If you WANT to have fun on wet leaves/leave a nice pair of Michelin rubber stripes on the road, turn the ESP off (toggle the switch on the dash - top left center). Mine's on 99.9% of the time, but its a hoot when its off. I'm glad I have it and even more glad that it can be turned off when "Harry Highschool" revisists these old bones!
i have a set of brand new brabus monoblock V 2PC wheels for sale. i just bought it but my financial situation is forcing me to part with it. these wheels have been authenticated by brabus of north america in Newport beach. they are 19/8.5 for the front and 19/9.5 for the back. the tires are pirelli P7000 265/30 and 235/35...all brand new and never used. the tires are mounted,balanced and the wheels are ready for installation right away. i will deliver anywhere in southern cali. these rims are perfect for C/E/S/CL class and others. i am asking for only 6000(negotiable) when brabus is selling it for about 7000...thats one thousand dollars off for brand new wheels. pls contact me 949-4130897 or email at calvinlgoh@hotmail.com.
I also drove a 6 speed manual (3 times). I was very disappointed in the manual. Shifting was terrible. Where is the MB refinement I was expecting? I also found the clutch lacking. It has a very abrupt engagement which makes downshifting smoothly almost impossible. I would have bought the car if the MB engineers had been serious about providing a manual trans option. They should go to BMW or Honda "school". Both of those car makers know what they are doing in that regard. Just drive a manual RSX.
I test drove the C230 today, and I was also a little dissapointed with the stick shift. I was figuring with a Benz, shifting it would be like cutting warm butter. There is definitely some resistance I'd rather not have.
The car itself is gorgeous, and feels solid as rock... like a little tank. I'd feel pretty safe in this car should an accident happen, and I love the side/curtain airbags in the back seat - added protection for when kids are being hauled around.
The interior was also first rate. The number of standard features, free maintenance, ultra-safety, the Benz "badge", comfort, what have you... for a 25k sticker... just totally amazing. This baby is only a few grand more than an Accord Coupe (if you don't load it up with options). This 230C truly is a bargain, especially with the lease deals being offered.
But that said, I just wasn't convinced that I wanted this as my daily driver, and that was largely because of the shifter. Still on my list, and I intend to take another test drive soon.
No car is perfect. I can say this, though, about the c230's manny: it gets better over time. I've had mine now for about 3 weeks and 1,000 miles, and you get used to it, and it feels less notchy now. Of course, if I get out my crx and drive that, the smoothness is like night and day.
I kind of agree about MB's sincerity about mannies. I would guess that they just don't care too much about developing a following with their manual versions of their cars.
I just got finished reading your review at the vwvortex. It's funny how you can almost write what the responses will be from the "vw or nothing" crowd before you see them. Your review was right on.
I don't get where people are saying that you can get a new 3 series for 26k, or that a nicely-equipped c230 will come out to 33k. Seems like people will stretch the truth out to fit their own needs.
Haven't even looked at an RSX. I looked at the Integra around the time that I got my Passat 3 years ago. Basically, it came across as a Honda Civic, but with an Acura badge (and Acura sticker price). And being tall, my head basically touched the roof. Literally. I could either recline the seat way back, or risk breaking my neck if the car went over a bump.
Yes, it is funny how people will pile on options to make the 230C seem more expensive than it is. For options, almost all of it is needless anyhow. The roof is certainly nice. But power seats with memory? Why would I waste money on power seats with memory. It is my car. Once I put on the setting I like, it is going to stay that way until the lease expires.
But really, even a "stripper" 230C has just about every feature anyone could want. I am definitely going to give it a second test drive.
I just picked up my new c230 from the dealership yesterday here in Houston, Tx. It's a great car. I love it more now than when I test drove it. I basically bought it for MSRP+Cdchanger+panaroof+destination+paintupcharge(orionblue)for $28153. I was not willing to pay $30000 or more for this car so I didn't get leather or Bose or power seats package. I got the oyster cloth which I prefer here in Texas. Everyone says that you have to get leather, especially for resale with Mercedes, but they forget that it's summer here 7 months of the year and have to endure sitting on those hot leather seats. I don't like literally being burned or stuck to the seats with our hot weather. Ok if your car is garaged all of the time, but not where I work or shop or play, only at home do I have a covered parking spot. Personally, I've never been interested in having a Mercedes. I always thought of it as a stuffy kind of car for older people. I never thought of them as fun or particularly sporty cars. I was all set to put my money down on a Toyota MR2 Spyder, but after coming back from the Toyota dealership while inquiring about the order process, I was researching more cars on the internet to solidify my decision and then I saw a link to Mercedes and thought what the hell, I'll give it a look. I had just been there months ago and didn't see anything that appealed in my $32000 cutoff budget. But there it was, news about a new c230 coupe coming out this summer. I researched it thoroughly and 3 months ago, I was the first to test drive the first c230 at our dealership here in Houston. I put down my deposit and eagerly awaited. Most people will say that you just wanted a Mercedes that you could afford and just for the status of it, but that would be far from the real issue. The fact is that this is a great car chock full of standard features for the money. The c230 is a car of great value, build, and great innovation for the money and yes, it just happens to be a Mercedes. I just traded in my 7 1/2 yr old Honda Civic EX coupe to get this car. I love Honda and might have bought an Accord or Prelude, but this car just fascinated me. I was also looking at a Dodge Stratus and the previously mentioned Toyota MR2 Spyder or even the Mazda Miata. Lexus 300 got my serious attention, but it looks just like a Civic with a Lexus badge. I couldn't get past that asthetic. BMW325 was another serious consideration, and while I like BMW and have recommended them to other friends, BMWs are a dime a dozen here on the roads and I wanted something that was more unique that everyone didn't already have. I have yet to see another c230 on the road here which is strange considering that Houston is such a car city. Most people here own more than 1 vehicle. We don't have mass transit or want it. I did get a lot of curious looks driving it home on the freeway from the dealership.
