How does gas at $4 and higher impact you?

gagrice

that's way too grim a view of human nature, which I don't share. Maybe because i don't watch television, which keeps my paranoia levels on "average"?

You should check the news online from time to time. I don't watch TV either. I read of people killing people on a daily basis in the USA. Not over Spam so much. But over drugs or enjoyment. Best odds is stay away from big cities. Own enough land to grow at least some of your own food. Diversify your investments. I have been reading about hydrogen powered cars since I was a teenager in the 1950s. I don't think they are any closer to a practical Hydrogen car than 50 years ago. I plan to stick with diesel. I will switch to biodiesel when the manufacturers say go for it.

fintail

I wonder what the average distance is between home and work, or home and shopping, and if it is walkable or bikeable for the average person. A lot of idiotic residential development has taken place in the past 50 years. It's one reason other first world nations can survive with huge gas taxes - they don't have to use as much.

berri

I think there's a bigger problem down the road for CA and the southwest than oil: water. A few decades down the road I can see this creating growth for the stagnant north and midwest where the water supply is abundant.

gagrice

A very valid point. The Central valley of CA is already being cut off from irrigation water to keep the SF people supplied with water. Last time I drove up there many fields were not being farmed. And huge tracts of fruit and nut trees were dying from lack of water.

http://www.calwatercrisis.org/problem.htm

Mr_Shiftright

Ah, yes, WATER could be the "new gold" or the "new oil". In that case, Canada will become filthy rich in the future...the new Saudi Arabia?

re crime---somewhat off topic but just for the record, violent crime rates have been dropping constantly, steeply and dramatically in America for two+ decades now. TV and bad journalism makes the world seem far worse than it is, and ironically, create so much clutter as to distract people from far riskier events that are unfolding--such as energy shortages, climate change, poverty, etc etc.

stever

The proposal would make all roadways follow the “85th percentile” rule commonly endorsed and employed by transportation officials. That means setting limits that correspond with speeds at which 85 percent of vehicles safely travel.

Lawmakers look at raising speed limits to 80 mph in Michigan (Detroit News)

No word if Exxon/Mobil is lobbying behind the scenes :-) but it appears that gas costing at least $3.50 is the new norm.

Mr_Shiftright

Sounds like a really bad idea. Most American drivers simply aren't competent enough to drive 80 mph. Worst still, the damage to cars and drivers goes up exponentially. Worser stiller, so few states have inspection laws anymore, so we have incompetent people on bad roads with bald tires, sucking 30% more gas while going 85+ .....nice...it's just a win-win all around ain't it?

I'd be okay with 65 mph though.

fintail

More fuel is probably wasted at negligently managed traffic controls than at high speeds. Speed limits are too low as it is - on so many roads, 60 years ago, my grandfather was able to go the same speed I am today - but in an underbraked wallowy old thing with virtually no active or passive safety technology.

I do support inspections though, something found in most developed countries.

I just drove through eastern WA and OR - in 98% of it, 65 is slow.

dieselone

Here in Illinois our governor just signed a bill to allow 70mph speed limits on the interstates. Whoo Hoo!! Really won't affect me as I've been driving 70-80 on the interstates around here almost daily (we have 3 interstates within 5 miles of our house) and have yet be pulled over in the 7 years I've lived here.

The states I've lived and and traveled through with 70 mph speed limits seems to have a lot of traffic going 75-80 mph anyway. But I've mainly lived in fly-over country where traffic isn't to bad (well until you get to a major city anyway).

"I do support inspections though, something found in most developed countries. "

Unfortunately that likely would be viewed by many as a regressive tax on the poor.

I have had mandatory inspections when moving from state to state. I know when I moved to Missouri I had to have a service center do a quick safety check (I doubt they were overly thorough as they probably just wanted their $20). I think Ohio might have too, but that was over 10 years ago and I can't entirely remember.

hpmctorque

Do you limit your speed to 65? Okay, I'm confident you're a good driver with a good record, a safe, well maintained car and good rubber. I'll bet, though, if you randomly asked 10 speeders about their driving competence, 9 out of 10 would say they're good drivers and their cars are in safe working order.

Hmm, I guess I just made your point about 65 mph speed limits, but I favor higher limits.

Mr_Shiftright

We all exceed the posted limit by 5-10 mph, so 65 mph puts me at 75, but 75 puts a lot of people at 85---and 85 mph requires a much higher degree of attention than 65 mph, especially on American roads, where there are people going 90, 55, and 45 all on the same road.

