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  • C13C13 Member Posts: 390
    That Alfa I saw must have been a 2600. I thought I remembered it as a 1600 but that doesn't seem to make sense.

    I guess I was never really aware of the 2600 before: a 6-cyl roadster, larger and more graceful than the jaunty, little 4-cyl Giulia, Giulietta, Duetto, etc. It appears to be more in a sort of Jag XK class than, say, the MG / Triumph class.

    The one I saw seemed like a heck of a nice machine. They made a coupe too, which is cheaper. I tend to favor coupes for most driving.

    Anybody know this model?
  • ralph124cralph124c Member Posts: 36
    Mr. Shiftright-need your advice! I just saw a mint 1991 PEUGEOT 405 at a local dealer. 51,000 miles, no rust dents, looks like new! Dealer hads put on the following: new brake pads all around, new muffler and pipe, 4 new all-season tires. he is asking $6,000, and will continue to service the car 9former Peugeot dealer, claims parts are no problem to get). My concerns are obviously-is the ZF? automatic transmission prone to fail? and how about electrical (alternator, etc.). Everything seemed OK on the test ride. Is this something I shouild pass up? Its a great little car, with all-leather interior and every option.
    Hope to hear from you!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Hi Ralph---the problem with this deal is not so much the car, but the price. He is asking three times the car's value.

    Why are Peugeot's so cheap? Because nobody wants them. Why don't they want them? Because of poor reputation and service. Are they really so bad? Some models are, some aren't, but all in all, the whole thing is a big risk.

    You'll never see your money out of this car...it's really worth $2,500 tops. And if the ZF trans fails, you can just throw the car away, because they need to be sent back to France for repair on an exchange basis...figure $2,000 plus just for that.


    ALFA 2600 -- Well, this is a difficult car to assess....it is attractive, but it's big and heavy and clumsy (a touring car, not a sports car), prone to rust and very expensive to repair. On top of that, many trim and body parts are awfully hard to find. I suppose if you could find a complete, perfect car at a rock bottom price, and you could live with the overweight problem, you'd be okay. I'd pay no more than $8,000 for a perfectly good sprint (not a show car, but a very clean #2) and no more than $12,000 for a neat and tidy Spyder. They come both as 2000 and 2600 (6 cylinder cars).

    Given how delightful and affordalbe the smaller Alfas of that era are, I find it personally difficult to have a good reason to own one of the bigger cars. What Alfa stands for (agility, grace, balance, reliability and good looks) are all compromised in the bigger 2000 and 2600, IMO.
  • vmanvman Member Posts: 103
    Hi Mr_S....Long time no chat. I was wondering if you have any pictures (or links) for Porsche 914. If I'm thinking of the right model, sort of an MG'esque little coupe. They were quite popular in the 70's in the states, but I haven't seen one for ages.
  • vmanvman Member Posts: 103
    I't occurred to me to do a search.....(duh!)

    If anyone's interested:

    http://www.914fan.net/
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Hi vman! Yeah, you still see the 914s in abundance out here in California, as well as in SCCA racing. I've had two of them, and was generally pretty satisfied. Kind of low on power, but a great handler, and once you got the hang of working on them, fairly reliable...I drove one quite extensively cross-country with no problems.
    Also certainly affordable today--the best one in the world is probably worth $6,000. And to dispel any myths, the car is Porsche-designed but with a VW engine...the transmission and front end, though, is right out of a 911, so the car has some pedigree, even if it is built to a low price.
  • vmanvman Member Posts: 103
    Thanks....as always! I just may have a new vision quest!
  • clintonjohnclintonjohn Member Posts: 99
    A friend of mine had a 914. Low on power, but it was fun to tool around in. When I went out to California, I also saw quite a few of them. Also saw the Thing, which I though was pretty cool in a funky sort of way. Never see those in the Midwest.
  • badgerpaulbadgerpaul Member Posts: 219
    That's because they rusted away to dust years ago.
  • ronlevronlev Member Posts: 3
    Has anyone a recollection of a car with the initials DKW. A room mate of mine had one back in the early 70's. It was mostly on the living room floor, but he was innovative and got it "runing". I believe it was from Belgium. It probably was new in the 50's or thereabouts. It was quite small yet boxy. I have never seen one before or since. Can anyone confirm this? Thanks, RL
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    DKW was a well-known German company, and they made cars for quite some time (and motorcycles years before that), 1928 through about 1966. They were bought by Auto Union in the 1930s, later sold to Mercedes in 1958 and to VW in 1965.

