What a tough purchase this has been. I'm still trying to nail down a EXL 4 cal sedan before end of the month and I had been quoted $24,941 prior to the $500 loyalty rebate. So I'm trying to get that dealer to confirm the price with the loyalty rebate but still not heard back from him. Another dealer talked straight to me (or so he says) and said you only get the $1000 dealer cash if you finance locally and the $500 loyalty if you finance with Honda. All of my quotes were started before the loyalty but none stipulated non-Honda financing. Anyway, the last dealer I talked to has my car on his lot but cannot do the $500 loyalty and get to the $24,941 number. That works out to $1709 under invoice.
Too many mid-month options confusing things and some earlier quotes from this month may be taken off the table. I'll post how things work out. I'm trying to do my original deal at $24,941 AND the $500 loyalty.
Thank you everyone especially @brian125 for their help!
Just closed on a 2014 Accord Sport CVT in WOP for 22,795 OTD in Philly at Sloane Honda. Financed at 0.9% APR for 36 months.
21,300 sales price - $500 loyalty = $20,800 for the car
That dealership is lying to you. You can combine 0.9% and $500 loyalty. You can either take that or the $1000 dealer cash. It did however take me a week or two of emailing dealers to secure my price. I believe Sussman and Conicelli are also willing to play.
Tom is right dealers should let you combine those 2 offers. Unfortunately as you see some dealers will lie, twist the truths on these offers.. Like I have posted earlier some dealers willingness to give up all there incentive money is entirely up to each dealership. Very common with Honda dealers.
My suggestion is : If your in a area where the market can't get you 1700 below what are your options.
1- If you want the vehicle this month lower your asking price to make deal.. A target price of 1200 to 2k plus is the numbers to shoot for.
Thank you @brian125 and every one on this forum for your prompt feedback and helping others. @Brian125 , I am planning to buy a Honda Accord EX-L and I learnt from your previous comments the invoice price is $26650. You are mentioning to shoot for 2000 less than the invoice price, please help me if I understand it right.
26650 – 2000 = 24650 +TTL
OR
26650-750-2000 = 23900 +TTL
Also considering Honda Cash into play 24650-500 = 24150 +TTL or 23900-500 = 23400 +TTL
What should be my starting point?
Brian: I have learned a lots from all discussions on the post. I used your template on page 34 to contact Honda dealers around. So the best offer I got for Accord Sport with standard free accessories: 21150 + 0.9% financing + TTL.
Is that a good deal? Thanks for your comments!
@carscars4 said:
Thank you brian125 and every one on this forum for your prompt feedback and helping others.
Brian125 , I am planning to buy a Honda Accord EX-L and I learnt from your previous comments the invoice price is $26650. You are mentioning to shoot for 2000 less than the invoice price, please help me if I understand it right.
26650 – 2000 = 24650 +TTL
OR
26650-750-2000 = 23900 +TTL
Also considering Honda Cash into play 24650-500 = 24150 +TTL or 23900-500 = 23400 +TTL
What should be my starting point?
depending on your area , supply and demand I would start on the high side of your target price which is 2k. You could always lower your offer if all your targeted dealerships wont sell that cheap.
Invoice with dest/ charge included minus 2k is your target price to buy with dealerships. this price excludes tax, tags and doc fee charge. These three charges round out your OTd numbers
@calms said:
Brian: I have learned a lots from all discussions on the post. I used your template on page 34 to contact Honda dealers around. So the best offer I got for Accord Sport with standard free accessories: 21150 + 0.9% financing + TTL.
Is that a good deal? Thanks for your comments!
Invoice with dest/ charge= 23,225. Outside of the wheel locks, and splash guards what other accessories are added into car. What is your buying state ? what are this dealerships doc fee charge?
Without knowing the doc fee charge your deal right Now is 2075 below dealers invoice price. If you minus off dealers doc fee charge from the 2075 this represents your true buying number.
@brian125 said:
Without knowing the doc fee charge your deal right Now is 2075 below dealers invoice price. If you minus off dealers doc fee charge from the 2075 this represents your true buying number.
Hi, Brian:
I am in Portland area. The accessories are what you recommended. I need to check out doc fee and I guess it is around 200-300. According to 23225 -1700 = 21450, is it still good?
There is another offer 21750 + 10 year dealer power train warrant. Is it comparable to the first offer? Thanks!
@iamnot007 said:
Brian/other experts - I have a standing offer for an Accord EX-L with Nav (4 cyl) at about $25900 + title & tags with another $500 rebate applied as down payment. So total would be ~25400 (before TTL). I am close to pulling the trigger. What do you think?
I do have an approved 0% financing from Penfed. Debating whether I should forego the $500 incentive for the 0% APR. any suggestions?
Iamnot007 - I am in the market for a 4 cylinder EX-L with Nav also. Do you mind sharing what dealership you are working with? Thanks!
Invoice with dest/ charge= 23,225. Outside of the wheel locks, and splash guards what other accessories are added into car. What is your buying state ? what are this dealerships doc fee charge?