I got the 6speed manual transmission. While a lot of people have dogged the 6 in this chat room, I will have to say that yes, it's not as smooth at the onset, but like all of the other manual cars I have bought, it takes a while to get used to but you get better with it and the shifting gets smoother as you find the right gear/clutch combinations and throws. Every manual transmission is different and feels different at first. After only a day of driving my c230, I'm already finding smoother shifting technique than when I first drove the car. It just takes a little time and practice. You have to remember that most of Mercedes' market is for automatics. They sell very little manuals. They almost never have manuals on the lot, just a fleet full of automatics. As far as the discussion of the Bose sound system, I will have to say that I was relieved with the standard system. After reading the posts here for the past 3 months, I thought I made a huge mistake in not getting the Bose, but if you just like good solid sound with acceptable bass levels, then the standard sound system is good. If you're one of those that just has to have bombastic bass, then get the Bose. I love music and even trained as an recording studio audio engineer so I know something about sound and I have to say that I'm quite happy with the standard system. Yea, I could have bass that shakes the car, the windows, and blares out the car to everyone eles' annoyance, but I appreciate the solid sound in the standard stock Mercedes audio system. I do think the $925(including dealer installation) I paid for the cd changer was outrageous, but I didn't have to time to deal with getting an aftermarket add on. That fiberoptic network is a good gimmick for getting Mercedes more money. Almost all of the car audio shops here refuse to have anything to do with trying to install a cd changer for Mercedes. Only one here does install the Mercedes cd changers and radios, but it is only $200 cheaper than the dealer. Why bother!! Just roll it into the car payment.
The panoramic sunroof is well worth the money. It is the one feature that really sets this car apart from others. I love it. I might not have paid to get the c230 without this option. It's part of what makes this car innovative. Everyone should order one. If price is your consideration in not getting the panaroof, then give up one of the other options like power heated seats, Bose, or upgraded wheel package. Those are common options. The panaroof is the deal!!
My only real complaint so far is with the driver side seatbelt. It is hard to reach once you get in and close the door. Another less annoyance is with the parking brake down by the clutch. I was just so used to my Honda parking brake which was located in the stickshift compartment.
Even my close friends who gave me a hard time about getting this car have quickly changed their attitudes. They dogged it for the price and size and that it was just a gloried Escort are now eating their words. It won them over instantly upon inspection and taking them for a drive. I just sit back and gloat on the inside with a big grin on my face. If anyone is trying to make up their minds about getting a c230, I hope my experience will make your decision easier. This is one car you can definitely feel good about buying and it is truly one of the best values out there.
silverspear....enjoy your new c230. Something that is getting me back into a MB and out of a now comparably priced Japanese car is the part of the car not readily visible. As others have mentioned, the safety and engineering focus of MB is hard to match. For an indicator of the manufacturers mindset, compare options on the c230 and others in the price range. Conspicuously absent from the MB options list are any safety options (other than tele aid)---they are all included in the basic price, and are certainly among best in class. What has influenced me as well is that the safety features on the MB are trickle down from others in the line, not ad ons to just offer options.
Saying that Mercedes doesn't care about manual transmissions or that they are only in the market for automatics would be wrong. They sell many manual transmission cars over in Europe and Asia, in fact probably almost as many automatic cars that they sell.
Consider the resale value of the C230 over an RSX in 4 years or more, and then add in the standard safety features (Mercedes doesn't believe that important safety features should be optional) that no one can match or even offers in this class and price range, and the answer is clear.
But I don't think there's another car on the market which offers rear seat side and curtain airbags. This has to be a very big consideration if you ever transport kids in the back seat.
The Benz safety features are also very welcome given all those 5000+ pound Chevy Suburbans out on the road. At least you have a fighting chance in the Benz.