At 85 mph, I would predict massive carnage on American roads.

gagrice

At 85 mph, I would predict massive carnage on American roads.

I noticed on Interstate 20 across TX that people generally reached their desire to go fast at 80 MPH the posted limit. I found myself slowing down to 75 MPH when I was away from the big trucks. For me 70-75 is a relaxing speed to drive. When you get to 85 with a semi on your tail and one along side you the stress level rises. I like to drive. I don't like to be white knuckling the steering wheel. I hate sharing the road with big trucks. I don't see the skill level in truck drivers today that they had 30 years ago. Too many working against the clock. Here in CA they are not supposed to go over 55 MPH and you will be hard pressed to find a truck driver that stays even close to that speed. And the law is not enforced. They go right past our speed trap on I8 at 75 MPH with the rest of the traffic every day.

gagrice

Why don't the donut munchers enforce this law in CA???

22406. No person may drive any of the following vehicles on a highway
at a speed in excess of 55 miles per hour:

(a) A motortruck or truck tractor having three or more axles or any motortruck or truck tractor drawing any other vehicle.

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc22406.htm

Mr_Shiftright

Yep, 85 mph is "white knuckle" driving for sure.

124 ft per second! Standard reaction time is usually expressed at 1.5 seconds.

So if you're pretty quick, your foot will at least be on the brake pedal in 186 feet at 85 mph.

More to the topic, the gas consumption from 65 mph to 85 mph.

The Dep't of Energy calculates as a rough rule that for every 5 mph you go over 60 mph, this would cost you .21 cents a gallon, with gas at $3 a gallon.

ohenryx

fintail, msg 831
I do support inspections though, something found in most developed countries.

Here in Texas we have had mandatory yearly state safety inspections for as long as I can remember, and that is a very long time. And in the last few years, I have begun to suspect that Texas is NOT a developed country. (smile)

gagrice, msg 835
I don't see the skill level in truck drivers today that they had 30 years ago.

When I was a kid, 50+ years ago, truck drivers, the ones who drove the big over the road rigs, the 18 wheelers, were noted for their proficiency, their courtesy, their professionalism. That has long since gone the way of the dodo bird.

I think the end of the "professional truck driver" came in 1983, with the crash at the Connecticut toll booth that killed 7 people.

fintail

I doubt many would exceed 85 or so. People reach a comfort zone and stop. Even in Germany, where drivers training and vehicle conditions are far above NA, everyone doesn't go flat out on the unrestricted Autobahn. I think many Muricans would be scared to go past 80. Heck, in the PNW, 75 is too much for most.

fintail

What do they inspect?

In my area, it is an emissions test every other year, and literally nothing else. Maybe Texas is slowly coming around :P

fintail

I dunno, I've cruised at 100-120 for hours on end, it isn't scary. You just have to pay attention. Can't text or yap or eat. The way it should be.

How many gears were on the car used in DOE calculations? Too general and vague of a claim.

stever

I remember when Greyhound bus drivers were the cream of the crop (just ahead of Continental Trailways drivers). Now the casino charter buses have trashed their reps.

Actually saw a Greyhound on I-40 last week; first one I've seen in ages.

Mr_Shiftright

Yes not "scary"--just "white knuckle" in the sense that you are paying attention much more closely.

ohenryx

what do they inspect?

The below list is lifted, intact, from the web site of the “Texas Department of Public Safety”.

In addition, in the 7 county area immediately in and around Houston, there is an annual “tail pipe inspection” for pollutants.

And one other note: If it's raining, or it's been raining recently enough for the ground to still be wet, you can't get an inspection (brake test).

On EDIT: And you can't pass if the check engine light is on, for whatever reason.

EDIT #2: They check the "aim" of the head lights, not just that they're working. Or at least they're supposed to. A lot of idiots running around with jacked up 4 wheel drive trucks and aftermarket HID headlights that would blind people passing overhead in a 747 at 40,000 feet.