Without knowing the doc fee charge your deal right Now is 2075 below dealers invoice price. If you minus off dealers doc fee charge from the 2075 this represents your true buying number.
I have been starring at these numbers for far too long now. I am confused and my brain is running in circles. When you say Out The Door, does that mean, no money is due at signing other than registration and title transfer?? I just left a deal because of some funny business they were pulling(we can talk later if anyone cares) but, on top of that, they were charging me $579 at signing after they told me this is the price with no money down. I understand I am responsible for the registration fee and title transfer(below are the cost for PA,my state) but, what is the remaining $493 they are charging me?? Is that the doc fees that I should discount in my "-2000" offering? Is it typical to have to pay this much in fee's to "get out the door" at Invoice -2000-790 or should everything other than the below be included in the "Out the door Price" Is this their way of making some extra cash.
$579
-$36 registration fee.
-$50 title transfer
=$493??
Purchased 4 cylinder ex-l no nav today in Everett wa. Got 2k under invoice to 24775. Total OTD was 27.5k including title, tax, fees. Included accessories were splash guards, wheel locks and trunk tray.
@Brian125 Thank you for all your suggestions. I finally pulled the trigger and purchased today, please let me know if it is a good deal. I got drive out price of 26100 for Honda EX-L with Tint, Splash Guard, Wheel Locks and Cargo Tray.,
I have been starring at these numbers for far too long now. I am confused and my brain is running in circles. When you say Out The Door, does that mean, no money is due at signing other than registration and title transfer??
OTD Pricing consists of your States sales tax, DMV charges, and dealers doc fee charge. In some states there is a 10, or 12 dollar tire recycling fee or a Internet charge. But above rounds out the OTD pricing.
HERE IS WHAT YOU WILL FIND ON THE BILL of Sale if you finance the vehicle . A lease may be written up a little different depending on how your rolling the lease amount and charges into your deal
1- Agreed selling price
2- dealers adds destination charge
3- dealers Doc fee, or admin fee
4 dealer adds your states sales tax rate to the total
5-dealer adds on tags/ DMV charges
6-Incentives and rebates will get misused off this total unless dealer applies it as a down payment on your sale.
You guys who are new buyers please take my advice here You will thank me later.
When you go down to close your deal. you should have called your Ins. company and let them know what vehicle your buying and have the Vin number for them. Get all contact / fax numbers for the dealer so they could expedite your Ins. card and get you out of the dealership quicker. Pre approval on another loan is always best to have making dealers match or beat your rate instead of being subject to there rates. Right now Honda has good finance rates.. Bad credit folks your on your own with this one.
2nd- Bring a big note pad and pen. write down all the dealers numbers on it . Bring a calculator with you to check there numbers. Never rush your deal salesman will pull the wool over your eyes hoping your not paying attention with pricing. Adding last minute pricing onto the bill they never discussed with you.
When I look over the bill of sale any price I'm not familiar with I stop and ask the dealer to explain this charge. If its sounds like bs I let them know right then deal is off unless this charge is removed. Challenge everything that seems not right or off. Don't be afraid to open your mouth and question your dealer. Say no to anything they are selling in the back office. No, No ,NO, lol
If your closing your deal at the dealership and you have not found out what there doc fee or admin fee is prior to walking in that door then SHAME on you. If you educate yourself with the simple buying rules we speak about in here you will have a much easier time.
I cant keep on writing the same posts over and over so please go back and read thru the boards you will find so much valuable advice. If you double click on my name Brian125 you will come to my home page. click on my thousands of comments on buying techniques in Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, Bmw, etc.. you will learn how to make the best possible deal. I preach these things like a broken record in these forums over and over the past 14 years in here. . It works and you will save money.
Remember to post your deals after you purchase with YOUR State and Name of dealership.
Make sure if your looking for a target price or purchased you post the Agreed quote or selling price. DID that price included the destination charge of 790, what's your selling dealers doc fee charge .
These are the most important numbers we look at in this forum. This helps forum members looking to buy. It helps me answer your question in 1 post not 2 or 3 posts. Thank-you
This helps keep this Accord board moving faster then we all can make the best possible deal.
Ramble all you want, please, you are an educator and you should be heard! Thank you very much for all you do! I need to confirm I have this exactly right though because, if I do not, all of this becomes moot. The invoice on the Accord Sport is 23,225 and I am adding $400 because I want a remote start; total invoice $23,625. My target price should be $21,132(total invoice-$2000-dealer fees($493)) and the taxes will be rolled into the lease payment. With registration and title transfer equaling $86 and dealer fees being 493, $579 should be added on to the end? I can either roll this into the lease or pay cash and be out the door, correct? Are there any other fee's I should expect besides the junk they try to through in?
Always good to remember, paying cash for a vehicle rarely if ever results in the best deal. As has been stated, dealers often make as much or more profit on the back end products than they realize on the sale. Most finance managers believe they will not be as successful selling their products, extended service contracts, GAP, etc, if a customer is not going to finance.
Sales managers, who you actually negotiate with and not the nice person you are talking too, know this and they will develop their selling strategy accordingly. Those managers develop a unique strategey for every customer depending on how they view the customer.