Yes they do sell plenty of manuals overseas, but I was refering to the U.S market clientele. I think we all know that MB products are inherently well engineered cars that are solid and have tons of standard safety features.
I made a post saying that the manual transmission of the RSX is wonderful compared to the C-coupe. I am not saying that the RSX is a better car or that I am going to buy one. I was making the point that if the engineer's want to, they can engineer a manual transmission that is crisp and buttery smooth like you would expect from a Mercedes. But MB did not. It will be a convienient self fufilling prophercy for them. Many drivers who only want to drive manual cars (like myself) will not buy the C-coupe. The MB management will assume the lack of sales is due to lack of interest and happily go back to making only auto trans cars. As regards to no car it perfect, if you drive a manual car you are shifting ALL THE TIME. The back seat room in not in your face all the time. Its important to some and not too others. For other reasons I would not buy the RSX. But you should try the 5 or 6 speed manual RSX (both are wonderful) just to see how its supposed to be done. You would think the MB engineers should try it too but Im sure they won't.
I've driven a stick all my life. My wife and I ordered a silver C230K in mid-August, it should be in here in a few weeks. The car will primarily be for her, so we test drove the automatic. She drives a stick too by the way, but only because its there in our G20. After testing the coupe with the automatic, which has the wonderful feature of manually selecting the gears or just leaving it in D, I was really impressed. Its basically a clutchless stick. If you want to hold onto a gear and squeeze all the power out of the engine, I believe you can take it to the rev limiter. Not that I'd do that, hee, hee... But for those stop and go situations, which are frequent in the SF bay area, selecting good ol' drive will be my choice until traffic clears and then, I'll want to pretend I'm driving a stick again, which I can. Best of both worlds!
Has anyone seen the ads for the new Hyundai Sonata? If so, did you notice the headlights? They look EXACTLY like the linked circles of the MB C-Class. Oh well, I think it was the MB 300E in the '80's that started the whole craze of the slanted trunk/tail light combination. You know what they say about imitation and flattery.....
a driving enthusiast would never touch an automatic (well that is a little broad, some people have physical disabilities which prevent them from driving stick).
I also go through stop-n-go traffic, and I find that the constant shifting helps alleviate the boredom. But with constant shifting, it is important that the stick be buttery smooth.
...I categorically reject any linkage between "driving enthusiasm" and transmission choice. The two have absolutely nothing to do with each other, and I always have to wonder a bit about people who insist on the connection. I think the automatic is a good choice in any MB, but respect the decision of anyone either way. And I'll stack up my competition skills with anyone on this board... Buy what you want for whatever reasons you want, but lose the value judgments...
I test drove a WRX and a C230 hatchback this weekend. I'm 6' 2" 195 lbs, my girlfriend is 6' 1" 140 lbs. She's a mechanical engineer and more of a speed demon than I, so I was very pleased that she much preferred the C230. I had previously driven both on separate occasions. I too preferred C230, but I preferred the WRX on paper: more power, more torque, all wheel drive, boxer engine allowing great clearance for given centre of gravity.
I had called and made appointments with both dealers. The Subaru lot seemed empty, but it took us an hour to get a car. The Mercedes lot was busy, "my" salesman had customers, so he just gave me the keys; he had already taken a copy of my licence the precious week.
We fitted in both vehicles but, whereas I could feel my hair touching the top of the WRX, there was room to spare in the C230. After she shut the door to the C230, my girlfriend said, "Did you hear that? Let me do it again!" and opened and closed the door again for the sake of the comfortable thud.
The WRX has better figures to 60. It is also probably slightly quicker in real world when really pushed, but it sounds as if it is being pushed. I didn't feel as secure with the WRX, although it may have handled severe corners better there was something about my height above the road and /or the all-wheel drive that sapped my confidence. The steering felt less stable. The back seat feels cheap.
I'm going to buy the c230. I've read that the price is not very flexible, that maybe one can get a CD-changer thrown in. $995 certainly seems very steep, as does $640 for metallic paint. According to Edmund's, metallic paint cost the dealer nothing. HAs anyone tried to negotiate this?
Two further questions.
The optional Bose sound system. My ears are not the best, but I do like the idea of modifying the sound to "subtract the ambient noise" - I'm a geek. How well does it work on the road? I don't need pounding base. Rather, I want to be able to hear quieter bits over the road noise, etc.
Secondly, the accessories list includes a sun roof-wind deflector. This would seem redundant since the sun-roof incorporates one. The incorporated one is far from perfect, however. Has anyone tried this extra deflector? Does it give less noise? How much above the roof does it protrude - I intend to carry kayaks on a roof-rack (don't shoot me). I phoned Mercedes and was told the extra deflector was largely cosmetic. That I find hard to believe - the car looks better without one.
Avnae
PS. I also tried the automatic C230 - much to my girlfriend's disgust. I didn't have time to get used to it, but it seemed unreliable; it didn't seem to change when I commanded it. I may just have been impatient. It also seemed to need to work the engine mush harder than I did in the manual when pushing the car hard.
