Dodge,Ford,Chevy------who wins?

dodgeram

Forgot about gas, lets talk diesel. I just got to see the new power wagon from dodge, front only, and some numbers. I can't beleive what they did. THe new power wagon has a 7.2litre inline 6. Power my freinds, a whopping 250hp, and 780LBS, and no this is not a cummins. Dodge I guess got the contract away from chevy, so sad, but the new motor is from CATIPILLAR!, I guess the chev trucks couldn't handle all that power, so they went to a truck that can, (DODGE). IT debuts jan 3, detroit autoshow, check the site www.car-truck.com They will have all the pictures and info probably on that day or few days later.

KCRam

dodgeram,

Calm down buddy - it is a show truck, after all. The Cummins engine isn't going anywhere for at least 3 years. Besides, the Cat 3126 is governed at a very low 2400rpm, while the new 24 valve Cummins was raised to 3200 to improve driveability. I doubt Dodge would go backwards for that, unless Cat is willing to raise the rpm.

dodgeram

The truck might a show truck, but the engine I bet will show up in the next generation heavyduty rams. how do you know what the CAT is governed at, its all new design.

KCRam

The Cat 3126 has been out for a while - it's on the Cat website - www.caterpillar.com - then click on (in this order)
Products
Engines/Electric Power Generation
On-highway Truck
3126 (in the grey grid)

You will see in the engine chart the 250/800 rating engine is governed at 2400 - this is what is used in the Power Wagon

dennis4

Sounds like Dodge must have done ALOT of redesigning to be able to handle that much torque. Do you think that they will actually build a standard pickup with that much torque? One that won't have numerous problems?

dodgeram

"YES!!!" definately, of course

dave40

Save your pennies Federal GOV. plans hefty new tax on light duty Diesels

dodgeram

780LBS of torque, you call that light duty!

sd99

Wow, just spent hours reading thru this post. You guys (and girls) act like your from different planets fighting a war of whose trucks are better.Some of the comments border from plain stupid to uninformed. Everyone who drives a truck should be damm glad we have the big three. Can you imagine the crap we would be driving if only one company was making trucks? All of the trucks talked about have their good and bad points, but to eliminate a certain model simply because you don't like the commercials is very narrow minded, and in the end you are only cheating yourself out of a potential great truck for your needs. I could never buy a truck without driving and checking out all three, which is what I did, and my new F250 SD 4X4 should be in next week. For me, at this time, this is the best truck for its intended purpose. Some of you die hard Chevy, Dodge and Ford people need to get a life.

trex99

Hey sd99...you oughta listen to yourself...if YOU were properly informed you wouldnt be buyin a stupid duty power joke....those have been the most quickly produced problem plagued trucks that ford has built yet....and to dodgeram dude.....the power wagon concept truck is just that....a concept...there wont be any changes in dodge until at least 2002 and the cummins will just get better....from what I heard at dodge truck school the trannys will be built up to handle the true power and torque of the cummins opened up a little more....and for those of you waiting...the 6 speed manual will be available for ordering in the next couple of months from who else? Dodge....so the debate rages on...and at the dealership daily the question is and always seems to be....Dodge or ford? Nobody round here is impressed by the stale designs of the new silverado.....and I have to wholeheartedly agree with the gentle man above who said the interior design of the chevys is, and has been,,, well..... lame to say the least......I dont know if its the union or what but, please go back to the drawing board!!!!!

Brutus

Cummins (Dodge), Navistar (Ford), and Isuzu (soon to be in the Chevy) all make diesel engines that produce alot more torque than anything that is in the pickup trucks. The key is matching it with a tranny and other drivetrain components that can handle the torque and then finding a way to make the combo fit in a full size pickup truck while still providing a comfortable ride. It's not just a matter of dropping in a new engine.

cdean

well said, Brutus. We seem to have a lot of Tim the Toolmans around here. MOre power, more power!!!! then when the truck pulls in half...

mjc5

You guys are nuts! I must be too for reading all of this stuff! I'm sure I'll be happy with my new '99 SD250 due in this week, no matter what all the nuts say. The choice of what truck to purchse is a very individual thing. Besides, I got over a grand off due to a Ford/Citibank card. Can't argue with that!

dave40

Anybody know who won more NASCAR TRUCK races this past year CHEVY DODGE or FORD ?

mharde2

Mjc5, There are a couple of immature people on this post, just ignore them. You are right on. Anyone who buys a particular vehicle every time without even looking at the competition is truly missing the boat.

dodgeram

Well see next week if dodge is going to bring CAT to there lineup. What I think dodge is going to do is have to diesel companies, both cummins, and CAT. You will find the cummins in the light to medium duty trucks, like 2500, 3500 models, and then you will find the CAT in the new heavyduty RAMS, which will probably be 3500, and up. Just a theory, but I Know dodge better then anyone, and I'll bet thats what they will do, can't wait! Even if I have to waita few years it will be worth it. Ive already got two new rams now, and there really fun to drive.

