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Not everyone is obsessed with paying as little as possible.
Enjoy!
entitled to earn a living but.....
With all due respect... I'll never understand why anyone would be proud to pay one cent more than they need to for ANYTHING
An aside... the lot was filled with accords.. only about 6-7 civics of any kind on the lot.My salesperson told me that shes had many people come to look at an accord.. but buy the civic... yes there IS a shortage in some areas.
Please remember the way this business is set up is 'I win, you lose.' 'You win, I lose.' I wish it was a 'win win' situation. It is not.
I finally bought my Honda EX with MT and Navi and the right color after much tribulations, at what I consider a more reasonable price.
I did not take finance from the dealer.
Since the car was so hard to find, I wanted to keep the original car and put in a 'Lojack Premium Early Warning for the Ownship of the car package'.
With an passive alarm system, it came to $1300. I was in a hurry, trying to get the car ready for Thanksgiving.
Also talked to Lojack without knowing I was actually talking to the retail sales representative. She reassured me that it was a very fair price. And if I get it from Lojack, it would have been the same fixed price.
Right after I ordered the Lojack to be installed, I found out the invoice price of the Lojack with passive alarm for the dealer was circa $700, and I paid a 40 plus percentage over invoice.
I called back the dealer right the way and said, 'Hold it.' The finance guy said,'It is already done, early this morning.'
Lesson to be learned. Not just you have to negotiate shrewdly for the car itself. Every other transaction in the new car dealership, a car buyer can over paid.
In my case, the good deal on the car is lost on the bad deal for the Lojack.
Good luck.
Manny
On a Civic, it's 1.5 hours labor. With most shops at 90.00/hr or more, that 40% markup was reasnoble.
The dealer does not install the Lojack. The Lojack Technicians come to the dealer. It is done very fast, several cars can be done within 1.5 hours of time. The dealer gets a fleet rate from Lojack.
The $700 invoice is the invoice that the dealer pays the Lojack. Anything above $700 is profit, pure and simple.
With that said profit is not a bad thing, but again it's how many times the product or service is resold.
It's not a "gravy" job the techs love to do.
Even so, a 40% markup on retail merchandise isn't excessive. Take a look at jewelry, furniture etc.
Profit is a good, not a bad thing!
Labor rates vary by area. In the San Francisco area, I know labor can be well over 100.00 per hour.
When you figure the HUGE expenses shops and technicians have to pay for the tools and equipment required to work on today's cars, it doesn't seem so bad.
I should have told the dealer that I would decide on the installation of the Lojack after Thanksgiving, meanwhile I will take bids over the Internet.
I am sure that if I had done that, I would have gotten a more competitive price. Might even get one installed for $100 over invoice, or 10 to 15% mark up, instead of paying 45% mark up.
With a 45% profit margin to move around, there may be a lot of bidders who would do it for less than $1300. I could have saved up to $500. No chump change.
Well, in this 'Win or Lose' situation. I lost. I am not happy to be the loser. The winner of course is happy.
Why can't we all get along?
I have decided to reopen the negotiation with the Finance guy at Curry Honda. I bought the civic 06 sedan at an acceptable price to me. And I left the dealer with a reasonable profit. But now I feel taken by the $1295 installation of the Lojack.
The finance guy explained to me that this is what the Lojack Co. charges. I found out that the Lojack had charged the dealer less than $700, and I am paying $1300. Previous calculation of 40% profit is incorrect.
It is close to 100% profit.
I have not signed the contract for the Lojack face to face, it was a verbal discussion only. And when I wanted to change my mind, the finance guy jumped and told me that it was already installed, because the Lojack Guy came early.
He also said that Lojack would not lower the price.
But the price is not Lojack's to lower. The price is charged by him.
I will let you guys know what happens. I did not come this far to negotiate a reasonable price for the car and get taken in the end by "dealer add ons."
The guy tried to sell a $1650 Honda Care Warranty to me, else where on Bernardi in the Internet and even in Curry Honda itself, the deal went for $950.
He relented and gave it to me for $950 and said I got a good deal. But if I had mistakenly agree to the $1650 price I would have cancelled it anyway.
Now I got to get out of the Lojack deal. Any advice? I know that I cannot cancel it. Part of the Lojack deal that is different is that the finance guy claimed that it is already installed.
Manny
Same thing for extended warranty - not saying it's not worth it, just that you have to shop around - there are many companies that offer extended warranties for a lot less than what the dealership does. You can get the extended warranty anytime later, so there is no reason to buy it from the dealer.
One thing you should ask for is to return the lowjack and get the money refunded. I'm not sure if that's possible, but like most consumer products I expect to be able to return it for a full refund within 30 days. At least extended warranties can usually be cancelled for a full refund within 30 days.
