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Comments
Malibu1
I'm curious what the numbers are.
Thanks
shoes that look like the brand names. This isn't always true, but when comparing a dodge to chev, its definite! So when chev brings foure doors to its trucks, just remember that it wouldn't have happened if it weren't for dodge. Alot things in trucks today wouldn't have happened if it weren't for dodge, "four doors", "Wicked styling"," car like comforts, etc, etc, etc! , and thats what dodge is trying to say to the public, not to buy there product because it was the first feature out, but it was the first company to make things happen.
Chevy's ads are the same as Ford and Dodge. The marketing departments job is to make their product attractive to a target market. They'll use whatever method they can without violating the Fairness in Advertising laws. You don't think Chevy is trying to sell trucks to people who think Bob Seger is cool? And what about that commercial where they show that huge log/pole being dropped into the bed of a Chevy from about 25 feet up? Notice they never show it land? Heck, that would likely destroy any truck. And pulling a barn? If you're going to pull a barn, you're not likely to do it with a 1/2 ton truck. It's all hype. It's just advertising. Chevy's no more "mightier than thou" when it comes to advertising than any other auto manufacturer.
Chevy won Motortrend Truck of the Year, but remember that the only trucks that count are ones that were totally redesigned this year. The Dodge Ram and the F-150 were not considered because this is not the first year of their major overhaul. The F-150 won it in 1997. I suspect the Dodge Ram won it in their first year of the redesign also.
#194 was me not malibu1. I do own an evil Ranger.
malibu1,
If Chevy ever retakes the sales lead from Ford in either compact or full size trucks, it would be touted in their ads in a hot minute. I'd imagine any ad exec who wouldn't use the claim would be quickly out of a job.
Dodgeram, being the first at something DOES NOt mean that they are the best at it. Dodge has you right where they want you. You are the type of person that will run right out an buy the truck that 'was the first to offer a 10 cylinder engine'. Innovation does not equal success or quality. When a item is produced or added to a truck, it does not automatically mean that it is the best or the greatest. Ford could be the first to offer a sun roof in their super-duty trucks, but if the stupid thing leaks and won't seal properly then obviously we would not think that they were the best. Then Dodge might come along and improve the design of the sun roof and advance the idea that Ford had. Dodge would have the better product at that point. FIRST DOESN'T MEAN SQUAT.
And I hope that you are not trying to tell me that Ford and Chevy would have never gone with four doors if Dodge hadn't come out with it. I hope that is not what you are saying. I don't think that I will be offering up prayers of thanksgiving at my Dodge alter for their leading Ford and Chevy down the road to truck prosperity.
For the most part, most of Chevy's adds deal with the toughness and strength of their product. That IS a valid thing to advertise about. Rather than 'we were the first to offer a glove compartment............'
Malibu1
One person or company may have an idea, but it is usually improved upon over time by the competitors.....Especially in the car game.
i think the Motortrend means a lot. Funny how last year when Ford won, there were a lot of posts touting the greatness of the award, and now that Chevy won, it doesn't mean much.
i think they do good tests that mean a lot to the consumer for that years vehicle. Brutus you were right, Dodge won in '94 when they redesigned. i've said it before-- the mostly recently designed truck has the most recent technology available. Ford had the best truck last year, Chevy's got the best one this year, Dodge will probably get it back in 2 years.
Claims about customer satisfaction, highest resale, and anything that isn't actual number of units sold has a certain level of subjectivity. All of those claims have conditions which define the parameters. They have to explain the years the vehicles were bought or made, the years they were sold, whether they are using actual purchase price or MSRP or dealer invoice as a point of comparison. Are they counting trade-ins? What percentage of the resales were initially owned by fleets where the resale is lower, such as rental car companies that abuse their vehicles and contractors who tend to run their vehicles hard. What kind of questions were asked to the consumer about their satisfaction with the product? How many people were polled? What percentage is that of the total units sold during the period?
As with any polling, you can manipulate the numbers to say what makes you or your company look good. That's not to say that any of the claims by the Big Three is false or misleading. It's just the way the advertising game is played. To think that Chevy is taking a higher road is to ignore the obvious. The Big Three are all playing the game on the same playing field.
I'll agree that the number of units sold isn't necessarily representative of the quality of the vehicle. Several years ago, Ford was determined to have the Taurus beat out the Camry and Accord as the #1 best selling car in the US. They accomplished alot of it by increasing their fleet sales to rental car companies. That's the way alot of manufacturers pump up their sales figures.
On the other hand, if you continue to sell a large volume of vehicles over an extended period (such as, say, 15 years), it very likely is an indication of a good quality vehicle. Poorly designed vehicles can't sustain high sales figures. You won't get repeat business and word-of-mouth advertising will reduce the number of first time buyers.
But the question has to be asked, why the big deal about advertising? Get in and drive each truck and figure out what's best for you. Despite what you think, malibu1, all people who buy Fords and Dodges have not been duped by misleading advertising. I still want to see that big thing land in that Chevy truck bed.
