Well, your profile says that your F250 is ordered, not purchased. I was just wondering if you'd considered going with the V10 instead of the V8 in that F250. It costs ~$200 more and from the reports here has been getting about the same mileage. I imagine that considering its rarity the 5.4l V8 may hurt
Well, your profile says that your F250 is ordered, not purchased. I was just wondering if you'd considered going with the V10 instead of the V8 in that F250. It costs ~$200 more and from the reports here has been getting about the same mileage. I imagine that considering its rarity the 5.4l V8 may hurt your resale value.
Actually I'd rather go with the PSD. But can't shell out the extra cash. The V10 scares me alittle, I'm familiar with V8's. I did notice that I seem to be the only one getting the V8. But at the dealership were I bought it (ordered it) Its seems most of the SD's on the lot are 5.4 with 3.73 rear. I did/do want the LSD in 3.73 w/5.4 but was told can't be done. So I guess I'll have to go after market. I really don't need the V10, because I'll be towing and/or hauling basicly nothing. I'm thinking that going dual catback exhaust w/ K&N filter may give me alittle more in the mpg area. My Ram gets basicly 20 mpg highway.
I doubt you'll see that with the Ford. Reports seem to agree that the 5.4 is quite underpowered for these heavy trucks, possibly negatively affecting mileage. The V10 is actually just the 5.4l V8 with two additional inner cylinders; that's why Ford's Triton line are called modular engines. I'm going with the V10 and a Gale Banks header/cat-back system that I'm hoping will get me close to 14mpg on the highway.
I'd like the 3.73s as well. I've got 4.10s right now though, and 4.10s with a 5 speed work out the same as 4.30s with the auto so I'll probably just live with them. Its a lot cheaper to change ratios than to add the L/S in later, though, so you've probably got the right idea there.
As far as not needing the V10 I'd agree with you -- but is it going to be easy to sell the 5.4 in a few years when 90%+ of the trucks have the PSD or the V10? Just a thought.
I understand what your saying about the resale value, other people have mentioned that also but I "plan on" keeping this truck for a long while. I also agree the the 5.4 felt alittle under powered (especially compared to my Ram) but I'm, not a racer anyway so..... I just can't wait until the aftermarket catches up so I can add on the toys!! LOL!!
I just picked up the September issue of Motortrend. There is an article that compares the Dodge and Ford V-10. Both had auto transmissions. They are both good engines, but the Ford won. When empty, acceleration was pretty much a dead heat. Towing a 4,000 pound boat, the Ford beat the Dodge handily despite having 30 lb-ft less torque and 25 less hp. The Ford was also considered smoother. The Dodge was considered to be a little more responsive within gears, but the Ford had more upper end within each gear.
It's just one test, but it was interesting. Someone on this site who, I believe, said he works for Ford indicated that the Ford V-10 was underpowered. Based on this test, it appears that the Ford V-10 actually has a performance advantage when compared to the Dodge V-10. If future tests have the same results, the initial speculation might be true about the Ford V-10 being more efficient, a little smoother and having better mpg. Better performance than the beefier Dodge V-10 is a nice bonus.
Of course, I bet that most serious Dodge owners go for the Cummins engine. With the poor mileage of the Dodge V10 combined with the performance and economy of the diesel, I bet they sell a higher percentage of diesels than Ford will.
Unfortunately, no vehicle over 8500 GVWR has a fuel economy rating - it's not just Dodge. The EPA does not require the same emissions testing for vehicles over that GVWR, thus there's no mpg number from the test to use.
As for getting the 488 over the oil burner, the guys in my Ram club who have the tenpack buy it for driveability mostly, others don't have a diesel source nearby and/or one that is reasonably priced. If you've never driven a diesel, you have to get used to having a redline at the gasoline engine's torque peak, shifting very frequently if you have the stick, and some people just don't want to deal with the engine noise.