davek3

WEll guys i have a 85 chevy k-20 4 wheel drive-- its pushin 500,000 miles engine has been changed
but all else execpt for torque converter is original..air- cruise all still works.. has its original exhaust system on it except for mufflers oh it has its rattles..kinda rusty (live in pa salt bucket of the world) but the darn thing gets me any where i wanna go! even when i tow my 55 chevy with it it still runs great..Oh i had to get a new carb for it .. the old one was just plain wore out!!I just ordered a silverado 2500 last nite.. if like its ancestors i sure will be pleased!! oh on resale.. soon as people here at work found out i was geting a new truck they are beating down my door for my old one!!! just a bit of info....

cdean

thats a lot of miles davek3. at work we have an ext. cab 1/2 ton chevy ('92). it has a 350 and manual trans. it has over 320,000 miles on everything original except for the clutch and the driveline universals and brakes of course. been used for lots of hauling trips around TX, not too much pulling. paint still good as new and the 350 with a 3.02 rearend still gives 18-19 mpg and doesn't use a drop of oil. i just hope i get the same out of my 350!

dave40

Somebody told me Dodge is designing a new engine that runs on Human Waste!
It is called a Dump Truck

KCRam

dave40,

Relax bro - this site is monitored, remember?

dave40

Who makes the best Dump Truck?

quadrunner500

I have read most all your comments. I don't think you can make a bad choice. Certain elements of each I like best. On the Dodge Ram 24V Cummins, I'm very compelled. It's got my favorite leather power 40/20/40 split bench. In the camel/tan with the rosewood applique it is stunning luxury. It is so spacious. I'd also gladly spring for the Infinity sound system with the controls on the steering wheel. On the Superduty Powerstroke or V10, awesome tough guy bully. I love it. I tried in so many ways to find economic justification for their excess. But my payload and trailer tow needs don't justify. In choosing the Silverado, I get interior materials that are less appealing. In my LS reg cab, leather is not even an option. Still, it offers enough advancements in some important areas like the electrics, whether you are talking about individual ignition coils above each cylinder, or the bussed wiring harness that reduces the amount of wiring. A friend of mine close to automotive manufacturing told me when the factory makes a mistake in a wiring harness, it is cheaper to scrap the entire car rather than find the fault. Often times dealers screw up the electrics in ways you don't see right away, when they change out radios, install trailer wiring, lighting accessories etc. But I wish that when I climbed up into the Ram or Super Duty, started it up and drove off, that it had the plush ride of the little wussie from GM or bowtie with the 5.3 gasoline engine. Standing next to one, you can barely hear if its running. Inside, it's just so quiet, more like a Toyota. I wish it had better interior materials, and a better sound system. And I wish it had the imposing looks of the Super Duty or Ram, but I love the way the Silverado/Sierra drives. It drives like a luxury car with sporting pretensions. The look is grown up, balanced. It's functional if it has enough of what you need. For some of you, too much is not enough. You might wonder why I've omitted the F150/250. I just can't stand its appearance. I know that sounds shallow, but it gets under my skin looking at it almost as much as the Expedition. Someone here made a point about Ford that summed things up for me. It was about the gauges being no better than idiot lights because there was no scale, you went from "normal" to redline. Someone else fired back "well if Ford doesn't put numbers, you don't need to know." And when I look at those gauges, that's exactly the irritating message I get too. But I guess it's progress over not having the gauges at all. In general, I think it's fair to say that the Ford at least matches GM in refinement and reliability, but GM's execution of the simplistic pushrod has managed for now to surpass the superior in theory overhead cam Triton. I think Superduty almost matches the great style of the Ram while bettering it in the execution. I love the inline 6 Cummins 24V engine, and the range from the 35 gallon fuel tank. It has almost 50% more main bearing surface area than the Powerstroke. And no glow plugs or catalytic converter required. It has the Bosch variable fuel pump, and direct injection like the powerstroke. Still, these items, along with turbochargers, electronically controlled rotary injection pumps, and the injectors themselves are too expensive for me to justify. And finally, at the stations where I would most often, most likely be needing to re-fuel, the average price of diesel is 23% more than regular unleaded. So the 20 mpg of the diesel becomes equivalent to 15 in the gas truck. As for the 350,000 mile design life of the Cummins, I want to hear from the original owner who actually has put that many miles on it. Because when I honestly appraised my own habits, I realized I purchase and maintain a vehicle like I want it to be the last I'll ever need. I do synthetic oil changes every 2500 miles, use factory certified mechanics at the dealer to do the work, keep records etc. Still, I end up tiring, or getting bored long before it wears out, moving on to the next. This Silverado I'm going to keep for about five years, then sell with about 150,000 miles. Because driving as much as I do, depreciation is the biggest expense.

