,
Shipo
I did order Kuhmo ECSTA ASX from discount tires direct as a separate GFTs. (tires and wheels package balanced, mounted and ready replace existing set of wheels/tires.).
Soon after I put this new wheel/tire package I noticed that car started "wandering". It appeared that I kind of lost control over steering.
Discount tires agreed to return wheel and recommends up grading the tires?
For now I am driving with new set of Conti's RFTs till I get a better deal.
SIT
Please keep us posted.
Keep us posted.
Best Regards,
Shipo
I would like to replace the original low profile tires (Bridgetone Potenzas, 225/?)with meatier tires as I can no longer tolerate the clunk from highway expansion joints.
Any thoughts on diminished handling and the effect on speedometer calibration?
I appreciate any input/comments.
Best Regards,
Rob
If you want more sidewall, you can "Minus One" in size and drop down to the 16" wheel and 205 section width tire combo that is used by the non-SP cars. Changing to those tires will do the following things to your car:
- Reduce road noise, harshness and vibration
- Reduce steering response (i.e. the car will react more slowly to steering inputs)
- Reduce road holding at the limit
- Not affect your speedometer calibration at all
- Allow you to buy less expensive and (in the case of All-Season tires) longer lasting tires
- Reduce the value of your car (assuming that you don't keep the original wheels and tires)
Best Regards,
Shipo
I guess keeping the 17" wheel and getting more sidewall won't fit in the wheelwell?
Rob
Everything shipo mentioned above will still apply, just maybe not to the same degree.. All-season tread tends to be thicker and squishier than summer tires and that should even out your ride some... though not to the degree of switching to 16".
It is worth a shot, and cheaper than getting new wheels..
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The front tires are probably fine, but I'm worried about the rear tires since the OEMs are 255/35/R18. Tyrerack however, says these tires can fit into max 9 in wide wheels. Is this the width of the rear wheel? So is this setup okay or should I get new rear tires?
The Fusion Zr1 is a decent tire, so if I were you, I'd keep the 225's installed in the rear. If you don't like the way the car handles (some people find understeer reassuring and safe feeling), you can replace them with wider tires whenever you want.
Regarding tire rotation, the BMW service manual says tires are not to be rotated on the 3-series, not specifically because of the tire size difference but mainly because of the way the suspension is configured/designed, and that tire wear WILL differ between tires.
Also I guess i can't rotate anyway because the wheels are in fact wider at the rear, plus the tires are directional/rotate in one direction only.
The manual simply recommends doing an alignment whenever installing new tires. Someone in this forum might know better.
If you do switch to identical tires all around, you can rotate them; your car won't suddenly handle like a buick as a result. But you would have to do the rotations pretty often.
Okay, here is what the Bentley Service manual says (p020-26):
"BMW does not recommend tire rotation. Due to the car's suspension design, the front tires begin to wear first at the outer shoulder and the rear tires begin to wear first at the middle of the tread or inner shoulder. Rotating the tires may adversely affect road handilng and tire grip."
Well, the rear wheels tend to have more negative camber than the fronts. When cornering, the front tires do "lean" towards the outer shoulder. It sounds like this is what Bentley is talking about.
Personally, I don't buy it. If you rotate regularly, the different wear patterns (front to rear) should balance out. In other words, after the fronts have worn a little bit outside and the rears have worn a little bit inside/middle, rotate them front to rear and all four should "even out."
I put new Pirelli's on my M3 this summer and that's my rotation plan (I carry about 1 degree negative camber in front and 3 degrees negative camber in the rear). So far I've got 2000 miles on the tires and I still have "nubbies" on the outside shoulders at all four corners (I don't drive my street tires too hard, but you should see my RA-1's - can you say shredded?!?!).
the short link:
http://tinyurl.com/ydqygn
the long link:
http://autos.yahoo.com/maintain/repairqa/tires_wheels/ques100_1.html;_ylt=Ajm8.1- D2Ae2PMIZVGzNZ5IaDc78F
I'd say you'll have to balance out the cost of rotation (your time and money) vs the cost of a slightly improved longevity, taking into account the expensive cost and relatively short lifespan of these performance tires.
