What is this thing worth?

fintail

I suspect many cars, especially from that period, that legitimately sold for 125K 24-36 months ago are lucky to hit 80K today.

Mr_Shiftright

It's hard to say what the market is when we have so few points of sale. Last result I have for a GT-E is late 2006 for a restored one selling for $82,000. The market for cars with few sales is particularly volatile since it only represents the opinion of two bidders in a room one time in one year---and they could have been in a grudge match that is not repeatable.

Time will tell. In any event, it is a rare car so it's not going to tank thats for sure.

Mr_Shiftright

SORRY OTTO!!!

I had to remove the photo you posted. Way too big for our page. It throws off the whole format. There's a free software called VSO Image Resizer so you know next time.

Anyway----asking prices are not market value. You can ask whatever you want for a car. Appraisers always try to search for validated sale prices, so that's why perhaps you and I are off by $20K-$30K. We'd have to follow through on the advert to see what really happened.

If you find any "hammer prices" (SOLD!) post the link, that would be helpful.

aztonyg1385

I have come across a 1966 Chevy Impala 2-door. The car has a 283ci engine and 2-spd Powerglide transmission. Mileage is about 114k. It is somewhat rare in that it is a factory A/C car, and when orignially equipped, had California emissions (smog pump).
I can get an idea of what the car is worth, but few people have an idea of what real value the factory air adds to the vehicle.
Any ideas?

burdawg

I don't think in this case having factory A/C will make a big difference. The most important factors will be the overall condition of the car. Having the common 283/Powerglide powertrain won't help out in it's value, either. Air injection (smog pump) on a 66? Can someone else chime in on that? I don't recall that type of emission control that early......

texases

I'd agree the AC won't make much difference, many potential buyers would yank it all out and put in a crate motor. As for the smog pump, CA was early on this, so maybe it's appropriate. Not like someone would add it, that's for sure!

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah, factory air might be worth a premium of 5% on a car like this. Being a '66, with a small block and automatic, there's not tremendous value here. If the car was clean and nice, maybe $6,000--$8,000. If it needs some cosmetics or body work, well under $5,000 and keep deducting. If it's a magnificent show car with a $50,000 restoration, maybe you'd get $20K. A local show #2 plastic trophy car maybe $12K.

This presumes it's a 2-door Impala hardtop.

Smog equipment doesn't matter one way or the other. Someone wanting a fanatically correct restoration to match a build sheet might want it, but then nobody is going to do that kind of resto on a car like this, so the point is mute.

bumpy

California usually mandated emissions stuff a year or three before the rest of the country: PCV valves, smog pumps, etc.

Mr_Shiftright

Yep '66 California cars can have smog on them. The Feds wouldn't mandate it so California did on its own, having more need for it than most of the country at the time.

Really, these days, unless you start with a very nice and very important car that you inherited or bought 30 years ago, 95% of all restoration projects today are financial suicide, guaranteed. As one magazine put it, all you're doing is restoring it for the next guy to buy cheap from you.

texases

" all you're doing is restoring it for the next guy to buy cheap from you. "

Which is why the only thing I'll think about (in my daydreams, of course), is a 'rolling restoration', a decent running car that I can both drive and work on as I see fit to pour money down that drain

Mr_Shiftright

There you go--- a modest, "everyday use" type of restoration makes a lot more sense.

burdawg

Hmmmm.... This was bothering me so I went out and Googled 66 Chevy's for sale....no sign of air injection on any of them, small block or big block. My dad had a 66 427 SS Impala (his last real performance car), but I don't recall it that well. My recollection is that air injection first started to appear in the late 60's.

Mr_Shiftright

It was called option K19 "AIR Equipment" and yes, it was available in 1966. That's what the book says.

texases

Two things - we're talking California here, so no other cars would have it, and it was extremely common to yank it off and toss it, so I'd bet most of the California cars that originally had it have it no longer.

burdawg

Yes, that's a good point.

burdawg

I found a another website that outlines the history of emission controls, and if it's correct the only California requirement on 1966 models was positive crankshaft ventilation, but it does state that air injection was required in California on most 1968 and later model cars. It also says that manufacturers were "experimenting" with other controls starting in 1966 which probably means that it was an option as you say, and wound up on some models sold.
I worked at a garage in Long Beach, California in the early 70's which did emission work, and I remember the disorganized early days of emission controls very well.

andre1969

I used to be naive enough to think that they hadn't been invented until the 1980's, simply because the oldest cars I've had with them only dated back to 1985 (a Silverado pickup and a LeSabre). I did have an '82 Cutlass Supreme with the 231, but I can't remember if it had one or not.