Interesting. I've also tested the WRX. The 'rex is quite a car and quite a ride. Exciting may be the word. But like you said, the WRX doors go "clink" when shut, and the 230C's go "thunk!" I like the 230C's chances in an accident a little better.
We contacted the dealer today and were informed that west coast deliveries come in through the port of Los Angeles. Our 230 will arrive in a couple of days and ready for pick up here in San Jose, later next week. Has anyone financed their purchase through Mercedes Benz? I was wondering what kind of rates you were quoted. Shopping around and am looking to compare. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Jay
Edmunds is wrong - dealer cost on the metallic paint option is NOT ZERO. If it were only true...
KBB indicates they just don't have the data on what dealer margin is on this particular option, but it is safe to assume 7-10% markup, as in the case of all of the other factory options.
Dealers didn't suddenly get another $600 to play with in margins for this car...always do a sniff test on these online $ listings...if it doesn't feel right, it probably isn't.
Tom and any others, Spoke to my dealer yesterday. He indicated that MB was waiting on the replacement for the seat belt part for cars "stranded" at the port in Baltimore. My poor little C230 is out there waiting to come to it's new home too. Anyway, he is following up and will advise me today of the status. I am most anxious to get it as I have been without my Toyota MR2 Spyder since I sold it 10 days ago. Was supposed to have the C230 already. Just patiently waiting.....NOT. Dennis in Lexington
To enhance your experience here at Town Hall, please note the Additional Resources box on the left side of the page, where you'll find links to other related Mercedes-Benz C230 information.
In addition to our Mercedes-Benz Owners Club, you'll now find direct links to the Edmunds' New Vehicle information on the 2002 Mercedes C230, as well as links to some related reviews and articles. Keep your eyes open for other resources to be linked to that area. Hope this is helpful. ;-)
chip9903, I didn't mean to downgrade the social status of the Mercedes elite by suggesting that some of us can't plunk down $31K out of pocket for a new car purchase. Well, actually I could, but those funds are marked for real estate improvements, and long range THAT is an investment, buying a car is no investment, it depreciates the moment it leaves the lot. So, I'm in a position to finance my purchase, which is 99% of most buyers situation when they look at a major outlay like an expensive vehicle ($31K OTD is major, at least for us.) And I'm aware of the penalty one pays over time to finance a car, its just part of lifes budget if one doesn't wish to ride the bus or drive an old car. If anyone ELSE has any financing information to share, I'd appreciate your writing it here. Thanks!
What is it that MB is waiting for ? a seat belt part ? Is there a technical bulletin on this or is this just something required to be installed at the port to meet US regs ?
It has to do with the pre-tensioners, which are pyrotechnic devices and not to be trifled with. Apparently there were a bad batch at the factory that they want to rectify before the cars get into customer hands. This is not unusual...but that doesn't make it any less annoying if you are waiting for a car that is just sitting there...
If it weren't safety-related, they would put them out there and fix it on the fly, but this is a no-no in a case like this. [These are the little charges that explode to instantly take the slack out of the belt if a collision over a certain speed is detected.]
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Both Edmunds and KBB have the same error in their invoice pricing. They show $0 as the invoice cost for metallic paint, an error. You should add back about $600 to have a correct invoice price. In the NY metro area, and possibly other areas with some concentration of dealers, a bit of telephone work can get a price of about 3% over invoice, with some remaining negotiation possible on dealer prep (usually listed at $200-300) and the advertising charges.
Some dealers swore that the cars were only being sold at invoice, and were insulted at being asked about discounts. Others were quite willing to deal.
While you're waiting for a reponse here, feel free to start up a "Mercedes-Benz C230 vs BMW 325" discussion on the Hatchbacks board if you'd like. You may get more feedback that way. Good luck with your decision.
As of this afternoon, the MB dealer informed me that my C230 has been released from Baltimore port, and is scheduled for transport. 3-4 days to dealer ! So if you are also waiting for the "repair" before the cars are to proceed to dealers, it should be anytime now.
a dealer in the Maryland area told me that leather won't be available until 2002 based on the mad cow epidemic. Is it true that leather orders will not come through until next year?
Whatever the reason, it is true that leather isn't available until next year (which is about 10 weeks anyway). I just ordered a c230 with the c5 package, which has leather, but I requested delivery in Feb. The leather wasn't necessarily my hearts desire but the fabric didn't pass the fashion police (wife and daughter). The fabric is a pattern that will likely evoke strong opinions, favorable or unfavorable, especially the charcoal.
If you order the leather and the sunroof, you wind up with the bose for only about $300 more with the c5 package.