Me, I roll down the window to listen to my Cummins
cdean, I've been working on too many roofs lately and haven't been online in a while. First, I replaced three water pumps in one truck. Tranny locked up in reverse in another two weeks ago and plates need replacement. I just hope she can be rebuilt! I don't need a new tranny bill. After scratching many mechanic's heads, we finally found the cause of the other 95 with its loss of power. After 65k, compression was slipping in two cylinders while the rings were scorched. These are only the recent headaches with these Chevys. Remember that I own other trucks of all three makes? Well, the two oldest trucks which date back to the early 80's have cost us less than the three 95s. Those old trucks are Ford. I know I'll have to replace all three Chevys before those Fords are retired. That is why I detest Chevy now. Their quality has stooped to Dodge's level and this is coming from an ex-Chevy truck guy. Once again, I need quality, not impressive spec numbers.
Heres my take on the debate fellas. I work for an oil company up here in Canada and have since 1979. Up until two years ago we never had a choice as to the truck we drove. Strictly Chevs. They finally relented and I ordered a Dodge Ram 1500 4x4 with a 360 V-8 This truck was an absolute peice of **** The engine for its size is the most underpowered I have ever driven ( the Chev vortec 350 will run circles around it) At temperatures colder that -22 degrees C the overdrive is locked out (EVEN WITH THE GRILL AND BUMPER COMPLETELY CLOSED IN!!!) The vacumn hose on the transfer case actuator kept falling off and filling up with snow and mud depriving me of four wheel drive often when I needed it the most!! Had all four axle seals replaced. Replaced three out of four plastic wheel well liners The "check engine light" had to be reset on a few occasions. After about a six month experiment the company that I work for put a halt to all New Dodge purchases due to a 20 % failure rate on their Automatic transmissions. I have no experience with Ford pickups as I can't even get close to them without getting sick to my stomach they are so ghastly looking. We have almost the same Dodge Ram as a personal truck and the engine is still a guttless peice of garbage and no overdrive when it gets real cold but we haven't had any other trouble with it. Mind you it never really leaves the pavement. We just ordered a new Ram 2500 Quad Cab 4X4 short box with the Cummins Deisel. Can hardly wait!! Damn they're gorgeous pickups!!!
A pickup driver of the 90s! One who buys a pickup because it looks pretty. At least your engine won't be underpowered with the Cummins.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Obviously a lot of people think the F-150 is good a looking truck. I started out with a lukewarm feeling when I first saw them, but they have grown on me. The 4wd version with the Off-Road package is awesome looking. But it doesn't sound like they will ever grow on you. I'm sure you've plenty of time to look at them......as they are passing you in O/D.....and 4wd..... while you're putting along on snowy roads.....in the cold weather.....in third gear......and 2wd......praying that nothing breaks down too far from the local garage.
Saintjohn, you had me all the way until that last sentence. Why, other than the prettiness, would you buy another Dodge? The truck will fall apart around that Cummins. Get a super-duty from Ford with the Navistar engine.
I got the Dodge disease man and I think it may be terminal. Chrysler pretty much has me right where they want me!! I used to think that I was way too smart for something like this to happen. WRONG. I sure hope you're wrong about the truck falling to peices around the engine. Actually I should see if there is support group for people like me. (Hi.... my name is John and I'm buying my second new Dodge pickup.......).
I'm a Ford fan because of my experience with Ford trucks. If I get one that has serious problems and the problems turn out to be normal on all of the Ford trucks (not just a lemon off the line), I would certainly be looking at Dodge or Chevy for my next truck. These rigs cost too much to buy something that is not reliable or won't perform the job I need it to perform. Loyalty only goes so far. Ford has my business until they start making inferior trucks.
As for the looks, the Dodge appearance is already getting old. Look for them to make some modifications in their MY2000 truck. I don't expect it to be drastic, but you should be able to differentiate it from the current model. A change will be good, even if it's not drastic. Like I've said before, at first, I wasn't too sure about the looks of the F-150. Now they have grown on me, especially the 4wd models. The SD is totally different monster. I've seen a few sitting next to Dodges, and the SD looks bigger and tougher. Just a personal opinion, of course.