Keep negotiating, the profit is more than 100%, I got quoted $700 to get lojack installed, that means the dealer cost is probably half that. So I would guess they get it for about $350 or so, so they are making up the money they lost in the extended warranty and the car they sold you.
If others are reading this, learn the lesson from Manny, don't buy any, any dealer add ons unless you do the research.
Alex
I know they look real nice and all but they are an economy, mass produced car, they will be making at least 350,000 of them this model year. Everyone on the block will have one soon. They will never be in short supply.
I feel like I'm in a real estate buyers meeting where people keep thinking that real estate will never come down. Just because it comes down every decade for the past hundred years doens't tell you anything right.
Alex
My thoughts exactly. For me, the salesperson is simply there to sit next to me during the test drive and for me to make my non-negotiable offer (I use the bobst method). And I really wish they would just shut up during the test drive. Conversation is distracting when I'm trying to feel the ride, handling, engine & car noise, etc.
Thanksgiving has held up my 'picking up of the car.' Next week Wednesday I will pick it up. I have the Premium Package Lojack with the early warning system and a passive alarm by Lojack.
This is probably a little more expensive than the one you are talking about. Probably dealer cost is $500.
The mark up is about 130 percent.
I will try to get a refund. But the best I can hope for at this point is to knock three hundred off the $1300. The Extended Warranty for $950 is a widely quoted price on the Internet in Bernadi's and even at Curryhonda.com, the same co. where I bought the civic from. They did not sell it for cheap. The car I got for $800 or so over invoice, they did not sell it for cheap either.
I do not have leverage at this point. I have already bought the car. All I can do is to walk out leaving them the $500 deposit.
Another thing I can do is to withold a good reference for them, if that matters.
I got a referral to Curryhonda just through this column.
Manny And many thanks. I should have discussed this first in this column thoroughly before I moved. But I was in a hurry, thinking to get it ready for Thanksgiving.
2025 Toyota Crown Signia Hybrid, 2022 Ram 2500 Laramie 6.4 Hemi, 2007 Mazda MX-5 Miata PRHT
BTW, congrats on your new Civic. I purchased an LX sedan in silver about 5 or 6 weeks ago and I LOVE it!
A lot of stores like to push aftermarket systems. I detest them since they usually end up causing problems sooner or later.
I will check into it right the way, but since they did the installation already. I mean the Lojack is in the car. I wonder if I could get out of it.
Also it is done verbally, I signed no contract and saw nothing on paper. I would probably keep the Lojack if it is not $1300. It is just too much of a rip off.
Thanks again, Manny
Fantastic deal. The best part was that you got out intact after the deal. They did not manage to ink you with financial schemes and after market add ons.
I thought that I had a good deal with a Civic EX MT with Navi paying $800 over invoice without dealer financing. But they socked it to me with a Lojack with passive alarm for $1300. I have not picked up the car yet.
I want to see if I can get it for less still. But looks like they have gotten me. Manny
You outsmarted yourself. You were so fixated on paying as little for the car as possible that you bought a Lojack without looking into it as much as maybe you should have.
You did this on your own, all by yourself. You simply paid the retail price for a Lojack system. You did NOT get ripped off. Don't let this taint what otherwise seems to be a great experience for you!
Try to just get over it!
2025 Toyota Crown Signia Hybrid, 2022 Ram 2500 Laramie 6.4 Hemi, 2007 Mazda MX-5 Miata PRHT
Don't get me wrong; I still think the Civic is a great car, and maybe it deserves the award.
This applies to solicited sales only. Someone comes to your house and sells you a Kirby or a kitchen remodel job.
Or you buy a timeshare where you were invited to hear a sales pitch.
Not on cars. No three day cooling off period.
There is a consumer protection law governing all written contacts.
Further more there is a law requiring contracts to be written to be enforcible. This is for contracts involving over $250 of transaction in New York State.
In the case of the Lojack installed, there may be a removal fee.
I have given written notification for Curryhonda to discontinue the contract. It is less than 48 hours since I asked the Lojack to be installed.
I will post to you all what happens next.
Thank you all. And thanks for your concern my health, Iselhondas.
Manny
For others I would recommend not buying the alarm unless you really must have a glass sensor to sleep well at night. It's kinda of a waste but at least you get to know if someone cracked your window.
Alex
Cars most often are stolen if they have a remote starter installed. Cars that have transponder based systems need one of the keys that start the vehicle to be placed in a bypass which reads the code of the key. If you have a starter installed (every shop can tell you if your car has this type of system, most after model year 97' do), have an extra key made and cut the key leaving basically the head only.
Lojack is a waste, I wonder how many GM dealers push Lojack with a vehicle Onstar equipped.
Ask them to remove it. Dealers pull bait and switches, you can see those stories on another forum.
I think in this situation you got caught up in the deal and simply agreed to the extras. Once they saw you were game they piled them on, turning essentially a good deal into extras that are not needed, in addition you'll recoup only a few $$$ for these once you sell it.