Thanks to those who responded to some of my earlier questions. I've read all the posts on this thread, it seems those who dislike the standard system require more base than it provides. My interest in Bose is not extra base, but that it compares the noise in the cabin with the output from the CD, and adjusts the output to the speakers to compensate for discrepancies. How effective is this system? I read a poster on another board complaining that the Bose simply adjusted the volume - his point was that one's brain automatically compensates for background noise and the Bose system was created a distraction. I'm sure that Bose doesn't just vary volume, but perception should be the ultimate arbiter.
Most people have the sun-roof option. Does anyone have the additional wind deflector? How effective is it? Has anyone compared cars with sunroofs, with and without this accessory? How far above the roof does it protrude?
I just finished going through all of the posts under this topic. I appreciate the tone & candor of the bulk of the contributors.
My current car is a roadster that I am abusing by using it primarily as a commuter car - with the coming of the crappy season in these parts, I'm thinking about getting something more practical, yet still somewhat fun. While I intend to look at several options, the C230 seems to fit the bill best, though the price tag is a little high.
I'm trying to find a 6-speed to test drive in my area, but it's proving to be a formidable task. I'll have lots of comments once I get the chance to drive it. Until then, is there a good owners forum that I can check out?
Has anyone read or spoken with anyone who has actually driven this car in snow? It may have to be a European driver due to delivery time of this car.
I read a previous discussion thread with the same question and the response was "get snow tires", but I'd like to hear from someone who has driven in it (2nd or 3rd hand is good). For 5-10 days of snow a year, I'm not looking for high performance in the snow, just the ability to get around and up and down some hills. I don't want to be walking (stuck) and I'd prefer not going through the snow tire changes.
First, the technology involved in this chassis is not so radically new to MB that you need some kind of fresh new opinion. Consensus around various sources is that light duty in occasional snow, the combination of good all-season tires [the Michelin MXV4s are especially good] and traction control will usually do the job. But "usually" does depend on topography; if hills are part of the picture, remember that traction control keeps you from slipping, but it can also keep you from making any forward progress from a stop on a hill. I'd say give it a try, but be prepared to spend the $600-$700 for a steel-wheel or cheap alloy tire and wheel package from one of the online discounters...these are ready to bolt on and can be delivered to your door in a couple of days from Tire Rack and others.
In mid July I ordered a C230 sport coupe with leather. In two days it will be "born" start being built. It has been a LONG wait but I cannot wait to get my car "sometime towards the end of November". Black, charcoal leather interior, roof and wipers, power seats, Bose system, automatic and lighted door "things".
As for pricing I am leasing, my sister works for MB in a regional finance office so my lease payments for 48 months (and 15,000 miles/year) are 365.89.
I hope the wait was worth it, the comments about the sunroof (bunching material, squeaks, etc) have me a bit scared however, I am almost giddy with excitement.
Can anyone recommend a good M-B dealer in the Bay Area? I'm looking to buy a C230 in the next few months. I live in SF and work in San Jose. I bought an ML 2 years ago in LA, because 1) it was the cheapest, and 2) they didn't have the snotty attitude of MB of San Francisco. I went to Smythe in SJ and got an o.k. feeling about them--but would love to hear if anyone had a particularly good salesperson in the area. Fremont, Oakland, Belmont, etc. Thoughts? Thanks.
Smythe is p.o.s. When i test drove with them they gave me such attitude that I was a young asian kid and just mess around, they dont seem to pay much attention to me. Smythe didnt do enough for the homework and I say I wanted to order the C7 wheel package they insisted there is no such option from MB for $750 and they pretend to know a lot and refused to do some search for me. Then they are very pushy and wanted my $1000 for a deposit for the C230K. Then I went over to Fremont that old guy called Louis gave me a test drove and introduced the car in details. I feel I got respected. He didnt push me for a deal either. also around Fremont its better for test drive because of less traffic, around Smythe is very hard to test out the full power of the car IMHO.
since my family is in oregon so i end up buying the car up there to save 8% sales tax call me cheap or what
BMW handling, silk smooth transmission and shifter, well balanced car but if u live in bay area you throw two stones out of the freeway one will probably hit a 3 series. Bimmers are as common as Honda Civic here. 325i is about $1500-2000 more expensive than the C230 similarily equipped
C230:
A slightly better acceleration due to its low end torque 200tq at 2500rpm and the 6 speed, but by not much. Its shifter is something to get used to. Panorama Roof is the selling point. Similar to a 996 Targa Ride is more comfortable and quiter than the Bimmer. Easily modified to become 230hp 240tq hot hatch, will eat 330i for lunch
Its still not very common on the road, it got a lot looks on the road. hatchback is somewhat acquired taste.
I have to defend the folks at Smythe. Our salesman, Doug DiTullio was excellent from the first hello. He gave one of the most professional test drives I have ever witnessed. Of course he was showing us a car that virtually sold itself. Nevertheless, from negotiation, ordering, communicating with them through the long wait for arrival, to the latest conversations with them, they have been wonderful. Next week we pick up our silver 230 hatch and the Mercedes ownership experience begins.