General Motors Corp conducted a survey of approx. 60,000 people who purhased 1997 vehicles between 10/96 and 6/97 to see what types of cars and trucks people in certain occupations were buying. It looks like they listed two vehicles per occupation. The Ford, Dodge and Chevy trucks were chosen as one of the top two vehicles in a few of the professions. The Dodge was selected by military and clerical personnel. The Chevy was favored by farmers and the unemployed. The Ford was selected by engineers, executives, emergency personnel (police, fire, other), merchants, retirees, salespeople skilled labor, and students. The Ford F-series topped the list of buyers. Amongst truck buyers, white was the most often selected color. Nothing really relevant about the study, but it did mention all three truck manufacturers, so it fit the topic.
RE: Navistar engines Surely some of you are old enough to remember the "old slow binder". That is the Navistar. It is an International Harvester design that is at least 25 years old. That is not to say that there have been no improvements, but it is still a very dated design. If you buy a Ford PSD, you don't have to worry about the body falling apart around the engine; it will all go at once.
My brother-in-law turned in his ford diesel under lemon law protection but could only trade for a new ford truck. This time he went gas, but now he is trying to turn the new one back in...this time for his money back. He is very soured on ford products.
Brutus Unemployed people drive Chevys because they have plenty of time to work on them. Barbell the body and motor may fall apart but it will take a long time.
I would like for someone who actually knows who as an overall view on the big 3 trucks I have read about the Dodge 1500 club cab being junk &the same with Fords &I have had a lot of bad expierences with Chevy trucks,are they all junk Thanks Wrangler2
Ok Wrangler, I'll give it a try. I have a 84 Chevy C10. Been a great truck, has about 130K miles and on original eng/tran with no problems. Have 96 and 98 Dodge Cummins trucks and have had no problems except for the GoodYear tires that were replaced underwarranty on the 96. Had two Ford PSD's 95 and 96 that did not service me well and they are both gone. Have many friends that drive the Fords and love them with no problems. The new Chevys are fine trucks as are the new Fords and Dodges. Take care of your truck and in most cases it will take care of you.
I have a 94 ram 2500 4x4 pick-up,bought new, and has a 5.9l engine in it. We put on an eightfoot plow (1000lbs), and have not had one problem with this truck at all. And for people who think the 5.9l is under powered, no way! raced a chev 350 from stand still and beat it. Wasn't a blowout but one by a truck length. As far as strength goes of the truck, ( ever tried flooring it in four low, and geting it to go just over 70 km/h, and have no problems afterwards, this ram did it. Rams need to be abused, if you don't your gonna have problems. They don't liked to be babied. Done lots of off roading whith this truck and has yet to flaw.
P.S best plow truck on the market, ford nor chev can do what a ram can!
just drive them hard, and have fun, they'll last a lot longer then you woild think.
How long were the vehicles held and how were they used?
IMO, I doubt you will ever see the F-Series in a list like that because they have such a large presence in the fleet market. Fleets abuse their trucks (necessarily), so that will always drive down the overall resale.
The source of the numbers that I postes is Edmund's. You can find them under either editorial or news. I really can't remember which. But they are Edmund's numbers.
i disagree. do you KNOW that Fords have super high fleet use? I haven't seen numbers anywhere saying what percentage of a company's vehicles went to personal and what percentage went to fleet use. I see a lot of F350 (cuz of the diesel, mainly) used in fleets, but where half and 3/4 tons are used, i see GMs and Fords about the same, with a few Dodge trucks tossed in there. Local REA companies around here use strictly GMC 1 ton and 3/4 ton. a lot of the machine shops, mechanic shops, part distributors i see weekly, all have about equal GMs and Fords, if not more GMs. these are generally half ton and 3/4 ton trucks used for part runs, product deliveries, hauling and towing of equipment and other various run-around-town stuff. i haven't seen there being a significantly larger number of Fords in fleets at all.
I am skeptical of the statistics, though. first of all resale, IMO, is driven by demand more than by quality, but not overlooking quality as an issue. but how are those numbers compiled? same mileage vehicles? same region?