The "our installer came early" bit gets old and would have set me off as an insult.
2006 Civic Coupe EX, MT, Alarm, Wheel Locks, and Door Guards
17,488 for vehicle
400 for alarm
19,673 out the door
I love the car so I am not that concerned, but I would like to have an idea of what kind of deal I got.
thanks
18,550
57 for wheel locks
About 130 in assorted other fees/documentation.
Great price for my trade
One concern was Honda's APR, 7.2%. My credit is spotless. Am I getting raked with the loan?
You got a 'deal', and to check if it is good or bad,look up the Edmunds True Market for the Vehicle. And compare it with you price to be paid. The wheel locks and door guards are 'add ons' by the dealer to pad your bill.
Other than the car, you got caught basically buying useless high margin stuff that is marked up to 1000 percent, and the value of these stuffs are in doubt.
$400 for an alarm is too much for something that can be done for $100-$200.
I empathize with you. We buy cars now and then, in a lifetime we buy a few cars at most. We play with the pros.
In an uneven playing field we often are the losers.
I bought a Civic 06 Mt and Nav. with $800 over invoice. While overjoyed, I got rolled over with dealer 'add ons' when I go to the next room to see the finance guy. Now a good deal for the car is cancelled by the bad deal with the add ons.
Thanks for sharing.
Manny
I made a search in these Edmund's Discussions and discovered a young woman buying a Hyundai Sonata 06 Dealer
Car Care Deal close to $2000. I had considered a Hyundai Sonata myself before I bought the 06 Civic.
The Sonata comes with a 5 year bumper to bumper warranty and ten year warranty for the power train from Hyundai.
This young woman was sold an redundant warranty. Same as an GPS tracked Onstar equipped car is being sold a Lojack.
One man's gain is another woman's loss.
Manny
I have already e mailed them yesterday at 4 p.m. Since I am supposed to give them notice within 72 hours, I made sure that I sent it within that time frame.
I asked the dealership to call me. They never did up to now. Before yesterday, they called me very often to make sure I am getting all the paper work ready, and the insurance ready to complete the transaction. And to pick up the car.
All of a sudden, all is quiet on the Western Front. No phone call from the dealer at all.
Everyone should have a good 'Thanksgiving'. So I will call tomorrow. My pick up date is next Wednesday anyway.
It is the principle of the thing. I didnot come this far and blown away in the end.
Manny
Twomotor
Who wants a car without air conditioning?
Twomotor
After I negotiated a price on a 2006 Civic, I went home and applied for an auto loan through AAA. I was directed to Capitol One and received an email one minute after I applied for a 5.6% rate. They send you a check that is good up to the approved amount. If you want the check fed exed, next day delivery, it costs $15 for the delivery. You take the check to the dealer, fill in the amount, and signing the check pays for the car and binds the loan contract (no more loan papers to sign). Taking delivery of the check doesn't bind you - you can just tear it up.
I asked the dealer if he could match the interest rate - he couldn't. The dealer in a last gasp effort to sow doubt said to make sure that I had "gap insurance" to cover the difference between the total collision value and the payments (example - buy car for $19,000 - leave lot and total it. Insurance pays $17,000) I didn't want the gap coverage. If I want to protect against that, I'll just get ahead by making 3-4 payments ahead. You basically pay almost as much for that gap coverage as you would pay of the car were totaled. Besides, if this occurs, you roll the "gap" into a new loan anyway.
I also wanted an extended warranty. I know that some people advise against it. To me, it's insurance. I've had some repair experiences that cause me to want this. Anyway, I looked online and saw that www.collegehillshonda.com and other dealers sell these warranties online. The price there was about $500 lower that three local dealers quoted me. There is no finance charge on these warranties - you can pay all at once or stretch the payments out. The dealer matched the price.
Finally, I wanted a couple of accessories. I brought the online price to the parts department - they matched it.
I hope this helps someone out.
Brilliant move. I admire you especially for the turning down of the gap insurance. That is not necessary if you plan to keep the car for a long time. And if you are a decent driver.
The extended warranty is worth it, if it is bought for a reasonable price.
One nasty repair job after the car ages and the manufacturer's warranty expires is worth the extended warranty. I know. I kept my last car for 13 years. Things start to get expensive to repair after five years.
After four years I had to repair my airconditioner for a thousand dollars. After 13 years I abandoned the car. Partially I let needed repairs gathering up for years because of no extended warranty.
That AAA loan was a sharp move. This let you skip all the financial schemes that the dealer has been hatching.
The online price for the acessories were a good move.
A perfect chess game.
I wish I had read this before. Tell me, in your search online, did you ever come across pricing for Lojack?
They say that there are suckers born every day, but there are smart guys like you that do not need to learn from 'mistakes made' too.
Yours truly, Manny