The fact the ford sells the most trucks means that a lot of people think they are a good product for the $. I have more confidence in that ad claim than I do something less quantitative like "the longest lasting". All the companies have fluffy ads, so what.
ps. I don't drive a ford.
Malibu1
Malibu1
about 3 months or so earlier, motortrend did a head to head test of half tons of the Big 3 and declared the Silverado winner on all counts.
(i think the Ford in the test was a '98, but the only change their making for '99 is a few more horsies under the hood, but still not as much as the Bowtie's)
The general consensus of almost all the magazines and the dozen or so reviews I have found on the net is that the 1999 Silverado/Sierra has made a significant technical leapfrog over both Ford and Dodge that probably won't be met again until their next model changes.
The only negative knock on the new Silverado by most reviewers was the mild, not wild redesign. It seemed reviewers parroted each other on that aspect and I suspect it was more because they were disappointed Chevy didn't pull the same revolutionary redesign that Dodge and Ford previously did. That clouded their judgments in my opinion because I think the new Silverado is a damn nice looking truck compared to the 98s.
Malibu1
malibu1, Guess what? You won't be seeing any of those silly Chevy commercials with the best built longest lasting trucks anymore because now your friends at DODGE are using it for July 1988-1998 trucks. Must have been too many of you crashing your Chevy's lately. Too bad. Ever notice how from the side the new Silverado looks like a Dodge? They put the nice body line on the front fender to give it a bulge look (when viewed from the side) like the Dodge. Then they put the 1500 badges right on the door in the same place as the Dodges! Wow. That must blow your mind how they could come up with such original styling for an all new truck. Don't get me wrong. I like the new Silverado, but they benchmarked the Dodge all the way to job one!
"We were the first to offer a rotary temperature control.......the first to offer a grey interior on our quad cab trucks.......and the first to offer a 'bulge look' (when viewed from the side)........the rules have changed........"
I've been paying more attention to the Big Three truck commercials lately. Remind me again how the Chevy ads are so different from Ford and Dodge. I'm not saying they're worse, just that there is no significant difference.
Didn't the Model T have a bulge look when viewed from the side?
As far as claims in ads go, someone famous once said (I'm blanking right now), "There are Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics." Sure the disclaimers are there, but who can read the 6-point type at the speeds they put it up on the screen, or in the ad itself.
Like Brutus said earlier, and others have agreed with, the purchase of a turck should be personal. One should just drive whichever one they like best, for the job it will do, and be happy. It's personal prefernce. If something goes wrong with it, then have it fixed. Sure none of us want a problem truck, but in reality, nothing is perfect, and most everyone will get a lemon sometime in their lifetime.
Ford this, Dodge that. Chevy this, Ford that. Dodge this, Chevy that. It all boils down to relative expereince, personal preference, and opinions... which like a**holes, everyone's got one. Even me.
Cheers,
Ryan
Rides like a rock maybe?
The V-10 isn't even available in the F-150. It won't fit in the engine compartment. The V-10 replaces the 460. The comparative Chevy model is the 454. Chevy will soon replace that engine with a V-10. Chevy will be the last to make the change. Then again, how many people have you heard complain about the 454? It's been a great engine for Chevy, as have most of their gas engines. Isuzu will likely put them right back in the diesel competition as well.
Will Ford improve the V-10? Sure. I predict the 2000 model year will have 300 hp and a few more ft-lbs of torque. I also suspect that Ford, Dodge or Chevy will be making a V-12 in the next five years. When their is competition, the consumers are the big winners. I'm a Ford man, but the best thing that happened to pickup owners was the Chrysler bailout.
But that DODGE is still a DART dodge dart dodge dart
Why don't get off your [non-permissible content removed], and actually drive the competitions trucks, and see for your self, why there better then those pesky little bowtie girs!
I apologize if I have upset you so much. I cannot help what Dodge sees fit to put in their adds. Only they can. And they need to. My father - in law has a 98 Ram and I have driven it quite a bit. I have owned a F-150 and a 97 Chevy half ton. I have 'gotten off my [non-permissible content removed]' so to speak. I can have an opinion just as easily as you can tiger.
Malibu1
FINAL RESULTS
CHEVY 6449 points
GMC 6307 points
NISSAN 5904 points
DODGE 5806 points
FORD 5540 points
FORDS V10 AND DODGES cummings beaten by a [non-permissible content removed] 6 banger HA HA HA
Come to think of it, one of the 4X4 mags recently rated the new Jeep Grand Cherokee the most capable 4X4 over things like the Hummer -- their tests were 'real world' and included things like road noise in the cabin.
It all depends on what you're looking for. No one truck fits all people, and the ones that try invariably fail. I'm still very happy with my F350 -- it does what I want it to do. You're needs may (and probably will) vary dramatically from mine. While I hope you enjoy your Chevy, I wouldn't claim that it can outperform Ford and Dodge when you don't even know what the test would be.
Get real. Apples to apples. You're comparing a mid size V-6 to a full size heavy duty V-10? Different trucks for different uses.
There is not a compact, midsize, 1/2 ton, or 3/4 ton that could do what I need and a 1 ton single rear wheel would be pushing it since it would be over the GVWR. Without opting for a diesel, there is no more efficient engine choice for my use than one of the V-10s or the biggest Chevy V-8.