I was shocked to discover that at some point in its life, my '76 LeMans had a smog pump. I didn't notice at first, but in 2007 I had the car at the GM Nationals in Carlisle PA, and I was showing its engine bay to a guy who had a '77 LeMans there. That was when we both noticed this one silver metal tube. I had thought it was just part of the a/c system, but then noticed it wasn't connected to it. That's when we also noticed a place on one of the pulleys for an extra belt. So we surmised that the thing originally had a smog pump.

So would that mean that this car was originally sold in California? Or by 1976, were there other locales requiring a smog pump as well?

texases

I don't know the specifics, but certainly by '73 or so the feds had numerous smog requirements which Detroit was meeting the the smog pumps, among other things. I got several requests to remove them at the gas station I worked at, we wouldn't do it, but I saw a number of cars with plugs in the exhaust manifold where the piping had been. (this was Cincinnati '72-'75).

Mr_Shiftright

You can see the 1966 option list here:

K19 A.I.R. Cal Only

The K19 is described elsewhere on a Chevelle website as:

"K19 AIR , smog pump, '66+"

armes

Further investigation proved that this 1917 Olds V-8 does in fact have roller lifters and individual copper oil lines from rod journal to rod journal. It also only has 2 main bearings, 1 front and 1 rear. I have pictures on an SD disc and need to find out how to put them on line. Even have pictures of the roller lifters. :mad:

Mr_Shiftright

You can start your own Carspace page, post photos there, and then paste the URL of your carspace page here!

www.carspace.com, then click on "my carspace" to get started.

bobbybuche

guys i started this forum with hopes of getting rid of a 1959 t bird with a very strange set up called a parade car and after searching online trying to find another one like it and never actually finding an identical match i contacted ford and after a year they get up with me this week to tell me this was one of the parade t birds they introduced in 59 to show the new body style off to the public. the problem was that these cars had little structual rigidity to them having the roof chopped and an extra foot of fiberglass added behind the rear seats to sit on during parades these cars often bent at the joint where the fiberglass was laid. fortunatley mine held up over the years and the lady that had it before me took very good care of the car. long story short the car is not the mangled up fabricated piece of crap i thought is was and i may actually be able to get a little money for it if the economy turns around :shades: :

Mr_Shiftright

Did you get all this in writing on a Ford letterhead? That's really an odd story, since the new body style was 1958. The '59 Bird had only a few small cosmetic changes from the '58. So in a way Ford's response doesn't make sense.

bobbybuche

Im aware that the new body "square bird" came out in 58 after the "little bird" body style the year before and i talked to the rep. form ford and he has his head set on the explanation he gave me and the only thing i can figure is mabey he was refering to the "parade car," which was released in 59 and the 430 v8 that came out that year following the 352 fe series from the previous year. however ford is supposed to be sending me a bill of sale proving that this was a modification directly from ford. and by the way mr shiftright you know entirely too much about cars you make me feel like im talking to my dad who owned a foreign auto shop and really got me hooked on these old cars and their history and thanks again for pushing me that first time i posted to just get my damn car done

Mr_Shiftright

Well thanks but one thing you learn is that there's always something new to learn! A good historian is very dogged and is always testing not only other people's knowledge and claims, but most important, his own knowledge and claims.

bobbybuche

i need a 1959 thunderbird or 1960 thunderbird air clearner housing in good condition. this is the last part i need for my car everything else on the car is brand new and the engine is restored. i just have a generic air filter housing but i would like the original. if you know anyone that has one let me know

Mr_Shiftright

Oh easily found I think. Get yourself a copy of Hemmings Motor News, a cold beer and a pad and pencil and you're ready to "hunt". :P

euphonium

Try "Bob's Fords", Portland, OR

bobbybuche

bobs fords had alot but no air intake and now im just checking ebay and every other auciton i can online but again if anyone finds and original 1959 or 1960 air filter housing let me know

randyallen

every research I' ve done turns up a very disappointing value assessment for my 87 tbird even though you couldn't ask for a finer example of an 87 ....whats up with this?

Mr_Shiftright

It's just a supply and demand equation---what people want vs. how many are out there.

explorerx4

it's not a turbo or sport, which does not help at all. sorry.

fintail

A mint condition Turbo model would have some limited special interest appeal, wouldn't it?

But yeah, a normal car is just going to be a nicely kept old car...and most of those have very low demand.