A sales example, my wife and daughter recently visited a Honda dealer. My wife spoke mostly about the selling price. The sales manager developed a strategy for a low price $19,000 but low balled the trade by $3,000. Clearly this sales fella concluded he would have a sale using this strategy. He failed, even though he called my wife once he learned she had left the dealership and told her he would raise the trade value by $2,000.
Next day I visited a different Honda dealer. I confidently, confidence is the key as long as it is based on factual information, told this dealer I wanted to pay $19,000 and I wanted $17,500 for the trade. This sales manager must have concluded I would not be easily fooled. Without much discussion, we settled on $19,000 and $17,000 for the trade.
This $19,000 included the dreaded dealer documentation fee, which was $299. When I went to the finance office, the contract included this $299 amount as an addition to the $19,000. A quick comment to the F&I manager quickly corrected this "mistake." Always good to check the numbers to make sure thay are accurate. I have found F&I managers seem to often make similar mistakes.
Regarding financing, F&I managers realize they can make considerable profit from dealer reserve. To get this they qualify the buyer at a rate, often lower than the buyer can find elsewhere, and then raise the rate to make the sale. For example, a buyer qualifies for 2 percent. The dealer gets the buyer to agree to 3 percent.
Perhaps the 3 percent is the rate the buyer found. They dealer has no legal obligation to disclose this difference. In this example, the dealer gets a healthy portion of the 1 percent difference. That is dealer reserve.
Remember, as a buyer you have the right to ask the F&I manager for the rate for which you qualified. If the manager is reluctant, you can safely conclude there is some dealer reserve.
When buying a vehicle it is almost always a benefit to have the dealer believe the buyer will finance through them. Often, since the dealer believes it will have a good chance for back end profit, the dealer may sell the vehicle for a bit less than if the buyer has informed the dealer it is a cash deal.
Once the deal is settled, that is the time to disclose you are paying cash.
It is also often smart to offer the dealer an opportunity to provide financing. Dealers have various avenues for the financing and can often get a lower rate than a buyer can find. Nothing to lose. Example, last year bought a new vehicle. Told the dealer I had outside financing at 2.3 percent. The dealer came back with 1.8 percent.
@mossburgh said:
Ramble all you want, please, you are an educator and you should be heard! Thank you very much for all you do! I need to confirm I have this exactly right though because, if I do not, all of this becomes moot. The invoice on the Accord Sport is 23,225 and I am adding $400 because I want a remote start; total invoice $23,625. My target price should be $21,132(total invoice-$2000-dealer fees($493)) and the taxes will be rolled into the lease payment. With registration and title transfer equaling $86 and dealer fees being 493, $579 should be added on to the end? I can either roll this into the lease or pay cash and be out the door, correct? Are there any other fee's I should expect besides the junk they try to through in?
Let me correct you as we go.... 1st- you are correct on the price.
2nd- You will try to negotiate getting remote starter for a 400 dollar price from this dealership. Anything higher may not be worth it to buy.
3- Again your target price can range from 1200 to 2k plus below dealers invoice. this price range will have to be negotiated to see where your deal lies. Doc fee's are to be taken into consideration prior to your offer. Start at 2k and negotiate to get that number
4- I was unaware you are leasing. Call dealer to find out what the 493 charge is and 579. I have no clue.
5- If you are leasing roll everything into the lease with 36 equal payments tax and all. If you pay the sales tax up front with other charges and your car is totaled or stolen that money is lost if you paid it up front. I suggest you go into the ACCORD LEASING FORUM and ask for the correct LEASING NUMBERS ON YOUR VEHICLE And advice. You need to find out the vehicles money factor, residual value, and Cap cost to figure out your lease. Number of years, and mileage play a part in that number..................... good luck.
@brian125 said:
3- Again your target price can range from 1200 to 2k plus below dealers invoice. this price range will have to be negotiated to see where your deal lies. Doc fee's are to be taken into consideration prior to your offer. Start at 2k and negotiate to get that number
4- I was unaware you are leasing. Call dealer to find out what the 493 charge is and 579. I have no clue.
$493 has to be the dealer fee, $579 includes dealer fee + $86 for reg/title. So, even though we are subtracting that from the target price, we should not expect for it to be added back on later? I thought the whole point of subtracting it from the target price was to recoup it, or is this wrong?
Also, is the registration and title transfer and taxes the only misc, general car buying, expenses besides the random crap these dealers try to throw in? I asked multiple times if any other options were being added in and made them take the splash guards off and they said there were no other options included. The $579 charge they were asking for "today" must include the PA reg/title fee of $86 thus my assumption that the remaining $493 must be the dealer fee because the $579 "today" was the only random charge left unexplained.
Question on the below invoice price target - If I'm aiming at 2k below invoice as a great price, is this inclusive of, say, the $1000 incentive for financing with Honda, or should I expect that to reduce my price further? So if in another scenario, I can get 1200 lease cash and a 500 grad discount I should then be aiming for $2700 below invoice in combination with those?
My dealer says the $1000 is for non-financing deals and the $500 is only if you finance with Honda. So the two are separate deals and you can't have either.
