The Lexus dealership is the only one I've ever been to where I actually wanted to buy cars I really couldn't afford just because of the quality of the people there. That data point aside, I support the "car salespeople are slime" opinion.
Thanks for your info John, it is very interesting to see the price differences! I wish MBUSA offered a 1-disc CD player as an option, or better yet standard.
Looking forward to hearing about your new baby's arrival!
Sorry if this is a rehash of an old subject, no time to read through all posts. Has anyone looked into getting the K3 kit to boost output to 220Hp? Supposed to be a bolt-on, I wonder how much it costs.
Does anyone have any input on the theft alarm system? I just put in an order for an 6 speed with the leather/roof combo and the Evolution Package. The sales person told me that an alarm system was not a worthwhile investment. Does anyone have any suggestions?
I'm considering trading my '99 ML320 for a C230. How has the reliability been to this point? I've been burned with early ML's and don't need the hasle again. I'm also being priced out of the MB market except for the C. thanks
Not a problem with the car AT ALL! Only time its been in the shop was to have a driving light replaced for $300.00! That was one expensive racoon, at least I can be glad that it wan't a deer.
BTW the shop experience was excellent. They were ready for me when I got there, it was finished when they said and I was on my way in an hour!
The tension roller on my sunroof broke in the second week that I owned the car. And I still think that the overall design of the blinds bites.
But, having said that, the car has been solid otherwise. And, if you get a headlight protection kit, you don't have to worry about the problem that rock had (he's old enough to know better anyway). I've had my car since the end of Sept, and have almost 3k on it. It's great.
I have only had mine for 40 miles and except for the guy who rear-ended me at mile 11 (he was only going about 2-3 mph) it has been a perfect experience. Going to the dealer today to get an estimate to fix the bumper..... :-)
Don't feel too bad John. At mile 245 I turned too early while backing out and bumped a post in our carport, pushing in the fender in a bit. $500 hard ones later it looks like new! But now, the cherry has been broken, it actually was kind of a relief... (yeah right!)
Just wondering if anyone has leased a coupe from Mercedes in the past couple weeks and if so what the residual was. A couple months ago I was quoted 70% on 24 months and 65% on 36 for a 15k a year lease. I am not expecting to take delivery until late February and am trying to get an idea of how badly these will slip between now and then. It would be nice to be able to lock in rates like a mortgage. It is brutal to watch my payment increase as I wait. Thanks.
I don't think that the generalization that some of you are making about car sales representatives can be justified. I'm aware of the stigma that is attached to the title, "car salesman" but there are some exceptions out there--you just need to shop around! If you're finding yourself feeling apprehensive during the sales process, get out! Don't invest in a dealership that you feel you can't put your trust and faith in!
I consider myself an example of your "atypical" MB sales rep. I genuinely care for my clients. I'm not interested in screwing them over and I always follow-up. This is what you need to look for when you walk into a dealership and you're looking for the right salesperson and sales experience-- 1. a friendly face and a delightful welcome. 2. someone who doensn't jump right into asking you about the car--someone who wants to get to know you first and also find out what your needs and wants are so they can help you find exactly what YOU are looking to purchase. 3. someone who demonstrates the vehicle, accentuating the features that he/she believes would be important to you.
This kind of person is sure to take care of you and won't try to take all your money. and remember-your rep is trying to make a living just like you, so be understanding when they say they can't knock off $6,000 from the MSRP. Be sure to start building a relationship with your salesperson from the start so you can feel good about this big purchase your about to make.
Let me know if you guys have any questions at all. Feel free to write, Brooke
I'm not having much success at finding a C230 with a Manual transmission that's available locally (NJ) to take out for a test drive.
So I'm hoping that one of the C230 owners here might be able to give me some info on how the system is configured...maybe a quick measurement too (or at least a SWAG).
I did test drive a C240 as a surrogate for the C230, as my local salesman said it was the same physical gearbox. Its throws were short (good), gates were precise (good), but the overall height of the stick seemed too high ("bad"), at least versus how I had the seat & armrest adjusted, etc.
Unfortunately, at the time of this test drive, I didn't think of taking a measurement of what would constitute my "feels too high". My guess is that the top of the shifter was perhaps 6-8" above the height of my right knee.
In my current daily driver, this dimension is within ~2"...its much, much lower by comparison to the C240.
What I'm looking for is someone who currently has a C230 with a stick to advise the following:
a) What's the difference in height between the top of your right kneecap and the top of the stick?
b) Did you find this okay or uncomfortable? Was there an unusual period of adjustment? (etc).
c) Have you tried the C240 with stick?
In short, I'm hoping the the location of the stick in the C230 is significantly lower than it is in the C240.