---------------------------

Items of Inspection for a Passenger Car
05.01 Inspect Every Passenger Car For: (Listed in suggested order of inspection)

* Check for evidence of Financial Responsibility

1. Horn
2. Windshield Wipers
3. Mirror
4. Steering
5. Seat Belts
6. Brakes (system) (Parking - beginning with 1960 models)
7. Tires
8. Wheel Assembly
9. Exhaust System
10. Exhaust Emission System (beginning with 1968 models)
11. Beam Indicator (beginning with 1948 models)
12. Tail Lamps (2); (1) if 1959 model or earlier
13. Stop Lamps (2); (1) if 1959 model or earlier
14. License Plate Lamp (1)
15. Rear Red Reflectors (2)
16. Turn Signal Lamps (beginning with 1960 models)
17. Head Lamps (2)
18. Motor, Serial, or Vehicle Identification Number
19. Gas caps on vehicles 2-24 model years old.

gagrice

What is the charge for that inspection. I just had our 1990 Lexus LS400 smogged. It cost $48 every two years. New cars do not get smog checked the first 6 years.

fintail

Nice, thanks. I don't find any of that too intrusive, myself...but I am sure some will. In Europe, they also inspect for rust/rot, if there is any structural danger, and windshield cracks are forbidden too. My fintail could pass all that no problem, so anything on the road daily should be able to. A car can be pretty homely and beat, and still pass all that with flying colors.

fintail

I like that kind of driving, but I am always kind of hyper-aware, which helps me become irritated in slower suburban or city traffic. If actually paying attention scares some people, they can keep right or take a secondary road. It works elsewhere.

gagrice

The old Lexus is way below the max levels they test for. Kind of a waste of money. Though I can see a visual inspection for rust, lights etc. I think some states do cite for rusted and damaged vehicles. I think they should be kept off the roads myself. If a person cannot afford to maintain a vehicle in a safe condition they should not be allowed on the road. Except in parades. Maybe not even parades. Seems like a couple people got killed recently by defective parade vehicles.

lemko

http://www.angelfire.com/al4/buscatal/photo/608.jpg



Continental Trailways had some drop-dead gorgeous buses. I think they tried to make bus travel as nice as then-glamorous air travel. I remember riding Continetal Trailways buses when I was very little. It was a memorable experience. The driver had a uniform that would've put an airline pilot to shame and they had "stewardesses" in red uniforms.

stever

I bet I hold the record around here. Went from Memphis to San Fran once on a Greyhound. 50 odd hours straight.

Then I went back after a week!

But I was in the band as a kid and did a few 14 hours ones as "training".

We road the bus from Tucson to Cancún in '99, but took two months to get there. Great way to travel in Mexico.

fintail

They are pretty generous. I once had an 89 S-class with almost 200K miles on it - it breezed through emissions tests, as it was maintained.

In UK and Germany anyway, any body panel holes will fail your inspection. I think that's too strict, but structural rust should be a fail. Such vehicles do break, and often take out others with them. Thinking of defective parade vehicles, not long ago someone was killed in a Model T, one of the wooden wheels broke.

gagrice

Riding a bicycle has always been my ideal if I was living in a city. Bicycle theft in the USA is a real problem. That is why they keep making bigger and heavier bicycle locks. Leave it to the Japanese to come up with a solution.

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=pcZSU40RBrg

stever

NYC should have done that for all their Citibikes. But there's a lot of subway track and utilities just under the sidewalk there. Seems like it'd be easier and cheaper just to do an elevator rig like they do with cars and go up, not down.

andre1969

I've ridden a bike around DC, and it's not too bad. Just know what areas to stay out of I guess! I went on a 28 mile bike ride on Saturday...I was surprised that I was able to do it, and it didn't wear me out!

If it was safer, I'd ride my bike to work on nice days. It's only a 2.5 mile commute, but a good deal of it is along a busy road, that's not all that bike-friendly.

Mr_Shiftright

What a great idea. NYC totally sucks when it comes to accommodating bicyclists.

I figure I only save $65 a month riding my bicycle, but maybe a lot more if I factor in staying in shape. (100 miles/week = 400 miles a month / 25 mpg in my car = 16 gallons @ $4 per = $64.

of course, the number is not really accurate, since some of the bike riding is recreational, not shopping/errands.

stever

That's one thing that amuses me about my friends here in NM - they have an off-grid house. Very green. But they built it on 20 acres 20 miles from town. So they wound up with a Subaru to get to the ski hill in the winter, an Echo for running errands and a truck/camper for traveling. Even in the Echo, it costs about $4 just to get a loaf of bread or gallon of milk or to check the post office box.

I unloaded our bikes from the van but we've only ridden to the closer neighbor a half mile away to chit-chat.