So were you able to negotiate under MSRP or free throw-in? I didnt talk to Doug but I talked to two other salesperson there and they are simply salesmonkeys, well I didnt meet all the salesman there so I cant conclude the whole Smythe is bad. When I asked them how much is the C7 package they said there is no C7 When I asked them when is MB going to put leather on the car they first said MB hasnt decided to put leather on the car at all and then I insisted they had so they went on and said you can order immediately but I heard they wont have leather until like the end of the year. I mean if u didnt know something then ask your manager dont gave me such an attitude. I hate it when people push me to commit on buying a car right after test drive i mean buying a car is not buying grocery esp it's a 30K car
Comments
The car itself is gorgeous, and feels solid as rock... like a little tank. I'd feel pretty safe in this car should an accident happen, and I love the side/curtain airbags in the back seat - added protection for when kids are being hauled around.
The interior was also first rate. The number of standard features, free maintenance, ultra-safety, the Benz "badge", comfort, what have you... for a 25k sticker... just totally amazing. This baby is only a few grand more than an Accord Coupe (if you don't load it up with options). This 230C truly is a bargain, especially with the lease deals being offered.
But that said, I just wasn't convinced that I wanted this as my daily driver, and that was largely because of the shifter. Still on my list, and I intend to take another test drive soon.
I kind of agree about MB's sincerity about mannies. I would guess that they just don't care too much about developing a following with their manual versions of their cars.
I don't get where people are saying that you can get a new 3 series for 26k, or that a nicely-equipped c230 will come out to 33k. Seems like people will stretch the truth out to fit their own needs.
But really, even a "stripper" 230C has just about every feature anyone could want. I am definitely going to give it a second test drive.
Personally, I've never been interested in having a Mercedes. I always thought of it as a stuffy kind of car for older people. I never thought of them as fun or particularly sporty cars. I was all set to put my money down on a Toyota MR2 Spyder, but after coming back from the Toyota dealership while inquiring about the order process, I was researching more cars on the internet to solidify my decision and then I saw a link to Mercedes and thought what the hell, I'll give it a look. I had just been there months ago and didn't see anything that appealed in my $32000 cutoff budget. But there it was, news about a new c230 coupe coming out this summer. I researched it thoroughly and 3 months ago, I was the first to test drive the first c230 at our dealership here in Houston. I put down my deposit and eagerly awaited. Most people will say that you just wanted a Mercedes that you could afford and just for the status of it, but that would be far from the real issue. The fact is that this is a great car chock full of standard features for the money. The c230 is a car of great value, build, and great innovation for the money and yes, it just happens to be a Mercedes. I just traded in my 7 1/2 yr old Honda Civic EX coupe to get this car. I love Honda and might have bought an Accord or Prelude, but this car just fascinated me. I was also looking at a Dodge Stratus and the previously mentioned Toyota MR2 Spyder or even the Mazda Miata. Lexus 300 got my serious attention, but it looks just like a Civic with a Lexus badge. I couldn't get past that asthetic. BMW325 was another serious consideration, and while I like BMW and have recommended them to other friends, BMWs are a dime a dozen here on the roads and I wanted something that was more unique that everyone didn't already have. I have yet to see another c230 on the road here which is strange considering that Houston is such a car city. Most people here own more than 1 vehicle. We don't have mass transit or want it. I did get a lot of curious looks driving it home on the freeway from the dealership.
I got the 6speed manual transmission. While a lot of people have dogged the 6 in this chat room, I will have to say that yes, it's not as smooth at the onset, but like all of the other manual cars I have bought, it takes a while to get used to but you get better with it and the shifting gets smoother as you find the right gear/clutch combinations and throws. Every manual transmission is different and feels different at first. After only a day of driving my c230, I'm already finding smoother shifting technique than when I first drove the car. It just takes a little time and practice. You have to remember that most of Mercedes' market is for automatics. They sell very little manuals. They almost never have manuals on the lot, just a fleet full of automatics.
As far as the discussion of the Bose sound system, I will have to say that I was relieved with the standard system. After reading the posts here for the past 3 months, I thought I made a huge mistake in not getting the Bose, but if you just like good solid sound with acceptable bass levels, then the standard sound system is good. If you're one of those that just has to have bombastic bass, then get the Bose. I love music and even trained as an recording studio audio engineer so I know something about sound and I have to say that I'm quite happy with the standard system. Yea, I could have bass that shakes the car, the windows, and blares out the car to everyone eles' annoyance, but I appreciate the solid sound in the standard stock Mercedes audio system. I do think the $925(including dealer installation) I paid for the cd changer was outrageous, but I didn't have to time to deal with getting an aftermarket add on. That fiberoptic network is a good gimmick for getting Mercedes more money. Almost all of the car audio shops here refuse to have anything to do with trying to install a cd changer for Mercedes. Only one here does install the Mercedes cd changers and radios, but it is only $200 cheaper than the dealer. Why bother!! Just roll it into the car payment.