With BMW's argument, maybe a slightly worn unrotated tire will have more rubber in contact with pavement than a rotated one, so therefore it handles better, until of course it gets completely worn and needs replacement.
Then it begs the question, why don't they just make separate designs for front and back? Is there such a tire?
But then these are just theories, unless of course someone already did actually use 2 sets of rubber, one set rotated and the oher not, and made objective measurements of handling (lateral acceleration, slalom performance, etc.).
Our BMW's tend to have high performance tires that wear quickly, and aggressive camber settings which cause uneven lateral treadwear.
Take my car as described above as a theoretical example. Let's say after 15,000 miles, the insides of my rear tires will be completely worn at the inside tread (due to aggressive negative camber) and the fronts will be worn on the outside shoulder (mild toe-in and cornering load wear).
Without rotating, I would have to buy 2 rear tires every 15,000 miles and 2 front tires every 15,000 miles. That's 8 tires every 30,000 miles. In this scenario, I'm throwing away tires that are only half used because the outside shoulder of the rear tires would still be usable, as would the inside tread of the front tires.
On the other hand, if I rotate, I could swap the tires front-to-rear every 7,500 miles. That means when the rears are half worn on the inside, I move them to the front where the insides suffer minimal wear. At 15,000 miles, all four tires would be half-worn across the entire tread. At 30,000 miles I would replace all four.
This example is over simplified, but illustrates my point. If I rotate, I use the entire tire up before throwing it away and therefore purchase fewer tires.
Of course, this works only on cars that wear unevenly front-to-rear and laterally. If you have a FWD car, have mild alignment settings, or don't drive aggressively, your mileage may vary (pun intended).
What about wheels. On your M3, the rear wheels must be wider, right? So that means you have to unmount the tires from the wheels as you rotate front/back? Won't the car shop charge extra for that?
I would like to entertain the idea of rotating, except my tires are unidirectional (Fuzion ZR1). And these unidirectional tires just look so good...
By the way, I like my tires. Running at 70 mph, most of what I hear is the low-pitched engine 'growl' on my E46 ZHP at about 3000 rpm. As I release the throttle, I could barely hear any road/wind noise. Its actually quiter than my 2002 Odyssey which has P225/60/R16 with about half the treadwear left.
Many sports cars today have a staggered set up to increase rear traction. There are a number of reasons why this is done that we don't have time for here.
Cars that come with a staggered wheel set up are intended to have wider tires in the rear. Your car does well either with or without a staggered set up, but I'm sorry to say, the reason you have four Fusion Zr1's that are the same size is because the place where you bought your car cheaped out on the tires.
When I suggested that you keep them and see how you like them, I meant it as a temporary solution. Ultimately, I see you facing the following choices:
1. Keep your current set up and have a tire shop dismount and remount your tires so you can rotate them.
2. Wear out your rear tires and replace them with 255 series Zr1's.
3. Wear out your rear tires and replace all four with another brand/model tire.
4. Buy new wheels in a non-staggered set up.
It's all going to depend on your own personal preference for how you want the car to drive and how often you either do or don't want to rotate and/or replace your tires.
On the other hand, the rear 225s are more than adequate for my driving style, I believe. I can't imagine myself cornering so hard that the tail would hang out.
If not, I would replace the rears with 255s. If not now, then maybe at some point, and then just keep the leftover 225s for until the fronts wear out.
Thanks!
All seasons are ok for awd but on LI, where I am from, I recommend the winter tires for all 4 wheels. It really gets icy out there.
Do yourself a huge favor and buy a second set of wheels and tires. I just checked (as I still have my 1999 328i saved there), and a full set can be purchased for $784 plus taxes and shipping (figure about $900 when all is said and done). I know that lots of folks are inclined to simply have their winter and summer tires swapped on their factory rims at a shop twice per year, however, the cost of doing that will be more than absorbed within a couple of years by buying the full set and being able to do it yourself.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Revo1 certainly has a much better winter capability, but are they too soft for upstate NY driving. I do love to go skiing so that part of life says get Revo1. But at the same time I fall into Tire Rack's "spirited" category.
And according to Tire-Rack's winter test on LM-25 they are not really any better than the all-season. Any one has some experience with either or both?
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=80
Tire Rack sending the BMW logos n/c.
Best Regards,
Shipo
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