    DKW made all sorts of cars as well as engines for other companies (Audi, Saab) in its lifetime, but we in the US mostly remember them for those rather odd-looking 2-stroke minicars that your friend had.
  • jeijei Member Posts: 143
    As a very young kid in eastern Canada in the late '50s and early '60s, I remember these British models:
    The VANGUARD, a small sedan vaguely resembling a '55 Ford. A neighbor down the street had one. Its exhaust system rattled, sounding like a giant egg-beater.
    A HUMBER HAWK was a largish 4 door sedan with quad headlights. Don't remember if it had a 4 or 6 cylinder engine.
    The WOLSLEY sedan was a distant relative of the Austin.
    SUNBEAM sedans and coupes were made by the Rootes Group, and were similar to the HILLMAN series.
    What was the rear-engined Sunbeam model??
    One of my grandmothers had a couple of HILLMAN MINX sedans. They were like toy cars compared to the full-size Chevys & Pontiacs we had then.
    Ford sold the ANGLIA, in the early '60s which had a back-pitched rear window whose top was further out than the bottom, like some of the '63 to '65 US/Canadian Mercury Monterey models.
    The MORRIS MINOR, built in the '50s and very early '60s was a classic rounded design, built in 2- and 4-door sedans and wagons. Wagons were rare.
    Would enjoy additions to this list as well as specific models and years.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    The rear-engined Sunbeam was the Imp. There's actually one running round town here, but it's been given an electric motor of some sort and it looks like it was recently attacked by terrorists (successfully).

    British cars of this vintage are an odd-lot, ranging from the magnificent (Jaguar 120, 140, to the attractive and competent (MGA, Austin Healey, etc) all the way down to most of the cars on your list, which were, at best, basic transportation for a nation nearly bankrupt by war and bereft of much of its former empire.

    Of the whole lot, the Morris Minor still has a very loyal and avid following, and you see these cars undergoing restoration in the US, in spite of the only modest monetary value.

    Let's see, you may have forgotten the Austin-Siddley, Austin-Cambridge, MG Magnette, Triumph Mayflower, Triumph Herald, MOrris Oxford, Ford Zephyr, Austin Sheerline (I'm just spitting these out as the come to me, and may not have them all correct....) Oh, on the magnificent list, let us not forget the Austin /Morris Mini Cooper S !!

    Others I've forgotten in the British weirdo category?
  • jeijei Member Posts: 143
    If I remember correctly, the Triumph Herald's entire nose section was hinged at the front, and tilted up for servicing the way many large trucks' front ends do. No mere "bonnet" for the Herald. I had a Corgi Toy model with that feature. Mr. Shiftright, was this the model?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yes, I think so, also the Triumph Spitfire has this feature, and the jaguar XKE...quite handy, and god knows on a Triumph Herald you needed to be able to sit on the engine every now and then.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    There was a kid in our high school who had a Mini Cooper. Guys would laugh at it until they took a terrifying ride with him!

    Jesus, how that car could corner!! And fast?

    I'm not sure what kind of an engine it had but the guy who owned it said it was the hot version.

    And...hot it was! You can't believe some of the cars he raced and beat with that telephone box on wheels!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Minis driven expertly would, and still can, beat Corvettes on certain tight and twisty racetracks...they were giant killers in the corners.

    The engine was a 1275 cc UHC (Underhead cam :) ) with hotted up components...the "S" version was the production hot car and then racers, of course, went further with it.