The panoramic sunroof is well worth the money. It is the one feature that really sets this car apart from others. I love it. I might not have paid to get the c230 without this option. It's part of what makes this car innovative. Everyone should order one. If price is your consideration in not getting the panaroof, then give up one of the other options like power heated seats, Bose, or upgraded wheel package. Those are common options. The panaroof is the deal!!
My only real complaint so far is with the driver side seatbelt. It is hard to reach once you get in and close the door. Another less annoyance is with the parking brake down by the clutch. I was just so used to my Honda parking brake which was located in the stickshift compartment.
Even my close friends who gave me a hard time about getting this car have quickly changed their attitudes. They dogged it for the price and size and that it was just a gloried Escort are now eating their words. It won them over instantly upon inspection and taking them for a drive. I just sit back and gloat on the inside with a big grin on my face. If anyone is trying to make up their minds about getting a c230, I hope my experience will make your decision easier. This is one car you can definitely feel good about buying and it is truly one of the best values out there.
Consider the resale value of the C230 over an RSX in 4 years or more, and then add in the standard safety features (Mercedes doesn't believe that important safety features should be optional) that no one can match or even offers in this class and price range, and the answer is clear.
The Benz safety features are also very welcome given all those 5000+ pound Chevy Suburbans out on the road. At least you have a fighting chance in the Benz.
I think we all know that MB products are inherently well engineered cars that are solid and have tons of standard safety features.
As regards to no car it perfect, if you drive a manual car you are shifting ALL THE TIME. The back seat room in not in your face all the time. Its important to some and not too others. For other reasons I would not buy the RSX. But you should try the 5 or 6 speed manual RSX (both are wonderful) just to see how its supposed to be done. You would think the MB engineers should try it too but Im sure they won't.
I also go through stop-n-go traffic, and I find that the constant shifting helps alleviate the boredom. But with constant shifting, it is important that the stick be buttery smooth.
I had called and made appointments with both dealers. The Subaru lot seemed empty, but it took us an hour to get a car. The Mercedes lot was busy, "my" salesman had customers, so he just gave me the keys; he had already taken a copy of my licence the precious week.
We fitted in both vehicles but, whereas I could feel my hair touching the top of the WRX, there was room to spare in the C230. After she shut the door to the C230, my girlfriend said, "Did you hear that? Let me do it again!" and opened and closed the door again for the sake of the comfortable thud.
The WRX has better figures to 60. It is also probably slightly quicker in real world when really pushed, but it sounds as if it is being pushed. I didn't feel as secure with the WRX, although it may have handled severe corners better there was something about my height above the road and /or the all-wheel drive that sapped my confidence. The steering felt less stable. The back seat feels cheap.
I'm going to buy the c230. I've read that the price is not very flexible, that maybe one can get a CD-changer thrown in. $995 certainly seems very steep, as does $640 for metallic paint. According to Edmund's, metallic paint cost the dealer nothing. HAs anyone tried to negotiate this?
Two further questions.
The optional Bose sound system. My ears are not the best, but I do like the idea of modifying the sound to "subtract the ambient noise" - I'm a geek. How well does it work on the road? I don't need pounding base. Rather, I want to be able to hear quieter bits over the road noise, etc.
Secondly, the accessories list includes a sun roof-wind deflector. This would seem redundant since the sun-roof incorporates one. The incorporated one is far from perfect, however. Has anyone tried this extra deflector? Does it give less noise? How much above the roof does it protrude - I intend to carry kayaks on a roof-rack (don't shoot me). I phoned Mercedes and was told the extra deflector was largely cosmetic. That I find hard to believe - the car looks better without one.
Avnae
PS. I also tried the automatic C230 - much to my girlfriend's disgust. I didn't have time to get used to it, but it seemed unreliable; it didn't seem to change when I commanded it. I may just have been impatient. It also seemed to need to work the engine mush harder than I did in the manual when pushing the car hard.
Tom
Jay
KBB indicates they just don't have the data on what dealer margin is on this particular option, but it is safe to assume 7-10% markup, as in the case of all of the other factory options.
Dealers didn't suddenly get another $600 to play with in margins for this car...always do a sniff test on these online $ listings...if it doesn't feel right, it probably isn't.
Spoke to my dealer yesterday. He indicated that MB was waiting on the replacement for the seat belt part for cars "stranded" at the port in Baltimore. My poor little C230 is out there waiting to come to it's new home too. Anyway, he is following up and will advise me today of the status. I am most anxious to get it as I have been without my Toyota MR2 Spyder since I sold it 10 days ago. Was supposed to have the C230 already. Just patiently waiting.....NOT.