Mr_Shiftright

Even a mint turbo coupe would be lucky to break $4000.

bobbybuche

yeah thats very true. as soon as ford got rid of the future bird body style things went down hill. they made a ton of these cars and unlike their predecesors they really didnt have the kind of classic car curb appeal. but truly most american cars in that era really lost any respect they had from the early 70's and 60's. take for instatnce the nova or monte carlo now that was truly sad

Mr_Shiftright

I've seen a few highly customized turbo coupes that were really very nice driving cars, but it took a considerable amount of work and $$$ to turn these 80s Birds into something remotely exciting to drive and interesting to look at.

burdawg

There's a reason the Thunderbird became known as the Thunderchicken.

Mr_Shiftright

I once saw a black turbo coupe, lowered, very throaty exhaust, nice wheels, monochromatic paintwork----very nice.

bobbybuche

yeah i went to good guys hot road show in charlottte NC in october and i was suprised to see an 89 thunderbird that was all dressed up and in really good shape. it just seemed a little out of place with a pro street camaro sitting right beside it with a two foot blower stiking out of the hood

tbirdlady

I have a 1970 t-bird 2 door, baby blue in color. Trying to find out if this is a stock color, seems to be but in all the research i have done on line I can't find out for sure. Anyone out there know?

texases

Any of these look like it?

I guess T-Bird colors were shared with Lincolns, not with the other Fords.

explorerx4

i had an '83 turbo coupe. 4 cyl, 5 speed manual, plus all the lux stuff from back then. decent gas mileage and faster than a mustang gt.
it was a lot of fun, for relatively, not a lot of money.
one of those ford 'euro' attempts that fizzled after a few years.
they even put in a speedometer that didn't stop at 85.

lemko

My understanding is that the 1967-1971 Thunderbirds and 1968-71 Lincoln Mark III share the same platform.

parm

OK. Time to change gears a bit - literally. Is it me? Or, does the $29,900 asking price for this '65 Chrysler 300L coupe seem a "squosh" high?

http://www.motorcarportfolio.com/product.php?id=2915

fintail

Does "squosh" = nearly double?

Mr_Shiftright

I can't see the photo (not loading) but I'd say yeah, it's more than double what it's worth.

Chrysler letter cars after 1961, after the G, are very weak cars in terms of collectability. The seller is trying to ride the coat tails of the letter cars that actually meant something. Think earlier/later T-Birds for example.

andre1969

Chrysler letter cars after 1961, after the G, are very weak cars in terms of collectability. The seller is trying to ride the coat tails of the letter cars that actually meant something. Think earlier/later T-Birds for example.

Interestingly, that coincides perfectly to when the non-letter 300-Series came out. I guess it worked out pretty well for Chrysler at the time, since the non-letter 300 was pretty popular. It sort of replaced the old Saratoga as the mid-line Chrysler, although at a cheaper price point than the Saratoga had been. Unfortunately though, it watered down the 300 nameplate in the long run. But that's the Detroit way of doing things...look how "Fury", "Bel Air", "Impala", "Fairlane", et al all got watered down over the years.

For me, the 300 lost a lot of its magic for 1960, when it started looking too much like the other Chryslers. The '57-59 were unique with the forward-thrusting trapezoidal grilles, while the '55-56 also had a unique grille (well, it used an Imperial grille rather than a Chrysler grille, at least). The '60 was still a pretty hot car though, and could be had with a 4-speed.

parm

Whad-da-ya mean you can't load the photos? What are running? DOS 3.1?????? LOL! Sorry, couldn't resist. ;-)

Too bad you can't see this '65. I'm certainly no authority on these cars (I can barely spell "300L"), but this one in dark blue looks good to my eye. Never really noticed them before. I've always loved that funky shape of the C-pillar common to mid-1960's mopars. Just didn't know they put'em on cars that big.

Love the Magnum wheels and red line tires too. You could put those on a baby stroller and it would look good to me. Factory A/C that supposedly "blows cold" (ever hear a dealer say anything different?) is a nice added touch.

This dealer apparently loves to put ridiculously high prices on their cars and doesn't care how long they take to sell. They also have what appears to be a nice '64 6-window Sedan Deville listed at $22,900. They've had this one for about a year. $13K-$15K would be all the money (assuming it's as nice as advertised) and you'd really have to love it for that.

explorerx4

if you click on the youtube video commercial for the 59 olds, there are a bunch of other ones you can watch for various cars.

texases

Shifty- Here's a shot of the engine and exterior on that 300L, the rest of the car is equally clean, does that change your value estimate?