See your friendly Dodge dealer for details....
What part of advertising strategy don't you understand and why is it that you think Chevy/GM doesn't use as agressive tactics as are legally permissible when attempting to sell their vehicles to certain target markets?
haven't been to this topic in a while, but i just finished reading the last 60 posts in here.
Advertising:
============
Everybody's ads are to entice you, the one with the cash, to buy their vehicle, and they will use their vehicle's advantages to make the sale. Dodge's "firsts" claims are valid from the standpoint of innovation. Ford's sales claims are valid because they sell more F-series trucks than any other vehicle nameplate on the planet in any country. Chevy's longest-lasting claims are valid in terms of not having to buy one very x years. These same ads are flawed for the exact same reasons. Dodge was first, but that gave the others reason to one-up them. Ford sells the most, but cranking them out that fast causes qulaity problems. Long-lasting Chevys also means no one wants to replace their older truck for a new one.
You take into account whichever claim means the most to you, then you go see them in person. You drive them. And you make your decision on the showroom floor, not on the couch during a football game.
The worst ad right now has to be for the new GMC Sierra - the one where they say their truck is for the "one=percenters". Completely ignoring the fact that the identical Chevy Silverado is apparently for the other 99%. And that the GMC costs more for no apparent reason.
Magazine tests/awards:
======================
Absolutely pointless. The car magazines are looking for car features when they test trucks. Read that C/D comparison carefully. The Dodge was rated last because it was the most trucklike of the three. Huh? It's a @%$#^ truck!!!
That Four Wheeler test always puts emphasis on recreational off-roading. While there are some who do it, the majority of people buying a Cummjins-powered Ram or a Super Duty Ford aren't looking to take on the Rubicon next Saturday. They're looking to carry or drag something VERY heavy.
I gave up on Motor Trend some time ago. BVoth in MT and their new offshoot, Truck Trend, they prove how unknowledgeable and dramatically lazy they are. In the stat box: Tire size "not available". Excuse me? Did it occur to you losers to get on your knees and READ the size of the tire since you just spent days driving it? And as has been pointed out, a lot of these "of the year" tests are only for vehicles significantly redesigned. Four Wheeler, and Petersen's 4Wheel & Off Road are evern worse - their criteria? Significantly redesigned or a new engine! This is why the Dodge was even in the FW test. There have been years past where old, outdated trucks have been entered just for having added fuel injection to an otherwise similar engine.
The only magazine I have put any stock in lately is Open Road, and unfortunately for those who don't need it, they only test 4x4s. But they don't compare apples to oranges like the others. At worst, they might compare a Granny Smith to a Golden Delicious.
Vehicle names:
==============
Now that trucks are using names along with their weight class numbers, it's important to trigger an image with that name. Bighorn sheep butting heads. The "Super Duty" series. Thoughts of the Old West. All rugged, hard-working implications. Twenty five years ago, trucks had a brand and a number, and the only people who bought them, actually needed them. But as the consumer truck craze grows, it's important for the automakers to sway the fence-straddlers into their truck, and that rugged name does the job in many cases. Do you think you'd be interested in buying a "Dodge Class 1" instead of a "Dodge Ram 1500"?
Market research:
================
Being in market research, and having done plenty of studies on vehicles, I can tell you that more people pay attention to these ads than you might want to believe. And the thing is, they don't remember the actual vehicle as much as the ad itself. The Barbie dolls in the remote-control car. A lot of people remember the ad - not nearly as many remember it's for Nissan. Heck, we used to do a battery survey for years - EVERYBODY knows the pink bunny. They all know the slogan "going and going and...". At least a third of them thinks it's for Duracell.
These surveys, and the ads that mention them, are an attempt to solidify name recognition. And in some cases, the research says automakers have to go further. Did you know that from 1955 until 1988, the Thunderbird did not have the name Ford anywhere on its exterior, but in 1989, they added the blue-oval plaque to the trunklid? Why? To reinforce the name Ford in the public eye. It's all about mental manipulation. Completely off-topic, but similarly, research says people think skim milk is healthier, but if you have to, you can buy 1% or 2% milk. Ever read the label to see the fat content of whole milk? It's 3.5%. Yep, whole milk is 96.5% fat free. Do they advertise that? Nope - that would mean only one milk product to make, resulting in lower costs. Instead, they make 4 milk products playing on the health fear, it requires extra production costs, and they pass it on to you.
====================
Take all of what you see and read with a grain of salt. Nothing should sway your decision for buying a new truck more than your eyes on the sheetmetal, your ears listening to the engine, your hands on the wheel, and your butt in the seat. When you find the truck that fits you and your needs best, buy it. When other people ask about it, tell them why you bought it, but more importantly, how you use it.
I hope that now, we can return to a more civilized discussion about actually experiences as to why one is better than the other.
Cheers,
Ryan
I found your post to be a little long-winded and preachy.......but I must hand it to you for having the staying power to type all that in. You must REALLY like trucks.......