In my area (Pennsylvania) the dealers are taking all the deals into play and coming up around $2000 under invoice on an EX-L sedan. I have a deal on the table (which I'm waiting for the dealer to locate my color and write the deal up). I'd love to hear if you have worked the rebates on top of the $2000 under pricing.
I guess you could look at Honda's rebates and incentives in different ways. There are 2 type of buyers here
The 1st buyers Objective: getting 2k below invoice would make a great price that he/ she wants. And should be easier to achieve with dealer backed incentives. How dealers arrive at getting to that 2k number don't concern them. This buyer feels its a very good price for this time of the year.. Whether dealer gets assistance from his company or not....... You met your target price.
Another scenario is: 2nd buyer; How the more savvy buyer looks at it .
Dealer is giving you 1000 or more off vehicle in company rebates/ incentives.. Buyer #2 wants to see how many dealers will dig into there pockets to give deals like prior months with no help from Honda. Shooting for a deal of 2700 below invoice.
This takes work and you would need to get many dealerships involved in the price wars. pitting one dealer against the next. Or be in the states where Accord pricing is a lot better than the rest.
I'm all for Buyer # 2........... but most forum members in here should be happy with trying to get 2k off.
Hi all,
I have a question. So, I got the selling price down to about $2,000 below the invoice. The question I have is that I am being told I can only use one of the two rebates that I am qualified for Is this what everyone is being told too? I qualify for both loyalty rebate as well as conquest rebate. Thank you for your help.
You can view the incentives and rebates thru the Edmunds home page .
What are the 2 rebates? read all incentives given by Honda to see which ones apply. Ones that can't be combined will tell you at the bottom of the offer .
@brian125 said:
You can view the incentives and rebates thru the Edmunds home page .
What are the 2 rebates? read all incentives given by Honda to see which ones apply. Ones that can't be combined will tell you at the bottom of the offer .
The two are Loyalty Bonus Cash, and Conquest Bonus Cash. According to Edmunds, I should be able to use both and use them as down payment.
Requirements and Restrictions:
•Dealer Cash is available towards retail purchase. Dealer Cash cannot be combined with APR or Lease offers financed through Honda Financial Services. Can be combined with available College Graduate or Military Appreciation offers.
Requirements and Restrictions:
•Competitor Conquest Bonus Cash is available towards leasing or retail purchase to current owner of a 2004 or newer Audi, BMW, Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, Chrysler, Dodge, Fiat, Ford, GMC, Hummer, Hyundai, Infiniti, Jaguar, Jeep, Kia, Rover, Lexus, Lincoln, Mazda, Mercedes-Benz, Mini, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Porsche, Ram, Saab, Scion, Smart, Subaru, Suzuki, Toyota, Volkswagen, or Volvo vehicle. Bonus must be used towards the cap cost reduction. If used towards lease, contracts must be for a minimum of 24 month term and cannot be combined with Zero Due leases. Trade-in is not required and Bonus Cash can be transferred to members residing within the same household. Vehicle must be financed through Honda Financial Services.
Requirements and Restrictions:
•Loyalty Bonus Cash is available towards leasing or retail purchase to current owner of a 2004 or newer Honda vehicle. Bonus must be used towards the cap cost reduction. If used towards lease, contracts must be for a minimum of 24 month term. Trade-in is not required and Bonus Cash can be transferred to members residing within the same household. Vehicle must be financed through Honda Financial Services.
@brian125 For the Accord EX-L C4, Is the OTD $26200 good enough(the car price is $24400, with 166 doc fees, 225 license/title)? The dealer told me I can not use the 0.9% Apr since I applied the $1000 dealer cash, so it could be higher depending on my credit score.
Surprising beginning of month deal on the table for the Accord Sport with remote start for 22,100+595 acquisition, 133 doc fee, 138 license/title, 283 1st payment, plus tax. Think I am going to go for it!
@brian125 Thank you Brian! I was waiting online to wait for your confirmation! Your posts really helped me a lot.
When I do the financing, is there any space that I can negotiate? My favor color is coming this Friday, and I will go this Saturday. Do I need to do the credit application beforehead as they suggested?
Sorry that this will be my first car and I got so much questions...
@rainering said:
Sorry that this will be my first car and I got so much questions...
dealer will run a credit check and your score will dictate the APR your going to receive from dealer.. If you feel your score is below 600 I would get outside credit approval as back up.. Apply online to Pen Fed credit union its only 25 dollars to join if you are a non member of service or civil servant. Use this approval as your negotiating tool if dealer does not give you there best rate..
The best way to negotiate any car deal is add the destination charge of 790 onto your target price. Let each dealership know that your price already includes the dest/ charge.
Negotiating A deal this way leaves no mis understanding between you and dealerships. Alot of dealers are hoping you don't catch this charge thinking you think its included in the deal already. To your surprise is when your signing the buyers order, or bill of sale and the numbers are off 790 in favor of the dealer..