Look at the top 5 on the list, and they are all high demand vehicles that can't be sold fast enough.
All 10 vehicles are also *relatively* low in terms of production. The GMC Sierra and Dodge Ram have higher resale because there's a Ford F-series or Chevy CK on every corner, and are thus easier to find. Same with the Land Cruiser and Suburbans. They don't sell in large numbers, thus it's more difficult to actually find one. Likewise the 4Runner vs the sales-leading Explorer and Grand Cher. Supply and demand at its finest.
You'll have to direct your questions of how the numbers were compiled to Edmund's, they compiled them. No matter how the number may be skewed by other factors, these vehicles still bring the most cash to the table at trade in time. I don't think the people that have these vehicles care about fleet use or other things like that, they just know that their vehicle still has 90% of it's value! I belive that the Chevy S-10 is a fairly mass produced truck. Am I wrong?
Just because there are no Fords on the list doesn't necessarily mean that the numbers are wrong. There have always been few Fords on top resale value lists.
I'm back to raise hell! Too many guys are concerned about resale value. Buy a truck for its real value: Ford. How much will it cost to run a Chevy or a Dodge? I own all three and my expierence is valuable.
Something that bothers me about advertising is the claims that some truck makers use their adds. THEY DON'T MEAN ANYTHING! Do you think that I could care less that Dodge was the first truck maker to offer four doors?? Do you think that I care that Dodge was the first truck maker to offer a V10 in their trucks? NO. Being the first at something does not make you the best at it. I could be the first buy to pick my nose, but I am still picking my nose!! Dodge is trying to sell trucks to the American public by saying they were the 'first' in everything. So what. That means nothing to someone looking for a truck in my opnion.
And Ford has been using the 'we sell more cars in the galaxy" slogan for cars and trucks. I could care less that they sell more, does that make then better or make me want one......NO!!!! They sell more Contours and BMW sells 3 series cars too, but does that mean the a Contour in better than a Beemer???? NO? I could care less that you sell more trucks Ford, that doesn't mean they are any better, it just means that you won't have any trade in value. Ford and Dodge need to come up with other things to tout in their adds. Being the 'first' or selling the 'most' means nothing.
"Honey, come in here, Dodge says they were the first to offer four doors."
"Wow Harold, we better get the Dodge truck then since they were the very, genuine, top of the list, first ones to do that. That alomst made my decision for me!!"
"I agree Gladys, if they were the first to offer four doors then they have to be the best trucks, where's my checkbook....."
Good sales numbers are something I do take into consideration especially when the numbers are good year after year. When a lot of people consistently vote with their wallets for a product that to me is a reasonable sign of good quality and bang for the buck.
But then again I pay about as much attention to advertising as I do to political speeches.
<<It's also smaller than the F-SD... you notice the phrase is "Larger than an F150 or Dodge...">>
The Chevy Silverado extended cab is larger than the F150 and the Dodge RAM. Finish your sentence Stanford. If you think for a minute the F150, Dodge Ram or F250 SD has a better rear bench seat then I suspect you all are suffering from a case of Chevy envy.
I made no such claim. And yes, I was referring to the RAM. We were talking about interesting advertising claims. The implication with that is that the back seat of the Chevy extended cab is the biggest in the industry. That is false. That was my only point. Geez.
Actually, I think they're all fairly pathetic, which is why I drive a crew cab.
Chevy uses things like 'longest lasting trucks on the road' in their adds. Rather than "WE WERE FIRST!! NEATO!!" or Ford's battle cry of "WE SELL TONS OF TRUCKS". I can sell a lot of turd sandwiches, but they are still turd sandwiches..........
p.s. Chevy also uses things like resale value. That would help me buy a truck.
Dodge has their new favorite now for cars and trucks and that is 'most appealing' going off J.D.Power numbers. Most appealing and longest lasting or highest quality do not mean the same thing. That's like saying I have the prettiest wife out there, but she doesn't know the answer to 2+2............
Comments
Actually I'd rather go with the PSD.
But can't shell out the extra cash.