Mr_Shiftright

Achieving actual "greenosity" is a chimera because, let's face it, nobody REALLY wants to live in the 19th century. This is why there are no more hippies!

gagrice

Reverting to hunter gatherers would not set well with most of the Eco Nuts. They have deluded themselves into believing that driving a Prius, eating sushi and putting $25,000 worth of solar panels on their 3000 sq ft home is being ecologically astute.

Steve, I understand wanting to be off the grid as your friends are. I bought an off grid lot in Hawaii in the late 1980s, with that as my plan. A real estate bubble changed my plans when the property tripled in value over night. So I did what all good capitalist do, took the money and ran. Hope you are enjoying the solitude.

stever

The solitude is almost too much of a good thing. I like having neighbors and being able to walk to shop or whatever. Being off the grid is great - there's just no reason you can't do that in town, and if you do that in town, you can use city utilities if you want for backup. Not having to burn gas to mail a package is a big plus.

btw, this place is about 1,000 sq. ft. with a two car garage, and a nice porch. Plenty for a couple and the occasional house guest.

gagrice

I would prefer my 20 acre cushion at the edge of town. Just big enough to have decent shopping and restaurants. Not a tourist trap town either where you are fighting tourists all season long like in Kona.

You got me thinking about my off the grid lot in Milolii Hawaii. Looking at the area on Zillow those lots are still selling in the $45k range I sold mine for in 1990. Not a lot of homes built 24 years later.

fintail

There are still hippies, they are all now ~60+, drive loaded Subies or real SUVs, and revel in nice pensions and cash in from lucking out in the most inflationary real estate and investment market in history, supporting (or becoming) those they once protested against.

fintail

Was the bubble due to hype about Japanese investors buying Hawaii? Funny how that scare didn't pan out.

Regarding biking, the goodie goodie greenie idiot leaders in Seattle want to force people to do it, but it is Russian roulette - especially out here in the boomburbs with so many new to motoring "drivers" - people get mowed down all the time.

gagrice

Yes the late 1980s real estate bubble in Hawaii was driven mostly by the Japanese investors. Just like the current bubble is being driven by cash buyers both domestic and foreign looking for safe places to stash cash with a little ROI.

I think the bike thing in Japan is part of their getting away from personal motor vehicles. I don't think the Japanese auto market has ever recovered from their down slide 20 years ago. I have not followed it much. Just little snippets.

Mr_Shiftright

Just like some people should never be allowed to own a gun, some people should never be allowed on a bicycle.

fintail

And maybe even more not allowed behind the steering wheel of a motorized vehicle. Maybe I am too paranoid about local "drivers", but other than maybe Sunday mornings before noon, I fear being on a motorcycle here, and I fear being on a bicycle here.

Mr_Shiftright

I think in japan you have to take some kind of psychiatric exam as part of your driver training. I think that's a great idea but I just can't imagine the DMV here implementing it.

gagrice

An interesting solution in Indiana. You can drive a moped/scooter without a license. Lots of them running around. My son-in-law said they were all the DUIs that lost their DLs. Far more than I ever see here.

fintail

In my area, I know you can operate a scooter or moped without an endorsement if it is capable of no more than 30mph, otherwise you need that - and it isn't a bad thing. I wish car licensing was as rigorous (still nothing compared to Europe) as motorcycles. I am not sure if those slower things need a car license, if they don't need a motorcycle endorsement, I would assume they don't need anything.

fintail

It's not the crazies I worry about - some would call me one of them. It's the distracteds. The do gooders want to force more people to use feet and 2 wheels, but they don't seem to want to do anything about the idiots.

stever

Quite a few scooters in my area aren't licensed, thus not insured.

Michigan requires proof of insurance to keep your tag current but that's probably easy enough to circumvent too.

dieselone

Some may be insured. I have liability insurance on an unlicensed golf cart which we use to drive from our campground to the marina. Not that a law means everyone is insured anyway;)

Mr_Shiftright

How ironic, given that scooters are by far the most dangerous 2-wheeler you could possibly choose to ride on.

tiny wheels + quick steering + steep steering rake angle = SPLAT!

fintail

The whiners aren't about safety, they are just anti-car at all costs. Of course, their own hybrids or dopey CUVs don't count. A bicycle, foot, and bus world is their dream, so long as highly paid public sector manager types have private transport and live in detached housing.