    You can still find an excellent Mini Cooper in the $8-10,000 range, and you could hardly have more fun for the dollar.
  • C13C13 Member Posts: 390
    Yesterday I walked out on the front porch with a coffee cup, very firstthing in the morning, to check out the weather. That very second a red, clean early 70's 365GTC roared by. Not something you see every day out this way, especially at about 6AM on a weekday. You could almost think that you dreamt it.

    I always like to think that such rare sightings are omens, but for what, I haven't been able to determine.

    many hours later on the way home I stopped in at a local shop for old Brit cars. They had tarps over all the interesting projects. I looked under one and found a Lotus 7, Series 1; just a naked chassis with wheels and tires.

    Marveled for awhile at the structure. Amazingly flimsy-looking, though it must have had a great strength to weight ratio in its day - maybe still. Being a Series 1, you could almost sense Chapman's presence, sketching out the suspension geometry and weight distribution and all. Maybe in those early days he even did his own engineering drawings.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    The Lotus Seven is certainly the real purist's definition of a "sports car"....light, fast, no frills whatsoever, barely civilized in fact.
  • C13C13 Member Posts: 390
    I was surprised at how much the Series 1 chassis looked like lawn furniture. I expected tubes at least the diameter of a bicycle frame, and with no curved lines. Granted, the curved parts were in non-essential areas, like to support the roof and stuff. The square tubing seemed no more than 5/8" O.D.

    Of course Chapman's middle name was (Bruce - no seriously) LIGHT, even to the point of fragility.

    It looked like the airframe of an ultralight aircraft, only a different shape.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yeah, Lotus broke a lot, but they won a lot of races, too. In a sense, they were the perfect race car, in that they had just enough in them to cross the finish line, and nothing left over.
  • jeijei Member Posts: 143
    From the 50's to early 70's in Canada, we had Pontiacs with Chevy chassis and drive trains. Trim lines corresponded to Chevrolet models. Top to bottom:
    Parisienne = Impala [also similar to US Catalina]
    Laurentian = Bel Air
    Strato Chief = Biscayne
    In the mid 60's, these "Narrow Track" Pontiacs had base 230 cu. in. straight sixes and 3-on-the-tree standard transmissions. Two speed powerglide automatic transmissions were the next step up for the 283 & 327 V8s. 409s, 427s and the like got a 3-speed relative of the Hydramatic, yet were still avaiable with 3-speed and 4-speed manual transmissions.
  • mimeliomimelio Member Posts: 6
    I remember a strange German import in the 1960's that would be able to be driven in the into the water.It had propellers on the back by the tail pipe and rubber seals at the doors.A person in Hinkley NY used to take his Amphi into the lake regularly.I understand very few were made.Oh yes the car was under powered top speed 60 MPH on land and 5 Knots water
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yes, outrageous car...powered by a Triumph Herald engine (the theory is that the German engine manufacturers did not want the bad publicity from shipwrecks, but I think it was just that Triumph was desperate for business and cut the German manufacturer a sweetheart deal. The "brain" behind this car was one Hans Trippel, who somehow convinced the German government to invest 10 million dollars in developing this car (shades of Delorean?) Anyway, Hans convinced the government that there was a huge export market for this car.
    Hans of course, was dead wrong, but he did manage to manufacture 3,500 of the cars, so they are not really rare, espcially in the US, where just about all of them were sent when new. You can still order parts right here in California.

    The idea of choosing a British engine rather than a German one, and a steel body rather than a fiberglass one, to navigate the seas, sort of boggles the mind. Oh, well.
  • ralph124cralph124c Member Posts: 36
    Mr. Shiftright:
    Can you supply me with a few details about the BRICKLIN? I believe it was mfg. in Canada, and used an AMC V-8 engine. One of its unusual features was gullwing doors.
    Anyway, I believe the Canadian govt. took a real bath on the venture. Are Bricklins worth anything today?
  • jeekayjeekay Member Posts: 5
    Does anyone remember a Honda model that was around before the first Civics and was even smaller and sort of shaped like a boot? I think it had roundish rear windows. It must've been a two-seater and I recall seeing them still on the road up until the early eighties. Can anyone shed some light on this vague memory?
  • C13C13 Member Posts: 390
    Bricklins were *never* worth anything.