The V10 scares me alittle, I'm familiar with
V8's. I did notice that I seem to be the only
one getting the V8. But at the dealership were I
bought it (ordered it) Its seems most of the
SD's on the lot are 5.4 with 3.73 rear.
I did/do want the LSD in 3.73 w/5.4 but was told
can't be done. So I guess I'll have to go after
market. I really don't need the V10, because
I'll be towing and/or hauling basicly nothing.
I'm thinking that going dual catback exhaust w/
K&N filter may give me alittle more in the mpg
area. My Ram gets basicly 20 mpg highway.
I'd like the 3.73s as well. I've got 4.10s right now though, and 4.10s with a 5 speed work out the same as 4.30s with the auto so I'll probably just live with them. Its a lot cheaper to change ratios than to add the L/S in later, though, so you've probably got the right idea there.
As far as not needing the V10 I'd agree with you -- but is it going to be easy to sell the 5.4 in a few years when 90%+ of the trucks have the PSD or the V10? Just a thought.
value, other people have mentioned that also
but I "plan on" keeping this truck for a long
while. I also agree the the 5.4 felt alittle
under powered (especially compared to my Ram)
but I'm, not a racer anyway so.....
I just can't wait until the aftermarket catches
up so I can add on the toys!! LOL!!
It's just one test, but it was interesting. Someone on this site who, I believe, said he works for Ford indicated that the Ford V-10 was underpowered. Based on this test, it appears that the Ford V-10 actually has a performance advantage when compared to the Dodge V-10. If future tests have the same results, the initial speculation might be true about the Ford V-10 being more efficient, a little smoother and having better mpg. Better performance than the beefier Dodge V-10 is a nice bonus.
Any thoughts on why someone would get the V-10 vs. the Cummins? Other than wanting to stop at every gas station.
Unfortunately, no vehicle over 8500 GVWR has a fuel economy rating - it's not just Dodge. The EPA does not require the same emissions testing for vehicles over that GVWR, thus there's no mpg number from the test to use.
As for getting the 488 over the oil burner, the guys in my Ram club who have the tenpack buy it for driveability mostly, others don't have a diesel source nearby and/or one that is reasonably priced. If you've never driven a diesel, you have to get used to having a redline at the gasoline engine's torque peak, shifting very frequently if you have the stick, and some people just don't want to deal with the engine noise.
Me, I roll down the window to listen to my Cummins
I've been working on too many roofs lately and haven't been online in a while.
First, I replaced three water pumps in one truck. Tranny locked up in reverse in another two weeks ago and plates need replacement. I just hope she can be rebuilt! I don't need a new tranny bill. After scratching many mechanic's heads, we finally found the cause of the other 95 with its loss of power. After 65k, compression was slipping in two cylinders while the rings were scorched.
These are only the recent headaches with these Chevys. Remember that I own other trucks of all three makes? Well, the two oldest trucks which date back to the early 80's have cost us less than the three 95s. Those old trucks are Ford. I know I'll have to replace all three Chevys before those Fords are retired.
That is why I detest Chevy now. Their quality has stooped to Dodge's level and this is coming from an ex-Chevy truck guy. Once again, I need quality, not impressive spec numbers.
After about a six month experiment the company that I work for put a halt to all New Dodge purchases due to a 20 % failure rate on their Automatic transmissions.
I have no experience with Ford pickups as I can't even get close to them without getting sick to my stomach they are so ghastly looking.
We have almost the same Dodge Ram as a personal truck and the engine is still a guttless peice of garbage and no overdrive when it gets real cold but we haven't had any other trouble with it.
Mind you it never really leaves the pavement. We just ordered a new Ram 2500 Quad Cab 4X4 short box with the Cummins Deisel. Can hardly wait!!
Damn they're gorgeous pickups!!!
SaintJohn
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Obviously a lot of people think the F-150 is good a looking truck. I started out with a lukewarm feeling when I first saw them, but they have grown on me. The 4wd version with the Off-Road package is awesome looking. But it doesn't sound like they will ever grow on you. I'm sure you've plenty of time to look at them......as they are passing you in O/D.....and 4wd..... while you're putting along on snowy roads.....in the cold weather.....in third gear......and 2wd......praying that nothing breaks down too far from the local garage.