Since you're so close to me, I'd be willing to meet up sometime, and let you take my baby out for a drive. Since it's now got over 3k on the odo, you'd be able to see what the manny is like once it's a little broken in (which, incidentally, is much better than the day that I picked it up). My car: manny, c2, c7, Orion blue, gray cloth, cd changer. I've still got the c7 rims on, but will be swapping to the pkg from Euro Tire by Xmas. Thanks again for the referral. Let me know if you're interested in my most generous offer!
I might be able to meet you down at Eurotire when your appointment comes up, particularly if you're up for a Saturday appointment. You can drop me a line at huntzing @ pica . army . mil and we can make final arrangements offline.
I totally agree with you. I had the best experience ever with both MB salespeople from whom I leased ('95) and bought ('00) my C-Classes. My salesperson in New Jersey in '95 was awesome - very practical, friendly, and matter-of-fact. I ended up learning so much from him! And in Atlanta when I bought my present '00 C my sales rep. was just as excellent too - very much as you describe.
Sure, in my moves and travels I have met some sales people who did not exhibit these qualities - so when it was time to actually buy, I went to the people who had shown me they were as solid and dependable as the product they were selling.
Imho, I think you must do very well - and will continue to do very well - in sales and as a person. Thanks for your post, it makes me feel good to know the elements of true success include honesty and integrity! I will also add you to the (small) list of people from whom I would feel comfortable buying or leasing a car.
I am very interested in getting this car for my wife. it seems like a grown up version of the Mitsubishi Eclipse Turbo we owned 10 years ago (please don't take this as an insult! I loved that car.)
My question centers around the lack of a CD player. I looked at the options list, and the only CD player I could find (k2, k2a) was tied in with a phone (which I don't want).
Is there a separate CD player/changer option? how much does it cost? is it factory, or dealer installed?
We had the changer installed by the dealer and it cost around $900, total. I know, that is high, but after market alternatives are few. I got them to throw in an extra six disk changer for that. Its really too bad they don't offer the CD/cassette combo so many makes offer now. I prefer the single player option and I notice it is offered on the UK models.
I am looking to place an order for the c230 with the c5 option package. I am also thinking about the c1, mainly for the lumbar support. I would like to save the money if the seats otherwise provide enough support. For those of you who have been driving around for a few thousand miles, what's your opinion? Do the manual seats give you enough back support or are you squirming after 30 minutes? Thanks for the input.
After about 2000 miles, I find the std. cloth seats with manual adjustments pretty nice, although rather firm. It seems that you can find a pretty good fit with the adjustments, however, if you have more than one common driver, the power option w/ memory would be a good investment, as these manual seats take a few tweeks to find your "sweet spot". Oh, one other thing from earlier posts regarding the lack of a rear wiper: I have now driven in several good rains, and I have not seen a problem with not having the rear wiper. Even on highways with all the trucks throwing out the spray, I have not seen the need for the rear wiper. Snow may be another issue, but I think if you brush the more than 1" off first, the defroster should keep off any additional build-up.
I have now driven in several good rains, and I have not seen a problem with not having the rear wiper. Even on highways with all the trucks throwing out the spray, I have not seen the need for the rear wiper.
For me, highway speeds were never the problem. It was in congested, stop-and-go city traffic where you need max visibility for surviving lane changes intact, with additional emphasis on doing this during a winter precipitation event without feeling your way along by use of your sheet metal.
Snow may be another issue, but I think if you brush the more than 1" off first, the defroster should keep off any additional build-up.
It is. Accumulating snow in slow traffic is where the problem occurs. I've been in many storms where the combination of the rate of fall and the outside temperatures have conspired to overwhelmed both the defroster, even when assisted by a rear wiper.
FWIW, my standard operating procedure for bad weather driving is to have the car fully warmed up and all windows fully cleared before leaving the parking lot to head home or whatever. Its not generally a case of allowing the system to be behind the power curve at the start. Once underway, I don't want to pull off the road unless its absolutely necessary, because (assuming you even can) traffic volume is typically such that it is unlikey (or dangerous) to try to rejoin the flow in any timely manner.
Overall, what might be the real world for you is not necessarily the same as the real world that I live in. I have a coworker who owns two Audi Coupe GT's - - one has a wiper and one doesn't. I mentioned this subject to him, and he agreed that he misses his wiper when he drives the white one on the "wrong" days.
I've checked my current car's fuse box and its defogger is running solo off of a 30 Amp circuit. Could you do me a favor and check your fuse box to see how many amps its fuse is rated at?
Keep in mind that we're dealing with a 12v system here - - a 30A circuit can only deliver a maximum of 360 Watts of heat, where your typical hair dryer these days is 500/1000/1500 Watts.