Comments
What a tough purchase this has been. I'm still trying to nail down a EXL 4 cal sedan before end of the month and I had been quoted $24,941 prior to the $500 loyalty rebate. So I'm trying to get that dealer to confirm the price with the loyalty rebate but still not heard back from him. Another dealer talked straight to me (or so he says) and said you only get the $1000 dealer cash if you finance locally and the $500 loyalty if you finance with Honda. All of my quotes were started before the loyalty but none stipulated non-Honda financing. Anyway, the last dealer I talked to has my car on his lot but cannot do the $500 loyalty and get to the $24,941 number. That works out to $1709 under invoice.
Too many mid-month options confusing things and some earlier quotes from this month may be taken off the table. I'll post how things work out. I'm trying to do my original deal at $24,941 AND the $500 loyalty.
Thank you everyone especially @brian125 for their help!
Just closed on a 2014 Accord Sport CVT in WOP for 22,795 OTD in Philly at Sloane Honda. Financed at 0.9% APR for 36 months.
21,300 sales price - $500 loyalty = $20,800 for the car
"tom9thgen" Did you receive the loyalty and Honda .9% financing? My dealer is saying it is not available.
That dealership is lying to you. You can combine 0.9% and $500 loyalty. You can either take that or the $1000 dealer cash. It did however take me a week or two of emailing dealers to secure my price. I believe Sussman and Conicelli are also willing to play.
Tom is right dealers should let you combine those 2 offers. Unfortunately as you see some dealers will lie, twist the truths on these offers.. Like I have posted earlier some dealers willingness to give up all there incentive money is entirely up to each dealership. Very common with Honda dealers.
My suggestion is : If your in a area where the market can't get you 1700 below what are your options.
1- If you want the vehicle this month lower your asking price to make deal.. A target price of 1200 to 2k plus is the numbers to shoot for.
2- Wait another month
3- Broaden your search with boarding states.
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
Thank you @brian125 and every one on this forum for your prompt feedback and helping others.
@Brian125 , I am planning to buy a Honda Accord EX-L and I learnt from your previous comments the invoice price is $26650. You are mentioning to shoot for 2000 less than the invoice price, please help me if I understand it right.
26650 – 2000 = 24650 +TTL
OR
26650-750-2000 = 23900 +TTL
Also considering Honda Cash into play 24650-500 = 24150 +TTL or 23900-500 = 23400 +TTL
What should be my starting point?
Brian: I have learned a lots from all discussions on the post. I used your template on page 34 to contact Honda dealers around. So the best offer I got for Accord Sport with standard free accessories: 21150 + 0.9% financing + TTL.
Is that a good deal? Thanks for your comments!
depending on your area , supply and demand I would start on the high side of your target price which is 2k. You could always lower your offer if all your targeted dealerships wont sell that cheap.
Invoice with dest/ charge included minus 2k is your target price to buy with dealerships. this price excludes tax, tags and doc fee charge. These three charges round out your OTd numbers
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
Invoice with dest/ charge= 23,225. Outside of the wheel locks, and splash guards what other accessories are added into car. What is your buying state ? what are this dealerships doc fee charge?
Without knowing the doc fee charge your deal right Now is 2075 below dealers invoice price. If you minus off dealers doc fee charge from the 2075 this represents your true buying number.
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
Hi, Brian:
I am in Portland area. The accessories are what you recommended. I need to check out doc fee and I guess it is around 200-300. According to 23225 -1700 = 21450, is it still good?
There is another offer 21750 + 10 year dealer power train warrant. Is it comparable to the first offer? Thanks!
Just bought a 2014 Accord EX CVT Coupe. OTD was 23646. 22000 was the agreed price. Got it from Gillman Honda in San Antonio, TX. Good?
Yes you have good deals on the table
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
Iamnot007 - I am in the market for a 4 cylinder EX-L with Nav also. Do you mind sharing what dealership you are working with? Thanks!
Invoice with dest/ charge= 23,225. Outside of the wheel locks, and splash guards what other accessories are added into car. What is your buying state ? what are this dealerships doc fee charge?
Without knowing the doc fee charge your deal right Now is 2075 below dealers invoice price. If you minus off dealers doc fee charge from the 2075 this represents your true buying number.
I have been starring at these numbers for far too long now. I am confused and my brain is running in circles. When you say Out The Door, does that mean, no money is due at signing other than registration and title transfer?? I just left a deal because of some funny business they were pulling(we can talk later if anyone cares) but, on top of that, they were charging me $579 at signing after they told me this is the price with no money down. I understand I am responsible for the registration fee and title transfer(below are the cost for PA,my state) but, what is the remaining $493 they are charging me?? Is that the doc fees that I should discount in my "-2000" offering? Is it typical to have to pay this much in fee's to "get out the door" at Invoice -2000-790 or should everything other than the below be included in the "Out the door Price" Is this their way of making some extra cash.
$579
-$36 registration fee.
-$50 title transfer
=$493??
Purchased 4 cylinder ex-l no nav today in Everett wa. Got 2k under invoice to 24775. Total OTD was 27.5k including title, tax, fees. Included accessories were splash guards, wheel locks and trunk tray.