stanford

Well said. When you get right down to it, the best truck is the one that fits your needs and wants.

dodgeram

Four wheeler magazine just finised a huge comarison test between several 4x4's including suvs, and the dodge 24v cummins diesel 4x4, ford superduty 4x4 v10, and 99' chev silverado 4x4. I was really shocked at the results of the test. They did brutal testing of these vehicles, also noise levels, ride, comfort, performance, milage, etc, etc. The new chev truck did horrible in the this test, they said the transmission would always be hunting for gears, and few other things but I can't remember what they were. The major suprise came from the dodge, they said it probably would of one the test, but noise levels(diesel) kept it from winning, also the four wheel drive shaft broke when they tried to push it up a very very steep hill. It only has the heaviest engine in any pickup truck, so naturally there gonna have problems getting it up that steep of a hill, but beore that they said it ate up there test course, and performed very well on the freeway,and were amazed on the power of the cummmins and how quiet it was after getting to what speed they wanted to get at. Also something else that suprised me was the acceleration times, the new 5.3 chey only beet the ram diesel buy one second inthe quartermile, and in the o-60 times. SO that ram diesel got to be fast. The ram didn't finish first but it did beat beat out the chev buy a long shot, and the ford buy a closer margin. The overall winner was the new grand cheroke. The new improvements they made really payed off in this test. Espeacilly the new powertrain combination 4.7litre v8 matched to the new 5 speed tranny. That same combination will be found on the dakota quad cab, which has actual 4 doors on hinges. But is the same length as the club cab, but with a litter shorter bed. looks really good, check it out at www.car-truck.com, chrysler edition.

quadrunner500

I'm not really surprised that the Grand Cherokee would take all the honors in a serious off road test. The only bad thing I have heard about the 4.7 is that it is slightly noisy, and likes fuel, not really that surprising considering the performance. Another good engine would be the 4.7L 32 valve Lexus V8 that Toyota will be sticking into the Tundra, and building it in Indiana. As for the 24V Cummins, I saw a test where it had a 10.1 second zero to sixty time for the regular cab 2wd version with 5 speed manual. That's about 1.5-2.0 seconds faster than the previous one. As for the Dakota, it's bed dimension between the wheel-wells doesn't let me put my ATV in there unless I drive on top of them. For me, getting the Silverado has to be a practical consideration. I'm fairly sure that my old S10 Blazer with its short wheelbase and compact dimensions is still better in true off-road, on-the-trail situations than most of the full size trucks. But towing my ATV in that enclosed trailer forces me to be a part-time trailer mechanic, always having to repair the lights, grease or replace wheel bearings, fix trailer flats etc. I want to be able to just put it into the bed of my truck, load the dog and go! I don't really have an expectation that I'm going to try and climb steep, rocky trails with it, but want it to be peppy yet economical, and have basic good fundamentals. The Silverado has that part covered with a quiet ride, precise steering, and excellent brakes. But its armor is not without some chinks.

markbuck

I concur with quadrunner500 on towing - don't know how many times my buddie's trailers have failed on trips to races hauling our dirt bikes. Plus the safety of having 3 $6,000 dirt bikes in the bed of a pickup vs on a little $1,000 trailer. I, too, went with the silverado.
In a couple of years, I will probably buy one of those Grand Cherokees though.
As far as off roading, a quad or dirtbike will outperform a pickup any old day. In fact, most years, the mostly stock bikes post faster times in off road races than the $200,000 custom built race trucks. I own pickup trucks to get me to the places I rec-create with my other toys - dirt bikes, mtn bikes, skis, snowmobiles,....

dodgeram

Quadrunner500,
What chinks are you talking about?

trex99

and what about the never ending up and down shifting of the tranny in the silverado????

quadrunner500

To dodgeram:
Complaints about exterior fit and finish, mostly on Sierras. Complaints about interior rattles, mostly on consoles, random complaints about thumps coming from the driveline tunnel, and complaints about cheap interior materials. It should be noted, not everyone is reporting reporting these problems. I saw some magazine tests where Silverado/Sierra received high praise for its interior design.