Right on all counts Brutus!!!!!!
I got the Dodge disease man and I think it may be terminal. Chrysler pretty much has me right where they want me!! I used to think that I was way too smart for something like this to happen. WRONG.
I sure hope you're wrong about the truck falling to peices around the engine. Actually I should see if there is support group for people like me. (Hi.... my name is John and I'm buying my second new Dodge pickup.......).
As for the looks, the Dodge appearance is already getting old. Look for them to make some modifications in their MY2000 truck. I don't expect it to be drastic, but you should be able to differentiate it from the current model. A change will be good, even if it's not drastic. Like I've said before, at first, I wasn't too sure about the looks of the F-150. Now they have grown on me, especially the 4wd models. The SD is totally different monster. I've seen a few sitting next to Dodges, and the SD looks bigger and tougher. Just a personal opinion, of course.
Surely some of you are old enough to remember the "old slow binder". That is the Navistar. It is an International Harvester design that is at least 25 years old. That is not to say that there have been no improvements, but it is still a very dated design. If you buy a Ford PSD, you don't have to worry about the body falling apart around the engine; it will all go at once.
Thanks Wrangler2
Good Luck,
David
Rams need to be abused, if you don't your gonna have problems. They don't liked to be babied. Done lots of off roading whith this truck and has yet to flaw.
P.S best plow truck on the market, ford nor chev can do what a ram can!
just drive them hard, and have fun, they'll last a lot longer then you woild think.
IMO, I doubt you will ever see the F-Series in a list like that because they have such a large presence in the fleet market. Fleets abuse their trucks (necessarily), so that will always drive down the overall resale.
Malibu1
i disagree. do you KNOW that Fords have super high fleet use? I haven't seen numbers anywhere saying what percentage of a company's vehicles went to personal and what percentage went to fleet use. I see a lot of F350 (cuz of the diesel, mainly) used in fleets, but where half and 3/4 tons are used, i see GMs and Fords about the same, with a few Dodge trucks tossed in there. Local REA companies around here use strictly GMC 1 ton and 3/4 ton. a lot of the machine shops, mechanic shops, part distributors i see weekly, all have about equal GMs and Fords, if not more GMs. these are generally half ton and 3/4 ton trucks used for part runs, product deliveries, hauling and towing of equipment and other various run-around-town stuff. i haven't seen there being a significantly larger number of Fords in fleets at all.
I am skeptical of the statistics, though. first of all resale, IMO, is driven by demand more than by quality, but not overlooking quality as an issue. but how are those numbers compiled? same mileage vehicles? same region?
Look at the top 5 on the list, and they are all high demand vehicles that can't be sold fast enough.
Malibu1
Malibu1
And Ford has been using the 'we sell more cars in the galaxy" slogan for cars and trucks. I could care less that they sell more, does that make then better or make me want one......NO!!!! They sell more Contours and BMW sells 3 series cars too, but does that mean the a Contour in better than a Beemer???? NO? I could care less that you sell more trucks Ford, that doesn't mean they are any better, it just means that you won't have any trade in value. Ford and Dodge need to come up with other things to tout in their adds. Being the 'first' or selling the 'most' means nothing.
Malibu1
"Wow Harold, we better get the Dodge truck then since they were the very, genuine, top of the list, first ones to do that. That alomst made my decision for me!!"
"I agree Gladys, if they were the first to offer four doors then they have to be the best trucks, where's my checkbook....."
But then again I pay about as much attention to advertising as I do to political speeches.
The Chevy Silverado extended cab is larger than the F150 and the Dodge RAM. Finish your sentence Stanford. If you think for a minute the F150, Dodge Ram or F250 SD has a better rear bench seat then I suspect you all are suffering from a case of Chevy envy.
Actually, I think they're all fairly pathetic, which is why I drive a crew cab.
p.s. Chevy also uses things like resale value. That would help me buy a truck.
Malibu1