@Brian125 Thank you for all your suggestions. I finally pulled the trigger and purchased today, please let me know if it is a good deal. I got drive out price of 26100 for Honda EX-L with Tint, Splash Guard, Wheel Locks and Cargo Tray.,
Brian,
Didi you mean my offers? If so, I will pull my trigger.
yes..... your doc fee charge if only 200 or so still puts you in a good buying range.
make the deal.
@kolla... good job enjoy your new ride...
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
@mossburgh said,
I have been starring at these numbers for far too long now. I am confused and my brain is running in circles. When you say Out The Door, does that mean, no money is due at signing other than registration and title transfer??
OTD Pricing consists of your States sales tax, DMV charges, and dealers doc fee charge. In some states there is a 10, or 12 dollar tire recycling fee or a Internet charge. But above rounds out the OTD pricing.
HERE IS WHAT YOU WILL FIND ON THE BILL of Sale if you finance the vehicle . A lease may be written up a little different depending on how your rolling the lease amount and charges into your deal
1- Agreed selling price
2- dealers adds destination charge
3- dealers Doc fee, or admin fee
4 dealer adds your states sales tax rate to the total
5-dealer adds on tags/ DMV charges
6-Incentives and rebates will get misused off this total unless dealer applies it as a down payment on your sale.
You guys who are new buyers please take my advice here You will thank me later.
When you go down to close your deal. you should have called your Ins. company and let them know what vehicle your buying and have the Vin number for them. Get all contact / fax numbers for the dealer so they could expedite your Ins. card and get you out of the dealership quicker. Pre approval on another loan is always best to have making dealers match or beat your rate instead of being subject to there rates. Right now Honda has good finance rates.. Bad credit folks your on your own with this one.
2nd- Bring a big note pad and pen. write down all the dealers numbers on it . Bring a calculator with you to check there numbers. Never rush your deal salesman will pull the wool over your eyes hoping your not paying attention with pricing. Adding last minute pricing onto the bill they never discussed with you.
When I look over the bill of sale any price I'm not familiar with I stop and ask the dealer to explain this charge. If its sounds like bs I let them know right then deal is off unless this charge is removed. Challenge everything that seems not right or off. Don't be afraid to open your mouth and question your dealer. Say no to anything they are selling in the back office. No, No ,NO, lol
If your closing your deal at the dealership and you have not found out what there doc fee or admin fee is prior to walking in that door then SHAME on you. If you educate yourself with the simple buying rules we speak about in here you will have a much easier time.
I cant keep on writing the same posts over and over so please go back and read thru the boards you will find so much valuable advice. If you double click on my name Brian125 you will come to my home page. click on my thousands of comments on buying techniques in Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, Bmw, etc.. you will learn how to make the best possible deal. I preach these things like a broken record in these forums over and over the past 14 years in here. . It works and you will save money.
Remember to post your deals after you purchase with YOUR State and Name of dealership.
Make sure if your looking for a target price or purchased you post the Agreed quote or selling price. DID that price included the destination charge of 790, what's your selling dealers doc fee charge .
These are the most important numbers we look at in this forum. This helps forum members looking to buy. It helps me answer your question in 1 post not 2 or 3 posts. Thank-you
This helps keep this Accord board moving faster then we all can make the best possible deal.
Thanks for letting me ramble.
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
Ramble all you want, please, you are an educator and you should be heard! Thank you very much for all you do! I need to confirm I have this exactly right though because, if I do not, all of this becomes moot. The invoice on the Accord Sport is 23,225 and I am adding $400 because I want a remote start; total invoice $23,625. My target price should be $21,132(total invoice-$2000-dealer fees($493)) and the taxes will be rolled into the lease payment. With registration and title transfer equaling $86 and dealer fees being 493, $579 should be added on to the end? I can either roll this into the lease or pay cash and be out the door, correct? Are there any other fee's I should expect besides the junk they try to through in?
Always good to remember, paying cash for a vehicle rarely if ever results in the best deal. As has been stated, dealers often make as much or more profit on the back end products than they realize on the sale. Most finance managers believe they will not be as successful selling their products, extended service contracts, GAP, etc, if a customer is not going to finance.
Sales managers, who you actually negotiate with and not the nice person you are talking too, know this and they will develop their selling strategy accordingly. Those managers develop a unique strategey for every customer depending on how they view the customer.
A sales example, my wife and daughter recently visited a Honda dealer. My wife spoke mostly about the selling price. The sales manager developed a strategy for a low price $19,000 but low balled the trade by $3,000. Clearly this sales fella concluded he would have a sale using this strategy. He failed, even though he called my wife once he learned she had left the dealership and told her he would raise the trade value by $2,000.
Next day I visited a different Honda dealer. I confidently, confidence is the key as long as it is based on factual information, told this dealer I wanted to pay $19,000 and I wanted $17,500 for the trade. This sales manager must have concluded I would not be easily fooled. Without much discussion, we settled on $19,000 and $17,000 for the trade.
This $19,000 included the dreaded dealer documentation fee, which was $299. When I went to the finance office, the contract included this $299 amount as an addition to the $19,000. A quick comment to the F&I manager quickly corrected this "mistake." Always good to check the numbers to make sure thay are accurate. I have found F&I managers seem to often make similar mistakes.