    Honda's biggest (car) sales success here before the Civic was the 600.

    When they were current, TR3's were known by their owners as TR-Goddam!-3's.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    The Bricklin, also called the SV-1, was made in 1974-75 and came with, yes, an AMC or later a Ford V-8 engine. The original concept was for a strong, safe, sports car, and in this regard the Bricklin had a lot more integrity than say the Delorean, to which there are an amazing number of parallels. Both were gullwinged sportscars fueled by one man's vision or craziness as the case may be, and funded by a government who wanted jobs for workers---in Bricklin's case Canada, and in Delorean's case Ireland; both companies went bankrupt and the governments both ended up holding the bag--both cars were badly flawed in design and rough in execution, and reliability problems killed them in the marketplace, along with less than promised performance.

    And both are not easy to sell to anyone today.

    The Honda 600 was a micro-car with a motorcycle engine...this was a coupe version of an earlier roadster called the S500...I owned one of the coupes, and it could really scoot for such a little thing...the last version, the 791 cc S800 coupe or roadster (rather rarer than the 600 coupe) had 70 hp and could almost reach 100 mph...these little cars were made from 1962-71. Detroit automakers laughed at them until the Civic came out in 1973 and then Detroit stopped laughing as their market share started plummeting in the small car market. Anyway, I'd heartily recommend the 600 coupe to someone who knows how to work on motorcycles.

    The TR3s biggest drawback is really its crudity...mechanically, the engine is tractor derived, and if you have tape and wire and a pair of pliers, you can keep it running a long time.
  • ralph124cralph124c Member Posts: 36
    Mr. Shiftright: thanks for the info...how many Briclins were made? And, what would one expect to par for one today?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Hi Ralph,

    Roughly 2,800 total, and you should be able to find a really nice one for around $9,000, which is a real selling price in today's market.
  • C13C13 Member Posts: 390
    $9000 for a Bricklin? What would constitute a 'really nice one'?

    And Shiftright cautions me against clean, early-80's Audis for less than $2K.

    Ralph, do some homework before you put any money into this dog. For $9K you can get some pretty nice machinery.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well, I wouldn't give $9K for one, but apparently people do, because that's what all the market reports indicate....again, it's supply and demand that dictates price as you know. Problem is, it'll be $9K forever at best, so one does have to be careful to buy a very nice one and not put much into it.
  • crosley4crosley4 Member Posts: 295
    I own a 1961 Morris Minor 1000, 2 door. It's a runner driver. I drive it to work a couple times a month 60+ miles round trip.

    Also own a 1961 Bugeye Sprite. It had been hacked to fit a ford 302 and auto into it.

    Any one familar with Crosley Automobiles?

    I own 4 Crosleys for some reason. Only one is a runner driver at this time. Crosleys make you appreciate any more modern cars.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well, at least you have a taste for fun cars...too bad the Bugeye got hacked up, it's really the most valuable of the three you mentioned and most worthy of preservation...but that's the way it goes.

    Crosley was ahead of his time...unfortunately, too far ahead, and the car had its problems besides. But the concept of a small, light, economical car with overhead cam engine and disk brakes back in the 1940s was visionary...problem was America didn't want or need cars like that back then.

    Did you know Crosley raced at Le Mans, and was doing quite well in its class (Index of Performance) when alas the French generator they had installed fell over and died on them.

    I had two Morris Minors...they were fun, but pretty fragile for american roads...you need to baby them. Cute however. Ladies love 'em.
  • gkelly3gkelly3 Member Posts: 38
    I saw a nicely preserved TRIUMPH STAG last weekend...I seem to recall that this car never sold very well in the USA. If memory serves me, it had a straight-6 engine with a really weird feature (the water pump was gear driven).
    Anyway, are there any still around?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    No, the Stag was a V-8, but not the Buick/Rover V-8 common at the time (unfortunately). Imported from 1971-73 into America, (6,780 units in US total) they were a compelte flop in the marketplace and suffered from quirky styling and some serious mechanical problems. The cars overheated rapidly, bent cylinder heads and ate them for breakfast, and to top it off, no one could fix the car (even today you'd have to bribe someone to work on one). The car wasn't any one car--not a sports car, not a high performance GT, not a sedan, not a convertible. All it did was confuse people. Some people today like them enough to fix most of the defects, but the supply well exceeds demand, especially in the US. It is a car that would sell much, much better in England. A "minor collectible" at best, it could be had in great condition for around $6,500, if you can tolerate the shortcomings and general lack of interest from the collector car community.

    To give you an idea, fully 50% of all Stags in the U.S. had major engine work done under warranty! To this day, it's a problem that will haunt the owner--most avoid it by frequent torquing of the head bolts, replacing the timing chain every 25,000 miles and stopping immediately at the first sign of overheating.

    You'd have to love one to own one, IMO, but some people do, some people do.
  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    The Stag always seemed to me like an upmarket Spitfire, with an agricultural engine. Putting in a Ford V6 or a Rover V8 is fairly common in the UK.

    I don't know about the Stag, but the gear driven water pump was quite common on some of the smaller Triumph engines. The impeller was set in a housing that was machined into the block and driven from the camshaft. It would often be impossible to remove it without destroying it.
  • stutzturinstutzturin Member Posts: 1
    Hello Mr.Shift and Everyone Else:

    I'm a longtime fan of the Virgil Exner-designed Stutz, yes the cars owned by Elvis Presley, Lucille Ball, Sammy Davis, Jr. and many other stars.

    I'm quite familiar with the car's construction (new GM engine/driveline) with bodies/interiors hand-fabricated in by Saturn Carrosserie in Turin Italy. These were beyond extravagant - thick hand-beaten still bodies, full Connolly leather and gold throughout their bespoke interiors. The models included Blackhawk (2-door), IV Porte (4 door sedan), Victoria (LWB Sedan), Diplomatic (SWB Limo), Royale (LWB Limo), and Bearcat I (convertible) and Bearcat II (convertible with redesigned carbon-fibre body 87-88).

    My question is: What are these cars worth? New, many sold for between $75,000 up to $325,000 for the Limo. There doesn't seem to be much interest in them, but I'm still intrigued. Any ideas on how many were made? Any stories on sightings? Thanks for your help, BB III
  • C13C13 Member Posts: 390
    How did such a drip as Exner ever obtain the use of the name 'Stutz'? The heirs to the title musta been hurtin financially, or had no respect for the fine work of their forebears.

    The original Stutzes were serious machines, designed and built by real humans. The ersatz Stutz is about as much of a car as Elvis was a rocknroller.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Oh, don't go there......Elvis discussions are hereby banned by the man behind the curtain...Oz has spoken.....

    But Elvis notwithstanding, I do think C13 has a point, perhaps a bit bluntly applied :) regarding having some respect for the more sacred names in automotive history....reminds me of what Studebaker did to Packard in 1958, sticking the name on a rather clumsily designed Studebaker Hawk.

    I think the people designing the modern "Stutz" just lost their way, big time, but for all I know they may have had the very best intentions.

    At least Glenn Pray respected the Cord name by producing a replicar in 8/10th scale with front wheel drive (Corvair turbo)...it looked quite nice at 8/10ths and was technically interesting, albeit a fake nonetheless.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Oh, and the new Bugatti was magnificent! Ettore would have been proud...it was bold,wild,fast & intricate, and lost bundles of money besides, all the things he knew best.
  • C13C13 Member Posts: 390
    There was a replica of the Duesenberg SJ a few decades ago that R&T thought was an excellent replica. Wasn't cheap.

    I once had a buddy whose family had a serious car collection. He had driven some of the great old cars, Duesenbergs and all that. I asked him, all wide-eyed and awe-struck, how the old cars drove and he said "Like trucks." Kind of took some of the wind outta my sails.

    But the (real) Stutz Bearcat in its day musta been like a McLaren F1 is today.

    PS
    My original point, about the Stutz family giving up the noble name is serious. I wonder what the story is. Maybe there are no heirs. Maybe the name's in the public domain.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I think the name was probably sold. I recall when a company making motor homes called them Pierce-Arrow, and they were forced legally to change it to Pace Arrow, so I think the old names are generally still protected. I know the Bugatti name had to be bought as well.

    What was impressive about a Deusenberg, aside from the incredible craftsmanship, was that a car that size and weight could be hurtled down the road that fast, especially for a 1920s-30s car. They may be like trucks at low speed, but I was a passenger in one at speed some years ago (driving back from an SF Auto Show) and the driver/owner told me it was quite nice at 60-70 mph...but the gearshifting seemed tricky. These are HUGE cars that can keep up easily with modern traffic, and gee, this was 70 years ago!
  • C13C13 Member Posts: 390
    I don't doubt it a bit. My buddy was a bit spoiled, and he was also young.

    My impression is that the great old cars could easily cruise at high speeds. Just in cornering and breaking they've long since been surpassed by modern technology. Imagine sliding those old beauties around the Targa Florio and Mille Miglia on skinny tires.

    I remember an early James Bond short story where 007 drove a pre-RR (maybe Blower) Bentley as his road car. He had a mechanic that kept it in mint condition so that it could still do 100 when he wanted it to. Quite different from the modern hi-tech Bonds.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    This is why they called the old racing days the "Age of the Iron Men".

    Among the real Bentley lovers, it is said that the company went downhill the minute Rolls bought them in ...1931 or so...it went from a sports car to a cushy tourer.
  • C13C13 Member Posts: 390
    Bentley sure came back though.

    And where is RR now? Like a Checker Marathon with a lot of leather and walnut. Hard to imagine where the company can go from here.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I guess BMW will pump money into it until it either makes it or breaks it. Same with Bentley. Both are, I believe, money-losing propositions at the moment, but both are becoming much better cars. What they need is to lower the utterly ridiculous prices.
  • C13C13 Member Posts: 390
    Ya think? I dunno.

    Maybe the target demographic would lose interest if the cars were merely 'expensive', as opposed to 'utterly ridiculous'. There are some people for whom the most important criterion is that nobody else but they and a few kings can afford one.

    This seems to me a really tough time for a company like RR. For sporty cars the mission is more clearly defined: You have to produce tangible results, i.e., make it fast. But luxury can be defined in any number of ways. Is performance itself a true luxury, or is it a concession to modern life? To some, real luxury is more like sitting on a comfortable couch in an invulnerable cocoon, being driven by a professional chauffeur.

    In fact, the luxurious nature of cars like RR was compromised at least as early as the 60's when they followed the rest of the world in becoming lower, shorter, less extravagant.

    Maybe the best course for RR would be to return to a 50s-ish body style, but in carbon fiber and with active suspension; as long and as tall as a damned Bugatti Royale but with twice the power and half the weight. Maybe design a new V12, based on the BMW, but with electromechanical valve actuation; supercharged if necessary; built in England. Maybe call it a 'Merlin II'.

    The problem for RR is that technology has democratized the auto industry. Lots of much cheaper cars offer some of the benefits that used to be the sole domain of the top few manufacturers.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I think the RR snob appeal is gone...stolen by Mercedes now and forever, aided by Rolls incompetence these last 30 years or so. Rich people don't mind spending money, but they don't want to look like fools, either (although some can't help it). Why on earth buy a $200,000 car, when an $80,000 can do everything so much better and more reliably?

    If you're going to charge a huge some of money for something, it had better do something extraordinary...you can't be mediocre in that market, seems to me.
  • C13C13 Member Posts: 390
    MB snob appeal should logocally be waning now too then, as so many less expensive cars keep trouncing them in every area that was once their private purview.

    For people with more money than they know how to spend, there aren't *enough* high-end car companies. Old marques like Bugatti, Bentley and Maserati have to keep being rejuvenated to provide sheiks with cars to drive and magazines with the usual "Fastest Cars in the World" articles.

    RR's ripe for re-imaging. If Bentley, Jag and Aston can do it, I don't see why RR can't.

    Also...
    Though rich people don't want to look like fools, explain the popularity of the 600SL.
This discussion has been closed.