The only car that I'm aware of that really did a knockout job on rear window defogging under all conditions is the Porsche 911. My '85 has a dual-stage defogger that pulls in the neighborhood of 50A (!). But it isn't quite the kind of car that you like to drive in snow and ice.
-hh
PS: having a good coating of Rain-X helps, but its not a cure-all. It pretty much just lowers your minimum forward velocity required to keep the window blown clear. But Rain-X does nothing for snow or ice.
The basic car is a good value, but the markup on the options leaves me at a loss to try to figure out their strategy - they really motivate me to skip the options because they're asking "too much".
The changer is $775-$1000, depending on when you asked, and if it includes installation labor or not. There's several reports of this item being a salesman negotiating item; around $300 installed seems to be the common "good" price point, which is about what its worth to me.
M/B claims that the changer is an Alpine, but other reports had it pegged as a "Becker" ("BE2662"). The system uses a digital fiber optic link, which is what makes the system proprietary and prevents after market plug-ins.
To avoid spending ~$900, the first alternative is to get the salesman's price down to something reasonable. In my opinion, I'm willing to pay $300 installed.
The second alternative is to get the functionally same product elsewhere. It appears to be the BE2662 model; figure ~$500. The installation should be fairly straightforward, although there appears to be some questions here and there. Requires some research.
The third alternative is to add an after market FM modulated 6-CD changer. These run $99-$300, with the upper value typically including installation. The down side is that it won't be fully integrated into the existing head unit... you'll have a little "fob" to manage the 6-CD deck with. I don't think a "walkman" type cassette adaptor will work: the head unit has a closing door; check first.
The fourth alternative is to pull the entire system and replace it with an after market system. You'll lose some integration features, but pick up a better overall system at a lower price, particularly if you include the cost of the optional BOSE system ($610; was originally $810, without the cost of the 6-CD changer).
On the cell phone options (K2 & K2A), they run $1795 & $2190. Both include the aforementioned CD player, and perhaps if I was someone who talked more than 30 minutes/month on a cell, the integration features might be important to me, but at a $1000 markup, I really doubt it. I personally can very easily skip the cell phone and its integration entirely.
Well, I have to thank Huntzinger for asking me to find out what the amp rating for the rear defogger fuse is. It made me get out my book, and find out where the fuse box is. Found it. However, I can't tell which fuse is the rear defroster. Oh well. I'm sure someone out there will know this. I find that all this hub-bub about not having a rear wiper is funny. I mean, after all, if it doesn't have one, and you can't get one, and you really MUST have one....well then, don't buy a C230K. I just don't think I need it, and don't care if MB won't put one on. If there was a car out there that was "everything to everybody" then there would be only one car to choose from. The C230K suits me fine, even without that terribly overlooked rear wiper.
...this is the Internet - no common sense allowed. ;o)
Besides, Hunzinger is an otherwise literate contributor, once you get around his rear wiper obsession!
On topic, my dealer called yesterday about finalizing my order (whatever that means). Now if I could just win the game of phone tag we seem to be playing...
I find that all this hub-bub about not having a rear wiper is funny. I mean, after all, if it doesn't have one, and you can't get one, and you really MUST have one....well then, don't buy a C230K.
Yes, that's still an option, believe it or not.
The problem is that there aren't really too many "hatch-like" European cars out there, so I'm going to have to be disappointed about some aspect of the vehicle that I settle on.
I just don't think I need it, and don't care if MB won't put one on.
There are probably many regions that don't particularly need a wiper. Personally, I just would have liked to have seen it as an available option.
One alternative I've been starting to look into is to hire an aftermarket vendor to do custom fabrication. I know that there's a couple of MB houses often mentioned in _European Car_. Anyone have any suggested vendors?
I was interested in a cd player but don't like multi-disc changers. I found that Sony makes a single disc changer that will fit in the dash under the radio. The unit has an out put that splices into the antenna lead and is tuned onto the FM dial. I was quoted a price of >$200 installed. It skirts the fiber optic problem and provides a clean installation out in the open without hiding it in the glove box.