To: trex99
I read the article about transmission gear "hunting." They didn't get specific, other than the situation occurred when driving off-road in sandy climbs. There was no mention whether they tried using the tow/haul switch. My question would be why the testers didn't just move the automatic transmission shift lever into 1st or 2nd gear for those sections of trail. It seems so obvious. They also stated the locking differential was not as effective as some others. It should be noted, but not overstated that Silverado has won several of these recent magazine shootouts also, gathering praise for acceleration, fuel mileage, comfort, sport, and decent off road abilities.

trex99

Did this topic die??? I aint seen nuttin here forever now....so....who won?? hehe

dave40

The most powerful V-8 in a pickup anywhere !

trex99

yeah right try again,,,BAHAHAHA!!!!

dodgeram

But who still has the rights to the most powerful truck,and biggest pickup on the planet, Not ford, not CHEVY, NOT TO MENTION THE BEST LOOKING,---

-CAN YOU SAY RAM!-

stanford

Chill, guys. A little maturity wouldn't be out of place here...

dave40

Thats the name of the topic
Have some fun !
Drive a Chevy !

mharde2

The 99 Chevy looks real nice, but I couldn't help but notice the front end looks like a Ford and the rear end looks like a Dodge. Any one else notice that? I the tail lights are identical to the Ram...

mharde2

The 99 Chevy looks real nice, but I couldn't help but notice the front end looks like a Ford and the rear end looks like a Dodge. Any one else notice that? I sware the tail lights are identical to the Ram...

mharde2

RATZ!!

dave40

Chevys taillights are way bigger than Dodges plus Chevys have amber turn signals built in. Dodge dosen't have this feature yet maybe in 2004 when they finally catch up .

cdean

Silverado resembles the Dodge from the back, IMHO, because of the very square edges. I don't see any Ford resemblence, though. from the side, the Silverado looks like a Dodge at first glance because of the first thing i notice is the huge back window (on ext. cabs), and in the past, only Dodge has had that large of a rear quarter window.

markbuck

Give me a dodge viper v-10 in a F350 SD Crew Cab with the antilock braking control system from the Chevy. Probably rather have the cosmetics of a Silverado, and the 6speed tranny from the camaro.

xl_1228

What's so special about the GM 6.0 liter Vortec? It isn't near the Ford of Dodge V-10s in torque output. The Ford 5.4 liter outran the Chevy 5.3 in a Popular Science test. Ford wins hands down, not just because of their looks and power, but because they ARE the best built trucks on the road, and you can't deny that!

dodgeram

when chevy brings there 502 next year, look for dodge to bring out there new 5.5l which I hear will have more power then the magnum v-10, and the 502 chevy big block. There is also a rumor that dodge might put there new crate motor hopefully the 528hemi, with 610hp,650torque. That 502 is chevys strongest crate motror, compare that to the dodge hemi, and we'll there no comparison, hemi wins!

dave40

Never see any Dodges win any truck races its alaways Ford and Chevy. Why are dodges so slow ?

stanford

Who cares? They can all pull a load and perform other 'truck-like' tasks. If I want to win races, I'll drive our 3000GT VR4. If I want to pull a 6-horse, I'll take the F350. BTW, Dave40: HP still has nothing to do with acceleration, you want the torque numbers.

tnt2

I've owned a Chevy truck all my driving life (18yrs). Had everything from '49 to '96. Gas & diesel. Turbos and superchargers. Bought a new '99 F350 CC PS DRW 4X4 and traded in my last Chevy. Nothing I've owned in the past can compare. Ford Wins for the Biggest Most Powerful Truck!

xl_1228

Why would anybody want the 502? I mean, it must be a gas hog, being a motor that large. I'd take a Powerstroke or a Cummins anyways. I also noticed something, it's really rare to see a 1 ton Chevy driving around. Look at what tows all of these fifth wheels, they seem to be about 70% Fords...(at least around here)

tnt2

I agree with you there. That's the main reason I traded my 96 3500 for the F350, pulling power. I just wonder how big these gas motors are going to get. I read of people getting 12/14 mpg with v-10's driving around town, I don't believe it. At least not on a daily basis. My 5.4 expedition gets about 12.5-13 every grocery shopping, kid hauling day. I can't believe that a v-10 in a truck that weighs 1500+ #'s can get as good or better mpg. Might be driving habits, but those are my wife's numbers. I've yet to hear about anyones worst mpg on v-10's. My worst on my powerstroke has been 10.5, empty, but avg. 15,.

stanford

tnt2: The V10 mpg numbers are accurate, especially for 2WD trucks with 3.73 rear ends. I'm getting right at 10mpg in town with a 4X4 DRW CC with the 4.30 gears. I'm also terrible about darting around in traffic (a 60 mile/day commute in city traffic will do that to you). My lowest was towing 7000# on highways (Lafyette, LA to Dallas, TX) and I still got a around 9-9.5 at 70mph. Not bad for a gas engine...

tnt2

Those are good honest numbers. Thanks. Forgot to mention that those numbers were supposedly for trucks like yours(and mine,except powerstroke). My worst came last couple of weeks, 95% 4wd, single digit temps, all city driving, and a lot of idle time. I got 14-15mpg highway pulling 10,000# travel trailer. Love the truck.