Regarding financing, F&I managers realize they can make considerable profit from dealer reserve. To get this they qualify the buyer at a rate, often lower than the buyer can find elsewhere, and then raise the rate to make the sale. For example, a buyer qualifies for 2 percent. The dealer gets the buyer to agree to 3 percent.
Perhaps the 3 percent is the rate the buyer found. They dealer has no legal obligation to disclose this difference. In this example, the dealer gets a healthy portion of the 1 percent difference. That is dealer reserve.
Remember, as a buyer you have the right to ask the F&I manager for the rate for which you qualified. If the manager is reluctant, you can safely conclude there is some dealer reserve.
When buying a vehicle it is almost always a benefit to have the dealer believe the buyer will finance through them. Often, since the dealer believes it will have a good chance for back end profit, the dealer may sell the vehicle for a bit less than if the buyer has informed the dealer it is a cash deal.
Once the deal is settled, that is the time to disclose you are paying cash.
It is also often smart to offer the dealer an opportunity to provide financing. Dealers have various avenues for the financing and can often get a lower rate than a buyer can find. Nothing to lose. Example, last year bought a new vehicle. Told the dealer I had outside financing at 2.3 percent. The dealer came back with 1.8 percent.
ken,
Very well written post and explained..
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
Let me correct you as we go.... 1st- you are correct on the price.
2nd- You will try to negotiate getting remote starter for a 400 dollar price from this dealership. Anything higher may not be worth it to buy.
3- Again your target price can range from 1200 to 2k plus below dealers invoice. this price range will have to be negotiated to see where your deal lies. Doc fee's are to be taken into consideration prior to your offer. Start at 2k and negotiate to get that number
4- I was unaware you are leasing. Call dealer to find out what the 493 charge is and 579. I have no clue.
5- If you are leasing roll everything into the lease with 36 equal payments tax and all. If you pay the sales tax up front with other charges and your car is totaled or stolen that money is lost if you paid it up front. I suggest you go into the ACCORD LEASING FORUM and ask for the correct LEASING NUMBERS ON YOUR VEHICLE And advice. You need to find out the vehicles money factor, residual value, and Cap cost to figure out your lease. Number of years, and mileage play a part in that number..................... good luck.
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
4- I was unaware you are leasing. Call dealer to find out what the 493 charge is and 579. I have no clue.
$493 has to be the dealer fee, $579 includes dealer fee + $86 for reg/title. So, even though we are subtracting that from the target price, we should not expect for it to be added back on later? I thought the whole point of subtracting it from the target price was to recoup it, or is this wrong?
Also, is the registration and title transfer and taxes the only misc, general car buying, expenses besides the random crap these dealers try to throw in? I asked multiple times if any other options were being added in and made them take the splash guards off and they said there were no other options included. The $579 charge they were asking for "today" must include the PA reg/title fee of $86 thus my assumption that the remaining $493 must be the dealer fee because the $579 "today" was the only random charge left unexplained.
There is a bank or a inception fee of 595 when you lease .. The leasing forum will be able to answer all your questions. post them in there.
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
Found it in another post you made in another forum. This is exactly what I was looking for!
"Below is the Accord sport invoice price w/ dest charge of 790. Your target price to buy is 2k below dealers invoice.
23,225 minus 2k=.................. 21,225 On this price you need to add dealers doc fee charge, plus taxes and tags for your OTD price.
For about 22,950 with taxes and tags included you could walk out with this model. I calculated this on 6% sales tax."
Question on the below invoice price target - If I'm aiming at 2k below invoice as a great price, is this inclusive of, say, the $1000 incentive for financing with Honda, or should I expect that to reduce my price further? So if in another scenario, I can get 1200 lease cash and a 500 grad discount I should then be aiming for $2700 below invoice in combination with those?
I'm stacking them on my deal 2000 off invoice -1500 rebates. Rebates come from Honda Corporate and should come off selling price.
My dealer says the $1000 is for non-financing deals and the $500 is only if you finance with Honda. So the two are separate deals and you can't have either.
In my area (Pennsylvania) the dealers are taking all the deals into play and coming up around $2000 under invoice on an EX-L sedan. I have a deal on the table (which I'm waiting for the dealer to locate my color and write the deal up). I'd love to hear if you have worked the rebates on top of the $2000 under pricing.
I guess you could look at Honda's rebates and incentives in different ways. There are 2 type of buyers here
The 1st buyers Objective: getting 2k below invoice would make a great price that he/ she wants. And should be easier to achieve with dealer backed incentives. How dealers arrive at getting to that 2k number don't concern them. This buyer feels its a very good price for this time of the year.. Whether dealer gets assistance from his company or not....... You met your target price.
Another scenario is: 2nd buyer; How the more savvy buyer looks at it .
Dealer is giving you 1000 or more off vehicle in company rebates/ incentives.. Buyer #2 wants to see how many dealers will dig into there pockets to give deals like prior months with no help from Honda. Shooting for a deal of 2700 below invoice.