Man, has this discussion ever pushed me into looking into my cars owners manual. I was unable to identify which fuse is the Rear Defroster. On pg. 314 of the C230K manual (or better stated.. Novel of almost 400 pages)it shows the rear hatch compartment with fuses. After continuing to look for which fuse is the right one, I discovered that the actual fuse compartment is under the hood. That rear compartment houses the "auxiliary fuses". Well, not to be outdone by a confusing owners manual, I read on pg. 311 that a fuse chart is located in fuse box in passenger compartment, pg. 312. Wow, another fuse compartment. Here I actually found the fuse chart. This car has so many gizmos. Anyway, if any other owners are out there that have not taken the time to locate the 3 areas that house fuses, you might want to take a few hours to figure all this out! So, to finally answer Huntzinger's question,from post 675, the rear defroster has 2 fuses listed. 40 amp, and 7.5 amp. I assume the 40 amp is the answer. I would recommend that if you get this car, that you don't jump into a custom fabrication of a rear wiper right away. I think you will be delighted with this car, and the rear wiper issue may fade into the horizon through the rear lift gate window. (although a little distorted if your looking in the rear plexiglass stuff). Good Luck.
...the rear wiper issue may fade into the horizon through the rear lift gate window. (although a little distorted if your looking in the rear plexiglass stuff).
Is that a complaint? :-)
Actually, my (beloved and still missed) ancient VW Scirocco had a rear wing that split the rear window. It was a useful gage to determine just how close a tailgater was:
Headlights above the wing: Ok. Headlights hidden by wing: Close. Headlights UNDER the wing: TOO close!
In really dire weather conditions, the "underwing" (lower) window also afforded some additional rearward visibility. Not good, but better than literally nothing.
That little bit of plexiglass type stuff gives a distorted view, but I think it's main purpose was for looks. It has this swoop of dark glass from the windshield all the way back to the hatch bottom....nice touch. I find that in backing it is helpful to judge distance from shorter items, and I suppose it would be good for the aforementioned purpose of tailgater judging too. It would be nice if it were clearly undistorted, but not a big deal.
My horn did not work so I hunted for the "horn" fuse and could not find it on the long list of fuses. So I took the car back to the dealer and the service guy thought a minute and remembered that the horn is listed as "fanfare", no wonder I could not find it. Other than that little glitch, the car has been great. I have put 6,000 miles on it in 6 weeks.
Tailgating is as common as stripmalls in Jersey. No such thing as a zoning board here with a backbone, so we get Home Depots every mile, so lots of on/off crap. Gotta love that bumper-to-bumper traffic.
BTW: I ordered my rear deck spoiler extension from Renntech today. Hopefully, I'll have it installed by New Year's. I'll take some pics afterwards, and make them big so that you won't have to get out the bifocals. They're prepping a ccoupe for the LA shows, so they should have their ccoupe parts list finalized soon, including a steering wheel and shift knob with aluminum trim. I'll finally be able to get a shift knob replacement.
Solley - I thought that my mileage was bad at 4,000 since late September, with only a 16-mile round-trip commute. I'm impressed!
This week I took delivery of my C-230 Sports Coupe here in Phoenix. I highly recommend the dealership -- Schumacher European of Scottsdale -- as well as my salesperson, Dianne Hamilton. I was treated professionally, with great respect and courtesy. There was no pressure of any kind. I was able to test drive the car in a variety of driving conditions. She was as candid and forthright as any automobile salesperson I’ve ever dealt with.
As a result of reading this forum closely, as well as all the C-230 reviews as I could locate on the web, I knew I wanted a White C-230 Sports Coupe finished in Oyster Leather, with automatic transmission, Wheel Package (C7), Premium Package (C5), Value Added Package (C1) and Integrated Timeport Phone and CD Changer (K2).
I was fully expecting that such a car would have to be built to my specifications, and that it would take anywhere from eight to twelve weeks to deliver. However the management of this dealership quickly went to work on my behalf, and within a few hours was able to locate a White C-230 Coupe which had just arrived at the port in Los Angeles, already equipped exactly as I wanted. They were able to work out a “swap” with another dealer, and I was able to take delivery of my new car here in Phoenix eight days later.
I purchased the car outright. With only two Mercedes-Benz dealerships in the Phoenix area, and only three in the entire state, I was unable to obtain price reductions as sometimes found in states with greater dealer populations. However, this dealership was able to offer me the full current Blue Book trade-in value on my 2000 Infiniti I30t. (It also provided an interior sunshade, and two silver key rings.)
As anticipated, the car handles beautifully with the 17” wheel package. It’s four cylinder 192 hp Kompressor engine provides plenty of acceleration, reaching 60 mph almost as rapidly as the six cylinder 227 hp engine in my Infinity I-30t. The Power Seats and telescoping steering wheel can be set at a very comfortable driving position for my six foot frame. The Bose Sound System is impressive. The Timeport cell phone docked in the console brings the voices of those I call through the car’s speakers crisply and cleanly. The glass roof gives this small car a more roomy feeling than I expected from a coupe. While rear visibility at the corners is not the best, the car’s build, at this point anyway, seems to be flawless. (My dealership informed me that my car was among those randomly selected at the LA port by Mercedes inspectors to be evaluated in terms of drive and build quality, accounting for the 65 miles on the odometer at delivery.)
This car, my first Mercedes-Benz, is a joy to drive, and meets all of my expectations. If anyone has any specific questions, I would be happy to respond.
and congratulations on your new MB C230! Sounds like you had a very good purchase experience. We appreciate you sharing all the details... and look forward to hearing more. Happy motoring!
Haven't tried a 2X4 (may not be able to close the hatch), but a few days ago I brought home a 5' Douglas Fir Christmas tree with the hatch closed and several packages...
First of all, it took 2 hrs to get from Secaucus to Fairfield - 46 West was down to one lane, due to construction. Then, it took 3 hours for Bill & the boys to get comfortable with the steel rims on the car. First, they had to get different lug bolts for them, then they had to machine a couple of them down so that they were clearing everything. Luckily, I didn't want to be at work today anyway. The black rims look pretty good, actually. Rock, have you tried to fit your rocking chair in the back area yet?
But of course. Since I have to have it all the time I had a chance to put it in when I drove it. (BTW, we must have the same sick humor [I like that in a person] because I was thinking of giving you that shot). Have a Merry Christmas, my friend!
Had to take a quick trip from SW VA to Memphis. 698 miles, 70 mph average and 30.1 mpg. Not bad for a car with less than 5000 miles on it! I'm pleased, not bad for a new car and an old man, eh p13?
I drove mine after 3 weeks of ownership from n. NJ to the Outer Banks; it's a really smooth car at high speeds, ain't it? Since it's Xmas time, I won't make any geriatric jokes today. 'Tis the season.
Maybe I should change my name from "lukyme". First I hit this macho skunk with huge stink glands on the way home from picking up my new C230K. Now with 2500+ miles I get rear ended while stopped in traffic. Not very lucky. However, I must say how impressed I am with how this car took the hit. This nice young lady rear ended me at about 25 mph. I see her coming, so I take my foot off the brake to try to ease the punch. Whamm. I thought for sure I would see a crunched rear end, complete with broken plexiglass, ect. After making sure she was OK (Both of her Air Bags deployed), I was amazed to find hardly any noticeable damage to my car. Only noticed a little indentation on the bumper. However, the body shop found some minor hidden damage, but this car took the hit incredibly well. This car is built like a rock. I'm sold on MB.
Dealer offered a 3.5% discount (~$950), but they had low balled the trade by nearly this amount, plus gave themselves an additional CYA back door escape of: "trade is subject to reappraisal at delivery".
So I ran the numbers for tax, T&T. This totalled up to $24008 by my numbers, so I offered $24K flat.
Salesman asked "where did the $100 come from?" And I replied that it was my estimate of their fee for title/tags. He said they charged $300 for this.
I pretty much said "so what", pointed out that we were only $200 apart and reiterated my offer of 24 flat.
They turned me down (without the salesman even going to the manager), so I walked. They're obviously not hungry, and there's nearly a half dozen other MB's within an hour's drive, one of which has offered $1K off sticker, but hasn't seen my trade yet.
Question:
Is a $300 fee for title & tags as outrageous as I think it is? For example, my wife only paid $110 last year for her Audi A4.
What has been typical at your M-B dealerships? (I'm in NJ, which will make a slight difference)
In CT dealers charge 200-300 "conveyance fee", which is just their additional profit. I figured that into my calculations when deciding on a price. You can get the 230 coupe for invoice +3%, + the $250 conveyance fee from MB of Greenwich in CT. Jordan Lechter is the sales person I dealt with.
I was stopped at a traffic light and noticed the driver of the car coming up behind me looking at the passenger while talking to her, not paying attention to what was in front of her, and certainly not slowing down :-O
The passenger's eyes bugged out as they approached our mutual doom, but the driver hadn't yet noticed. So, I laid on my horn, and sure enough it worked. Although the person ahead of me wondered what the hell my problem was ;-)
Has anyone had the opportunity to drive the C230 in some nasty winter weather? How did the car handle in the snow? I haven't driven a rear wheeled vehicle in 15 years and it is my biggest concern in going with the 230.
Comments
Looking forward to hearing about your new baby's arrival!
- Paul
LK
BTW the shop experience was excellent. They were ready for me when I got there, it was finished when they said and I was on my way in an hour!
But, having said that, the car has been solid otherwise. And, if you get a headlight protection kit, you don't have to worry about the problem that rock had (he's old enough to know better anyway). I've had my car since the end of Sept, and have almost 3k on it. It's great.
I consider myself an example of your "atypical" MB sales rep. I genuinely care for my clients. I'm not interested in screwing them over and I always follow-up. This is what you need to look for when you walk into a dealership and you're looking for the right salesperson and sales experience--
1. a friendly face and a delightful welcome.
2. someone who doensn't jump right into asking you about the car--someone who wants to get to know you first and also find out what your needs and wants are so they can help you find exactly what YOU are looking to purchase.
3. someone who demonstrates the vehicle, accentuating the features that he/she believes would be important to you.
This kind of person is sure to take care of you and won't try to take all your money. and remember-your rep is trying to make a living just like you, so be understanding when they say they can't knock off $6,000 from the MSRP. Be sure to start building a relationship with your salesperson from the start so you can feel good about this big purchase your about to make.
Let me know if you guys have any questions at all.
Feel free to write,
Brooke
So I'm hoping that one of the C230 owners here might be able to give me some info on how the system is configured...maybe a quick measurement too (or at least a SWAG).
I did test drive a C240 as a surrogate for the C230, as my local salesman said it was the same physical gearbox. Its throws were short (good), gates were precise (good), but the overall height of the stick seemed too high ("bad"), at least versus how I had the seat & armrest adjusted, etc.
Unfortunately, at the time of this test drive, I didn't think of taking a measurement of what would constitute my "feels too high". My guess is that the top of the shifter was perhaps 6-8" above the height of my right knee.
In my current daily driver, this dimension is within ~2"...its much, much lower by comparison to the C240.
What I'm looking for is someone who currently has a C230 with a stick to advise the following:
a) What's the difference in height between the top of your right kneecap and the top of the stick?
b) Did you find this okay or uncomfortable? Was there an unusual period of adjustment? (etc).
c) Have you tried the C240 with stick?
In short, I'm hoping the the location of the stick in the C230 is significantly lower than it is in the C240.
TIA,
-hh
-Hugh
I totally agree with you. I had the best experience ever with both MB salespeople from whom I leased ('95) and bought ('00) my C-Classes. My salesperson in New Jersey in '95 was awesome - very practical, friendly, and matter-of-fact. I ended up learning so much from him! And in Atlanta when I bought my present '00 C my sales rep. was just as excellent too - very much as you describe.
Sure, in my moves and travels I have met some sales people who did not exhibit these qualities - so when it was time to actually buy, I went to the people who had shown me they were as solid and dependable as the product they were selling.
Imho, I think you must do very well - and will continue to do very well - in sales and as a person. Thanks for your post, it makes me feel good to know the elements of true success include honesty and integrity! I will also add you to the (small) list of people from whom I would feel comfortable buying or leasing a car.
Sincerely,
- Paul
My question centers around the lack of a CD player. I looked at the options list, and the only CD player I could find (k2, k2a) was tied in with a phone (which I don't want).
Is there a separate CD player/changer option? how much does it cost? is it factory, or dealer installed?
Any help is appreciated!
Oh, one other thing from earlier posts regarding the lack of a rear wiper:
I have now driven in several good rains, and I have not seen a problem with not having the rear wiper. Even on highways with all the trucks throwing out the spray, I have not seen the need for the rear wiper. Snow may be another issue, but I think if you brush the more than 1" off first, the defroster should keep off any additional build-up.
For me, highway speeds were never the problem. It was in congested, stop-and-go city traffic where you need max visibility for surviving lane changes intact, with additional emphasis on doing this during a winter precipitation event without feeling your way along by use of your sheet metal.
Snow may be another issue, but I think if you brush the more than 1" off first, the defroster should keep off any additional build-up.
It is. Accumulating snow in slow traffic is where the problem occurs. I've been in many storms where the combination of the rate of fall and the outside temperatures have conspired to overwhelmed both the defroster, even when assisted by a rear wiper.
FWIW, my standard operating procedure for bad weather driving is to have the car fully warmed up and all windows fully cleared before leaving the parking lot to head home or whatever. Its not generally a case of allowing the system to be behind the power curve at the start. Once underway, I don't want to pull off the road unless its absolutely necessary, because (assuming you even can) traffic volume is typically such that it is unlikey (or dangerous) to try to rejoin the flow in any timely manner.
Overall, what might be the real world for you is not necessarily the same as the real world that I live in. I have a coworker who owns two Audi Coupe GT's - - one has a wiper and one doesn't. I mentioned this subject to him, and he agreed that he misses his wiper when he drives the white one on the "wrong" days.
I've checked my current car's fuse box and its defogger is running solo off of a 30 Amp circuit. Could you do me a favor and check your fuse box to see how many amps its fuse is rated at?
Keep in mind that we're dealing with a 12v system here - - a 30A circuit can only deliver a maximum of 360 Watts of heat, where your typical hair dryer these days is 500/1000/1500 Watts.
The only car that I'm aware of that really did a knockout job on rear window defogging under all conditions is the Porsche 911. My '85 has a dual-stage defogger that pulls in the neighborhood of 50A (!). But it isn't quite the kind of car that you like to drive in snow and ice.
-hh
PS: having a good coating of Rain-X helps, but its not a cure-all. It pretty much just lowers your minimum forward velocity required to keep the window blown clear. But Rain-X does nothing for snow or ice.
The basic car is a good value, but the markup on the options leaves me at a loss to try to figure out their strategy - they really motivate me to skip the options because they're asking "too much".
The changer is $775-$1000, depending on when you asked, and if it includes installation labor or not. There's several reports of this item being a salesman negotiating item; around $300 installed seems to be the common "good" price point, which is about what its worth to me.
M/B claims that the changer is an Alpine, but other reports had it pegged as a "Becker" ("BE2662"). The system uses a digital fiber optic link, which is what makes the system proprietary and prevents after market plug-ins.
To avoid spending ~$900, the first alternative is to get the salesman's price down to something reasonable. In my opinion, I'm willing to pay $300 installed.
The second alternative is to get the functionally same product elsewhere. It appears to be the BE2662 model; figure ~$500. The installation should be fairly straightforward, although there appears to be some questions here and there. Requires some research.
The third alternative is to add an after market FM modulated 6-CD changer. These run $99-$300, with the upper value typically including installation. The down side is that it won't be fully integrated into the existing head unit... you'll have a little "fob" to manage the 6-CD deck with. I don't think a "walkman" type cassette adaptor will work: the head unit has a closing door; check first.
The fourth alternative is to pull the entire system and replace it with an after market system. You'll lose some integration features, but pick up a better overall system at a lower price, particularly if you include the cost of the optional BOSE system ($610; was originally $810, without the cost of the 6-CD changer).
On the cell phone options (K2 & K2A), they run $1795 & $2190. Both include the aforementioned CD player, and perhaps if I was someone who talked more than 30 minutes/month on a cell, the integration features might be important to me, but at a $1000 markup, I really doubt it. I personally can very easily skip the cell phone and its integration entirely.
-hh
I find that all this hub-bub about not having a rear wiper is funny. I mean, after all, if it doesn't have one, and you can't get one, and you really MUST have one....well then, don't buy a C230K.
I just don't think I need it, and don't care if MB won't put one on. If there was a car out there that was "everything to everybody" then there would be only one car to choose from.
The C230K suits me fine, even without that terribly overlooked rear wiper.
Besides, Hunzinger is an otherwise literate contributor, once you get around his rear wiper obsession!
On topic, my dealer called yesterday about finalizing my order (whatever that means). Now if I could just win the game of phone tag we seem to be playing...
Yes, that's still an option, believe it or not.
The problem is that there aren't really too many "hatch-like" European cars out there, so I'm going to have to be disappointed about some aspect of the vehicle that I settle on.
I just don't think I need it, and don't care if MB won't put one on.
There are probably many regions that don't particularly need a wiper. Personally, I just would have liked to have seen it as an available option.
One alternative I've been starting to look into is to hire an aftermarket vendor to do custom fabrication. I know that there's a couple of MB houses often mentioned in _European Car_. Anyone have any suggested vendors?
-hh
Anyway, if any other owners are out there that have not taken the time to locate the 3 areas that house fuses, you might want to take a few hours to figure all this out!
So, to finally answer Huntzinger's question,from post 675, the rear defroster has 2 fuses listed. 40 amp, and 7.5 amp. I assume the 40 amp is the answer.
I would recommend that if you get this car, that you don't jump into a custom fabrication of a rear wiper right away. I think you will be delighted with this car, and the rear wiper issue may fade into the horizon through the rear lift gate window. (although a little distorted if your looking in the rear plexiglass stuff).
Good Luck.
...the rear wiper issue may fade into the horizon through the rear lift gate window. (although a little distorted if your looking in the rear plexiglass stuff).
Is that a complaint? :-)
Actually, my (beloved and still missed) ancient VW Scirocco had a rear wing that split the rear window. It was a useful gage to determine just how close a tailgater was:
Headlights above the wing: Ok.
Headlights hidden by wing: Close.
Headlights UNDER the wing: TOO close!
In really dire weather conditions, the "underwing" (lower) window also afforded some additional rearward visibility. Not good, but better than literally nothing.
-hh
And the little window doesn't frost over, so if you're really lazy, you can use it to see rearward in a pinch.
BTW: I ordered my rear deck spoiler extension from Renntech today. Hopefully, I'll have it installed by New Year's. I'll take some pics afterwards, and make them big so that you won't have to get out the bifocals. They're prepping a ccoupe for the LA shows, so they should have their ccoupe parts list finalized soon, including a steering wheel and shift knob with aluminum trim. I'll finally be able to get a shift knob replacement.
Solley - I thought that my mileage was bad at 4,000 since late September, with only a 16-mile round-trip commute. I'm impressed!
As a result of reading this forum closely, as well as all the C-230 reviews as I could locate on the web, I knew I wanted a White C-230 Sports Coupe finished in Oyster Leather, with automatic transmission, Wheel Package (C7), Premium Package (C5), Value Added Package (C1) and Integrated Timeport Phone and CD Changer (K2).
I was fully expecting that such a car would have to be built to my specifications, and that it would take anywhere from eight to twelve weeks to deliver. However the management of this dealership quickly went to work on my behalf, and within a few hours was able to locate a White C-230 Coupe which had just arrived at the port in Los Angeles, already equipped exactly as I wanted. They were able to work out a “swap” with another dealer, and I was able to take delivery of my new car here in Phoenix eight days later.
I purchased the car outright. With only two Mercedes-Benz dealerships in the Phoenix area, and only three in the entire state, I was unable to obtain price reductions as sometimes found in states with greater dealer populations. However, this dealership was able to offer me the full current Blue Book trade-in value on my 2000 Infiniti I30t. (It also provided an interior sunshade, and two silver key rings.)
As anticipated, the car handles beautifully with the 17” wheel package. It’s four cylinder 192 hp Kompressor engine provides plenty of acceleration, reaching 60 mph almost as rapidly as the six cylinder 227 hp engine in my Infinity I-30t. The Power Seats and telescoping steering wheel can be set at a very comfortable driving position for my six foot frame. The Bose Sound System is impressive. The Timeport cell phone docked in the console brings the voices of those I call through the car’s speakers crisply and cleanly. The glass roof gives this small car a more roomy feeling than I expected from a coupe. While rear visibility at the corners is not the best, the car’s build, at this point anyway, seems to be flawless. (My dealership informed me that my car was among those randomly selected at the LA port by Mercedes inspectors to be evaluated in terms of drive and build quality, accounting for the 65 miles on the odometer at delivery.)
This car, my first Mercedes-Benz, is a joy to drive, and meets all of my expectations. If anyone has any specific questions, I would be happy to respond.
Phil D.
Revka
Host
Hatchbacks / Station Wagons / Women's Auto Center Boards
I expect that with the back seats down and snaking it between the driver & passenger that you should be able to close the hatch...
-hh
PS for Tom: did Bill's alternate rims fit OK?
Rock, have you tried to fit your rocking chair in the back area yet?
However, I must say how impressed I am with how this car took the hit. This nice young lady rear ended me at about 25 mph. I see her coming, so I take my foot off the brake to try to ease the punch. Whamm. I thought for sure I would see a crunched rear end, complete with broken plexiglass, ect.
After making sure she was OK (Both of her Air Bags deployed), I was amazed to find hardly any noticeable damage to my car. Only noticed a little indentation on the bumper. However, the body shop found some minor hidden damage, but this car took the hit incredibly well. This car is built like a rock. I'm sold on MB.
My car was totalled.
What tires are you using?
Then again, maybe those from Buffalo haven't been able to find their garage doors this week, or are too busy shoveling out to be reading Town Hall
C230 w/ C4, C7 & paint... $27805 before trade, tax, title/tags.
Dealer offered a 3.5% discount (~$950), but they had low balled the trade by nearly this amount, plus gave themselves an additional CYA back door escape of: "trade is subject to reappraisal at delivery".
So I ran the numbers for tax, T&T. This totalled up to $24008 by my numbers, so I offered $24K flat.
Salesman asked "where did the $100 come from?" And I replied that it was my estimate of their fee for title/tags. He said they charged $300 for this.
I pretty much said "so what", pointed out that we were only $200 apart and reiterated my offer of 24 flat.
They turned me down (without the salesman even going to the manager), so I walked. They're obviously not hungry, and there's nearly a half dozen other MB's within an hour's drive, one of which has offered $1K off sticker, but hasn't seen my trade yet.
Question:
Is a $300 fee for title & tags as outrageous as I think it is? For example, my wife only paid $110 last year for her Audi A4.
What has been typical at your M-B dealerships? (I'm in NJ, which will make a slight difference)
-hh
The passenger's eyes bugged out as they approached our mutual doom, but the driver hadn't yet noticed. So, I laid on my horn, and sure enough it worked. Although the person ahead of me wondered what the hell my problem was ;-)