Dennis in Lexington
In addition to our Mercedes-Benz Owners Club, you'll now find direct links to the Edmunds' New Vehicle information on the 2002 Mercedes C230, as well as links to some related reviews and articles. Keep your eyes open for other resources to be linked to that area. Hope this is helpful. ;-)
Revka
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Hatchbacks / Station Wagons / Women's Auto Center Boards
If it weren't safety-related, they would put them out there and fix it on the fly, but this is a no-no in a case like this. [These are the little charges that explode to instantly take the slack out of the belt if a collision over a certain speed is detected.]
In addition, if the matter is of an off-topic nature, we encourage you take the subject to a more appropriate forum... or to continue your discussion via email. While we realize it's normal to go off-topic in the course of these discussions, off-topic comments that veer towards disruption of a topic-oriented discussion are not allowed and will be subject to deletion.
For further clarification on this matter, please refer to the Member Conduct section of our Town Hall Membership Agreement. Thanks for your participation.
Revka
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Hatchbacks / Station Wagons / Women's Auto Center Boards
Some dealers swore that the cars were only being sold at invoice, and were insulted at being asked about discounts. Others were quite willing to deal.
Thanks for deleting chip9903 original post and my response. I achieved my mission.
I'm usually just an avid bystander.
On another topic:
Has anyone made the choice of purchasing a 2002 BMW 325 over the C-Coupe?
Revka
Host
Hatchbacks / Station Wagons / Women's Auto Center Boards
So if you are also waiting for the "repair" before the cars are to proceed to dealers, it should be anytime now.
If you order the leather and the sunroof, you wind up with the bose for only about $300 more with the c5 package.
and....dealers will bargain on price.
regards Tom
Most people have the sun-roof option. Does anyone have the additional wind deflector? How effective is it? Has anyone compared cars with sunroofs, with and without this accessory? How far above the roof does it protrude?
Avnae
My current car is a roadster that I am abusing by using it primarily as a commuter car - with the coming of the crappy season in these parts, I'm thinking about getting something more practical, yet still somewhat fun. While I intend to look at several options, the C230 seems to fit the bill best, though the price tag is a little high.
I'm trying to find a 6-speed to test drive in my area, but it's proving to be a formidable task. I'll have lots of comments once I get the chance to drive it. Until then, is there a good owners forum that I can check out?
I read a previous discussion thread with the same question and the response was "get snow tires", but I'd like to hear from someone who has driven in it (2nd or 3rd hand is good). For 5-10 days of snow a year, I'm not looking for high performance in the snow, just the ability to get around and up and down some hills. I don't want to be walking (stuck) and I'd prefer not going through the snow tire changes.
As for pricing I am leasing, my sister works for MB in a regional finance office so my lease payments for 48 months (and 15,000 miles/year) are 365.89.
I hope the wait was worth it, the comments about the sunroof (bunching material, squeaks, etc) have me a bit scared however, I am almost giddy with excitement.
When i test drove with them they gave me such attitude that I was a young asian kid and just mess around, they dont seem to pay much attention to me. Smythe didnt do enough for the homework and I say I wanted to order the C7 wheel package they insisted there is no such option from MB for $750 and they pretend to know a lot and refused to do some search for me. Then they are very pushy and wanted my $1000 for a deposit for the C230K. Then I went over to Fremont that old guy called Louis gave me a test drove and introduced the car in details. I feel I got respected. He didnt push me for a deal either.
also around Fremont its better for test drive because of less traffic, around Smythe is very hard to test out the full power of the car IMHO.
since my family is in oregon so i end up buying the car up there to save 8% sales tax call me cheap or what
BMW handling, silk smooth transmission and shifter, well balanced car
but if u live in bay area you throw two stones out of the freeway one will probably hit a 3 series. Bimmers are as common as Honda Civic here.
325i is about $1500-2000 more expensive than the C230 similarily equipped
C230:
A slightly better acceleration due to its low end torque 200tq at 2500rpm and the 6 speed, but by not much. Its shifter is something to get used to. Panorama Roof is the selling point. Similar to a 996 Targa
Ride is more comfortable and quiter than the Bimmer. Easily modified to become 230hp 240tq hot hatch, will eat 330i for lunch
Its still not very common on the road, it got a lot looks on the road.
hatchback is somewhat acquired taste.
I didnt talk to Doug but I talked to two other salesperson there and they are simply salesmonkeys, well I didnt meet all the salesman there so I cant conclude the whole Smythe is bad.
When I asked them how much is the C7 package they said there is no C7
When I asked them when is MB going to put leather on the car they first said MB hasnt decided to put leather on the car at all and then I insisted they had so they went on and said you can order immediately but I heard they wont have leather until like the end of the year. I mean if u didnt know something then ask your manager dont gave me such an attitude. I hate it when people push me to commit on buying a car right after test drive i mean buying a car is not buying grocery esp it's a 30K car
http://detnews.com/autosweekly/0110/17/drove/drove.htm