This takes work and you would need to get many dealerships involved in the price wars. pitting one dealer against the next. Or be in the states where Accord pricing is a lot better than the rest.
I'm all for Buyer # 2........... but most forum members in here should be happy with trying to get 2k off.
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
Hi all,
I have a question. So, I got the selling price down to about $2,000 below the invoice. The question I have is that I am being told I can only use one of the two rebates that I am qualified for Is this what everyone is being told too? I qualify for both loyalty rebate as well as conquest rebate. Thank you for your help.
You can view the incentives and rebates thru the Edmunds home page .
What are the 2 rebates? read all incentives given by Honda to see which ones apply. Ones that can't be combined will tell you at the bottom of the offer .
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
The two are Loyalty Bonus Cash, and Conquest Bonus Cash. According to Edmunds, I should be able to use both and use them as down payment.
Dealer Cash
Requirements and Restrictions:
•Dealer Cash is available towards retail purchase. Dealer Cash cannot be combined with APR or Lease offers financed through Honda Financial Services. Can be combined with available College Graduate or Military Appreciation offers.
Dealer Cash
Start
End
$1,000 07/08/2014 09/02/2014
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
Conquest Bonus $ Offer
Requirements and Restrictions:
•Competitor Conquest Bonus Cash is available towards leasing or retail purchase to current owner of a 2004 or newer Audi, BMW, Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, Chrysler, Dodge, Fiat, Ford, GMC, Hummer, Hyundai, Infiniti, Jaguar, Jeep, Kia, Rover, Lexus, Lincoln, Mazda, Mercedes-Benz, Mini, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Porsche, Ram, Saab, Scion, Smart, Subaru, Suzuki, Toyota, Volkswagen, or Volvo vehicle. Bonus must be used towards the cap cost reduction. If used towards lease, contracts must be for a minimum of 24 month term and cannot be combined with Zero Due leases. Trade-in is not required and Bonus Cash can be transferred to members residing within the same household. Vehicle must be financed through Honda Financial Services.
Bonus $ Offer
Type
Start
End
$500 Conquest 07/22/2014 09/30/2014
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
Loyalty $ Offer
Requirements and Restrictions:
•Loyalty Bonus Cash is available towards leasing or retail purchase to current owner of a 2004 or newer Honda vehicle. Bonus must be used towards the cap cost reduction. If used towards lease, contracts must be for a minimum of 24 month term. Trade-in is not required and Bonus Cash can be transferred to members residing within the same household. Vehicle must be financed through Honda Financial Services.
Bonus $ Offer
Type
Start
End
$500 Loyalty 07/22/2014 09/30/2014
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
which ones apply to you.
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
Finance through Honda not using special financing and dealer cash and conquest will both apply. Refinance later.
I need to buy a 2014 Honda Accord EX-L. Paying cash. What should I offer?
If the 2014s are gone...what should I offer for a 2015?
Thank you very much!
2015 models are not out yet. There are still plenty of 2014 models on lots.
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
So is this how it is roughly supposed to work on a 2014 Accord EX-L without NAV?
Invoice + destination fee + doc fee - $2000 = price + TTL
$25860 + $790 + $250 - $2000 = $24,900 + TTL
Seems like some people are getting much better price. What am I missing here?
When you say 2000 below invoice, does this price EXCLUDE the destination and doc fees as well?
Or are you guys saying you can go $1500-$2000 below invoice....INCLUDING the destination fee and doc fee?
Thanks so much.
@brian125 For the Accord EX-L C4, Is the OTD $26200 good enough(the car price is $24400, with 166 doc fees, 225 license/title)? The dealer told me I can not use the 0.9% Apr since I applied the $1000 dealer cash, so it could be higher depending on my credit score.
Surprising beginning of month deal on the table for the Accord Sport with remote start for 22,100+595 acquisition, 133 doc fee, 138 license/title, 283 1st payment, plus tax. Think I am going to go for it!
rainering
yes
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
@brian125 Thank you Brian! I was waiting online to wait for your confirmation! Your posts really helped me a lot.
When I do the financing, is there any space that I can negotiate? My favor color is coming this Friday, and I will go this Saturday. Do I need to do the credit application beforehead as they suggested?
Sorry that this will be my first car and I got so much questions...
After doing research with old posts, my guess is included.
Thank you for posting the offers Brian! Just realized I qualify for a conquest offer.
dealer will run a credit check and your score will dictate the APR your going to receive from dealer.. If you feel your score is below 600 I would get outside credit approval as back up.. Apply online to Pen Fed credit union its only 25 dollars to join if you are a non member of service or civil servant. Use this approval as your negotiating tool if dealer does not give you there best rate..
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
The best way to negotiate any car deal is add the destination charge of 790 onto your target price. Let each dealership know that your price already includes the dest/ charge.
Negotiating A deal this way leaves no mis understanding between you and dealerships. Alot of dealers are hoping you don't catch this charge thinking you think its included in the deal already. To your surprise is when your signing the buyers order, or bill of sale and the numbers are off 790 in favor of the dealer..
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE