We are aware of the login problems affecting the forums, and appreciate your patience as we work on a fix.
Did you recently purchase a new Tesla, Rivian or Lucid vehicle directly from the manufacturer and willing to share how your experience compared to previous vehicle purchases made through a traditional dealer? A reporter would like to speak with you; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 2/19 for details.

Classic Cars as daily drivers

16791112

Comments

  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    Here's evidence that aliens had also infiltrated the design studios of the British car industry about that time...


    http://www.cadvision.com/ringhamm/mark%205.htm

    Even the French, usually resistant to outside influences, were not immune...

    http://www.clydenc.org/newwave/cars/dauphine/front1.jpg

  • sebringjxisebringjxi Member Posts: 140
    The Diamler Sp 250 has to be one of the ugliest cars ever built. I've had the opportunity to see a couple up close and personal (even drove one around the block) and I have to admit, it's even uglier in person than in the pics. Where did that design come from ???? It reminds me of a Mississippi River catfish with 2 tails and a passenger compartment!

    The Renault??? What can you say, it's French!

    LOL!

    Hal
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    So many cars, so few acetylene torches....
  • bhill2bhill2 Member Posts: 2,546
    I would like to get a read from you posters. It is my opinion that unlike with most cars of the time, the '59 (or '60) 4-door hardtop, especially in Impala trim, is the best-looking (least-ugly) version of that year's Chevy. The 4-door sedan in any trim level, of course, would buckle the knees of a warthog.

    2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,920
    ...didn't all the GM 4-door hardtops have that funky wraparound rear window? I'd say the best looking GM cars from '59 are the Pontiac and the Oldsmobile. The Caddy and Buick are just too chromey and gaudy, and the Chevy is just too "out there" with its bat-fins.

    I think the best looking domestic cars from '59 are the DeSoto (I know, I'm probably too predictable ;-), Mercury, Pontiac, Olds, and Chrysler (not in any particular order). The '59 Ford's not too bad either, but kinda blocky and bulky looking. While the Merc's every bit as bulky, it at least looks better-proportioned thanks to its longer length.
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    I like the four-door hardtops with the wraparound window and the way the roof forms a kind of awning over it. Very sleek. Someone was thinking there.

    Yes, the sedans are "below horrible" as Smokey would say.

    The Ford is a very conservative design--maybe that's a blessing, considering the "advanced thinking" going on at the time.
  • rea98drea98d Member Posts: 982
    All I can say is thank the Lord Jaguar bought Daimler and did away with that kind of styling. I'll take a badge engineered Mark II or XJ12 any day over that. Wait, I'd take a Mark II or XJ12 over just about anything anyway. Daimler didn't loose much when it became an overdressed Jagaur, at least in the styling department.
  • jrosasmcjrosasmc Member Posts: 1,711
    There was an interesting car being offered for sale today by my local police department. It was their last remaining '91 Caprice sedan, and it was really good-looking; I'm not joking. Seriously, this one was in excellent condition for a cop car. Driven by a former police chief who's now passed on, the Caprice only has 39k original miles and has a 350 in it. It was used only by him when it was purchased in late 1990, and why the department stored it long after he died is beyond me. Any idea on how much this car is worth, and should I go for it?
  • amazonamazon Member Posts: 293
    It would make a cool carpool car!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Unless they let you keep the equipment and signage (doubtful), it's not worth very much. Go look up wholesale book and then drop down maybe to 50% of that. Low ball it to death. "Former cop car" is a dirty word in terms of value, as these cars have often had a hard life, low mileage not withstanding. This doesn't mean, of course, that they won't give good service as a used car--just don't treat it like a normal used car in terms of value.
  • rea98drea98d Member Posts: 982
    My cousin's ex-husband buys Crown Vic cop cars at auction and resells them. He got one once that still had the red & blue lights behind the grille. I guess someone forgot to take them out. Anyway, some drinking buddies of his were having a pretty rowdy party, so he drives this Crown Vic up to the front window of the house and hits the red & blue lights. Those guys probably set a world record running from the place!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Oh, man, if the cops ever catch you screwing around in an ex cop car, the judge will throw the book at you.

    My friend owned one, with all original equipment on it, rented as a movie car (I have a picture of me dressed as SFPD, pretty funny, I'll post it sometime), and she couldn't even let the wheels TOUCH the ground on public streets. It had to be trailered everywhere. Once she did drive it, as the trailer broke down, and even with "MOVIE CAR" written all over it she was stopped, the car was impounded, and she was fined. Being an older cop car, it stuck out like a sore thumb.

    Another funny thing, being a Marin cop car, it had a little sticker on the back cage that said "Thank you for not smoking".

    Last thing, and this kind of weird but I'll just put it out there. Every ex-cop car I was ever in had weird vibes--maybe all the bizarre stuff that went on in there, I dunno. Just a creepy feeling, like in a jail cell if you've even been.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Once, a buddy somehow got ahold of a siren from an old cop car. He mounted it under the hood of his '56 Chevy. It was the old fashioned, mechanical kind that weighed probably 30 pounds.

    Once in awhile, he would switch it on. MAN, was it loud!! Of course, all of the cars would pull to the side.

    And, then, he got busted for it by a REAL cop.

    I don't remember now what they did to him but it wasn't good. I do remember he had to give them the siren.
  • rea98drea98d Member Posts: 982
    "Oh, man, if the cops ever catch you screwing around in an ex cop car, the judge will throw the book at you. "

    Well, Syl never let piddly little details like legality ever stop him from having fun ;-) Seriously, I have no doubt they could throw the book at him, but he had a good time scaring the living daylights out of his friends.

    I would think that you could tape over all the lights and signs and drive it on the street. Maybe hang a big sign on it saying "NOT IN SERVICE" or something like that. I guess not, though.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    In theory you can do that but the problem is that it still looks like a cop car with that rack on top at all. I've driven them on the street for short distances with the signage blocked off, but I'm nervous about it. You just stick out like a sore thumb and every cop wants to "talk" to you.
  • rea98drea98d Member Posts: 982
    I wonder if they'd be so picky if it was a '50's Buick restored to look like Broderick Crawford's? I haven't seen many cops cruising around in classic cars lately.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 52,316
    Up the road from me is a guy with 2 identical 50's something cop cars (single ball on roof, b/w paint). Not sure what is written on them, if anything. I do see them moved from time to time, and even saw one parked outside the police station one day

    Related, when I was a kid, my father was a fire chief (volunteer), and had a roof rack on the family Volvo 144 (now, that was a sight). My older sister was in high school at the time, and supposedly broke up a party one night with the lights/siren. My father would have killed her if he found out at the time.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,920
    ...that if the car is 1965 or older, you're permitted to keep lights, sirens, etc on it. I think I read that in something that the Professional Car Society put out, which caters towards the antique police car/hearse/ambulance crowd.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Oh, you can keep the gear on it but you can't use it and you have to follow local police rules regarding street use. I'd imagine if you knew the cops and told them where you were going they might let you drive around a bit, to a parade or some such. You just can't go out for pleasure rides because lights and sirens are only for legit emergency vehicles.
  • badgerpaulbadgerpaul Member Posts: 219
    I recall reading an article on one of those actual '55 Buick Centurys that someone restored back to its original state. He had to have a sign in the window that said it was "out of service" to which somebody added "since 1955". I think he also had a letter from the head of the California Highway Patrol too.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yes, my friend had a letter also, specifying that this was a "movie and TV" car. Which is why she had trouble explaining why she was at a warehouse party flashing the lights while racing down an alley.
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    Maybe she was trying to get into character?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    She also had a Checker cab. Now that was a really awful car to drive. What a way to make a living.
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    I have some friends who regularly drive cross country in a '60s Checker, the civilian version sold through Rambler IIRC. They could buy and sell both of us all day long and that's the newest car they have.
  • jrosasmcjrosasmc Member Posts: 1,711
    That really must stink to have a Checker as your newest car. It's just like Irv driving that Volvo as his only car. Heck, I don't know of anybody who'd use a P1800 as their only car. It'd probably get on your nerves from day to day!
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,920
    I don't know why, exactly, but I always thought they were kinda neat. I've heard that they have a stationary front seat though, to maximize room for the passengers in back, so they're not a good car for a taller driver. Any truth to that?
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    Don't know. A '60s Checker is pretty crude even by '60s standards. I think the car was developed in the '50s and it shows.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,920
    ...was the first year of the Checker as we know it. Here's a pic I found of a '56...

    http://www.checkercabs.org/pics/1950/1956_A8_fay1.jpg


    I guess it was '59 or '60 that they finally got around to grafting on the simpler lattice grille and quad headlights that make it more recognizable as a Checker. I think '60 was also the first year it was available for sale to the general public...prior to that they were only available for purchase by taxi companies.


    Oh yeah, in 1960, they came standard with an 80 hp engine. 122 hp optional. Around the same time, most full-size Fords, Chevies, and Plymouths were getting about 135-145 hp out of their base 6-cyl engines.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I had a Checker and it was kinda fun but a) a real back-breaker to drive b) clumsy as your mom's sofa on the highway.

    I like to describe cars like this as having "pre-human erognomics", more comfortable for lesser primates to drive. If I had really long chimp-like arms, and could easily jump on the front set with my hind legs while driving, and be able to screech to pass the time, I might have enjoyed the car more.

    Mine had a really peculiar engine. It was a flathead six that had obviously had an ohv head bolted onto it due to a later redesign.

    Sometime in the late 60s I guess they went to all Chevrolet power (Chevy 230-6 or 283-V8). That was okay but I missed the 300 rpm idle speed of the old wood stove Six, which I think was a Continental engine.

    In a sense Checker was the last of a long, long American tradition of "the assembled car", meaning a car that was built by buying parts from other well known manufacturers, from engine to brakes to radiator, etc.

    Many of the old marques you read about were in fact assembled cars, using Continental or Lycoming power and any variety of transmissions and differentials.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,920
    ...like an AMC! Chevy or Pontiac engine mated to a Chrylser transmission (I know there's some Ford content thrown in there somewhere, but forget where), along with some parts that were still left over from the old Nash/Hudson days!

    So Shifty, do you remember if the front seat had any fore/aft travel?
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    AMC had their own engines but aside from that they might have been close to an assembled car. Weren't virtually all their mechanicals off-the-shelf stuff?

    My friend's Checker has the 283. He's converted the three speed to a floor shift with what looks like UPS truck hardware.

    I remember being in a Rambler showroom in 1966 (very formal and hushed and the salesmen dressed like undertakers) and seeing a Checker limo. My father said they didn't seem interested in selling him a car. Maybe he had to be introduced.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,920
    ...didn't get forced upon AMC until the early '80's. Actually, I don't think they went into any of the AMC cars that were left by that time, but they did go into Jeeps like the Commanche and small Cherokee, until Jeep finally got that higher-powered 4.0 inline-6.
  • jrosasmcjrosasmc Member Posts: 1,711
    And that 4.0 inline-six is still seeing service in today's Grand Cherokees.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I remember the front seat didn't have a lot of travel and was also incredibly uncomfortable to sit on. The back was straight up (this was a bench seat of course), the padding was very spongy and the rake of the seat was all wrong. I actually drove that car across the entire country but I really took my time. It had overdrive which was very helpful and of course you could have easily pitched a small tent in the back seat.
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    Yeah as I recall the front seat could have been taken from a bus.
  • rea98drea98d Member Posts: 982
    Who is Irv, the Volvo driver?
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    The first time I saw Irv was on the Paar show. This would have been around 1962. He'd been playing small clubs for years and was finally starting to get some recognition.
  • jrosasmcjrosasmc Member Posts: 1,711
    Are you talking about Irv Gordon, the million-mile Volvo man? I never knew of any musical gigs that he did. He was a middle school science teacher in Brooklyn for over 30 years; at least that's what I've read and seen.
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    Note to self: must be careful to always use my super powers for good.
  • avalanche325avalanche325 Member Posts: 116
    Weren't the A/C units the Ford component?
  • carnut4carnut4 Member Posts: 574
    the topic of "Less horsepower than advertised" came up-some guy POed because his new Hyundai only had 170 instead of the advertised 183 or whatever.
    This raised some questions in my mind, and since they're all about old cars, thought I'd bring them up here. Also, trying to keep this forum going! Where is everyone?
    Anyway-Speedshift-you posted some interesting figures about actual/net horespower of a bunch of old engines over in that topic. I was wondering if you, or anyone else, might have that info about all the Chevy 283 engines of the 57-59 years.
    For example, there was a 283 4barrel motor rated 220-later upgraded to 230. There were two 2x4barrel engines-one 245, the other 270 with solid lifters. Then there were two fuelly motors-one 250, one 283 with solid lifters. In 1960, that 283 horse fuelly motor was bumped clear to 315 HP. Always wondered how close that jump was to actual, and how close the others were to actual.
    Also, the 348 came in a 250horse rating from 58-61. In 1962, it was replaced by the 250 horse 327. How did these two compare in actual output? Speedshift? Anybody?
  • jsylvesterjsylvester Member Posts: 572
    I always thought it was kind of confusing in the number of engine options offered in just one model year. I'll stick to 67 Fords, as that is what I know best - they offered twelve different V-8's that year - ranging from 200 horsepower 2 barrel 289 to 657 horsepower in the 427 SOHC, though only over the counter, and have to sell your first born to buy it.

    I realize some was marketing, as the Thunderbird had to have it's own engines.

    The nice thing is now that most of these cars are not daily drivers, one can choose to build for horsepower over drivability today, so fairly easy to increase.
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    1960 Ford 352/360-hp Special, Ford's first hi-perf FE: about 270 net hp.

    '61 Chevy 409/360 (first year, single AFB four barrel): about 290 net.

    '55 Corvette 265/195 single WCFB 4 barrel with first Duntov cam: about 170 net. Not the Power Pack 265 available in sedans.

    '56 Corvette 265/225 dual WCFB four barrels: 210 net. Also not available in sedans but probably the basis for the '57 283/245 (standard hydro cam) and 283/270 Duntov cam.

    '57 283/283-290 fuelie with second ("early Duntov") cam: about 240 net.

    '61 283/315 as above but with bigger ports and valves: about 280 net.

    '65 327/375 fuelie with late Duntov: about 300 net. This engine was also available with a Holley (360 hp?).

    '55 T-Bird 292/198 standard engine with Ford-O: 150 net.

    '56 T-Bird 312/225 standard Ford-O engine: 190 net hp. Also showed up in lots of Fairlanes.

    '57 T-Bird supercharged F(?) engine 312/300: 250 net.

    Note how close most of the small blocks are to their advertised rating. That's why early Chevies were seriously quick.
  • carnut4carnut4 Member Posts: 574
    how the Chev 348/250 and the 327/250 compared in actual output?
    Thanks speedshift for your numbers info.
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    My source doesn't have that info. My guess, having owned a 348/250, is that it wasn't putting out anywhere near 250 net.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,920
    ...anybody know about what my '57 DeSoto would put out in net hp? It's a 341 2bbl, with dual exhaust. I think the compression ratio is 9.25:1. It's listed at 270 hp gross. I always guessed around 200 net.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    A 250 hp 327 would easily whip a 348 with the same H.P.

    Still, the 348 was a tough, rugged engine that was no slouch in it's time.
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    I think there were 348s and there were 348s.

    The problem with the 250, aside from being a boat anchor, is that it used a WCFB four barrel (the first four barrel, along with the first Holley 4150 IIRC) about as big as your fist.

    The hi-perf 348s used either an AFB or three Rochester two barrels. They also used some very aggressive sold lifter cams that got hotter every year. Compression ratios were around 11:1. And from what I can tell they had better heads and exhaust manifolds.
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    Don't know about your car's engine but I do have some times for a '57 Dodge D-500 with the Dodge 325/310 hemi (there was also a D-500 that year that had the '56 Chrysler 300 engine):

    0-60 8.3 seconds
    1/4-mile 15.8 @ 88 mph

    Not bad for a car that probably weighed close to 4000 lbs. depending on how it was optioned.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    The 348 was a truck engine, but so was (in origins anyway) the Viper engine. I think it was a good block but not well-developed and it was never a popular engine in its day. Chevy lovers shunned it and it was soon out of the line up. Possibly part of the problem was that it debuted in the somewhat clunky-looking (or so people thought at the time) '58 Chevrolet.. So there were two problems in one right there for Chevrolet.
Sign In or Register to comment.